Re: [gentoo-user] Catch all mailbox
On Wednesday 09 September 2009 22:02:25 Xavier Parizet wrote: Stroller a écrit : On 9 Sep 2009, at 19:06, Xavier Parizet wrote: ... Does anyone know how I can force postfix to add the domain to the search query? Is mydomain parameter set in /etc/postfix/main.cf ? Yes, I believe this is necessary for postfix to actually accept emails? I don't think so. I believe - but I could be mistaken - that the domain must be in mydestination. I agree with you. The postfix configurations files should help us more... In my case (and by default?) that contains $mydomain Stroller. I have attached the output of postconf -n and the main.cf and master.cf files. Don't have a ldap.cf file as it's configured inside the main.cf file. The aliases are parsed correctly, but I noticed, while researching this, that it doesn't seem to correctly match the users, but relies on cyrus to tell it if the mailbox exists or not. And before I forget, I use fetchmail to collect the email from my ISP and configured fetchmail to hand it over to postfix. As for the versions and USE-flags I use: -- data ~ # eix -e cyrus-imapd [U] net-mail/cyrus-imapd Available versions: 2.3.14 2.3.14-r3 {idled kerberos kolab nntp pam replication sieve snmp ssl tcpd} Installed versions: 2.3.14(01:34:20 07/07/09)(kerberos pam sieve ssl tcpd -idled -nntp -replication -snmp) Homepage:http://asg.web.cmu.edu/cyrus/imapd/ Description: The Cyrus IMAP Server. data ~ # eix -e postfix [U] mail-mta/postfix Available versions: 2.5.5 2.5.7 ~2.5.9 ~2.6.5 {cdb dovecot-sasl hardened ipv6 ldap mailwrapper mbox mysql nis pam postgres sasl selinux ssl vda} Installed versions: 2.5.5(01:32:12 07/07/09)(ldap mailwrapper sasl ssl - cdb -dovecot-sasl -hardened -ipv6 -mbox -mysql -nis -pam -postgres -selinux - vda) Homepage:http://www.postfix.org/ Description: A fast and secure drop-in replacement for sendmail. data ~ # eix -e openldap [I] net-nds/openldap Available versions: 2.3.41 ~2.3.41-r1 2.3.43 ~2.3.43-r1 ~2.4.16 ~2.4.17 ~2.4.17-r1 {berkdb crypt cxx debug experimental gdbm gnutls icu iodbc ipv6 kerberos minimal odbc overlays perl samba sasl selinux slp smbkrb5passwd ssl syslog tcpd} Installed versions: 2.3.43(01:25:35 07/07/09)(berkdb crypt kerberos samba sasl ssl tcpd -debug -gdbm -ipv6 -minimal -odbc -overlays -perl -selinux -slp -smbkrb5passwd) Homepage:http://www.OpenLDAP.org/ Description: LDAP suite of application and development tools -- Thanks, Joost set postmaster shared+admin.Hoshidomains.data.mail.Fetchmail set no bouncemail set no spambounce set properties # set daemon 300 poll pop.isp.net localdomains example.com envelope X-Envelope-To user 'catch' with password 'secret' to * here # # Postfix master process configuration file. For details on the format # of the file, see the master(5) manual page (command: man 5 master). # # Do not forget to execute postfix reload after editing this file. # # == # service type private unpriv chroot wakeup maxproc command + args # (yes) (yes) (yes) (never) (100) # == smtp inet n - n - - smtpd #submission inet n - n - - smtpd # -o smtpd_tls_security_level=encrypt # -o smtpd_sasl_auth_enable=yes # -o smtpd_client_restrictions=permit_sasl_authenticated,reject # -o milter_macro_daemon_name=ORIGINATING smtps inet n - n - - smtpd -o smtpd_sasl_auth_enable=yes -o smtpd_reject_unlisted_sender=yes -o smtpd_recipient_restrictions=permit_sasl_authenticated,reject -o broken_sasl_auth_clients=yes # -o smtpd_tls_wrappermode=yes # -o smtpd_sasl_auth_enable=yes # -o smtpd_client_restrictions=permit_sasl_authenticated,reject # -o milter_macro_daemon_name=ORIGINATING #628 inet n - n - - qmqpd pickupfifo n - n 60 1 pickup cleanup unix n - n - 0 cleanup qmgr fifo n - n 300 1 qmgr #qmgr fifo n - n 300 1 oqmgr tlsmgrunix - - n 1000? 1 tlsmgr rewrite unix - - n - - trivial-rewrite bounceunix - - n - 0 bounce defer unix - - n - 0 bounce trace unix - - n - 0 bounce verifyunix - - n - 1 verify flush unix n - n 1000? 0 flush proxymap unix - - n - - proxymap proxywrite unix - - n - 1 proxymap smtp unix - - n -
Re: [gentoo-user] Gentoo LVS
Nick Khamis a écrit : Hey Xavier, I do appologize for the two messages, it will not happen again. When issuing a find /lib/modules/`uname -r` -name ip_vs*.ko I see only snip Ok so, under Networking support - Networking options - Network packet filtering support (Netfilter), you enabled M IP virtual server support, then, under M IP virtual server support, you said earlier that you enabled : [*] TCP load balancing support [*] UDP load balancing support but, you're looking for ip_vs_* modules, so it seems you did not enabled theses items : *** IPVS scheduler *** M round-robin scheduling (which is ip_vs_rr.ko) M weighted round-robin scheduling (which is ip_vs_wrr.ko) M least-connection scheduling (which is ip_vs_lc.ko) M weighted least-connection scheduling (which is ip_vs_wlc.ko) M locality-based least-connection scheduling (which is ip_vs_lblc.ko) M locality-based least-connection with replication scheduling (which is ip_vs_lblcr.ko) M destination hashing scheduling (which is ip_vs_dh.ko) M source hashing scheduling (which is ip_vs_sh.ko) M shortest expected delay scheduling (which is ip_vs_sed.ko) M never queue scheduling (which is ip_vs_nq.ko) *** IPVS application helper *** M FTP protocol helper (which is ip_vs_ftp.ko) did you ? And, yes, next time you are looking for something in the kernel config, please do a search using menuconfig (simply issue make menuconfig in the kernel tree, and when the menu shows up, then use the '/' key, and enter the name of the CONFIG_ item you're looking for) HTH. Thanks in Advanced, Ninus -- Xavier Parizet YaGB : http://gentooist.com GPG :C7DC B10E FC21 63BE B453 D239 F6E6 DF65 1569 91BF signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
RE: [gentoo-user] Unpacking a .exe file
Did you try running the .exe with wine?
[gentoo-user] ati-drivers and 2.6.31 ?
Hi, is there a patch for the ati-driver together with the new 2.6.31 kernel? Currently I get (ati-drivers-9.8) Kernels newer then 2.6.30 are not supported by this driver Thanks for an info, Helmut. -- Helmut Jarausch Lehrstuhl fuer Numerische Mathematik RWTH - Aachen University D 52056 Aachen, Germany
Re: [gentoo-user] How often -uD world?
On Donnerstag 10 September 2009, Maxim Wexler wrote: HI group, My netbook has only (4+8)G of sketchy SSD + SDHC RAM for everything and I am determined not to emerge anything I don't really need. But now that I'm mobile I have the capability of doing a -uD world whenever it's required without having to take days of dialup time. Question is, when's that? I assume with fewer packages, updating is not as urgent as on a big desktop with lots of HD space and lots of apps. Is there some sort of rule-of-thumb when it comes to timing or spacing their updates that members use to keep gentoo happy? Maxim I do 'it' every morning. I am still tired, eix-sync, when I come back with my tea, I see the updates, emerge -auvD world, ready when the sugar is in the tea. Checking the list. Drinking some of the tea and contemplating the updates, then 'y'. when I am ready to rock, the updates are done. ...
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE4: Constant crashes in conjunction with Konsole
On Thursday 10 September 2009 06:00:08 Dudu Loschi wrote: I've had this issue today with a new KDE 4.3.1 installation (actually not so new, it was running fine for 4 days). I decided to track down what was probably causing this issue since it apparently to came from nowhere. Well, after testing some configurations I realized that changing fonts size (specially menu's font) could lead to this problem, but reverting the size didn't solved. Them I started changing xorg.conf and found an workaround: disable BackingStore. I've tested several times and the crash never happened with BackingStore off. And I actually turned it on yesterday, so at least on my system that's the cause of the crash. So if you are experiencing this and have BackingStore on, disable it. If you don't have BackingStore enable try changing some other configuration in xorg.conf, it may help. I agree with Dudu, nvidia-drivers is the likely culprit. There were huge problems in the early days of KDE-4, it's very possible that bugs are still lurking. A useful site to trawl looking for similar problems and solutions: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=14 It's a semi-official announce site for nVidia plus general Forum. The driver devs read the list and respond to major issues. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] How often -uD world?
On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 09:58:37 +0200, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: I do 'it' every morning. I am still tired, eix-sync, when I come back with my tea, I see the updates, emerge -auvD world, ready when the sugar is in the tea. Checking the list. Drinking some of the tea and contemplating the updates, then 'y'. when I am ready to rock, the updates are done. Don't you have cron installed on your box? ;-) I have a cron task run emerge --sync then mail me the output from emerge -upvD --reinstall changed-use @world then it runs emerge -ufD --reinstall changed-use @world to download the distfiles. I still can't do anything useful before a cup of tea though... With a slower machine, I'd say frequent updates are more important, because of the time it would take to work through two weeks' worth of updates in i one go. -- Neil Bothwick If you can't be kind, be vague. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] How often -uD world?
On Thursday 10 September 2009 09:58:37 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Donnerstag 10 September 2009, Maxim Wexler wrote: HI group, My netbook has only (4+8)G of sketchy SSD + SDHC RAM for everything and I am determined not to emerge anything I don't really need. But now that I'm mobile I have the capability of doing a -uD world whenever it's required without having to take days of dialup time. Question is, when's that? I assume with fewer packages, updating is not as urgent as on a big desktop with lots of HD space and lots of apps. Is there some sort of rule-of-thumb when it comes to timing or spacing their updates that members use to keep gentoo happy? Maxim I do 'it' every morning. I am still tired, eix-sync, when I come back with my tea, I see the updates, emerge -auvD world, ready when the sugar is in the tea. Checking the list. Drinking some of the tea and contemplating the updates, then 'y'. when I am ready to rock, the updates are done. Same here, except in my case: s/tea/triple espresso/g But I doubt the wisdom of updating an SSD netbook on the machine itself: 1. Wear on the SSD itself with all those compiles 2. It's sloow Maybe wait for Neil Bothwick to show up and ask him for the gory details - he seems to have gotten it down pat on his Eee. I know for myself, I made the conscious decision for Gentoo on my desktop and notebook but the Aspire One runs Ubuntu Remix for this very reason. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE4: Constant crashes in conjunction with Konsole
Am Donnerstag, 10. September 2009 schrieb Dudu Loschi: Hi guys, until now I've been quite a KDE4 hater, but I'm willing to give it a try from time to time. So I installed 4.3 parallel to my beloved 3.5.10 and was quite pleased with it. However, I have repeating crashes of my entire X. Mostly it happens when I open Konsole, the next often occasion is opening a menu (main menu, context menu, you name it), but also only after a Konsole windows was opened. All I see is a quick error message about glibc, then X restarts and I'm back at kdm. I use a laptop with a Geforce 7600 GPU, running on nvidia-drivers-180.60. I've had this issue today with a new KDE 4.3.1 installation (actually not so new, it was running fine for 4 days). I decided to track down what was probably causing this issue since it apparently to came from nowhere. Well, after testing some configurations I realized that changing fonts size (specially menu's font) could lead to this problem, but reverting the size didn't solved. Them I started changing xorg.conf and found an workaround: disable BackingStore. I've tested several times and the crash never happened with BackingStore off. A great many thanks to you, I've just tried it and it seems to have the effect you described. I'll dig into it further. But now of course I'm trapped between two worlds - stay with my sceen efficient and faster 3.5, or begin a liason with 4.3 for the benefits it provides, but also with its latent lagginess. *ponder ponder* -- Gruß | Greetings | Qapla' Kids in the back seat cause accidents. Accidents in the backseat cause kids. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Virtualization
On Wednesday 09 September 2009 14:35:41 Peter Humphrey wrote: On Tuesday 08 September 2009 18:56:50 walt wrote: Are you seeing something very different at your end? Yes. I've created just one VM (this is on my KDE-4 test system). On the Details tab I get a list of configuration variables with their values. Under CD/DVD ROM I have Mount CD/DVD drive selected, and the Host CD/DVD drive drop-down box contains just the one entry: /dev/fd0. That's why I said I can't install a guest OS - the VM can't read the installation CD. Have I to make an ISO from the CD and mount that? Seems like a bit of a roundabout route if so. In addition to the screenshot, using Linux it's very easy to create an ISO-file from an existing CD/DVD. I always do it with: # cp /dev/cdrom path-to/bladiebla.iso (change paths / names as appropriate) No need to install additional software to do this and I have succesfully used this to create ISO images from MS Windows install media as well for use with both VirtualBox and VMWare. -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] How often -uD world?
On Donnerstag 10 September 2009, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 09:58:37 +0200, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: I do 'it' every morning. I am still tired, eix-sync, when I come back with my tea, I see the updates, emerge -auvD world, ready when the sugar is in the tea. Checking the list. Drinking some of the tea and contemplating the updates, then 'y'. when I am ready to rock, the updates are done. Don't you have cron installed on your box? ;-) I don't have the box running all the time ;) also being able to su - and type eix-sync is a first test if my brain has already woke up.
Re: [gentoo-user] How often -uD world?
Alan McKinnon wrote: On Thursday 10 September 2009 09:58:37 Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: On Donnerstag 10 September 2009, Maxim Wexler wrote: HI group, My netbook has only (4+8)G of sketchy SSD + SDHC RAM for everything and I am determined not to emerge anything I don't really need. But now that I'm mobile I have the capability of doing a -uD world whenever it's required without having to take days of dialup time. Question is, when's that? I assume with fewer packages, updating is not as urgent as on a big desktop with lots of HD space and lots of apps. Is there some sort of rule-of-thumb when it comes to timing or spacing their updates that members use to keep gentoo happy? Maxim I do 'it' every morning. I am still tired, eix-sync, when I come back with my tea, I see the updates, emerge -auvD world, ready when the sugar is in the tea. Checking the list. Drinking some of the tea and contemplating the updates, then 'y'. when I am ready to rock, the updates are done. Same here, except in my case: s/tea/triple espresso/g But I doubt the wisdom of updating an SSD netbook on the machine itself: 1. Wear on the SSD itself with all those compiles 2. It's sloow Maybe wait for Neil Bothwick to show up and ask him for the gory details - he seems to have gotten it down pat on his Eee. I know for myself, I made the conscious decision for Gentoo on my desktop and notebook but the Aspire One runs Ubuntu Remix for this very reason. Two notes: 1. Don't compile of of you SSD! You can use external storage, like a USB HDD or nfs share to build (put your portage_tmpdir and /usr/portage on) 2. Don't change a winning team! If your kernel run's smoothly with no weird glutches in drivers, leave it be. Only update if you want new features. Just my 2p's worth Greetz, Mark signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[gentoo-user] Crashed Emerge
Hi all, please help me. my computer is the hell since i wanted to update world (at ~amd64) today morning. i installed the packages listed below (= emerge.log). Now if I run emerge it returns: Traceback (most recent call last): File /usr/bin/emerge, line 40, in module retval = _emerge.emerge_main() File /usr/lib64/portage/pym/_emerge/__init__.py, line 15497, in emerge_main trees[myroot][vartree].dbapi._counter_hash() File /usr/lib64/portage/pym/portage/dbapi/vartree.py, line 137, in _counter_hash counter, = self.aux_get(cpv, aux_keys) File /usr/lib64/portage/pym/portage/dbapi/vartree.py, line 484, in aux_get pkg_data = self._aux_cache[packages].get(mycpv) File /usr/lib64/portage/pym/portage/dbapi/vartree.py, line 392, in _aux_cache self._aux_cache_init() File /usr/lib64/portage/pym/portage/dbapi/vartree.py, line 412, in _aux_cache_init aux_cache = mypickle.load() TypeError: 'NoneType' object does not support item assignment if i run revdep-rebuild it returns: Parse Error reading PROVIDE and USE in '/var/db/pkg/app-emulation/emul-linux-x86-compat-20081109' Exception: 'NoneType' object does not support item assignment FOR EVERY PACKAGE IN PORTAGE. An old emerge-info is at http://www.xbra.de/images/emerge-info.txt the above errors occur with python2.6. When i eselect python3.1, the error for emerge is: File /usr/bin/emerge, line 41 except PermissionDenied, e: ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax Is it a python (e.g. dev-python/setuptools) or a poppler issue? i really don't know what to do because nothing is working anymore! I would be very grateful if you could help. Thank you very much in advance for your help. Kind regards, der Max EMERGE.LOG: 1252576309: Started emerge on: Sep 10, 2009 09:51:49 1252576309: *** emerge sync 1252576309: === sync 1252576309: Starting rsync with rsync://140.211.166.165/gentoo-portage 1252576434: === Sync completed with rsync://140.211.166.165/gentoo-portage 1252576435: *** terminating. 1252576947: Started emerge on: Sep 10, 2009 10:02:27 1252576947: *** emerge --newuse --deep --ask --update --verbose world 1252576956: emerge (1 of 17) sys-apps/hdparm-9.27 to / 1252576961: === (1 of 17) Cleaning (sys-apps/hdparm-9.27::/usr/portage/sys-apps/hdparm/hdparm-9.27.ebuild) 1252576961: === (1 of 17) Compiling/Merging (sys-apps/hdparm-9.27::/usr/portage/sys-apps/hdparm/hdparm-9.27.ebuild) 1252576966: === (1 of 17) Merging (sys-apps/hdparm-9.27::/usr/portage/sys-apps/hdparm/hdparm-9.27.ebuild) 1252576967: AUTOCLEAN: sys-apps/hdparm:0 1252576967: === Unmerging... (sys-apps/hdparm-9.20) 1252576968: unmerge success: sys-apps/hdparm-9.20 1252576968: === (1 of 17) Post-Build Cleaning (sys-apps/hdparm-9.27::/usr/portage/sys-apps/hdparm/hdparm-9.27.ebuild) 1252576968: ::: completed emerge (1 of 17) sys-apps/hdparm-9.27 to / 1252576968: emerge (2 of 17) app-shells/bash-4.0_p33 to / 1252576969: === (2 of 17) Cleaning (app-shells/bash-4.0_p33::/usr/portage/app-shells/bash/bash-4.0_p33.ebuild) 1252576969: === (2 of 17) Compiling/Merging (app-shells/bash-4.0_p33::/usr/portage/app-shells/bash/bash-4.0_p33.ebuild) 1252577007: === (2 of 17) Merging (app-shells/bash-4.0_p33::/usr/portage/app-shells/bash/bash-4.0_p33.ebuild) 1252577008: AUTOCLEAN: app-shells/bash:0 1252577008: === Unmerging... (app-shells/bash-4.0_p28) 1252577008: unmerge success: app-shells/bash-4.0_p28 1252577009: === (2 of 17) Post-Build Cleaning (app-shells/bash-4.0_p33::/usr/portage/app-shells/bash/bash-4.0_p33.ebuild) 1252577009: ::: completed emerge (2 of 17) app-shells/bash-4.0_p33 to / 1252577009: emerge (3 of 17) media-libs/x264-0.0.20090908 to / 1252577010: === (3 of 17) Cleaning (media-libs/x264-0.0.20090908::/usr/portage/media-libs/x264/x264-0.0.20090908.ebuild) 1252577010: === (3 of 17) Compiling/Merging (media-libs/x264-0.0.20090908::/usr/portage/media-libs/x264/x264-0.0.20090908.ebuild) 1252577018: === (3 of 17) Merging (media-libs/x264-0.0.20090908::/usr/portage/media-libs/x264/x264-0.0.20090908.ebuild) 1252577019: AUTOCLEAN: media-libs/x264:0 1252577019: === Unmerging... (media-libs/x264-0.0.20090629) 1252577021: unmerge success: media-libs/x264-0.0.20090629 1252577022: === (3 of 17) Post-Build Cleaning (media-libs/x264-0.0.20090908::/usr/portage/media-libs/x264/x264-0.0.20090908.ebuild) 1252577022: ::: completed emerge (3 of 17) media-libs/x264-0.0.20090908 to / 1252577022: emerge (4 of 17) x11-libs/libdrm-2.4.13 to / 1252577022: === (4 of 17) Cleaning (x11-libs/libdrm-2.4.13::/usr/portage/x11-libs/libdrm/libdrm-2.4.13.ebuild) 1252577022: === (4 of 17) Compiling/Merging (x11-libs/libdrm-2.4.13::/usr/portage/x11-libs/libdrm/libdrm-2.4.13.ebuild) 1252577033: === (4 of 17) Merging (x11-libs/libdrm-2.4.13::/usr/portage/x11-libs/libdrm/libdrm-2.4.13.ebuild) 1252577034: AUTOCLEAN: x11-libs/libdrm:0 1252577034: === Unmerging... (x11-libs/libdrm-2.4.12) 1252577035: unmerge success:
Re: [gentoo-user] Unpacking a .exe file
2009/9/10 Adam Carter adam.car...@optus.com.au: Did you try running the .exe with wine? Thanks Adam, I don't have WINE on this old machine, or the space for it. Even if I did - how do I find the files (don't know what their names are). Is it a matter of running the .exe so that it installs and assuming that it does not fail then diff-ing the fs before and after, or ls -l -a -t to find the latest files which were modified? -- Regards, Mick
Re: [gentoo-user] autossh
On Wed, Sep 09, 2009 at 11:08:43PM +0530, Penguin Lover Kaushal Shriyan squawked: file `which autossh` /usr/bin/autossh: POSIX shell script text executable http://paste.ubuntu.com/268077/ I dont see any of my env variables being called in that bash shell script. Please suggest and guide Thanks for the explanation. Hum, do this for me, would ya? (1) what happens when you run AUTOSSH_POLL=100 /usr/lib/autossh/autossh . (2) first cp /usr/bin/autossh to your home directory, and edit it to replace the line exec /usr/lib/autossh/autossh $@ with env | grep AUTOSSH Then in your shell call ./autossh (just that, not options). What happens? --- If I remember correctly, shell environmental variables are supposed to be passed to child shells. So scripts are supposed to inherit those variables. So we are now trying to figure out whether it is the shell that is broken or it is the autossh binary that is broken. Best, W -- Q: What is the best way to determine the volume of a little red ball. Physicist: Measure the diameter, devide by two for radius and use the formula 4/3 * PI * radius ^ 3 Chemist: Take a beaker, fill it with water. Dunk the ball in it, and measure the amount of water displaced. Engineer: It's easy, just pull out the Little Red Ball book and look it up. Sortir en Pantoufles: up 1007 days, 8:05
Re: [gentoo-user] How often -uD world?
On Wed, Sep 09, 2009 at 07:52:40PM -0600, Penguin Lover Maxim Wexler squawked: My netbook has only (4+8)G of sketchy SSD + SDHC RAM for everything and I am determined not to emerge anything I don't really need. You are a brave, brave man. With 4+8G, how much non-system space do you have left after installing gentoo? If bandwidth is cheap, I suppose you can just remove all distfiles after installing. W -- Goddamnit! I missed! (On the unfortunate non-intersection of the X, Y and Z axis) Sortir en Pantoufles: up 1007 days, 8:31
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Virtualization
On Thursday 10 September 2009 09:45:46 J. Roeleveld wrote: In addition to the screenshot, using Linux it's very easy to create an ISO-file from an existing CD/DVD. I always do it with: # cp /dev/cdrom path-to/bladiebla.iso (change paths / names as appropriate) No need to install additional software to do this and I have succesfully used this to create ISO images from MS Windows install media as well for use with both VirtualBox and VMWare. This is indeed strange - to make an ISO of a CD-ROM and install from that. I'll try it and see what happens. Thanks to you and Walt. -- Rgds Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Virtualization
On Thursday 10 September 2009 02:31:20 walt wrote: I'm attaching a screen capture of the dialog window I see when mounting an ISO file on the vm's virtual CD player. If you are seeing something very different, then that's where we need to start debugging. Ah! Are you telling me I have to install the additions before /dev/hdc becomes visible? (That would also be one of my physical drives.) I had assumed they were for addition to an installed guest OS. -- Rgds Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] How often -uD world?
On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:30:04 +0200, Alan McKinnon wrote: But I doubt the wisdom of updating an SSD netbook on the machine itself: 1. Wear on the SSD itself with all those compiles I have $PORTAGE_TMPDIR on the SD card, which is cheap enough to replace if too many OOo compiles toast it. 2. It's sloow I was pleasantly surprised at how quickly some compiles completed. Not as fast as my desktop of course, but faster than was expecting, although 14 hours for OOo required a certain amount of patience. Maybe wait for Neil Bothwick to show up and ask him for the gory details - he seems to have gotten it down pat on his Eee. As mentioned yesterday, I now do all emerges in a chroot on my desktop to build binary packages, then emerge -k on the Eee, so Ooo only takes 90 minutes now. The only compiling I do on the Eee is kernel changes. -- Neil Bothwick PC DOS Error #01: Windows loading, come back tomorrow signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Virtualization
On Thursday 10 September 2009 12:04:52 Peter Humphrey wrote: On Thursday 10 September 2009 09:45:46 J. Roeleveld wrote: In addition to the screenshot, using Linux it's very easy to create an ISO-file from an existing CD/DVD. I always do it with: # cp /dev/cdrom path-to/bladiebla.iso (change paths / names as appropriate) No need to install additional software to do this and I have succesfully used this to create ISO images from MS Windows install media as well for use with both VirtualBox and VMWare. This is indeed strange - to make an ISO of a CD-ROM and install from that. I'll try it and see what happens. Thanks to you and Walt. This is an easy way to install software that, when unpacked, is larger then a DVD, but don't want to copy it to the local drive every time. I have a few ISO-images of around 14Gig with software on it. Just connect that to the virtual machine and install from there. :) -- Joost
Re: [gentoo-user] Crashed Emerge
Maximilian Bräutigam wrote: Hi all, please help me. my computer is the hell since i wanted to update world (at ~amd64) today morning python3 will not work, I would reinstall python-2.6 from a tinderbox; http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-720191-start-0.html http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-4669397.html#4669397 I masked python-3 cat /etc/portage/package.mask =dev-lang/python-3* eselect python list eselect python set number emerge python -- Powered by Gentoo GNU/Linux http://linuxcrazy.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: flags on a minimalist server
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 5:22 PM, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@arcor.de wrote: Ebuils that need xml support don't have a USE flag for it. Only those where it's optional. python has optional XML support, but gentoolkit needs that feature. -- Crístian Deives dos Santos Viana [aka CD1] Sent from Campinas, SP, Brazil
Re: [gentoo-user] Crashed Emerge
On Donnerstag 10 September 2009, Maximilian Bräutigam wrote: Hi all, please help me. my computer is the hell since i wanted to update world (at ~amd64) today morning. i installed the packages listed below (= emerge.log). Now if I run emerge it returns: Traceback (most recent call last): File /usr/bin/emerge, line 40, in module retval = _emerge.emerge_main() File /usr/lib64/portage/pym/_emerge/__init__.py, line 15497, in emerge_main trees[myroot][vartree].dbapi._counter_hash() File /usr/lib64/portage/pym/portage/dbapi/vartree.py, line 137, in _counter_hash counter, = self.aux_get(cpv, aux_keys) File /usr/lib64/portage/pym/portage/dbapi/vartree.py, line 484, in aux_get pkg_data = self._aux_cache[packages].get(mycpv) File /usr/lib64/portage/pym/portage/dbapi/vartree.py, line 392, in _aux_cache self._aux_cache_init() File /usr/lib64/portage/pym/portage/dbapi/vartree.py, line 412, in _aux_cache_init aux_cache = mypickle.load() TypeError: 'NoneType' object does not support item assignment if i run revdep-rebuild it returns: Parse Error reading PROVIDE and USE in '/var/db/pkg/app-emulation/emul-linux-x86-compat-20081109' Exception: 'NoneType' object does not support item assignment FOR EVERY PACKAGE IN PORTAGE. An old emerge-info is at http://www.xbra.de/images/emerge-info.txt the above errors occur with python2.6. When i eselect python3.1, the error for emerge is: File /usr/bin/emerge, line 41 except PermissionDenied, e: ^ SyntaxError: invalid syntax Is it a python (e.g. dev-python/setuptools) or a poppler issue? i really don't know what to do because nothing is working anymore! and what happens with python2.5? poppler is a pdf lib and has nothing to do with portage or python.
Re: [gentoo-user] Unpacking a .exe file
On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:17:28 +0100, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/9/10 Adam Carter adam.car...@optus.com.au: Did you try running the .exe with wine? Thanks Adam, I don't have WINE on this old machine, or the space for it. Even if I did - how do I find the files (don't know what their names are). Is it a matter of running the .exe so that it installs and assuming that it does not fail then diff-ing the fs before and after, or ls -l -a -t to find the latest files which were modified? Well, the installer itself needs to be decompressed to run. Most windows installers install the intermediate files in c:\windows\temp (which usually would be ~/.wine/drive_c/windows/temp. Some others create a temporal dir under c:\ (~/.wine/drive_c). It's a matter of firing up the installer and go looking around there with each step until you can find them. By the way, I've tried decompressing the file with 7z and it indeed extracts 6 files, however I have no idea what they contain. It must be the pieces that installshield chain together. I have no idea if it's possible to extract something from there or not. There's a big file called textually '[DATA]', which is the biggest one, so the stuff must be there. I guess that's the one containing the compressed files, the rest of the files must be the exe header and the install shield control into. However I haven't manager to decompress that '[DATA]' file using anything. -- Jesús Guerrero
[gentoo-user] Re: Gentoo Virtualization
On 09/10/2009 03:02 AM, Peter Humphrey wrote: On Thursday 10 September 2009 02:31:20 walt wrote: I'm attaching a screen capture of the dialog window I see when mounting an ISO file on the vm's virtual CD player. If you are seeing something very different, then that's where we need to start debugging. Ah! Are you telling me I have to install the additions before /dev/hdc becomes visible? (That would also be one of my physical drives.) I had assumed they were for addition to an installed guest OS. No, that's the iso I just happened to have attached to that vm -- it has no effect on the host. But my CD player does show up in the dialog box, so I have no idea why yours doesn't.
Re: [gentoo-user] Unpacking a .exe file
2009/9/10 Jesús Guerrero i92gu...@terra.es: On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:17:28 +0100, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/9/10 Adam Carter adam.car...@optus.com.au: Did you try running the .exe with wine? Thanks Adam, I don't have WINE on this old machine, or the space for it. Even if I did - how do I find the files (don't know what their names are). Is it a matter of running the .exe so that it installs and assuming that it does not fail then diff-ing the fs before and after, or ls -l -a -t to find the latest files which were modified? Well, the installer itself needs to be decompressed to run. Most windows installers install the intermediate files in c:\windows\temp (which usually would be ~/.wine/drive_c/windows/temp. Some others create a temporal dir under c:\ (~/.wine/drive_c). It's a matter of firing up the installer and go looking around there with each step until you can find them. By the way, I've tried decompressing the file with 7z and it indeed extracts 6 files, however I have no idea what they contain. Hmm ... p7zip does not seem to like it over here - is it different to 7z? $ p7zip -d wg511v2_3_2.exe /usr/bin/p7zip: wg511v2_3_2.exe: unknown suffix -- ignored It must be the pieces that installshield chain together. I have no idea if it's possible to extract something from there or not. There's a big file called textually '[DATA]', which is the biggest one, so the stuff must be there. I guess that's the one containing the compressed files, the rest of the files must be the exe header and the install shield control into. However I haven't manager to decompress that '[DATA]' file using anything. -- Jesús Guerrero -- Regards, Mick
Re: [gentoo-user] Unpacking a .exe file
On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 13:39:11 +0100, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/9/10 Jesús Guerrero i92gu...@terra.es: On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:17:28 +0100, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/9/10 Adam Carter adam.car...@optus.com.au: Did you try running the .exe with wine? Thanks Adam, I don't have WINE on this old machine, or the space for it. Even if I did - how do I find the files (don't know what their names are). Is it a matter of running the .exe so that it installs and assuming that it does not fail then diff-ing the fs before and after, or ls -l -a -t to find the latest files which were modified? Well, the installer itself needs to be decompressed to run. Most windows installers install the intermediate files in c:\windows\temp (which usually would be ~/.wine/drive_c/windows/temp. Some others create a temporal dir under c:\ (~/.wine/drive_c). It's a matter of firing up the installer and go looking around there with each step until you can find them. By the way, I've tried decompressing the file with 7z and it indeed extracts 6 files, however I have no idea what they contain. Hmm ... p7zip does not seem to like it over here - is it different to 7z? $ p7zip -d wg511v2_3_2.exe /usr/bin/p7zip: wg511v2_3_2.exe: unknown suffix -- ignored I've used the 7z binary that comes shipped with p7zip-4.65 in Gentoo. The command I used was $ 7z x wg511v2_3_2.exe 7-Zip 4.65 Copyright (c) 1999-2009 Igor Pavlov 2009-02-03 p7zip Version 4.65 (locale=es_ES.utf8,Utf16=on,HugeFiles=on,1 CPU) Processing archive: wg511v2_3_2.exe Extracting .text Extracting .rdata Extracting .data Extracting .rsrc Extracting CERTIFICATE Extracting [data-1] Everything is Ok Files: 6 Size: 18794632 Compressed: 18798728 I reviewed the ebuild, just in case, and it doesn't apply any strange patch so it must be a standard feature. I haven't much experience with p7zip itself, but it doesn't seem to be quite the same than 7z. 7z serves as a frontend for many compression algorithms. It can surely open most compressed formats around. -- Jesús Guerrero
[gentoo-user] Re: How often -uD world?
On 2009-09-10, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: But I doubt the wisdom of updating an SSD netbook on the machine itself: 1. Wear on the SSD itself with all those compiles 2. It's sloow One cringes at the thought of updating xulrunner or OOo on a netbook. Presumably one would use binary packages for packages like those. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! NANCY!! Why is at everything RED?! visi.com
[gentoo-user] Re: flags on a minimalist server
Crístian Viana cristiandeives at gmail.com writes: Ebuils that need xml support don't have a USE flag for it. Only those where it's optional. python has optional XML support, but gentoolkit needs that feature.-- OK I got the xml flag issue resolved, but what about the threads flag? From my original post: USE=-* -nls mmx hardened ncurses ssl crypt berkdb tcpd pam perl pcre \ python readline zlib bzip2 nptl nptlonly syslog so nptl and nptlonly flags are set. -* means most other flags are unset. To rebuild python, it want the xml flag set for gentoolkit (got it). But also it shows -threads flag as not set. dev-lang/python-2.6.2-r1 USE=berkdb ncurses readline ssl -build -doc -examples -gdbm* -ipv6* -sqlite -threads* -tk -ucs2 -wininst -xml* Is this a good idea or bad idea to leave the -threads flag unset in rebuilding python or any other package on this mostly iptables firewall? (even though nptl and nptlonly are set) Where can I read up on the flags in some detail? James
[gentoo-user] Thunderbird 2.0.0.23
Hi all, Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 is hang when I try to sent an email using IMAP protocol even though it works fine before. However, everything is OK when I start Thunderbird with command thunderbird -safe-mode from console. Any idea? Thanks a lot Hung
Re: [gentoo-user] Unpacking a .exe file
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 12:14 AM, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday 09 September 2009, Paul Hartman wrote: I am on Windows XP right now (at work), I have unpacked the contents and can email them to the OP or upload somewhere if you'd like. Let me know. Thanks Paul! How do you unpack the contents in WinXP? If you run the .exe it just installs it/them all over the fs, right? Well, the easy way is to run the installer, then while it is open (waiting for you to click Next like all windows installers do) browse to c:\Windows\Downloaded Installations\. The folder names will just be GUIDs so I will sort by date and fine the most recent one. Alternatively you can get InstallShield developer tools which can often unpack the files. Check out http://www.lifeasbob.com/2009/07/21/OpenAnInstallshieldCabFile.aspx for an example (no idea if it works in WINE though). In the case of your file, that folder contained 3 extracted files, the most interesting of which was this 10 meg file: NETGEAR WG511v2 wireless PC card.msi which is a Windows Installer file. From there I was able to open the MSI file with 7-Zip, and saw that the MSI contained a 4-megabyte CAB file. Again used 7-zip to extract and then open the CAB file and re-zip its contents to a standard ZIP file for you. So, in summary, the 4 megabytes of actual files were wrapped in a Windows Installer wrapped in an InstallShield which inflated the size from 4mb to 18mb. That's windows drivers for you. :)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: How often -uD world?
On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:37:40 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote: One cringes at the thought of updating xulrunner or OOo on a netbook. Presumably one would use binary packages for packages like those. Or just leave the emerge running overnight, it worked for me. -- Neil Bothwick 640K should be enough for anyone. -Bill Gates signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[gentoo-user] Re: How often -uD world?
On 2009-09-10, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:37:40 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote: One cringes at the thought of updating xulrunner or OOo on a netbook. Presumably one would use binary packages for packages like those. Or just leave the emerge running overnight, it worked for me. The reported 14 hours for OOo isn't as bad as I thought it might be. I used Gentoo for many years on a machine that took more than 24hrs to build OOo. You did learn to plan updates of the big packages. -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! Bo Derek ruined at my life! visi.com
Re: [gentoo-user] Thunderbird 2.0.0.23
Am Donnerstag, 10. September 2009 schrieb Hung Dang: Hi all, Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 is hang when I try to sent an email using IMAP protocol even though it works fine before. However, everything is OK when I start Thunderbird with command thunderbird -safe-mode from console. Any idea? Probably not a gentoo-related problem. Safe mode means all Addons are disabled. So the first thing I would try is to disable all Addons and then enable them again one by one, see what happens. -- Gruß | Greetings | Qapla' Keyboard not connected, press F1 to continue. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: How often -uD world?
On Thu, 2009-09-10 at 14:56 +, Grant Edwards wrote: The reported 14 hours for OOo isn't as bad as I thought it might be. I used Gentoo for many years on a machine that took more than 24hrs to build OOo. You did learn to plan updates of the big packages. Oh, I remember those days... and installing Gentoo from stage1 to a decent desktop took about 3 days. I miss those days :) -a
Re: [gentoo-user] Crashed Emerge
2009/9/10 Maximilian Bräutigam max-br...@gmx.de: Hi all, please help me. my computer is the hell since i wanted to update world (at ~amd64) today morning. i installed the packages listed below (= emerge.log). Last time I had some python problem (going from 2.5 to 2.6) I used eselect to change version, then immediately eselect to change back again and everything worked. Also did you try python-updater?
Re: [gentoo-user] ati-drivers and 2.6.31 ?
On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 09:51:01 +0200 (CEST) Helmut Jarausch jarau...@igpm.rwth-aachen.de wrote: Hi, is there a patch for the ati-driver together with the new 2.6.31 kernel? Currently I get (ati-drivers-9.8) Kernels newer then 2.6.30 are not supported by this driver Try ati-drivers-8.660. It's ati-drivers-9.10-alpha in disguise. Ubuntu got ATI to give them some working drivers for Karmic. Scarabeus then put them in the tree, but used the old versioning scheme to distinguish them from the normal releases. /Peter
Re: [gentoo-user] How often -uD world?
But I doubt the wisdom of updating an SSD netbook on the machine itself: The best solution i've found so far (where RAM wasn't an issue) was to use temerge and 1600M RAM dedicated to it. netbook may not have that much memory free. Sorry if this was completely useless. Rohit
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: flags on a minimalist server
hi James, Where can I read up on the flags in some detail? you can read it online at: http://www.gentoo.org/dyn/use-index.xml this page lists the global USE flags and the local USE flags. you can also read information about USE flags using the program equery (which, by the way, is in the gentoolkit package :P): $ equery u python it lists the USE flags of that package with a description, and if you have it enabled or not for that package. if you want to go a bit further, you can read the ebuild file ( http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/gentoo-x86/dev-lang/python/python-2.6.2-r1.ebuild?view=markup) and see what it does when the USE flag threads is enabled. the python ebuild only passes that information to the Python configure script (--with-threads), so you should read in Python documentation why threads support is so important (or not). Is this a good idea or bad idea to leave the -threads flag unset in rebuilding python or any other package on this mostly iptables firewall? according to the Local USE flags webpage: python | threads: Enable threading support (DON'T DISABLE THIS UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING) it's better to keep it enabled =) see you, On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 11:41 AM, James wirel...@tampabay.rr.com wrote: Crístian Viana cristiandeives at gmail.com writes: Ebuils that need xml support don't have a USE flag for it. Only those where it's optional. python has optional XML support, but gentoolkit needs that feature.-- OK I got the xml flag issue resolved, but what about the threads flag? From my original post: USE=-* -nls mmx hardened ncurses ssl crypt berkdb tcpd pam perl pcre \ python readline zlib bzip2 nptl nptlonly syslog so nptl and nptlonly flags are set. -* means most other flags are unset. To rebuild python, it want the xml flag set for gentoolkit (got it). But also it shows -threads flag as not set. dev-lang/python-2.6.2-r1 USE=berkdb ncurses readline ssl -build -doc -examples -gdbm* -ipv6* -sqlite -threads* -tk -ucs2 -wininst -xml* Is this a good idea or bad idea to leave the -threads flag unset in rebuilding python or any other package on this mostly iptables firewall? (even though nptl and nptlonly are set) Where can I read up on the flags in some detail? James -- Crístian Deives dos Santos Viana [aka CD1]
[gentoo-user] mount.cifs removal?
Hi. Portage wants to remove mount.cifs as follows: net-fs/mount-cifs (net-fs/mount-cifs is blocking net-fs/samba-client-3.3.7). What is going on here and how can I keep mount.cifs and keep samba up to date at the same time? Thanks. -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici cov...@ccs.covici.com
Re: [gentoo-user] KDE4: Constant crashes in conjunction with Konsole
2009/9/10 Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com: On Thursday 10 September 2009 06:00:08 Dudu Loschi wrote: I've had this issue today with a new KDE 4.3.1 installation (actually not so new, it was running fine for 4 days). I decided to track down what was probably causing this issue since it apparently to came from nowhere. Well, after testing some configurations I realized that changing fonts size (specially menu's font) could lead to this problem, but reverting the size didn't solved. Them I started changing xorg.conf and found an workaround: disable BackingStore. I've tested several times and the crash never happened with BackingStore off. And I actually turned it on yesterday, so at least on my system that's the cause of the crash. So if you are experiencing this and have BackingStore on, disable it. If you don't have BackingStore enable try changing some other configuration in xorg.conf, it may help. I agree with Dudu, nvidia-drivers is the likely culprit. There were huge problems in the early days of KDE-4, it's very possible that bugs are still lurking. A useful site to trawl looking for similar problems and solutions: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=14 It's a semi-official announce site for nVidia plus general Forum. The driver devs read the list and respond to major issues. -- alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com Thanks for the link Alan, it's very useful. Actually this bug has been reported at that forum: http://www.google.com/cse?cx=partner-pub-6344472472167039%3Ayq78am-jukzie=ISO-8859-1q=backingstoresa=Search+Site I was having a similar crash with gnome/metacity when I upgraded to gnome 2.26 but I never tried to track down the bug, I just switched to openbox, which didn't crash in gnome. But in KDE/Openbox the crash happens, but less frequently than with KWin 2009/9/10 Frank Steinmetzger war...@gmx.de: Am Donnerstag, 10. September 2009 schrieb Dudu Loschi: Hi guys, until now I've been quite a KDE4 hater, but I'm willing to give it a try from time to time. So I installed 4.3 parallel to my beloved 3.5.10 and was quite pleased with it. However, I have repeating crashes of my entire X. Mostly it happens when I open Konsole, the next often occasion is opening a menu (main menu, context menu, you name it), but also only after a Konsole windows was opened. All I see is a quick error message about glibc, then X restarts and I'm back at kdm. I use a laptop with a Geforce 7600 GPU, running on nvidia-drivers-180.60. I've had this issue today with a new KDE 4.3.1 installation (actually not so new, it was running fine for 4 days). I decided to track down what was probably causing this issue since it apparently to came from nowhere. Well, after testing some configurations I realized that changing fonts size (specially menu's font) could lead to this problem, but reverting the size didn't solved. Them I started changing xorg.conf and found an workaround: disable BackingStore. I've tested several times and the crash never happened with BackingStore off. A great many thanks to you, I've just tried it and it seems to have the effect you described. I'll dig into it further. But now of course I'm trapped between two worlds - stay with my sceen efficient and faster 3.5, or begin a liason with 4.3 for the benefits it provides, but also with its latent lagginess. *ponder ponder* -- Gruß | Greetings | Qapla' Kids in the back seat cause accidents. Accidents in the backseat cause kids. Great that it worked! One thing to notice is that BackingStore is implemented by de X server, not by the driver, So maybe this isn't a bug in nvidia-drivers IMHO you should use KDE4 as now it's pretty stable (without BackingStore, no issues at all here)
Re: [gentoo-user] mount.cifs removal?
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 1:25 PM, cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: Hi. Portage wants to remove mount.cifs as follows: net-fs/mount-cifs (net-fs/mount-cifs is blocking net-fs/samba-client-3.3.7). What is going on here and how can I keep mount.cifs and keep samba up to date at the same time? Starting with Samba 3.3 the ebuilds are split into samba-libs, samba-server and samba-client. I believe samba-client replaces the functionality of mount-cifs, so you should be able to unmerge mount-cifs and build samba with the client USE flag (which will pull in samba-client).
[gentoo-user] Re: flags on a minimalist server
On 09/10/2009 01:17 AM, James wrote: Nikos Chantziarasrealncat arcor.de writes: Ebuils that need xml support don't have a USE flag for it. Only those where it's optional. Hello Nikos, What about the -threads flag. Can I live without it? caveat for a minimal firewall? The threads flag depends on the specific packages. Some packages provide multithreading support (improves performance on multi-core/multi-CPU machines). You need to check with each specific package on whether it considers threads as a good idea or not. That pretty much means you should not set it in make.conf, but rather for each specific package. As Crístian mentioned, for Python you should leave it as-is. For other packages, you need to check first. The docs or the package's homepage or its mailing list/forum might be a good starting point.
Re: [gentoo-user] mount.cifs removal?
Paul Hartman paul.hartman+gen...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 1:25 PM, cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: Hi. Portage wants to remove mount.cifs as follows: net-fs/mount-cifs (net-fs/mount-cifs is blocking net-fs/samba-client-3.3.7). What is going on here and how can I keep mount.cifs and keep samba up to date at the same time? Starting with Samba 3.3 the ebuilds are split into samba-libs, samba-server and samba-client. I believe samba-client replaces the functionality of mount-cifs, so you should be able to unmerge mount-cifs and build samba with the client USE flag (which will pull in samba-client). OK, I will try and see what happens. Thanks. -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici cov...@ccs.covici.com
[gentoo-user] udev and init.d. Should it be running now?
Hi folks, I was browsing around and noticed that I now have a udev in /etc/init.d/. I checked, it is not running but udevd is not running either. See below: r...@smoker / # /etc/init.d/udev status * status: stopped r...@smoker / # r...@smoker / # ps aux | grep udev root 30451 0.0 0.0 1888 504 pts/0R+ 16:04 0:00 grep --colour=auto udev r...@smoker / # This is the baselayout that is installed: [I--] [ ] sys-apps/baselayout-1.12.11.1 I seem to recall that baselayout 2 is going to be a service thing but since I am on baselayout 1, should this be running? It seems to belong to the udev package tho according to this: r...@smoker / # equery belongs /etc/init.d/udev [ Searching for file(s) /etc/init.d/udev in *... ] sys-fs/udev-141 (/etc/init.d/udev) r...@smoker / # You can see from that what udev version is installed too. I also checked the elogs and I see no mention of it being changed to a service or that it needs to be added to a runlevel. Also, keep in mind, everything works fine. I just don't want to add it to boot or default runlevels and then break something. Thanks for any advice. I searched the forums and udev on g.o but didn't see anything relevant. Dale :-) :-)
[gentoo-user] Re: udev and init.d. Should it be running now?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dale wrote: Hi folks, I was browsing around and noticed that I now have a udev in /etc/init.d/. I checked, it is not running but udevd is not running either. See below: r...@smoker / # /etc/init.d/udev status * status: stopped r...@smoker / # r...@smoker / # ps aux | grep udev root 30451 0.0 0.0 1888 504 pts/0R+ 16:04 0:00 grep --colour=auto udev r...@smoker / # This is the baselayout that is installed: [I--] [ ] sys-apps/baselayout-1.12.11.1 I seem to recall that baselayout 2 is going to be a service thing but since I am on baselayout 1, should this be running? It seems to belong to the udev package tho according to this: r...@smoker / # equery belongs /etc/init.d/udev [ Searching for file(s) /etc/init.d/udev in *... ] sys-fs/udev-141 (/etc/init.d/udev) r...@smoker / # You can see from that what udev version is installed too. I also checked the elogs and I see no mention of it being changed to a service or that it needs to be added to a runlevel. Also, keep in mind, everything works fine. I just don't want to add it to boot or default runlevels and then break something. Thanks for any advice. I searched the forums and udev on g.o but didn't see anything relevant. Dale :-) :-) In baselayout-1, udev is started directly by baselayout itself, outside of any init scripts. In baselayout-2/openrc, an initscript is needed to start udev. If you actually read the script, you may notice that the script will immediately fail if you attempt to run it on a baselayout-1 system, as it isn't needed. If/when you upgrade to baselayout-2/openrc, it will automatically be added to the boot runlevel, but only if baselayout-1 had been previously installed. In short, don't worry about it. :) (this didn't appear to send the first time, so resending...) - -- Jonathan Callen (ABCD) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkqpeCgACgkQOypDUo0oQOppywCfa3+jnwddXZfocNqvDeWbbjGC 3UAAoL7b9ElKq+72QpFwtrW/hpSWVUOD =3KGk -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [gentoo-user] ati-drivers and 2.6.31 ?
On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:35:11 +0200, Peter Alfredsen peter.alfred...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 09:51:01 +0200 (CEST) Helmut Jarausch jarau...@igpm.rwth-aachen.de wrote: Hi, is there a patch for the ati-driver together with the new 2.6.31 kernel? Currently I get (ati-drivers-9.8) Kernels newer then 2.6.30 are not supported by this driver Try ati-drivers-8.660. It's ati-drivers-9.10-alpha in disguise. Ubuntu got ATI to give them some working drivers for Karmic. Scarabeus then put them in the tree, but used the old versioning scheme to distinguish them from the normal releases. /Peter Ugh, that's quite disturbing. All these version scheme dances are anything but practical. If there's no new release we should be using 9.8-r1 or whatever fits, just like in any other package. Otherwise, when .31 hits the tree we are going to need to mask ati-drivers and unmask that concrete version. -- Jesús Guerrero
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: udev and init.d. Should it be running now?
Jonathan Callen (ABCD) wrote: Dale wrote: Hi folks, I was browsing around and noticed that I now have a udev in /etc/init.d/. I checked, it is not running but udevd is not running either. See below: r...@smoker / # /etc/init.d/udev status * status: stopped r...@smoker / # r...@smoker / # ps aux | grep udev root 30451 0.0 0.0 1888 504 pts/0R+ 16:04 0:00 grep --colour=auto udev r...@smoker / # This is the baselayout that is installed: [I--] [ ] sys-apps/baselayout-1.12.11.1 I seem to recall that baselayout 2 is going to be a service thing but since I am on baselayout 1, should this be running? It seems to belong to the udev package tho according to this: r...@smoker / # equery belongs /etc/init.d/udev [ Searching for file(s) /etc/init.d/udev in *... ] sys-fs/udev-141 (/etc/init.d/udev) r...@smoker / # You can see from that what udev version is installed too. I also checked the elogs and I see no mention of it being changed to a service or that it needs to be added to a runlevel. Also, keep in mind, everything works fine. I just don't want to add it to boot or default runlevels and then break something. Thanks for any advice. I searched the forums and udev on g.o but didn't see anything relevant. Dale :-) :-) In baselayout-1, udev is started directly by baselayout itself, outside of any init scripts. In baselayout-2/openrc, an initscript is needed to start udev. If you actually read the script, you may notice that the script will immediately fail if you attempt to run it on a baselayout-1 system, as it isn't needed. If/when you upgrade to baselayout-2/openrc, it will automatically be added to the boot runlevel, but only if baselayout-1 had been previously installed. In short, don't worry about it. :) (this didn't appear to send the first time, so resending...) What you say makes sense but why is udev not running on my system anymore? I noticed this mostly because I went to single user, KDE seemed to have a few processes that didn't want to die when I logged out. Anyway, I used ps and less to list those processes and noticed that udev was not running. It used to be running in the past. That got me to looking and that is when I found the init script. Even after logging back into KDE, udev was still not running. I'm sort of concerned that something is not quite right. I haven't rebooted in a week or two either. Ideas? Thoughts? Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] How often -uD world?
On 10 Sep 2009, at 09:30, Alan McKinnon wrote: ... But I doubt the wisdom of updating an SSD netbook on the machine itself: 1. Wear on the SSD itself with all those compiles ... No harm in compiling on a hard-drive, via NFs or otherwise. I believe read speed of SSDs is fast, writes are slow. However, I am sceptical of wear claims, at least of you're using ½- decent flash memory (and SanDisk Kingston are cheap these days, at least in modest but usable sizes like 4gig). I have read many people talk about wear of flash memory to be a problem, but I don't think from anyone who's actually HAD a problem with it. I have read of many people using it happily for root filesystems over periods of years. I concede that syncing the portage tree the compilation of emerging packages results in an above-average number of writes, but I have this notion that the wear / limited writes problems have been largely overcome with modern flash memory (c.f. write levelling). Furthermore I have heard figures bandied about in the order of 100,000s per block and such as you'd need to write to the flash card constantly for years in order to kill it. I would really love to hear empirical evidence either way on this matter, but I don't think the OP needs to be too cautious of wear. (Of course this advice is worth what he paid for it, and warrantied to that value). Some previous comments: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/msg_d6e65b4d64a51c97f7c43c723e525e06.xml Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] running e2fsck pre-mount
On 9 Sep 2009, at 22:12, Maxim Wexler wrote: ... IIRC the el cheapo ssd on this netbook is not smart-capable. Can't remember where I read that. I have this notion that SMART may not be a feature of SSDs or flash memory. I am happy ti be corrected on this. Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] How often -uD world?
On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 23:54:34 +0100, Stroller wrote: I have read many people talk about wear of flash memory to be a problem, but I don't think from anyone who's actually HAD a problem with it. I have read of many people using it happily for root filesystems over periods of years. Some years ago, I had a Crucial flash drive die in a couple of months when the kernel's FAT implementation was updating the FAT on every block write. So it got rather hammered when writing ISO images to it. However, SSDs are not the same as SD cards in that they have wear levelling, so this is far less of an issue. Plus the write wear of drives has improved over the years. -- Neil Bothwick Committee (noun): A life form with six or more legs and no brain. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] How often -uD world?
On Thursday 10 September 2009 6:54:34 pm Stroller wrote: On 10 Sep 2009, at 09:30, Alan McKinnon wrote: ... But I doubt the wisdom of updating an SSD netbook on the machine itself: 1. Wear on the SSD itself with all those compiles ... No harm in compiling on a hard-drive, via NFs or otherwise. I believe read speed of SSDs is fast, writes are slow. However, I am sceptical of wear claims, at least of you're using ½- decent flash memory (and SanDisk Kingston are cheap these days, at least in modest but usable sizes like 4gig). I have read many people talk about wear of flash memory to be a problem, but I don't think from anyone who's actually HAD a problem with it. I have read of many people using it happily for root filesystems over periods of years. I concede that syncing the portage tree the compilation of emerging packages results in an above-average number of writes, but I have this notion that the wear / limited writes problems have been largely overcome with modern flash memory (c.f. write levelling). Furthermore I have heard figures bandied about in the order of 100,000s per block and such as you'd need to write to the flash card constantly for years in order to kill it. I would really love to hear empirical evidence either way on this matter, but I don't think the OP needs to be too cautious of wear. (Of course this advice is worth what he paid for it, and warrantied to that value). Some previous comments: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-user/msg_d6e65b4d64a51c97f7c43c723e525e06 .xml Stroller. I would think that as long as you back up personal and important files you could do it as often as needed to maintsin security and stability. You may want to use --pretend (-p) to see exactly what would be done and also use regular updates instead of deep updates which should only be used when needed. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
[gentoo-user] Re: running e2fsck pre-mount
On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 23:58:06 +0100, Stroller wrote: On 9 Sep 2009, at 22:12, Maxim Wexler wrote: ... IIRC the el cheapo ssd on this netbook is not smart-capable. Can't remember where I read that. I have this notion that SMART may not be a feature of SSDs or flash memory. I am happy ti be corrected on this. My Intel X25-M has SMART and shows sensible values, so it's probably just missing from the cheap drives. -h
Re: [gentoo-user] How often -uD world?
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 6:52 PM, Maxim Wexler maxim.wex...@gmail.com wrote: HI group, My netbook has only (4+8)G of sketchy SSD + SDHC RAM for everything and I am determined not to emerge anything I don't really need. But now that I'm mobile I have the capability of doing a -uD world whenever it's required without having to take days of dialup time. Question is, when's that? I assume with fewer packages, updating is not as urgent as on a big desktop with lots of HD space and lots of apps. Is there some sort of rule-of-thumb when it comes to timing or spacing their updates that members use to keep gentoo happy? For my wife's EeePC-901 (4GD SSD, and that's it...), I do all my compiling on a chroot on my desktop box, with things like /var/tmp, /usr/portage, and other non-critical-for-system-use-but-critical-for-portage-to-run directories bind-mounted to alternative locations outside the chroot on my desktop HDD - I then exit the chroot, unmount everything from under the chroot, then copy the image over to a 4GB SD card, then ultimately (after booting/running the SD card for a week or so to make sure it's all working smoothly) copy the SD card image over to the internal SSD. The resultant image with KDE 4.2.x, Firefox, Openoffice 3.x, and all the pieces you could really want, is about 2GB. As far as updating, I wait until there is a very compelling reason to upgrade (just started rebuilding the chroot with KDE 4.3.1, and kernel 2.6.31), then I repeat the process. I encourage my wife to keep her data on an SD card instead of the internal SSD (which is fairly easy, since the internal SSD on those things are slower than molasses), and any misc data/prefs files that she cares about are easy to copy over. If I had to do everything on the netbook, with no assistance from my desktop, I would definitely nfs-mount /var/tmp, and probably /usr/portage, to keep SSD space usage down, and unnecessary write wear (100,000 iterations can happen awfully quickly, if you're dealing with a lot of small files, such as c files, .o files, and .h files...). Anyway, my $0.02... -James Maxim
[gentoo-user] Re: udev and init.d. Should it be running now?
On 09/10/2009 03:43 PM, Dale wrote: Jonathan Callen (ABCD) wrote: Dale wrote: Hi folks, I was browsing around and noticed that I now have a udev in /etc/init.d/. I checked, it is not running but udevd is not running either. See below: r...@smoker / # /etc/init.d/udev status * status: stopped r...@smoker / # r...@smoker / # ps aux | grep udev root 30451 0.0 0.0 1888 504 pts/0R+ 16:04 0:00 grep --colour=auto udev r...@smoker / # Also, keep in mind, everything works fine. I just don't want to add it to boot or default runlevels and then break something. In baselayout-1, udev is started directly by baselayout itself, outside of any init scripts. In baselayout-2/openrc, an initscript is needed to start udev. If you actually read the script, you may notice that the script will immediately fail if you attempt to run it on a baselayout-1 system, as it isn't needed... ...Anyway, I used ps and less to list those processes and noticed that udev was not running. It used to be running in the past. I was surprised to read Jonathan's post, but I see he's right. On my x86 machine the status of udev is stopped and on ~amd64 it's started. But both machines show that /sbin/udevd is indeed running, so I can see why you are uneasy about your status quo. Have you tried running /sbin/udevd --daemon from a command prompt? When I try it I get a message that udevd is already running.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: udev and init.d. Should it be running now?
walt wrote: On 09/10/2009 03:43 PM, Dale wrote: Jonathan Callen (ABCD) wrote: Dale wrote: Hi folks, I was browsing around and noticed that I now have a udev in /etc/init.d/. I checked, it is not running but udevd is not running either. See below: r...@smoker / # /etc/init.d/udev status * status: stopped r...@smoker / # r...@smoker / # ps aux | grep udev root 30451 0.0 0.0 1888 504 pts/0R+ 16:04 0:00 grep --colour=auto udev r...@smoker / # Also, keep in mind, everything works fine. I just don't want to add it to boot or default runlevels and then break something. In baselayout-1, udev is started directly by baselayout itself, outside of any init scripts. In baselayout-2/openrc, an initscript is needed to start udev. If you actually read the script, you may notice that the script will immediately fail if you attempt to run it on a baselayout-1 system, as it isn't needed... ...Anyway, I used ps and less to list those processes and noticed that udev was not running. It used to be running in the past. I was surprised to read Jonathan's post, but I see he's right. On my x86 machine the status of udev is stopped and on ~amd64 it's started. But both machines show that /sbin/udevd is indeed running, so I can see why you are uneasy about your status quo. Have you tried running /sbin/udevd --daemon from a command prompt? When I try it I get a message that udevd is already running. OK. Now I feel better. I used your command and now it is running. I hope it will run when I reboot. o_O r...@smoker / # /sbin/udevd --daemon r...@smoker / # ps aux | grep udev root 2595 0.0 0.0 2204 780 ?Ss 20:23 0:00 /sbin/udevd --daemon root 2599 0.0 0.0 1888 512 pts/0S+ 20:23 0:00 grep --colour=auto udev r...@smoker / # At least I know udev works now. I was hoping that something hadn't been broken and I just didn't notice it. Thanks much for the info. I know how to start it if it is not running at least. Dale :-) :-)
[gentoo-user] ReSolved: flags on a minimalist server
Crístian Viana cristiandeives at gmail.com writes: Thanks for the links and info. I just added them to the USE flag setting in the make.conf file. thx, James
[gentoo-user] timeouts with dhcpcd 5.1
Hi. I had a strange problem when I emerge dhcpcd 5.1 I get a timeout when trying to get a lease -- it says broadcasting for a lease and times out, however when I go back to 4.0.13 everything is fine. I even tried toput -I in the command line to emulate the old behavior, but it didn't make any difference. Any ideas on this would be appreciated. -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici cov...@ccs.covici.com
Re: [gentoo-user] timeouts with dhcpcd 5.1
On 11 Sep 2009, at 03:49, cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: Hi. I had a strange problem when I emerge dhcpcd 5.1 I get a timeout when trying to get a lease -- it says broadcasting for a lease and times out, however when I go back to 4.0.13 everything is fine. I even tried toput -I in the command line to emulate the old behavior, but it didn't make any difference. I'm pretty sure you can start dhcpcd with a verbose flag. Stroller.
[gentoo-user] my gentoo cannot find my HD
Hi, i installed my gentoo x64 on my usb HD, because i have to use windows for my work. but the problem is that if i boot from the usb HD, it cannot find the HD on my laptop. the gentoo 2008 installation cd works very well, so i think i must have missed some drivers in the kernel or module. i have included anything that is related to ide, scsi, sata, and usb. is there anything else i should do to make my HD on laptop work? my laptop is thinkpad t61. -- Best Regards, David Shen http://twitter.com/davidshen84
Re: [gentoo-user] timeouts with dhcpcd 5.1
Stroller wrote: On 11 Sep 2009, at 03:49, cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: Hi. I had a strange problem when I emerge dhcpcd 5.1 I get a timeout when trying to get a lease -- it says broadcasting for a lease and times out, however when I go back to 4.0.13 everything is fine. I even tried toput -I in the command line to emulate the old behavior, but it didn't make any difference. I'm pretty sure you can start dhcpcd with a verbose flag. Stroller. Sure can. dhcpcd -d ifname will do it. Or put 'dhcpcd_ifname=-d' in your /etc/conf.d/net to have it always show the output during boot. John Moe
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: udev and init.d. Should it be running now?
090910 Dale wrote: I noticed I now have a udev in /etc/init.d/. I checked, it is not running but udevd is not running either: r...@smoker / # /etc/init.d/udev status * status: stopped r...@smoker / # ps aux | grep udev root 30451 0.0 0.0 1888 504 pts/0 R+ 16:04 0:00 grep --colour=auto udev Using Baselayout 1.12.11.1 Udev 141 , I get : root:508 default ps aux | grep udev root 659 0.0 0.0 12524 936 ? Ss Sep10 0:00 /sbin/udevd --daemon -- ,, SUPPORT ___//___, Philip Webb ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto TRANSIT`-O--O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca
Re: [gentoo-user] timeouts with dhcpcd 5.1
On 11 Sep 2009, at 05:17, John H. Moe wrote: Stroller wrote: On 11 Sep 2009, at 03:49, cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: Hi. I had a strange problem when I emerge dhcpcd 5.1 I get a timeout when trying to get a lease -- it says broadcasting for a lease and times out I'm pretty sure you can start dhcpcd with a verbose flag. Sure can. dhcpcd -d ifname will do it. Or put 'dhcpcd_ifname=- d' in your /etc/conf.d/net to have it always show the output during boot. Ah, splendid! I didn't feel the need to to look up that information because I was sure snark the OP would find it in the manpage. /snark Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] my gentoo cannot find my HD
On 11 Sep 2009, at 04:57, Xi Shen wrote: i installed my gentoo x64 on my usb HD, because i have to use windows for my work. but the problem is that if i boot from the usb HD, it cannot find the HD on my laptop. ... Can you post the output of `dmesg` please? Stroller.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: udev and init.d. Should it be running now?
Philip Webb wrote: 090910 Dale wrote: I noticed I now have a udev in /etc/init.d/. I checked, it is not running but udevd is not running either: r...@smoker / # /etc/init.d/udev status * status: stopped r...@smoker / # ps aux | grep udev root 30451 0.0 0.0 1888 504 pts/0 R+ 16:04 0:00 grep --colour=auto udev Using Baselayout 1.12.11.1 Udev 141 , I get : root:508 default ps aux | grep udev root 659 0.0 0.0 12524 936 ? Ss Sep10 0:00 /sbin/udevd --daemon So it should be running all the time then but for some reason it wasn't on mine. Hmmm. I'm going to reboot sometime soon and I'll check to see if it is running then. I hope this was just a fluke of some kind. Thanks for all the help. I'll report back if it doesn't start as it should. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] my gentoo cannot find my HD
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 11:57:51AM +0800, Xi Shen wrote: Hi, i installed my gentoo x64 on my usb HD, because i have to use windows for my work. but the problem is that if i boot from the usb HD, it cannot find the HD on my laptop. the gentoo 2008 installation cd works very well, so i think i must have missed some drivers in the kernel or module. i have included anything that is related to ide, scsi, sata, and usb. is there anything else i should do to make my HD on laptop work? my laptop is thinkpad t61. -- Best Regards, David Shen http://twitter.com/davidshen84 Do `lspci -n` and paste it's output at http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/. Also look at Pappy's kernel seeds.[1] [1]http://62.3.120.141/~pappy/ -- Jake Todd // If it isn't broke, tweak it! pgp0OQtoGPKDi.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [gentoo-user] timeouts with dhcpcd 5.1
Stroller wrote: On 11 Sep 2009, at 05:17, John H. Moe wrote: Stroller wrote: On 11 Sep 2009, at 03:49, cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: Hi. I had a strange problem when I emerge dhcpcd 5.1 I get a timeout when trying to get a lease -- it says broadcasting for a lease and times out I'm pretty sure you can start dhcpcd with a verbose flag. Sure can. dhcpcd -d ifname will do it. Or put 'dhcpcd_ifname=-d' in your /etc/conf.d/net to have it always show the output during boot. Ah, splendid! I didn't feel the need to to look up that information because I was sure snark the OP would find it in the manpage. /snark Stroller. You know, I almost didn't click on send, because I had a fleeting thought that you might have used that reasoning. Always go with your first instinct, eh? :-P
Re: [gentoo-user] my gentoo cannot find my HD
of course i am using genkernel. i do not have access to my linux box now. i will post the output later. On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 8:39 AM, Jacob Todd jaketodd...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 11:57:51AM +0800, Xi Shen wrote: Hi, i installed my gentoo x64 on my usb HD, because i have to use windows for my work. but the problem is that if i boot from the usb HD, it cannot find the HD on my laptop. the gentoo 2008 installation cd works very well, so i think i must have missed some drivers in the kernel or module. i have included anything that is related to ide, scsi, sata, and usb. is there anything else i should do to make my HD on laptop work? my laptop is thinkpad t61. -- Best Regards, David Shen http://twitter.com/davidshen84 Do `lspci -n` and paste it's output at http://kmuto.jp/debian/hcl/. Also look at Pappy's kernel seeds.[1] [1]http://62.3.120.141/~pappy/ -- Jake Todd // If it isn't broke, tweak it! -- Best Regards, David Shen http://twitter.com/davidshen84
Re: [gentoo-user] timeouts with dhcpcd 5.1
Stroller strol...@stellar.eclipse.co.uk wrote: On 11 Sep 2009, at 05:17, John H. Moe wrote: Stroller wrote: On 11 Sep 2009, at 03:49, cov...@ccs.covici.com wrote: Hi. I had a strange problem when I emerge dhcpcd 5.1 I get a timeout when trying to get a lease -- it says broadcasting for a lease and times out I'm pretty sure you can start dhcpcd with a verbose flag. Sure can. dhcpcd -d ifname will do it. Or put 'dhcpcd_ifname=- d' in your /etc/conf.d/net to have it always show the output during boot. Ah, splendid! I didn't feel the need to to look up that information because I was sure snark the OP would find it in the manpage. /snark However, when I put the -d, it didn't tell me anything except that dhcpcd sent several discover packets and then said timeout, so my original question still remains -- why a timeout with 5.1 with the same dhcpcd.conf and no timeout with 4.0.13. -- Your life is like a penny. You're going to lose it. The question is: How do you spend it? John Covici cov...@ccs.covici.com