Re: [Framers] Does new FrameMaker actually split footnotes across pages? and SetPrint Qs

[Peter Gold]

Thanks for the chuckle, Wendy. Since you're talking about lawyers here,
perhaps cite an episode of "The Good Wife," in which Nathan Lane's
character advises the all-hands-on-deck team that's buried in zillions of
pages of discovery documents, that the key information they'll need to win
the giant case, is probably buried in the footnotes. What volunteer
attorney-author would want his/her contribution and credit buried pages
distant from the source in main text?

This could be their chance to show that it's possible to serve justice and
good documentation layout at the same time. :)



On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 7:38 AM Wendy McGovern  wrote:

> I appreciate the feedback for my questions, especially the positive notes
> from Reng Winfried and Lin Sims about Frame 2020. (It helps to hear that
> somebody actually does have some good experience with the software.) I
> would like to try the free trial of the new version but don't know if our
> IT department has a nonproduction computer that I could put it on that
> wouldn't screw anything up with our current Frame.
>
> Thanks to those who have replied. I did have a good laugh at Peter Gold's
> note:  "When I've had to wrestle with this issue, if there was time, and
> willingness to cooperate, I'd try to work with the author to re-write or
> re-order the material." We're dealing with lawyers here-we can barely get
> them to submit materials in the first place, let alone revise (most of them
> are volunteer authors, so there is no incentive other than getting their
> name in the book and having contributed to the book as an expert on the
> topic).
>
> I actually had thought of SetPrint-does anyone know how to get a copy of
> it? We have just two people now, so that's all we would need. We're on
> Windows 10, Frame 7.0, using Acrobat X Pro. Does it have to be installed by
> an Admin or is it simply something we could put in the Frame software
> folder ourselves?
>
> Wendy McGovern
>
>
> [Pennsylvania Bar Institute]
>
>
> Wendy McGovern
> Publications Editor
> Pennsylvania Bar Institute
> www.pbi.org
>
>
>
> ___
>
> This message is from the Framers mailing list
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> Send messages to framers@lists.frameusers.com
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Re: [Framers] Does new FrameMaker actually split footnotes across pages? and SetPrint Qs

[Fred Ridder]

https://sundorne.com/FrameMaker/Freeware/setPrint.htm


From: Framers  on 
behalf of Wendy McGovern 
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2021 8:38 AM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com 
Subject: Re: [Framers] Does new FrameMaker actually split footnotes across 
pages? and SetPrint Qs

I appreciate the feedback for my questions, especially the positive notes from 
Reng Winfried and Lin Sims about Frame 2020. (It helps to hear that somebody 
actually does have some good experience with the software.) I would like to try 
the free trial of the new version but don't know if our IT department has a 
nonproduction computer that I could put it on that wouldn't screw anything up 
with our current Frame.

Thanks to those who have replied. I did have a good laugh at Peter Gold's note: 
 "When I've had to wrestle with this issue, if there was time, and willingness 
to cooperate, I'd try to work with the author to re-write or re-order the 
material." We're dealing with lawyers here-we can barely get them to submit 
materials in the first place, let alone revise (most of them are volunteer 
authors, so there is no incentive other than getting their name in the book and 
having contributed to the book as an expert on the topic).

I actually had thought of SetPrint-does anyone know how to get a copy of it? We 
have just two people now, so that's all we would need. We're on Windows 10, 
Frame 7.0, using Acrobat X Pro. Does it have to be installed by an Admin or is 
it simply something we could put in the Frame software folder ourselves?

Wendy McGovern


[Pennsylvania Bar 
Institute]<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pbi.org%2Fdata=04%7C01%7C%7C37208de97c6f402a818e08d92cd5e0d4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637590119375895334%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=XyFsBGqcQZTQ7s6PgUBcvmc%2FXcbJwV3aUD6bXJ46OGE%3Dreserved=0>


Wendy McGovern
Publications Editor
Pennsylvania Bar Institute
https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pbi.org%2Fdata=04%7C01%7C%7C37208de97c6f402a818e08d92cd5e0d4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637590119375895334%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=XyFsBGqcQZTQ7s6PgUBcvmc%2FXcbJwV3aUD6bXJ46OGE%3Dreserved=0<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pbi.org%2Fdata=04%7C01%7C%7C37208de97c6f402a818e08d92cd5e0d4%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637590119375895334%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=XyFsBGqcQZTQ7s6PgUBcvmc%2FXcbJwV3aUD6bXJ46OGE%3Dreserved=0>



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Re: [Framers] Does new FrameMaker actually split footnotes across pages? and SetPrint Qs

[Reng Winfried]

Hi Wendy,

Yes. Thank you for your comments!
When you can create a virtual box on your PC, you can install a test version of 
FrameMaker 2020 there.

SetPrint is a little freeware utiliy. Just download the dll and copy it into 
the specified folder.
Create a small text file SetPrint.ini (as described on the SetPrint website) 
and put it into  the same folder as the dll.
Then close and restart FrameMaker.
That's it.
https://sundorne.com/FrameMaker/Freeware/setPrint.htm

Best regards

Winfried

-Original Message-
From: Framers 
 On Behalf 
Of Wendy McGovern
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2021 2:39 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: Re: [Framers] Does new FrameMaker actually split footnotes across 
pages? and SetPrint Qs

I appreciate the feedback for my questions, especially the positive notes from 
Reng Winfried and Lin Sims about Frame 2020. (It helps to hear that somebody 
actually does have some good experience with the software.) I would like to try 
the free trial of the new version but don't know if our IT department has a 
nonproduction computer that I could put it on that wouldn't screw anything up 
with our current Frame.

Thanks to those who have replied. I did have a good laugh at Peter Gold's note: 
 "When I've had to wrestle with this issue, if there was time, and willingness 
to cooperate, I'd try to work with the author to re-write or re-order the 
material." We're dealing with lawyers here-we can barely get them to submit 
materials in the first place, let alone revise (most of them are volunteer 
authors, so there is no incentive other than getting their name in the book and 
having contributed to the book as an expert on the topic).

I actually had thought of SetPrint-does anyone know how to get a copy of it? We 
have just two people now, so that's all we would need. We're on Windows 10, 
Frame 7.0, using Acrobat X Pro. Does it have to be installed by an Admin or is 
it simply something we could put in the Frame software folder ourselves?

Wendy McGovern


[Pennsylvania Bar Institute]<http://www.pbi.org>


Wendy McGovern
Publications Editor
Pennsylvania Bar Institute
www.pbi.org<http://www.pbi.org>
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Re: [Framers] Does new FrameMaker actually split footnotes across pages? and SetPrint Qs

[Wendy McGovern]

I appreciate the feedback for my questions, especially the positive notes from 
Reng Winfried and Lin Sims about Frame 2020. (It helps to hear that somebody 
actually does have some good experience with the software.) I would like to try 
the free trial of the new version but don't know if our IT department has a 
nonproduction computer that I could put it on that wouldn't screw anything up 
with our current Frame.

Thanks to those who have replied. I did have a good laugh at Peter Gold's note: 
 "When I've had to wrestle with this issue, if there was time, and willingness 
to cooperate, I'd try to work with the author to re-write or re-order the 
material." We're dealing with lawyers here-we can barely get them to submit 
materials in the first place, let alone revise (most of them are volunteer 
authors, so there is no incentive other than getting their name in the book and 
having contributed to the book as an expert on the topic).

I actually had thought of SetPrint-does anyone know how to get a copy of it? We 
have just two people now, so that's all we would need. We're on Windows 10, 
Frame 7.0, using Acrobat X Pro. Does it have to be installed by an Admin or is 
it simply something we could put in the Frame software folder ourselves?

Wendy McGovern


[Pennsylvania Bar Institute]


Wendy McGovern
Publications Editor
Pennsylvania Bar Institute
www.pbi.org



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Re: [Framers] Does new FrameMaker actually split footnotes across pages?

[Peter Gold]

Argh... Ghosts and legacies of last-century engineering design. InDesign's
composition engine was born smart, and kept evolving. ID overall has gotten
closer and closer to FM technical authoring and book tool set.

But, the cost of migrating individual authors, tech-publishing departments,
and large legacy inventories, far outweigh most gains in convenience,
features, and typographic improvements.

One glimmer of possibly migrating comes from FM's new subscription model,
which obviates the cost of purchasing new standalone licenses.


On Wed, Jun 9, 2021, 4:38 PM Graeme R Forbes 
wrote:

> Klause Daube wrote: “Fact is:
> FM 16...just moves the whole note to be on the same page as the reference
> number, leaving a big ugly gap on the page.”
>
> And it’s 2021. Extraordinary. It’s not as if Adobe doesn’t employ people
> who know how to do footnotes — they work fine in InDesign. So I guess that
> in FM you are still stuck with the early 90's technique of manually
> splitting using an anchored frame for the overflow.
>
> Graeme Forbes
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Re: [Framers] Does new FrameMaker actually split footnotes across pages?

[Graeme R Forbes]

Klause Daube wrote: “Fact is:
FM 16...just moves the whole note to be on the same page as the reference 
number, leaving a big ugly gap on the page.”

And it’s 2021. Extraordinary. It’s not as if Adobe doesn’t employ people who 
know how to do footnotes — they work fine in InDesign. So I guess that in FM 
you are still stuck with the early 90's technique of manually splitting using 
an anchored frame for the overflow.

Graeme Forbes
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Re: [Framers] Does new FrameMaker actually split footnotes across pages?

[Peter Gold]

When I've had to wrestle with this issue, if there was time, and
willingness to cooperate, I'd try to work with the author to re-write or
re-order the material. Yes, madness, but doesn't page beauty someone's
justify it.

On Wed, Jun 9, 2021, 2:03 AM Klaus Daube  wrote:

> On 8 Jun 2021 at 15:25, Wendy McGovern wrote:
>
> > I'm still a little skeptical, though, whether the new version actually
> "splits"
> > the footnote like Word does and puts part of the note on the next page or
> > whether the new Frame just moves the whole note to be on the same page
> as the
> > reference number, leaving a big ugly gap on the page.
>
> Yes, Wendy it goes this way:
> Setting "Keep Footnote with Anchor" on Footnote Properties just does what
> You
> describe.
>
> Klaus
>
> ~~~
> Klaus Daube Phone:  +41-44-381 37 77
> Schäracher 11   Mail:   kl...@daube.ch
> CH-8053 Zürich  Web:www.daube.ch
>
>
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Re: [Framers] Does new FrameMaker actually split footnotes across pages?

[Klaus Daube]

On 9 Jun 2021 at 14:48, Craig Ede wrote:

> So which does it do? The first (like Word) or the second 
> option Wendy describes?

Oh, sorry, my sententence contains plenty of ambigoutiy.
Fact is:
FM 16 (aka 2020) just moves the whole note to be on the same page as the 
reference 
number, leaving a big ugly gap on the page.

Klaus

~~~
Klaus Daube Phone:  +41-44-381 37 77
Schäracher 11   Mail:   kl...@daube.ch
CH-8053 Zürich  Web:www.daube.ch


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Re: [Framers] Does new FrameMaker actually split footnotes across pages?

[Craig Ede]

So which does it do? The first (like Word) or the second option Wendy describes?

Craig




Wendy McGovern wrote:

> I'm still a little skeptical, though, whether the new version actually 
> "splits"
> the footnote like Word does and puts part of the note on the next page or
> whether the new Frame just moves the whole note to be on the same page as the
> reference number, leaving a big ugly gap on the page.

Yes, Wendy it goes this way:
Setting "Keep Footnote with Anchor" on Footnote Properties just does what You
describe.

Klaus

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Re: [Framers] Does new FrameMaker actually split footnotes across pages?

[Klaus Daube]

On 8 Jun 2021 at 15:25, Wendy McGovern wrote:

> I'm still a little skeptical, though, whether the new version actually 
> "splits"
> the footnote like Word does and puts part of the note on the next page or
> whether the new Frame just moves the whole note to be on the same page as the
> reference number, leaving a big ugly gap on the page.

Yes, Wendy it goes this way:
Setting "Keep Footnote with Anchor" on Footnote Properties just does what You 
describe.

Klaus

~~~
Klaus Daube Phone:  +41-44-381 37 77
Schäracher 11   Mail:   kl...@daube.ch
CH-8053 Zürich  Web:www.daube.ch


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Re: [Framers] Does new FrameMaker actually split footnotes across pages?

[Reng Winfried]

Hi,

I use FM 2020, and I would never go back!

Regarding your font issue: Do you use the SetPrint utility?
With this small plug-in you can set a default printer only for FrameMaker,
e.g. Adobe PDF. This way nothing will change, when you create your
PDF files.
The file name extension of your PostScript files will always be ps and not prn.
As FM 2020 has its own publishing engine, you do not need this plugin in FM 
2020.

Best regards

Winfried

-Original Message-
From: Framers 
 On Behalf 
Of Wendy McGovern
Sent: Tuesday, June 8, 2021 5:25 PM
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: [Framers] Does new FrameMaker actually split footnotes across pages?

Hi, Framers!

We have been using Frame 7.0 forever and it has always been stable and worked 
for us, so we never upgraded (especially after hearing complaints from this 
list about the interface, problems, etc. of subsequent versions). We do have 
font issues in creating PDFs with the latest Acrobat, where switching printer 
drivers (we print to Postscript and distill to PDF) can cause slight font 
differences. Most of the time it doesn't cause any problems, but there have 
been instances of some bumped text.

I think we finally may switch to the latest Frame (will be using unstructured). 
I looked at the website demo and it looks like the basic product is the same; 
we just would have to get used to the different UI with its pods. But I 
couldn't believe they actually have fixed the footnote problem where the 
footnote bumps to the next page if it won't fit on the same page as its 
reference number.

I'm still a little skeptical, though, whether the new version actually "splits" 
the footnote like Word does and puts part of the note on the next page or 
whether the new Frame just moves the whole note to be on the same page as the 
reference number, leaving a big ugly gap on the page.

I'm also worried we'll have to go without IXGEN anymore, as I understand it 
only works with 32-bit and the new Frame is strictly 64-bit.

I love our good ol' Frame, but am tired of worrying about the font changes in 
PDFing and having to manually wrangle footnotes. Can anyone give me any advice 
on how good the latest version is? Now that it's subscription only, will we be 
stuck having to upgrade as new versions come out, whether we want to or not?

Wendy McGovern



[Pennsylvania Bar Institute]


Wendy McGovern
Publications Editor
Pennsylvania Bar Institute
5080 Ritter Rd, Mechanicsburg, PA 17055
(E) wmcgov...@pbi.org  (P) 717-620-6257
(P) 800-932-4637, ext. 6257  (F) 717-796-2348 www.pbi.org 

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Re: [Framers] Does new FrameMaker actually split footnotes across pages?

[Lin Sims]

On Tue, Jun 8, 2021 at 11:25 AM Wendy McGovern  wrote:

> Hi, Framers!
>
> I'm still a little skeptical, though, whether the new version actually
> "splits" the footnote like Word does and puts part of the note on the next
> page or whether the new Frame just moves the whole note to be on the same
> page as the reference number, leaving a big ugly gap on the page.
>
> As I understand it, it does NOT split the footnote. Instead, it moves the
text containing the footnote reference and the footnote to the next page.
This is not a feature I use much, so I can't confirm this.


> I'm also worried we'll have to go without IXGEN anymore, as I understand
> it only works with 32-bit and the new Frame is strictly 64-bit.
>
> The new FM is 64-bit only. According to the IXGEN website, updates are
made as changes to a new FM "affect IXgen performance." The last time I
discussed this with Frank Sterns, he suggested keeping both 32-bit and a
64-bit versions of FM and converting between them to use IXgen.  I'd
contact them and find out if they're working on a 64-bit version, since
there's no way for you to get a more recent 32-bit version of FM than the
one you already have.


> I love our good ol' Frame, but am tired of worrying about the font changes
> in PDFing and having to manually wrangle footnotes. Can anyone give me any
> advice on how good the latest version is? Now that it's subscription only,
> will we be stuck having to upgrade as new versions come out, whether we
> want to or not?
>
> FM does not, currently, automatically install updates the same way that
other Adobe products do. I don't know if they plan to change that in the
future or not.

Personally, I've been enjoying working in the newest FMs. It's a little
less stable than it used to be in version 8, but it is still far, far more
stable than Word. The new features range from massive changes to little
tweaks that make things easier. For example, the BookMIFWash Utility is now
installed automatically instead of forcing you to open a C file to find out
where to copy the DLL and how to update the maker.ini file. They've added a
couple of buttons on the Tables toolbar to let you remove an individual
column or row with a button click. ExpressScript lets you write scripts
without needing to compile them into DLLs.

I suggest downloading the trial and seeing how it works for you. You get
about a month to pound on it, which should give you plenty of time to see
if it works for you. :)
-- 
Lin Sims
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Re: [Framers] Does new FrameMaker actually split footnotes across pages?

[Ragnar Hanås]

I'm still on 7.2 and don't intend to switch. No problems printing a 20-chapter 
book to a ps file (although FM insists calling it .prn which I change to .ps). 
I then use Distiller X and get a nice pdf file for printing. I must remember to 
uncheck "Rely on systems fonts only, do not use document fonts" in Adobe PDF 
settings. I also like IXGEN and use Trados S-Tagger for translations so don't 
want to lose these if upgrading. And no subscription fees 
Ragnar Hanas
Uddevalla Hospital
Sweden

-Original Message-
From: Framers  On 
Behalf Of Wendy McGovern
Sent: den 8 juni 2021 17:25
To: framers@lists.frameusers.com
Subject: [Framers] Does new FrameMaker actually split footnotes across pages?

Hi, Framers!

We have been using Frame 7.0 forever and it has always been stable and worked 
for us, so we never upgraded (especially after hearing complaints from this 
list about the interface, problems, etc. of subsequent versions). We do have 
font issues in creating PDFs with the latest Acrobat, where switching printer 
drivers (we print to Postscript and distill to PDF) can cause slight font 
differences. Most of the time it doesn't cause any problems, but there have 
been instances of some bumped text.

I think we finally may switch to the latest Frame (will be using unstructured). 
I looked at the website demo and it looks like the basic product is the same; 
we just would have to get used to the different UI with its pods. But I 
couldn't believe they actually have fixed the footnote problem where the 
footnote bumps to the next page if it won't fit on the same page as its 
reference number.

I'm still a little skeptical, though, whether the new version actually "splits" 
the footnote like Word does and puts part of the note on the next page or 
whether the new Frame just moves the whole note to be on the same page as the 
reference number, leaving a big ugly gap on the page.

I'm also worried we'll have to go without IXGEN anymore, as I understand it 
only works with 32-bit and the new Frame is strictly 64-bit.

I love our good ol' Frame, but am tired of worrying about the font changes in 
PDFing and having to manually wrangle footnotes. Can anyone give me any advice 
on how good the latest version is? Now that it's subscription only, will we be 
stuck having to upgrade as new versions come out, whether we want to or not?

Wendy McGovern



[Pennsylvania Bar Institute]


Wendy McGovern
Publications Editor
Pennsylvania Bar Institute
5080 Ritter Rd, Mechanicsburg, PA 17055
(E) wmcgov...@pbi.org  (P) 717-620-6257
(P) 800-932-4637, ext. 6257  (F) 717-796-2348 www.pbi.org




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