Re: [backstage] Freesat info for open source projects
Just monitoring the BBC Freesat thing... It seems that on 11.427Mhz (H 27.5, an Arqiva Mux) there are now four Freesat channels, Freesat home, Freesat Common C, Freesat SSU and Freesat OAD. Can anyone help with what an SSU or OAD is? Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv
Re: [backstage] Freesat info for open source projects
Dave Whitehead wrote: I'd keep an eye on a thread over at digitalspy from others are experimenting with the Freesat EPG data currentlty being transmitted. http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=751053 Thanks for pointing that out, I hadn't seen it. With a bit of tweaking I was able to get the testing EPG data into the Myth database. It seems it's simply standard EIT being broadcast on a non-standard PID, but that and the fact that the programme titles are, mostly, scrambled, may well be because it's just trial data. It was interesting to see the TVAnytime CRIDs in there as on Freeview. It all looks very encouraging. Of course, there will be people reading this mailing list who know all this and also the future plans and are probably feeling quite frustrated that they can't correct all the misapprehensions that are going round. David - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Freesat info for open source projects
On 11/02/2008, David Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Specifically, I wrote and maintain the MHEG engine that is used in MythTV. Awesome work - thank you! :-) -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Freesat info for open source projects
Hi David, The Freesat platform is being set up and managed by a separate company (of the same name) that has been set up by those participating (BBC, ITV etc). I've asked around the team at RD who are working with them on the technical infrastructure and specifications. Unfortunately it looks like the information you're after will not be widely available (at least not yet). What I've been able to establish is that Freesat identified the need to guarantee a supply of compliant set top boxes at launch. A group of manufacturers have agreed to do so, but only in exchange for a limited term of exclusive access to the specification. I have no idea what the length of this exclusivity arrangement will be. Personally, I would very much like to see these specs eventually opened up - we've certainly benefited from many of the open-source developments for DVB-T / Freeview. I believe Freesat are aware of this consideration, so I'm hoping it will be something they eventually choose to do. This is as much as I have been able to find out for you. Apologies for it taking a little while. Matt On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 12:58:55 -, David Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know if this is the right place to ask but I was wondering if there was information available about the technical details of Freesat that could be used in open source projects. Specifically, I wrote and maintain the MHEG engine that is used in MythTV. It appears that the BBC has started test transmissions on satellite of the MHEG interactive service. It's possible to view much of this using the current code in MythTV but it seems that the profile on Freesat is a superset of the Freeview profile so not everything works. Presumably information about this is available to the builders of set-top boxes but it would be nice if it could be available for open-source projects. There have also been references to the EPG information being transmitted but again there is nothing publicly available about how to decode it. Incidentally, I've been working on a translation of the MHEG engine from its original C++ into Java to produce an application/applet for viewing MHEG offline or via HTTP. I'm rather short of MHEG test programs although I have recorded some of the carousels off air. Does the BBC have some test programs available? David. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- | Matt Hammond | Research Engineer, FMT, BBC, Kingswood Warren, Tadworth, Surrey, UK | http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Freesat info for open source projects
Hi Matt, Thanks for taking the trouble to find out. I rather thought that there would be some issue of exclusive access to the specs. At least Freesat are aware of the issue. From the MHEG side I can at least experiment with the test streams that are already being transmitted and try to reverse engineer them. It mostly works already with the current code and I was actually alerted to the test streams by someone noticing the Press Red banner. What would be really nice would be to have some information that would allow MythTV to use the EPG information in Freesat. There have been hints about where the test transmissions might be found but nothing substantive. Clearly the success of Freesat depends on the involvement of the set-top box manufacturers. However, open source projects also have a role to play in providing testing and feedback. After all, at the moment probably the only people who can view the MHEG test transmissions, outside the labs, are MythTV users. Thanks again, David Matt Hammond wrote: Hi David, The Freesat platform is being set up and managed by a separate company (of the same name) that has been set up by those participating (BBC, ITV etc). I've asked around the team at RD who are working with them on the technical infrastructure and specifications. Unfortunately it looks like the information you're after will not be widely available (at least not yet). What I've been able to establish is that Freesat identified the need to guarantee a supply of compliant set top boxes at launch. A group of manufacturers have agreed to do so, but only in exchange for a limited term of exclusive access to the specification. I have no idea what the length of this exclusivity arrangement will be. Personally, I would very much like to see these specs eventually opened up - we've certainly benefited from many of the open-source developments for DVB-T / Freeview. I believe Freesat are aware of this consideration, so I'm hoping it will be something they eventually choose to do. This is as much as I have been able to find out for you. Apologies for it taking a little while. Matt On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 12:58:55 -, David Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know if this is the right place to ask but I was wondering if there was information available about the technical details of Freesat that could be used in open source projects. Specifically, I wrote and maintain the MHEG engine that is used in MythTV. It appears that the BBC has started test transmissions on satellite of the MHEG interactive service. It's possible to view much of this using the current code in MythTV but it seems that the profile on Freesat is a superset of the Freeview profile so not everything works. Presumably information about this is available to the builders of set-top boxes but it would be nice if it could be available for open-source projects. There have also been references to the EPG information being transmitted but again there is nothing publicly available about how to decode it. Incidentally, I've been working on a translation of the MHEG engine from its original C++ into Java to produce an application/applet for viewing MHEG offline or via HTTP. I'm rather short of MHEG test programs although I have recorded some of the carousels off air. Does the BBC have some test programs available? David. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Freesat info for open source projects
I'd keep an eye on a thread over at digitalspy from others are experimenting with the Freesat EPG data currentlty being transmitted. http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=751053 Dave - Original Message - From: David Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 11:29 AM Subject: Re: [backstage] Freesat info for open source projects Hi Matt, Thanks for taking the trouble to find out. I rather thought that there would be some issue of exclusive access to the specs. At least Freesat are aware of the issue. From the MHEG side I can at least experiment with the test streams that are already being transmitted and try to reverse engineer them. It mostly works already with the current code and I was actually alerted to the test streams by someone noticing the Press Red banner. What would be really nice would be to have some information that would allow MythTV to use the EPG information in Freesat. There have been hints about where the test transmissions might be found but nothing substantive. Clearly the success of Freesat depends on the involvement of the set-top box manufacturers. However, open source projects also have a role to play in providing testing and feedback. After all, at the moment probably the only people who can view the MHEG test transmissions, outside the labs, are MythTV users. Thanks again, David Matt Hammond wrote: Hi David, The Freesat platform is being set up and managed by a separate company (of the same name) that has been set up by those participating (BBC, ITV etc). I've asked around the team at RD who are working with them on the technical infrastructure and specifications. Unfortunately it looks like the information you're after will not be widely available (at least not yet). What I've been able to establish is that Freesat identified the need to guarantee a supply of compliant set top boxes at launch. A group of manufacturers have agreed to do so, but only in exchange for a limited term of exclusive access to the specification. I have no idea what the length of this exclusivity arrangement will be. Personally, I would very much like to see these specs eventually opened up - we've certainly benefited from many of the open-source developments for DVB-T / Freeview. I believe Freesat are aware of this consideration, so I'm hoping it will be something they eventually choose to do. This is as much as I have been able to find out for you. Apologies for it taking a little while. Matt On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 12:58:55 -, David Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know if this is the right place to ask but I was wondering if there was information available about the technical details of Freesat that could be used in open source projects. Specifically, I wrote and maintain the MHEG engine that is used in MythTV. It appears that the BBC has started test transmissions on satellite of the MHEG interactive service. It's possible to view much of this using the current code in MythTV but it seems that the profile on Freesat is a superset of the Freeview profile so not everything works. Presumably information about this is available to the builders of set-top boxes but it would be nice if it could be available for open-source projects. There have also been references to the EPG information being transmitted but again there is nothing publicly available about how to decode it. Incidentally, I've been working on a translation of the MHEG engine from its original C++ into Java to produce an application/applet for viewing MHEG offline or via HTTP. I'm rather short of MHEG test programs although I have recorded some of the carousels off air. Does the BBC have some test programs available? David. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Freesat info for open source projects
Brian Butterworth wrote: Any chance you could get it to plug into the Windows Meda Center? Not having MHEG is a bit annoying. I can't say because I don't have Windows Media Centre. Although the MHEG engine in Myth is a more-or-less independent library there is the need for a glue module that does things like producing the screen image in a form required by the Myth on-screen-display code and picking up key/remote-control presses. Does Windows Media Centre have support for DSMCC? If not you're going to have to add that first. David. P.S. I'm trying again as I originally sent this from a different email address and I don't think it got through the first time. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Freesat info for open source projects
On 14/02/2008, David Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brian Butterworth wrote: Any chance you could get it to plug into the Windows Meda Center? Not having MHEG is a bit annoying. I can't say because I don't have Windows Media Centre. Although the MHEG engine in Myth is a more-or-less independent library there is the need for a glue module that does things like producing the screen image in a form required by the Myth on-screen-display code and picking up key/remote-control presses. Does Windows Media Centre have support for DSMCC? If not you're going to have to add that first. It would appear so, it seems to be part of DirectX9. http://msdn.microsoft.com/archive/default.asp?url=/archive/en-us/directx9_c_Summer_03/directX/htm/dsmcc_section.asp David. P.S. I'm trying again as I originally sent this from a different email address and I don't think it got through the first time. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv
Re: [backstage] Freesat info for open source projects
Brian Butterworth wrote: On 14/02/2008, David Matthews [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brian Butterworth wrote: Any chance you could get it to plug into the Windows Meda Center? Not having MHEG is a bit annoying. I can't say because I don't have Windows Media Centre. Although the MHEG engine in Myth is a more-or-less independent library there is the need for a glue module that does things like producing the screen image in a form required by the Myth on-screen-display code and picking up key/remote-control presses. Does Windows Media Centre have support for DSMCC? If not you're going to have to add that first. It would appear so, it seems to be part of DirectX9. http://msdn.microsoft.com/archive/default.asp?url=/archive/en-us/directx9_c_Summer_03/directX/htm/dsmcc_section.asp That just gives the layout of the header of a DSM-CC section (table) when it is sent as part of an MPEG stream. There is some example code that shows how to extract it from the stream: http://msdn.microsoft.com/archive/default.asp?url=/archive/en-us/directx9_c/directx/htm/gettingmpeg2psitables.asp I could not find any reference to any code within Direct X which actually takes these sections and builds the carousel. You could adapt the DSMCC code in Myth. Since it, along with the MHEG code, are open source you can use them in any way that's compatible with GPL. David. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
