Re: [Emc-users] Tune up- HAL Oscilloscope./NEW picture
Hi I reduced Default_valacity =1. Max_velacity =2.0 Default_acceleration = 2.0 Max_acceleration =3.0 The picture is: www.conceptmachinery.com/Sh12.jpg I reduced most of them by 2-3 times and graph looks good. I will post it in 20 minutes. I am interesting why my drive can not output more voltage? Not power enough? It is SD-94 8 amp constant from servo dynamic http://www.servodynamics.com/sd94p_servodrive.html thanks Aram [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I have another pic http://www.conceptmachinery.com/Sh11.jpg On the graph X pos-cmd commanded position. Xpos-fb Xpos-cmd commanded position and it parallel to Xpos-fb. That what is should be? X output begins ok but ends wrong. Think X output should looks like trapeze. If you ask for more velocity than the drive can produce, then the command will hit the limit, as you are seeing. Try this at a lower speed, and see if it works better. Otherwise, it is what one would suspect - a wild discontinuity as the drive recovers from running open-loop for 400 ms. What need to change to make second part of X output looks like first? My current P 230, I 1.8, D0. Also pid.0.error should be similar graph to X output, is this right. When X output become flat so should be pid.0.error become flat. You are commanding higher velocity than the drive can deliver, EMC is no longer in control of the motor, so the error is unbounded. What should I change here Slow down, or change whatever is needed to allow the drive to put out more voltage (speed) to the motor. Jon - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Tune up- HAL Oscilloscope./NEW picture
On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 20:20 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I reduced Default_valacity =1. Max_velacity =2.0 Default_acceleration = 2.0 Max_acceleration =3.0 The picture is: www.conceptmachinery.com/Sh12.jpg I reduced most of them by 2-3 times and graph looks good. I will post it in 20 minutes. I am interesting why my drive can not output more voltage? Not power enough? It is SD-94 8 amp constant from servo dynamic http://www.servodynamics.com/sd94p_servodrive.html thanks Aram This drive has its own PID feedback built in. You may need to decide which PID loopback system you want to use, EMC2 or servo drive. I would go with a dumb motor amp myself. Or, others here have a way to deal with smart drivers. Or, I may be, all together, off base. Kirk http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Tune up- HAL Oscilloscope./NEW picture
On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 20:20 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I reduced Default_valacity =1. Max_velacity =2.0 Default_acceleration = 2.0 Max_acceleration =3.0 The picture is: www.conceptmachinery.com/Sh12.jpg I reduced most of them by 2-3 times and graph looks good. I will post it in 20 minutes. I am interesting why my drive can not output more voltage? Not power enough? It is SD-94 8 amp constant from servo dynamic http://www.servodynamics.com/sd94p_servodrive.html thanks Aram This drive has its own PID feedback built in. You may need to decide which PID loopback system you want to use, EMC2 or servo drive. I would go with a dumb motor amp myself. Or, others here have a way to deal with smart drivers. Or, I may be, all together, off base. Yes, drive can close loop but i use EMC2 to close loop. Kirk http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Tune up- HAL Oscilloscope./NEW picture
On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 19:52 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote: On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 20:20 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I reduced Default_valacity =1. Max_velacity =2.0 Default_acceleration = 2.0 Max_acceleration =3.0 The picture is: www.conceptmachinery.com/Sh12.jpg I reduced most of them by 2-3 times and graph looks good. I will post it in 20 minutes. I am interesting why my drive can not output more voltage? Not power enough? It is SD-94 8 amp constant from servo dynamic http://www.servodynamics.com/sd94p_servodrive.html thanks Aram This drive has its own PID feedback built in. You may need to decide which PID loopback system you want to use, EMC2 or servo drive. I would go with a dumb motor amp myself. Or, others here have a way to deal with smart drivers. Or, I may be, all together, off base. Kirk http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ Oops, I just realized you are driving brushless motors, so maybe you need to remove the EMC2 feedback PID, drive the driver from EMC2 in open loop like a stepper or DC Gecko drive. The PID tuning will be done on the brushless drive using the vendors tuning software. (?) Kirk http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Tune up- HAL Oscilloscope./NEW picture
On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 19:52 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote: On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 20:20 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I reduced Default_valacity =1. Max_velacity =2.0 Default_acceleration = 2.0 Max_acceleration =3.0 The picture is: www.conceptmachinery.com/Sh12.jpg I reduced most of them by 2-3 times and graph looks good. I will post it in 20 minutes. I am interesting why my drive can not output more voltage? Not power enough? It is SD-94 8 amp constant from servo dynamic http://www.servodynamics.com/sd94p_servodrive.html thanks Aram This drive has its own PID feedback built in. You may need to decide which PID loopback system you want to use, EMC2 or servo drive. I would go with a dumb motor amp myself. Or, others here have a way to deal with smart drivers. Or, I may be, all together, off base. Kirk http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ Oops, I just realized you are driving brushless motors, so maybe you need to remove the EMC2 feedback PID, drive the driver from EMC2 in open loop like a stepper or DC Gecko drive. The PID tuning will be done on the brushless drive using the vendors tuning software. (?) why do i need vender software? EMC2 will close loop. SD94 come with package that includes stuff that i do not need. It is good but has special sofware etc that i do not need. Kirk http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Tune up- HAL Oscilloscope./NEW picture
Kirk Kirk Wallace wrote: On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 20:20 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I reduced Default_valacity =1. Max_velacity =2.0 Default_acceleration = 2.0 Max_acceleration =3.0 The picture is: www.conceptmachinery.com/Sh12.jpg I reduced most of them by 2-3 times and graph looks good. I will post it in 20 minutes. I am interesting why my drive can not output more voltage? Not power enough? It is SD-94 8 amp constant from servo dynamic http://www.servodynamics.com/sd94p_servodrive.html thanks Aram This drive has its own PID feedback built in. You may need to decide which PID loopback system you want to use, EMC2 or servo drive. I would go with a dumb motor amp myself. Or, others here have a way to deal with smart drivers. Or, I may be, all together, off base. Kirk http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users you're right often a cnc control loop will fight a driver control loop because there's 2 loops controlling one process and one must be dummied up so the other can be boss and usually the cnc control cannot be dummied so the driver P gain gets 'weakened' ( i and d may get nulled so the driver is basically P ) anyway you mention a 'dumb' driver anything you know of for AC drives? i've done this with lots of copley's but those were dc brushed amps thanks tomp - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Tune up- HAL Oscilloscope./NEW picture
On Nov 30, 2008, at 8:27 PM, tomp wrote: Kirk Kirk Wallace wrote: On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 20:20 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I reduced Default_valacity =1. Max_velacity =2.0 Default_acceleration = 2.0 Max_acceleration =3.0 The picture is: www.conceptmachinery.com/Sh12.jpg I reduced most of them by 2-3 times and graph looks good. I will post it in 20 minutes. I am interesting why my drive can not output more voltage? Not power enough? It is SD-94 8 amp constant from servo dynamic http://www.servodynamics.com/sd94p_servodrive.html thanks Aram This drive has its own PID feedback built in. You may need to decide which PID loopback system you want to use, EMC2 or servo drive. I would go with a dumb motor amp myself. Or, others here have a way to deal with smart drivers. Or, I may be, all together, off base. Kirk http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users you're right often a cnc control loop will fight a driver control loop because there's 2 loops controlling one process and one must be dummied up so the other can be boss and usually the cnc control cannot be dummied so the driver P gain gets 'weakened' ( i and d may get nulled so the driver is basically P ) anyway you mention a 'dumb' driver anything you know of for AC drives? i've done this with lots of copley's but those were dc brushed amps thanks tomp Hi Tom, Yes, I think that is exactly the idea. Use only P ( on the drive) and lower P to the point where the drive needs between 9 10 volts to go max velocity. Set other parameters to zero and then start tuning the P and FF1 in emc, then go on from there. If that doesn't work then have a conversation with Servo Dynamics; I've always found them to be very helpful. Dave -- --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Tune up- HAL Oscilloscope./NEW picture
aram [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 19:52 -0800, Kirk Wallace wrote: On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 20:20 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I reduced Default_valacity =1. Max_velacity =2.0 Default_acceleration = 2.0 Max_acceleration =3.0 The picture is: www.conceptmachinery.com/Sh12.jpg I reduced most of them by 2-3 times and graph looks good. I will post it in 20 minutes. I am interesting why my drive can not output more voltage? Not power enough? It is SD-94 8 amp constant from servo dynamic http://www.servodynamics.com/sd94p_servodrive.html thanks Aram This drive has its own PID feedback built in. You may need to decide which PID loopback system you want to use, EMC2 or servo drive. I would go with a dumb motor amp myself. Or, others here have a way to deal with smart drivers. Or, I may be, all together, off base. Kirk http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ Oops, I just realized you are driving brushless motors, so maybe you need to remove the EMC2 feedback PID, drive the driver from EMC2 in open loop like a stepper or DC Gecko drive. The PID tuning will be done on the brushless drive using the vendors tuning software. (?) why do i need vender software? EMC2 will close loop. SD94 come with package that includes stuff that i do not need. It is good but has special sofware etc that i do not need. Kirk http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users you are right emc will close your loop kirk suggests that the driver tuning may be complicated by emc control he is correct the emc loop contains the driver loop but dont worry, it is a small issue begin by using the manfacturer's tuning instructions to move nice without emc then use emc to move , and adjust the parameters for your best result ( this is exactly the course you have followed ) there is a small issue of performance dont let small things stop the big thing :) your system will be stable enough to adjust better at a later time it will not be all wrong it will be good perfect is very difficult :) begin with good! best of luck tomp - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Tune up- HAL Oscilloscope./NEW picture
tomp wrote: you mention a 'dumb' driver anything you know of for AC drives? i've done this with lots of copley's but those were dc brushed amps I have my $150 PWM brushless servo amps, which can be driven by my universal PWM controller. The amp just delivers supply voltage x the PWM duty cycle to the motor, unless current reaches the limit value. So, it is a REALLY dumb amp, no torque control loop, no sinusoidal drive, no encoder input. it does need commutation signals. I've driven Giddings Lewis, Pittman, Servo Dynamics and Panasonic motors with excellent results. I've tried a few others with mixed results, mostly a lot of motor vibration, due to the six-step drive. See http://pico-systems.com/acservo.html for more info. Jon - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Tune up- HAL Oscilloscope./NEW picture
On Sun, 2008-11-30 at 22:27 -0600, tomp wrote: ... snip you mention a 'dumb' driver anything you know of for AC drives? i've done this with lots of copley's but those were dc brushed amps thanks tomp I am out of my league here, but I had Jon's new brushless amp in mind. -- Kirk http://www.wallacecompany.com/machine_shop/ - This SF.Net email is sponsored by the Moblin Your Move Developer's challenge Build the coolest Linux based applications with Moblin SDK win great prizes Grand prize is a trip for two to an Open Source event anywhere in the world http://moblin-contest.org/redirect.php?banner_id=100url=/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
