Re: [Geeqie-devel] Build for Geeqie

[Klaus Ethgen]

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Hi Russel,

Am Mi den 16. Nov 2016 um 11:40 schrieb Russel Winder:
> Geeqie currently has an Autotools build. A lot of the GTK world seems
> to be switching to Meson, or at least trying it out. JetBrains CLion
> only accepts CMake builds for projects (at least currently). Is the
> Geeqie team committed to using Autotools, or if an alternate build were
> available might it be accepted?

Well, let me tell it that way, the build tool is not set in stone.
But...

I see no need currently to even think about a new build tool.
Autoconf/automake serves what it is used for and it does it good. It
would take many work to change to other one.

- From the fact that the man power is very limited, this is a big NO.

On the other hand, I never heard of meson. Nor do I know (without
duckduckgoing) what "JetBrais CLion" is. IF there would be a need for
other build tool, I would more vote for something widely used (ok, cmake
is not that seldom). In the end, the chances would be pretty high that I
would end with automake/autoconf again when sorting the pro and cons.

So, for a new project, that would be something to think about. For a
existing project, there has to be a pretty good reason to switch the
build environment to something other with new bugs and new
inadequateness.

Am Do den 17. Nov 2016 um  1:57 schrieb Greg Troxel:
> Ian Zimmerman  writes:
> > But in the context of geeqie, I'd say don't fix it as long as it's not
> > broken.  If it breaks, we can return to this discussion.
> 
> That's a very good point.   geeqie seems to need more people to hack on
> the code, and the build system really isn't a problem at all.

No more to say. That is the most valid point here.

Regards
   Klaus
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Klaus Ethgen   http://www.ethgen.ch/
pub  4096R/4E20AF1C 2011-05-16Klaus Ethgen 
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Re: [Geeqie-devel] Build for Geeqie

[Greg Troxel]

Ian Zimmerman  writes:

> But in the context of geeqie, I'd say don't fix it as long as it's not
> broken.  If it breaks, we can return to this discussion.

That's a very good point.   geeqie seems to need more people to hack on
the code, and the build system really isn't a problem at all.


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Re: [Geeqie-devel] Build for Geeqie

[Ian Zimmerman]

On 2016-11-16 14:58, Roger wrote:

> I have used AutoTools for my or others' projects as well in the past,
> and find AutoTools quite stable, albeit sometimes cryptic to configure
> at times.

It's time for me to chime in even though I fear this is heading straight
for the bike shed ;-)

I have found autotools useful for handling situations that go beyond the
normal self hosted build, especially when cross compiling for embedded
systems.  But, I must say they're the opposite of "stable" as far as I'm
concerned.  Upgrade one piece and the whole thing breaks down horribly.
And constant churn means one must upgrade.  Gettext and the related
tools seem to be the worst.

I've never heard of mezon; if looking for a buildtool in python, why not
scons?  I've used scons and I liked it the best of any build tools.

But in the context of geeqie, I'd say don't fix it as long as it's not
broken.  If it breaks, we can return to this discussion.

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Re: [Geeqie-devel] Build for Geeqie

[Roger]

Using "fgrep /usr/portage/* -r -e meson" on my Gentoo system, only results in 
media-plugins/gst-transcoder and media-video/pitivi packages using or 
optionally using the meson build system.

I think the Meson Wikipedia might be indicating GNOME, GTK+, GLib and GStreamer 
might be optionally providing meson support within each package's source code 
along side AutoTools or CMake.  So far, everything here on Gentoo seems to be 
either AutoTools and CMake, or other build system I cannot recall.

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Re: [Geeqie-devel] Build for Geeqie

[Roger]

I have used AutoTools for my or others' projects as well in the past, and find 
AutoTools quite stable, albeit sometimes cryptic to configure at times.

I've tried educating myself with CMake, but found only low-level documentation 
packaged with or available via CMake's website.  All CMake's other third party 
documentation costs, or are supposedly inadequate.  Unfortunately or 
fortunately, CMake is still unusable at my end of the user spectrum.  As to 
Python being popular due to multi-platform use (and slow when compared to 
C/C++/Bash Scripting); CMake is similar, providing cross-platform use.

CMake is basically a wrapper around Make, so I do not expect to see the same 
inadequacies I see with Python, except for maybe adhering to standards.  Python 
constantly has been known to break standards in the past.  I do not know what 
standards CMake follows, nor if they've broken any with version releases.

When I code, I tend to go with what tools others' are commonly using, which 
tends to be tools that are most stable and lowest consuming in resources.

If some source code breaks within AutoTools, I can fix it.  CMake, I just 
forget about it here. Meson, never heard of it either.

Ah, Meson Wikipedia; "Being written in Python Meson runs natively on Linux 
kernel-based operating systems, on macOS, on Microsoft Windows and on other 
operating systems."  Maybe they've finally found something Python is useful at? 
 
Or maybe now my builds here are just going to get extremely more slower than 
using AutoTools?  (eg. Slower meaning more CPU usage, and more waste of 
electricity.)

-- 
Roger
http://rogerx.freeshell.org/

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Re: [Geeqie-devel] Build for Geeqie

[Greg Troxel]

Russel Winder  writes:

> Geeqie currently has an Autotools build. A lot of the GTK world seems
> to be switching to Meson, or at least trying it out. JetBrains CLion
> only accepts CMake builds for projects (at least currently). Is the
> Geeqie team committed to using Autotools, or if an alternate build were
> available might it be accepted?

(speaking for myself of course)

I have found autotools to be quite stable and sane over the years, if a
bit hard to set up for the project.  The newer tools seem to claim to be
better and then people struggle to get all the functionality of
autotools (such as cross building).  So I am very skeptical of changing
to a flavor-of-the-month build tool.

I have never heard of Meson before.  Certainly I may not be paying
enough attention, but it's hard to believe it is mainstream yet.

While CMake is now reasonably common, the idea that some kind of
packaging system will only build packages that use Cmake is very odd.
Certainly large amounts of software does not use CMake, and it is not
reasonable to call something broken because it doesn't.

Before adopting a new build system, I'd like to see written requirements
for the build system, specifically including portability and cross
building, and to see an analysis of how there will be no regressions.


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