Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

On Sun, 14 Feb 2016, Jürgen Hestermann wrote: Am 2016-02-11 um 14:21 schrieb Sven Barth: If they are just learning the language then they shouldn't poke around in the core units anyway. That's what the documentation and help is for. Back when I started learning TP I didn't have the internet

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

Am 2016-02-11 um 14:21 schrieb Sven Barth: > If they are just learning the language then they shouldn't poke around in the core units anyway. That's what the documentation and help is for. > Back when I started learning TP I didn't have the internet and I didn't have the sources of the units. I

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

Am 11.02.2016 00:23 schrieb "Anthony Walter" : > > For those who didn't understand what I meant by using regions in the interface section rather than include files, here is an image of what is essentially in SysUtils currently: > >

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

On 02/11/2016 06:51 AM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: On Thu, 11 Feb 2016, Mattias Gaertner wrote: Michael Van Canneyt hat am 11. Februar 2016 um 04:27 geschrieben: [...] Lazarus IDE shows a tooltip when you hover over an identifier with the mouse. I suspect it will take

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

> This won't be changed. Period. Sven, not to be argumentative, but you do get that for a long time programmers have learned how to write code and use libraries by examining them? My goal is simply to make it easier for the people who would want to pick up and start using Lazarus. Organizing

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

On Thu, 11 Feb 2016, Mattias Gaertner wrote: Michael Van Canneyt hat am 11. Februar 2016 um 04:27 geschrieben: [...] Lazarus IDE shows a tooltip when you hover over an identifier with the mouse. I suspect it will take one on the team less than 10-minutes to add the

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

On Thu, 11 Feb 2016, Anthony Walter wrote: Michael, a question: How much of the interface section of units differ per platform? Is it 1% of the code? Is it 5% of the code? With the xml2 unit it's 0%, yet all of the declarations are nested in several layers of include files: Numbers are

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

On Thu, 11 Feb 2016, Anthony Walter wrote: This won't be changed. Period. Sven, not to be argumentative, Funny. You _are_ argumentative, considering the answers you got and number of posts :-) (no offense intended) but you do get that for a long time programmers have learned how to

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

> Michael Van Canneyt hat am 11. Februar 2016 um 04:27 > geschrieben: >[...] > Lazarus IDE shows a tooltip when you hover over an identifier with the mouse. > I suspect it will take one on the team less than 10-minutes to add the unit > name to the tooltip, in addition to

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

On 2016-02-11 11:51, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: > It's a coder... It's a hacker... it's SuperMattias ! :-D LOL G. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org http://lists.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fpc-pascal

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

Am 11.02.2016 11:41 schrieb "Anthony Walter" : > > > This won't be changed. Period. > > Sven, not to be argumentative, but you do get that for a long time programmers have learned how to write code and use libraries by examining them? My goal is simply to make it easier for the

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

Michael Van Canneyt wrote: he fact that you're the first to complain in 20 years (at least I cannot remember any others, and I've been around for a while) gives you an indication of the relative importance of your problem. I do share Anthony's (strong) dislike of include files (but I am not

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

In our previous episode, Juha Manninen said: [ Charset UTF-8 unsupported, converting... ] > On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 2:01 AM, Vojt?ch ?ih?k wrote: > > There exists IDE directive > > > > {%MainUnit ***.pas} > > > > and include files should contain it. > > Yes, that is the

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 4:09 PM, Sven Barth wrote: > What about include files included by other include files? Ok, that is a nasty situation. I think it should be avoided. Juha ___ fpc-pascal maillist -

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

On Wed, 10 Feb 2016, Juha Manninen wrote: On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 4:09 PM, Sven Barth wrote: What about include files included by other include files? Ok, that is a nasty situation. I think it should be avoided. Happens regularly in the RTL units, though.

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

Am 10.02.2016 15:55 schrieb "Juha Manninen" : > > On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 4:09 PM, Sven Barth wrote: > > What about include files included by other include files? > > Ok, that is a nasty situation. I think it should be avoided. Welcome to

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

Thanks everyone for taking notice in the include file problem. I'm note sure about other people, but to me its a problem that sometimes limits me from following the source code. Ideally there should be one file per unit with an interface section and an implementation section and no include files,

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

Juha, Okay then, maybe everyone should make a mental note and remember add the MainUnit directive to the include files they are editing if it doesn't already exist. But to ask again, what's the purpose of using include files for the interface section of units when most everything in the

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

On 2016-02-10 19:20, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: > You just need to look at the system or sysutils units from recent delphis to > see why include files are the better option, As someone that doesn't have access to recent Delphi versions, would you mind sharing a small example if you can. I'm not

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

On Wed, Feb 10, 2016 at 3:32 PM, Graeme Geldenhuys < mailingli...@geldenhuys.co.uk> wrote: > On 2016-02-10 19:20, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: > > You just need to look at the system or sysutils units from recent > delphis to > > see why include files are the better option, > As someone that

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

On 2016-02-10 19:12, Anthony Walter wrote: > I think the thing is I can't help but feel there should be a better system > for organizing implementations for different systems. Often some clever usage of design patterns can help, but more often than not, using include files are just a faster and

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

On 2016-02-10 19:45, Juha Manninen wrote: > Thus, Lazarus editor fully understands include files unlike Delphi' editor. The knock-on affect of include files, is that pascal parsers are much more complex to write. Luckily we already have quite a few pascal parsers available, which already work

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

Oh and when the MainUnit directive is included at the top of an include file, how does this affect include files where the declaration is another include files, or include files which next other include files? ___ fpc-pascal maillist -

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

> Sven Barth hat am 10. Februar 2016 um 15:09 > geschrieben: > [...] > > The {%...} directive is a comment in other contexts and can be used safely. > > What about include files included by other include files? That is no problem for the MainUnit directive. The

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

What about the interface section includes and {$region} option I described. Does anyone care to discuss that option? Please go back a few messages and read what I wrote. ___ fpc-pascal maillist - fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

On Wed, February 10, 2016 22:04, Anthony Walter wrote: > What about the interface section includes and {$region} option I > described. > Does anyone care to discuss that option? Please go back a few messages and > read what I wrote. I don't get your $region idea, but as a maintainer of one of the

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

In our previous episode, Tomas Hajny said: > at platform level, sometimes it makes sense to use a common include file > for a set of targets sharing a common set of characteristics (various MS > Windows targets or Unix targets) in order to simplify the maintenance, > etc. Trying to cover that in

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

Am 10.02.2016 21:03 schrieb "Anthony Walter" : > But to ask again, what's the purpose of using include files for the interface section of units when most everything in the interface sections remain unchanged among different platforms? Surely we can move all those the parts back

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

Michael, a question: How much of the interface section of units differ per platform? Is it 1% of the code? Is it 5% of the code? With the xml2 unit it's 0%, yet all of the declarations are nested in several layers of include files: http://cache.getlazarus.org/images/xml2-unit.gif

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

> So my question is, how do the rest of you deal with include files and locating the unit including them? I don't know what "deal" here refers to, so I can't answer that. I seldom use include files except when I have to deal with what the compiler/rtl face: platform dependent implementation of

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

Am 10.02.2016 11:11 schrieb "Anthony Walter" : > > Marc, > > Your suggestions only work if a unit declaring the function is in your uses clauses. In the scenario I described that is clearly not the case. > > Additionally, and in a different scenario, when the identifier IS

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

Marc, Your suggestions only work if a unit declaring the function is in your uses clauses. In the scenario I described that is clearly not the case. Additionally, and in a different scenario, when the identifier IS defined and several units are in the uses clause the goto declaration can jump to

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

On Mi, 2016-02-10 at 05:10 -0500, Anthony Walter wrote: > Marc, > > Your suggestions only work if a unit declaring the function is in your uses > clauses. In the scenario I described that is clearly not the case. > > Additionally, and in a different scenario, when the identifier IS defined > and

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

On Wed, 10 Feb 2016, Anthony Walter wrote: What about the interface section includes and {$region} option I described. Does anyone care to discuss that option? Please go back a few messages and read what I wrote. It is not an option. As said: not everyone uses lazarus. Michael.

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

On Wed, 10 Feb 2016, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: On 2016-02-10 19:20, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: You just need to look at the system or sysutils units from recent delphis to see why include files are the better option, As someone that doesn't have access to recent Delphi versions, would you

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

For those who didn't understand what I meant by using regions in the interface section rather than include files, here is an image of what is essentially in SysUtils currently: http://cache.getlazarus.org/images/sysutils-include.gif Notice the unit file is opened the almost none of what it

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

ascal users discussions" <fpc-pascal@lists.freepascal.org> Datum: 10.02.2016 00:06 Předmět: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me I really don't like the include files with Lazarus and Free Pascal for the following reason:How the am I supposed to know which file is including

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

Ralf, A couple of points. 1) As I explained there are times when I, and probably other people as well, need to find the declaration of a function, constant, record, or some other identifier. We may not know if the function even exists or has been declared in Pascal, for example when attempting

[fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

I really don't like the include files with Lazarus and Free Pascal for the following reason: How the am I supposed to know which file is including an include file? Often times I am trying to find a function or class or some other identifier and I search files on disk for the name. Then it

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

On 2/9/2016 2:58 PM, Anthony Walter wrote: I really don't like the include files with Lazarus and Free Pascal for the following reason: How the am I supposed to know which file is including an include file? Often times I am trying to find a function or class or some other identifier

Re: [fpc-pascal] Please someone explain this to me

Am 10.02.2016 00:32 schrieb "Ralf Quint" : > > On 2/9/2016 2:58 PM, Anthony Walter wrote: >> >> I really don't like the include files with Lazarus and Free Pascal for the following reason: >> >> How the am I supposed to know which file is including an include file? >> >>