Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
In reply to Robert Lynn's message of Wed, 1 Feb 2012 11:56:00 +: Hi, [snip] I believe Rossi operates at about 25bar (350psi). Doesn't his patent app. say 2-20 bar? If so then one could probably get something to work (for demonstration purposes) near the lower end of the scale. It may not be as efficient, but you aren't trying to out compete him, just to see if it works at all. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot -- BIG V
Engineer wrote: And I know you read the big V; so, did you figure it out before you read it? DefkalionGT: We respect big V and its role/commitment in CF/LENR for so many years.
Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot -- BIG V
On Thu, Feb 2, 2012 at 4:07 PM, Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: Engineer wrote: And I know you read the big V; so, did you figure it out before you read it? DefkalionGT: We respect big V and its role/commitment in CF/LENR for so many years. Yeah, that was the Arrg! Go on! reference to argon. And I really do have a FSM emblem on my car and celebrate Talk like a pirate day. :) T
RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
Peter, How about this cheap heating element. Fits inside a 1/4 copper tube perfectly. http://www.ebay.com/itm/350505999493?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm570.l1313%26_nkw%3D350505999493%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1_rdc=1 Jojo
RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
JoJo Thankyou for helping , it might just do the trick I have a young electrical engineer helping me out once a week , he is concerned the element it self may not handle the pressures building up in the chamber In our intended experiments we are going to do 2 main types 1. Phen\Chan way 2.Rossi way Phen doesnt heat the chamber while the H is at 2000psi But Rossi seems to do this The engineer seems to think by heating the chamber to 400 C increases the PSI x 3 (approx) Which means the pressures would be around 6000 psi He questions if most elements could handle this type of pressures Question : Do you think Rossi heats the chamber while the H is pressuised at 2000 psi Thanks Pete From: jth...@hotmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 16:27:03 +0800 Peter, How about this cheap heating element. Fits inside a 1/4 copper tube perfectly. http://www.ebay.com/itm/350505999493?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm570.l1313%26_nkw%3D350505999493%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1_rdc=1 Jojo
Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
Pete, you're welcome. I'm using this same heating element in my disposable reactor. I'm attempting replication of Rossi, not Phen\Chan which I think may be a red herring. Something just does not smell right to me about Chan\Phen's method. I suspect Chan\Phen may have ignited the propane in his tube and initiated a low-grade chemical burning of his mineral oil bath. Using Mineral Oil as coolant and propane as Inert gas just does not seem right to me. Anyways, I calculated that I load the reactor at 30C (room temp) or around 300K and at 300-360 psi (Rossi's initial H pressure). Heating the reactor to 700K (423C - Focardi's Ideal temp) would bring the H pressure to around 700 psi according to the Ideal Gas Law formula. I don't think 700 psi is that difficult to handle in a reactor. My initial attempt will be to use a copper tube rated to 2240 psi @ 72F. Derating charts I found said to derate the psi rating when temp increases. So I suspect, my copper tube should handle 700psi @ 423C. If not, I'll upgrade to a stainless steel tube, which will do 2000psi @350F. These are official safety ratings, so the actual burst rating would be about 3-5 times higher. I intend to place the reactor in a blast chamber (8 concrete walls) and monitor using Wireless IP camera. At 700 psi reactor target pressure, this heating element should work. BTW, did you notice that the same seller lists other similar heating element of various sizes? Go to his store, he has other sizes. Jojo - Original Message - From: Peter B To: Vortex Ron Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 5:52 PM Subject: RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot JoJo Thankyou for helping , it might just do the trick I have a young electrical engineer helping me out once a week , he is concerned the element it self may not handle the pressures building up in the chamber In our intended experiments we are going to do 2 main types 1. Phen\Chan way 2.Rossi way Phen doesnt heat the chamber while the H is at 2000psi But Rossi seems to do this The engineer seems to think by heating the chamber to 400 C increases the PSI x 3 (approx) Which means the pressures would be around 6000 psi He questions if most elements could handle this type of pressures Question : Do you think Rossi heats the chamber while the H is pressuised at 2000 psi Thanks Pete -- From: jth...@hotmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 16:27:03 +0800 Peter, How about this cheap heating element. Fits inside a 1/4 copper tube perfectly. http://www.ebay.com/itm/350505999493?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm570.l1313%26_nkw%3D350505999493%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1_rdc=1 Jojo
Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
2000-6000psi hydrogen is pretty dangerous, be very careful about your design and setup, make sure all your valves seals and fittings are able to withstand those pressures, keep those valves, seals and fittings away from high temperatures, and try to keep reactor vessel volume small. I believe Rossi operates at about 25bar (350psi). But that might just be the cold loading pressure. I am not sure if he used a pressure regulator on his reactor to limit the pressure. He probably did for the 1MW container, but maybe not for some of his smaller demos (where I seem to remember that he disconnected the hydrogen supply during the test). Remember that (hopefully) a lot of the hydrogen is loaded into the nickel, so the reactor pressure might not rise as much as you think - it might even drop. However for safety it is a good idea to disconnect the hydrogen supply during the test and design assuming 3-4 times the loading pressure. Your heating element does not need to be in the reactor - just put it inside a tube that penetrates through the middle of the reactor. The heater element heats the tube and the tube heats the reactor without requiring any high pressure-electrical feedthroughs. You can measure reactor temperature the same way, with a thermocouple in a tube. This is a standard industrial technique, though it is slower to respond than having the thermocouple exposed directly to the hydrogen in the reactor. There are lots of easy ways to make a heating element, but easiest is buying ceramic rod type cartridge heaters used in soldering irons off-the shelf for $20, these should be able to operate red-hot (500°C) On 1 February 2012 09:52, Peter B ddc...@hotmail.com wrote: JoJo Thankyou for helping , it might just do the trick I have a young electrical engineer helping me out once a week , he is concerned the element it self may not handle the pressures building up in the chamber In our intended experiments we are going to do 2 main types 1. Phen\Chan way 2.Rossi way Phen doesnt heat the chamber while the H is at 2000psi But Rossi seems to do this The engineer seems to think by heating the chamber to 400 C increases the PSI x 3 (approx) Which means the pressures would be around 6000 psi He questions if most elements could handle this type of pressures *Question *: Do you think Rossi heats the chamber while the H is pressuised at 2000 psi Thanks Pete -- From: jth...@hotmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 16:27:03 +0800 Peter, How about this cheap heating element. Fits inside a 1/4 copper tube perfectly. http://www.ebay.com/itm/350505999493?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm570.l1313%26_nkw%3D350505999493%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1_rdc=1http://www.ebay.com/itm/350505999493?ru=http://www.ebay.com:80/sch/i.html?_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm570.l1313%26_nkw%3D350505999493%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1_rdc=1 Jojo
Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
be careful with the effect of hydrogen on any metal (make hydrides, make brittle, leaks and then self-ignite- H can burns a µg/min according to wikipedia, check airliquide.com for safety of H2...) maybe (I have no clue) H2 can transform the characteristics of a thermocouple, especially at high heat and pressure... Defkalion seems to use void and argon for their electronics , to protect from H. by the way, If you are not professional, be very very careful... this gas is traitor. 2012/2/1 Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com This is a standard industrial technique, though it is slower to respond than having the thermocouple exposed directly to the hydrogen in the reactor.
RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
This is bad practice ! (and it is not a small point). Often thermocouple is used generically. Thermocouples are NOT adequate for this kind of measurement, in the long term. They are cheaper but degrade too easily. For reliable measurement of hydrogen at higher temps - you should use RTDs. They are more expensive but can be exposed to almost anything and maintain accuracy. Typically RTDs are platinum on the exterior. See the Wiki entry. * * This is a standard industrial technique, though it is slower to respond than having the thermocouple exposed directly to the hydrogen in the reactor.
Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
I my previous job as a IC engine development engineer we used platinum RTDs (also called PRTs) for most water and air temperatures (200°C), but thermocouples for all exhaust temperatures (500°C) where errors of 1-2°C don't really matter. While platinum RTDs are best, they are several times the price of thermocouples, and in many cases will not be rated for operation at the higher (500°C +) temperatures that are of interest for these new NiH LENR reactors. Platinum RTDs are much more essential for accurate low temperature differential calorimetry that requires long term stability, but even then for shorter experiments a thermocouple can work OK as long as you calibrate them before or after the experiment. A cheap thermocouple with error of 1-2°C is OK for an amateur experiment measuring reactor temperatures that are in the range 4-700°C and where it is probably not worth using expensive RTDs to measure with high accuracy because other sources of error will likely be far greater than the thermocouple inaccuracy; in most cases the temperature will not be used for low temperature difference calorimetry and the temperature will vary throughout the reactor anyway. For a low cost high pressure and high temperature amateur experiment it is far better to spend money on making the reactor and hydrogen system safe than on high temperature RTDs. On 1 February 2012 15:05, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: This is bad practice ! (and it is not a small point). Often “thermocouple” is used generically. ** ** Thermocouples are NOT adequate for this kind of measurement, in the long term. They are cheaper but degrade too easily. ** ** For reliable measurement of hydrogen at higher temps - you should use RTDs. They are more expensive but can be exposed to almost anything and maintain accuracy. * * Typically RTDs are platinum on the exterior. See the Wiki entry. * * * * **Ø ** **Ø **This is a standard industrial technique, though it is slower to respond than having the thermocouple exposed directly to the hydrogen in the reactor. ** ** ** ** ** **
Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
Robert Lynn wrote: A cheap thermocouple with error of 1-2°C is OK for an amateur experiment measuring reactor temperatures that are in the range 4-700°C . . . Many professional HVAC engineers use K-Type thermocouples. They are not only for amateurs. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
Thanks Robert I appreciate you advice Im in no hurry and safety is my main concern . Overall I dont build anything . I get other proffesionals to build . I have a machinist who has worked with enourmous pressures and gasses . Our chamber will be very small , with several shut down features . Also enclosed in a half inch steel glove box . Hydrogen Bottle will be disconected and removed before all experiments so even if we find a extreme reaction , there shouldnt be a megga explosion . Im working on a 6000 psi release valve design , just in case Again thankyou Pete Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 11:56:00 + Subject: Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot From: robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 2000-6000psi hydrogen is pretty dangerous, be very careful about your design and setup, make sure all your valves seals and fittings are able to withstand those pressures, keep those valves, seals and fittings away from high temperatures, and try to keep reactor vessel volume small. I believe Rossi operates at about 25bar (350psi). But that might just be the cold loading pressure. I am not sure if he used a pressure regulator on his reactor to limit the pressure. He probably did for the 1MW container, but maybe not for some of his smaller demos (where I seem to remember that he disconnected the hydrogen supply during the test). Remember that (hopefully) a lot of the hydrogen is loaded into the nickel, so the reactor pressure might not rise as much as you think - it might even drop. However for safety it is a good idea to disconnect the hydrogen supply during the test and design assuming 3-4 times the loading pressure. Your heating element does not need to be in the reactor - just put it inside a tube that penetrates through the middle of the reactor. The heater element heats the tube and the tube heats the reactor without requiring any high pressure-electrical feedthroughs. You can measure reactor temperature the same way, with a thermocouple in a tube. This is a standard industrial technique, though it is slower to respond than having the thermocouple exposed directly to the hydrogen in the reactor. There are lots of easy ways to make a heating element, but easiest is buying ceramic rod type cartridge heaters used in soldering irons off-the shelf for $20, these should be able to operate red-hot (500°C) On 1 February 2012 09:52, Peter B ddc...@hotmail.com wrote: JoJo Thankyou for helping , it might just do the trick I have a young electrical engineer helping me out once a week , he is concerned the element it self may not handle the pressures building up in the chamber In our intended experiments we are going to do 2 main types 1. Phen\Chan way 2.Rossi way Phen doesnt heat the chamber while the H is at 2000psi But Rossi seems to do this The engineer seems to think by heating the chamber to 400 C increases the PSI x 3 (approx) Which means the pressures would be around 6000 psi He questions if most elements could handle this type of pressures Question : Do you think Rossi heats the chamber while the H is pressuised at 2000 psi Thanks Pete From: jth...@hotmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 16:27:03 +0800 Peter, How about this cheap heating element. Fits inside a 1/4 copper tube perfectly. http://www.ebay.com/itm/350505999493?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm570.l1313%26_nkw%3D350505999493%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1_rdc=1 Jojo
RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
Hi JoJo More information , thankyou . I have only been on Vortex a few months and I have gained much insight . There's a lot of smart people here with a wide range of views . Im starting to learn to appreciate the critisisims more as well . Its good to be challenged There are a few different industries that use 50 mm steel pipeing that handle over 6000 psi . You just have find a proffessional machinist thats worked with extremme pressures and heat , that understands whats needed in the area of seals and elements , especially if you continually want to re-open and seal it for different types of testing , which is what we intend to do . This is where it gets dangerous . I have a few ideas on this , once I am convinced in myself it will work , I will share . Safety and the ability to change over materials \catyalyst quicker than most , is my challenge. And yes I noticed that ebay seller has different lengths at different watts , should help for the future (if we ever find a reaction ) Thanks again Pete From: jth...@hotmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 18:45:07 +0800 Pete, you're welcome. I'm using this same heating element in my disposable reactor. I'm attempting replication of Rossi, not Phen\Chan which I think may be a red herring. Something just does not smell right to me about Chan\Phen's method. I suspect Chan\Phen may have ignited the propane in his tube and initiated a low-grade chemical burning of his mineral oil bath. Using Mineral Oil as coolant and propane as Inert gas just does not seem right to me. Anyways, I calculated that I load the reactor at 30C (room temp) or around 300K and at 300-360 psi (Rossi's initial H pressure). Heating the reactor to 700K (423C - Focardi's Ideal temp) would bring the H pressure to around 700 psi according to the Ideal Gas Law formula. I don't think 700 psi is that difficult to handle in a reactor. My initial attempt will be to use a copper tube rated to 2240 psi @ 72F. Derating charts I found said to derate the psi rating when temp increases. So I suspect, my copper tube should handle 700psi @ 423C. If not, I'll upgrade to a stainless steel tube, which will do 2000psi @350F. These are official safety ratings, so the actual burst rating would be about 3-5 times higher. I intend to place the reactor in a blast chamber (8 concrete walls) and monitor using Wireless IP camera. At 700 psi reactor target pressure, this heating element should work. BTW, did you notice that the same seller lists other similar heating element of various sizes? Go to his store, he has other sizes. Jojo - Original Message - From: Peter B To: Vortex Ron Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 5:52 PM Subject: RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot JoJo Thankyou for helping , it might just do the trick I have a young electrical engineer helping me out once a week , he is concerned the element it self may not handle the pressures building up in the chamber In our intended experiments we are going to do 2 main types 1. Phen\Chan way 2.Rossi way Phen doesnt heat the chamber while the H is at 2000psi But Rossi seems to do this The engineer seems to think by heating the chamber to 400 C increases the PSI x 3 (approx) Which means the pressures would be around 6000 psi He questions if most elements could handle this type of pressures Question : Do you think Rossi heats the chamber while the H is pressuised at 2000 psi Thanks Pete From: jth...@hotmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 16:27:03 +0800 Peter, How about this cheap heating element. Fits inside a 1/4 copper tube perfectly. http://www.ebay.com/itm/350505999493?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm570.l1313%26_nkw%3D350505999493%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1_rdc=1 Jojo
RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
JoJo wrote: Axil, Please, by all means keep the speculations and the embarrassing experimental advice coming. I have learned a lot from you and many other people here. Vortex has been the most useful forum as far as gaining insight into replicating Rossi. And PeterB wrote: I have only been on Vortex a few months and I have gained much insight. There's a lot of smart people here with a wide range of views. I'm starting to learn to appreciate the criticisms more as well. It's good to be challenged Indeed! The Collective has been much more functional and in line with its founding principles when the disfunctionals are gone. keep the focus on the technical/scientific issues, and less on the personalities. TOGETHER, we have the technical/scientific expertise, the theoretical as well as the engineering expertise to make valuable contributions. There is no reason that we can't help push this technology along. perhaps the people of the planet will succeed once again where governments and 'professionals' have failed. To all the newcomers since early 2011, you might want to use the web-interface to the forum here: http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=vortex-l@eskimo.com http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=vortex-l@eskimo.coma=1haswords a=1haswords= and do Searches in order to gather up the various discussions that went on after the Jan demo by Rossi. -Mark
RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
Thanks Mark That should help quite a bit Pete From: zeropo...@charter.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2012 20:05:10 -0800 JoJo wrote:“Axil, Please, by all means keep the speculations and the embarrassing experimental advice coming. I have learned a lot from you and many other people here. Vortex has been the most useful forum as far as gaining insight into replicating Rossi. And PeterB wrote:“I have only been on Vortex a few months and I have gained much insight. There's a lot of smart people here with a wide range of views. I’m starting to learn to appreciate the criticisms more as well. It’s good to be challenged” Indeed! The Collective has been much more functional and in line with its founding principles when the disfunctionals are gone… keep the focus on the technical/scientific issues, and less on the personalities. TOGETHER, we have the technical/scientific expertise, the theoretical as well as the engineering expertise to make valuable contributions. There is no reason that we can’t help push this technology along… perhaps the people of the planet will succeed once again where governments and ‘professionals’ have failed. To all the newcomers since early 2011, you might want to use the web-interface to the forum here:http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=vortex-l@eskimo.coma=1haswords=and do Searches in order to gather up the various discussions that went on after the Jan demo by Rossi… -Mark
Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
You should not hold the champagne. Rossi said that once his reaction was going out of control and Levi, I think it was him, injected Nitrogen to stop the reaction. So, I don't think this is exclusive to Argon, rather, it is by cutting off H and substituting it for something else. 2012/1/31 ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.com Ta-Da ... yes it is argon. It is a Mills catalyst, and we know they use it. Hold the champagne.. Piantelli says argon stops the nuclear process... http://www.rexresearch.com/piantelli/piantelli.htm In the pictures the yellow tubing appears to be for vacuum. But later in the video a tube goes into the T and out up towards the ceiling.. which hints towards venting.. not the addition of a secret gas ingredient. At 0:21 there is a picture of a lead going into the center of the reactor? Almost looks like a spark plug lead. High voltage? If I'm not mistaken, the variac goes into a big (blue with yellow stripe) transformer. (variac also appears to be on max). - Brad -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
Hi Brad Ive been able to purchase most of the instruments to do my own experiments on Ni H Because (as usual) money is tight , Im struggling to find a reasonable priced Element thatproduces 400 to 600 C , has hot zone of 100 mm and can handle a very high psi Can you recomend any products or companies that might fit the bill Thanks for you help Pete Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 20:48:34 -0800 Subject: Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot From: ecatbuil...@gmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Ta-Da ... yes it is argon. It is a Mills catalyst, and we know they use it. Hold the champagne.. Piantelli says argon stops the nuclear process... http://www.rexresearch.com/piantelli/piantelli.htm In the pictures the yellow tubing appears to be for vacuum. But later in the video a tube goes into the T and out up towards the ceiling.. which hints towards venting.. not the addition of a secret gas ingredient. At 0:21 there is a picture of a lead going into the center of the reactor? Almost looks like a spark plug lead. High voltage? If I'm not mistaken, the variac goes into a big (blue with yellow stripe) transformer. (variac also appears to be on max). - Brad
Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
Direct Link: http://i.imgur.com/g26QI.jpg T On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 3:01 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: So, Jones (and others) what do you think we are seeing here? http://imgur.com/g26QI [img]http://imgur.com/g26QI[/img] Temperature vs time? T
Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 3:03 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: Direct Link: http://i.imgur.com/g26QI.jpg My guess is the red (Ch2) is the input from the Variac and blue (Ch1) is the reactor temp. Or do you think it has something to do with the democrats and republicans? ;-) T
Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
I'm pretty sure they are both temperatures. Heater temp (red) and reactor temp (blue) is my guess. The heater is in the 100C range, the other in the 400C range. The spikes are a puzzle though... Maybe transient interference from turning on or off the heater? It doesn't seem possible for the tip of a thermocouple probe to lose 150 degrees C in an instant. But I suppose if the heater is concentrated or cooled by something, it is possible. While red might be something besides temp, it turns out measuring AC voltage from a variac is not cheap/easy to do with data acquisition boards... and there would be a much bigger lag between turning the dial and getting a heat change. If they are like me, they leave the variac at some voltage and just turn it on or off with a solid state relay or thermostat controller. - Brad My guess is the red (Ch2) is the input from the Variac and blue (Ch1) is the reactor temp. Or do you think it has something to do with the democrats and republicans? ;-) T
RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
Yes, it is basically the same kind of temperature spike seen by Janssen in the BLP video but probably both traces are from RTDs mounted in different locations. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfjOIoPwolg From: Terry Blanton Direct Link: http://i.imgur.com/g26QI.jpg T On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 3:01 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: So, Jones (and others) what do you think we are seeing here? http://imgur.com/g26QI [img]http://imgur.com/g26QI[/img] http://imgur.com/g26QI%5B/img%5D Temperature vs time? T attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
You can read it blourrily - Channel 1 inner, Channel 2 external On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 8:04 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Yes, it is basically the same kind of temperature spike seen by Janssen in the BLP video but probably both traces are from RTDs mounted in different locations. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfjOIoPwolg From: Terry Blanton Direct Link: http://i.imgur.com/g26QI.jpg T On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 3:01 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: So, Jones (and others) what do you think we are seeing here? http://imgur.com/g26QI [img]http://imgur.com/g26QI[/img] http://imgur.com/g26QI%5B/img%5D Temperature vs time? T -- Patrick www.tRacePerfect.com The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect! The quickest puzzle ever!
Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
I meant, blurred - gee i wrote that email in a rush! On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 9:14 AM, Patrick Ellul ellulpatr...@gmail.comwrote: You can read it blourrily - Channel 1 inner, Channel 2 external On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 8:04 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Yes, it is basically the same kind of temperature spike seen by Janssen in the BLP video but probably both traces are from RTDs mounted in different locations. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfjOIoPwolg From: Terry Blanton Direct Link: http://i.imgur.com/g26QI.jpg T On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 3:01 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: So, Jones (and others) what do you think we are seeing here? http://imgur.com/g26QI [img]http://imgur.com/g26QI[/img] http://imgur.com/g26QI%5B/img%5D Temperature vs time? T -- Patrick www.tRacePerfect.com The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect! The quickest puzzle ever! -- Patrick www.tRacePerfect.com The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect! The quickest puzzle ever!
RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
From Defkalion's forum, they area claiming control over power peaks/troughs: http://Defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4t=955p=5734#p5734 Defkalion GT Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:56 pm Posts: 437 @Engineer We had to ask (it was around midnight here ) our RD people who performed that specific test. They replied to your questions as follows: Q: Can you tell us what actions, if any, are taken by the experimenters between the first and second spikes? A:No! Q:Or do the spikes occur without further action? A: No, they occur following some action. Q:Do you add hydrogen between the two spikes? A: No So, 3 No's to all of your questions! We can't see why you where confused. As for the sparks: In this tests there where supposed to be two and we got two. In other tests, we can maintain the sparks very very close to each other and for as long as we want. They also told us to tell you goodnight From: ellulpatr...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2012 10:06:17 +1100 Subject: Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot To: vortex-l@eskimo.com I meant, blurred - gee i wrote that email in a rush! On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 9:14 AM, Patrick Ellul ellulpatr...@gmail.com wrote: You can read it blourrily - Channel 1 inner, Channel 2 external On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 8:04 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Yes, it is basically the same kind of temperature spike seen by Janssen in the BLP video but probably both traces are from RTDs mounted in different locations. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfjOIoPwolg From: Terry Blanton Direct Link: http://i.imgur.com/g26QI.jpg T On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 3:01 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: So, Jones (and others) what do you think we are seeing here? http://imgur.com/g26QI [img]http://imgur.com/g26QI[/img] http://imgur.com/g26QI%5B/img%5D Temperature vs time? T -- Patrick www.tRacePerfect.com The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect! The quickest puzzle ever! -- Patrick www.tRacePerfect.com The daily puzzle everyone can finish but not everyone can perfect! The quickest puzzle ever!
Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 7:35 PM, Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com wrote: As for the sparks: In this tests there where supposed to be two and we got two. In other tests, we can maintain the sparks very very close to each other and for as long as we want. They also told us to tell you goodnight Yes, that was me. This blows the hydrino theory out of the water if they don't add H. It also explains how they get a RMS power with a COP of 20 or better. Keep pushing those spikes closer together and the COP keeps going up. Quite amazin'. T
Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 4:04 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Yes, it is basically the same kind of temperature spike seen by Janssen in the BLP video but probably both traces are from RTDs mounted in different locations. I asked about the second spike and whether they added H to cause it. They admitted they did something; but, it did not involve adding H. http://www.defkalion-energy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4t=955 Page 3. I first misunderstood their answer. These guys have a good sense of humor. So, Jones, they must have added catalyst? Rowan said the H was spent. DGT says that is not the case. Interesting? T
Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
At 04:20 PM 1/30/2012, Terry Blanton wrote: On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 4:04 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Yes, it is basically the same kind of temperature spike seen by Janssen in the BLP video but probably both traces are from RTDs mounted in different locations. In the BLP video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfjOIoPwolg Jannsen (Rowan U) was using pretty much the same bare inside wall/outside wall temperature configuration that DGT is offering for an immediate response ... and then they slide the whole unit into a calorimeter to get the total power. The calorimeter seems to be wrapped in a coiled copper tube ... I'm guessing it is an external flow device.
RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
At 04:35 PM 1/30/2012, Robert Leguillon wrote: As for the sparks: In this tests there where supposed to be two and we got two. In other tests, we can maintain the sparks very very close to each other and for as long as we want. Frequencies! I smell Frequencies! They also told us to tell you goodnight Good night, Dick (Rowen Martin Laugh-In joke)
RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
-Original Message- From: Terry Blanton I asked about the second spike and whether they added H to cause it. They admitted they did something; but, it did not involve adding H. Well, since they say they do not use RF then what would it be? The Letts/Cravens effect involves lasers. None there. There is the possibility of an arc discharge, but not likely - no indication. Burst of heat - maybe. Pulse from an electromagnet- no way. However, the best bet: notice that about halfway through, one Mec is adding a T to the hydrogen line with another valve. Why? Ta-Da ... yes it is argon. It is a Mills catalyst, and we know they use it. I could not spot a standard tank of argon anywhere, but there could be a lecture bottle in there somewhere. Argon cylinders would normally have a dark green shoulder. They might have cut out the footage of that tank for the obvious reason. Jones
Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 8:26 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Ta-Da ... yes it is argon. It is a Mills catalyst, and we know they use it. By Jove, I think you have it! Should I ask? Or simply say Arggg go on! I think I shall. eg T
Re: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
Ta-Da ... yes it is argon. It is a Mills catalyst, and we know they use it. Hold the champagne.. Piantelli says argon stops the nuclear process... http://www.rexresearch.com/piantelli/piantelli.htm In the pictures the yellow tubing appears to be for vacuum. But later in the video a tube goes into the T and out up towards the ceiling.. which hints towards venting.. not the addition of a secret gas ingredient. At 0:21 there is a picture of a lead going into the center of the reactor? Almost looks like a spark plug lead. High voltage? If I'm not mistaken, the variac goes into a big (blue with yellow stripe) transformer. (variac also appears to be on max). - Brad
RE: [Vo]:DGT Screenshot
In the first video that I watched, when the camera panned left to view the gas cylinder on the floor, they blurred out the vid shortly after the tank came into view... so are they conscious of what gets onto a video??? Yes... -mark -Original Message- From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Monday, January 30, 2012 5:26 PM snip I could not spot a standard tank of argon anywhere, but there could be a lecture bottle in there somewhere. Argon cylinders would normally have a dark green shoulder. They might have cut out the footage of that tank for the obvious reason. Jones
