Re: Moral High-horse - was Re: [WSG] Failed Redesign and the Media
On 1/31/06, Lachlan Hardy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Christian Montoya wrote: Please send Clear Blue Day another e-mail and ask them if they have any dinosaurs in their office. This is not intended as an attack on Christian, nor anyone else. Not at all. I'm dead serious on that However, the comment above has reminded me of an attitude I see growing on this list and I want to put forward my point of view It is easy to get on a moral high-horse just because we know about standards I would never make a comment like that off-list. Just trying to lighten things up a little. As for if anyone on this list is getting on a moral high-horse because they know about standards, I have yet to see it. From my point of view, the standards community has some of the most modest and respectful people I've ever seen. I think a lot of the negative tension is being injected from the detractors who don't like standards-supporters, not from within. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] No style
On 31/01/2006, at 4:59 PM, Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox wrote: Let's say I have my global style sheet where I style my ph1 etc. but on one page I have a div with id #editableArea I want that div to have no style applied that is defined in the style sheet, is that possible? You would have to undefine any styles applied to it - basically, there is no such thing as 'unstyled' in the sense you use it, you just have to unset everything that has been applied to it. The easiest way to do that, I think, would be to open the page in Firefox, open the DOM Inspector (Under 'Tools') and navigate down to the element of interest. The view 'computed styles' under the icon at the top left of the right hand pane, and examine what it has. You would have to change such things as colours, margins, font-size - everything listed there. Bear in mind that some things are set to 0, some to 'none' and some to 'normal' (Oh for some commonality!) HIH Lea -- Lea de Groot Brisbane, Australia ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] automated response
Hi, Thanks for emailing me. I'll be in Europe on business from January 30-February 6. I'll be checking email daily. Regards, Lisa Welchman http://www.welchmanconsulting.com http://www.cmsadvisor.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Alternate Navigation
With the use of the object tag is it possible to include an alternate ul navigation, should FLASH fail? I don't know if you can do that directly with the object tag but you could look at using unobtrusive javascript to add your flash to the page, replacing an existing ul. Have a look at Bobby van der Sluis's Unobtrusive Flash Objects (UFO) v3.0 http://www.bobbyvandersluis.com/ufo/ Richard -- DonkeyMagic: Website design development http://www.donkeymagic.co.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] list's with header text
Hello all. Just wondering if there is such a thing as a header tag for a HTML list, ul or ol, such as the TH tag or the Summary tag for a table? Would be a handy feature, but I haven't seen anything like this out there yet? So you could have: The following are the days of the week 1. Monday 2. Tuesday 3. Wednesday and so on, with there being some method of indicating that the heading is related to the list items. Would anyone know if this is possible or a W3C plan in the works? Cheers Paul
Re: [WSG] list's with header text
Paul, on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 at 11:39 wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: What's wrong with this? hxThe following are the days of the week/hx ol liMonday/li liTuesday/li liWednesday/li /ol regards Martin ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] list's with header text
Regrettably not. I'd also love some way to associate a header element with content, much like fieldset's legend element does, but unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately, because it'd be potentially hellish to make work consistently with some automated content management stuff!) no such thing exists. Mind you, linear association is pretty sensible, at least until we start doing stupid things with JavaScript/the DOM, so it's probably not an amazingly required element. Josh On 1/31/06, Paul Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all. Just wondering if there is such a thing as a header tag for a HTML list, ul or ol, such as the TH tag or the Summary tag for a table? Would be a handy feature, but I haven't seen anything like this out there yet? So you could have: The following are the days of the week 1. Monday 2. Tuesday 3. Wednesday and so on, with there being some method of indicating that the heading is related to the list items. Would anyone know if this is possible or a W3C plan in the works? Cheers Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] list's with header text
Sarcasm Alert :) !--[if ! Moral High-Horse Police] or... you could use a definition list: dl dtDays of the Week/dt dd dl dtDay 0/dt ddSunday/dd dtDay 1/dt ddMonday/dd . /dl /dd That way, everyone will know what you mean. ![endif]-- Stephen. On 31 Jan 2006, at 11:09, Martin Heiden wrote: Paul, on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 at 11:39 wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: What's wrong with this? hxThe following are the days of the week/hx ol liMonday/li liTuesday/li liWednesday/li /ol regards Martin ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] list's with header text
On 31/01/2006, at 8:39 PM, Paul Collins wrote: Just wondering if there is such a thing as a header tag for a HTML list, ul or ol, such as the TH tag or the Summary tag for a table? No, sadly. The only way to 'associate' a header with some following content is to wrap the set in a div, or similar: div id=thisweek h2The following are the days of the week:/h2 ol liMonday/li liTuesday/li liWednesday/li ... /ol /div Wouldn't h2 for=mylist/h2 ol id=mylist/ol be nice? :) Who's got the ear of the W3C? ;) Lea -- Lea de Groot Brisbane, Australia ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] 2 Q: New web site, which DTD I should use? and Compresion
Hello, 1) I'm going to create a new website fully standard, CSS, XHTML, WAI... I'd like to know your opinion about which DTD I should use, advantages and disadvantages... XHTML 1.0 Transitional XHTML 1.0 Strict XHTML 1.1 2) What's your opinion about HTML, CSS and Javascript compresion techniques, removing spaces, line breaks... these could save a lot of bandwidth in a high visited website... But this could affect to spiders, Googlebot? Thanks! :: Roberto Santana ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] list's with header text
G'day Paul, I haven't done coding on this, however I think it may be possible by setting a class for your bold heading with no bottom padding or margin and then using an ordered list. Regards, Ric Paul Collins wrote: Paul Collins wrote: Hello all. Just wondering if there is such a thing as a header tag for a HTML list, ul or ol, such as the TH tag or the Summary tag for a table? Would be a handy feature, but I haven't seen anything like this out there yet? So you could have: *The following are the days of the week* 1. Monday 2. Tuesday 3. Wednesday and so on, with there being some method of indicating that the heading is related to the list items. Would anyone know if this is possible or a W3C plan in the works? Cheers Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] list's with header text
Hi thanks allfor your replies. Stephen, are definition lists supported by JAWS or any other screen reader? Last time I tried to test them with JAWS it didn't seem to pick up that it was anything different to normal text. Maybe you can tell me otherwise. Thanks Paul - Original Message - From: Stephen Stagg To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 11:33 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] list's with header text Sarcasm Alert :)!--[if ! Moral High-Horse Police]or... you could use a definition list:dldtDays of the Week/dtdddldtDay 0/dtddSunday/dddtDay 1/dtddMonday/dd./dl/ddThat way, everyone will know what you mean. ![endif]--Stephen.On 31 Jan 2006, at 11:09, Martin Heiden wrote: Paul, on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 at 11:39 wsg@webstandardsgroup.org wrote: What's wrong with this? hxThe following are the days of the week/hx ol liMonday/li liTuesday/li liWednesday/li /ol regards Martin ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help**
Re: [WSG] 2 Q: New web site, which DTD I should use? and Compresion
1) HTML 4.01 Strict, unless you've got really ambitious plans and a very good idea what user agents will be in play: keeping in mind Internet Explorer doesn't support XHTML served as application/xhtml+xml, so it's still going to be parsed as straight HTML in that browser. 2) So far as I'm aware, that's what mod_gzip does on servers that support it. Whitespace supposedly compresses really well, so there's no real harm in leaving it if your server is compressing content. For a non-server-side-dependent solution, http://www.freshstartcafe.com/css-compress/ looks good for CSS compression, and if you're interested in compressing your HTML + Javascript I think you'd probably have to do it manually. I can't see how it'd make any great different so search engines, particularly if your pages are well-formed. Regards, Josh. On 1/31/06, Roberto Santana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, 1) I'm going to create a new website fully standard, CSS, XHTML, WAI... I'd like to know your opinion about which DTD I should use, advantages and disadvantages... XHTML 1.0 Transitional XHTML 1.0 Strict XHTML 1.1 2) What's your opinion about HTML, CSS and Javascript compresion techniques, removing spaces, line breaks... these could save a lot of bandwidth in a high visited website... But this could affect to spiders, Googlebot? Thanks! :: Roberto Santana ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] list's with header text
Thanks Ric, you're definitely right and this would work. It would be nice however if there was an equivalent to the Summary or Legend attribute where a screen reader would read outthat there is an unorderedlist with say,10 items and then read the summary at the top. What yousay would workwell though, just a whim really. Cheers mate Paul - Original Message - From: Ric Raftis To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 11:43 AM Subject: Re: [WSG] list's with header text G'day Paul,I haven't done coding on this, however I think it may be possible by setting a class for your bold heading with no bottom padding or margin and then using an ordered list.Regards,RicPaul Collins wrote:Paul Collins wrote: Hello all. Just wondering if there is such a thing as a header tag for a HTML list, ul or ol, such as the TH tag or the Summary tag for a table? Would be a handy feature, but I haven't seen anything like this out there yet? So you could have: *The following are the days of the week* 1. Monday 2. Tuesday 3. Wednesday and so on, with there being some method of indicating that the heading is related to the list items. Would anyone know if this is possible or a W3C plan in the works? Cheers Paul**The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfmfor some hints on posting to the list getting help**
Re: [WSG] 2 Q: New web site, which DTD I should use? and Compresion
Roberto Santana wrote: 1) I'm going to create a new website fully standard, CSS, XHTML, WAI... I'd like to know your opinion about which DTD I should use, advantages and disadvantages... XHTML 1.0 Transitional XHTML 1.0 Strict XHTML 1.1 HTML 4.01 Strict. !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd; Strict DOCTYPEs are best because most of the deprecated features no longer need to be used. There are some exceptions, such as the start or value attributes used in ol and li elements, but you'll usually only ever need to use a strict DOCTYPE. Plus, a transitional DOCTYPE will actually trigger Almost Standards Mode in Mozilla. The differences are minimal and you probably won't even notice the difference, but just to be on the safe side, full standards compliance mode is best. I recommend HTML over XHTML for various reasons I won't go into now, but mostly because the world isn't ready for XHTML yet. (There's plenty of discussion of the reasons in the archives and elsewhere on the web if you want to go looking) 2) What's your opinion about HTML, CSS and Javascript compresion techniques, removing spaces, line breaks... these could save a lot of bandwidth in a high visited website... But this could affect to spiders, Googlebot? It's a waste of time to strip spaces like that, though there is little harm in doing so. It only affects the reability for anyone looking at the source. Just configure your server to use gzip or deflate compression. There's plenty of info in the Apache docs that'll tell you how to set that up (assuming you're using Apache). -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] list's with header text
Lea de Groot Wouldn't h2 for=mylist/h2 ol id=mylist/ol be nice? :) So what do you do when you have 2 or more elements that the heading refers to? h2 for=mypara1 mypara2/h2 p id=mypara1/p p id=mypara2/p etc? It's not really a scalable solution, IMHO. As someone already mentioned, the source order should be enough to inform what the heading refers to, without the need for explicit association. Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Web Editor / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] list's with header text
patrick wrote As someone already mentioned, the source order should be enough to inform what the heading refers to, without the need for explicit association. sorry i dont understand this could someone please explain? -best kvnmcwebn ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] 2 Q: New web site, which DTD I should use? and Compresion
--- Lachlan Hunt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HTML 4.01 Strict. !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd; I recommend HTML over XHTML for various reasons I won't go into now So even if a site is written fully XHTML 1.0 Strict compliant, and validates as such, it is still recommended to use HTML 4.01 Strict? Francesco ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] 2 Q: New web site, which DTD I should use? and Compresion
Thanks for your answers I'll use HTML 4.01 Strict, I've been 'googling' and as Lachlan said the word seems not to be ready to XHTML. About compression, I wasn't talking about gzip, just talking about removing unnecesary spaces and line breaks... It seems that it doesn't matter to google, I've been playing with Lynx and the pages looks fine compressed... Thanks! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] list's with header text
kvnmcwebn patrick wrote As someone already mentioned, the source order should be enough to inform what the heading refers to, without the need for explicit association. sorry i dont understand this could someone please explain? If you have a heading, followed by some other content (but not a heading of same or higher importance), the heading can be assumed to refer to that content. Fairly simple. h1This heading refers to what comes after it/h1 pthis is part of what the h1 refers to/p pthis is also part of what the h1 refers to/p h1Another heading/h1 pthis is now part of what the other heading refers to/p pthis is also part of what the other heading refers to/p I.e.: the order in which the elements are present in the source code should be enough to determine which heading refers to what... Patrick Patrick H. Lauke Web Editor / University of Salford http://www.salford.ac.uk Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force http://webstandards.org/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] 2 Q: New web site, which DTD I should use? and Compresion
So even if a site is written fully XHTML 1.0 Strict compliant, and validates as such, it is still recommended to use HTML 4.01 Strict? Francesco Francesco, Many list members here are going to suggest that you use HTML 4.01 instead as technically what the user agents (browsers in this case) receive is not XHTML as the Recommendation indicates which is as XML. What the browsers almost always receive is text/html. I used to question this whole thing and then I thought to myself there is no real point to use the XHTML anyway since it isn't served as the W3C recommends. Many developers are moved to use XHTML because others have or because it was newer than 4.01. That doesn't mean they were right in either case. Coding in 4.01 Strict is little different from XHTML except for the XML tag closure requirement and not using XHTML 1.0 strict served as html/text goes against the way it was intended to be served. Unfortunately there is much heated debate here often about this as the W3C's recommendations are so easy to interpret with slightly different outcomes for many people. All I would do is try to think about why you chose XHTML for your document. Is it because it is the correct doctype to use, the newer doctype or the popular doctype. I have gone to 4.01 Strict from XHTML 1.0 because I realised I was following the pack because it was the new, cool doctype, used by people I admire and look up to. Just because they are using it doesn't make it right. All the best, Jay Gilmore Developer/Consultant Affordable Websites and Marketing Solutions for Real Small Business. SmashingRed Web Marketing P) 902.529.0651 E) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Moral High-horse - was Re: [WSG] Failed Redesign and the Media
As a far-from-guru-status Web Standards supporter/coder (I try) I have witnessed, on this list and on another css-specific list, quite a bit of condescending and 'forced-opinion' type of replies. It doesn't make for a nice atmosphere when looking to these lists for help. Completely agree. The most common off-list comments I receive are along the lines of a great list, very helpful, but sometimes a bit of attitude. Also, I don't think 'moral high-horse' is the right term for it though... What about web standards shetland pony? Russ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: Moral High-horse - was Re: [WSG] Failed Redesign and the Media
On 1/31/06 2:59 AM, Christian Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As for if anyone on this list is getting on a moral high-horse because they know about standards, I have yet to see it. From my point of view, As a far-from-guru-status Web Standards supporter/coder (I try) I have witnessed, on this list and on another css-specific list, quite a bit of condescending and 'forced-opinion' type of replies. It doesn't make for a nice atmosphere when looking to these lists for help. Also, I don't think 'moral high-horse' is the right term for it though... -- Tom Livingston Senior Multimedia Artist Media Logic www.mlinc.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: Moral High-horse - was Re: [WSG] Failed Redesign and the Media
russ - maxdesign wrote: *snip Completely agree. The most common off-list comments I receive are along the lines of "a great list, very helpful, but sometimes a bit of attitude". *snip Part of the reason I stopped reading the list was that I was getting so many threads filled with near religious extremism regarding this recommendation or that method. It got to the point where I went to digest mode and then stopped reading it even though I feel that it was one of the most useful groups I have ever been involved in. I have come back because I am hungry for discussion on web standards. Thanks to Russ, Jay Jay Gilmore Developer/Consultant Affordable Websites and Marketing Solutions for Real Small Business. SmashingRed Web Marketing P) 902.529.0651 E) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [WSG] No style
On 1/31/06, Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any way to specify in CSS that a certain area is to have no style at all. All browsers have a default style sheet, and there's differences between the default styles in different browsers, so there's no such thing as 'no style'. The closest you'll get is to specify the same padding, margins, font etc as your most common browser displays when no author styles are specified. -- Kay Smoljak http://kay.zombiecoder.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: Moral High-horse - was Re: [WSG] Failed Redesign and the Media
From: russ - maxdesign [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Web Standards Group wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 9:38 AM Subject: Re: Moral High-horse - was Re: [WSG] Failed Redesign and the Media As a far-from-guru-status Web Standards supporter/coder (I try) I have witnessed, on this list and on another css-specific list, quite a bit of condescending and 'forced-opinion' type of replies. It doesn't make for a nice atmosphere when looking to these lists for help. Completely agree. The most common off-list comments I receive are along the lines of a great list, very helpful, but sometimes a bit of attitude. Also, I don't think 'moral high-horse' is the right term for it though... What about web standards shetland pony? LOL. I've been guilty of editorializing (from differing perspectives) at times and I find that slowing the trigger on the send button along with a healthy does of mindfulness goes a long way :-). When you have too many chefs in the kitchen, things can start to get hot - or confusing, especially for those who came to learn. -- Al Sparber ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] IE - as usual
Hi, Last time i checked I thought IE could manage links and sources that started with / to mean the root folder. http://carolinemylon.co.uk/index.php the images and links are working in Safari and Firefox (OSX and Win), but having tested it on one machine on IE6 and another on IE7, it's all wrong. I feel I must be missing something very silly. Sometimes you just need someone to go 'dur... look'. I am having my first attempt at one of the javascript transparent png fixes in this site, but the same problem seemed to happen when i removed it. Any help will be greatly appreciated. James Darling Abscond Design http://abscond.org ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: Moral High-horse - was Re: [WSG] Failed Redesign and the Media
On 1/31/06, Al Sparber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: LOL. I've been guilty of editorializing (from differing perspectives) at times and I find that slowing the trigger on the send button along with a healthy does of mindfulness goes a long way :-). When you have too many chefs in the kitchen, things can start to get hot - or confusing, especially for those who came to learn. Well if anyone did think my joke was offensive then I can refrain from making it again. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: Moral High-horse - was Re: [WSG] Failed Redesign and the Media
Christian Montoya wrote: Well if anyone did think my joke was offensive then I can refrain from making it again. Maybe some desensitizing is called for - on all sides? I think we can all handle a joke from time to time... :-) ...along with the standard stuff. Tom Livingston wrote: Also, I don't think 'moral high-horse' is the right term for it though... russ - maxdesign wrote: What about web standards shetland pony? No! They are of a higher standard... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shetland_pony ... ;-) Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] 2 Q: New web site, which DTD I should use? and Compresion
Actually, on this XHTML/HTML point I have an anecdote to share. I recently started in a new job at a place that was aware CSS/semantic markup was the way to go, but didn't really have a clue as to how to go about that. Their content management system is filled with various legacy markup components which I'm slowly making people get rid of. I've found that the BEST way to make developers co-operate is to quietly put a bit of PHP in the header to serve application/xhtml+xml to browsers that support it, then watch them scratch their heads as previously-not-quite-well-formed pages that were parsed as soup degenerate into a page full of parser errors (n.b. this only works if the developers use a non-IE browser, obviously), forcing them to fix markup/ask what's wrong + why! Then, once all that is sorted out, quietly switch the doctype back and set the content-type back to text/html ;-) /devious Josh On 2/1/06, Jay Gilmore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So even if a site is written fully XHTML 1.0 Strict compliant, and validates as such, it is still recommended to use HTML 4.01 Strict? Francesco Francesco, Many list members here are going to suggest that you use HTML 4.01 instead as technically what the user agents (browsers in this case) receive is not XHTML as the Recommendation indicates which is as XML. What the browsers almost always receive is text/html. I used to question this whole thing and then I thought to myself there is no real point to use the XHTML anyway since it isn't served as the W3C recommends. Many developers are moved to use XHTML because others have or because it was newer than 4.01. That doesn't mean they were right in either case. Coding in 4.01 Strict is little different from XHTML except for the XML tag closure requirement and not using XHTML 1.0 strict served as html/text goes against the way it was intended to be served. Unfortunately there is much heated debate here often about this as the W3C's recommendations are so easy to interpret with slightly different outcomes for many people. All I would do is try to think about why you chose XHTML for your document. Is it because it is the correct doctype to use, the newer doctype or the popular doctype. I have gone to 4.01 Strict from XHTML 1.0 because I realised I was following the pack because it was the new, cool doctype, used by people I admire and look up to. Just because they are using it doesn't make it right. All the best, Jay Gilmore Developer/Consultant Affordable Websites and Marketing Solutions for Real Small Business. SmashingRed Web Marketing P) 902.529.0651 E) [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Joshua Street http://www.joahua.com/ +61 (0) 425 808 469 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] No style
Practically speaking, it's a good idea to reset font-size, padding and
margin on * at the start of your CSS file. This does help improve
consistancy somewhat.
* {
padding:0;
margin:0;
font-size:100.01%;
}
Then, obviously, you can style individual elements from that, and you
know what the default (base) is if you want to undefine styles on
specific elements.
On 2/1/06, Kay Smoljak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 1/31/06, Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Is there any way to specify in CSS that a certain area is to have no style
at all.
All browsers have a default style sheet, and there's differences
between the default styles in different browsers, so there's no such
thing as 'no style'. The closest you'll get is to specify the same
padding, margins, font etc as your most common browser displays when
no author styles are specified.
--
Kay Smoljak
http://kay.zombiecoder.com/
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
RE: [WSG] No style
To be honest I don't care if it takes the style of the browser, I did not want it to take the other styles defined. I am thinking I will be using an iframe, which should do the trick. Kind regards, Taco Fleur - CEO Free Call 1800 032 982 or Mobile 0421 851 786 Pacific Fox http://www.pacificfox.com.au an industry leader with commercial IT experience since 1994 . * Web Design and Development * SMS Solutions, including developer API * Domain Registration, .COM for as low as fifteen dollars a year, .COM.AU for fifty dollars two years! * BlackBerryR Business Solutions www.OzBlackBerry.com * We endorse PayPal, accept payments online now! * Seamless Merchant integration -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kay Smoljak Sent: Wednesday, 1 February 2006 1:33 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] No style On 1/31/06, Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there any way to specify in CSS that a certain area is to have no style at all. All browsers have a default style sheet, and there's differences between the default styles in different browsers, so there's no such thing as 'no style'. The closest you'll get is to specify the same padding, margins, font etc as your most common browser displays when no author styles are specified. -- Kay Smoljak http://kay.zombiecoder.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] No style
On 31/01/06, Taco Fleur - Pacific Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Is there any way to
specify in CSS that a certain area is to have no style at
all.
Let's say I have my
global style sheet where I style my ph1 etc. but on one page I
have a div with id #editableArea
I want that div to
have no style applied that is defined in the style sheet, is that
possible?
One possible solution would be not so much to have 'no style' but to
have a blanket basic style in that div. So for example, you might do
something like:
#editableArea * {
font-size: 1em;
margin: 0;
padding: 3px;
}
That would make all of the content of that div, regardless of what it
was (a p, a heading, no element, etc) adopt those same rules. It would
give you uniformity across the contents which is, I believe, what
you're looking for.
Cheers,
Seona.
Re: [WSG] 2 Q: New web site, which DTD I should use? and Compresion
Francesco wrote: So even if a site is written fully XHTML 1.0 Strict compliant, and validates as such, it is still recommended to use HTML 4.01 Strict? There is much much more to XHTML than just ensuring the pages are well-formed, validate and conforms to the XHTML recommendation, Many of the issues are solved (or at least more easily solved) by testing the pages under XML conditions, but most authors fail to do so, or even understand how. There's a list of such issues in this article. http://lachy.id.au/log/2005/12/xhtml-beginners -- Lachlan Hunt http://lachy.id.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] No style
That's still going to be 1em of whatever 1em becomes by the time you
get down to #editableArea (i.e. 1em of (x) on #editableArea of (y) on
#body of (z) on #html), isn't it?
On 2/1/06, Seona Bellamy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
One possible solution would be not so much to have 'no style' but to have a
blanket basic style in that div. So for example, you might do something
like:
#editableArea * {
font-size: 1em;
margin: 0;
padding: 3px;
}
That would make all of the content of that div, regardless of what it was
(a p, a heading, no element, etc) adopt those same rules. It would give you
uniformity across the contents which is, I believe, what you're looking for.
Cheers,
Seona.
**
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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
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[WSG] Web Standards Shetland Ponies
Hi folks, I've been on this list since returning from WE05 in Sydney last October, hoping that the same feeling of sharing and openness would prevail. It does to a certain extent, but the few glaring exceptions have tended to put me off posting to the list. Some people write as if there were a club, a them and us, people who get it and people who don't, and never the twain shall meet. I remember at WE05 Molly Holzschlag asking us what we called ourselves, and there were some very diverse answers (my favourite was the guy who does stuff). Elsewhere (on Flickr) I've seen her reminding us that lots of us are good at different aspects of what we do and together we make a good team. I'd like to think that this web standards community is a team, not a club where only some of us are truly web professionals. Cheers, Helen ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] No style
On 01/02/06, Joshua Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's still going to be 1em of whatever 1em becomes by the time youget down to #editableArea (i.e. 1em of (x) on #editableArea of (y) on#body of (z) on #html), isn't it? Hmm... good point. Might need some tweaking, but I'm not sure how.
[WSG] need help with my site
Hi. developing a disability internet database, for about 190 countries, 12 disabilities, 11 services, and in the final process of editing all the pages at the moment. things are going really well, except got a few problems. if any one can help me out, with tips, links, or code examples specific to my problems, let me know. 1. i have a contact form which i coded in html using text pad as a editor. with the form action now have the name, e-mail, subject and message fields and a submit button. now i want to redirect the users, to a thank you page, then link back to my home page, which i have all my files in a foler on the hard disck, called Frames. and a folder called Images, with all my images. now it does not redirect to my thank you page, just gives me the annoying internet message saying this transmission is unsecure, and click yes or no to continue. sorry about being long winded but had to explain. 1. now how do i get the form to redirect to my thank you page on the local machine? 2. how do i get rid of that annoying internet explorer message? now a another sect of questions: 2. how do i set my links in a style sheet to show my navigation links, left aligned, my content links, right aligned, and to have the home page link say visited, and how do i do this with div tags in html and css.? 3. for my links, do i need any colors on the links for each page, and if so, what is the link, hover, and visited in css. a newbie for doing div, and colors, being totally blind and a intermediate web designer. so if any one can help me out, e-mail me privately, and have got a zip file of my contact feedback form, and my thank you page, with graphics. cheers Marvin. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] [Fixed div elements] - Having troubles with IE
Hello WSG, I am currently building a website. It displays correctly in Fire Fox but I am having difficulties with Internet Explorer. http://www.monsterboxproductions.com/pcmedic_temp/pcmedic_temp.html The page has two fixed div elements. There is a div at the top and bottom of the page. I was previously having difficulties getting the bottom div to correctly display but I have overcome that problem. My problem is the fact that the page in Internet Explorer is not scrollable. I am not sure why and I was using tagsoup's tutorial on having fixed div elements to display properly. http://tagsoup.com/-dev/null-/css/fixed/#demos Any suggestions are appreciated. For easy of use I have added mirco buttons on the bottom the page to check validation and to view the code. I would like to give credit to http://www.slipsnisse.se/ for their Esacpe HTML coding tool http://www.slipsnisse.se/tools/coding-tools.php -Andrew Brown ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Web Standards Shetland Ponies
Good point Helen, I like that this is coming up at the beginning of the year by a few people on list. The truth is that people have been scared off the list and that's a shame when the focus here is to share information and promote standards based design and development. One of the strong points of the Web Essentials Conference last year was that everyone I spoke with commented on the real sense of community and like mindedness we all shared. People are rarely impressed by arrogance or rudeness; something to consider before you press send. And that, people, is my Oprah moment for the year! lisa -Original Message- From: Helen Morgan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 1 February 2006 12:56 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Web Standards Shetland Ponies Hi folks, I've been on this list since returning from WE05 in Sydney last October, hoping that the same feeling of sharing and openness would prevail. It does to a certain extent, but the few glaring exceptions have tended to put me off posting to the list. Some people write as if there were a club, a them and us, people who get it and people who don't, and never the twain shall meet. I remember at WE05 Molly Holzschlag asking us what we called ourselves, and there were some very diverse answers (my favourite was the guy who does stuff). Elsewhere (on Flickr) I've seen her reminding us that lots of us are good at different aspects of what we do and together we make a good team. I'd like to think that this web standards community is a team, not a club where only some of us are truly web professionals. Cheers, Helen ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] 2 Q: New web site, which DTD I should use? and Compresion
That's devious! I love it! On 2/1/06, Joshua Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've found that the BEST way to make developers co-operate is to quietly put a bit of PHP in the header to serve application/xhtml+xml to browsers that support it, then watch them scratch their heads as previously-not-quite-well-formed pages that were parsed as soup -- Kay Smoljak http://kay.zombiecoder.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Web Standards Shetland Ponies
Hi there, I've been on this list since returning from WE05 in Sydney last October, hoping that the same feeling of sharing and openness would prevail. It does to a certain extent, but the few glaring exceptions have tended to put me off posting to the list. I doubt an email list could ever quite reproduce WE05 :) Some people write as if there were a club, a them and us, people who get it and people who don't, and never the twain shall meet. There are plenty out there that feel it's us and them, those meddling standards people so occasionally people display a bit of a bunkered mentality. I think people are really taking exception to developers who *know* about standards, but are actively hostile to anyone who wants to use them. I remember at WE05 Molly Holzschlag asking us what we called ourselves, and there were some very diverse answers (my favourite was the guy who does stuff). Elsewhere (on Flickr) I've seen her reminding us that lots of us are good at different aspects of what we do and together we make a good team. I'd like to think that this web standards community is a team, not a club where only some of us are truly web professionals. That's true and it was a wonderful keynote (I'm web standards developer ;)), but a few weeks later Molly also reminded us that web developers have to be open to learning new things - http://www.molly.com/2005/11/14/web-standards-and-the-new-professionalism/ It's a balance, I guess. We can't be too passive or nothing gets done; we can't be too aggressive or people just bunker up. cheers, h -- --- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Sitecheck: 7 Sunrise Family website [sunrisefamily.com.au]
Joshua wrote: Launched a website [ http://yahoo7.com.au/sunrise/family/ ] and the BIGGEST problem (so far as I'm concerned) is with Firefox 1.0.x on the Meet the Family page [http://sunrisefamily.com.au/current/content/meet/ ] I cant replicate it here using firefox 1.0.2 and win xp. you may have fixed it..? i think the design is awesome. a really stunning overall look - so pass on the congrats there. and you're coding looks like youve bent over backwards to retain the really tight visual treatment. awesome stuff. another high profile site gets some serious quality applied. bravo! :) the *only* thing i could find of any decent feedback (i, like many others on this list lurk in the shadows unless i have something to add :) is that the yahoo logo uses a transparent background to sit on that black background, and the logo is reversed out as white. the result when printing is a white yahoo logo on white paper complete with jaggies. or seen here: (http://au.i1.yimg.com/au.yimg.com/i/mh/2/y7mh_def_1blkbg_2.gif). why not lose the transparency just sit it on a black background? then it'll print out as intended while still displaying fine on the site. my .075 cents worth, really only as an excuse to say awesome work :) ~~~ Peter Ottery ~ Creative Director Daemon Pty Ltd 17 Roslyn Gardens Elizabeth Bay NSW 2011 Web: www.daemon.com.au ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Sitecheck: 7 Sunrise Family website [sunrisefamily.com.au]
On 2/1/06, Peter Ottery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I cant replicate it here using firefox 1.0.2 and win xp. you may have fixed it..? Nope, but it occurs less frequently on FF1.0.x/XP than on other OSs, and I've only actually looked at it in Firefox 1.0.7 in XP (I figured it'd be relatively consistent post 1.0, and I was testing on 1.0.4 on a Linux system, and 1.0.[something else] on a Mac!). It's possible it's just a 1.0.7 thing I guess. No one has passed on anything from the contact form, so if people are seeing the problem they're not saying anything/realising there is one. Mind you, from the first day's stats only 1.7% of users would be using Firefox 1.0.7, and probably 95% of those on Windows XP, so it's a pretty narrow segment of the audience affected. i think the design is awesome. a really stunning overall look - so pass on the congrats there. and you're coding looks like youve bent over backwards to retain the really tight visual treatment. awesome stuff. another high profile site gets some serious quality applied. bravo! :) Thanks :) Passed on your design compliments, too :) the *only* thing i could find of any decent feedback (i, like many others on this list lurk in the shadows unless i have something to add :) is that the yahoo logo uses a transparent background to sit on that black background, and the logo is reversed out as white. the result when printing is a white yahoo logo on white paper complete with jaggies. or seen here: (http://au.i1.yimg.com/au.yimg.com/i/mh/2/y7mh_def_1blkbg_2.gif). why not lose the transparency just sit it on a black background? then it'll print out as intended while still displaying fine on the site. Ah. I'd actually written + tested the print stylesheet then Yahoo!7 changed the universal nav on us at the last minute, so that one slipped through. It probably doesn't even need to print (certainly would be my preference), but if the Powers That Be want it retained (I don't think anyone at 7 has even noticed there's a print stylesheet :P) then I'll probably just do a version with a clearer black outline as a PNG. I should have picked this up when testing things un-styled, but didn't... the Yahoo! bar is at the bottom of source so that anyone without styles doesn't have to scroll past (or read past, or whatever) every new page. Thanks for your feedback :-) Josh ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: Moral High-horse - was Re: [WSG] Failed Redesign and the Media
On 1/31/06, Lachlan Hardy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I also appreciate that changing 6 or 8 or 10 years of coding practice and philosophy of web development is incredibly difficult Just wanted to come back to this... Let's not defend the hermit. If your practice has not changed in 6 years, that's not good. Sure, it's hard to change something that hasn't changed in 6 years, but nothing should be so solid in the first place. And if your habits haven't changed in 10 years, then would you even be making any money? Isn't the web only 12 years old? -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] list's with header text
On 31/01/2006, at 10:54 PM, Patrick Lauke wrote: It's not really a scalable solution, IMHO. Possibly true, but it doesn't make the concept entirely useless. As someone already mentioned, the source order should be enough to inform what the heading refers to, without the need for explicit association. Generally, yes. Its certainly what I use ATM. I guess we're all just looking for that magic bullet :) Lea -- Lea de Groot Brisbane, Australia ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: Moral High-horse - was Re: [WSG] Failed Redesign and the Medi a
-Original Message- From: Christian Montoya [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 1 February 2006 5:22 PM On 1/31/06, Lachlan Hardy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I also appreciate that changing 6 or 8 or 10 years of coding practice and philosophy of web development is incredibly difficult Just wanted to come back to this... Let's not defend the hermit. If your practice has not changed in 6 years, that's not good. Sure, it's hard to change something that hasn't changed in 6 years, but nothing should be so solid in the first place. And if your habits haven't changed in 10 years, then would you even be making any money? Isn't the web only 12 years old? Christian, Let's not go here. Let's just keep this positive? Just do the best you can, focus on doing good work and spreading the word. There's no need to judge people. Everyone has a choice to work the way they want to. It may not be the best, or your way, but you don't know their reasons and they may be trying their best. If not, at least it's less competition for you! :) Cheers / Lisa ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: Moral High-horse - was Re: [WSG] Failed Redesign and the Media
On 2/1/06, Christian Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And if your habits haven't changed in 10 years, then would you even be making any money? Isn't the web only 12 years old? Another thing to remember is that not everyone in web publishing has any financial incentive whatsoever. We're also trying to change the way non-professional web publishers think about the media they're creating/the means by which they are creating it, so the how are you making money doing THAT? argument for being generally dismissive of non-web-standardites is something to be avoided. -- Joshua Street http://www.joahua.com/ +61 (0) 425 808 469 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: Moral High-horse - was Re: [WSG] Failed Redesign and the Media
Hi folks Can someone pleeese just put this thread to its death? There are much more important things going on in this list...this is a waste of space... I agree with Lisa, keep it positive folks... ray At 05:21 PM 1/02/2006, you wrote: On 1/31/06, Lachlan Hardy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I also appreciate that changing 6 or 8 or 10 years of coding practice and philosophy of web development is incredibly difficult Just wanted to come back to this... Let's not defend the hermit. If your practice has not changed in 6 years, that's not good. Sure, it's hard to change something that hasn't changed in 6 years, but nothing should be so solid in the first place. And if your habits haven't changed in 10 years, then would you even be making any money? Isn't the web only 12 years old? -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** Best Regards Ray Cauchi Manager/Lead Developer ( T W E E K ! ) PO Box 15 Wentworth Falls NSW Australia 2782 | p:+61 2 4757 1600 | f: +61 2 4757 3808 | m: 0414 270 400 | e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | w: http://www.tweek.com.au
RE: [WSG] [Fixed div elements] - Having troubles with IE
Hey Grant, I changed the doctype to strict locally and still the scrollbar does appear. I also already have those additional tags added. Do you know of a website that has enough content that scrolls and has div banners such as mine only done in css? I cannot say I have saw many that do. I am still on top of this. Thanks for the link Grant :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Focas, Grant Sent: February 1, 2006 12:58 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] [Fixed div elements] - Having troubles with IE IE (up to IE6) does not recognise position:fixed. Try something like http://web.tampabay.rr.com/bmerkey/examples/fake-position-fixed.html Cheers, Grant -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Brown Sent: Wednesday, 1 February 2006 02:56 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] [Fixed div elements] - Having troubles with IE Hello WSG, I am currently building a website. It displays correctly in Fire Fox but I am having difficulties with Internet Explorer. http://www.monsterboxproductions.com/pcmedic_temp/pcmedic_temp.html The page has two fixed div elements. There is a div at the top and bottom of the page. I was previously having difficulties getting the bottom div to correctly display but I have overcome that problem. My problem is the fact that the page in Internet Explorer is not scrollable. I am not sure why and I was using tagsoup's tutorial on having fixed div elements to display properly. http://tagsoup.com/-dev/null-/css/fixed/#demos Any suggestions are appreciated. For easy of use I have added mirco buttons on the bottom the page to check validation and to view the code. I would like to give credit to http://www.slipsnisse.se/ for their Esacpe HTML coding tool http://www.slipsnisse.se/tools/coding-tools.php -Andrew Brown ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** This message is intended for the addressee named and may contain privileged information or confidential information or both. If you are not the intended recipient please delete it and notify the sender. ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: ADMIN Moral High-horse - was Re: [WSG] Failed Redesign and the Media
On 01/02/2006, at 4:54 PM, Ray Cauchi wrote: Can someone pleeese just put this thread to its death? There are much more important things going on in this list...this is a waste of space... No, its important that we define what behaviour is correct and acceptable in the community we are building. But, at the same time, I think we've wrung all the value out of this one - the thread's not closed, but 'me toos' won't add any value. Be sure you are offering something new before you bother... default to 'I shouldn't bother' warmly, Lea -- Lea de Groot, Admin hat tilted jauntily Core Group Member ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] [Fixed div elements] - Having troubles with IE
G'day Andrew Brown wrote: I changed the doctype to strict locally and still the scrollbar does appear. I also already have those additional tags added. Do you know of a website that has enough content that scrolls and has div banners such as mine only done in css? I cannot say I have saw many that do. I am still on top of this. Kinda like www.sure-kleen.com ? Don't ask me how I did it - I forgot. But if it does what you want, feel free to reverse-engineer. Regards -- Bert Doorn, Better Web Design http://www.betterwebdesign.com.au/ Fast-loading, user-friendly websites ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
