Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Display bindings
Hi :) I am wondering if anyone here has been able to have a go to find out which way they prefer to try to help Niklas with his really good work in this area. Regards from Tom :) On 16 January 2015 at 18:06, Niklas Johansson sleeping.pil...@gmail.com wrote: So the change is in the daily builds of LibreOffice. I would like to encourage you to try it out and see what you think. I will not push it backwards towards LibreOffice 4.4 or earlier at this point, since I think it might be good to discuss if this really is what we want. Exposing the keyboard shortcuts as a part of menu names is what traditionally is recommended and what most of the applications is doing (not counting ribbon based applications). However looking at ribbon based applications like Word or Explorer seem to indicate that only the accelerators is exposed but not the keyboard shortcuts. The main problem with exposing the keyboard shortcut is that if the accelerator is set to be announced it is announced directly after the keyboard shortcut, making everything a bit hard to hear. Also if we append it to the announcement of the menu item it will always be announced. Again please try out one of the daily builds and let me know what you think. For example this one http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/master/Win-x86@42/2015-01-16_01.53.40/libo-master~2015-01-16_01.53.40_LibreOfficeDev_4.5.0.0.alpha0_Win_x86.msi The daily build can be installed alongside your current LibreOffice installation and will be installed with the name LibreOfficeDev instead of just LibreOffice. Thanks, Niklas -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Display bindings
So the change is in the daily builds of LibreOffice. I would like to encourage you to try it out and see what you think. I will not push it backwards towards LibreOffice 4.4 or earlier at this point, since I think it might be good to discuss if this really is what we want. Exposing the keyboard shortcuts as a part of menu names is what traditionally is recommended and what most of the applications is doing (not counting ribbon based applications). However looking at ribbon based applications like Word or Explorer seem to indicate that only the accelerators is exposed but not the keyboard shortcuts. The main problem with exposing the keyboard shortcut is that if the accelerator is set to be announced it is announced directly after the keyboard shortcut, making everything a bit hard to hear. Also if we append it to the announcement of the menu item it will always be announced. Again please try out one of the daily builds and let me know what you think. For example this one http://dev-builds.libreoffice.org/daily/master/Win-x86@42/2015-01-16_01.53.40/libo-master~2015-01-16_01.53.40_LibreOfficeDev_4.5.0.0.alpha0_Win_x86.msi The daily build can be installed alongside your current LibreOffice installation and will be installed with the name LibreOfficeDev instead of just LibreOffice. Thanks, Niklas -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Display bindings
Hi :) Ok, so posting the bug report sounds like a great idea to me. I think just go for it! There is a drop-down in the bug reporting system that lets you mark it as a feature request. I think marking it that way would make more sense to devs. Stuart's posts might be useful, or might give you something to add later. A lot of people just post bug reports without asking anyone else what they think and it sounds like you are a LOT more experienced with the issues. So it was really kind to ask what we thought! Just go for it though :) Thanks :) Regards from Tom :) On 17 December 2014 at 11:47, Niklas Johansson sleeping.pil...@gmail.com wrote: Hi First of, I work on translation myself, alone in translating into Swedish at the moment, so I'm well aware of these translation issues. ;) In this particular case I believe that we can avoid extra workload on the translation team. At least when it comes to the change/fix that I have in mind. The problem in this case is strictly a Windows accessibility issue were the shortcut string is already displayed in the menu entries but not forwarded to accessibility tools. Now what I believe needs to be done is to find the correct place to actually forward the information, it is already forwarded on Mac and Linux. Finding the correct place to change is not that easy, but I believe that it can be done without effecting the translation team. Again I'm not taking about adding new strings to menu entries just use the information that is already present and present it to accessibility tools as well. Note that I'm swamped with work (at my daytime job) and when I get some spare time I need to work on the translation and spend time with my ~4 months old baby girl. This is also one of the reasons why I thought a bug should be filed so we can keep track of the bug, and I can add my findings as I try to narrow in on the issue. Thereby also making it easier for someone else to complete the work if I can't find the time. Regards, Niklas Johansson Tom Davies skrev den 2014-12-16 14:15: Hi :) Ok, so best left for a couple of months. I have a feeling we might have managed to stay on topic, or at least get back to the original problem! However that is so rare i can't quite believe it! @ Niklas, does that address the issue at all? Regards from Tom :) On 15 December 2014 at 10:44, Sophie gautier.sop...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Tom, all, Le 14/12/2014 22:53, Tom Davies a écrit : Hi :) L10n lists are currently having a massive argument/discussion (discussion is more accurate tbh) right now about the disruptive effect of minor changes. The problem is minor changes, like capital letters in menu entries, that concerns only en_US version but because this version is the source for all the localization, this is also visible in localized versions where it could be considered as wasted time for localizers. I'm not sure but i suspect that getting such a UI change within the next couple of days might play out ok and catch the translators before they have put too much time into too many strings and then finding they need to repeat the work. If it's not likely to be just a couple of days then it'd probably be better for them if this sort of change didn't happen for a few months - or longer. There might be a chance of them automating something like this but it'd take ages to set something up and they haven't agreed on getting the automation bit sorted. Shortcuts can't be automated as they are localized (Ctrl and Shift). And the problem with automation is that we need somebody to write the scripts ;) The same for accelerators, where we need to adapt them to translated words. Anyway we will have a discussion about it with developers and UX team, once we are out of the 4.4.0 rushes. Cheers Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscribe@ global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to- unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more:
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Display bindings
Hi, Who reports the bug? Does someone want to try? Should I do? Regards, Le 17/12/2014 13:05, Tom Davies a écrit : Hi :) Ok, so posting the bug report sounds like a great idea to me. I think just go for it! There is a drop-down in the bug reporting system that lets you mark it as a feature request. I think marking it that way would make more sense to devs. Stuart's posts might be useful, or might give you something to add later. A lot of people just post bug reports without asking anyone else what they think and it sounds like you are a LOT more experienced with the issues. So it was really kind to ask what we thought! Just go for it though :) Thanks :) Regards from Tom :) On 17 December 2014 at 11:47, Niklas Johansson sleeping.pil...@gmail.com wrote: Hi First of, I work on translation myself, alone in translating into Swedish at the moment, so I'm well aware of these translation issues. ;) In this particular case I believe that we can avoid extra workload on the translation team. At least when it comes to the change/fix that I have in mind. The problem in this case is strictly a Windows accessibility issue were the shortcut string is already displayed in the menu entries but not forwarded to accessibility tools. Now what I believe needs to be done is to find the correct place to actually forward the information, it is already forwarded on Mac and Linux. Finding the correct place to change is not that easy, but I believe that it can be done without effecting the translation team. Again I'm not taking about adding new strings to menu entries just use the information that is already present and present it to accessibility tools as well. Note that I'm swamped with work (at my daytime job) and when I get some spare time I need to work on the translation and spend time with my ~4 months old baby girl. This is also one of the reasons why I thought a bug should be filed so we can keep track of the bug, and I can add my findings as I try to narrow in on the issue. Thereby also making it easier for someone else to complete the work if I can't find the time. Regards, Niklas Johansson Tom Davies skrev den 2014-12-16 14:15: Hi :) Ok, so best left for a couple of months. I have a feeling we might have managed to stay on topic, or at least get back to the original problem! However that is so rare i can't quite believe it! @ Niklas, does that address the issue at all? Regards from Tom :) On 15 December 2014 at 10:44, Sophie gautier.sop...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Tom, all, Le 14/12/2014 22:53, Tom Davies a écrit : Hi :) L10n lists are currently having a massive argument/discussion (discussion is more accurate tbh) right now about the disruptive effect of minor changes. The problem is minor changes, like capital letters in menu entries, that concerns only en_US version but because this version is the source for all the localization, this is also visible in localized versions where it could be considered as wasted time for localizers. I'm not sure but i suspect that getting such a UI change within the next couple of days might play out ok and catch the translators before they have put too much time into too many strings and then finding they need to repeat the work. If it's not likely to be just a couple of days then it'd probably be better for them if this sort of change didn't happen for a few months - or longer. There might be a chance of them automating something like this but it'd take ages to set something up and they haven't agreed on getting the automation bit sorted. Shortcuts can't be automated as they are localized (Ctrl and Shift). And the problem with automation is that we need somebody to write the scripts ;) The same for accelerators, where we need to adapt them to translated words. Anyway we will have a discussion about it with developers and UX team, once we are out of the 4.4.0 rushes. Cheers Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscribe@ global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to- unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Jean-Philippe MENGUAL accelibreinfo, votre partenaire en informatique adaptée aux déficients visuels Mail: te...@accelibreinfo.eu Site Web:
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Display bindings
Hi :) Ok, so best left for a couple of months. I have a feeling we might have managed to stay on topic, or at least get back to the original problem! However that is so rare i can't quite believe it! @ Niklas, does that address the issue at all? Regards from Tom :) On 15 December 2014 at 10:44, Sophie gautier.sop...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Tom, all, Le 14/12/2014 22:53, Tom Davies a écrit : Hi :) L10n lists are currently having a massive argument/discussion (discussion is more accurate tbh) right now about the disruptive effect of minor changes. The problem is minor changes, like capital letters in menu entries, that concerns only en_US version but because this version is the source for all the localization, this is also visible in localized versions where it could be considered as wasted time for localizers. I'm not sure but i suspect that getting such a UI change within the next couple of days might play out ok and catch the translators before they have put too much time into too many strings and then finding they need to repeat the work. If it's not likely to be just a couple of days then it'd probably be better for them if this sort of change didn't happen for a few months - or longer. There might be a chance of them automating something like this but it'd take ages to set something up and they haven't agreed on getting the automation bit sorted. Shortcuts can't be automated as they are localized (Ctrl and Shift). And the problem with automation is that we need somebody to write the scripts ;) The same for accelerators, where we need to adapt them to translated words. Anyway we will have a discussion about it with developers and UX team, once we are out of the 4.4.0 rushes. Cheers Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Display bindings
Hi Tom, all, Le 14/12/2014 22:53, Tom Davies a écrit : Hi :) L10n lists are currently having a massive argument/discussion (discussion is more accurate tbh) right now about the disruptive effect of minor changes. The problem is minor changes, like capital letters in menu entries, that concerns only en_US version but because this version is the source for all the localization, this is also visible in localized versions where it could be considered as wasted time for localizers. I'm not sure but i suspect that getting such a UI change within the next couple of days might play out ok and catch the translators before they have put too much time into too many strings and then finding they need to repeat the work. If it's not likely to be just a couple of days then it'd probably be better for them if this sort of change didn't happen for a few months - or longer. There might be a chance of them automating something like this but it'd take ages to set something up and they haven't agreed on getting the automation bit sorted. Shortcuts can't be automated as they are localized (Ctrl and Shift). And the problem with automation is that we need somebody to write the scripts ;) The same for accelerators, where we need to adapt them to translated words. Anyway we will have a discussion about it with developers and UX team, once we are out of the 4.4.0 rushes. Cheers Sophie -- Sophie Gautier sophie.gaut...@documentfoundation.org Tel:+33683901545 Co-founder - Release coordinator The Document Foundation -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Display bindings
Hi :) L10n lists are currently having a massive argument/discussion (discussion is more accurate tbh) right now about the disruptive effect of minor changes. I'm not sure but i suspect that getting such a UI change within the next couple of days might play out ok and catch the translators before they have put too much time into too many strings and then finding they need to repeat the work. If it's not likely to be just a couple of days then it'd probably be better for them if this sort of change didn't happen for a few months - or longer. There might be a chance of them automating something like this but it'd take ages to set something up and they haven't agreed on getting the automation bit sorted. Regards from Tom :) On 12 December 2014 at 17:00, V Stuart Foote vstuart.fo...@utsa.edu wrote: @Tom, *, No, you're asking the right question. But you do need to look under the bonnet from time to time. Within the LibreOffice code there are two broad classes of keyboard accelerators. One is associated with the .uno action associated with each object in the user interface. The other are specific key functions defined globally. Most of the current implementation can be reviewed here: Other than the GenericCommands.xcu, different modules assign access keys as needed http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/officecfg/registry/data/org/openoffice/Office/UI/ These are the global keyboard accelerator/short-cut keys and each LibreOffice module responds in some fashion to them. The KEY_MOD1 and KEY_MOD2 differ depending on OS. http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/vcl/source/window/keycod.cxx The native accessibility bridges handle only the first, the access keys. But does so pretty effectively at this point. Enhancement would be to do as Mozilla and Adobe (and I assume Google) have done, and simply label each menu item (or button) with its keyboard accelerator/short-cut key as appropriate for the function. The rub would come with needing to accommodate keys for each OS and possibly UI issues with the l10n/i18n support. -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice-accessibility-Display-bindings-tp4131697p4132420.html Sent from the Accessibility mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Display bindings
Hi I still believe there is a bug or maybe we should call it an enhancement request. It is true that accelerators are exposed properly through IAccessible::get_accKeyboardShortcut, as they should. But reading Microsoft notes [1] on the matter suggests that one should expose the keyboard shortcut, aka Ctrl + O, together with the menu item name. This is also how, for example, Firefox, Chrome, Internet Explorer, Acrobat Reader does it. Am I missing some reason as to why we would not want to do the same. However Stuarts instructions in the previous mail is enough to quickly get around in LibreOffice. Note also that there are extensive information on keyboard shortcuts in the LibreOffice help. Se for example: https://help.libreoffice.org/Common/General_Shortcut_Keys_in or: https://help.libreoffice.org/Writer/Shortcut_Keys_for_Writer [1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/dd318482%28v=vs.85%29.aspx Regards, Niklas Johansson -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Display bindings
Hi :) Errr, excluding Stuart and others who work on Accessibility Issues and the ones working on Base who are all total stars. Especially Stuart imo Regards from Tom :) On 12 December 2014 at 14:07, Tom Davies tomc...@gmail.com wrote: Hi :) I suspect that calling it an Enhancement Request might make people see it in a more positive way. Bug report sounds like a grumbly aunt or something. Also if it's something that LO has not had before then it is an enhancement. It's not like it was something that got broken or doesn't quite work as it should. I am struggling to work out how devs think but i am beginning to think the above might be getting closer to it. Regards from Tom :) On 12 December 2014 at 13:47, Niklas Johansson sleeping.pil...@gmail.com wrote: Hi I still believe there is a bug or maybe we should call it an enhancement request. It is true that accelerators are exposed properly through IAccessible::get_accKeyboardShortcut, as they should. But reading Microsoft notes [1] on the matter suggests that one should expose the keyboard shortcut, aka Ctrl + O, together with the menu item name. This is also how, for example, Firefox, Chrome, Internet Explorer, Acrobat Reader does it. Am I missing some reason as to why we would not want to do the same. However Stuarts instructions in the previous mail is enough to quickly get around in LibreOffice. Note also that there are extensive information on keyboard shortcuts in the LibreOffice help. Se for example: https://help.libreoffice.org/Common/General_Shortcut_Keys_in or: https://help.libreoffice.org/Writer/Shortcut_Keys_for_Writer [1] http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ dd318482%28v=vs.85%29.aspx Regards, Niklas Johansson -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscribe@ global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to- unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Display bindings
Hi :) If it's trivial and makes it more consistent with other apps then it sounds like a really good option. Such a good option that it worries me why it hasn't been done already. Maybe there is a good reason? There have been a lot of positive changes in LibreOffice accessibility over the last year so maybe that is a factor? Also maybe other apps (such as Firefox) have settled down to being more consistent with each other? Would such a change create problems for existing users who are used to using whatever keyboard short-cuts are currently being used in LibreOffice? If so is it likely to be easy to give people the choice? At the moment there is already a setting in the Tools - Options that allows people to choose between LibreOffice dialogues and native dialogues. Would something like that be necessary to try to keep the existing users happy? If so would it be easy? Regards from Tom :) On 12 December 2014 at 15:28, V Stuart Foote vstuart.fo...@utsa.edu wrote: Niklas, Sure, we could make a distinction as Microsoft does, between the access key and a keyboard accelerator/shortcut-key. But, as you know the majority of AT support in OOo and derivatives like LibreOffice is structured around the accessibleRole assigned to an object--and from that comes accessibleName and access key attributes if any. For objects that have VCL or UI based access keys attributes, those are exposed to the UNO Accessibility API as the object is navigated, and the respective native accessibility bridge handles it--as the user has configured. Menu items and GUI widgets (buttons, spinners, etc.) that do not have an access key assigned will sound either the objects name or it's tooltip. Those that do, will also sound the name and the access key. With the shift of most of the GUI to UI, most access keys no longer are Alt+letter combinations. Rather they are just the letter -- and that might need to be adjusted at some point. But global keyboard accelerator/shortcuts-keys, normally structured with Ctrl+letter, or Ctrl+Shift+letter are not otherwise exposed to AT as they are not associated with the UI object. Anyhow, looking at a Firefox session, there they have simply adjusted the objects accessibleName and are appending the global shortcut-key to the name! Nothing special. The access key associated with the accessible object is exposed with AT. It is exactly the same with Adobe Reader. So, we could do the same, pretty trivial as it is only label changes, and some coordination with the l10n/i18n teams. Stuart -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice-accessibility-Display-bindings-tp4131697p4132408.html Sent from the Accessibility mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Display bindings
Hi :) Errr, in my questions i am not looking for certainties. I'm just trying to get a rough idea of what might be. I often find that things which initially seem quite easy have some lurking bug-bear waiting to bite me. So i'm trying to guess at things that might have been problems in the past, or might prevent LibreOffice from doing something like this. If the answers turn out to be wrong later on then it's likely to be my fault for asking the wrong questions or not thinking of the right ones. The worst thing imo would be to put loads of work into getting precise accurate answers and then find no-one else is interested in going that route anyway. Regards from Tom :) On 12 December 2014 at 15:55, Tom Davies tomc...@gmail.com wrote: Hi :) If it's trivial and makes it more consistent with other apps then it sounds like a really good option. Such a good option that it worries me why it hasn't been done already. Maybe there is a good reason? There have been a lot of positive changes in LibreOffice accessibility over the last year so maybe that is a factor? Also maybe other apps (such as Firefox) have settled down to being more consistent with each other? Would such a change create problems for existing users who are used to using whatever keyboard short-cuts are currently being used in LibreOffice? If so is it likely to be easy to give people the choice? At the moment there is already a setting in the Tools - Options that allows people to choose between LibreOffice dialogues and native dialogues. Would something like that be necessary to try to keep the existing users happy? If so would it be easy? Regards from Tom :) On 12 December 2014 at 15:28, V Stuart Foote vstuart.fo...@utsa.edu wrote: Niklas, Sure, we could make a distinction as Microsoft does, between the access key and a keyboard accelerator/shortcut-key. But, as you know the majority of AT support in OOo and derivatives like LibreOffice is structured around the accessibleRole assigned to an object--and from that comes accessibleName and access key attributes if any. For objects that have VCL or UI based access keys attributes, those are exposed to the UNO Accessibility API as the object is navigated, and the respective native accessibility bridge handles it--as the user has configured. Menu items and GUI widgets (buttons, spinners, etc.) that do not have an access key assigned will sound either the objects name or it's tooltip. Those that do, will also sound the name and the access key. With the shift of most of the GUI to UI, most access keys no longer are Alt+letter combinations. Rather they are just the letter -- and that might need to be adjusted at some point. But global keyboard accelerator/shortcuts-keys, normally structured with Ctrl+letter, or Ctrl+Shift+letter are not otherwise exposed to AT as they are not associated with the UI object. Anyhow, looking at a Firefox session, there they have simply adjusted the objects accessibleName and are appending the global shortcut-key to the name! Nothing special. The access key associated with the accessible object is exposed with AT. It is exactly the same with Adobe Reader. So, we could do the same, pretty trivial as it is only label changes, and some coordination with the l10n/i18n teams. Stuart -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice-accessibility-Display-bindings-tp4131697p4132408.html Sent from the Accessibility mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Display bindings
Hi, So if I understood all this thread: 1. Yes, LibreOffice presents to Iaccessible2, thus NVDA, the accelerator checking on the box Reading objects shortcuts. 2. No, LibreOffice doesn't send to Iaccessible2 the shortcut of the objects which have one, such as ctrl-o, ctrl-p, ctrl-x, etc. Should I report this to bugzilla now? Regards, Le 12/12/2014 18:00, V Stuart Foote a écrit : @Tom, *, No, you're asking the right question. But you do need to look under the bonnet from time to time. Within the LibreOffice code there are two broad classes of keyboard accelerators. One is associated with the .uno action associated with each object in the user interface. The other are specific key functions defined globally. Most of the current implementation can be reviewed here: Other than the GenericCommands.xcu, different modules assign access keys as needed http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/officecfg/registry/data/org/openoffice/Office/UI/ These are the global keyboard accelerator/short-cut keys and each LibreOffice module responds in some fashion to them. The KEY_MOD1 and KEY_MOD2 differ depending on OS. http://opengrok.libreoffice.org/xref/core/vcl/source/window/keycod.cxx The native accessibility bridges handle only the first, the access keys. But does so pretty effectively at this point. Enhancement would be to do as Mozilla and Adobe (and I assume Google) have done, and simply label each menu item (or button) with its keyboard accelerator/short-cut key as appropriate for the function. The rub would come with needing to accommodate keys for each OS and possibly UI issues with the l10n/i18n support. -- View this message in context: http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/libreoffice-accessibility-Display-bindings-tp4131697p4132420.html Sent from the Accessibility mailing list archive at Nabble.com. -- Jean-Philippe MENGUAL accelibreinfo, votre partenaire en informatique adaptée aux déficients visuels Mail: te...@accelibreinfo.eu Site Web: http://www.accelibreinfo.eu -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Display bindings
Hi I'd say that it is a LibreOffice bug. To sighted users the key combination is displayed in the menus of LibreOffice but only the name is exposed to screen readers etc. Could you please file a bug and send me a note with the bug number so I can fill it with some more detailed information on the problem. /Niklas lördag 6 december 2014 skrev MENGUAL Jean-Philippe mengualjean...@free.fr: Hi, Still NVDA 2014.4, LO 4.3.4, Windows 7: is there a setting to display binding next to the commands which have one? Thus, on Linux, next to Open, I read Ctrl+O). I cannot read this info on NVDA. Is that a NVDA option? A LibreOffice option? Or just a bug? Do sighted people see the binding displayed? If it's a bug, does it concern NVDA? LibreOffice? Regards, -- Jean-Philippe MENGUAL accelibreinfo, votre partenaire en informatique adaptée aux déficients visuels Mail: te...@accelibreinfo.eu Site Web: http://www.accelibreinfo.eu -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to- unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: accessibility+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
