Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
On 29 April 2013 19:16, Matt Shaver m...@mattshaver.com wrote: I feel the need to defend the Pi, Cubie, Olimex, et al boards, since it appears that no one else will :) Something else that is already out there (and a few of us were given samples of) is: http://www.roboard.com/ncbox-189.html Which is x86 but also has a number of on-board PWM channels. In some ways I think they missed a trick with the NCbox, and might have been better going for an all-in-one based on http://www.roboard.com/RB-110.htm -- atp If you can't fix it, you don't own it. http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto -- Introducing AppDynamics Lite, a free troubleshooting tool for Java/.NET Get 100% visibility into your production application - at no cost. Code-level diagnostics for performance bottlenecks with 2% overhead Download for free and get started troubleshooting in minutes. http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_ap1 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
--- On Sun, 4/28/13, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote: I dont think the case for servo systems is very good without some additional hardware. The BBB has just three possible hardware encoder counters. Software encoder counters could be done by the PRU but they would not be comparable to hardware encoder counters in performance (hardware can do MHz count rates and more importantly multi MHZ oversampling for digital filtering). Also you lose one hardware encoder if you use the on card flash memory and one more if you use video. What about the network port? Don't use the video and use network for control. Could you multiplex encoder data to make two work like four, albeit at a slower rate? -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
On Mon, 29 Apr 2013, Gregg Eshelman wrote: Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 01:51:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Gregg Eshelman g_ala...@yahoo.com Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] [utf-8] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image --- On Sun, 4/28/13, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote: I dont think the case for servo systems is very good without some additional hardware. The BBB has just three possible hardware encoder counters. Software encoder counters could be done by the PRU but they would not be comparable to hardware encoder counters in performance (hardware can do MHz count rates and more importantly multi MHZ oversampling for digital filtering). Also you lose one hardware encoder if you use the on card flash memory and one more if you use video. What about the network port? Don't use the video and use network for control. Could you multiplex encoder data to make two work like four, albeit at a slower rate? You could multiplex encoder data using a PRU software encoder (If you ran out of pins) but this would 1/2 the software data capture rate. I dont think its possible to mux the hardware encoders. Encoder capture might also be possible with DMA, I havent looked into PRU DMA capabilities yet -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users Peter Wallace Mesa Electronics (\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your ()_() signature to help him gain world domination. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 12:55:17 -0500 Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi? I feel the need to defend the Pi, Cubie, Olimex, et al boards, since it appears that no one else will :) Several areas of concern are worthy of our attention, which argue for a more circumspect outlook regarding the explosion of new ARM based systems that can potentially host linuxcnc: 1. In the case of the Pi, numbers matter I think. AFAIK, the Beagle Bone has two versions which have been produced; The BBW which was produced in a quantity of 60,000 (correct me if I'm wrong please), and the BBB which is being produced in a batch of 100,000 initially. Contrast this with the Pi, which has a total production of 1,000,000 (most are Model B, and I don't know how many of Model A). Also, AFAIK, none of the Allwinner A10/A20 boards has been produced in anything like these quantities AS A DEVELOPMENT BOARD. The Allwinner chips are however INCREDIBLY POPULAR in tablets and other applications. An Allwinner board like the Cubie, or even the Cubie itself, could become available in a week, month, or year, that creates as big a stir as the release of the BBB did a few days ago. Then, there's the iMX233 based stuff (far example https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/iMX233/). This processor is very cheap, and available. It's not as super powerful as the others, but could play a useful role, perhaps as a network connected, smart peripheral controller. My point is: It's way too early in this situation to declare a winner. In fact, the linuxcnc future may involve solutions which employ more than one of these technologies. 2. The PRU is a TI specific thing. My best guess is that BBB solutions are going to lean on the PRU for all it's worth (which is a good thing). However, the PRU is not going to scale up as far as FPGA solutions will. For a real world example, the Smithy 1240 (early 2 phase motor models), used a stepper drive with 400kHz maximum step pulse frequency and normal operation of the machine at rapid speed used the whole 400kHz. The biggest configuration of this machine had (3) 400kHz axes, and one (rotary) at 200-250kHz. Additionally, there is a 720 line spindle encoder that has to work at up to 6000RPM (the A and B channels will max out at 72kHz). This example is far below the desirable maximum limits we should impose on potential linuxcnc users. 3. Cost: Pi=$25-$35, BBB=$45. Since the difference between production cost and retail sales price is usually a factor of 2-3x, this means a BBB solution will sell for at least $20, and as much as $60 more than a Pi based one, all other things being equal. Since both boards require at least one additional circuit board for isolation and level translation purposes, the $10-$20 difference in price between the two boards would just about cover the cost of adding an FPGA to the Pi's auxiliary PCB. A Pi+FPGA BBB+PRU assuming software support for both in linuxcnc. 4. If linuxcnc3 supports distributed processing, and network interconnection/cooperation, then these cheap little boards could be spread out in a cluster, which is much less practical with even small PCs. The small size, low cost, and low power requirements make this very attractive AND allows each different type of little board to be applied where it makes the most engineering and financial sense. This also argues for not narrowing our focus strictly to the BBB. 5. Most of this debate is moot, because the REAL FUTURE is (IMHO) going to be in these combo ARM+FPGA chips like the Xilinx Zynq and Altera Cyclone SoC devices. This type of device will likely render the existing boards we're looking at now obsolete within a few years. Any attempt to predict the future past about 5 years is probably futile. Having said all this, I did get a BBB in the mail yesterday, and I will now play with it... :) Thanks, Matt -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
Gentlemen, Am 29.04.2013 um 20:16 schrieb Matt Shaver m...@mattshaver.com: On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 12:55:17 -0500 Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi? I feel the need to defend the Pi, Cubie, Olimex, et al boards, since it appears that no one else will :) let me say I wholeheartedly enjoy listening to your problems all of which were completely theoretical 5 months ago so they look like good to have to me;) -m -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
--- On Mon, 4/29/13, Peter C. Wallace p...@mesanet.com wrote: From: Gregg Eshelman g_ala...@yahoo.com What about the network port? Don't use the video and use network for control. Could you multiplex encoder data to make two work like four, albeit at a slower rate? You could multiplex encoder data using a PRU software encoder (If you ran out of pins) but this would 1/2 the software data capture rate. I dont think its possible to mux the hardware encoders. Encoder capture might also be possible with DMA, I havent looked into PRU DMA capabilities yet I was thinking along the lines of what Sony did with a single DAC in the first consumer model CD player. They ran it at least 2x as fast as needed to decode one channel then interleaved the bitstreams. No problem there, but they went even cheaper and didn't use a buffer and hold to re-sync the left and right channels, causing one to have a small lag. I guess they figured nobody would notice, probably didn't, but the golden ear types would claim they did once they knew the hardware details. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
On 4/29/2013 1:16 PM, Matt Shaver wrote: On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 12:55:17 -0500 Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi? I feel the need to defend the Pi, Cubie, Olimex, et al boards, since it appears that no one else will :) Excellent points...I have a few comments of my own in-line: Several areas of concern are worthy of our attention, which argue for a more circumspect outlook regarding the explosion of new ARM based systems that can potentially host linuxcnc: 1. In the case of the Pi, numbers matter I think. I believe you're right about the numbers, and the Pi takes this hands down. That doesn't change the fact that any of these boards could disappear overnight, or be replaced by the next new thing at a moments notice. 2. The PRU is a TI specific thing. Yep...the PRU is a TI specific thing. That said, it's successful enough to be in it's second iteration across a family of several different ARM based SoCs. These parts are also aimed at the industrial market rather than the more fickle consumer market, and I suspect will have a longer life than the SoC at the heart of the Pi, or the Allwinner chip-of-the-day. 3. Cost: Pi=$25-$35, BBB=$45. I'm not personally concerned drastically about the cost. I liked the 'Bone more than the Pi for CNC before the price got cut in half. 4. If linuxcnc3 supports distributed processing, and network interconnection/cooperation, then these cheap little boards could be spread out in a cluster, which is much less practical with even small PCs. The small size, low cost, and low power requirements make this very attractive AND allows each different type of little board to be applied where it makes the most engineering and financial sense. This also argues for not narrowing our focus strictly to the BBB. I totally agree here...but the gory details need to be worked out first (see more below for #5). 5. Most of this debate is moot, because the REAL FUTURE is (IMHO) going to be in these combo ARM+FPGA chips like the Xilinx Zynq and Altera Cyclone SoC devices. This type of device will likely render the existing boards we're looking at now obsolete within a few years. Any attempt to predict the future past about 5 years is probably futile. I agree with this in spirit...IMHO the ARM + FPGA combination is going to simplify the current dizzying array of dedicated function ARM SoC parts into a more comprehensive ecosystem. But that's the future, not today. Today, what *I* am trying to get from LinuxCNC is a functional replacement for the typical Arduino based 3D printer controller. So what I need is: * LinuxCNC ported to something that runs on a board 'similar' to an Arduino (ie: small, low-power, and fairly inexpensive). In today's world that pretty much means an ARM board. Or maybe some Atom based tablet reference platform, but the ARM boards are easier to come by. * Hardware/software support for 5+ channels of step/dir generation at rates that exceed the current Arduino limits (I'm targeting at least 100 KHz step rate, ideally higher). * ADC support for 3+ thermistors * PWM generation for controlling the heaters (this is low-bandwidth, and can be done by just about anything). So...the Pi falls flat on ADC support and step/dir generation (have you checked the worst-case latency figures for ARM even with a Xenomai enhanced kernel? 50+ uS). The TI AM339x on the 'Bone has enhanced hardware timer support compared to the Pi, but the PRU is really what makes this SoC a great intermediate step between a plain vanilla ARM core and a full-on FPGA solution. I still think you need an FPGA if you're running with encoders and servos (except the 'Bone could _maybe_ drive a 3-axis servo system if you can use the hardware encoders built-in to the SoC, but I'd still prefer an FPGA). Given the Xilinx Zynq is apparently made of solid gold (based on their board and chip pricing), and the Altera SoC parts aren't quite real yet, the 'Bone looks like the best choice for a LinuxCNC ARM platform _TODAY_. But I wouldn't want to be too tightly coupled to *ANY* particular ARM chip/SoC solution...this environment is rapidly changing. As for the FPGA option...in addition to attending the Altera/Arrow SoCKIT seminar next month (where I'll be getting a Cyclone-V SoC evaluation board with ES silicon), I just found out I may be using the Altera FPGA + ARM SoC in an official work (ie: paid job) project. I really do see the FPGA + ARM SoC parts as the future, but there are a few steps to be traveled along the way... :) If you know of another existing board (ARM or otherwise) that can support at least five 100+ KHz step/dir channels and has 3+ ADC inputs (all without having to add external hardware), I'd *LOVE* to hear about it. I'm quite sure I am not aware of every low-cost dev/eval/hobby board available. Having said all this, I did get a BBB in the mail yesterday, and I will now play with it... :)
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
On Mon, 29 Apr 2013 21:05:41 +0200 Michael Haberler mai...@mah.priv.at wrote: Am 29.04.2013 um 20:16 schrieb Matt Shaver m...@mattshaver.com: On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 12:55:17 -0500 Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi? I feel the need to defend the Pi, Cubie, Olimex, et al boards, since it appears that no one else will :) let me say I wholeheartedly enjoy listening to your problems all of which were completely theoretical 5 months ago so they look like good to have to me;) It is a good time to be alive. Thanks, Matt -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
Michael, Thank you! This is like getting a an unexpected new toy :-) Dave Message: 3 Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2013 16:09:37 +0200 From: Michael Haberlermai...@mah.priv.at Subject: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD cardimage To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Message-ID:ee3dd32e-0227-468d-9a5b-c7d1dde36...@mah.priv.at Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii As promised, I have prepared an SD card image for the beaglebone ready-to-run. snip -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
Michael Haberler wrote: As promised, I have prepared an SD card image for the beaglebone ready-to-run. Fantastic work, many thanks! partition 2 - ext4, size 3.8GB or greater, In a number of places, ext4 has been reported to be associated with early failure of SD cards. I'm not sure whether to believe this, but I have seen so many reports, I worry about it. Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi? I have been thinking about redoing my old BeagleBoard EPP converter for one of these boards, but didn't want to start until it was decided which way to go. Jon -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
At $49 vs. $35, I would take the new BeagleBone Black any day over the Raspberry Pi. The processor is from TI (with long processor experience) instead of Broadcom. The processor also has great peripherals for motion control (not present in the Broadcom chip). The only thing the RPi has going for it is volume production, but that could fizzle very quickly if the fad passes or Broadcom drops the chip. After all, the 100K volumes of the RPi are not large for a commodity supplier like Broadcom. The fact that a turn-key LinuxCNC image is already out for the BeagleBone is the clincher. Thank you again to Michael and helpers. -- Ralph From: Jon Elson [el...@pico-systems.com] Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 10:55 AM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image Michael Haberler wrote: As promised, I have prepared an SD card image for the beaglebone ready-to-run. Fantastic work, many thanks! partition 2 - ext4, size 3.8GB or greater, In a number of places, ext4 has been reported to be associated with early failure of SD cards. I'm not sure whether to believe this, but I have seen so many reports, I worry about it. Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi? I have been thinking about redoing my old BeagleBoard EPP converter for one of these boards, but didn't want to start until it was decided which way to go. Jon -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi? I think it's a no-brainer myself. I have a Raspi, but I just don't see it competing with the bbb -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
Beaglebone -- TI chip. Intended for industrial use. Family will be available forever. The boards are open source. Raspberry Pi -- Broadcom chip. Intended for cell phone use. A new model every year. The boards are open source -- you just can't buy the chips for them. The PRU on the Beaglebone is a deal maker. Ken On 4/28/2013 1:55 PM, Jon Elson wrote: Michael Haberler wrote: As promised, I have prepared an SD card image for the beaglebone ready-to-run. Fantastic work, many thanks! partition 2 - ext4, size 3.8GB or greater, In a number of places, ext4 has been reported to be associated with early failure of SD cards. I'm not sure whether to believe this, but I have seen so many reports, I worry about it. Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi? I have been thinking about redoing my old BeagleBoard EPP converter for one of these boards, but didn't want to start until it was decided which way to go. Jon -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
Eric Keller wrote: On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi? I think it's a no-brainer myself. I have a Raspi, but I just don't see it competing with the bbb OK, this was my take on the hardware, but there was so much RPi discussion here, I thought that might be the way development was headed. I support the Beagle direction, too, and hope much of what I have learned on the original Beagle will port over to the Bone. So, if I were going to make something for the Bone, should it be like a PC parallel port, or some other kind of breakout board? I'd like to make something that allows my parport-connected devices to be used with the Bone, but maybe others would rather have a much wider I/O device, maybe a couple dozen inputs and outputs from the PRU-accessible pins. So, any thoughts would be welcome. Jon -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
On 4/28/2013 5:15 PM, Jon Elson wrote: Eric Keller wrote: On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi? I think it's a no-brainer myself. I have a Raspi, but I just don't see it competing with the bbb OK, this was my take on the hardware, but there was so much RPi discussion here, I thought that might be the way development was headed. I support the Beagle direction, too, and hope much of what I have learned on the original Beagle will port over to the Bone. So, if I were going to make something for the Bone, should it be like a PC parallel port, or some other kind of breakout board? I'd like to make something that allows my parport-connected devices to be used with the Bone, but maybe others would rather have a much wider I/O device, maybe a couple dozen inputs and outputs from the PRU-accessible pins. So, any thoughts would be welcome. Jon Jon, I think if you look at the capabilities of the Bone, it might be hard to justify adding your board. (Note that I haven't looked at the detailed specs.) The Bone has multiple encoders support. How does the rate supported compare with the rate of your boards? The Bone can drive multiple steppers at a high rate. Compare with your boards. The Bone has multiple pwm outputs. How do the number of outputs, resolution, and rate compare to your boards? I think that those are key questions you will need to be able to answer. Regards, Ken -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
I have some RPIs and I think the BBBs will run rings around the RPIs... The PRUs seem to be the clincher. RPIs are fine for some things, but I just ordered a couple Beaglebone Blacks from Mouser. They are suppose to ship this week. The capes in the works are impressive.. The fact that Michael has a loadable version of LinuxCNC ... slam dunk. Looks like a winner to me. I want to try this out If you want to grab a BBB, Mouser says they are going to fill outstanding orders with an incoming batch of 8500 units this next week. They currently have a backorder of 8100 plus right now. After that I have no idea how long it might take to get a BBB. http://www.mouser.com/beagleboardorg/ http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/BeagleBoard-by-CircuitCo/BB-BBLK-000/?qs=%2fha2pyFadugh6wNMONnDuAbTwbrIHVw4R%2f%252bth5Q2M%2fX2Gs60muroNw%3d%3d The only reason I say this is that I waited a very long time for my first RPIs.. And no...I don't work for Mouser or have any connection to the BeagleBone... Dave On 4/28/2013 3:27 PM, Eric Keller wrote: On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Jon Elsonel...@pico-systems.com wrote: Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi? I think it's a no-brainer myself. I have a Raspi, but I just don't see it competing with the bbb -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
On Sunday 28 April 2013 17:29:54 Jon Elson did opine: Eric Keller wrote: On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi? I think it's a no-brainer myself. I have a Raspi, but I just don't see it competing with the bbb OK, this was my take on the hardware, but there was so much RPi discussion here, I thought that might be the way development was headed. I support the Beagle direction, too, and hope much of what I have learned on the original Beagle will port over to the Bone. So, if I were going to make something for the Bone, should it be like a PC parallel port, or some other kind of breakout board? I'd like to make something that allows my parport-connected devices to be used with the Bone, but maybe others would rather have a much wider I/O device, maybe a couple dozen inputs and outputs from the PRU-accessible pins. So, any thoughts would be welcome. Jon Not that I have a dog in this fight Jon, I don't expect to have to replace these atom's I bought anytime soon, but it seems to me it should allow the more or less std 26 pin IDC connector to be used so it could plug straight into our existing BOB's. Here of course I am assuming the .hal file could put the right signals on the right pins. That generally is up to us anyway. Perhaps 2 of the connectors on yours, for those with more I/O needs than one EPP port can supply. But I haven't studied it well enough to know if the PRU has enough I/O to fill up the 2nd connector. That would be pure icing on the cake IMO if it did. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml There's so much plastic in this culture that vinyl leopard skin is becoming an endangered synthetic. -- Lily Tomlin A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
I'm with Gene on this. For the short term, at least, a parallel port adapter (or 2) would allow existing BOB's to be used. But the ideal would be a dedicated cape that could provide the functionality of a Mesa or Pico Systems board. +++ Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -Kenneth Boulding, economist “How unfortunate that the Earth’s first intelligent social animal is a tribal carnivore” -E.O. Wilson, sociobiologist From: Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 4:40 PM Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image On Sunday 28 April 2013 17:29:54 Jon Elson did opine: Eric Keller wrote: On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi? I think it's a no-brainer myself. I have a Raspi, but I just don't see it competing with the bbb OK, this was my take on the hardware, but there was so much RPi discussion here, I thought that might be the way development was headed. I support the Beagle direction, too, and hope much of what I have learned on the original Beagle will port over to the Bone. So, if I were going to make something for the Bone, should it be like a PC parallel port, or some other kind of breakout board? I'd like to make something that allows my parport-connected devices to be used with the Bone, but maybe others would rather have a much wider I/O device, maybe a couple dozen inputs and outputs from the PRU-accessible pins. So, any thoughts would be welcome. Jon Not that I have a dog in this fight Jon, I don't expect to have to replace these atom's I bought anytime soon, but it seems to me it should allow the more or less std 26 pin IDC connector to be used so it could plug straight into our existing BOB's. Here of course I am assuming the .hal file could put the right signals on the right pins. That generally is up to us anyway. Perhaps 2 of the connectors on yours, for those with more I/O needs than one EPP port can supply. But I haven't studied it well enough to know if the PRU has enough I/O to fill up the 2nd connector. That would be pure icing on the cake IMO if it did. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml There's so much plastic in this culture that vinyl leopard skin is becoming an endangered synthetic. -- Lily Tomlin A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
Kenneth Lerman wrote: I think if you look at the capabilities of the Bone, it might be hard to justify adding your board. (Note that I haven't looked at the detailed specs.) The Bone has multiple encoders support. How does the rate supported compare with the rate of your boards? The Bone can drive multiple steppers at a high rate. Compare with your boards. The Bone has multiple pwm outputs. How do the number of outputs, resolution, and rate compare to your boards? My boards have high-current 5V outputs, and the latest PWM controller has switch-settable digital filters on the encoder inputs, so you can have 1, 2.5, 5 and 10 MHz count rates from the encoders. The PWM counters are clocked at 40 MHz, so you can have 800 pulse width steps at a 50 KHz PWM frequency. I think the Bone has 3.3 V I/O (the original Beagle was 1.8 V) with limited current capability, so you still need some kind of level/current translator for a lot of things. The PPMC system has 16-bit DACs for analog velocity servos, and each DIO board has 16 opto-isolated digital inputs plus place to mount 8 solid state relays for output. You can plug in multiple DIO boards as needed for more complex systems. I think our stepper controller may be superseded by what the PRU step generator will likely be able to do, but it can go to 300,000 steps/second, with only 3% timing jitter. And, it can handle encoder inputs also. Jon -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
Considering the fact that good BOB's cost pretty much what the B3 does being able to plug to current BOB's would be nice. Dave On Sun, 2013-04-28 at 14:55 -0700, Greg Bernard wrote: I'm with Gene on this. For the short term, at least, a parallel port adapter (or 2) would allow existing BOB's to be used. But the ideal would be a dedicated cape that could provide the functionality of a Mesa or Pico Systems board. +++ Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -Kenneth Boulding, economist “How unfortunate that the Earth’s first intelligent social animal is a tribal carnivore” -E.O. Wilson, sociobiologist From: Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 4:40 PM Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image On Sunday 28 April 2013 17:29:54 Jon Elson did opine: Eric Keller wrote: On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi? I think it's a no-brainer myself. I have a Raspi, but I just don't see it competing with the bbb OK, this was my take on the hardware, but there was so much RPi discussion here, I thought that might be the way development was headed. I support the Beagle direction, too, and hope much of what I have learned on the original Beagle will port over to the Bone. So, if I were going to make something for the Bone, should it be like a PC parallel port, or some other kind of breakout board? I'd like to make something that allows my parport-connected devices to be used with the Bone, but maybe others would rather have a much wider I/O device, maybe a couple dozen inputs and outputs from the PRU-accessible pins. So, any thoughts would be welcome. Jon Not that I have a dog in this fight Jon, I don't expect to have to replace these atom's I bought anytime soon, but it seems to me it should allow the more or less std 26 pin IDC connector to be used so it could plug straight into our existing BOB's. Here of course I am assuming the .hal file could put the right signals on the right pins. That generally is up to us anyway. Perhaps 2 of the connectors on yours, for those with more I/O needs than one EPP port can supply. But I haven't studied it well enough to know if the PRU has enough I/O to fill up the 2nd connector. That would be pure icing on the cake IMO if it did. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page: http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml There's so much plastic in this culture that vinyl leopard skin is becoming an endangered synthetic. -- Lily Tomlin A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 10:41:46 -0700, you wrote: Thank you! This is like getting a an unexpected new toy :-) Agreed, fantastic work by Michael. I, like many others, would love to build a small footprint controller with no PC involvement, but there are still those niggling long term bugs and restrictions within LinuxCNC itself that put me off investing any money on something 100% LinuxCNC exclusive. Steve Blackmore -- -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
I disagree. If you want a killer product for the BeagleBone Black, you need to toss the EPP port concept entirely and have the BeagleBone Plug into the Breakout board - similar to a cape. But make it larger and put 24 volt DC I/O on it, along with analog I/O, Encoder ins, and step and direction I/O. To me that would be an attractive package. I really dislike 5volt I/O for field I/O. 24 volt DC I/O is much more reliable and is the current industry standard. You could have two versions - one for step and direction and another for Analog servo, but I think I would design one board. The only reason anyone ever used the EPP LPT port was because it was cheap and already part of the PC. I have no desire to reuse old BOBs and keep it PC compatible. Dave On 4/28/2013 8:57 PM, dave wrote: Considering the fact that good BOB's cost pretty much what the B3 does being able to plug to current BOB's would be nice. Dave On Sun, 2013-04-28 at 14:55 -0700, Greg Bernard wrote: I'm with Gene on this. For the short term, at least, a parallel port adapter (or 2) would allow existing BOB's to be used. But the ideal would be a dedicated cape that could provide the functionality of a Mesa or Pico Systems board. +++ Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -Kenneth Boulding, economist “How unfortunate that the Earth’s first intelligent social animal is a tribal carnivore” -E.O. Wilson, sociobiologist From: Gene Heskettghesk...@wdtv.com To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 4:40 PM Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image On Sunday 28 April 2013 17:29:54 Jon Elson did opine: Eric Keller wrote: On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Jon Elsonel...@pico-systems.com wrote: Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi? I think it's a no-brainer myself. I have a Raspi, but I just don't see it competing with the bbb OK, this was my take on the hardware, but there was so much RPi discussion here, I thought that might be the way development was headed. I support the Beagle direction, too, and hope much of what I have learned on the original Beagle will port over to the Bone. So, if I were going to make something for the Bone, should it be like a PC parallel port, or some other kind of breakout board? I'd like to make something that allows my parport-connected devices to be used with the Bone, but maybe others would rather have a much wider I/O device, maybe a couple dozen inputs and outputs from the PRU-accessible pins. So, any thoughts would be welcome. Jon Not that I have a dog in this fight Jon, I don't expect to have to replace these atom's I bought anytime soon, but it seems to me it should allow the more or less std 26 pin IDC connector to be used so it could plug straight into our existing BOB's. Here of course I am assuming the .hal file could put the right signals on the right pins. That generally is up to us anyway. Perhaps 2 of the connectors on yours, for those with more I/O needs than one EPP port can supply. But I haven't studied it well enough to know if the PRU has enough I/O to fill up the 2nd connector. That would be pure icing on the cake IMO if it did. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page:http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml There's so much plastic in this culture that vinyl leopard skin is becoming an endangered synthetic. -- Lily Tomlin A pen in the hand of this president is far more dangerous than 200 million guns in the hands of law-abiding citizens. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
So this setup for the BeagleBone Black runs LinuxCNC and a small web server, to control it you login via Ethernet? Interesting setup, that. I do that quite often with HP laser printers and I've remotely updated and operated Portmasters hundreds of miles away. For the control peripheral board (whatever their cutsey name is for the BeagleBone series) I'd say skip rebuilding the parallel port wheel and design one to directly control as many stepper or servo driver/amplifiers as possible. To offer options on the number of axes, design one board then just don't fully populate it for versions with less than the maximum. That's what the big computer component vendors have done for a long time, especially for OEMs like Dell and HP where you'll often see empty spots for slots and connectors and chips the company ticked a delete box on the order. It'd save a bunch on design and production costs, and sufficiently motivated people could add more components and update firmware if they have a need for another axis. I put together a 1Ghz PIII last night for what'll be my first CNC homebrew machine. Got a much beefier one that will most likely go with a CandCNC Dragon-Cut kit on a large plasma table. After those, this BBB system looks like it could be cheaper, smaller and easier to use, especially for lights out unattended operation. -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] ?Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
Dave, PMDX is considering just such a product and is trying to figure out what things are needed for a real industrial control. Meanwhile, we are actually working on a cape to be used as a test platform at Wichita. It will use the parallel port header approach along with other debugging stuff. It can be used together with PMDX-112/PMDX-111 debugging accessories, or it could simply be used as parallel ports to drive an existing breakout board. The design is based around a programmable logic device to minimize the impact of incorrect assumptions of how the Beagle Bone Black is pinned out and configured. Regards, Steve Stallings www.PMDX.com -Original Message- From: Dave [mailto:e...@dc9.tzo.com] Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 9:23 PM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] ?Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image I disagree. If you want a killer product for the BeagleBone Black, you need to toss the EPP port concept entirely and have the BeagleBone Plug into the Breakout board - similar to a cape. But make it larger and put 24 volt DC I/O on it, along with analog I/O, Encoder ins, and step and direction I/O. To me that would be an attractive package. I really dislike 5volt I/O for field I/O. 24 volt DC I/O is much more reliable and is the current industry standard. You could have two versions - one for step and direction and another for Analog servo, but I think I would design one board. The only reason anyone ever used the EPP LPT port was because it was cheap and already part of the PC. I have no desire to reuse old BOBs and keep it PC compatible. Dave On 4/28/2013 8:57 PM, dave wrote: Considering the fact that good BOB's cost pretty much what the B3 does being able to plug to current BOB's would be nice. Dave On Sun, 2013-04-28 at 14:55 -0700, Greg Bernard wrote: I'm with Gene on this. For the short term, at least, a parallel port adapter (or 2) would allow existing BOB's to be used. But the ideal would be a dedicated cape that could provide the functionality of a Mesa or Pico Systems board. ++ + Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -Kenneth Boulding, economist How unfortunate that the Earth's first intelligent social animal is a tribal carnivore -E.O. Wilson, sociobiologist From: Gene Heskettghesk...@wdtv.com To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 4:40 PM Subject: Re: [Emc-users] ?Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image On Sunday 28 April 2013 17:29:54 Jon Elson did opine: Eric Keller wrote: On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Jon Elsonel...@pico-systems.com wrote: Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi? I think it's a no-brainer myself. I have a Raspi, but I just don't see it competing with the bbb OK, this was my take on the hardware, but there was so much RPi discussion here, I thought that might be the way development was headed. I support the Beagle direction, too, and hope much of what I have learned on the original Beagle will port over to the Bone. So, if I were going to make something for the Bone, should it be like a PC parallel port, or some other kind of breakout board? I'd like to make something that allows my parport-connected devices to be used with the Bone, but maybe others would rather have a much wider I/O device, maybe a couple dozen inputs and outputs from the PRU-accessible pins. So, any thoughts would be welcome. Jon Not that I have a dog in this fight Jon, I don't expect to have to replace these atom's I bought anytime soon, but it seems to me it should allow the more or less std 26 pin IDC connector to be used so it could plug straight into our existing BOB's. Here of course I am assuming the .hal file could put the right signals on the right pins. That generally is up to us anyway. Perhaps 2 of the connectors on yours, for those with more I/O needs than one EPP port can supply. But I haven't studied it well enough to know if the PRU has enough I/O to fill up the 2nd connector. That would be pure icing on the cake IMO if it did. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page:http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml There's so much plastic in this culture that vinyl leopard skin is becoming an endangered synthetic
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
Dave wrote: I disagree. If you want a killer product for the BeagleBone Black, you need to toss the EPP port concept entirely and have the BeagleBone Plug into the Breakout board - similar to a cape. Yes, I mostly agree with this. What I had in mind was to put an 8-bit plus control signals interface in the adapter so that it could connect to my existing boards, as a first step. Then, I can change the firmware on my boards to handle a much faster protocol between the ARM and my FPGAs. Another plan might be to make an FPGA board specific for the Bone, but what do I do with all the inventory I already have, here? The problem is in a mid-performance servo system, the PRU may not be fast enough to read encoders and produce PWM for the servo drives. Since there are two PRU units, this may not actually be true, but I still imagine that a completely software encoder counter would take at least several us, maybe tens of us to complete for 4 or more axes, so that would limit the maximum encoder count frequency. I have often run into the 1 MHz default count rate on my boards. So, a 100 KHz count limit would be at least a concern. Also, using the PRU to generate PWM, I'd imagine the timing resolution would be a us or so, at best. I have 25 ns timing resolution with my PWM controller. So, FPGAs still have something to offer. Just some comments to throw out there. Jon -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
On Sun, 28 Apr 2013, Dave wrote: Date: Sun, 28 Apr 2013 21:23:24 -0400 From: Dave e...@dc9.tzo.com Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] [utf-8] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image I disagree. If you want a killer product for the BeagleBone Black, you need to toss the EPP port concept entirely and have the BeagleBone Plug into the Breakout board - similar to a cape. But make it larger and put 24 volt DC I/O on it, along with analog I/O, Encoder ins, and step and direction I/O. To me that would be an attractive package. I really dislike 5volt I/O for field I/O. 24 volt DC I/O is much more reliable and is the current industry standard. You could have two versions - one for step and direction and another for Analog servo, but I think I would design one board. The only reason anyone ever used the EPP LPT port was because it was cheap and already part of the PC. I have no desire to reuse old BOBs and keep it PC compatible. Dave We are considering a Beaglebone step/dir daughtercard. It also looks like the PRU and a UARTs could run the sserial host side interface (though at a different baud rate and awkwardly due the the really stupid and ancient UARTS the Sitara uses) I dont think the case for servo systems is very good without some additional hardware. The BBB has just three possible hardware encoder counters. Software encoder counters could be done by the PRU but they would not be comparable to hardware encoder counters in performance (hardware can do MHz count rates and more importantly multi MHZ oversampling for digital filtering). Also you lose one hardware encoder if you use the on card flash memory and one more if you use video. On 4/28/2013 8:57 PM, dave wrote: Considering the fact that good BOB's cost pretty much what the B3 does being able to plug to current BOB's would be nice. Dave On Sun, 2013-04-28 at 14:55 -0700, Greg Bernard wrote: I'm with Gene on this. For the short term, at least, a parallel port adapter (or 2) would allow existing BOB's to be used. But the ideal would be a dedicated cape that could provide the functionality of a Mesa or Pico Systems board. +++ Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -Kenneth Boulding, economist ??How unfortunate that the Earth??s first intelligent social animal is a tribal carnivore?? -E.O. Wilson, sociobiologist From: Gene Heskettghesk...@wdtv.com To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 4:40 PM Subject: Re: [Emc-users] ??Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image On Sunday 28 April 2013 17:29:54 Jon Elson did opine: Eric Keller wrote: On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Jon Elsonel...@pico-systems.com wrote: Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi? I think it's a no-brainer myself. I have a Raspi, but I just don't see it competing with the bbb OK, this was my take on the hardware, but there was so much RPi discussion here, I thought that might be the way development was headed. I support the Beagle direction, too, and hope much of what I have learned on the original Beagle will port over to the Bone. So, if I were going to make something for the Bone, should it be like a PC parallel port, or some other kind of breakout board? I'd like to make something that allows my parport-connected devices to be used with the Bone, but maybe others would rather have a much wider I/O device, maybe a couple dozen inputs and outputs from the PRU-accessible pins. So, any thoughts would be welcome. Jon Not that I have a dog in this fight Jon, I don't expect to have to replace these atom's I bought anytime soon, but it seems to me it should allow the more or less std 26 pin IDC connector to be used so it could plug straight into our existing BOB's. Here of course I am assuming the .hal file could put the right signals on the right pins. That generally is up to us anyway. Perhaps 2 of the connectors on yours, for those with more I/O needs than one EPP port can supply. But I haven't studied it well enough to know if the PRU has enough I/O to fill up the 2nd connector. That would be pure icing on the cake IMO if it did. Cheers, Gene -- There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order. -Ed Howdershelt (Author) My web page:http://coyoteden.dyndns-free.com:85/gene is up! My views http://www.armchairpatriot.com/What%20Has%20America%20Become.shtml There's so much plastic in this culture that vinyl leopard skin is becoming an endangered synthetic. -- Lily Tomlin A pen in the hand of this president is far more
Re: [Emc-users] ?Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
Hi Steve, Sounds like you have your head in the game..Smart! :-) I have no clue how successful the BeagleBone is going to be. But it sure is interesting! It could really be a game changer. I'm going to try hard to get to Wichita and so far I have been able to keep my schedule clear for that week. It could be a very interesting gathering. The design is based around a programmable logic device to minimize the impact of incorrect assumptions of how the Beagle Bone Black is pinned out and configured. Very smart as this bleeding edge stuff sometimes needs different accommodations! :-) Regards, Dave Cole Cole Controls On 4/28/2013 9:56 PM, Steve Stallings wrote: Dave, PMDX is considering just such a product and is trying to figure out what things are needed for a real industrial control. Meanwhile, we are actually working on a cape to be used as a test platform at Wichita. It will use the parallel port header approach along with other debugging stuff. It can be used together with PMDX-112/PMDX-111 debugging accessories, or it could simply be used as parallel ports to drive an existing breakout board. The design is based around a programmable logic device to minimize the impact of incorrect assumptions of how the Beagle Bone Black is pinned out and configured. Regards, Steve Stallings www.PMDX.com -Original Message- From: Dave [mailto:e...@dc9.tzo.com] Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 9:23 PM To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) Subject: Re: [Emc-users] ?Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image I disagree. If you want a killer product for the BeagleBone Black, you need to toss the EPP port concept entirely and have the BeagleBone Plug into the Breakout board - similar to a cape. But make it larger and put 24 volt DC I/O on it, along with analog I/O, Encoder ins, and step and direction I/O. To me that would be an attractive package. I really dislike 5volt I/O for field I/O. 24 volt DC I/O is much more reliable and is the current industry standard. You could have two versions - one for step and direction and another for Analog servo, but I think I would design one board. The only reason anyone ever used the EPP LPT port was because it was cheap and already part of the PC. I have no desire to reuse old BOBs and keep it PC compatible. Dave On 4/28/2013 8:57 PM, dave wrote: Considering the fact that good BOB's cost pretty much what the B3 does being able to plug to current BOB's would be nice. Dave On Sun, 2013-04-28 at 14:55 -0700, Greg Bernard wrote: I'm with Gene on this. For the short term, at least, a parallel port adapter (or 2) would allow existing BOB's to be used. But the ideal would be a dedicated cape that could provide the functionality of a Mesa or Pico Systems board. ++ + Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist. -Kenneth Boulding, economist How unfortunate that the Earth's first intelligent social animal is a tribal carnivore -E.O. Wilson, sociobiologist From: Gene Heskettghesk...@wdtv.com To: emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2013 4:40 PM Subject: Re: [Emc-users] ?Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image On Sunday 28 April 2013 17:29:54 Jon Elson did opine: Eric Keller wrote: On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Jon Elsonel...@pico-systems.com wrote: Is there a consensus about BeagleBone vs. Raspberry Pi? I think it's a no-brainer myself. I have a Raspi, but I just don't see it competing with the bbb OK, this was my take on the hardware, but there was so much RPi discussion here, I thought that might be the way development was headed. I support the Beagle direction, too, and hope much of what I have learned on the original Beagle will port over to the Bone. So, if I were going to make something for the Bone, should it be like a PC parallel port, or some other kind of breakout board? I'd like to make something that allows my parport-connected devices to be used with the Bone, but maybe others would rather have a much wider I/O device, maybe a couple dozen inputs and outputs from the PRU-accessible pins. So, any thoughts would be welcome. Jon Not that I have a dog in this fight Jon, I don't expect to have to replace these atom's I bought anytime soon, but it seems to me it should allow the more or less std 26 pin IDC connector
Re: [Emc-users] Beaglebone LinuxCNC starterkit: ready-to-run SD card image
Another plan might be to make an FPGA board specific for the Bone, but what do I do with all the inventory I already have, here? Obviously you are not the only one in that boat! But I don't think the PC based CNC market is going to vanish overnight even if the BeagleBone is wildly successful.. as this is bleeding edge at this point and it will take a while to shake things out. But long term, it certainly could be a game changer. So, FPGAs still have something to offer. I entirely agree. One thing that really got my attention with the BeagleBone is that Canbus and Profibus capes are in the works and those are targeted directly at the industrial automation market. Dave On 4/28/2013 10:25 PM, Jon Elson wrote: Dave wrote: I disagree. If you want a killer product for the BeagleBone Black, you need to toss the EPP port concept entirely and have the BeagleBone Plug into the Breakout board - similar to a cape. Yes, I mostly agree with this. What I had in mind was to put an 8-bit plus control signals interface in the adapter so that it could connect to my existing boards, as a first step. Then, I can change the firmware on my boards to handle a much faster protocol between the ARM and my FPGAs. Another plan might be to make an FPGA board specific for the Bone, but what do I do with all the inventory I already have, here? The problem is in a mid-performance servo system, the PRU may not be fast enough to read encoders and produce PWM for the servo drives. Since there are two PRU units, this may not actually be true, but I still imagine that a completely software encoder counter would take at least several us, maybe tens of us to complete for 4 or more axes, so that would limit the maximum encoder count frequency. I have often run into the 1 MHz default count rate on my boards. So, a 100 KHz count limit would be at least a concern. Also, using the PRU to generate PWM, I'd imagine the timing resolution would be a us or so, at best. I have 25 ns timing resolution with my PWM controller. So, FPGAs still have something to offer. Just some comments to throw out there. Jon -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users -- Try New Relic Now We'll Send You this Cool Shirt New Relic is the only SaaS-based application performance monitoring service that delivers powerful full stack analytics. Optimize and monitor your browser, app, servers with just a few lines of code. Try New Relic and get this awesome Nerd Life shirt! http://p.sf.net/sfu/newrelic_d2d_apr ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
