be more comfortable with a forum. I'm really not sure what the motive
for NOT wanting a forum is, other than people being set in their ways
and unwilling to accommodate people less technically proficient as they are.
Now, the title of this thread is OK, the forum is coming.. because I
thought
On 7/25/07, Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Um... That doesn't seem to get Gmail to thread the messages at all. You're
solution is Just don't use Gmail. Duh!. That's not a valid answer to my
question. Before you suggest it, the following is also an invalid response:
use Outlook or
You are talking about flat, web forum style threading, though. What he wants
is tree style threading like in the ML archives, Slashdot comments etc.
Ortwin
On 7/26/07, vivek khurana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 7/25/07, Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Um... That doesn't seem to get Gmail
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Valerio Bruno wrote:
Forum is a better tool for heavy communication than ML, and it's the only one
That it is a better tool is just an assertion that I don't concur with.
usable by non-technic newbie user (like a 14 years old boy that plays with
Andreas Kostyrka [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Now, a newbie forum is fine, do as you like. Although one might argue
that you are splitting the community in two.
The problem is that you need a communication tool that is appropriate
for newbies. And it must be appropriate for power user, or you'll
Ehrm.. try looking at the settings, maybe you habe simply deactivated it.
Because for me it works pretty fine with the threated view.
oh, yes, and by the way, the possibility to format text and include
images/links/wathever would be really good for the average user.
On 7/25/07, Steven ** [EMAIL
I've been mostly silent in this discussion (partially because it's taken me
two days to catch up on it), but I have some thoughts/questions.
The gist of the argument for email seems to be:
1. You can download all the messages and view them offline
2. Standalone email clients group messages by
On 7/25/07, Steven ** [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So, my questions:
1. Is there a way to get Gmail to thread the messages based on who it was
in response to?
Yup, admins can set archiving at www.gmane.org. This way you will have
archiving as well as threaded view
regards
VK
Um... That doesn't seem to get Gmail to thread the messages at all. You're
solution is Just don't use Gmail. Duh!. That's not a valid answer to my
question. Before you suggest it, the following is also an invalid response:
use Outlook or Thunderbird and download all your messages via POP.
I
WARNING: replies to multiple messages
Richard said:
If they were interested in developing, they would follow the wiki as it
is the only source for finding development specs, cvs links, walkthroughs,
etc.
Some of us are waiting for hardware... don't get me wrong, you can do a lot
with an
On 25 Jul 2007, at 19:56, Jeff Andros wrote:
WARNING: replies to multiple messages
Richard said:
If they were interested in developing, they would follow the wiki
as it is the only source for finding development specs, cvs links,
walkthroughs, etc.
Some of us are waiting for
On 7/24/07, wim delvaux [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tuesday 24 July 2007 02:08:32 Daniel Robinson wrote:
I already use my browser to read my email. I use Gmail to handle the
mail
from my domain. I can read it at home, at the coffee house or at my day
job.
great for you but AFAIK almost
Sebastian Krause ha scritto:
Valerio Bruno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't think that google provides nntp, but you can ask gmane to
create an nntp gateway.
I'm trying gmane nntp interface to community list and it doesn't support
thread! all messages are ordered just by date.
You're using
On 7/24/07, Ted Lemon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Worrying about your email address being exposed is pretty silly.
That's like worrying that the ice on a pond will break when it melts in
the spring and your house will fall in. Don't build your house on ice.
Exactly, build it on solid ground (a
The fact that you are subscribed to 20 different mailing lists and you would
find it difficult to read all of that information on 20 different forum UIs
is your issue, and it is not the responsibility of this community to
address.
To state, axiomatically, that mailing lists are more efficient
On Jul 24, 2007, at 7:45 PM, Daniel Robinson wrote:
The goal is communication, not rightness. How is communication
best served?
duh, use both mailing lists and forums. any new forum post - new
post to the list. and vice versa.
my vote, if we can't get that working, is to do both,
On 7/24/07, Daniel Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The fact that you are subscribed to 20 different mailing lists and you would
find it difficult to read all of that information on 20 different forum UIs
is your issue, and it is not the responsibility of this community to
address.
To state,
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Well, the point is that mail clients are tuned for text communication.
Webbrowsers are tuned to present a page or application downloaded from a
server.
Andreas
Daniel Robinson wrote:
The fact that you are subscribed to 20 different mailing lists
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Hans L wrote:
I'm guessing that's not what you really meant, but I'm still not sure
your point is. Are you saying that if you don't want your email
address harvested by spammers, then you should not participate in
discussions about openmoko at
a forum
for the users.
_
From: Daniel Robinson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 24 juillet 2007 13:46
To: community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: OK, the forum is coming..
The fact that you are subscribed to 20 different mailing lists and you would
find it difficult to read all
Jay Vaughan wrote:
On Jul 24, 2007, at 7:45 PM, Daniel Robinson wrote:
The goal is communication, not rightness. How is communication best
served?
duh, use both mailing lists and forums. any new forum post - new
post to the list. and vice versa.
That was my thought too. Anyone
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
www.google.com? (Hint: add a site:openmoko.com or so to your query)
Andreas
Jacques Poulin wrote:
Is there a web form to search the mailing lists ?
I didn't find it, and didn't want to ask if that had been asked before,
but since I can't find
.
--
*From:* Daniel Robinson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*Sent:* 24 juillet 2007 13:46
*To:* community@lists.openmoko.org
*Subject:* Re: OK, the forum is coming..
The fact that you are subscribed to 20 different mailing lists and you
would find it difficult to read all of that information
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Well, mailman (which openmoko uses) has integrated support for Usenet
gatewaying.
That would add one further option for people that want to keep up with
the communication at their own pace.
Plus there seem to a number of web - nntp tools where one
Ted Lemon wrote:
Quite frankly I am completely, totally,
overwhelmingly baffled at the resistance to the forums. Quite a few
people have expressed their dislikes of mailing lists and how they were
*very* reluctant (like myself) to join.
Worrying about your email address being exposed
On Tue, Jul 24, 2007 at 10:45:32AM -0700, Daniel Robinson wrote:
The fact that you are subscribed to 20 different mailing lists and you would
find it difficult to read all of that information on 20 different forum's
is your issue, and it is not the responsibility of this community to
address.
Andreas Kostyrka wrote:
To put it differently, there is at least one Linux based gadget that I
use, that I'd probably put some time into it (it's my sat receiver ;) ),
where I don't participate, because the community organizes around a
forum. Well, end effect the community is very static and
On Tue, Jul 24, 2007 at 02:07:03PM -0500, Jonathon Suggs wrote:
[...]
The bottom line is that mailing lists are not an acceptable means of
communicating with technical novices. AGAIN, we are not talking about
discontinuing the development list (that is/should be used by
*developers*). We
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Not arrogance or snobbery -- different view of reality.
At this point, openmoko *is* a development project. It's emphatically not
for Joe and Jane -- it says so on the web site, where you order your phone.
There are disclaimers all over the place. It's not even for
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Well, then, why not have forums for people who want them, and leave email
for people who don't want them? The thing is, it doesn't work very well in
practice. If experience is any guide, then the technically knowledgable
people will use email, and won't waste
The general tone on this item of discussion is This is what I want/need,
therefore, that is the best solution (for everybody). What I have not seen
is any concession to gather information. What I have seen is a lot of
data-free analysis.
What I would like to see is some examination of the
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Well, you started to get personal.
Now, a newbie forum is fine, do as you like. Although one might argue
that you are splitting the community in two.
The problem is that you need a communication tool that is appropriate
for newbies. And it must be
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Jonathon Suggs wrote:
Well, I've said it before and I will say it again. We are not wanting
to kill the mailing lists!!! We are wanting to supplement the mailing
list with a forum. I cannot see ANY reason why this would be a bad thing.
Well,
on.
Just my 2 cents
Richard Reichenbacher
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andreas Kostyrka
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 1:23 PM
To: Jonathon Suggs
Cc: Jacques Poulin; community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: OK, the forum is coming..
-BEGIN
: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andreas
Kostyrka
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 1:23 PM
To: Jonathon Suggs
Cc: Jacques Poulin; community@lists.openmoko.org
Subject: Re: OK, the forum is coming..
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Jonathon Suggs wrote:
Well, I've
On 7/24/07, Richard Reichenbacher [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If they were interested in developing, they would follow the wiki as it is
the
only source for finding development specs, cvs links, walkthroughs, etc.
Flaw in your logic: One has to post to the wiki to follow it. I'm very
sure you
A gateway would not work. Forums and mailing lists are two quite
different means of communication. In a forum you can edit things, move
them, delete them. Also, discussing in a flat view doesn't only look
different, it works differently. Also, if you connect both, you get
all the trash
On Tue, 2007-07-24 at 19:19 +0200, Andreas Kostyrka wrote:
No, it's just habits. And it's not about Engineers, it's about long
time email users.
What, that they never actually read what anyone writes, but just skim it
looking for something that they can flame about?
Come on guys, read for
On Tue, 2007-07-24 at 12:33 -0500, Hans L wrote:
Are you saying that if you don't want your email
address harvested by spammers, then you should not participate in
discussions about openmoko at all? Keeping your email address private
IS a valid reason for the use of forums.
No, I'm saying
Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:
Sebastian Krause wrote:
Torfinn Ingolfsen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I guess asking for a forum -- NNTP gateway would be asking too much?
No: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community
Hey, that was very nifty indeed!
Lets see if this is a
Torfinn Ingolfsen wrote:
(sbup)
I guess asking for a forum -- NNTP gateway would be asking too much?
There's already the possibility of reading the list as a NNTP group via the
gmane news servers... personally I don't like webbased forums.
___
Jano wrote:
There's already the possibility of reading the list as a NNTP group via the
gmane news servers... personally I don't like webbased forums.
Just tried it, great service !
Mickael.
___
OpenMoko community mailing list
Joe Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
And people who remember the term usenet can even look at it with a
proper news reader.
I don't think that google provides nntp, but you can ask gmane to
create an nntp gateway. See the sympy group for an example
http://groups.google.com/group/sympy
Messaggio Originale
Oggetto: Re: OK, the forum is coming..
Data: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:14:31 +0200
Da: Valerio Bruno [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Niels L. Ellegaard ha scritto:
Joe Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
And people who remember the term usenet can even look
Hello,
On 7/23/07, Valerio Bruno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'm trying gmane nntp interface to community list and it doesn't support
thread! all messages are ordered just by date. So it's the same as
reading the messages in own mailbox. Doh.
Hmm, which newsreader are you using? I'm using
: OK, the forum is coming..
Data: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:14:31 +0200
Da: Valerio Bruno [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Niels L. Ellegaard ha scritto:
Joe Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
And people who remember the term usenet can even look at it with a
proper news reader.
I don't think that google provides
The functionality is too close to a mailing list really... It would be
another means of communication from the dark times of the internet which
most developers, old people and nerds might love. It wouldn't help in any
way to expand the community, though.
We are NOT looking for a way to replace
Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't like the tree style of discussion. It kind of makes sense on a
mailing list. However, I find it unnatural and exhausting to navigate. Old
school people who prefer threaded view have got the mailing list, I am of
the strong opinion that we should go
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Niels L. Ellegaard) wrote:
Joe Pfeiffer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
And people who remember the term usenet can even look at it with a
proper news reader.
I don't think that google provides nntp, but you can ask gmane to
create an nntp gateway. See the sympy group for an
Valerio Bruno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't think that google provides nntp, but you can ask gmane to
create an nntp gateway.
I'm trying gmane nntp interface to community list and it doesn't support
thread! all messages are ordered just by date.
You're using Thunderbird, and it supports
Maybe you're right, and the whole point is here: mailing lists are for
geeks and forums are for all other people. We should then have a web
based forum.
On 7/23/07, Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The functionality is too close to a mailing list really... It would be
another means of
On Tuesday 24 July 2007 00:06:55 Mickael Faivre-Macon wrote:
Maybe you're right, and the whole point is here: mailing lists are for
geeks and forums are for all other people. We should then have a web
based forum.
Are you sure ? I find personally a mailing is much easier. You get the
I already use my browser to read my email. I use Gmail to handle the mail
from my domain. I can read it at home, at the coffee house or at my day
job.
The argument that you have to start your browser seems thin to me. What is
a mail reader if not an application as complex as a browser?
A
Maybe you're right, and the whole point is here: mailing lists are for
geeks and forums are for all other people. We should then have a web
based forum.
Are you sure ? I find personally a mailing is much easier. You get the
messages with your regular mail, you can sort them to a
On Tuesday 24 July 2007 02:08:32 Daniel Robinson wrote:
I already use my browser to read my email. I use Gmail to handle the mail
from my domain. I can read it at home, at the coffee house or at my day
job.
great for you but AFAIK almost all ISP offer reading mail from their web page
so
I like Invision but a properly managed phpBB is nice, too. Only had bad
experiences with the ones that weren't kept up to date.
What will happen if an official forum is being made? Are you prepared to
move all the content (and possibly software) over to the official servers?
Maybe we should try
Ortwin Regel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I like Invision but a properly managed phpBB is nice, too. Only had bad
experiences with the ones that weren't kept up to date.What will happen if an
official forum is being made? Are you prepared to move all the content (and
possibly software) over
Giles Jones ha scritto:
The number of these users can me minimised by having a very good manual.
This is false imho.
I know that people don't read manuals often but that's because
troubleshooting sections are always stuck at the back. Have a special
separate troubleshooting manual and they
I agree with Valerio's (humble) opinion. Having a static manual would have
problems due to the dynamic situation of the software. (The reason wiki's
were born!) We need to have an official forum, as questions will be asked
and it will strengthen the community. forums.openmoko.org I believe is
Daniel Robinson ha scritto:
The COGS on this phone should be around $100-110. FIC will make money,
but won't make a lot of money unless they sell a lot of them. They are
leveraging their expertise, manufacturing, and if they manufacture
something that doesn't sell, that is wasted
On 7/22/07, Valerio Bruno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sorry for ignorance but what are COGS ? building costs at FIC?
An accounting term. Wikipedia is your friend:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_goods_sold
I had to look it up too...
--
Regards,
Torfinn
On 22 Jul 2007, at 09:47, Kyle Bassett wrote:
I agree with Valerio's (humble) opinion. Having a static manual
would have problems due to the dynamic situation of the software.
(The reason wiki's were born!) We need to have an official forum,
as questions will be asked and it will
COGS = cost of goods shipped
Sorry to be off topic.
Yes, we need a forum,
On 7/22/07, Valerio Bruno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Daniel Robinson ha scritto:
The COGS on this phone should be around $100-110. FIC will make money,
but won't make a lot of money unless they sell a lot of them.
Dnia sobota, 21 lipca 2007, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller napisał:
Well, I would suggest to use the existing Open Embedded forum
(previously this was the Zaurus User Group): www.oesf.org and ask to
create new subsections there
OESF forums are NOT OpenEmbedded forums. It is common mistake.
--
Am 22.07.2007 um 21:19 schrieb Marcin Juszkiewicz:
Dnia sobota, 21 lipca 2007, Dr. H. Nikolaus Schaller napisał:
Well, I would suggest to use the existing Open Embedded forum
(previously this was the Zaurus User Group): www.oesf.org and ask to
create new subsections there
OESF forums are
Valerio Bruno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sebastian Krause [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Not for me because it doesn't provide a threaded view, scoring
etc.
I don't understand your sentence. Forums haven't threaded view ?!
Anyway...
As far as I could see it in all phpBB forums until now, the
On 7/22/07, Sebastian Krause [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
As far as I could see it in all phpBB forums until now, the messages
are sorted by the date and time are posted, but by whom they're
answering to.
I think you meant to say:
As far as I could see it in all phpBB forums until now, the
Moin,
Am Sat, 21 Jul 2007 23:31:55 + (UTC) schrieb Valerio Bruno:
I don't understand your sentence. Forums haven't threaded view ?!
Anyway...
Yes, in my (and probably Sebastian's) part of the Internet, phpBB does
not count as a threaded forum.
Based on
On 7/22/07, Joe Friedrichsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In regards to my suggestions, both LQ and Google groups keep
discussions flat like a phpBB board. You can of course quote people to
explicitly bring context to your reply.
Actually, Google Groups //does// support properly threaded reading
I don't like the tree style of discussion. It kind of makes sense on a
mailing list. However, I find it unnatural and exhausting to navigate. Old
school people who prefer threaded view have got the mailing list, I am of
the strong opinion that we should go with a flat forum for accessibility.
What about creating a google group ?
You can still receive each mail individually if you want, or watch it
as a forum.
Everybody is happy.
Mickael.
___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
On 7/22/07, Mickael Faivre-Macon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What about creating a google group ?
You can still receive each mail individually if you want, or watch it
as a forum.
Everybody is happy.
And have the threaded view for those that want it. You can view flat as well
threaded:
Joe Friedrichsen writes:
On 7/22/07, Mickael Faivre-Macon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What about creating a google group ?
You can still receive each mail individually if you want, or watch it
as a forum.
Everybody is happy.
And have the threaded view for those that want it. You can view flat as
i'm tired to read discussion about forum is good or bad.
i think is good:
- can be a central point for new users (users NOT developers)
- following a thread in a forum it's a lot simpler
- it can have email notification for reply
- could be a central point for developers too!
- other motivations
Am 21.07.2007 um 16:46 schrieb Valerio Bruno:
i'm tired to read discussion about forum is good or bad.
Me too - it is not important if it is good or bad or forum vs. list.
It is important that there are enough community members who want to
have it *in addition* to this list.
i think is
I agree, a forum is a good idea! More organized and easier searched (without
putting that job entirely on the user's end) than a mailing list.
I prefer PHPbb, definitely. Invision is more fancy, but I am always seeing
those things screw up.
Bye,
-Dylan McCall
On 7/21/07, Valerio Bruno [EMAIL
A quick search on google showed this:
http://www.midgard-project.org/discussion/developer-forum/forum-to-mailing_list_integration/
I think whatever official openmoko supported communication technique is used
needs to allow users the ability to choose how they access the information.
There is no
Hello,
On 7/21/07, Valerio Bruno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
i'm tired to read discussion about forum is good or bad.
Do you prefer phpBB or Invision ? personally i prefer the former.
I couldn't care less about which system to choose, but I have one
wish; make it as fast and usable as possible,
Valerio Bruno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
- following a thread in a forum it's a lot simpler
Not for me because it doesn't provide a threaded view, scoring
etc. There's nothing more comfortable than reading this list in your
favorite news reader by Gmane.
- could be a central point for developers
Torfinn Ingolfsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I guess asking for a forum -- NNTP gateway would be asking too much?
No: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community
___
OpenMoko community mailing list
community@lists.openmoko.org
On Saturday 21 July 2007, Valerio Bruno wrote:
i'm tired to read discussion about forum is good or bad.
i think is good:
- can be a central point for new users (users NOT developers)
- following a thread in a forum it's a lot simpler
- it can have email notification for reply
- could be a
On 7/21/07, Valerio Bruno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
i'm tired to read discussion about forum is good or bad.
i think is good:
- can be a central point for new users (users NOT developers)
- following a thread in a forum it's a lot simpler
- it can have email notification for reply
- could be a
Werner hinted at an official forums.openmoko.org. If people would just want
something temporary, I could probably get an FIC or Linux subform created at
http://www.howardforums.com/ (500,000 members). There are developers and
network engineers that post there that can result in great
With news readers in mind, I have one wish for the forums: Really good
syndication, either with RSS or Atom feeds.
On 7/21/07, Adam Krikstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Werner hinted at an official forums.openmoko.org. If people would just
want something temporary, I could probably get an FIC
(Sydney in-dial).
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Adam
Krikstone
Sent: Saturday, 21 July 2007 2:38 PM
To: OpenMoko
Subject: Re: OK, the forum is coming..
Werner hinted at an official forums.openmoko.org. If people would just
want something
Sebastian Krause wrote:
Torfinn Ingolfsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I guess asking for a forum -- NNTP gateway would be asking too much?
No: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.openmoko.community
Hey, that was very nifty indeed!
Lets see if this is a two-way gateway as well.
--
Sebastian Krause [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Not for me because it doesn't provide a threaded view, scoring
etc.
I don't understand your sentence. Forums haven't threaded view ?!
Anyway...
And btw, you actually *can* already use this list as a web forum if
you want, and actually in a
On 22 Jul 2007, at 00:31, Valerio Bruno wrote
By the way, in the long run we'll need a real, user-friendly forum
to address
non-tech-friendly user.
The number of these users can me minimised by having a very good manual.
I know that people don't read manuals often but that's because
On 7/22/07, Giles Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The number of these users can me minimised by having a very good manual.
We can all start it and then publish it easily with a online publisher
like lulu.
http://www.lulu.com/
http://www.lulu.com/author/create.php
By the way, does FIC plan to
On 22 Jul 2007, at 01:13, Mickael Faivre-Macon wrote:
By the way, does FIC plan to make money out of the neo ?
Like selling manuals ? Or whatever ?
They'll make money on the hardware. Developing a good smartphone OS
costs quite a bit of money.
The COGS on this phone should be around $100-110. FIC will make money, but
won't make a lot of money unless they sell a lot of them. They are
leveraging their expertise, manufacturing, and if they manufacture something
that doesn't sell, that is wasted manufacturing resources.
I think the
91 matches
Mail list logo
