On Jun 6, 2011, at 4:20 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote:
Hi,
Jim Jagielski wrote on 2011-06-06 22.13:
Good to see the list... Not knowing things for sure, but I
would guess that Oracle had issues with #3, which gave away
(what I would expect to be) huge chunks of h/w infrastructure,
esp to
Hello Jim,
Le Tue, 7 Jun 2011 07:50:42 -0400,
Jim Jagielski j...@jagunet.com a écrit :
On Jun 6, 2011, at 4:20 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote:
Hi,
Jim Jagielski wrote on 2011-06-06 22.13:
Good to see the list... Not knowing things for sure, but I
would guess that Oracle had issues
Florian,
Yes, I see the licensing topic and that there are different views on that.
However, I don't know if that requires to set-up all community efforts a
second time. Simon posted one possible creative solution. Setting up a
parallel project IMHO is wrong.
-Can you help me to understand this
Hi,
Kevin Lau wrote on 2011-06-06 15.35:
-Can you help me to understand this Simon posted one possible creative
solution?
It seems the discussion is making progress. I like to think this is
appropriate to be seen in Initial source files (was: OpenOffice: were are
we now?) thread than here.
Hi Jim, all,
2011/6/4 Jim Jagielski j...@jagunet.com:
On Jun 4, 2011, at 10:28 AM, Greg Stein wrote:
Personally, I think Oracle's choice had more to do with IBM's
recommendation, than taxes.
I've been told that Oracle and TDF *were* in discussions but
that the demands by TDF were
On Jun 6, 2011, at 3:55 PM, Volker Merschmann wrote:
Hi Jim, all,
2011/6/4 Jim Jagielski j...@jagunet.com:
On Jun 4, 2011, at 10:28 AM, Greg Stein wrote:
Personally, I think Oracle's choice had more to do with IBM's
recommendation, than taxes.
I've been told that Oracle and TDF
On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 9:08 PM, Jim Jagielski j...@jagunet.com wrote:
On Jun 6, 2011, at 3:55 PM, Volker Merschmann wrote:
Hi Jim, all,
2011/6/4 Jim Jagielski j...@jagunet.com:
On Jun 4, 2011, at 10:28 AM, Greg Stein wrote:
Personally, I think Oracle's choice had more to do
Volker Merschmann wrote:
I've been told that Oracle and TDF *were* in discussions but
that the demands by TDF were sufficiently unpalatable to Oracle
as to prevent any sort of agreement... IBM may have strongly
suggested the ASF as a backup, but we were the runner-up in
a sense. Taxes
On Jun 6, 2011, at 4:11 PM, Simon Phipps wrote:
On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 9:08 PM, Jim Jagielski j...@jagunet.com wrote:
On Jun 6, 2011, at 3:55 PM, Volker Merschmann wrote:
Hi Jim, all,
2011/6/4 Jim Jagielski j...@jagunet.com:
On Jun 4, 2011, at 10:28 AM, Greg Stein wrote:
On Jun 6, 2011, at 4:12 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Volker Merschmann wrote:
I've been told that Oracle and TDF *were* in discussions but
that the demands by TDF were sufficiently unpalatable to Oracle
as to prevent any sort of agreement... IBM may have strongly
suggested the ASF as a
Hi Jim,
Jim Jagielski wrote on 2011-06-06 22.20:
I replied on the TDF ML about #3 which, from my reading (and
from what I have been told by entities both within and outside
of Oracle) requested the infrastructure which was later
clarified to mean servers, various hardware, access to
private
On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 3:38 PM, Florian Effenberger
flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote:
Hi,
Greg Stein wrote on 2011-06-04 16.28:
snip
Personally, I think Oracle's choice had more to do with IBM's
recommendation, than taxes.
+1
I tend to agree.
IMO it's all about governance.
Hi,
Robert Burrell Donkin wrote on 2011-06-05 16.41:
Non-profit foundations are constrained to act in certain ways. For
example, it is hard for either the Apache or the Free Software
Foundations to close source donated code.
that's the same for a German-based foundation, and exactly the same
On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 13:54, Florian Effenberger
flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote:
...
That point has been repeaded over and over again, but basically you are
saying everyone Do not set up your own foundation at all, we alreadyh have
enough.
I don't know that Robert B-D said that, or
On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 14:19, Florian Effenberger
flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote:
Hi,
Greg Stein wrote on 2011-06-05 20.03:
That point has been repeaded over and over again, but basically you are
saying everyone Do not set up your own foundation at all, we alreadyh
have
enough.
I
On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 7:03 PM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 13:54, Florian Effenberger
flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote:
...
That point has been repeaded over and over again, but basically you are
saying everyone Do not set up your own foundation at all, we
On Jun 5, 2011, at 4:22 PM, Robert Burrell Donkin wrote:
I had thought you were further away...
That's the impression I had from an early post here as well...
Please see:
http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/msg01027.html
Hi,
Jim Jagielski wrote on 2011-06-05 22.26:
That's the impression I had from an early post here as well...
Please see:
http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/steering-discuss/msg01027.html
if you want to get a good overview on the progress, here are a few
(though
Hi Robert,
I'm still reading a few messages and trying to reply to them, but wanted
to join in here:
Robert Burrell Donkin wrote on 2011-06-04 09.14:
The TDF is in no position to accept a major donation of either
copyright or code today. Apache is.
Why? Can you elaborate?
Florian
--
On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 11:13 AM, Florian Effenberger
flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote:
Hi Robert,
Hi Florian
(Copying in Charles since he asked a similar question off list)
I'm still reading a few messages and trying to reply to them, but wanted to
join in here:
Just like the rest of us
Hello Robert,
2011/6/4 Robert Burrell Donkin robertburrelldon...@gmail.com
On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 11:13 AM, Florian Effenberger
flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote:
Hi Robert,
Hi Florian
(Copying in Charles since he asked a similar question off list)
Did I send you a reply off-list?
Hi,
On 04/06/2011 16:03, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
Hello Robert,
2011/6/4 Robert Burrell Donkinrobertburrelldon...@gmail.com
[...]
The TDF is at the start of a journey that the ASF started a decade ago
and is yet to reach the end. The TDF may wish to consider whether an
alternative path
On Saturday, June 4, 2011, Florian Effenberger
flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote:
Hi Robert,
I'm still reading a few messages and trying to reply to them, but wanted to
join in here:
Robert Burrell Donkin wrote on 2011-06-04 09.14:
The TDF is in no position to accept a major donation of
Hi,
Julien Vermillard wrote on 2011-06-04 16.05:
In short : taxes (US taxes) saving donnating stuff to non profit org.
where is this different from a German entity where donations are
tax-deductible, like with the current association (which is even
accredited as especially meritorious by
On Jun 4, 2011 10:08 AM, Florian Effenberger
flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote:
Hi,
Julien Vermillard wrote on 2011-06-04 16.05:
In short : taxes (US taxes) saving donnating stuff to non profit org.
where is this different from a German entity where donations are
tax-deductible, like
Hi,
Greg Stein wrote on 2011-06-04 16.28:
Oracle America is the full name of the entity that granted us the code.
They may not have been able to get the same tax deduction donating to a
foreign entity. The tax deduction would be*considerable* given the value of
the OOo brand.
ah, sorry, then
On Jun 4, 2011, at 10:28 AM, Greg Stein wrote:
Personally, I think Oracle's choice had more to do with IBM's
recommendation, than taxes.
I've been told that Oracle and TDF *were* in discussions but
that the demands by TDF were sufficiently unpalatable to Oracle
as to prevent any sort of
On Jun 4, 2011, at 9:03 AM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
We have been developing our governance and structure for 8 months. People
have put their trust and their faith in us. Why would you want us to scrap
that off in favor of something else and have people follow a governance they
don't even
Hello Jim,
2011/6/4 Jim Jagielski j...@jagunet.com
On Jun 4, 2011, at 9:03 AM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
We have been developing our governance and structure for 8 months. People
have put their trust and their faith in us. Why would you want us to
scrap
that off in favor of something
On Jun 4, 2011, at 2:38 PM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
I would be very wary of this sort of assertion, regardless of the person who
made it, Jim. TDF does have quite an interesting story on this but we
naively felt that discussions that were clearly off the record were to be
kept, well, off
First off, as we've seen with other projects that have gone through
Incubation, we have not chosen to avoid areas where others have projects.
Simply put, if there is interest from a community, we seek to be supportive.
If this proposal goes through, and the ASF chooses to incubate OO.o,
everyone
Hello,
as we have a public holiday in Germany, I will reply to the other
messages tomorrow. However, I cannot leave this sentence uncommented:
Noel J. Bergman wrote on 2011-06-02 20.50:
If there is a community split, that
decision will rest solely on those who choose not to join our
Hi Florian
So, if TDF does not join the Apache OOo project, a community split is our
(=TDF) fault. However, if the people proposing the Apache incubator project
do not join TDF, a community split is not their fault.
Noel wants surely express OOo is open to everybody and there is no
intention
On Jun 2, 2011, at 3:01 PM, Florian Effenberger wrote:
Noel J. Bergman wrote on 2011-06-02 20.50:
If there is a community split, that
decision will rest solely on those who choose not to join our all-inclusive
environment.
So, if TDF does not join the Apache OOo project, a community split
Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote on 06/02/2011
03:01:26 PM:
Hello,
as we have a public holiday in Germany, I will reply to the other
messages tomorrow. However, I cannot leave this sentence uncommented:
Noel J. Bergman wrote on 2011-06-02 20.50:
If there is a
On Jun 2, 2011, at 3:34 PM, robert_w...@us.ibm.com wrote:
Sense 2 is a but more subjective, since each person might have their own
vision of what the ideal community would look like.
Let's look at it this way: Pretend that when things starting going
south in OOo, but before TDF was formed,
Jim,
2011/6/2 Jim Jagielski j...@jagunet.com
On Jun 2, 2011, at 3:34 PM, robert_w...@us.ibm.com wrote:
Sense 2 is a but more subjective, since each person might have their own
vision of what the ideal community would look like.
Let's look at it this way: Pretend that when things
On Jun 2, 2011, at 4:03 PM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote:
That's a tough one, Jim :-)
It's what I do :)
my personal feeling (I'm not speaking
on behalf of TDF on this one) is that we didn't have enough time/opportunity
to understand each other more. And now, we are looking at a hairball that
Florian Effenberger wrote:
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
If there is a community split, that decision will rest solely on those
who choose not to join our all-inclusive environment.
So, if TDF does not join the Apache OOo project, a community split is
our (=TDF) fault. However, if the people
Hello Noel,
2011/6/2 Noel J. Bergman n...@devtech.com
Florian Effenberger wrote:
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
If there is a community split, that decision will rest solely on those
who choose not to join our all-inclusive environment.
So, if TDF does not join the Apache OOo project, a
Charles H. Schulz wrote:
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Oracle's move with OO.o will fully open the project to all participants
and use-cases, including those who might previously have had to enter
into alternate, paid, licensing arrangements with the copyright holder.
And it comes with
On 2 June 2011 21:22, Noel J. Bergman n...@devtech.com wrote:
Florian Effenberger wrote:
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
If there is a community split, that decision will rest solely on those
who choose not to join our all-inclusive environment.
So, if TDF does not join the Apache OOo
This whole topic seems to suffer from malformed or uninformative subject lines.
I submit that it's not the purview of the ASF or the Incubator PMC to
achieve world peace, or whirled peas, or a single project for open
source document software.
Oracle has granted code to the ASF. A group of people
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 5:42 PM, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.comwrote:
This whole topic seems to suffer from malformed or uninformative subject
lines.
I submit that it's not the purview of the ASF or the Incubator PMC to
achieve world peace, or whirled peas, or a single project for
On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 5:50 PM, Ian Lynch ianrly...@gmail.com wrote:
On 2 June 2011 22:42, Benson Margulies bimargul...@gmail.com wrote:
The existing of TDF and the preference of its contributors for
copyleft is data, but for me it's not data that could persuade me to
vote -1 in this PMC. I
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