Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

rom: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of glen ? Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 11:57 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion... On 06/15/2017 08:27 AM, Nick Thompson wrote: > &quo

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

On 06/15/2017 12:52 PM, Steven A Smith wrote: > From my point of view, Glen Zigged, while I remained on course. Of course, > from Glen's frame of reference, *he* was on a straight course and * Zagged. > That is why iterative discussion is required for conversation? If you agree that

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion... On 06/14/2017 05:36 PM, Steven A Smith wrote: Hairsplitting here (again), but I don't see what Nick or I did as *premature* registration, maybe *mis*registration?

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

Good job (narrowly) avoiding premature registration! From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 12:57 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion i

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

Glen writes: "And in that, they want to learn just enough about how/why it works so that they can know what they can do and how they can do it." With regard to my original remark to Nick, I claim that usually people really don't want to know something down to the quantum mechanics -- that is

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

On 06/15/2017 11:57 AM, Frank Wimberly wrote: > Shall we assume Renee' is Mrs. Glen? Yes, sorry ... another instance of me inscribing myself on the world. However, our partnership is neither condoned nor authorized by any religion or government. -- ☣ glen

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

Shall we assume Renee' is Mrs. Glen? Frank Wimberly Phone (505) 670-9918 On Jun 15, 2017 12:40 PM, "glen ☣" wrote: > On 06/15/2017 11:23 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > > But as for consumers of some product like Shazam, I can't imagine that > most have any interest at all in

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

On 06/15/2017 11:23 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > But as for consumers of some product like Shazam, I can't imagine that most > have any interest at all in how or why it works. Excellent! I keep finding nits to pick. 8^) Again, I'm not so sure. I had a difficult conversation today with

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

Glen writes: "But I think one of the key insights to all the yaddayadda around innovation and disruption is not that it doesn't need to be explained (in words). It's about the "phase" change the market goes through as they grok it (fully digest it in behavior as well as thought). Some

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

On 06/15/2017 10:19 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > Tech companies usually distinguish between marketing and R Marketing is > about connecting with the customer. R is about creating the magical device > that doesn't even need to be explained at a technical level. So what if it > apparently

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

Nick writes: "So I, as a writer, have to be very slow to be aggrieved when I am not understood." Tech companies usually distinguish between marketing and R Marketing is about connecting with the customer. R is about creating the magical device that doesn't even need to be explained at a

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

Aha! http://quoteinvestigator.com/2014/08/31/illusion/ > LET US RECAPITULATE A BIT: The great enemy of communication, we find, is the > illusion of it. We have talked enough; but we have not listened. And by not > listening we have failed to concede the immense complexity of our society–and

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

On 06/15/2017 08:27 AM, Nick Thompson wrote: > " It's the writer's job to balance and judge the amount of control ... ." > > So I, as a writer, have to be very slow to be aggrieved when I am not > understood. > > It's like the salesman blaming the customers for his not making the sale. I

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

m@redfish.com> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion... On 06/15/2017 06:38 AM, Nick Thompson wrote: > It is a writer's job to control the reference of his signs, in so far as s/he > can. I disagree completely with the ultimate consequences of what you're saying.

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

On 06/15/2017 06:38 AM, Nick Thompson wrote: > It is a writer's job to control the reference of his signs, in so far as s/he > can. I disagree completely with the ultimate consequences of what you're saying. There is a philosophy in many branches of engineering to do exactly that: to

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

Nick writes: "It is a writer's job to control the reference of his signs, in so far as s/he can. In writing code, you guys wouldn't put out a line of code without making clear what language you were writing in, would you?" Many non-trivial programs invent their own abstractions s and work

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

? Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 9:31 AM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion... On 06/14/2017 05:36 PM, Steven A Smith wrote: > Hairsplitting here (again), but I don't see what Nick or I did as *

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

oup <friam@redfish.com> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion... On 06/14/2017 05:36 PM, Steven A Smith wrote: > Hairsplitting here (again), but I don't see what Nick or I did as *premature* > registration, maybe *mis*registration? Or am I being "prematu

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

On 06/14/2017 05:36 PM, Steven A Smith wrote: > Hairsplitting here (again), but I don't see what Nick or I did as *premature* > registration, maybe *mis*registration? Or am I being "premature" again? Well, you could be right. But I do think it's premature, not merely mis-. What I think

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

"You're suggestion of memory limitations threw me at first. " I was thinking of an exposition as a special-purpose program, and a highly-optimized implementation as having a lower memory requirements than a general purpose program. If one had memory/attention limitations, it would make sense

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

G/M - Hairsplitting here (again), but I don't see what Nick or I did as *premature* registration, maybe *mis*registration? Or am I being "premature" again? BTW, B. Cantwell's "Origin of Objects"! What a classic, I haven't heard anyone else reference this one in forever! Marcus' riff

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

On 06/14/2017 03:46 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > Others behaviors come to mind, like the agent that requires or expects fully > contextualized unambiguous linear arguments. This could be due to long term > memory limitations, due to a desire to teach (supervisory learning), or an > agent that

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

Message- From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of glen ? Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 4:32 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion... Beautiful! Surely we don't need much imagi

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of glen ? > Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 2:43 PM > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion... > > > On 06/14/2017 01:29 PM, Marcus Daniel

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

3 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion... On 06/14/2017 01:29 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > The meaning is clear, but is this a term that is used in particular > communities? The reason I as

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

On 06/14/2017 01:29 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > The meaning is clear, but is this a term that is used in particular > communities? The reason I ask is that I deal with people all that time that > do this, and I'd like to be able to whack a book over their head, since they > like to do that

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

Glen writes: "It is nice to see another person admit to their premature registration!" The meaning is clear, but is this a term that is used in particular communities? The reason I ask is that I deal with people all that time that do this, and I'd like to be able to whack a book over their

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

Yes, an onion _does_ submit to a partial order if you use polar coordinates. On 06/12/2017 10:52 AM, Nick Thompson wrote: > At the risk of being dumb, I would say that when we peal an onion we get > layers; when we slice an onion, we get cross-sections; is there any way we > can get a "level"

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

rsity http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ -Original Message- From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Steven A Smith Sent: Monday, June 12, 2017 1:25 PM To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] so

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

On 06/12/2017 10:24 AM, Steven A Smith wrote: > I took it as a simple 'mis-registration'. I'll think about "premature" a > little more... Cf Brian Cantwell Smith in: https://global.oup.com/academic/product/philosophy-of-mental-representation-9780198250524?cc=us=en; > I think I get your point.

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

Glen - It is nice to see another person admit to their premature registration! Thanks. I took it as a simple 'mis-registration'. I'll think about "premature" a little more... I brought up an onion as an example of a thing that, when analyzed with levels produces a different result than

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

BTW I am (mostly) of the opinion (school of thought) that follows Lakoff and Johnson's premises from "Metaphors we Live by" (1980) where most language and thought involves metaphor. I think Lakoff revisits this strongly from another direction with Nunez in "Where Mathematics Comes From/the

Re: [FRIAM] sometimes an onion is just an onion...

It is nice to see another person admit to their premature registration! Thanks. I brought up an onion as an example of a thing that, when analyzed with levels produces a different result than when analyzed with layers. You have to admit that slicing an onion produces different results than