date:20120617

On Jun 17, 2012 12:29 PM, 赵佳晖 jiahui.tar...@gmail.com wrote:

 In my Processor page, i just find the kvm support..
   --- Paravirtualized guest support
│ │
   │ │  [ ]   Paravirtual steal time accounting
(NEW)   │ │
   │ │  [ ]   KVM paravirtualized clock (NEW)
  │ │
   │ │  [ ]   KVM Guest support (NEW)
  │ │
   │ │  [ ]   Lguest guest support (NEW)
 │ │
   │ │  [ ]   Enable paravirtualization code (NEW)
 │ │
   │ │
 │ │



Please do not top-post.

Try turning on Enable paravirtualization code.

Rgds,

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: Gnome3

On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 2:22 PM, walt w41...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 06/16/2012 12:01 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
 BTW, using GNOME 3 for more than one year in my laptop and desktop,
 and I love it. I also want a tablet with it.

 Are you using any of the extensions Linus was discussing?

I'm using the Remove Accessibility Extension, so the accessibility
icon doesn't appear in the top bar; the Auto Move Windows Extension,
so Emacs is always in virtual desktop 1, Chrome in virtual desktop 2,
etc.; and the Weather indicator Extension, to know that it's
raining. That's all the extensions I'm using; in my desktop I also use
Alternative Status Menu Extension to be able to hibernate (suspend
to disk) it: I can suspend to RAM just fine, but I like to save power.

I don't remember the extensions Linus mentioned.

 I'm using
 gnome3 in fallback mode because most of my machines are too old to
 have the hardware needed to run ghome-shell.  I haven't tried any
 gnome3 extensions yet on my one new machine that will run gnome-shell.

I have an nvidia card in my desktop, with the nouveau drivers. My
laptop uses a simple intel card; but run the full GNOME experience; I
actually don't like the fall back mode.

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: Linus ranting about Gnome3

2012-06-17 Thread Alan McKinnon

On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 03:13:50 +0200
Volker Armin Hemmann volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote:

 Am Samstag, 16. Juni 2012, 19:06:30 schrieb Michael Mol:
  On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 6:56 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann
  
  volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote:
   Am Samstag, 16. Juni 2012, 23:12:48 schrieb Alan McKinnon:
   On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 00:00:04 +0300
   
   Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote:
On 16/06/12 21:27, walt wrote:
 I guess they figure the desktop will be extinct relatively
 soon and their customer base will vanish unless they capture
 the smartphone market.

Ah yes, the death of the desktop PC, which is happening for 15
years now.

Are we dead yet?
   
   Fine comment.
   
   Yes indeed, Microsoft's *real* cash cow - millions of corporate
   desktops running $LATEST_WINDOWS and $LATEST_OFFICE are all
   going to die out inthe next year. Not.
   
   and in corporate speak that means Windows XP and Office 2003/2007
   
   because they work, they don't get in the way of doing things, the
   people are trained and nobody needs to smudge around on the
   screen,
  
  The most effective way I can imagine for keeping me on-task: Force
  me to use a Windows XP workstation.
  
  I won't be using _any_ personal credentials through the web browser
  or any other part of the system. I'm not taking that risk on a
  post-support version of Windows.
 
 win xp is still supported.
 
 have you ever dealt with 'standard office workers'? 

No, I haven't much. I refuse to deal with such people (because if I
have to they produce a reaction in me that gets me fired...)

But I have dealt with the tools they use

 They want to use
 the same tools every freaking day. 

You must mean the typical corporate bespoke app. You know the ones -
the apps that wraps the company's entire business logic and makes
business possible.

Now these apps are atrocious. The worst of the worst you will ever find
in the Android App Store is a beautiful model of efficiency compared to
the best bespoke corporate app out there.

The buttons go in the weirdest places. The workflow is bizarre. They
tend to make no bloody sense at all. But people have gotten used to the
save button in the lower left corner where it cannot be found, and
changing that crashes the entire business process for a week. If anyone
thinks I'm kidding, I assure you I am not.


 The icons on the same place. The
 menu items unchanged. The smallest change throws them off balance.
 Going from one office version to another - like 2000-2003 is a
 disaster. And while 20072010 are superior in every regard these
 people are helpless if you confront them with such drastic changes.

And an Office upgrade is a slick easy one to do. 

If Office upgrades cause such havoc, imagine what changing the bespoke
stuff does

 
 Now imagine an update to vista, win7 or win8
 
 Not everybody is a computer geek.



-- 
Alan McKinnnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

[gentoo-user] OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment

So, while we're meta-discussing Linus' rant on Gnome3, here's an article
from TechRadar exploring the usability of the leading Linux desktop
environments.

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/whats-the-best-linux-desktop-environment-1045280


Summary: Try the latest KDE. You might get pleasantly surprised.

Rgds,

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: Gnome3

2012-06-17 Thread William Kenworthy

On Sun, 2012-06-17 at 04:00 -0500, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
 On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 2:22 PM, walt w41...@gmail.com wrote:
  On 06/16/2012 12:01 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:
  BTW, using GNOME 3 for more than one year in my laptop and desktop,
  and I love it. I also want a tablet with it.
 
  Are you using any of the extensions Linus was discussing?
 
 I'm using the Remove Accessibility Extension, so the accessibility
 icon doesn't appear in the top bar; the Auto Move Windows Extension,
 so Emacs is always in virtual desktop 1, Chrome in virtual desktop 2,
 etc.; and the Weather indicator Extension, to know that it's
 raining. That's all the extensions I'm using; in my desktop I also use
 Alternative Status Menu Extension to be able to hibernate (suspend
 to disk) it: I can suspend to RAM just fine, but I like to save power.
 
 I don't remember the extensions Linus mentioned.
 
  I'm using
  gnome3 in fallback mode because most of my machines are too old to
  have the hardware needed to run ghome-shell.  I haven't tried any
  gnome3 extensions yet on my one new machine that will run gnome-shell.
 
 I have an nvidia card in my desktop, with the nouveau drivers. My
 laptop uses a simple intel card; but run the full GNOME experience; I
 actually don't like the fall back mode.
 
 Regards.

The weather extension I am using is very inaccurate - if it says rain,
it could have at some point a few daya ago ... or in the future ... hard
to tell (for Western Australia).  There is no weather map/radar map.  At
least gnome2 displayed the metar data from the airport which is spot on.
This almost seems like a different location (though its actually common
for overseas sources of local weather data to be really way off - my
samsung galaxy phone is similar, and prior to that the apps on a nokia
n900 ... same).

The fonts are really screwed up - I have two gnome 3 systems, one after
trying to follow a few guides just looks crappy but I can read them, the
other (crt, not lcd) keeps getting corrupted (almost looks like it is
selecting wingdings or a chinese glyph font) so you have to log out/in
to be able to read things - nothing else seems to work.  Sometimes its
the titlebars or just desktop icon titles, other times the panels in
evolution and firefox, or everything.

Its quite unreliable on both systems, dropping dead (restarting X) or
requiring logging out/in or manually restarting X from a console to get
control at least once a day.

Then there is the new workflow model ... its crap!  The unbuntu folks at
work have been wrestling with it longer than me and seem lukewarm on the
whole thing even after having plenty of time to get used to it.  Then
there is the constant jibes from the windows users  - at least when win8
comes out I'll be able to laugh back at them (or is it cry along with
them :)

I am trying to persevere as its the coming thing ... that is, I
thought it would be until I tried it and realised its just a bad dream.
A lot of problems (lack of stability) are obviously bugs and will be
fixed.  The crappy extensions, ditto when someone gets around making
real ones instead of hacks to quickly fill the holes left by not having
any functionality built in (by the way, having an extension to restart
the shell because it gets corrupted is a prime example of whats wrong
with gnome at the moment :(  The extension installation via a browser
looks good until you start to think of the security implications ... it
feels very apple-ish in a bad kind of way - giving up control to a
third party you dont really know/trust.

BillK

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: Gnome3

2012-06-17 Thread Paul Colquhoun

On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 18:03:36 William Kenworthy wrote:

 The weather extension I am using is very inaccurate - if it says rain,
 it could have at some point a few daya ago ... or in the future ... hard
 to tell (for Western Australia).  There is no weather map/radar map.  At

Here is a weather radar for Perth, along with the local forcast.

http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDR703.shtml
http://www.bom.gov.au/wa/forecasts/map.shtml

More radar locations can be found at http://www.bom.gov.au/australia/radar/


-- 
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, ULC.http://andor.dropbear.id.au/~paulcol
 Asking for technical help in newsgroups?  Read this first:
http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: Linus ranting about Gnome3

2012-06-17 Thread Volker Armin Hemmann

Am Freitag, 15. Juni 2012, 23:57:26 schrieb Pandu Poluan:
 Just in case anyone missed it:
 
 https://plus.google.com/102150693225130002912/posts/UkoAaLDpF4I
 
 Rgds,

reeading that and this thread:

as a kde user it is refreshing to see that gnome3 is worse than KDE 4.0

I hope all those arrogant gnome users who could not shut up back then are 
covering in some corner and crying in mental pain and humiliation.

-- 
#163933

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: Gnome3

2012-06-17 Thread William Kenworthy

On Sun, 2012-06-17 at 20:24 +1000, Paul Colquhoun wrote:
 On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 18:03:36 William Kenworthy wrote:
 
  The weather extension I am using is very inaccurate - if it says rain,
  it could have at some point a few daya ago ... or in the future ... hard
  to tell (for Western Australia).  There is no weather map/radar map.  At
 
 Here is a weather radar for Perth, along with the local forcast.
 
 http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDR703.shtml
 http://www.bom.gov.au/wa/forecasts/map.shtml
 
 More radar locations can be found at http://www.bom.gov.au/australia/radar/
 
 

Been using those for years - along with scripts for screen scraping to
extract the image and insert it into the gnome2 weather app - cant find
a way do that with gnome 3, maybe I should pull the source and try and
make something that works, and is accurate ... need more hours in the
day tho.

BillK

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: Linus ranting about Gnome3

2012-06-17 Thread William Kenworthy

On Sun, 2012-06-17 at 12:31 +0200, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
 Am Freitag, 15. Juni 2012, 23:57:26 schrieb Pandu Poluan:
  Just in case anyone missed it:
  
  https://plus.google.com/102150693225130002912/posts/UkoAaLDpF4I
  
  Rgds,
 
 reeading that and this thread:
 
 as a kde user it is refreshing to see that gnome3 is worse than KDE 4.0
 
 I hope all those arrogant gnome users who could not shut up back then are 
 covering in some corner and crying in mental pain and humiliation.
 

quick, pass the tin hat, someone can see me!

:)
BillK

[gentoo-user] Re: OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment

On Jun 17, 2012 4:42 PM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote:

 So, while we're meta-discussing Linus' rant on Gnome3, here's an article
from TechRadar exploring the usability of the leading Linux desktop
environments.


http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/whats-the-best-linux-desktop-environment-1045280


 Summary: Try the latest KDE. You might get pleasantly surprised.


Here's the mobile version of the above:

http://m.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/whats-the-best-linux-desktop-environment-1045280

Rgds,

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment

On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 4:42 AM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote:
So, while we're meta-discussing Linus' rant on Gnome3, here's an article
from TechRadar exploring the usability of the leading Linux desktop
environments.

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/whats-the-best-linux-desktop-environment-1045280

Summary: Try the latest KDE. You might get pleasantly surprised.

In my humble opinion, you should use whatever you actually like. You
don't like GNOME? Then don't use it; and if you used it before and
don't like the new version, either get involver to get it fixed (for
whatever defintion of fixed you want), fork it (although maybe you
should first try Unity, MATE, or Cinnamon before), or go to another
desktop.

I like GNOME 3, therefore I use it. I like systemd, therefore I use
it. I like Emacs, therefore I use it. If someone else wants to use
KDE, OpenRC, and Vim, it's none of my business. To each his own.

There is no best desktop environment. There are only preferences.

I like GNOME 3 a lot, and (in my personal case) it has helped me to
actually improve my productivity in my what I do; other users may
experience the opposite, even if they do exactly the same things I do.
Other users maybe do something completely different, and they may also
benefit from GNOME 3.

Really, use whatever floats your boat. And if you don't like a
particular software (or developer, or design), then simply don't use
it.

I really, really, *really* don't like KDE. I have never done (and I
tried versions 1, 2, and 3; I lost interest in trying for version 4);
but I have *never* told anyone that they should not use it, nor
criticized their users and developers. It's none of my business; I
don't like it, therefore I don't use it.

Entre los individuos, como entre las naciones, el respeto al derecho
ajeno es la paz. Among individuals, as among nations, respect for the
rights of others is peace.

Regards.
--
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: Linus ranting about Gnome3

2012-06-17 Thread Alecks Gates

On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 5:31 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann
volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote:
 Am Freitag, 15. Juni 2012, 23:57:26 schrieb Pandu Poluan:
 Just in case anyone missed it:

 https://plus.google.com/102150693225130002912/posts/UkoAaLDpF4I

 Rgds,

 reeading that and this thread:

 as a kde user it is refreshing to see that gnome3 is worse than KDE 4.0

 I hope all those arrogant gnome users who could not shut up back then are
 covering in some corner and crying in mental pain and humiliation.

 --
 #163933


I must be really special since I'm completely productive and happy
with Gnome 3 . . . .

I'll need the tin hat, too.  Seems rather stylish, right now.

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment

2012-06-17 Thread Keith Dart

Re
CAA2qdGUzjvpsZ6bB7oTHTKDo+HFC95Ma+PraEZOQzVtED5ESfw@mail.gmail.comcaa2qdguzjvpsz6bb7othtkdo+hfc95ma+praezoqzvted5e...@mail.gmail.com,
Canek Peláez Valdés said:
 Really, use whatever floats your boat. And if you don't like a
 particular software (or developer, or design), then simply don't use
 it.

That's the really nice thing about the Linux platform. You have
choices.  But it seems to be human nature that as soon as you have
choices people will argue over what's best. 

But I like choices. This is also why I use Gentoo Linux. :-)


BTW, I recently eradicated Gnome from my systems. I'm strictly XFCE
now. I'm happy and thankful to the xfce developers to have that choice.


-- Keith


-- 

-- ~
   Keith Dart ke...@dartworks.biz
   public key: ID: 19017044
   http://www.dartworks.biz/
   =

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment

2012-06-17 Thread Volker Armin Hemmann

Am Sonntag, 17. Juni 2012, 11:52:48 schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés:
 On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 4:42 AM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote:
  So, while we're meta-discussing Linus' rant on Gnome3, here's an article
  from TechRadar exploring the usability of the leading Linux desktop
  environments.
  
  http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/whats-the-best-li
  nux-desktop-environment-1045280
  
  Summary: Try the latest KDE. You might get pleasantly surprised.
 
 In my humble opinion, you should use whatever you actually like. You
 don't like GNOME? Then don't use it; and if you used it before and
 don't like the new version, either get involver to get it fixed (for
 whatever defintion of fixed you want), fork it (although maybe you
 should first try Unity, MATE, or Cinnamon before), or go to another
 desktop.
 
 I like GNOME 3, therefore I use it. I like systemd, therefore I use
 it. I like Emacs, therefore I use it. If someone else wants to use
 KDE, OpenRC, and Vim, it's none of my business. To each his own.

one question - how can you call something that doesn't even let you change the 
fonts call a 'desktop environment'?

-- 
#163933

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment

2012-06-17 Thread Alecks Gates

On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann
volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote:
 Am Sonntag, 17. Juni 2012, 11:52:48 schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés:
 On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 4:42 AM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote:
  So, while we're meta-discussing Linus' rant on Gnome3, here's an article
  from TechRadar exploring the usability of the leading Linux desktop
  environments.
 
  http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/whats-the-best-li
  nux-desktop-environment-1045280
 
  Summary: Try the latest KDE. You might get pleasantly surprised.

 In my humble opinion, you should use whatever you actually like. You
 don't like GNOME? Then don't use it; and if you used it before and
 don't like the new version, either get involver to get it fixed (for
 whatever defintion of fixed you want), fork it (although maybe you
 should first try Unity, MATE, or Cinnamon before), or go to another
 desktop.

 I like GNOME 3, therefore I use it. I like systemd, therefore I use
 it. I like Emacs, therefore I use it. If someone else wants to use
 KDE, OpenRC, and Vim, it's none of my business. To each his own.

 one question - how can you call something that doesn't even let you change the
 fonts call a 'desktop environment'?

 --
 #163933


Ignoring the fact that I *can* change the font, why should I have to?
It's fine as it is for me ;).

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: Linus ranting about Gnome3

On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 12:57 PM, Alecks Gates aleck...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 5:31 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann
 volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote:
 Am Freitag, 15. Juni 2012, 23:57:26 schrieb Pandu Poluan:
 Just in case anyone missed it:

 https://plus.google.com/102150693225130002912/posts/UkoAaLDpF4I

 Rgds,

 reeading that and this thread:

 as a kde user it is refreshing to see that gnome3 is worse than KDE 4.0

 I hope all those arrogant gnome users who could not shut up back then are
 covering in some corner and crying in mental pain and humiliation.

 --
 #163933


 I must be really special since I'm completely productive and happy
 with Gnome 3 . . . .

Haven't you heard? Those of us who like GNOME 3 are nothing but
fanbois. Sorry to break the news to you; I didn't know either, and it
was also a shock to me.

I'm trying to live now a regular life knowing that I'm just a fanboi,
but I suppose it's hard, since we obviously don't know what the hell
are we doing if we like such a gigantic mess like GNOME 3 is.

(I *really* think I should not  have the need to said this, but just
to cover all the bases: All of the above is sarcasm.)

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment

On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 12:58 PM, Volker Armin Hemmann
volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote:
 Am Sonntag, 17. Juni 2012, 11:52:48 schrieb Canek Peláez Valdés:
 On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 4:42 AM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote:
  So, while we're meta-discussing Linus' rant on Gnome3, here's an article
  from TechRadar exploring the usability of the leading Linux desktop
  environments.
 
  http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/whats-the-best-li
  nux-desktop-environment-1045280
 
  Summary: Try the latest KDE. You might get pleasantly surprised.

 In my humble opinion, you should use whatever you actually like. You
 don't like GNOME? Then don't use it; and if you used it before and
 don't like the new version, either get involver to get it fixed (for
 whatever defintion of fixed you want), fork it (although maybe you
 should first try Unity, MATE, or Cinnamon before), or go to another
 desktop.

 I like GNOME 3, therefore I use it. I like systemd, therefore I use
 it. I like Emacs, therefore I use it. If someone else wants to use
 KDE, OpenRC, and Vim, it's none of my business. To each his own.

 one question - how can you call something that doesn't even let you change the
 fonts call a 'desktop environment'?

Really? I try to write a conciliatory post about how we should respect
each others preferences and that's the first thing you respond?

To all of us who actually believe that everyone has the right to like
whatever they choose, please don't feed the trolls. The intent of my
post was exactly to prevent flame wars.

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment

On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 5:42 AM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote:
 So, while we're meta-discussing Linus' rant on Gnome3, here's an article
 from TechRadar exploring the usability of the leading Linux desktop
 environments.

 http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/whats-the-best-linux-desktop-environment-1045280

 Summary: Try the latest KDE. You might get pleasantly surprised.

For me? I like using awesomewm where I can, though sometimes I switch
to XFCE where useful. KDE isn't bad, except for compile times; I'm not
enough of a KDE power user to really be affected by the differences
between KDE3 and KDE4.

I tend to recommend LXDE, XFCE or GNOME to Linux newcomers, depending
on where they're coming from. LXDE is an excellent choice if the
newbie hails from WinXP, for example. XFCE is reasonable for Mac or
late-model Windows users. GNOME (either 2 or 3) is reasonable for
low-end users.

I don't deal with many I don't want to touch it users, but for
those, I found netbook-oriented window managers work best. The less
the user has to think about the interface, the more they can get on to
complaining about apps.


-- 
:wq

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment

2012-06-17 Thread Walter Dnes

On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 11:52:48AM -0500, Canek Pel??ez Vald??s wrote

 In my humble opinion, you should use whatever you actually like. You
 don't like GNOME? Then don't use it; and if you used it before and
 don't like the new version, either get involver to get it fixed (for
 whatever defintion of fixed you want), fork it (although maybe you
 should first try Unity, MATE, or Cinnamon before), or go to another
 desktop.

  My attitude towards KDE and GNOME is the pox on both their houses; I
don't run desktops, I run applications. I use ICEWM with my most-used
apps in the launch menu and launchbar.  Desktop users moving to LXDE
or XFCE is perfectly understandable.

-- 
Walter Dnes waltd...@waltdnes.org

[gentoo-user] Re: OT: Linus ranting about Gnome3

2012-06-17 Thread Nikos Chantziaras


On 17/06/12 22:12, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:

On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 12:57 PM, Alecks Gates aleck...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 5:31 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann
volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote:

Am Freitag, 15. Juni 2012, 23:57:26 schrieb Pandu Poluan:

Just in case anyone missed it:

https://plus.google.com/102150693225130002912/posts/UkoAaLDpF4I

Rgds,


reeading that and this thread:

as a kde user it is refreshing to see that gnome3 is worse than KDE 4.0

I hope all those arrogant gnome users who could not shut up back then are
covering in some corner and crying in mental pain and humiliation.

--
#163933



I must be really special since I'm completely productive and happy
with Gnome 3 . . . .


Haven't you heard? Those of us who like GNOME 3 are nothing but
fanbois. Sorry to break the news to you; I didn't know either, and it
was also a shock to me.

I'm trying to live now a regular life knowing that I'm just a fanboi,
but I suppose it's hard, since we obviously don't know what the hell
are we doing if we like such a gigantic mess like GNOME 3 is.

(I *really* think I should not  have the need to said this, but just
to cover all the bases: All of the above is sarcasm.)

Regards.


People using Gnome don't need to get upset because a website posts a 
review where KDE wins, or a high-profile community member like Torvalds 
bashes it.


Gnome sucks.  It sucks really, really bad.  But this is only the opinion 
of the one writing that statement.


Like fortune cookie told me when I logged in today:

  Opinions are like assholes -- everyone's got one, but
  nobody wants to look at the other guy's.

-- Hal Hickman

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: Linus ranting about Gnome3

2012-06-17 Thread Alecks Gates

On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 4:09 PM, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 17/06/12 22:12, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote:

 On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 12:57 PM, Alecks Gates aleck...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 5:31 AM, Volker Armin Hemmann
 volkerar...@googlemail.com wrote:

 Am Freitag, 15. Juni 2012, 23:57:26 schrieb Pandu Poluan:

 Just in case anyone missed it:

 https://plus.google.com/102150693225130002912/posts/UkoAaLDpF4I

 Rgds,


 reeading that and this thread:

 as a kde user it is refreshing to see that gnome3 is worse than KDE 4.0

 I hope all those arrogant gnome users who could not shut up back then
 are
 covering in some corner and crying in mental pain and humiliation.

 --
 #163933


 I must be really special since I'm completely productive and happy
 with Gnome 3 . . . .


 Haven't you heard? Those of us who like GNOME 3 are nothing but
 fanbois. Sorry to break the news to you; I didn't know either, and it
 was also a shock to me.

 I'm trying to live now a regular life knowing that I'm just a fanboi,
 but I suppose it's hard, since we obviously don't know what the hell
 are we doing if we like such a gigantic mess like GNOME 3 is.

 (I *really* think I should not  have the need to said this, but just
 to cover all the bases: All of the above is sarcasm.)

 Regards.


 People using Gnome don't need to get upset because a website posts a review
 where KDE wins, or a high-profile community member like Torvalds bashes it.

 Gnome sucks.  It sucks really, really bad.  But this is only the opinion of
 the one writing that statement.

 Like fortune cookie told me when I logged in today:

  Opinions are like assholes -- everyone's got one, but
  nobody wants to look at the other guy's.

                -- Hal Hickman



As near as I can tell, it's not the GNOME users that are upset but
rather the people bashing it.  It's almost like reverse trolling... I
can just sit here and nod my head while someone complains all day
long!

If you don't like it, fine.  Don't get yourself upset over it, not
that you, personally, are getting upset.

[gentoo-user] Re: OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment

2012-06-17 Thread Nikos Chantziaras


On 17/06/12 22:36, Walter Dnes wrote:

On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 11:52:48AM -0500, Canek Pel??ez Vald??s wrote


In my humble opinion, you should use whatever you actually like. You
don't like GNOME? Then don't use it; and if you used it before and
don't like the new version, either get involver to get it fixed (for
whatever defintion of fixed you want), fork it (although maybe you
should first try Unity, MATE, or Cinnamon before), or go to another
desktop.


   My attitude towards KDE and GNOME is the pox on both their houses; I
don't run desktops, I run applications.


It's just that most people prefer a unified look and feel, rather than 
each application inventing the same things in a different and 
incompatible way.  This is why DEs are so popular.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment

On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 5:17 PM, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 17/06/12 22:36, Walter Dnes wrote:

 On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 11:52:48AM -0500, Canek Pel??ez Vald??s wrote

 In my humble opinion, you should use whatever you actually like. You
 don't like GNOME? Then don't use it; and if you used it before and
 don't like the new version, either get involver to get it fixed (for
 whatever defintion of fixed you want), fork it (although maybe you
 should first try Unity, MATE, or Cinnamon before), or go to another
 desktop.


   My attitude towards KDE and GNOME is the pox on both their houses; I
 don't run desktops, I run applications.


 It's just that most people prefer a unified look and feel, rather than each
 application inventing the same things in a different and incompatible way.
  This is why DEs are so popular.

We had a unified look and feel...but nobody liked that particular Motif. ;)

-- 
:wq

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment

2012-06-17 Thread Neil Bothwick

On Mon, 18 Jun 2012 00:17:46 +0300, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

 My attitude towards KDE and GNOME is the pox on both their
  houses; I don't run desktops, I run applications.  
 
 It's just that most people prefer a unified look and feel, rather than 
 each application inventing the same things in a different and 
 incompatible way.  This is why DEs are so popular.

There's more to a DE than that. On as multitasking system, applications
are not run in isolation. A integrated system allows applications to
work together rather than just running at the same time.


-- 
Neil Bothwick

This tagline is baroque; please call Bach.


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

[gentoo-user] Re: OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment

2012-06-17 Thread Nikos Chantziaras


On 18/06/12 00:33, Michael Mol wrote:

On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 5:17 PM, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote:

On 17/06/12 22:36, Walter Dnes wrote:


On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 11:52:48AM -0500, Canek Pel??ez Vald??s wrote


In my humble opinion, you should use whatever you actually like. You
don't like GNOME? Then don't use it; and if you used it before and
don't like the new version, either get involver to get it fixed (for
whatever defintion of fixed you want), fork it (although maybe you
should first try Unity, MATE, or Cinnamon before), or go to another
desktop.



   My attitude towards KDE and GNOME is the pox on both their houses; I
don't run desktops, I run applications.



It's just that most people prefer a unified look and feel, rather than each
application inventing the same things in a different and incompatible way.
  This is why DEs are so popular.


We had a unified look and feel...but nobody liked that particular Motif. ;)


That was a corporate Unix thing though, not desktop Linux.  Good 
riddance :-P

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment

2012-06-17 Thread Volker Armin Hemmann

Am Sonntag, 17. Juni 2012, 17:33:58 schrieb Michael Mol:
 On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 5:17 PM, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote:
  On 17/06/12 22:36, Walter Dnes wrote:
  On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 11:52:48AM -0500, Canek Pel??ez Vald??s wrote
  
  In my humble opinion, you should use whatever you actually like. You
  don't like GNOME? Then don't use it; and if you used it before and
  don't like the new version, either get involver to get it fixed (for
  whatever defintion of fixed you want), fork it (although maybe you
  should first try Unity, MATE, or Cinnamon before), or go to another
  desktop.
  
My attitude towards KDE and GNOME is the pox on both their houses; I
  don't run desktops, I run applications.
  
  It's just that most people prefer a unified look and feel, rather than
  each
  application inventing the same things in a different and incompatible way.
   This is why DEs are so popular.
 
 We had a unified look and feel...but nobody liked that particular Motif. ;)

and it wasn't even that unified. And certainly not the feel with every 
application reacting differently to some keypress.


-- 
#163933

[gentoo-user] Alternatives to the gnome-system-monitor panel applet?

2012-06-17 Thread walt

(I considered posting this into the Linus-bashing-gnome3 thread, then
I decided against it :)

There are tons of stuff in gnome(any version) that I don't need, but
for many years I've stuck with gnome for one, maybe silly, reason.

The gnome-system-monitor applet displays graphs of processor use,
memory use, network load, disk activity, and swap usage in one tiny
panel applet about 5cm wide and 1cm high.

The important thing to me is that the graphs display the values of
all of those things over last 60 seconds or so.  And the graphs are
never hidden behind other windows because the panel is always visible.

Over the years I've caught $LARGE_NUMBER of bugs that show up as
inappropriate cpu load or excessive memory use or network traffic
or hard-disk activity.

Yes, that's my own fault because I choose to live on the bleeding
edge :)  I get pain and pleasure at the same time -- but I don't
need to explain that to this group :p

I'd probably be using xfce if not for that one panel applet.

Any suggestions?

[gentoo-user] Noisy dd operation

So, I'm using dd to write the Gentoo LiveDVD ISO directly to an SDHC
card. I was wondering why the transfer rate had slowed from 20MB/s to
6MB/s, so I ran 'sudo tail -f /var/log/messages' to see if there were
I/O errors slowing things down.

What I found was a flood-stream of message blocks that look like this:

Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458632] usb-storage:
queuecommand_lck called
Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458670] usb-storage: *** thread awakened.
Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458685] usb-storage: Command
WRITE_10 (10 bytes)
Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458687] usb-storage:  2a 00 00
2b f3 80 00 00 f0 00
Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458694] usb-storage:
rts51x_invoke_transport: ---
Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458697] usb-storage:
rts51x_invoke_transport: working scsi,
intf-pm_usage_cnt:1,power.usage:1
Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458701] usb-storage: Bulk
Command S 0x43425355 T 0x34ef L 122880 F 0 Trg 0 LUN 0 CL 10
Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458704] usb-storage:
usb_stor_bulk_transfer_buf: xfer 31 bytes
Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458759] usb-storage: Status
code 0; transferred 31/31
Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458761] usb-storage: -- transfer complete
Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458763] usb-storage: Bulk
command transfer result=0
Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458766] usb-storage:
usb_stor_bulk_transfer_sglist: xfer 122880 bytes, 18 entries
Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.486031] usb-storage: Status
code 0; transferred 122880/122880
Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.486035] usb-storage: -- transfer complete
Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.486037] usb-storage: Bulk data
transfer result 0x0
Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.486039] usb-storage: Attempting
to get CSW...
Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.486042] usb-storage:
usb_stor_bulk_transfer_buf: xfer 13 bytes
Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491787] usb-storage: Status
code 0; transferred 13/13
Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491790] usb-storage: -- transfer complete
Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491793] usb-storage: Bulk
status result = 0
Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491795] usb-storage: Bulk
Status S 0x53425355 T 0x34ef R 0 Stat 0x0
Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491800] usb-storage:
rts51x_invoke_transport: state:2
Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491802] usb-storage:
rts51x_modi_suspend_timer: ---, state:2
Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491805] usb-storage:
rts51x_modi_suspend_timer: ---
Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491807] usb-storage:
rts51x_invoke_transport: ---
Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491809] usb-storage: scsi cmd
done, result=0x0
Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491815] usb-storage: *** thread sleeping.

... Any idea what kernel configuration flag I may have enabled to
cause these to be continually generated? My first guess would be
something like 'kernel lock debugging'...if that's what I'm seeing
here, where would I go to file a bug report against the usb-storage
subsystem?

-- 
:wq

Re: [gentoo-user] Alternatives to the gnome-system-monitor panel applet?

On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 6:17 PM, walt w41...@gmail.com wrote:
 (I considered posting this into the Linus-bashing-gnome3 thread, then
 I decided against it :)

 There are tons of stuff in gnome(any version) that I don't need, but
 for many years I've stuck with gnome for one, maybe silly, reason.

 The gnome-system-monitor applet displays graphs of processor use,
 memory use, network load, disk activity, and swap usage in one tiny
 panel applet about 5cm wide and 1cm high.

 The important thing to me is that the graphs display the values of
 all of those things over last 60 seconds or so.  And the graphs are
 never hidden behind other windows because the panel is always visible.

 Over the years I've caught $LARGE_NUMBER of bugs that show up as
 inappropriate cpu load or excessive memory use or network traffic
 or hard-disk activity.

 Yes, that's my own fault because I choose to live on the bleeding
 edge :)  I get pain and pleasure at the same time -- but I don't
 need to explain that to this group :p

 I'd probably be using xfce if not for that one panel applet.

 Any suggestions?

https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/120/system-monitor/

Pretty similar to the GNOME 2 version. Or

https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/9/systemmonitor/

If you want it a little large and visible when pressing the windows key.

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México

Re: [gentoo-user] Noisy dd operation

2012-06-17 Thread Alan McKinnon

On Sun, 17 Jun 2012 19:27:36 -0400
Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote:

 So, I'm using dd to write the Gentoo LiveDVD ISO directly to an SDHC
 card. I was wondering why the transfer rate had slowed from 20MB/s to
 6MB/s, so I ran 'sudo tail -f /var/log/messages' to see if there were
 I/O errors slowing things down.
 
 What I found was a flood-stream of message blocks that look like this:
 
 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458632] usb-storage:
 queuecommand_lck called
 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458670] usb-storage: ***
 thread awakened. Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458685]
 usb-storage: Command WRITE_10 (10 bytes)
 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458687] usb-storage:  2a 00 00
 2b f3 80 00 00 f0 00
 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458694] usb-storage:
 rts51x_invoke_transport: ---
 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458697] usb-storage:
 rts51x_invoke_transport: working scsi,
 intf-pm_usage_cnt:1,power.usage:1
 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458701] usb-storage: Bulk
 Command S 0x43425355 T 0x34ef L 122880 F 0 Trg 0 LUN 0 CL 10
 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458704] usb-storage:
 usb_stor_bulk_transfer_buf: xfer 31 bytes
 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458759] usb-storage: Status
 code 0; transferred 31/31
 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458761] usb-storage: --
 transfer complete Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458763]
 usb-storage: Bulk command transfer result=0
 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.458766] usb-storage:
 usb_stor_bulk_transfer_sglist: xfer 122880 bytes, 18 entries
 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.486031] usb-storage: Status
 code 0; transferred 122880/122880
 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.486035] usb-storage: --
 transfer complete Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.486037]
 usb-storage: Bulk data transfer result 0x0
 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.486039] usb-storage: Attempting
 to get CSW...
 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.486042] usb-storage:
 usb_stor_bulk_transfer_buf: xfer 13 bytes
 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491787] usb-storage: Status
 code 0; transferred 13/13
 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491790] usb-storage: --
 transfer complete Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491793]
 usb-storage: Bulk status result = 0
 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491795] usb-storage: Bulk
 Status S 0x53425355 T 0x34ef R 0 Stat 0x0
 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491800] usb-storage:
 rts51x_invoke_transport: state:2
 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491802] usb-storage:
 rts51x_modi_suspend_timer: ---, state:2
 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491805] usb-storage:
 rts51x_modi_suspend_timer: ---
 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491807] usb-storage:
 rts51x_invoke_transport: ---
 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491809] usb-storage: scsi cmd
 done, result=0x0
 Jun 17 19:21:18 saffron kernel: [39023.491815] usb-storage: ***
 thread sleeping.
 
 ... Any idea what kernel configuration flag I may have enabled to
 cause these to be continually generated? My first guess would be
 something like 'kernel lock debugging'...if that's what I'm seeing
 here, where would I go to file a bug report against the usb-storage
 subsystem?
 

6M is what you should expect from a good Class 6 SDHC card, and those
are quite rare in consumer shops (few carry better than Class 4 in my
experience). Writes start very fast (it's going into the kernel buffer)
then gradually slow down to the card's actual speed, which is what you
appear to be seeing.

20M write speed would be a Class 20, which doesn't exist yet :-)


But what is your actual query? About the write speed?

Or about the presence of the messages?



-- 
Alan McKinnnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] OT: 'Best' Desktop Environment

On Jun 17, 2012 11:57 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés can...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sun, Jun 17, 2012 at 4:42 AM, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote:
  So, while we're meta-discussing Linus' rant on Gnome3, here's an article
  from TechRadar exploring the usability of the leading Linux desktop
  environments.
 
 
http://www.techradar.com/news/software/operating-systems/whats-the-best-linux-desktop-environment-1045280
 
  Summary: Try the latest KDE. You might get pleasantly surprised.

 In my humble opinion, you should use whatever you actually like. You
 don't like GNOME? Then don't use it; and if you used it before and
 don't like the new version, either get involver to get it fixed (for
 whatever defintion of fixed you want), fork it (although maybe you
 should first try Unity, MATE, or Cinnamon before), or go to another
 desktop.

 I like GNOME 3, therefore I use it. I like systemd, therefore I use
 it. I like Emacs, therefore I use it. If someone else wants to use
 KDE, OpenRC, and Vim, it's none of my business. To each his own.

 There is no best desktop environment. There are only preferences.


Agree. Which is why I wrote the word Best between single quotes. The
whole sentence itself comes from the original title of the article; the
single quotes are mine.

Rgds,

Re: [gentoo-user] Noisy dd operation