Re: [Vo]:What is with Papp?
At 02:31 AM 8/12/2012, Jed Rothwell wrote: I am having difficulty following the discussion from afar. Would someone please summarize in a few sentences what has happened with the Papp machine that brings it back into attention? I gather someone claims they replicated it? Is there any evidence they actually have? I don't quite follow who is claiming they have done what (to whom). A little like an orgy seen from a distance. The claims are coming from Roemer. I have known some people who took Papp's claims seriously, such as Gene Mallove, but I have never heard of an independent replication. There was that horrible accident with Feynman. A lot of people, including Gene, blamed Feynman for that. I have never heard what happened to the motor after that. Nothing, as far as I know. Feynman did a fairly obvious thing to do, and if the device was such that loss of power could produce an explosion, I'd lay the blame for that on whoever designed the control mechanism. I.e., Feynman could not have anticipated that it would explode. However, legally, Feynman was liable for the damage, equally with Papp, and that is why, I'd guess, Cal Tech paid a settlement. The theory of explosives having been planted is thin, pseudoskeptical, and it kind of stands out as an inconsistency for Feynman. Feynman was human, and, I'd assume, seriously chagrined about the death, looking for a reason why it wasn't his fault. Papp's story is *really weird.* The submarine? Mallove's article is at http://www.infinite-energy.com/iemagazine/issue51/papp.html The Ansley newspaper article can be currently found at http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/comments/papparticle.html You think Rossi is weird? Check out Papp. Later, Papp was involved in testing of his engine, and disappeared and showed up wandering about with a bullet wound in his shoulder, telling of being kidnapped and shot. Some totally incompetent kidnappers, to be sure! The story reminds me of the submarine. Supposedly Papp admitted to concocting the submarine hoax because he couldn't bear to tell people his submarine design didn't work. He risked his life for that fraud. So might he shoot himself in the shoulder? Maybe. He really was crazy as a loon. Did the engine actually work? I have utterly no idea. A lot of people saw convincing demostrations. I've made the point, many times, that demonstrations can *always* be rigged. There is no limit to human ingenuity in creating a desired appearance. However, the mysteries involved here are very strong. The power of the explosions. Papp was able to convince a lot of people, quite cautious people, that the engine was real. It's hard (though probably not impossible) to think of an explanation that doesn't involve some major new phenomenon. Message for whack-out inventors. The record of great results from keeping it all very secret is a total disaster. If the engine was real, Papp would have been wealthy many times over, even if a horde of jackals and lawyers had tried to steal it from him. There is no way he could have just sold engines, as he wanted to do. Especially not engines known to explode if something went wrong! Papp guaranteed, by his behavior, the loss of the secret, it's highly questionable if anyone will be able to resurrect this. But someone, following up on the hints, might succeed. Or not. We cannot say that an unknown reaction is impossible. Basic principle. Unlikely? Sure, be my guest. That's always a judgment call.
Re: [Vo]:What is with Papp?
Le Aug 13, 2012 à 11:24 AM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a...@lomaxdesign.com a écrit : Message for whack-out inventors. The record of great results from keeping it all very secret is a total disaster. Thank you for the links. From Eugene Mallove's article: Joseph Papp was a 'hero' to have brought this technology to the New World, but his outrageous behavior at many turns helped prevent scientific truth from emerging. This behavior appears to have included falsely claiming a PhD. I am quite new to the world of alternative energy, but I am beginning to see a pattern -- clever, unbalanced people who happen upon a great discovery, whose behavior then gets the better of them and becomes a great distraction. Throw in a colonel, a submarine, a gunshot wound, a set of mysterious explosions, a professor, a million units to be mass produced and radiation sickness for good measure. If this doesn't set the debunkers on your trail, the actual frauds who join the party will. There seems to be a kind of Lenz's law of new energy discoveries that counteracts the force of genuine claims with attending details that make them very hard to substantiate. Eric
Re: [Vo]:What is with Papp?
Le Aug 12, 2012 à 12:31 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com a écrit : I am having difficulty following the discussion from afar. Would someone please summarize in a few sentences what has happened with the Papp machine that brings it back into attention? I'm not sure if this was entirely responsible for the recent interest, but Axil found a video of Mike Rohner discussing his company's noble gas engine engine, which is a version of the Papp engine. In the video Michael McKubre endorses Rohner's claims that the engine works (at 1:03 hours into the presentation). The thread is here: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg68635.html A video of Rohner mentioned in an earlier thread in which he assembled his engine from parts and discussed how it works was quite unconvincing. Eric
Re: [Vo]:What is with Papp?
That is one Rohner, Bob. The other Rohner, John is mass producing engines by the end of the year. PESN has probably the best condensed info out there. http://pesn.com/2012/08/10/9602157_Inteligentry_to_debut_at_Power-Gen/ I did not take them seriously till McKubre's endorsement. On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 2:49 AM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: Le Aug 12, 2012 à 12:31 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com a écrit : I am having difficulty following the discussion from afar. Would someone please summarize in a few sentences what has happened with the Papp machine that brings it back into attention? I'm not sure if this was entirely responsible for the recent interest, but Axil found a video of Mike Rohner discussing his company's noble gas engine engine, which is a version of the Papp engine. In the video Michael McKubre endorses Rohner's claims that the engine works (at 1:03 hours into the presentation). The thread is here: http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg68635.html A video of Rohner mentioned in an earlier thread in which he assembled his engine from parts and discussed how it works was quite unconvincing. Eric
Re: [Vo]:What is with Papp?
I am having difficulty enough believing in the E-Cat and now along comes the resurrection of the Papp engine with little heat out and vast amounts of energy out as usable work. I think I will lose my mind soon if things don't coallese soon in the form of an energy balance on the Papp system. A bunch of guys tinkering with a thing that makes sparks and a piston jump does not impress me. Give me data or give me death. - Original Message - From: Jed Rothwell I am having difficulty following the discussion from afar...
Re: [Vo]:What is with Papp?
me too, LENR has some sort of theories backing it. The Papp-engine does'nt as far as I know. Now this does not invalidate it. Even apes and other creatures somehow intrinisically seem know what is good for them as a cure for diseases. The shamans cultivated that in the human realm. Papp and quite some others seem to practice that sort of inspiration, or whatever that is. Dreamtime. Guenter Von: Kelley Trezise ktrez2...@ssvecnet.com An: vortex-l@eskimo.com Gesendet: 17:00 Sonntag, 12.August 2012 Betreff: Re: [Vo]:What is with Papp? I am having difficulty enough believing in the E-Cat and now along comes the resurrection of the Papp engine
RE: [Vo]:What is with Papp?
Jed: Bottom line: The only videos of a continuously running engine are the old Papp ones; this conclusion was put out a few days ago to the Collective and noone has provided any links to vids showing otherwise. If anyone knows of such a video, please post the link. When I heard that McKubre was endorsing one of the Rohner's, I was encouraged and watched that vid, but McKubre's body language was tense to say the least. there was NO 'running' engine in the presentation, only the 'pop-goes-the-weasel' demo. You are close with MM, so ask him if he's ever seen one run CONTINUOUSLY, and let us know what he says. -Mark From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2012 12:32 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:What is with Papp? I am having difficulty following the discussion from afar. Would someone please summarize in a few sentences what has happened with the Papp machine that brings it back into attention? I gather someone claims they replicated it? Is there any evidence they actually have? I don't quite follow who is claiming they have done what (to whom). A little like an orgy seen from a distance. I have known some people who took Papp's claims seriously, such as Gene Mallove, but I have never heard of an independent replication. There was that horrible accident with Feynman. A lot of people, including Gene, blamed Feynman for that. I have never heard what happened to the motor after that. Nothing, as far as I know. - Jed
RE: [Vo]:What is with Papp?
Kelly sez: Give me data or give me death. That is absolutely priceless! I think we should promote the statement... start making bumper stickers or somp'tn like that. I, too, look forward to additional data. Good solid independent data. Building a couple of prototypes would be ok too. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:What is with Papp?
On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 12:39 PM, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote: I, too, look forward to additional data. Good solid independent data. Building a couple of prototypes would be ok too. Good luck with that. Bob and John do not get along: http://www.rohnerengineering.com/ I think this thing is just a battle between the two . . . both firing blanks. T
Re: [Vo]:What is with Papp?
I am attempting to listen to John Rohner explain how his engine work sand find it to be painfully difficult. If his resume is real he has a certain brilliance but it is obvious from this video that that brilliance does not spill over into the skill of expressing oneself verbally. - Original Message - From: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com I think this thing is just a battle between the two . . . both firing blanks.
Re: [Vo]:What is with Papp?
I forgot to add a link to the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5CNpW3r1Tc WARNING!!! it is painful to watch. - Original Message - From: Kelley Trezise ktrez2...@ssvecnet.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2012 12:04 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:What is with Papp? I am attempting to listen to John Rohner explain how his engine work sand find it to be painfully difficult. If his resume is real he has a certain brilliance but it is obvious from this video that that brilliance does not spill over into the skill of expressing oneself verbally. - Original Message - From: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com I think this thing is just a battle between the two . . . both firing blanks.
Re: [Vo]:What is with Papp?
On Aug 12, 2012, at 6:14, Corey Hahn coreyh...@gmail.com wrote: That is one Rohner, Bob. The other Rohner, John is mass producing engines by the end of the year. PESN has probably the best condensed info out there. http://pesn.com/2012/08/10/9602157_Inteligentry_to_debut_at_Power-Gen/ I'm having trouble following the names of the individuals and companies involved. I will need to do some more reading. What Sterling Alan says about John Rohner does not inspire confidence: In response to this seeming contradiction, John replied that he purposely sent the engine without some of the components, such as the starter motor, so that it wouldn't be able to be run. Again, their policy at this time is that the public doesn't get to see the unit running until the public debut. I also asked John what he says in response to assertions that he doesn't have even one Ph.D., let alone two, from MIT. He replied something to the effect: Who gives a shit. Everything I learned in 1962 is invalid any way. He also said that his Ph.D.s are under secret lock, and there is nothing I can do about it. He went on to say that he has spent 40 years designing things that are supposed to be impossible. Take a hard look at my resume. I still turn down 'consulting' jobs every week. I take it Michael McKubre was making no claims about the operation of Intelligentry's engine, which is connected to John Rohner, and was referring instead to something Bob Rohner had shown him? Or maybe Bob Rohner demonstrated Intelligentry's device to McKubre? Eric
Re: [Vo]:What is with Papp?
From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2012 12:31:53 AM I am having difficulty following the discussion from afar. Would someone please summarize in a few sentences what has happened with the Papp machine that brings it back into attention? My understanding : I believe that the original engines were made in the Rohner (Snr) shop .. and that Tom made the original controller (with electrical cross-feeds between pairs of cylinders. Various people got hold of the original engines. Jimmy Sabori got one, raised and spent lots of money, demonstrated the original engine, but never made a new one. Bob Tom Rohner got another (they say John wasn't involved) and again demonstrated it but never made a new one. Tom recently died. John Rhoner made an all-electronic controller (per his resume he has LOTS of controller experience) -- and this is the heart of the new intelligentry/plasma engines[s]. In particular, it no longer needs the cylinder cross-coupling, so single cylinder (eg popper) versions are now possible, and it no longer needs radioactive elements in the piston/electrodes. John apparently has patents (defended against Bob?) for the new system. They have the Tesla public demos of the one-cylinder, the controller/coil/electrode kit, and videos of assembling the new enineering trainer engine which they have apparently supplied to their licensees. But NO video of it running. They say the first public run of ANY engine will be at the December Powergen expo.
Re: [Vo]:What is with Papp?
http://pesn.com/2012/08/10/9602158_Bill_Clinton_and_Harry_Reid_allegedly_supporting_Inteligentry/ Bill Clinton and Harry Reid allegedly supporting Inteligentry John Rohner is trying to get support from Bill Clinton and Harry Reid and at the same time he wants them to crush his brother Bob using the IRS for running a SCAM. This vendetta is also out to destroy Michael McKubre, and ally of Bob. Cheers:Axil On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 3:20 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2012 12:31:53 AM I am having difficulty following the discussion from afar. Would someone please summarize in a few sentences what has happened with the Papp machine that brings it back into attention? My understanding : I believe that the original engines were made in the Rohner (Snr) shop .. and that Tom made the original controller (with electrical cross-feeds between pairs of cylinders. Various people got hold of the original engines. Jimmy Sabori got one, raised and spent lots of money, demonstrated the original engine, but never made a new one. Bob Tom Rohner got another (they say John wasn't involved) and again demonstrated it but never made a new one. Tom recently died. John Rhoner made an all-electronic controller (per his resume he has LOTS of controller experience) -- and this is the heart of the new intelligentry/plasma engines[s]. In particular, it no longer needs the cylinder cross-coupling, so single cylinder (eg popper) versions are now possible, and it no longer needs radioactive elements in the piston/electrodes. John apparently has patents (defended against Bob?) for the new system. They have the Tesla public demos of the one-cylinder, the controller/coil/electrode kit, and videos of assembling the new enineering trainer engine which they have apparently supplied to their licensees. But NO video of it running. They say the first public run of ANY engine will be at the December Powergen expo.
Re: [Vo]:What is with Papp?
Kelly, I believe the process is the same in ALL of these systems that work. Gas Ionization/Excitement, Confinement, Sparking/Arcing, Reaction. The reaction gives off additional ions to sustain the reaction without further outside energy from sparking and arcing if you control it well. I think that Rossi tube has one or two coils in that tube wall powered by those wires. The air is ionized/excited in the center of that tube and already reacting and radiating heat out the ends and on the inside walls of the tube, that is why the outside wall is not glowing. The reaction/heat is coming from THE AIR. Once the reaction starts and is controlled by energy from the coil you can most likely sustain it. Papp uses Helium ionization/excitement, confinement, intermittent arcing to trigger the instantaneous reaction which expands the gas to drive the piston. Heat is given off but they do not fire the plug continuously so not as much. DGT uses ionization, gas confinement in voids/cracks, intermittent arcing across voids to trigger the reaction. In the DGT system they are hampered by having to create a NAE in the nickel lattice. While that is a good environment to possibly create new atomic elements (they created 8 NEW fission and fusion products in their slide) it hampers their heat production. Since it is believed lightning in nature can create a similar reaction, there is no reason it cannot be optimized with these devices. So far it looks like we ARE TRANSFORMING MATTER AND ENERGY which is cool. On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Kelley Trezise ktrez2...@ssvecnet.comwrote: I am attempting to listen to John Rohner explain how his engine work sand find it to be painfully difficult. If his resume is real he has a certain brilliance but it is obvious from this video that that brilliance does not spill over into the skill of expressing oneself verbally. - Original Message - From: Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com I think this thing is just a battle between the two . . . both firing blanks.
Re: [Vo]:What is with Papp?
Alan, the problem with the Papp engine seems to me that it has NO theory backing it. This by a long shot. To use a mixture of noble gases -then something strange happens- is akin to voodoo. One other pattern of this sort of voodoo is to put the burden on to some obscure 'controllers', who do the job. Sterling Allan eg seems to regularly fall into this trap. Part of his 'business model'? All those engines are near completion. Finally conspiracies are invoked to rationalize the slow progress/temporary failure. (As a harsh critic of this sort of cheering unsubstantial claims I have been kicked off the vortex list without any comments from the maintainer of the list. Which astonishes me as a European, how thinskinned Americans actually are, pursuing their dreams. If one does not filter out the negative angle, one endangers the american dream of everything possible, it seems. This, I assure You, has given me some insight. So I occasionally reply to individual posters. ) all the best Guenter Von: Alan Fletcher a...@well.com An: vortex-l@eskimo.com Gesendet: 21:20 Sonntag, 12.August 2012 Betreff: Re: [Vo]:What is with Papp? From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2012 12:31:53 AM I am having difficulty following the discussion from afar. Would someone please summarize in a few sentences what has happened with the Papp machine that brings it back into attention? My understanding : I believe that the original engines were made in the Rohner (Snr) shop .. and that Tom made the original controller (with electrical cross-feeds between pairs of cylinders. Various people got hold of the original engines. Jimmy Sabori got one, raised and spent lots of money, demonstrated the original engine, but never made a new one. Bob Tom Rohner got another (they say John wasn't involved) and again demonstrated it but never made a new one. Tom recently died. John Rhoner made an all-electronic controller (per his resume he has LOTS of controller experience) -- and this is the heart of the new intelligentry/plasma engines[s]. In particular, it no longer needs the cylinder cross-coupling, so single cylinder (eg popper) versions are now possible, and it no longer needs radioactive elements in the piston/electrodes. John apparently has patents (defended against Bob?) for the new system. They have the Tesla public demos of the one-cylinder, the controller/coil/electrode kit, and videos of assembling the new enineering trainer engine which they have apparently supplied to their licensees. But NO video of it running. They say the first public run of ANY engine will be at the December Powergen expo.
Re: [Vo]:What is with Papp?
In reply to Alan Fletcher's message of Sun, 12 Aug 2012 12:20:11 -0700 (PDT): Hi, [snip] John Rhoner made an all-electronic controller (per his resume he has LOTS of controller experience) -- and this is the heart of the new intelligentry/plasma engines[s]. In particular, it no longer needs the cylinder cross-coupling, so single cylinder (eg popper) versions are now possible, and it no longer needs radioactive elements in the piston/electrodes. Fast particles promote Hydrino amplification. These may either be supplied by a radioactive substance, or by a high voltage, high current spark. For the latter, good electronics are required. Cross cylinder coupling may also have made use of an EM shock created in one cylinder to produce the necessary spark in another. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:What is with Papp?
When I visited Bob, Saturday, he said his brother died. On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: http://pesn.com/2012/08/10/9602158_Bill_Clinton_and_Harry_Reid_allegedly_supporting_Inteligentry/ Bill Clinton and Harry Reid allegedly supporting Inteligentry John Rohner is trying to get support from Bill Clinton and Harry Reid and at the same time he wants them to crush his brother Bob using the IRS for running a SCAM. This vendetta is also out to destroy Michael McKubre, and ally of Bob. Cheers:Axil On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 3:20 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2012 12:31:53 AM I am having difficulty following the discussion from afar. Would someone please summarize in a few sentences what has happened with the Papp machine that brings it back into attention? My understanding : I believe that the original engines were made in the Rohner (Snr) shop .. and that Tom made the original controller (with electrical cross-feeds between pairs of cylinders. Various people got hold of the original engines. Jimmy Sabori got one, raised and spent lots of money, demonstrated the original engine, but never made a new one. Bob Tom Rohner got another (they say John wasn't involved) and again demonstrated it but never made a new one. Tom recently died. John Rhoner made an all-electronic controller (per his resume he has LOTS of controller experience) -- and this is the heart of the new intelligentry/plasma engines[s]. In particular, it no longer needs the cylinder cross-coupling, so single cylinder (eg popper) versions are now possible, and it no longer needs radioactive elements in the piston/electrodes. John apparently has patents (defended against Bob?) for the new system. They have the Tesla public demos of the one-cylinder, the controller/coil/electrode kit, and videos of assembling the new enineering trainer engine which they have apparently supplied to their licensees. But NO video of it running. They say the first public run of ANY engine will be at the December Powergen expo.
Re: [Vo]:What is with Papp?
Excuse me, it was Friday that I visited Bob. On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 5:04 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: When I visited Bob, Saturday, he said his brother died. On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: http://pesn.com/2012/08/10/9602158_Bill_Clinton_and_Harry_Reid_allegedly_supporting_Inteligentry/ Bill Clinton and Harry Reid allegedly supporting Inteligentry John Rohner is trying to get support from Bill Clinton and Harry Reid and at the same time he wants them to crush his brother Bob using the IRS for running a SCAM. This vendetta is also out to destroy Michael McKubre, and ally of Bob. Cheers:Axil On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 3:20 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2012 12:31:53 AM I am having difficulty following the discussion from afar. Would someone please summarize in a few sentences what has happened with the Papp machine that brings it back into attention? My understanding : I believe that the original engines were made in the Rohner (Snr) shop .. and that Tom made the original controller (with electrical cross-feeds between pairs of cylinders. Various people got hold of the original engines. Jimmy Sabori got one, raised and spent lots of money, demonstrated the original engine, but never made a new one. Bob Tom Rohner got another (they say John wasn't involved) and again demonstrated it but never made a new one. Tom recently died. John Rhoner made an all-electronic controller (per his resume he has LOTS of controller experience) -- and this is the heart of the new intelligentry/plasma engines[s]. In particular, it no longer needs the cylinder cross-coupling, so single cylinder (eg popper) versions are now possible, and it no longer needs radioactive elements in the piston/electrodes. John apparently has patents (defended against Bob?) for the new system. They have the Tesla public demos of the one-cylinder, the controller/coil/electrode kit, and videos of assembling the new enineering trainer engine which they have apparently supplied to their licensees. But NO video of it running. They say the first public run of ANY engine will be at the December Powergen expo.
Re: [Vo]:What is with Papp?
http://www.rohnermachine.com/pageaboutus.html *Tom Rohner died in March after a long and painful battle against pancreatic cancer.* ** *John and Bob survive.* Cheers: Axil On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 6:06 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: Excuse me, it was Friday that I visited Bob. On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 5:04 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: When I visited Bob, Saturday, he said his brother died. On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: http://pesn.com/2012/08/10/9602158_Bill_Clinton_and_Harry_Reid_allegedly_supporting_Inteligentry/ Bill Clinton and Harry Reid allegedly supporting Inteligentry John Rohner is trying to get support from Bill Clinton and Harry Reid and at the same time he wants them to crush his brother Bob using the IRS for running a SCAM. This vendetta is also out to destroy Michael McKubre, and ally of Bob. Cheers:Axil On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 3:20 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2012 12:31:53 AM I am having difficulty following the discussion from afar. Would someone please summarize in a few sentences what has happened with the Papp machine that brings it back into attention? My understanding : I believe that the original engines were made in the Rohner (Snr) shop .. and that Tom made the original controller (with electrical cross-feeds between pairs of cylinders. Various people got hold of the original engines. Jimmy Sabori got one, raised and spent lots of money, demonstrated the original engine, but never made a new one. Bob Tom Rohner got another (they say John wasn't involved) and again demonstrated it but never made a new one. Tom recently died. John Rhoner made an all-electronic controller (per his resume he has LOTS of controller experience) -- and this is the heart of the new intelligentry/plasma engines[s]. In particular, it no longer needs the cylinder cross-coupling, so single cylinder (eg popper) versions are now possible, and it no longer needs radioactive elements in the piston/electrodes. John apparently has patents (defended against Bob?) for the new system. They have the Tesla public demos of the one-cylinder, the controller/coil/electrode kit, and videos of assembling the new enineering trainer engine which they have apparently supplied to their licensees. But NO video of it running. They say the first public run of ANY engine will be at the December Powergen expo.
Re: [Vo]:What is with Papp?
So, for those coming up to speed on the whole Noble Gas Engine story, an additional layer of confusion is the definition of Bob's brother. On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 5:15 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.rohnermachine.com/pageaboutus.html *Tom Rohner died in March after a long and painful battle against pancreatic cancer.* ** *John and Bob survive.* Cheers: Axil On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 6:06 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: Excuse me, it was Friday that I visited Bob. On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 5:04 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: When I visited Bob, Saturday, he said his brother died. On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: http://pesn.com/2012/08/10/9602158_Bill_Clinton_and_Harry_Reid_allegedly_supporting_Inteligentry/ Bill Clinton and Harry Reid allegedly supporting Inteligentry John Rohner is trying to get support from Bill Clinton and Harry Reid and at the same time he wants them to crush his brother Bob using the IRS for running a SCAM. This vendetta is also out to destroy Michael McKubre, and ally of Bob. Cheers:Axil On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 3:20 PM, Alan Fletcher a...@well.com wrote: From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2012 12:31:53 AM I am having difficulty following the discussion from afar. Would someone please summarize in a few sentences what has happened with the Papp machine that brings it back into attention? My understanding : I believe that the original engines were made in the Rohner (Snr) shop .. and that Tom made the original controller (with electrical cross-feeds between pairs of cylinders. Various people got hold of the original engines. Jimmy Sabori got one, raised and spent lots of money, demonstrated the original engine, but never made a new one. Bob Tom Rohner got another (they say John wasn't involved) and again demonstrated it but never made a new one. Tom recently died. John Rhoner made an all-electronic controller (per his resume he has LOTS of controller experience) -- and this is the heart of the new intelligentry/plasma engines[s]. In particular, it no longer needs the cylinder cross-coupling, so single cylinder (eg popper) versions are now possible, and it no longer needs radioactive elements in the piston/electrodes. John apparently has patents (defended against Bob?) for the new system. They have the Tesla public demos of the one-cylinder, the controller/coil/electrode kit, and videos of assembling the new enineering trainer engine which they have apparently supplied to their licensees. But NO video of it running. They say the first public run of ANY engine will be at the December Powergen expo.
Re: [Vo]:What is with Papp?
From the link below I gleened this treasure from Allen Sterling: ...But let me proffer the following reality check. Most people in today's top political establishment are puppets for a shadow government whose purpose is to subjugate the world into a Marxists dictatorship, making us all slaves. Clinton is a high-level player for that shadow government. Reid, likewise is beholden to their manipulations. I hope you will pardon me while I make a sickening gurgling sound and volitus upon the floor. - Original Message - From: James Bowery To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2012 3:04 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:What is with Papp? When I visited Bob, Saturday, he said his brother died. On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 2:25 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: http://pesn.com/2012/08/10/9602158_Bill_Clinton_and_Harry_Reid_allegedly_supporting_Inteligentry/
