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Tim wrote:
Faustine wrote:
If, when I came here, I had made the deliberate choice to make an
effort at getting along by emphasizing our similarities instead of
differences, I dare say the motivation to dissect-and-destroy every last
comment I
[By forwarding this mail to the DBS list, Robert Hettinga agrees that
he is an arrogant, obnoxious, power-hungry asshole with no moral
integrity whatsoever.]
Adam Back wrote:
On Tue, Apr 09, 2002 at 06:17:06PM +0200, Anonymous wrote:
And second, because the deposit is unlinkable to the
At 07:29 PM 4/10/2002 -0700, Tim May wrote:
How do we trust bits to represent money?
I argue that the question is, as stated, not well-grounded at this time.
I agree.
It is interesting to be back on cypherpunks after a five or more year vacation,
only to find most of the same discussions we
On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Pat Farrell wrote:
Alice trusts money because she can get ice cream cones.
Incorrect, she trusts money because she knows the vendor trusts the money.
Why? Because they are members in a large (reasonably) stable environment
with (relatively) low threat percentages. If it's
Further, placing the notes in a simple aluminum foil pouch, or a
wallet with equivalent lining, would cut any detectable signals by maybe
30-50 dB. Most people don't, and won't do this. You may not worry about
the sheeple, but I do.
Where does this corporado PIG FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT get
At 06:53 PM 04/10/2002 -0700, and a number of other times, Tim May wrote:
--Tim May
Dogs can't conceive of a group of cats without an alpha cat. --David
Honig, on the Cypherpunks list, 2001-11
I've got three cats, and one of them very definitely is the alpha cat.
On the other hand, there's a
For some reason the mention of a Susan B Anthony dollar stuck in my
brain as an Alice B Sheldon dollar. Susan Anthony is a person who I've
never heard of. I'm almost tempted not to find out who she is or was to
preserve a nugget of delicious cognitive dissonance. A world in which
governments put
On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 06:41:52PM -0700, Mike Rosing wrote:
On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Adam Back wrote:
btw I did a google search for PKILAB and Brands to see if I could find
anything along the lines you mention and look what it said:
Mar 2001 Welcome Stefan Brands to PKILabs Advisory Board
The Dartmouth site is related to a broader federal PKI Technical
Working Group which is developing PKI standards and protocols.
See:
http://csrc.nist.gov/pki/twg/welcome.html
Below are two recent messages from the PKI-TWG mail list
on some of the work being done.
Subscribe to the PKI-TWG
Eugen Leitl[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Tim May wrote:
How come? Because I am assuming the transponders are in the same
position on each bill. If you want to posit some spatial diversity
model, that helps, but not but a huge amount. This sounds too science
Ken Brown[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Anyway, no-one has yet come up with a convincing reason for me to want
to carry any kind of electronic wallet for small transactions. Anything
under, say, 50 dollars American, is more easily done in physical cash
money. If nothing else the irritation
Among the Bourgeoisophobes
Why the Europeans and Arabs, each in their own way, hate America and
Israel.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/102gwtnf.asp
--
Remember September 11, 2001 but don't forget July 4, 1776
They that can give up essential liberty to
Eugen Leitl[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
Remember that original issue was reading the embedded RFID in a stack of
bills from across the room with a portable reader. A possibly shielded
stack of bills.
The FAQ you cited says 60 RFID tags/s reader speed under optimal
consitions (I
Go and read 'Repent Harlequin! Cried the Tick-Tock Man' by PK Dick for a
particularly slackless society with this technology.
Might be easier to find if you substitute Harlan Ellison as the author, though.
- Sten
At 01:14 AM 4/12/2002 +1000, Julian Assange wrote:
Patent's aren't the problem - price of royalty is. If Brands is willing
No Patents are a problem. The total future cost, including the
costs of all license negotiations and compliance burdens are
unpredictable and consequently do not make a
F. Marc de Piolenc forwards:
Among the Bourgeoisophobes
Why the Europeans and Arabs, each in their own way, hate America and
Israel.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/102gwtnf.asp
While it drops off into a bit of jingoism near the end, the first three
quarters
[Digital Bearer Settlement [EMAIL PROTECTED] address removed.]
On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 06:37 AM, Adam Back wrote:
New thread about deployment barriers to explore the topic of whether
there are now more internet services and technologies that would allow
us to get closer to
On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 06:59 AM, Mike Rosing wrote:
On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Adam Back wrote:
Well I also am pretty anti-patent, especially the xor-cursor and
business process kind, but at least these ecash patents are not
frivolous patents (well Chaum's RSA blinding online scheme may
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Someone wrote:
The actual meaning, less succintly phrased, is that those who define
themselves by their position in a hierarchical organizational chart cannot
conceive of a social structure (such as a discussion group) which is without a
leader.
On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 07:07 AM, Trei, Peter wrote:
[1. Agreed, this thread has lost steam.
2. It always amazes me how often people on this list will handwave and
speculate on subjects which a few minutes with Google will settle. Too
often, we're like the medieval academics who
Quoth Bill:
At 06:53 PM 04/10/2002 -0700, and a number of other times, Tim May
wrote:
--Tim May
Dogs can't conceive of a group of cats without an alpha cat.
--David
Honig, on the Cypherpunks list, 2001-11
I've got three cats, and one of them very definitely is the alpha cat.
You mean
New thread about deployment barriers to explore the topic of whether
there are now more internet services and technologies that would allow
us to get closer to deployment of ecash. (It would be about time
you'd think).
On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 08:30:07AM +0200, Anonymous wrote:
[...]
Of course
On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Adam Back wrote:
Well I also am pretty anti-patent, especially the xor-cursor and
business process kind, but at least these ecash patents are not
frivolous patents (well Chaum's RSA blinding online scheme may look
pretty simple once you've seen it but Brands stuff is
On Thu, Apr 11, 2002 at 02:37:50PM +0100, Adam Back wrote:
| - deployment / chicken and egg problem (merchants want lots of users
| before they're interested users want wide merchant acceptance before
| their interested)
I think its worse than that. The normal technology adoption curve is
that
Patent's aren't the problem - price of royalty is. If Brands is willing
No Patents are a problem. The total future cost, including the
costs of all license negotiations and compliance burdens are
unpredictable and consequently do not make a wise investment.
Futher, companies view patent
(If there is a cp movement, it is the raising of the middle finger
above the closed fist, in the direction of oppression.)
http://www.lemuria.org/DeArt/Sep/001.gif
=
end
(of original message)
Y-a*h*o-o (yes, they scan for this) spam follows:
Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with
On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Eugen Leitl wrote:
I could imagine airlines screening for this, though, as a big RFID splash
would invite you to become a target for random searches, and a
prospective target for confiscation.
Better yet, rather than nuke your rfids, try to extract them out of the
Frederick Kagan, a historian at the US Military Academy,
argued in a talk recently that the US needs to:
More than double its defense expenditures;
Ignore the Europeans and other allies due to their military
ineffectuality and insufficient defense budgets;
Prepare for long-term US military
The fact that it hasn't worked out as well as it might is a testament to
just how strong our ape legacy is: the weak and stupid are at the mercy of
the
strong and cunning and always will be. Here there and everywhere, from
Dumbiosity on the rise.
Weak and stupid is a universal losing
Can you give a cite?
Peter Trei
--
From: John Young[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 5:10 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Among the Bourgeoisophobes
Frederick Kagan, a historian at the US Military Academy,
argued in a talk
Tim May [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 06:59 AM, Mike Rosing wrote:
But the reason we have AC today is because Tesla requested no
royalties on his motor/generator. Something for Brands to think
about.
No, we have AC because AC works better than DC in home
On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, Nomen Nescio wrote:
Changing trust to believe advances the discussion not one whit.
Alice trusts Bob to sign keys accurately; Alice believes that Bob signs
keys accurately. The change doesn't add anything.
In fact if anything it's a step backwards. Trust is a
Frederick Kagan spoke at the Princeton Club, New York City,
Tuesday evening, April 9, 2002.
http://www.princetonclub.com
American Heritage Lecture Series -- Special Guest
Frederick W. Kagan
After September 11: Terrorism and the Enduring Bases of
American Defense Strategy
Details:
Join us
Trei, Peter wrote:
[...snip...]
what you said is all true but the benefit (as you pointed out) is
primarily to the retailer, not the shopper. All this doesn't apply to
higher-value transactions of course.
Ken, when was the last time you paid for a call from a UK
public phone with coins?
[We can propable expect a new Operation Northwoods from Kagan, et al soon]
Frederick Kagan, a historian at the US Military Academy,
argued in a talk recently that the US needs to:
More than double its defense expenditures;
Ignore the Europeans and other allies due to their military
At 8:30 AM +0200 on 4/11/02, Anonymous exfumed out of Vienna again:
[By forwarding this mail to the DBS list,
Done...
Robert Hettinga agrees that
he is an arrogant,
Check...
obnoxious,
Check...
power-hungry
Check...
asshole
Walter-Brennan-as-Stinky-Pete Now yew wait jes' a
On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Tim May wrote:
How come? True, if a bill is idealized as being planar, you'll have
trouble on the plane. Spatial diversity will take care of that.
Otherwise, a common note has plenty of surface to do your thing on.
Especially at higher frequencies, like UHF and beyond.
At 01:43 AM 4/11/2002 -0500, Jim Choate wrote:
On Wed, 10 Apr 2002, Pat Farrell wrote:
Banks exchange bits thru the ACH networks based on
a belief that their exchange is valid.
No, they exchange bits based on a very expensive and complicated protocol
that has a variety of safe guards built
[Ed: will these building-owners sue Steve Mann when he wears his goggles
which eliminate
advertising? ]
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGAJW671XZC.html
NEW YORK (AP) - The owners of several Times Square buildings have filed
a lawsuit against the makers of the upcoming Spider-Man movie for
On 11 Apr 2002 at 12:48, A. Melon wrote:
Tim May [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 06:59 AM, Mike Rosing wrote:
But the reason we have AC today is because Tesla requested no
royalties on his motor/generator. Something for Brands to think
about.
No, we
Changing trust to believe advances the discussion not one whit.
Alice trusts Bob to sign keys accurately; Alice believes that Bob signs
keys accurately. The change doesn't add anything.
Belief is a physiological phenomenon that makes one accept otherwise silly
concepts in order to be unison
Vanguard of the Revolution
http://www.theVanguard.org
LADY THATCHER'S VALEDICTORY
by
Rod D. Martin, 10 April 2002
At the end of March, just before announcing she would never again speak in
public, Margaret Thatcher capped off her remarkable career with the Times
serialization of her new book
On 12 Apr 2002 at 0:38, Adam Back wrote:
I was suggesting that the ecash mint operator exchange ecash directly
for Everquest currency (virtual platinum pieces). The Everquest VR
is a place in cyberspace, and there are people who make their living
by trading and selling virtual artifacts
At 10:57 AM 4/11/2002 -0400, Adam Shostack wrote:
Thus, ecash deployment is a 3 party problem, where most new
technologies that succeed are not.
Actually, it is worse than this.
Credit cards are a four party transaction. Mostly for historical reasons, but
still, the customer's card is
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