Re: [WSG] Search Engines and CSS - Doesn't the HTML Matter More?
Lea de Groot wrote: Sadly, I've been unable to find any evidence of semantic code helping SEO, or even of the bots preferring semantic code, *except* for the unproven possibility of code so badly formed that a searchbot cant figure out the content of the page. (ie code that validates wont have this possibility) But I've never heard of that happening, and surely if the browsers can render it then the bots can parse it. *sigh* More about SEO: http://virtuelvis.com/archives/2004/11/search-engine-optimization -- Mvh/Regards Lennart Fylling http://lennart-fylling.com web design consultancy -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.2 - Release Date: 21.01.2005 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Search Engines and CSS - Doesn't the HTML Matter More?
Hi, I guess I want to interject here a bit. Maybe steer the conversation in a different direction because I'm very interested in this topic being a person who believes in the benefits of CSS, and who does quite a lot of SEO. From Lea's previous post: I've been searching around for an answer to this and many people are saying 'maybe' Google does read your css. Does anyone know this for a fact? If the log files dont show them loading it then they dont have the data to analyse it. Guys, can we take the focus off of the CSS file? I don't think Google or any engine cares what's in that file because it doesn't contain data relevant to site content. However, what I am wondering is this ... 1) What kind of SEO impact does using CSS to *remove* all of the styling junk from an HTML page have? Meaning we have a leaner cleaner page, a smaller page, and a page with more focused content. Does this provide an SEO benefit? 2) And how does using good semantic code in your HTML help SEO, if at all? Do the engines prefer to read semantic code, and if so why? Does that translate to an SEO benefit? I think these questions are relevant because if we could answer them in the positive with some certainty we'd have another legitimate benefit to using CSS, and we could use the knowledge as a basis for possibly deriving strategy to use CSS to provide a stronger SEO benefit. Currently my belief is that CSS doesn't have an impact on SEO significant enough to warrant redesigning a site in CSS for that reason alone. But, I'd really love to be proven wrong. Chris Rizzo -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lea de Groot Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 9:24 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Search Engines and CSS On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 10:14:04 +1100, Ryan Sabir wrote: Does anyone have a definitive answer on whether search engines take any notice of CSS? If you examine your log files, you will find that Googlebot et al never call for your css file. Thus they are not viewing it, and not using it to determine the site. We have known for a long time that is you have a text coloured the same as its background then search engines will consider this as an attempt to fool them, and lower your pages ranking... but what about doing the same thing with CSS? They are reliant on people reporting sites for this. We are always told the search engines pay respect to markup, so then this H1 content would be given high relevance. No, not particularly - the search engines dont seem to be semantic at all. I've been searching around for an answer to this and many people are saying 'maybe' Google does read your css. Does anyone know this for a fact? If the log files dont show them loading it then they dont have the data to analyse it. Simple. Lea -- Lea de Groot Elysian Systems - I Understand the Internet http://elysiansystems.com/ Search Engine Optimisation, Usability, Information Architecture, Web Design Brisbane, Australia ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Search Engines and CSS - Doesn't the HTML Matter More?
Chris, A few issues with CSS spamming: http://www.seowebsitepromotion.com/enigma_log0411.htm I've not touched on all the techniques but it a pointer in abuse of standards-based development. Cheers, Mike Pepper Accessible Web Developer Internet SEO and Marketing Analyst [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.visidigm.com Administrator Guild of Accessible Web Designers [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gawds.org -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chris Rizzo Sent: 31 January 2005 16:04 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Search Engines and CSS - Doesn't the HTML Matter More? Hi, I guess I want to interject here a bit. Maybe steer the conversation in a different direction because I'm very interested in this topic being a person who believes in the benefits of CSS, and who does quite a lot of SEO. From Lea's previous post: I've been searching around for an answer to this and many people are saying 'maybe' Google does read your css. Does anyone know this for a fact? If the log files dont show them loading it then they dont have the data to analyse it. Guys, can we take the focus off of the CSS file? I don't think Google or any engine cares what's in that file because it doesn't contain data relevant to site content. However, what I am wondering is this ... 1) What kind of SEO impact does using CSS to *remove* all of the styling junk from an HTML page have? Meaning we have a leaner cleaner page, a smaller page, and a page with more focused content. Does this provide an SEO benefit? 2) And how does using good semantic code in your HTML help SEO, if at all? Do the engines prefer to read semantic code, and if so why? Does that translate to an SEO benefit? I think these questions are relevant because if we could answer them in the positive with some certainty we'd have another legitimate benefit to using CSS, and we could use the knowledge as a basis for possibly deriving strategy to use CSS to provide a stronger SEO benefit. Currently my belief is that CSS doesn't have an impact on SEO significant enough to warrant redesigning a site in CSS for that reason alone. But, I'd really love to be proven wrong. Chris Rizzo ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Search Engines and CSS - Doesn't the HTML Matter More?
Hi Mike, Thanks for the article. It was a good overview of spamming. I must say though, that's not what I'm interested in. I definitely don't want to spam the search engines... that would be something like SES (search engine spamming); I want to know if CSS will help my legitimate non-spamming professional SEO efforts. So far I haven't come across any data that would convince me CSS makes a big difference with honest SEO. I'm wondering if anyone has any insight to the contrary? Thanks, Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Pepper Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 12:45 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Search Engines and CSS - Doesn't the HTML Matter More? Chris, A few issues with CSS spamming: http://www.seowebsitepromotion.com/enigma_log0411.htm I've not touched on all the techniques but it a pointer in abuse of standards-based development. Cheers, Mike Pepper Accessible Web Developer Internet SEO and Marketing Analyst [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.visidigm.com Administrator Guild of Accessible Web Designers [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gawds.org -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chris Rizzo Sent: 31 January 2005 16:04 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: RE: [WSG] Search Engines and CSS - Doesn't the HTML Matter More? Hi, I guess I want to interject here a bit. Maybe steer the conversation in a different direction because I'm very interested in this topic being a person who believes in the benefits of CSS, and who does quite a lot of SEO. From Lea's previous post: I've been searching around for an answer to this and many people are saying 'maybe' Google does read your css. Does anyone know this for a fact? If the log files dont show them loading it then they dont have the data to analyse it. Guys, can we take the focus off of the CSS file? I don't think Google or any engine cares what's in that file because it doesn't contain data relevant to site content. However, what I am wondering is this ... 1) What kind of SEO impact does using CSS to *remove* all of the styling junk from an HTML page have? Meaning we have a leaner cleaner page, a smaller page, and a page with more focused content. Does this provide an SEO benefit? 2) And how does using good semantic code in your HTML help SEO, if at all? Do the engines prefer to read semantic code, and if so why? Does that translate to an SEO benefit? I think these questions are relevant because if we could answer them in the positive with some certainty we'd have another legitimate benefit to using CSS, and we could use the knowledge as a basis for possibly deriving strategy to use CSS to provide a stronger SEO benefit. Currently my belief is that CSS doesn't have an impact on SEO significant enough to warrant redesigning a site in CSS for that reason alone. But, I'd really love to be proven wrong. Chris Rizzo ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Search Engines and CSS
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 12:24:29 +1000, Lea de Groot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, not particularly - the search engines dont seem to be semantic at all. In my experience - and seo is part of my job - search engines *do* place higher relevance on keywords inside H1 tags. -- Kay Smoljak http://kay.smoljak.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Search Engines and CSS
Google don't always use the Google bot user agent string - one of their techniques is to use an IE user agent string from a different subnet and compare it to what Google-bot gets. They also have very good methods of rendering content to analyse its visual output. This covers javascript tricks, css tricks and white-on-white stuff. Basically don't waste your time trying to out smart a company with that many PHDs and that much RD budget. There are good ways of getting results in Google without silly tricks that will get you banned. Write good content, get good links. I really don't know if this thread is relevant on this list though - if you are seriously interested in discussing google - go to the Google News forum on Web master world. -- Mark Stanton Gruden Pty Ltd http://www.gruden.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Search Engines and CSS
Mark Stanton wrote: Basically don't waste your time trying to out smart a company with that many PHDs and that much RD budget. There are good ways of getting results in Google without silly tricks that will get you banned. Write good content, get good links. ...Yet they can't produce a single standards-compliant page? -- -David R ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Search Engines and CSS
On 28 Jan 2005, at 01:28, Mike Pepper wrote: Take a look at some fought over keyphrases like 'website development' in Google UK. You'll find many sites spamming with irrelevant noscript, off-screen absolute positioned text, minute text, hidden layers, even some cretins with WOW (white-on-white) text. And you know what? Google doesn't do a damn thing about it. I think that's a bit unfair. It's a bit like complaining that the police do nothing about crime in your area when none of the residents can be bothered to report it. If you see a site which use dubious methods to gain a ranking advantage, contact Google and complain. I've a friend who's a professional SEO and one of the main things he and many of his colleagues do is report dubious sites. If after a month or so nothing has been done about it, then complain about it. Andy Budd http://www.message.uk.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Search Engines and CSS
Andy, I have sent literally hundreds of mails to Google illustrating exactly what the miscreants are doing and how. I take SEO seriously and know most if not all the techniques. They have never responded in any way other than their automated responders. I eventually gave up in the knowledge that I was wasting my time and energy. Whenever I tackle a new market arena demanding fresh keyphrase analysis I always vet the competition to see what I'm up against. The volume of spam is extraordinary. Yahoo! and MSN are better. They at least make an effort to respond and deal with alerts. I have zero tolerance for spammers in any shape or form but as far as Google goes, they're a waste of space when it comes to fighting spam. It's not unfair; it's my experience over the past 3 years. Mike Pepper Accessible Web Developer Internet SEO and Marketing Analyst [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.visidigm.com Administrator Guild of Accessible Web Designers [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gawds.org -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Andy Budd Sent: 28 January 2005 09:53 To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Search Engines and CSS On 28 Jan 2005, at 01:28, Mike Pepper wrote: Take a look at some fought over keyphrases like 'website development' in Google UK. You'll find many sites spamming with irrelevant noscript, off-screen absolute positioned text, minute text, hidden layers, even some cretins with WOW (white-on-white) text. And you know what? Google doesn't do a damn thing about it. I think that's a bit unfair. It's a bit like complaining that the police do nothing about crime in your area when none of the residents can be bothered to report it. If you see a site which use dubious methods to gain a ranking advantage, contact Google and complain. I've a friend who's a professional SEO and one of the main things he and many of his colleagues do is report dubious sites. If after a month or so nothing has been done about it, then complain about it. Andy Budd http://www.message.uk.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.1 - Release Date: 27/01/05 ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Search Engines and CSS - Not the real story.
Darren, That's not the real story. It's all well and good to have an honest web site that people link to and like. In all probably you will then do well in Google. But you know and I know folks who actively do good SEO work can do well in Google too. And not only that, but you can do SEO work and be honest! They are not mutually exclusive. Many successful sites will be, IMHO, a combination of both. So SEO does matter, and CSS and SEO may matter too. Not to get into an SEO debate here, but let's be fair. To address the question of whether Google will appreciate CSS, I don't have facts but the logic goes that Google and other engines like text, and anything but text gets in the way. So when you use CSS and move your content to HTML ratio in favor of content you make your site more SEO friendly. I'll bet others here will have some similar thoughts. However, in my estimation CSS isn't so important to SEO. I'd like to be proven wrong though. Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren Wood Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 6:34 PM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Search Engines and CSS I'm not sure if they do. But what I can tell you is that there is no point at all to try and fool search engines. Search engines (google) will give you more rank if your site is honest, well built and on topic. You can try all the tricks in the world...but the fact remains: if your site is good then people will link to it, if lots of people link to it then google will be more inclined to like your site too. Cheers D Ryan Sabir wrote: Hey all, Does anyone have a definitive answer on whether search engines take any notice of CSS? We have known for a long time that is you have a text coloured the same as its background then search engines will consider this as an attempt to fool them, and lower your pages ranking... but what about doing the same thing with CSS? There would be so many ways to hide text with css, setting display to none, setting the background colour, pushing the padding up so the text gets pushed out of the element, etc... Someone could develop their page full of H1's with dodgy keywords, and simply not display the content of those H1's. We are always told the search engines pay respect to markup, so then this H1 content would be given high relevance. I've been searching around for an answer to this and many people are saying 'maybe' Google does read your css. Does anyone know this for a fact? thanks all, bye! --- Ryan Sabir Newgency Pty Ltd 2a Broughton St Paddington 2021 Sydney, Australia Ph (02) 9331 2133 Fax (02) 9331 5199 Mobile: 0411 512 454 http://www.newgency.com/index.cfm?referer=rysig ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Search Engines and CSS
Mike Pepper wrote: I have sent literally hundreds of mails to Google illustrating exactly what the miscreants are doing and how. I take SEO seriously and know most if not all the techniques. They have never responded in any way other than their automated responders. I eventually gave up in the knowledge that I was wasting my time and energy. It's not unfair; it's my experience over the past 3 years. Sorry Mike, I got the wrong end of the stick there. I thought you were complaining about them not automagically picking up on spamdexing. While I'm not surprised that you didn't get a personal response I am a little surprised that the sites in question haven't been penalised. I wonder if you report your competition to Google and they do nothing about it, you'd have a case for suing them for loss of earnings? This lack of responsiveness gives unscrupulous SEO's an good incentive to spam Google while hurting the more honest SEO's out there. Now where did I put my list of keywords, my doorway pages and my cloaking scripts? Andy Budd http://www.message.uk.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Search Engines and CSS
On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 10:14:04 +1100, Ryan Sabir wrote: Does anyone have a definitive answer on whether search engines take any notice of CSS? If you examine your log files, you will find that Googlebot et al never call for your css file. Thus they are not viewing it, and not using it to determine the site. We have known for a long time that is you have a text coloured the same as its background then search engines will consider this as an attempt to fool them, and lower your pages ranking... but what about doing the same thing with CSS? They are reliant on people reporting sites for this. We are always told the search engines pay respect to markup, so then this H1 content would be given high relevance. No, not particularly - the search engines dont seem to be semantic at all. I've been searching around for an answer to this and many people are saying 'maybe' Google does read your css. Does anyone know this for a fact? If the log files dont show them loading it then they dont have the data to analyse it. Simple. Lea -- Lea de Groot Elysian Systems - I Understand the Internet http://elysiansystems.com/ Search Engine Optimisation, Usability, Information Architecture, Web Design Brisbane, Australia ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Search Engines and CSS
I'm not sure if they do. But what I can tell you is that there is no point at all to try and fool search engines. Search engines (google) will give you more rank if your site is honest, well built and on topic. You can try all the tricks in the world...but the fact remains: if your site is good then people will link to it, if lots of people link to it then google will be more inclined to like your site too. Cheers D Ryan Sabir wrote: Hey all, Does anyone have a definitive answer on whether search engines take any notice of CSS? We have known for a long time that is you have a text coloured the same as its background then search engines will consider this as an attempt to fool them, and lower your pages ranking... but what about doing the same thing with CSS? There would be so many ways to hide text with css, setting display to none, setting the background colour, pushing the padding up so the text gets pushed out of the element, etc... Someone could develop their page full of H1's with dodgy keywords, and simply not display the content of those H1's. We are always told the search engines pay respect to markup, so then this H1 content would be given high relevance. I've been searching around for an answer to this and many people are saying 'maybe' Google does read your css. Does anyone know this for a fact? thanks all, bye! --- Ryan Sabir Newgency Pty Ltd 2a Broughton St Paddington 2021 Sydney, Australia Ph (02) 9331 2133 Fax (02) 9331 5199 Mobile: 0411 512 454 http://www.newgency.com/index.cfm?referer=rysig ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Search Engines and CSS
Darren Wood wrote: if your site is good then people will link to it, if lots of people link to it then google will be more inclined to like your site too. Thats how the concept of googlejuice works anyway, the more links a page has pointing to it, the higher up it gets ...Which can be a bummer at times, I've been looking through my logs to see what people are searching for when they land on my site, turns out I usually come #2 or #3 with some major site as #1, even though their content was less relevant to the search query. Should I, perhaps, put an impasioned plea on my site: Please help this site, not by clicking the adverts (because there arn't any), but by linking back to me for free googlejuice ...Its worth a shot -- -David R Cheers D Ryan Sabir wrote: Hey all, Does anyone have a definitive answer on whether search engines take any notice of CSS? We have known for a long time that is you have a text coloured the same as its background then search engines will consider this as an attempt to fool them, and lower your pages ranking... but what about doing the same thing with CSS? There would be so many ways to hide text with css, setting display to none, setting the background colour, pushing the padding up so the text gets pushed out of the element, etc... Someone could develop their page full of H1's with dodgy keywords, and simply not display the content of those H1's. We are always told the search engines pay respect to markup, so then this H1 content would be given high relevance. I've been searching around for an answer to this and many people are saying 'maybe' Google does read your css. Does anyone know this for a fact? thanks all, bye! --- Ryan Sabir Newgency Pty Ltd 2a Broughton St Paddington 2021 Sydney, Australia Ph (02) 9331 2133 Fax (02) 9331 5199 Mobile: 0411 512 454 http://www.newgency.com/index.cfm?referer=rysig ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Search Engines and CSS
On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 10:14:04 +1100, Ryan Sabir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Does anyone have a definitive answer on whether search engines take
any notice of CSS?
I don't think so.
Someone could develop their page full of H1's with dodgy keywords,
and simply not display the content of those H1's. We are always told
the search engines pay respect to markup, so then this H1 content
would be given high relevance.
Sure. You can do it without CSS too - image backgrounds, scripting, etc.
Even if Google read CSS it couldn't tell if text is readable.
Maybe simple #id {display: none;} would do the job, but
what about overflows, positioning and lots of other tricks?
There are ways to trick google and I've seen quite successful attempts,
but it's generally stupid and doesn't pay off.
You need to carefully spam your pages, have huge link farms, etc.
Instead it's better to use this effort to create clean semantic code
and promote your website.
--
regards, Kornel Lesiski
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
Re: [WSG] Search Engines and CSS
I remember reading a quote from a Google tech. stating that while their system is capable of reading/interpreting CSS, they don't do so due to the excess load it would create. I also remember the same quote mentioning something about sites only getting penalised if someone lodges a complaint against them (re: CSS hiding of h1's etc). Unfortunately I have no idea _where_ I read this, so I guess you'll have to throw it on the pile of 'hearsay' Andrew. http://leftjustified.net/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Search Engines and CSS
Take a look at some fought over keyphrases like 'website development' in Google UK. You'll find many sites spamming with irrelevant noscript, off-screen absolute positioned text, minute text, hidden layers, even some cretins with WOW (white-on-white) text. And you know what? Google doesn't do a damn thing about it. They're far too concerned with AdWords and AdSense. Hot markets are awash with spammed keyphrases and whole swathes of junk keyword-littered text. Which suggests either they don't or can't factor CSS into the spam algos or they simply aren't bothered. Draw your own conclusions. Cheers all, Mike Pepper Accessible Web Developer Internet SEO and Marketing Analyst [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.visidigm.com Administrator Guild of Accessible Web Designers [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gawds.org ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Search Engines and CSS
It is my understanding that Google doesn't parse or index .css files, let alone test the whether the css modifies to HTML in a manner designed to manipulate rankings. Try it yourself. Try and find your own websites .css file indexed in Google by searching on the full filename of the .css file. However, as Andrew mentioned - the biggest risk of detection is human detection and reporting. Your competitors are the threat. Whether Google acts on specific spam reports - that's the risk you can take. Feeling Lucky? :) Best regards Chris Dimmock Cogentis Search Engine Marketing http://www.cogentis.com.au/ On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 01:28:43 -, Mike Pepper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Take a look at some fought over keyphrases like 'website development' in Google UK. You'll find many sites spamming with irrelevant noscript, off-screen absolute positioned text, minute text, hidden layers, even some cretins with WOW (white-on-white) text. And you know what? Google doesn't do a damn thing about it. They're far too concerned with AdWords and AdSense. Hot markets are awash with spammed keyphrases and whole swathes of junk keyword-littered text. Which suggests either they don't or can't factor CSS into the spam algos or they simply aren't bothered. Draw your own conclusions. Cheers all, Mike Pepper Accessible Web Developer Internet SEO and Marketing Analyst [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.visidigm.com Administrator Guild of Accessible Web Designers [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.gawds.org ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
