[WSG] Site Review (www.richardson.co.nz)
G'day all, I've decided to make the jump from full time web development to freelance work. Mostly front end development, (X)HTML/CSS/JavaScript development etc. Anyway, to support myself, I've created a portfolio here: www.richardson.co.nz I just want to make sure I haven't missed anything obvious with the build phase of things. If you've all got time to have a look at the code/design and give me some feedback that would be fantastic. It's somewhat off topic but I don't think my copy writing is too hot, if anyone has some suggestions on how to present myself better then I'd love to hear them. I'm going to be dealing strictly with design companies rather then the public so I've tried to keep thing short. Thanks heaps! -- Samuel Richardson Freelance Web Developer www.richardson.co.nz | 0405 472 748 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Site Review (www.richardson.co.nz)
Cool, thanks for the comments. It sounds like I still have a few cross browser issues to work out, lucky I just bought a Mac :D The portfolio is strictly for design agencies to get an idea of what I can do rather then the public. I went with a one page design to get the content across quickly, I didn't feel the site warranted multiple pages with such little content. I'll proof the content a bit more, that was one area I'm a little unsure on. Thanks, Samuel On 5/28/07, Mary-Anne Nayler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Sam, It looks great but there are lots of grammar errors. I also noticed that in your CV you seem to be missing employment details on your current position? When I scrolled down to where you have rated your skills there is a scrollbar thing happening that looks ugly and obscures some of the text. (I'm using Mozilla 1.7.2) Also, I think if I didn't work in Web dev, I wouldn't understand what all that meant... if I was a customer I'd want to know what is ASP, PHP etc and what can it do for me and my web site? Cheers, Mary-Anne Samuel Richardson wrote, On 28/05/07 11:05 AM: G'day all, I've decided to make the jump from full time web development to freelance work. Mostly front end development, (X)HTML/CSS/JavaScript development etc. Anyway, to support myself, I've created a portfolio here: www.richardson.co.nz I just want to make sure I haven't missed anything obvious with the build phase of things. If you've all got time to have a look at the code/design and give me some feedback that would be fantastic. It's somewhat off topic but I don't think my copy writing is too hot, if anyone has some suggestions on how to present myself better then I'd love to hear them. I'm going to be dealing strictly with design companies rather then the public so I've tried to keep thing short. Thanks heaps! -- ~ Mary-Anne Nayler Department of Defence Australia [EMAIL PROTECTED] +61 2 6127 5327 ~ ~ ~ ~ *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** -- Samuel Richardson Freelance Web Developer www.richardson.co.nz | 0405 472 748 *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Browser Check with Firefox 1.5
Hi all, I've noticed a problem on our website when rendering pages with Firefox 1.5 (and possibly lower). If you have Firefox 1.5 installed could you please take a look at the following page: http://www.intrepidtravel.com/africatrees And let me know if the main content area renders with a black background. Has anybody encountered this rendering bug before? I think it might be related to the size of the background image being used in that content field. It's only occurring when using Firefox 1.5 (and possibly lower), Firefox 2.0 renders that pages fine. -- Samuel Richardson 0405 472 748 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] colour matching transparent png files
With a little bit of use of the propriety DXImageTransform filter you can get by using alpha transparent PNGs in IE6 fairly safely. There is some strange behaviour when using the in repeating background images and with links on them, however both can be fixed (there are various articles out there on the net on how to do this) IE7 has native support for them so I'm starting to utilise them more while still providing backwards compatibility by using the filter hack above. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of twe melb Sent: Wednesday, 11 April 2007 2:06 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] colour matching transparent png files As far as i know png alpha transparency does not work well in IE 5.5 and 6, it seems to only works in firefox, JavaScript must be use to fix this problem. check out this site, it might be of help to you http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bobosola/pnghowto.htm, i tend to avoid the use of png as it is not cross browser compatible, i uses gif instead. regard, Tan Le On 4/11/07, dwain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 10 April 2007 22:13, Andrew Harris wrote: I specify the page background to #003366 In photoshop I specify the starting blue of the vignette to #003366 I also create a 20px square of #003366, set the opacity to 50% and save out a png24 with transparency save it to a png8 and you should be ok. -- Dwain Alford P.O. Box 145 Winfield, Alabama 35594 telephone: 205.487.2570 cellphone: 205.495.5619 The artist may use any form which his expression demands; for his inner impulse must find suitable expression. Wassily Kandinsky, Concerning The Spiritual In Art *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
[WSG] Work from the outside in or the inside out?
When working on a Photoshop mock up of the site, do you normally work from the outside in (build the surrounding framework, perhaps centre the site then start at the top of the page working down) or build from the inside out (get each individual element on the page built then slot them into the final layout when you've got to it) Does this make sense? :D I'm curious because I always started from the outside, and worked down from the top of the page but I've recently tried building the opposite way, starting with the small elements on the page and getting them working so they expand to fill the container they're placed into, it seems to make the final layout much more flexible because each element of the design is usually modular and independent. -- Samuel Richardson 0405 472 748 - [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: ~~~SPAM~~~ Re: [WSG] Simple to use page layout 'tool' ?
I can assure you that wire frames for layouts are used in nearly every design studio that I've worked in. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael MD Sent: Wednesday, 14 March 2007 10:28 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: ~~~SPAM~~~ Re: [WSG] Simple to use page layout 'tool' ? At my company, the business groups often use Visio to produce the wireframes that the design groups then work toward. They also use Powerpoint to produce light specs. I can't say I am fond of these tools from a web development perspective, but they do allow those not familiar with the web to quickly produce wireframes that can be easily manipulated and toyed with. There is the added benefit that many business folks are already familiar with these programs. I've never seen any such tools used for this... maybe that happens only in the rarified atmopshere of large corporations or government departments... ...wirefames? ... only ever seen that in animation programs... ...maybe someone's been watching too many movies? ...doesn't sound at all like the real world Never even seen Visio.. and don't have a clue what it actually does. Just did a Google search on it and ended up at a page about Microsoft Office... I guess this is something new they just released . .. but I can't quickly figure out from that page what it actually does! ...but if there is any tool in existance that could help a non-technical person describe to me what they want more clearly I'd like to know about it! (but if the language it uses is business-speak then I'm still going to have trouble understanding it :-) It would be nice to have something better to go on than what we usually get in the real world eg a photoshop image and being told to do something like that (I'm a developer not a visual designer - I need some idea what they want it to do!) or (the most common scenario) ... a very vague verbal description from someone who isn't actually sure of what they want! .. *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
RE: [WSG] Global and page-specific style sheets
I don't have a problem with it, in fact the site I'm working on at the moment has 30 separate style sheets. However, remember that every style sheet will be a separate HTTP connection to retrieve it, so no matter how fast someone's connection is, they still have to make multiple HTTP requests to download all the documents, thus slowing down the site. Once the style sheets are cached then this delay will be reduced. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cole Kuryakin Sent: Tuesday, 13 March 2007 3:01 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] Global and page-specific style sheets Hello All - I've got a site that has a fairly MASSIVE style sheet. It's quite long as the design spec dictates a number of different pages be layed-out differently. Accordingly, its becoming quite tedious to find certain style blocks that need to be altered/tweaked as development continues. So, I'm beginning to think that the better way to accomplish this is to attach a global sheet in the head that would take care of all generic issues and page requirements. Then, in those pages that need special handling I would attached separate sheets that would address page-specific requirements. BTW: This site is a dynamic one (php) so these special-case pages are included depending on query-string variables/conditions. What do the good folks say here about this particular topic? Is this a normal (and preferred) workflow when one has to deal with long and unwieldy style sheets? Are there any best practice guidelines for such an issue? Cole *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** *** List Guidelines: http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm Unsubscribe: http://webstandardsgroup.org/join/unsubscribe.cfm Help: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ***
Re: [WSG] Re: Website Directory Structure - Best Practice
Bar some sort of major life extension technology then it'll be someone elses problem :D Lachlan Hunt wrote: Richard Czeiger wrote: For example Latest Mars News for NASA, might be better served with havng an index page with a linked archive of static URLs, or permalinks for latest articles (like /mars/news/060320.html). I fully agree with what you're saying, but just have one minor issue. Dates in file names should always use 4 digit years (or more after y10k). I'm sure you all remember the y2k bug, let's not suffer again with a y2.1k bug. It's best practice to use ISO-8601 dates (with or without the hyphen), especially in file names and it has the advantage that sorting by name also sorts by date. e.g. /mars/news/2006-03-20 Or maybe: /mars/2006/03/20/article-title ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] broken sprite - very odd ie6 thing
Man, sprites, I haven't heard that since I used to program for the Commodore 65. Have you got any sort of image resizing going on in the HTML? The image is getting slightly distorted correct? Samuel Ted Drake wrote: Hi All I love using sprites, but I've never seen this happen before. I've got a sprite that looks like this + + Only imagine the top plus is a different shade so that when you hover, it shifts and changes color. Simple enough. Only, in IE6, it looks like this in the link _ _ |_ _| _||_ _||_ Instead of +link Has anyone seen this before? I don't know why it is showing such odd behavior with the background image. There's another link in the list with a similarly broken arrow and another with a perfectly fine printer sprite. Ted Drake Front-end Engineer Yahoo! Tech ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Question of CSS specificity
table.module will only apply the style to a table with class=module on it. .module will apply the style regardless of what element the class is on. a.contentpagetitle:link will apply the style to any a tags with a .contentpagetitle class on them that is a link. .contentpagetitle a:link will apply the style to any elements INSIDE .contentpagetitle that are a link. Barrie North wrote: Hi all, I need some help, what is the difference between: table.module and .module Is table.module just more specific or is there more going on? Similar question between: a.contentpagetitle:link and .contentpagetitle a:link Thanks in advance, Barrie North www.compassdesigns.net http://www.compassdesigns.net/ www.joomlashack.com http://www.joomlashack.com/ (802) 428-4146 Skype:compassdesign ~Professional Joomla Web Design~ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] just sharing the frustration
Depending on which version of word your running (I'm on 2003) you can save a word document as web page, filtered (this then filters out most of the word specific HTML), I'm sure a few smart find and replaces could then clean up/add any code that is not needed or missing. Otherwise you could export the document as a regular web page and use dreamweavers clean up word HTML function to remove the extra crap. I'm not sure how effective it is. In either case, I'm sure you could have saved your valentines day? Samuel Zulema wrote: Hello fellow ponies, I just wanted to share my frustration with having to work late on valentine's day contextualizing copy from a Word doc into html with nested lists galore[1]. Took me about five hours and I might have missed a few. [1] http://test.slackbarshinger.com/pei2006/exhibitor/rules_regulations.html Plus, the web site is far from being completed as I am missing flash mastheads, flash nav, and just about all other images which I'm getting Thursday, when the web site is due Tuesday (no biggie right?). *sigh* I know everyone's been through this before and some of you are prolly thinking, that's nothing! why on my /birthday/, I had to But anyhow, to everyone: I hug u. working hard on valentine's day, Zulema ps: thankfully I'm walking outta here in half an hour come heck or high water! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: Recall: [WSG] Web design education
It's an Outlook feature to recall emails once they've been sent, only useful if everyone in your organisation is running Outlook though. Terrence Wood wrote: Herrod, Lisa wrote: Herrod, Lisa would like to recall the message, [WSG] Web design education. What does that mean and where does it come from? Someone else sent me one of those recently. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] suckerfish menu and position:relative woes
Pete, have you tried setting the z-index on them? Peter Ottery wrote: hiya, i dont like flyout menus as much as the next guy/girl but i have a situation that requires them, so i'm using the son of suckerfish menu [1]. i'm having a problem with adding position:relative to items below the menu, and those elements appearing on top of the flyout menus in IE. i've whipped up a barebones example with further explanation here: http://skunkworks.farcrycms.com/pot/temp/test.html the css js is wihtin the head of that page to allow easy copy pasting. as that page details, anyone got a tip that allows me to keep position:relative on that box but keeps the flyout menus on top (when they flyout) ? any help appreciated, cheers , pete [1] = http://www.htmldog.com/articles/suckerfish/dropdowns/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] suckerfish menu and position:relative woes
I see you set a -1 z-index, what happens if you set say 10 and 100? (Are negatives supported in the z-index?) Peter Ottery wrote: Samuel wrote: have you tried setting the z-index on them? yeah, tried all sorts of z-index combinations (that i could think of) but still cant get it working. theres a short note at the bottom of that example page i put together... ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] cool FAQ page [follow up]
Just because a large subset of your users don't use a particular function on your web browser is not a good justification to disable its use. If a larger number of your users are skimming the headlines then clicking to find more details about a particular entry then post a series of anchor links at the top of the page that jump down to the required content. This is a: a fairly standard way of doing FAQs on the web and b: doesn't stop various browser features from working. WINTER-GILES,Ben wrote: I'd have to challenge the statement about users normally using the browsers find feature. The majority of users that I have (or had rather) to accommodate for, didn't even know that their browser had a find feature. Instead preferring to use scroll and skim behaviours to locate information. Not wanting to debunk what you were saying, of course, but I think it would be less than complete to band everyone into the group that actually know that Ctl+F finds things within a page. The most recent iteration of FAQ's that we implemented had toggles delivered via css / div. but that said, we also included a find / search field to help expose what was hidden. Additionally we used a well versed information architect to review our headings and ensure we were using appropriate terminology to head up each FAQ. Feedback on that implementation was generally positive. That said the target user group was internal, and 40+ female administrative / data worker from a mainframe background and NOT the general public. I have not located detailed ebehavior reports addressing the find option within the more global public. Does anyone have this data? Ben Winter-Giles Interface Design Manager DEWR.gov.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of R Walker (RMW Web Publishing) Sent: Tuesday, 7 February 2006 12:25 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] cool FAQ page [follow up] A big reason for not using toggles for FAQs we found was the inability to use the browsers find (Find in this page) feature. Often the reason for using toggles is that the page's content is quite large. Users would normally us their browsers find feature to jump to a keyword they are looking for. If that search result is in a hidden element the browser will not show it - making the page less usable. Also it is helpful to use anchors on each Q A (esp. if you have Customer Service Reps directing users to the page). To make the page more useful, you could allow for bookmarks and emailed URLs to expand an answer by checking the URL 'hash' for the related question. -- Rowan Walker RMW Web Publishing http://www.rmwpublishing.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** Notice: The information contained in this e-mail message and any attached files may be confidential information, and may also be the subject of legal professional privilege. If you are not the intended recipient any use, disclosure or copying of this e-mail is unauthorised. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete all copies of this transmission together with any attachments. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] DIV Target
It sounds like you want an iframe (like a browser window) embedded in the page that then has its location controlled by external links/buttons/whatever. In that case a href=iframecontentpage.htm target=iframeLink/a Where target is the id attribute of the iframe that you created earlier in the page and href is the page you want it to load. Samuel blqberi wrote: Thanks for your help everyone... I guess what I am trying to do is replicate the whole iframes thing using div tags - where I have various content load within a certain section of my page an, if I'm making any sense. (I'm also trying to convince a friend to do table-less designs, and that is one point I need to show him... but wasn't sure how to do it). If that doesn't make much sense I apologize.. my head is all over the place right now which is not a good thing. Thanks again. - Original Message - *From:* Christian Montoya mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org mailto:wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Sent:* Sunday, February 05, 2006 6:55 PM *Subject:* Re: [WSG] DIV Target No, Kerry wanted something Javascript related, like what Samuel mentioned. There are a couple options. One is you could load content that's hidden, but is still on the page. The other is getting content from the server when it's requested. The second is harder than the first. What exactly are you trying to do? A more specific idea will help listers point you to an exact solution. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] cool FAQ page [follow up]
Replies in body, And if the toggles are done correctly I understand that the find functions will still behave correctly, because the headings will have appropriate key words in them anyway. Presuming of course you have them written descriptively. Your effectively disabling it because it is either going to highlight the hidden content inside the div (where you won't be able to see it) or ignore that completely, either way you can't effectively search on the content that is hidden, only the headers. One could also argue (for the sake of it) that if your toggled page extends so far as to warrant a large anchor listing at the top of the page, perhaps the information segmentation is not quite up to scratch either. To me, the core of this discussion revolves around there not being one way to skin the cat here. (apologies to any cat owners) Which simply reinforces the case for web standards that are constructed in a modular fashion to facilitate delivery of information in varied formats to accommodate for the intended user groups. Zah? I thought this was about showing/hiding content within divs. Not matter how well written your content/headings whatever, you shouldn't disable parts of the browser interface. I've read that sentence above about three times and I can't understand it. Samuel ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] DIV Target
I'll just add a bit more to this: If you want to load entire web pages embedded into the current page you will have to use the iframe, if just want to change simple text/html within a div then you will have to use the innerhtml property (or use this method that came up on delicious this morning: http://slayeroffice.com/articles/innerHTML_alternatives/) Samuel Richardson wrote: It sounds like you want an iframe (like a browser window) embedded in the page that then has its location controlled by external links/buttons/whatever. In that case a href=iframecontentpage.htm target=iframeLink/a Where target is the id attribute of the iframe that you created earlier in the page and href is the page you want it to load. Samuel blqberi wrote: Thanks for your help everyone... I guess what I am trying to do is replicate the whole iframes thing using div tags - where I have various content load within a certain section of my page an, if I'm making any sense. (I'm also trying to convince a friend to do table-less designs, and that is one point I need to show him... but wasn't sure how to do it). If that doesn't make much sense I apologize.. my head is all over the place right now which is not a good thing. Thanks again. - Original Message - *From:* Christian Montoya mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* wsg@webstandardsgroup.org mailto:wsg@webstandardsgroup.org *Sent:* Sunday, February 05, 2006 6:55 PM *Subject:* Re: [WSG] DIV Target No, Kerry wanted something Javascript related, like what Samuel mentioned. There are a couple options. One is you could load content that's hidden, but is still on the page. The other is getting content from the server when it's requested. The second is harder than the first. What exactly are you trying to do? A more specific idea will help listers point you to an exact solution. -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] html tables and formatting help needed
Can you point us towards an example page? marvin hunkin wrote: Hi. doing a star trek page, or updated it. now need your help, if any html gurus out there. now my main problem with my page, for the four recent series of star trek from 1987, got the cast with the actors name and part, but for some reason, the two headings, would like side by side, but under each other. the same when i read line by line, the actor name and the part, is on two lines, would like to have this info side by side on each line. have created tables, and padding, etc. so if any one has come across this problem, then let me know asap. cheers Marvin. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Failed Redesign and the Media
Have a look at the Clear Blue Day site with flash disabled: http://www.richardson.co.nz/cbd.gif That's some quality web designing there alright! heretic wrote: My question is: is web-standards really considered a part of the professionalism of web people considering that even the IT media (AustralianIT) ignores this aspect? Well, yes. The IT Media really haven't caught on to standards. That doesn't mean web professionals haven't, or shouldn't. I'd also point out that checking your facts is part of being a professional journalist, yet this article is basically just a big promo for Sunbeam and Clear Blue Day. Dodgy reporting? Yes. Someone got shmoozed. There are no unbiased/third party/contrasting views included; about the only negatives reported were brushed over. The fact that the project ran to double the projected timeframe and might be hard to keep up to date suggests they had some serious scope creep and now have a huge, high-maintenance monster to keep up with - great if they manage it, a disaster if not. I wonder how much traffic the Sunbeam site is getting at the moment, I hope for their sake it's being pummelled. Otherwise, they have some *serious* server response time issues. I'm pretty sure Sunbeam's new site has actually been up for a few weeks; since it looked the same when I was stuck using it a few weeks ago (researching espresso machines). My fiance got utterly frustrated with it, since you can't just get a list of espresso machines. You have to click through endless mixers which happen to be included in the cafe series. We actually bought a sunbeam, but it was *in spite* of their website. h -- --- http://weblog.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] No Helpdesk software based on webstandards?
If it's for internal use then you must have a fairly standard platform for it to run on (I'm guessing windows 2000 or XP machines with IE6) in that case web standards would be a fairly low priority as you have such a common interface to work with. Samuel http://www.seasonstravel.com.au Sander van Dragt wrote: Hello list, For the college I am working for I am looking for new helpdesk software for internal use on the college intranet. However I am unable to find any solution that's based on webstandards, the code on all software that we've come across is horribly and I would spent too much time cleaning up everything to consider it. Google search for 'helpdesk webstandards' doesn't turn up anything either, it seems the helpdesk software creators live seperated from the webstandards. Therefore as a last resort I was hoping perhaps one of the people here would have some experience of the software I look for. Preferably it could be based on IIS, ASP, SQL Server but alternatives will be considered, seeing as there aren't many contenders. -- Best regards, Sander van Dragt ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] No Helpdesk software based on webstandards?
Your confusing web accessibility with web standards, a page can be valid XHTML while not being accessible, likewise this works in reverse. You are joking of course? What about *employees* present or future with disabilities? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Div Float Problem
Just having a bit of a problem with floats and divs.
Have a look at:
http://www.richardson.co.nz/div_problem.gif
Which shows what I'm trying to do.
Why does IE change the behavior of the float when a height is set on the
right hand column? (I'm using a standards column layout, e.g.
#sidebar
{
float : left;
width : 200px;
}
#content
{
margin-left : 200px;
}
It's when I apply a height to that #content column does it show that
different behavior. Any ideas on what I could do to make ie work like
Firefox in this case?
Samuel
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Re: [WSG] Dropped DIV dilemma
I've found the majority of IE hacks can be avoided by nesting padded boxes inside boxes with widths rather then trying to combine them, it does create extra markup but it is easier to read and understand if you or someone else has to make changes later. The only IE bug I seem to run into regularly now is the extra 3px float gap (when a float : left; sidebar and margin-lefted content to create the illusion of a dual column layout pushes the content div over and extra 3px from what is specified in the margin-left) this actually one of the more common reasons for a float drop in IE when you have pixel perfect layouts. I've also seen an alternative to the div style=clear : both; / method of doing columns, I think it involved overflows set on your floated divs, I could dig it up for you if you want to have a look at it but like most new CSS hacks it often interferes with other things on the page. It's always been my experience that it is better to have extra markup on your page that avoids the need to use hacks, sure your page size will be a bit bigger but your code will be easier to read and you'll avoid the need to pile hacks upon hacks to get your page to look correct. Paul Noone wrote: Thanks Samuel. I'd actually considered the fixes quite minimal. Apart from a couple of IE hacks, the only 'fix' in place is the mighty clearfix class for float clearing. If you have any suggestions on how the CSS can be minimised I'd be very grateful if you'd share them. Almost everything I know about CSS can be attributed to positive feedback from this list. -- Paul A Noone Webmaster, ASHM [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Samuel Richardson Sent: Tuesday, 20 December 2005 4:24 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Dropped DIV dilemma If you have to have that many fixes in place for a page that is that simple then your doing something wrong. Paul Noone wrote: Cheers all. I know there's a lot to wde through but most of the fixes, widths and relative positions in place were put in to fix other problems in the first instance. As you say, getting rid of the clearfix solves that particular problem but causes others. Definitely a clearing problem then. What's bugging me is that it was all working just fine until recently. Now...what the hell did I change? Will keep slogging away at it. I've closed the input tags and all validates again. Thanks. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bert Doorn Sent: Tuesday, 20 December 2005 3:49 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Dropped DIV dilemma Paul Noone wrote: Problem: http://d81314.i50.quadrahosting.com.au/index.php?module=Newsid=cntnt0 1cntn t01action=detailcntnt01articleid=8cntnt01returnid=11 The Site Updates div gets pushed way down the page. And I've got no idea why/ Strangely all is well in IE (with all the hacks in place I'd hope so!). There's a lot of css to wade through, but as far as I can tell, your clearfix class is the cause of the problem. Removing that class (in Firefox dev toolbar, to test my theory) stops it dropping down, although it causes problems elsewhere. With so many divs, classes and id's that's about the only thing I can figure out. Regards -- Bert Doorn, Better Web Design http://www.betterwebdesign.com.au/ Fast-loading, user-friendly websites ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Setting Up Font Sizes
What's the best, cross-browser supported way to setup font sizes in CSS
documents?
I've been using
body
{
font-size .8em;
}
then
p
{
font-size : 90%; (adjust per design to get the correct sizes etc)
}
the problem I've found with this is that I'll sometimes set a 90% on a
td element (or something similar), then if I place a p tag inside the
td it gets reduced by two lots of 90%, so then I wind up setting
td, p
{
font-size : 110%;
}
to counteract that, as you can imagine things quickly become a mess of
font-sizes going up and down to counteract each other. Is their a better
method of looking after this?
Samuel
http://www.geminidevelopment.com.au | http://www.seasonstravel.com.au
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Re: [WSG] to many links, was narrowing the gap
What are you serving that site off? a 14.4k modem?
The site looks like it should be broken into sections anyway, you've
dedicated half the front page to navigation which is far too much, and
far too intimidating. I would break the site into those top level
headings (childcare, personal help support), with the current sub
links under those. If they want a further level under that then add them
to the new top level heading homepages above.
Then to appease the client, offer to build a sitemap page (which is good
for SEO anyway) that contains all the links to all the sections of the
site at once, dedicate the entire page layout to this (like a tree
layout). Make the link to that sitemap quite prominent.
After writing all this out the site is still loading(!)
Samuel
kvnmcwebn wrote:
The change below worked for me.
.mainleft ul {
margin-top: 0px;
thanks paul that simplifies it,
also
i always get stuck with these crazy navition schemes.
The client signed of on this layout with different content then came back
with loads more
subcategory links then he had originally. Its almost overwhelming, i think
that another level of navigation might be called for, that is- categories to
sub categories with a location filter as well. I dont want to use drop
downs.
Anyone have anythoughts on this?
example html
http://www.mcmonagle.biz/mockup/final6.htm
css
http://www.mcmonagle.biz/mockup/index3.css
http://www.mcmonagle.biz/mockup/nav.css
-best
kvncwebn
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Re: [WSG] Dropped DIV dilemma
Fix your validation to start with, that might help narrow it down a bit, might be missing a close tag or something.. Paul Noone wrote: Problem: http://d81314.i50.quadrahosting.com.au/index.php?module=Newsid=cntnt01cntn t01action=detailcntnt01articleid=8cntnt01returnid=11 The Site Updates div gets pushed way down the page. And I've got no idea why/ Strangely all is well in IE (with all the hacks in place I'd hope so!). This looks like a float/clearnace problem to me but I can't seem to nail it. I've spent too much time on this problem already by hacking away in FF's live CSS window but to no avail. Which leadds me to think the problem may be in the structure. If anyone would like to cast a fresh set of eyes over it I'd appreciate it. -- Paul A Noone Webmaster, ASHM [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Dropped DIV dilemma
Why are you declaring position : relative; on regular divs (that should already be set to that?) Same with max-width : 100% on the #pagewidth, lots of unneeded styles here. I can't see exactly what it is off the top of my head, my advice would be to pull the widths and floats off the div's then rebuild them one by one and see if you can fix it that way. Samuel Paul Noone wrote: Problem: http://d81314.i50.quadrahosting.com.au/index.php?module=Newsid=cntnt01cntn t01action=detailcntnt01articleid=8cntnt01returnid=11 The Site Updates div gets pushed way down the page. And I've got no idea why/ Strangely all is well in IE (with all the hacks in place I'd hope so!). This looks like a float/clearnace problem to me but I can't seem to nail it. I've spent too much time on this problem already by hacking away in FF's live CSS window but to no avail. Which leadds me to think the problem may be in the structure. If anyone would like to cast a fresh set of eyes over it I'd appreciate it. -- Paul A Noone Webmaster, ASHM [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Dropped DIV dilemma
If you have to have that many fixes in place for a page that is that simple then your doing something wrong. Paul Noone wrote: Cheers all. I know there's a lot to wde through but most of the fixes, widths and relative positions in place were put in to fix other problems in the first instance. As you say, getting rid of the clearfix solves that particular problem but causes others. Definitely a clearing problem then. What's bugging me is that it was all working just fine until recently. Now...what the hell did I change? Will keep slogging away at it. I've closed the input tags and all validates again. Thanks. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bert Doorn Sent: Tuesday, 20 December 2005 3:49 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Dropped DIV dilemma Paul Noone wrote: Problem: http://d81314.i50.quadrahosting.com.au/index.php?module=Newsid=cntnt0 1cntn t01action=detailcntnt01articleid=8cntnt01returnid=11 The Site Updates div gets pushed way down the page. And I've got no idea why/ Strangely all is well in IE (with all the hacks in place I'd hope so!). There's a lot of css to wade through, but as far as I can tell, your clearfix class is the cause of the problem. Removing that class (in Firefox dev toolbar, to test my theory) stops it dropping down, although it causes problems elsewhere. With so many divs, classes and id's that's about the only thing I can figure out. Regards -- Bert Doorn, Better Web Design http://www.betterwebdesign.com.au/ Fast-loading, user-friendly websites ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] webpatterns and patternquiz
I think you'll find their are too many variables in a website to do this easily. Plus you'll never convince designers to stick to those set layouts :D Richard Czeiger wrote: Actually, it would be great if we could have something like this which would form a 'toolkit' of sorts where we can take 'developer-authorised' code snippets and put them in our pages. Such as finally having a collection of code so we don't have to ask: What's the most semantic and valid way of marking up addresses? and such. This would save a lot of time, especially for CSS learners / new-to-standards folk. Semantically marked up Photo Gallery? Go to the Photo Gallery section and choose from sevral layouts, all given the thumbs up by CSS Samurais and such out there. Best way to do breadcrumbs (once and for all)? Sure check out the Navigation section. etc... What do you think? R - Original Message - From: John Allsopp [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 2:34 PM Subject: [WSG] webpatterns and patternquiz Hi all, Some of you might have read my recent article, WebPatterns and WebSemantics http://westciv.typepad.com/dog_or_higher/2005/11/webpatterns_and.html In a nutshell, a pattern is a a problem which occurs over and over again … and … the core of the solution to that problem. When we build sites, unconsciously we use patterns all the time - it's just very little work has been done trying to capture and document them. That's what I've started http://webpatterns.org to do. The first big step here is the PatternQuiz http://webpatterns.org/wordpress/?p=4 the aim of which is to explore existing patterns in web development. I've started with site level patterns. I'm really interested in the thoughts of all developers about the patterns which we use, so if you have a moment please come along, and contribute your thoughts and experience john John Allsopp style master :: css editor :: http://westciv.com/style_master support forum :: http://support.westciv.com blog :: dog or higher :: http://blogs.westciv.com/dog_or_higher Web Essentials web development conference http://we05.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Pipe separated lists (was: CSS foul-up in IE)
Why are you using pipes in the first place? Why is a li with border-right : 1px solid black; styled on it and spaced out with margins and padding not sufficient? This smacks of using nbsp; for layout. Samuel Geoff Pack wrote: Christian Montoya wrote: If you heard what pipe separators sound like in a screen reader, you wouldn't think they were semantic. Just because they have a long history doesn't make them machine-readable. Well, I have heard what they sound like when Opera reads them out, which is no biggie. And I wasn't implying that semantic = machine-readable. Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Asterisks have a long history of being used to denote required form fields...but that doesn't make them semantic either. Just like the pipe separators, it's a case of a *visual* convention from the print world. They do not have meaning on their own, but their meaning has been inferred. The same inference happens when we used to use font size=+3 instead of a proper h1 or whatever to denote a heading... Well, if it's a convention, then it *has* meaning. The question is then whether the meaning is clear enough, to a wide enough selection of the audience. With HTML, we can also ask if there is a 'correct' way to mark-up the meaning. But incorrect mark-up != un-semantic in the broader sense, only that the semantics of the contents do not match the semantics of the mark-up. For asterixes, the meaning is the same as a footnote: see below for clarification. It's a pre-web in-page hyperlink. On a web page you can make the link even more explicit by adding an href to the footer text, but it's not necessary because everyone already *knows* what it means. It is just as semantic as writing 'required' next to a label (Required what?). The meaning is the same. As for lists, the pipe separated menu list is perfectly clear to most people. What is missing is a clean way to mark it up with HTML. You could use an unordered list, styled inline, but that is overkill in many cases, and not an useable if you want the list to be inline when styles are missing or turned off. Geoff. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Pipe separated lists (was: CSS foul-up in IE)
I thought this was a mailing list about web standards and semantics.
pitem 1 | item 2 | item 3/p
Doesn't mean anything semantically, it's telling me that their is a
paragraph with a bunch items in it and something called a pipe between
them, I don't know what a pipe is because I'm a blind musician looking
up new songs that I can busk down on Swanston Street. Where as:
ul id=menu
liitem 1/li
liitem 2/li
liitem 3/li
/ul
Tells me there is a *list* of *items* in a *menu*. Now I don't really
care which way you do it because frankly both are going to work for most
people, however if you want to adhere to the semantic web then you
should build it the second way. Personally I think it looks better in an
li when CSS is disabled.
Samuel
Geoff Pack wrote:
Samuel Richardson wrote:
Why are you using pipes in the first place? Why is a li with
border-right : 1px solid black; styled on it and spaced out
with margins
and padding not sufficient? This smacks of using nbsp; for layout.
Why? because it's more concise, uses less bandwidth, and looks the way I want
it to when CSS is off. And is no less correct.
This:
#menu li {display:inline; padding-right:0.5em; margin-right:0.5em;
border-right:1px solid #000;}
ul id=menu
liitem 1/li
liitem 2/li
liitem 3/li
/ul
Or:
pitem 1 | item 2 | item 3/p
Geoff.
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Re: [WSG] Dynamic Styles - Inline? What?
I think you can configure Apache to parse whatever file extensions you like as PHP, in other words you configure it with the hosting application, the CGI module should not care what it's receiving. Stephen Stagg wrote: In fact, I chickened out and used the IMG tag solution. however My web host uses PHP as a CGI module, I think, therefore, that it only handles files with .php extension? Stephen Linda Harms wrote: Stephen, Several options actually are available on the PHP side. -- you CAN script the CSS to select the appropriate background image. -- multiple css files, use php to call the appropriate one. I have an example available if you're interested. Linda (breaking away from normal lurk mode) - Original Message - From: Stephen Stagg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: WSG wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 4:12 PM Subject: [WSG] Dynamic Styles - Inline? What? One site that I'm currently coding (http://www.minimology.co.uk/everest) uses some simple PHP to manage a few dynamic elements on the pages. One of these elements (will be | is) 2 Sponsors logos at the top of each page which will go into the template. I want the links to be randomly selected from a list and to use an FIR derivation to show the relevant company logos in an accessible manner. I also, however, want the user to be able to edit an xml file describing the attributes of the various sponsors and to add new ones. Normally I would define the FIR images in a linked x.css file but this is not scriptable. How does the list suggest the tags should be styled in this case? * Inline stylesheets? * Linked .php with content-type of text/css? * style= attribute? Any thoughts?? Thanks Stephen ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.13.12/194 - Release Date: 12/7/2005 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] talking points for standards
I'm going to have to name drop my article again here :) http://www.geminidevelopment.com.au/html/article_whycomplient.php Samuel adam reitsma wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Donna, That's why I mention the measure thingy and industrial standards. I get the feeling that's something companies appreciate from a business point of view. Several of my coworkers and I recently gave a talk on when we chose to use Web standards (and when we didn't). We created a handout with some links to articles on using Web standards. Maybe one of the articles would be useful to you? Some of the reasons we chose to move to XHTML/CSS instead of table-based design: * Faster load-times. * Smaller page sizes. (One site I did went from CSS-P to a table-based template upon the customer's request, and the page sizes all tripled.) * Better accessibility. * Greater visibility in Web searches, * Better compatibility with browsers. * Future compatible with upcoming standards. I'll be happy to provide additional information if you like. Good luck with your situation. Kim Nylander -- These are some of the articles we used in the handout. Maybe they would have something useful? Why Use Web Standards? Buy standards compliant Web sites (W3C QA article) http://www.w3.org/QA/2002/07/WebAgency-Requirements The Way Forward with Web Standards (MACCAWS) http://www.maccaws.org/kit/way-forward/ What are Web Standards and Why Should I Use Them? (WaSP) http://www.webstandards.org/learn/faq/ Web Standards Switch (W3C QA) http://www.w3.org/QA/2003/03/web-kit Using Standards Learn the Standards (WaSP) http://www.webstandards.org/learn/standards/ What Every Web Site Owner Should Know About Standards: A Web Standards Primer (MACCAWS) http://www.maccaws.org/kit/primer/ Making your website valid: a step by step guide. (W3C QA) http://www.w3.org/QA/2002/09/Step-by-step My Web Site is Standard. And yours? (W3C QA) http://www.w3.org/QA/2002/04/Web-Quality ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] 2-col question
body
div id=sidebar/div
div id=content/div
/body
#sidebar
{
float : right;
width : 190px;
}
#content
{
margin-right : 190px;
}
ivanovitch wrote:
Folks - you've helped out before, and I'm asking again. Pardon if this
sounds all too simple, but I've yet to find a solution either in this
list's archives, or on the web.
I'm trying to create a fluid layout with two columns, but whilst the
left column is variable width, the right column (sidebar) is to be a
fixed width (190px). This is entirely because the right column
contains an image in every instance. But I want the left column to
take up the remainder of the space (viewport width - 190px).
Everything that I've seen or reviewed works fine if I wish to break
the columns by percentage, or pixel widths on both. And min-width
doesn't seem to work for IE.
Having divved up some non-table examples using the usual suspects, my
efforts result in my finding that when making the viewport window very
small (or when enlarging the text to huge sizes), the left column
slides under the righthand column.
Do I need to use double-divs to set a width for the troublesome right
column? The most frustrating part of this is using tables and cells,
this is a no-brainer.
I'd show you an example of where I'm at, but my test site is down at the moment.
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Re: [WSG] 2-col question
I forgot to add, if you want to apply a background image or footer then
wrap then
body
div id=contentwrap
div id=sidebar/div
div id=content/div
div style=clear : both;nbsp;/div
/div
/body
Add background images to the #contentwrap for a faux column effect, also
if you add a footer div after #contentwrap it will automatically appear
after whichever column is the longest out of #sidebar or #content. Their
are also better ways of putting content inside the clear div (firefox
requires something to be in it to work) in the nbsp; (see the CSS
content-after)
Samuel
Samuel Richardson wrote:
body
div id=sidebar/div
div id=content/div
/body
#sidebar
{
float : right;
width : 190px;
}
#content
{
margin-right : 190px;
}
ivanovitch wrote:
Folks - you've helped out before, and I'm asking again. Pardon if this
sounds all too simple, but I've yet to find a solution either in this
list's archives, or on the web.
I'm trying to create a fluid layout with two columns, but whilst the
left column is variable width, the right column (sidebar) is to be a
fixed width (190px). This is entirely because the right column
contains an image in every instance. But I want the left column to
take up the remainder of the space (viewport width - 190px).
Everything that I've seen or reviewed works fine if I wish to break
the columns by percentage, or pixel widths on both. And min-width
doesn't seem to work for IE.
Having divved up some non-table examples using the usual suspects, my
efforts result in my finding that when making the viewport window very
small (or when enlarging the text to huge sizes), the left column
slides under the righthand column.
Do I need to use double-divs to set a width for the troublesome right
column? The most frustrating part of this is using tables and cells,
this is a no-brainer.
I'd show you an example of where I'm at, but my test site is down at
the moment.
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Re: [WSG] firefox 1.5 is official
If you already have RC3 installed then you don't need to install this (as they are the same). The web developer toolbar has and update that works with 1.5 Samuel Felix Miata wrote: Ted Drake wrote: Firefox has just officially released 1.5 http://www.mozilla.com/firefox/releases/1.5.html It's time to upgrade. If you haven't been using the beta, you'll be pleasantly surprised. Does the Web Developer Extension run in it with your old profile without fussing with it? I've been using both, but web dev only in 1.0.7 and separate profiles for each. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Input Desired
Hi Mark, First of all it looks like you are resizing your images using the width and height attributes on the img tag. If those dimensions do not match the ones on the image then your images wind up being pixelated (like they are on the logo). A quick scan of your code, replace your b tags with strong, change your br tags like br / to close them, same with the image tags img src=/whatever becomes img src=/whatever / Get rid of any align attributes. You also need to specifiy a doctype etc, that's why the page won't be getting anywhere if your checking it in the W3C validator. From a design point of view, bring the font size in the left hand column navigation up a bit, it should be quite important, I'd also make that nav column match the width of the logo, bring the headers gifts for the holidays and tea talks up to match the top of the navigation box, if you do those three things it will square the page up a bit more and make it look more attractive. Samuel www.geminidevelopment.com.au Mark Arnold wrote: All, I have been lurking in the group for some time and have been humbled by the collective wisdom present here. I am hobbyist (security network/academic type by trade) trying to get up to speed on webstandards to help redesign a few non-profit orgs that I am associated with. Actually the site I need input on is not so much a non-profit but a small business that my future mother-in-law runs. here is the address of the old site: http://teagarden.biz/index.htm The current redesign and css file: http://teagarden.biz/newindex.htm http://teagarden.biz/teagard3.css I'm having a lot of problems with margins and incorporating other dimensional concepts into the site. I welcome all comments. Thx -- Chrs, Mark 617-259-6124 (m) 617-249-1539 fax ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Input Desired
Mark, Well, if they insist on a spanning image then I'd find four or five of the images they like then turn joing them together and turn it into a tiling background image, that way no matter how wide the page gets their will always be images in the header, then you can fix the logo in the top left and just have the repeating images run underneath it. Samuel Mark Arnold wrote: Samuel, I am much obliged. Everything you hit on has been nagging at me (i.e. on the logo I am using width and height with percentages, hoping for the logo to span the page as requested by the site owner. But this results in a pixelized img. Any further suggestion here?). I will incorporate your suggestions but thx much for giving the site the once over. Mark On 11/28/05, *Samuel Richardson* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Mark, First of all it looks like you are resizing your images using the width and height attributes on the img tag. If those dimensions do not match the ones on the image then your images wind up being pixelated (like they are on the logo). A quick scan of your code, replace your b tags with strong, change your br tags like br / to close them, same with the image tags img src=/whatever becomes img src=/whatever / Get rid of any align attributes. You also need to specifiy a doctype etc, that's why the page won't be getting anywhere if your checking it in the W3C validator. From a design point of view, bring the font size in the left hand column navigation up a bit, it should be quite important, I'd also make that nav column match the width of the logo, bring the headers gifts for the holidays and tea talks up to match the top of the navigation box, if you do those three things it will square the page up a bit more and make it look more attractive. Samuel www.geminidevelopment.com.au http://www.geminidevelopment.com.au Mark Arnold wrote: All, I have been lurking in the group for some time and have been humbled by the collective wisdom present here. I am hobbyist (security network/academic type by trade) trying to get up to speed on webstandards to help redesign a few non-profit orgs that I am associated with. Actually the site I need input on is not so much a non-profit but a small business that my future mother-in-law runs. here is the address of the old site: http://teagarden.biz/index.htm The current redesign and css file: http://teagarden.biz/newindex.htm http://teagarden.biz/teagard3.css I'm having a lot of problems with margins and incorporating other dimensional concepts into the site. I welcome all comments. Thx -- Chrs, Mark 617-259-6124 (m) 617-249-1539 fax ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Chrs, Mark 617-259-6124 (m) 617-249-1539 fax ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] My Turn for a Site Critique
Ok, it's my turn for a site critique: http://www.seasonstravel.com.au/ What I'm worried about: - A new stylesheet loads depending on what season your computer clock is currently in, it should also load a default stylesheet if you don't have javascript enabled, is their any browsers that might have a problem with this? - I've only checked the site in Firefox and IE on the PC. If anybody has a mac I'd love for ya to take a quick look at it and let me know if anything is wrong with it. Samuel ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] My Turn for a Site Critique
The problem is, it's always going to be a different season for everyone, it doesn't really matter if its set to the server time or not. The only way to get around it would be to do an IP detect to check what hemisphere the user is in. Maybe in the future.. Thanks for the link about the stylesheet switch, I guess doing it in PHP would also fix it too, I wouldn't have to worry about the user the having Javascript enabled. Samuel Christian Montoya wrote: On 11/28/05, Samuel Richardson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, it's my turn for a site critique: http://www.seasonstravel.com.au/ What I'm worried about: - A new stylesheet loads depending on what season your computer clock is currently in, it should also load a default stylesheet if you don't have javascript enabled, is their any browsers that might have a problem with this? A problem is see is there is a flash before the new stylesheet is loaded. The page was orange/red and then the javascript happened and it was green. There are ways to have Javascript work before the page loads, one example used for another stylesheet modifier is here: http://www.bobbyvandersluis.com/articles/unobtrusiveshowhide.php Read through it and see if the technique used there could prevent that flash. Or maybe you could do the stylesheet based on the server time and not my computer's time... that would also solve the problem... I mean, it's snowing here... is the page supposed to be green? Or is it because the weather is nice over there? -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] My Turn for a Site Critique
If you read the month of december as being summer its true for the southern hemisphere but not the northen, to do it properly you would have to detect the hemisphere then choose to load either summer or winter based on where the user is. I've just switched it over to PHP based system now, it still won't help but it fixes the flash that was happening when the page loads. Samuel Stephen Stagg wrote: Looking at your javascript, I don't understand your reasons for using javascript. You are determining the season from the Month and Day. This is constant across the globe (give or take) at any specific time. Therefore can't you use PHP or some other server script tool or even just a manual replacing of the stylesheet periodically to reflect the current season? I don't know whether JS can detect local region settings? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Samuel Richardson Sent: 29 November 2005 00:19 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] My Turn for a Site Critique The problem is, it's always going to be a different season for everyone, it doesn't really matter if its set to the server time or not. The only way to get around it would be to do an IP detect to check what hemisphere the user is in. Maybe in the future.. Thanks for the link about the stylesheet switch, I guess doing it in PHP would also fix it too, I wouldn't have to worry about the user the having Javascript enabled. Samuel Christian Montoya wrote: On 11/28/05, Samuel Richardson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok, it's my turn for a site critique: http://www.seasonstravel.com.au/ What I'm worried about: - A new stylesheet loads depending on what season your computer clock is currently in, it should also load a default stylesheet if you don't have javascript enabled, is their any browsers that might have a problem with this? A problem is see is there is a flash before the new stylesheet is loaded. The page was orange/red and then the javascript happened and it was green. There are ways to have Javascript work before the page loads, one example used for another stylesheet modifier is here: http://www.bobbyvandersluis.com/articles/unobtrusiveshowhide.php Read through it and see if the technique used there could prevent that flash. Or maybe you could do the stylesheet based on the server time and not my computer's time... that would also solve the problem... I mean, it's snowing here... is the page supposed to be green? Or is it because the weather is nice over there? -- -- Christian Montoya christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] My Turn for a Site Critique
I'm not too bothered about it, hopefully it'll encourage someone living in England to by a trip to Australia through the site once they see how nice the summer looks.. :D Stephen Stagg wrote: Sorry didn't read the thread properly. If you did do the season check in a PHP script, the hostip.info project may be able to help. A query such as: http://api.hostip.info/country.php?ip=.bbb.ccc.ddd will give you a country code which could then be used to guess the season. Stephen -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Stagg Sent: 29 November 2005 00:47 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] My Turn for a Site Critique Looking at your javascript, I don't understand your reasons for using javascript. You are determining the season from the Month and Day. This is constant across the globe (give or take) at any specific time. Therefore can't you use PHP or some other server script tool or even just a manual replacing of the stylesheet periodically to reflect the current season? I don't know whether JS can detect local region settings? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] My Turn for a Site Critique
It is, it should currently be showing summer.. Scott Swabey - Lafinboy Productions wrote: I could be missing the whole point completely here, but if you are showing information on travel to Australia, and all things related, then shouldn't the season in Australia be reflected on the site? People know what season it is and what the weather is like where they are - it's where they're going they want to know about. Regards Scott Swabey Lafinboy Productions www.lafinboy.com Samuel Richardson wrote If you read the month of december as being summer its true for the southern hemisphere but not the northen, to do it properly you would have to detect the hemisphere then choose to load either summer or winter based on where the user is. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] OT - Understanding the Website Flow
Excuse the spelling mistakes in it, I should really proof it a bit better, some of it could do with a bit of a rewriting too: http://www.geminidevelopment.com.au/html/article_printtoweb.php kvnmcwebn wrote: -they could do an introductory tutorial or two. This one is good though maybe its not exactly what your looking for. http://joshuaink.com/blog/196/a-simple-guide-to-3-column-layouts ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] PNG Question
Only supported in IE 6 with a hack, kind of an ugly one too as it renders the PNG's transparent area with a mid gray until it has finished loading, I guess if it's on a small image it's ok. Joseph R. B. Taylor wrote: Greetings all, I wanted to see what people's comments were as to using .png's vs. .gifs these days. I have a design that will require those nice transparency effects only a .png can provide if I want it to be just like the mockup. Do most browsers support that yet, or do I have to go with the gif that has been carefully shaved? If you care, the mockup is http://sausalito.sitesbyjoe.com/ and the shadow in question is on the logo - the problem is created by the pattern in the background behind it - blah blah blah. Thanks, Joe Taylor http://sitesbyjoe.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Help with a javascript menu
Don't you mean color : #000;? Or are you asking her to add a font tag.. Samuel Marko Mihelcic - founder of mcville.net (http.//www.mcville.net)|(http://board.mcville.net) wrote: hm try to work a bit more on the header and under the footer the diclamer text is hurting my eyes , try to add font color=black to that text cheers ! 2005/11/9, Charla Nicol | Quirk [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi there, I wonder if anyone can help me, My site : http://mx.quirk.co.za/poohcorner.za.net/indextest2.html on my testing server, the menu displays fine in mozilla firefox, But in ie it doesnt work, im new at this.. Any advice would be appreciated. thanks Charla -- --- Charla Nicol Junior Html Coder and Mail Administrator Quirk eMarketing www.quirk.co.za 021 462 7353 084 637 2198 --- ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Font resizing
I'd imagine that most people would not know that the browser supports it, so offering it up on the page could be a good idea. I'd think hard about using it though, if your site involves alot of text then it's worthwhile, but if your using it just as a gimmack to show off I'd avoid it.. David McKinnon wrote: I was just wondering what everyone's opinion of font resizing using stylesheet swapping? I'm wondering if it's still useful given that it's useless to people using screen readers, people with vision impairment will probably be more likely to us a screen magnifier, and others can use their browser's own font sizing -- command-+ and so on. I notice that the Sydney Morning Herald's new design font resizing, but offers just two font sizes: normal and bigger and only for some pages. Any thoughts? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] css instead of JS(ajax)
You would have to use javascript to detect the mouse position over the icons to correctly scale the image, you might be able to go from having a small icon to a large icon just using CSS. PNGs will allow you to have nice alpha blending around the edges of the images not matter what the background is behind them but you need a hack to implement it in IE6. I'd suggest altering the javascript a bit to make it a bit smoother, the apple dock scales the image your mouse is over to it's max size and scales the images on either side according to where the mouse is. At the moment it's very jumpy, responds even if you move your mouse a little bit, which is kind of annoying. Samuel Paul Noone wrote: Using a PNG you could achieve a similar effect. This was actually demoed at WE05. You should be able to find the presentation and podcast on the WE05 website. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jad Madi Sent: Wednesday, 9 November 2005 6:17 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] css instead of JS(ajax) Hi, any idea if it's possible to create menu like this one pure css without JS ? http://dojotoolkit.org/~alex/dojo/trunk/demos/widget/Fisheye.html if yes, please shot a kickstart -- Regards Jad madi Blog http://EasyHTTP.com/jad/ Web standards Planet http://W3planet.net/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Server Side Includes
It's not seen by the browser at all, unless SSI's are turned off or they are not being processed by the web server. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Richard, I use SSI's for my navigation, and I've never had any problems with validation, or structure. Kind regards, Mario Are there any standards issues around using server side includes? For example a simple include of another file e.g. -- #include file=test.html -- Does it matter that this is making use of code within comments (without wishing to start the debate about IE conditional code in comments again), or is it irrelevant because this will not be seen by the browser? Thanks, Richard Morton QM Consulting Ltd ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites
When I explain to clients why standards are important I bring up the following list: http://www.geminidevelopment.com.au/html/article_whycomplient.php And explain it to them point by point. Samuel Joseph R. B. Taylor wrote: As a thought, I wanted to point something out. No one cares about standards or accessibility but us. Its our job to care. As an example, we can view any of the URLs on this list, and see a common thread - we all like to point out that we use standards and care about accessibility. I've noticed that often, our text almost sounds as though we write it just in case another group member reads it so we make sure no one thinks we suck or something. You won't find this in any other industry. Our potential clients want to know that we care, but we can never expect them to care about the difference between HTML and XHTML and XML, nor should we ever expect them to care much about CSS vs. tables for layout. Our clients don't care as long as it works. They do care that we care enough to make them the best, most accessible site we can, but they could care less how. Just a thought. Joe Taylor http://sitesbyjoe.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Text choices on our own sites
I make a point of mentioning it in my scopes, if I'm asked about it then I iterate the advantages of it but I don't feel the need to really push the promotion of it. Jan Brasna wrote: I don't think it must be neccessarily a common issue. Many agencies I know here mostly don't even mention standards or the particular technologies, they're just selling greatly usable, effective and profitable web solutions to the clients and since they are professionals and they care the output is standards-based as an obvious thing. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Radio New Zealand site relaunch
Another classic Signify Website, good work Mike :D Samuel Richardson Mike Brown wrote: http://www.radionz.co.nz As a disclaimer, I had some involvement with the HTML/CSS templates, but even so, I think it's a good example of a site that's nice visually and reasonably standards-compliant. Mike SIGNIFY LTD :: the logic behind ph: +64 4 803-3211 | fax: +64 4 803-3241 mob: +64 0274 885-992 | http://www.signify.co.nz P.O. Box 24-068, Manners St, Wellington Level 1, 250a Wakefield St, Wellington ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] DW 8 standards
I moved from Dreamweaver to hand coding because it was faster for CSS layout based sites. For working on older table based sites then Dreamweaver is handy for navigating around the nested layouts. On a related note, can anyone suggest a text editor that features an auto complete (for tags and attributes). Also, if it had Dreamweavers ability to select blocks of tags (from open tag to close tag and everything in between) that would be fantastic. Jad Madi wrote: Well, I'm new to DW8 I used to hand coding but it's taking time to deliver sites, so I'm learning to use DW, and it seems to be good, at least till now. Code wise it can do everything for you, semantic wise you will have to be careful and the internal validate doesn't work 100% properly with xhtml strict, but that's fine ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.
Surely you would also specify sans-serif as a generic fallback from Verdana rather then using a serifed font? Samuel Graham Cook wrote: I would ignore this advice also. For a start, the general advice is to use a sans-serif font for screen display - not a serif font such as Times New Roman, Garamond, Century or Bookman. It is standard practice to specify the fallback fonts or font families to use if one is not installed on the users machine, so the argument of it dropping back to a miniscule Times New Roman is moot. Secondly, I have found users more accepting of web pages with a font size that is easily legible rather than the super tiny fonts sometimes used by the more artistic designers (eg http://www.ultrashock.com/ I always have trouble reading the text on this site) The author's comment On the web however the reader is free to set a font and size which he/she finds legible, and there is no need whatever for a web author to set a different one on the grounds of greater legibility for me bears no validity as the point is to set a default value but allow users to adjust to suit their preference, thus ems should be used not points or pixels as used for the examples. Graham Cook www.uaoz.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Julián Landerreche Sent: Tuesday, 4 October 2005 10:43 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point. Hi all, I have been reading few articles (like http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/verdana.html) about avoiding Verdana font. But I cant get the whole point in this issue. I mean: I understand that if you use a tiny font-size (like 10px or 0.64em or 64% applied to the body) you will get into problems with all fallback fonts (especialy with Times New Roman). But if you specify a higher font-size value, like 0.8em or 80%, you get a nice Verdana size and if the browser falls back to a font like Times New Roman, it is still very readable. So, please, can someone point me what am I missing about avoiding Verdana? Thanks in advance and excuse my english Julián Landerreche ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] avoid Verdana - I cant get the whole point.
So if the Linux fallback for Verdana is Bitstream Vera Sans, what's the Linux fallback for Arial? Samuel Richardson Buddy Quaid wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most Linux systems have neither Verdana nor Arial installed, at least not by default. True, but these days nearly every Linux distribution ships the free Bitstream Vera font set, which includes a sans-serif with metrics similar to Verdana. Also, the core web fonts are typically available as an easily-installed package for most distributions, which will provide Verdana and other fonts. I've found that the following works well for providing compatibility to Linux users (and as a full-time Linux user for a number of years, I can personally attest to its effectiveness): Verdana, Bitstream Vera Sans, Lucida Sans, sans-serif -- May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house. -- George Carlin ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
