Re: all about transferable off-line ecash (Re: Brands off-line tech)

2002-04-11 Thread Anonymous
[By forwarding this mail to the DBS list, Robert Hettinga agrees that he is an arrogant, obnoxious, power-hungry asshole with no moral integrity whatsoever.] Adam Back wrote: On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 06:17:06PM +0200, Anonymous wrote: And second, because the deposit is unlinkable to the

Re: How do we trust bits?

2002-04-11 Thread Jim Choate
On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Pat Farrell wrote: Alice trusts money because she can get ice cream cones. Incorrect, she trusts money because she knows the vendor trusts the money. Why? Because they are members in a large (reasonably) stable environment with (relatively) low threat percentages. If it's

P.Trei's credibility a fantasy

2002-04-11 Thread matthew X
Further, placing the notes in a simple aluminum foil pouch, or a wallet with equivalent lining, would cut any detectable signals by maybe 30-50 dB. Most people don't, and won't do this. You may not worry about the sheeple, but I do. Where does this corporado PIG FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT get

Efforts to copyprotect browsers doomed.Andreeson

2002-04-11 Thread matthew X
'Andreeson' rhymes with 'shadenfraude.' http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/3031836.htm Andreessen: Copy protection efforts are doomed By Dawn C. Chmielewski Mercury News LAS VEGAS - Netscape co-founder Marc Andreessen told the nation's broadcasters that efforts to copy protect music,

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2002-04-11 Thread Immune I. Q.
Nearly everything that goes wrong with us, with the exception of trauma - i.e. broken bones etc., can be traced directly to an immune system failure Rob Robertson, M.D. Do you know anybody that has Allergies, Asthma, Chronic Fatigue, Sinusitis , Rheumatoid Arthritis, Type 1 Diabetes,

SF Bay Area Cypherpunks April 2002 - Berkeley - Physical Meeting Announcement

2002-04-11 Thread Bill Stewart
SF Bay Area Cypherpunks April 2002 Physical Meeting Announcement General Info: DATE: Saturday 12 April 2002 TIME: 12:00 - 5:00 PM (Pacific Time) PLACE: Boalt Hall Rm. 140 Bancroft Piedmont Berkeley Agenda:Our agenda is a widely-held secret. As usual, this is an Open

Re: Detectable cash notes a fantasy

2002-04-11 Thread Eugen Leitl
On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Tim May wrote: How come? Because I am assuming the transponders are in the same position on each bill. If you want to posit some spatial diversity model, that helps, but not but a huge amount. This sounds too science fictionish to actually deploy (transponders are not

Tim's occasional .signature

2002-04-11 Thread Bill Stewart
At 06:53 PM 04/10/2002 -0700, and a number of other times, Tim May wrote: --Tim May Dogs can't conceive of a group of cats without an alpha cat. --David Honig, on the Cypherpunks list, 2001-11 I've got three cats, and one of them very definitely is the alpha cat. On the other hand, there's a

SF Bay Area Cypherpunks April 13 2002 - Berkeley - Date Correction

2002-04-11 Thread Bill Stewart
SF Bay Area Cypherpunks April 2002 Physical Meeting Announcement Sorry for the triskadekaphobia - Saturday is of course the 13th of April 2002. General Info: DATE: Saturday 13 April 2002 TIME: 12:00 - 5:00 PM (Pacific Time) PLACE: Boalt Hall Rm. 140 Bancroft Piedmont

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2002-04-11 Thread ±è¿µ°ï
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2002-04-11 Thread ±è±âÁß
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Re: Coins vs. bills

2002-04-11 Thread Ken Brown
For some reason the mention of a Susan B Anthony dollar stuck in my brain as an Alice B Sheldon dollar. Susan Anthony is a person who I've never heard of. I'm almost tempted not to find out who she is or was to preserve a nugget of delicious cognitive dissonance. A world in which governments put

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2002-04-11 Thread argy
Title: Investors This message has been sent to you in compliance with our strict anti-abuse regulations. We will continue to bring you valuable offers on the products and services that interest you most. If you do not wish to receive

Re: Coins vs. bills

2002-04-11 Thread Tim May
On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 04:24 AM, Ken Brown wrote: For some reason the mention of a Susan B Anthony dollar stuck in my brain as an Alice B Sheldon dollar. Susan Anthony is a person who I've never heard of. I'm almost tempted not to find out who she is or was to preserve a nugget of

PKI Labs (Re: all about transferable off-line ecash)

2002-04-11 Thread Adam Back
On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 06:41:52PM -0700, Mike Rosing wrote: On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Adam Back wrote: btw I did a google search for PKILAB and Brands to see if I could find anything along the lines you mention and look what it said: Mar 2001 Welcome Stefan Brands to PKILabs Advisory Board

overcoming ecash deployment problems (Re: all about transferable off-line ecash)

2002-04-11 Thread Adam Back
New thread about deployment barriers to explore the topic of whether there are now more internet services and technologies that would allow us to get closer to deployment of ecash. (It would be about time you'd think). On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 08:30:07AM +0200, Anonymous wrote: [...] Of course

Re: overcoming ecash deployment problems (Re: all about transferable off-line ecash)

2002-04-11 Thread Mike Rosing
On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Adam Back wrote: Well I also am pretty anti-patent, especially the xor-cursor and business process kind, but at least these ecash patents are not frivolous patents (well Chaum's RSA blinding online scheme may look pretty simple once you've seen it but Brands stuff is

Re: overcoming ecash deployment problems (Re: all about transferable off-line ecash)

2002-04-11 Thread Adam Shostack
On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 02:37:50PM +0100, Adam Back wrote: | - deployment / chicken and egg problem (merchants want lots of users | before they're interested users want wide merchant acceptance before | their interested) I think its worse than that. The normal technology adoption curve is that

Re: overcoming ecash deployment problems (Re: all about transferableoff-line ecash)

2002-04-11 Thread Julian Assange
Patent's aren't the problem - price of royalty is. If Brands is willing No Patents are a problem. The total future cost, including the costs of all license negotiations and compliance burdens are unpredictable and consequently do not make a wise investment. Futher, companies view patent

Re: overcoming ecash deployment problems (Re: all about transferable off-line ecash)

2002-04-11 Thread Steve Schear
At 01:14 AM 4/12/2002 +1000, Julian Assange wrote: Patent's aren't the problem - price of royalty is. If Brands is willing No Patents are a problem. The total future cost, including the costs of all license negotiations and compliance burdens are unpredictable and consequently do not make a

Re: Bill Stewart is an alpha cat?

2002-04-11 Thread Faustine
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Someone wrote: The actual meaning, less succintly phrased, is that those who define themselves by their position in a hierarchical organizational chart cannot conceive of a social structure (such as a discussion group) which is without a leader.

Re: Detectable cash notes a fantasy

2002-04-11 Thread Tim May
On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 07:07 AM, Trei, Peter wrote: [1. Agreed, this thread has lost steam. 2. It always amazes me how often people on this list will handwave and speculate on subjects which a few minutes with Google will settle. Too often, we're like the medieval academics who

Re: overcoming ecash deployment problems (Re: all about transferable off-line ecash)

2002-04-11 Thread Tim May
[Digital Bearer Settlement [EMAIL PROTECTED] address removed.] On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 06:37 AM, Adam Back wrote: New thread about deployment barriers to explore the topic of whether there are now more internet services and technologies that would allow us to get closer to

Re: overcoming ecash deployment problems (Re: all about transferable off-line ecash)

2002-04-11 Thread Tim May
On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 06:59 AM, Mike Rosing wrote: On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Adam Back wrote: Well I also am pretty anti-patent, especially the xor-cursor and business process kind, but at least these ecash patents are not frivolous patents (well Chaum's RSA blinding online scheme may

Re: Detectable cash notes a fantasy

2002-04-11 Thread Sunder
On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Eugen Leitl wrote: I could imagine airlines screening for this, though, as a big RFID splash would invite you to become a target for random searches, and a prospective target for confiscation. Better yet, rather than nuke your rfids, try to extract them out of the

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2002-04-11 Thread ÁÖ
Title: :::TIN TEEN ENGLISH ¾È³çÇϽʴϱî? DM Academy ÀÇ À¥Áö±â ÀÔ´Ï´Ù. µû¶æÇÑ º½À» ±â´ëÇߴµ¥. º½Àº ¿ÀÁö¾Ê°í ¿©¸§ÀÌ ¿ì¸®¿¡°Ô

Re: Bill Stewart is an alpha cat?

2002-04-11 Thread Morlock Elloi
(If there is a cp movement, it is the raising of the middle finger above the closed fist, in the direction of oppression.) http://www.lemuria.org/DeArt/Sep/001.gif = end (of original message) Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with

RE: Detectable cash notes a fantasy

2002-04-11 Thread Trei, Peter
-- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 11:24 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Detectable cash notes a fantasy Go and read 'Repent Harlequin! Cried the Tick-Tock Man' by PK Dick for a particularly slackless

Re: Bill Stewart is an alpha cat?

2002-04-11 Thread Morlock Elloi
The fact that it hasn't worked out as well as it might is a testament to just how strong our ape legacy is: the weak and stupid are at the mercy of the strong and cunning and always will be. Here there and everywhere, from Dumbiosity on the rise. Weak and stupid is a universal losing

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2002-04-11 Thread Morlock Elloi
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RE: Among the Bourgeoisophobes

2002-04-11 Thread Trei, Peter
Can you give a cite? Peter Trei -- From: John Young[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 5:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Among the Bourgeoisophobes Frederick Kagan, a historian at the US Military Academy, argued in a talk

Re: How do we trust bits?

2002-04-11 Thread Nomen Nescio
Changing trust to believe advances the discussion not one whit. Alice trusts Bob to sign keys accurately; Alice believes that Bob signs keys accurately. The change doesn't add anything. In fact if anything it's a step backwards. Trust is a specific form of belief; it is a belief on which the

RE: Among the Bourgeoisophobes

2002-04-11 Thread John Young
Frederick Kagan spoke at the Princeton Club, New York City, Tuesday evening, April 9, 2002. http://www.princetonclub.com American Heritage Lecture Series -- Special Guest Frederick W. Kagan After September 11: Terrorism and the Enduring Bases of American Defense Strategy Details: Join us

Re: overcoming ecash deployment problems (Re: all about transferable off-line ecash)

2002-04-11 Thread A. Melon
Tim May [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 06:59 AM, Mike Rosing wrote: But the reason we have AC today is because Tesla requested no royalties on his motor/generator. Something for Brands to think about. No, we have AC because AC works better than DC in home

Re: How do we trust bits?

2002-04-11 Thread Mike Rosing
On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Nomen Nescio wrote: Changing trust to believe advances the discussion not one whit. Alice trusts Bob to sign keys accurately; Alice believes that Bob signs keys accurately. The change doesn't add anything. In fact if anything it's a step backwards. Trust is a

Re: Detectable cash notes a fantasy

2002-04-11 Thread Sampo Syreeni
On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Tim May wrote: How come? True, if a bill is idealized as being planar, you'll have trouble on the plane. Spatial diversity will take care of that. Otherwise, a common note has plenty of surface to do your thing on. Especially at higher frequencies, like UHF and beyond.

Re: Among the Bourgeoisophobes

2002-04-11 Thread keyser-soze
[We can propable expect a new Operation Northwoods from Kagan, et al soon] Frederick Kagan, a historian at the US Military Academy, argued in a talk recently that the US needs to: More than double its defense expenditures; Ignore the Europeans and other allies due to their military

R.A. as A.J. (was Re: all about transferable off-line ecash (Re: Brands off-line tech))

2002-04-11 Thread R. A. Hettinga
At 8:30 AM +0200 on 4/11/02, Anonymous exfumed out of Vienna again: [By forwarding this mail to the DBS list, Done... Robert Hettinga agrees that he is an arrogant, Check... obnoxious, Check... power-hungry Check... asshole Walter-Brennan-as-Stinky-Pete Now yew wait jes' a

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Re: overcoming ecash deployment problems (Re: all about transferable off-line ecash)

2002-04-11 Thread georgemw
On 11 Apr 2002 at 12:48, A. Melon wrote: Tim May [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 06:59 AM, Mike Rosing wrote: But the reason we have AC today is because Tesla requested no royalties on his motor/generator. Something for Brands to think about. No, we

Re: overcoming ecash deployment problems (Re: all about transferable off-line ecash)

2002-04-11 Thread Pat Farrell
At 10:57 AM 4/11/2002 -0400, Adam Shostack wrote: Thus, ecash deployment is a 3 party problem, where most new technologies that succeed are not. Actually, it is worse than this. Credit cards are a four party transaction. Mostly for historical reasons, but still, the customer's card is

Re: overcoming ecash deployment problems (Re: all about transferable off-line ecash)

2002-04-11 Thread Adam Back
I just wrote: If they grew large enough their acceptance, or an ecash system backed in them, might spill over into the real world and allow purchase of services on the web, or even physical goods. To be more concrete: there are already apparently e-gold backed credit cards. So why not

They laughed at Tesla

2002-04-11 Thread Tim May
On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 12:48 PM, A. Melon wrote: Tim May [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 06:59 AM, Mike Rosing wrote: But the reason we have AC today is because Tesla requested no royalties on his motor/generator. Something for Brands to think about.

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Re: CDR: Re: Among the Bourgeoisophobes

2002-04-11 Thread F. Marc de Piolenc
Gil Hamilton wrote: F. Marc de Piolenc forwards: Among the Bourgeoisophobes Why the Europeans and Arabs, each in their own way, hate America and Israel. http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/102gwtnf.asp It may be true that they hate freedom in some

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Re: CDR: Re: overcoming ecash deployment problems (Re: all about transferable off-line ecash)

2002-04-11 Thread F. Marc de Piolenc
A. Melon wrote: Tim May [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 06:59 AM, Mike Rosing wrote: But the reason we have AC today is because Tesla requested no royalties on his motor/generator. Something for Brands to think about. No, we have AC because AC works

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Re: Coins vs. bills

2002-04-11 Thread Peter Gutmann
Ken Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: For some reason the mention of a Susan B Anthony dollar stuck in my brain as an Alice B Sheldon dollar. Susan Anthony is a person who I've never heard of. I'm almost tempted not to find out who she is or was to preserve a nugget of delicious cognitive

Re: Coins vs. bills

2002-04-11 Thread Tim May
On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 10:05 PM, Peter Gutmann wrote: Ken Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: For some reason the mention of a Susan B Anthony dollar stuck in my brain as an Alice B Sheldon dollar. Susan Anthony is a person who I've never heard of. I'm almost tempted not to find

Re: How do we trust bits?

2002-04-11 Thread Pat Farrell
At 01:43 AM 4/11/2002 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Pat Farrell wrote: Banks exchange bits thru the ACH networks based on a belief that their exchange is valid. No, they exchange bits based on a very expensive and complicated protocol that has a variety of safe guards built

Re: How do we trust bits?

2002-04-11 Thread Morlock Elloi
Changing trust to believe advances the discussion not one whit. Alice trusts Bob to sign keys accurately; Alice believes that Bob signs keys accurately. The change doesn't add anything. Belief is a physiological phenomenon that makes one accept otherwise silly concepts in order to be unison

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2002-04-11 Thread Khoder bin Hakkin
[Ed: will these building-owners sue Steve Mann when he wears his goggles which eliminate advertising? ] http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGAJW671XZC.html NEW YORK (AP) - The owners of several Times Square buildings have filed a lawsuit against the makers of the upcoming Spider-Man movie for

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Game money

2002-04-11 Thread georgemw
On 12 Apr 2002 at 0:38, Adam Back wrote: I was suggesting that the ecash mint operator exchange ecash directly for Everquest currency (virtual platinum pieces). The Everquest VR is a place in cyberspace, and there are people who make their living by trading and selling virtual artifacts

Thatcher suggests Britain join NAFTA

2002-04-11 Thread Steve Schear
Vanguard of the Revolution http://www.theVanguard.org LADY THATCHER'S VALEDICTORY by Rod D. Martin, 10 April 2002 At the end of March, just before announcing she would never again speak in public, Margaret Thatcher capped off her remarkable career with the Times serialization of her new book

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Re: Detectable cash notes a fantasy

2002-04-11 Thread Faustine
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Tim wrote: Faustine wrote: If, when I came here, I had made the deliberate choice to make an effort at getting along by emphasizing our similarities instead of differences, I dare say the motivation to dissect-and-destroy every last comment I

Re: all about transferable off-line ecash (Re: Brands off-line tech)

2002-04-11 Thread Anonymous
[By forwarding this mail to the DBS list, Robert Hettinga agrees that he is an arrogant, obnoxious, power-hungry asshole with no moral integrity whatsoever.] Adam Back wrote: On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 06:17:06PM +0200, Anonymous wrote: And second, because the deposit is unlinkable to the

Re: How do we trust bits?

2002-04-11 Thread Pat Farrell
At 07:29 PM 4/10/2002 -0700, Tim May wrote: How do we trust bits to represent money? I argue that the question is, as stated, not well-grounded at this time. I agree. It is interesting to be back on cypherpunks after a five or more year vacation, only to find most of the same discussions we

Re: How do we trust bits?

2002-04-11 Thread Jim Choate
On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Pat Farrell wrote: Alice trusts money because she can get ice cream cones. Incorrect, she trusts money because she knows the vendor trusts the money. Why? Because they are members in a large (reasonably) stable environment with (relatively) low threat percentages. If it's

P.Trei's credibility a fantasy

2002-04-11 Thread matthew X
Further, placing the notes in a simple aluminum foil pouch, or a wallet with equivalent lining, would cut any detectable signals by maybe 30-50 dB. Most people don't, and won't do this. You may not worry about the sheeple, but I do. Where does this corporado PIG FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT get

Tim's occasional .signature

2002-04-11 Thread Bill Stewart
At 06:53 PM 04/10/2002 -0700, and a number of other times, Tim May wrote: --Tim May Dogs can't conceive of a group of cats without an alpha cat. --David Honig, on the Cypherpunks list, 2001-11 I've got three cats, and one of them very definitely is the alpha cat. On the other hand, there's a

Re: Coins vs. bills

2002-04-11 Thread Ken Brown
For some reason the mention of a Susan B Anthony dollar stuck in my brain as an Alice B Sheldon dollar. Susan Anthony is a person who I've never heard of. I'm almost tempted not to find out who she is or was to preserve a nugget of delicious cognitive dissonance. A world in which governments put

PKI Labs (Re: all about transferable off-line ecash)

2002-04-11 Thread Adam Back
On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 06:41:52PM -0700, Mike Rosing wrote: On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Adam Back wrote: btw I did a google search for PKILAB and Brands to see if I could find anything along the lines you mention and look what it said: Mar 2001 Welcome Stefan Brands to PKILabs Advisory Board

Re: PKI Labs (Re: all about transferable off-line ecash)

2002-04-11 Thread John Young
The Dartmouth site is related to a broader federal PKI Technical Working Group which is developing PKI standards and protocols. See: http://csrc.nist.gov/pki/twg/welcome.html Below are two recent messages from the PKI-TWG mail list on some of the work being done. Subscribe to the PKI-TWG

RE: Detectable cash notes a fantasy

2002-04-11 Thread Trei, Peter
Eugen Leitl[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Tim May wrote: How come? Because I am assuming the transponders are in the same position on each bill. If you want to posit some spatial diversity model, that helps, but not but a huge amount. This sounds too science

RE: Coins vs. bills

2002-04-11 Thread Trei, Peter
Ken Brown[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Anyway, no-one has yet come up with a convincing reason for me to want to carry any kind of electronic wallet for small transactions. Anything under, say, 50 dollars American, is more easily done in physical cash money. If nothing else the irritation

Among the Bourgeoisophobes

2002-04-11 Thread F. Marc de Piolenc
Among the Bourgeoisophobes Why the Europeans and Arabs, each in their own way, hate America and Israel. http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/102gwtnf.asp -- Remember September 11, 2001 but don't forget July 4, 1776 They that can give up essential liberty to

RE: Detectable cash notes a fantasy

2002-04-11 Thread Trei, Peter
Eugen Leitl[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: Remember that original issue was reading the embedded RFID in a stack of bills from across the room with a portable reader. A possibly shielded stack of bills. The FAQ you cited says 60 RFID tags/s reader speed under optimal consitions (I

RE: Detectable cash notes a fantasy

2002-04-11 Thread thaning
Go and read 'Repent Harlequin! Cried the Tick-Tock Man' by PK Dick for a particularly slackless society with this technology. Might be easier to find if you substitute Harlan Ellison as the author, though. - Sten

Re: overcoming ecash deployment problems (Re: all about transferable off-line ecash)

2002-04-11 Thread Steve Schear
At 01:14 AM 4/12/2002 +1000, Julian Assange wrote: Patent's aren't the problem - price of royalty is. If Brands is willing No Patents are a problem. The total future cost, including the costs of all license negotiations and compliance burdens are unpredictable and consequently do not make a

Re: Among the Bourgeoisophobes

2002-04-11 Thread Gil Hamilton
F. Marc de Piolenc forwards: Among the Bourgeoisophobes Why the Europeans and Arabs, each in their own way, hate America and Israel. http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/102gwtnf.asp While it drops off into a bit of jingoism near the end, the first three quarters

Re: overcoming ecash deployment problems (Re: all about transferable off-line ecash)

2002-04-11 Thread Tim May
[Digital Bearer Settlement [EMAIL PROTECTED] address removed.] On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 06:37 AM, Adam Back wrote: New thread about deployment barriers to explore the topic of whether there are now more internet services and technologies that would allow us to get closer to

Re: overcoming ecash deployment problems (Re: all about transferable off-line ecash)

2002-04-11 Thread Tim May
On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 06:59 AM, Mike Rosing wrote: On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Adam Back wrote: Well I also am pretty anti-patent, especially the xor-cursor and business process kind, but at least these ecash patents are not frivolous patents (well Chaum's RSA blinding online scheme may

Re: Bill Stewart is an alpha cat?

2002-04-11 Thread Faustine
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Someone wrote: The actual meaning, less succintly phrased, is that those who define themselves by their position in a hierarchical organizational chart cannot conceive of a social structure (such as a discussion group) which is without a leader.

Re: Detectable cash notes a fantasy

2002-04-11 Thread Tim May
On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 07:07 AM, Trei, Peter wrote: [1. Agreed, this thread has lost steam. 2. It always amazes me how often people on this list will handwave and speculate on subjects which a few minutes with Google will settle. Too often, we're like the medieval academics who

Bill Stewart is an alpha cat?

2002-04-11 Thread Khoder bin Hakkin
Quoth Bill: At 06:53 PM 04/10/2002 -0700, and a number of other times, Tim May wrote: --Tim May Dogs can't conceive of a group of cats without an alpha cat. --David Honig, on the Cypherpunks list, 2001-11 I've got three cats, and one of them very definitely is the alpha cat. You mean

overcoming ecash deployment problems (Re: all about transferable off-line ecash)

2002-04-11 Thread Adam Back
New thread about deployment barriers to explore the topic of whether there are now more internet services and technologies that would allow us to get closer to deployment of ecash. (It would be about time you'd think). On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 08:30:07AM +0200, Anonymous wrote: [...] Of course

Re: overcoming ecash deployment problems (Re: all about transferable off-line ecash)

2002-04-11 Thread Mike Rosing
On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Adam Back wrote: Well I also am pretty anti-patent, especially the xor-cursor and business process kind, but at least these ecash patents are not frivolous patents (well Chaum's RSA blinding online scheme may look pretty simple once you've seen it but Brands stuff is

Re: overcoming ecash deployment problems (Re: all about transferable off-line ecash)

2002-04-11 Thread Adam Shostack
On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 02:37:50PM +0100, Adam Back wrote: | - deployment / chicken and egg problem (merchants want lots of users | before they're interested users want wide merchant acceptance before | their interested) I think its worse than that. The normal technology adoption curve is that

Re: overcoming ecash deployment problems (Re: all about transferableoff-line ecash)

2002-04-11 Thread Julian Assange
Patent's aren't the problem - price of royalty is. If Brands is willing No Patents are a problem. The total future cost, including the costs of all license negotiations and compliance burdens are unpredictable and consequently do not make a wise investment. Futher, companies view patent

Re: Bill Stewart is an alpha cat?

2002-04-11 Thread Morlock Elloi
(If there is a cp movement, it is the raising of the middle finger above the closed fist, in the direction of oppression.) http://www.lemuria.org/DeArt/Sep/001.gif = end (of original message) Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows: Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with

Re: Detectable cash notes a fantasy

2002-04-11 Thread Sunder
On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Eugen Leitl wrote: I could imagine airlines screening for this, though, as a big RFID splash would invite you to become a target for random searches, and a prospective target for confiscation. Better yet, rather than nuke your rfids, try to extract them out of the

Re: Among the Bourgeoisophobes

2002-04-11 Thread John Young
Frederick Kagan, a historian at the US Military Academy, argued in a talk recently that the US needs to: More than double its defense expenditures; Ignore the Europeans and other allies due to their military ineffectuality and insufficient defense budgets; Prepare for long-term US military

Re: Bill Stewart is an alpha cat?

2002-04-11 Thread Morlock Elloi
The fact that it hasn't worked out as well as it might is a testament to just how strong our ape legacy is: the weak and stupid are at the mercy of the strong and cunning and always will be. Here there and everywhere, from Dumbiosity on the rise. Weak and stupid is a universal losing

RE: Among the Bourgeoisophobes

2002-04-11 Thread Trei, Peter
Can you give a cite? Peter Trei -- From: John Young[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 5:10 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Among the Bourgeoisophobes Frederick Kagan, a historian at the US Military Academy, argued in a talk

Re: overcoming ecash deployment problems (Re: all about transferable off-line ecash)

2002-04-11 Thread A. Melon
Tim May [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 06:59 AM, Mike Rosing wrote: But the reason we have AC today is because Tesla requested no royalties on his motor/generator. Something for Brands to think about. No, we have AC because AC works better than DC in home

Re: How do we trust bits?

2002-04-11 Thread Mike Rosing
On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Nomen Nescio wrote: Changing trust to believe advances the discussion not one whit. Alice trusts Bob to sign keys accurately; Alice believes that Bob signs keys accurately. The change doesn't add anything. In fact if anything it's a step backwards. Trust is a

RE: Among the Bourgeoisophobes

2002-04-11 Thread John Young
Frederick Kagan spoke at the Princeton Club, New York City, Tuesday evening, April 9, 2002. http://www.princetonclub.com American Heritage Lecture Series -- Special Guest Frederick W. Kagan After September 11: Terrorism and the Enduring Bases of American Defense Strategy Details: Join us

Re: Coins vs. bills

2002-04-11 Thread Ken Brown
Trei, Peter wrote: [...snip...] what you said is all true but the benefit (as you pointed out) is primarily to the retailer, not the shopper. All this doesn't apply to higher-value transactions of course. Ken, when was the last time you paid for a call from a UK public phone with coins?

Re: Among the Bourgeoisophobes

2002-04-11 Thread keyser-soze
[We can propable expect a new Operation Northwoods from Kagan, et al soon] Frederick Kagan, a historian at the US Military Academy, argued in a talk recently that the US needs to: More than double its defense expenditures; Ignore the Europeans and other allies due to their military

R.A. as A.J. (was Re: all about transferable off-line ecash (Re: Brands off-line tech))

2002-04-11 Thread R. A. Hettinga
At 8:30 AM +0200 on 4/11/02, Anonymous exfumed out of Vienna again: [By forwarding this mail to the DBS list, Done... Robert Hettinga agrees that he is an arrogant, Check... obnoxious, Check... power-hungry Check... asshole Walter-Brennan-as-Stinky-Pete Now yew wait jes' a

Re: Detectable cash notes a fantasy

2002-04-11 Thread Sampo Syreeni
On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Tim May wrote: How come? True, if a bill is idealized as being planar, you'll have trouble on the plane. Spatial diversity will take care of that. Otherwise, a common note has plenty of surface to do your thing on. Especially at higher frequencies, like UHF and beyond.

Re: How do we trust bits?

2002-04-11 Thread Pat Farrell
At 01:43 AM 4/11/2002 -0500, Jim Choate wrote: On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Pat Farrell wrote: Banks exchange bits thru the ACH networks based on a belief that their exchange is valid. No, they exchange bits based on a very expensive and complicated protocol that has a variety of safe guards built

The right to control what you see: digitally removed adverts = lawsuit

2002-04-11 Thread Khoder bin Hakkin
[Ed: will these building-owners sue Steve Mann when he wears his goggles which eliminate advertising? ] http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGAJW671XZC.html NEW YORK (AP) - The owners of several Times Square buildings have filed a lawsuit against the makers of the upcoming Spider-Man movie for

Re: overcoming ecash deployment problems (Re: all about transferable off-line ecash)

2002-04-11 Thread georgemw
On 11 Apr 2002 at 12:48, A. Melon wrote: Tim May [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 06:59 AM, Mike Rosing wrote: But the reason we have AC today is because Tesla requested no royalties on his motor/generator. Something for Brands to think about. No, we

Re: How do we trust bits?

2002-04-11 Thread Morlock Elloi
Changing trust to believe advances the discussion not one whit. Alice trusts Bob to sign keys accurately; Alice believes that Bob signs keys accurately. The change doesn't add anything. Belief is a physiological phenomenon that makes one accept otherwise silly concepts in order to be unison

Thatcher suggests Britain join NAFTA

2002-04-11 Thread Steve Schear
Vanguard of the Revolution http://www.theVanguard.org LADY THATCHER'S VALEDICTORY by Rod D. Martin, 10 April 2002 At the end of March, just before announcing she would never again speak in public, Margaret Thatcher capped off her remarkable career with the Times serialization of her new book

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