Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[Alan McKinnon]

On 25/08/2017 09:21, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Thursday, August 24, 2017 11:12:52 PM CEST Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> On 24/08/2017 22:20, J. Roeleveld wrote:
>>> On Thursday, August 24, 2017 9:35:23 PM CEST Dale wrote:
 Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 24/08/2017 18:41, Dale wrote:
>> J. Roeleveld wrote:
>>> On 24 August 2017 17:15:25 GMT+02:00, Alan McKinnon
>>>
>>>  wrote:
 Thunderbird.

 I have no formatting or storage problems as local mail is kept in
 dovecot imap folders and every client out there can read them. MUA
 incompatibilities just do not happen to me anymore.

 I prefer my MUA to be a reader and an editor and a sender and a
 fetcher.
 Never a storer.
>>>
>>> I use Cyrus IMAP for storage and postfix for SMTP.
>>> My mail clients only use IMAP and SMTP to my own server.
>>>
>>> With multiple devices, local storage makes no sense.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Joost
>>
>> I store mine locally because I search them when I run into a issue.
>> I've got emails going back to 2006.  Even if my internet is down, at
>> least I can search old list emails to see if I can find a clue to fix
>> what I'm running into.  Of course when you do that, you run into this:
>>
>> root@fireball / # du -shc
>> /home/dale/.mozilla/seamonkey/q6o6ulhz.default/Mail/
>> 3.9G/home/dale/.mozilla/seamonkey/q6o6ulhz.default/Mail/
>> 3.9Gtotal
>> root@fireball / #
>
> 4G is that all???
>
> pressed for space much? :-)

 I don't recall the limits on gmail but I know sometimes, I have to go
 clean house on the google web mail site itself.  It is supposed to
 delete after downloading but sometimes it doesn't for some reason.  Who
 knows.
>>>
>>> GMail used to be at 1GB when they started. Already back then that would
>>> not
>>> have been enough for me. My mailstore has been cleaned up occasionally
>>> (spam and alert-mails being cleaned up regularly):
>>>
>>> mailstore1 ~ # du -sh /var/spool/imap/j/user/joost
>>> 42G /var/spool/imap/j/user/joost
>>>
>>> (This is only my personal email, the email archive of my wife and the
>>> shared stuff isn't in this)
>>
>> If I let them, the eejits running the telco where I work would dump that
>> much mail in my inbox yearly![1] But it's Office 365[2] and they pay, so
>> I don't care - stupid must feel pain[3]
> 
> Office365... company I work for uses that.
> We got bought by another company that migrated over last week...
> 
> I STILL have 2 seperate accounts, good thing Office365 supports POP3. I'll do 
> the integration myself.
> 
>> [1] The eejits all feel so important they HAVE TO announce to the whole
>> company as a mail every change in every procedure, every new
>> appointment, every marketing splurb and every event being held. All in
>> HTML with pictures and shit, and giant sigs. And half the eejit
>> recipients feel the need to reply to all saying only "Ooooh! shiny!"
> 
> Let me guess, there is also the obligatory disclaimer about how the email is 
> only for the intended recipient in lawyer-speak which means every email gets 
> at least twice the size (for most emails, that text is actually 80-90% of the 
> entire volume.

Bingo. Yeah that.

But see, there's a problem with the lawyer speak. Any mail in my inbox
was addressed to alan.mckin...@example.com, which is me, and that
automatically makes me the correct recipient. I cannot know who the
intended recipient is, because I can't divine the sender's intent, so I
must go by the recipient address. And that is always me

> 
>> [2] Which has still to learn the trick of how to delete all attachments
>> except the first copt>
> Always useful. I got filesystem compression enabled for the mailstore, which 
> works quite well:
> san1 ~ # zfs get all zdata/services/mailstore1/imapmail | grep compressratio  
>   
>
> zdata/services/mailstore1/imapmail  compressratio 1.25x   
>
> zdata/services/mailstore1/imapmail  refcompressratio  1.31x

On second thoughts, Office365 does de-dup, which works amazingly well
for corporate mailstores. One real copy (the first) of each disk block
in the sig, and 10,000 pointers to it :-)

> 
>> [3] In this case, I'd be willing to
>> s/pain/enormous amounts of pain, on shaming youtube video/g
> 
> Don't forget to share the link to that video...

I don't have it yet, but for a good giggle meanwhile, search YouTube for
"7 parallel green lines"

What a hoot!
-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[Mick]

On Friday, 25 August 2017 08:21:53 BST J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Thursday, August 24, 2017 11:12:52 PM CEST Alan McKinnon wrote:

> > [3] In this case, I'd be willing to
> > s/pain/enormous amounts of pain, on shaming youtube video/g
> 
> Don't forget to share the link to that video...
> 
> --
> Joost

It'll go viral!  :-)

Meanwhile, here's an example of the sort of MSWindows mailers I was talking 
about.  It states it's multipart, OK nothing wrong with that.  Then, 
supposedly the text/plain follows, or ... does it?!

Subject: Confirmation of your order: A3338348521
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 
boundary="=_Part_3229_1398402695.1503664073222"
X-ATG-MailingId: 374481625

 
--=_Part_3229_1398402695.1503664073222
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

/* Client-specific Styles */ #outlook a { padding: 0; } /* Force
Outlook to provide a "view in browser" menu link. */ body { width:
100% !important; -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%; -ms-text-size-adjust:
100%; margin: 0; padding: 0; background-color: #fbfbfb; } /* Prevent
Webkit and Windows Mobile platforms from changing default font sizes,
while not breaking desktop design. */ .ExternalClass { width: 100%; }
/* Force Hotmail to display emails at full width */
===

Seriously?  Outlook needs all this formatting just to display plain text? o_O

I bet Windows Live (or whatever it's called this semester) will show it just 
fine.  :-p 

-- 
Regards,
Mick

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[J. Roeleveld]

On Thursday, August 24, 2017 11:12:52 PM CEST Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 24/08/2017 22:20, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > On Thursday, August 24, 2017 9:35:23 PM CEST Dale wrote:
> >> Alan McKinnon wrote:
> >>> On 24/08/2017 18:41, Dale wrote:
>  J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > On 24 August 2017 17:15:25 GMT+02:00, Alan McKinnon
> > 
> >  wrote:
> >> Thunderbird.
> >> 
> >> I have no formatting or storage problems as local mail is kept in
> >> dovecot imap folders and every client out there can read them. MUA
> >> incompatibilities just do not happen to me anymore.
> >> 
> >> I prefer my MUA to be a reader and an editor and a sender and a
> >> fetcher.
> >> Never a storer.
> > 
> > I use Cyrus IMAP for storage and postfix for SMTP.
> > My mail clients only use IMAP and SMTP to my own server.
> > 
> > With multiple devices, local storage makes no sense.
> > 
> > --
> > Joost
>  
>  I store mine locally because I search them when I run into a issue.
>  I've got emails going back to 2006.  Even if my internet is down, at
>  least I can search old list emails to see if I can find a clue to fix
>  what I'm running into.  Of course when you do that, you run into this:
>  
>  root@fireball / # du -shc
>  /home/dale/.mozilla/seamonkey/q6o6ulhz.default/Mail/
>  3.9G/home/dale/.mozilla/seamonkey/q6o6ulhz.default/Mail/
>  3.9Gtotal
>  root@fireball / #
> >>> 
> >>> 4G is that all???
> >>> 
> >>> pressed for space much? :-)
> >> 
> >> I don't recall the limits on gmail but I know sometimes, I have to go
> >> clean house on the google web mail site itself.  It is supposed to
> >> delete after downloading but sometimes it doesn't for some reason.  Who
> >> knows.
> > 
> > GMail used to be at 1GB when they started. Already back then that would
> > not
> > have been enough for me. My mailstore has been cleaned up occasionally
> > (spam and alert-mails being cleaned up regularly):
> > 
> > mailstore1 ~ # du -sh /var/spool/imap/j/user/joost
> > 42G /var/spool/imap/j/user/joost
> > 
> > (This is only my personal email, the email archive of my wife and the
> > shared stuff isn't in this)
> 
> If I let them, the eejits running the telco where I work would dump that
> much mail in my inbox yearly![1] But it's Office 365[2] and they pay, so
> I don't care - stupid must feel pain[3]

Office365... company I work for uses that.
We got bought by another company that migrated over last week...

I STILL have 2 seperate accounts, good thing Office365 supports POP3. I'll do 
the integration myself.

> [1] The eejits all feel so important they HAVE TO announce to the whole
> company as a mail every change in every procedure, every new
> appointment, every marketing splurb and every event being held. All in
> HTML with pictures and shit, and giant sigs. And half the eejit
> recipients feel the need to reply to all saying only "Ooooh! shiny!"

Let me guess, there is also the obligatory disclaimer about how the email is 
only for the intended recipient in lawyer-speak which means every email gets 
at least twice the size (for most emails, that text is actually 80-90% of the 
entire volume.

> [2] Which has still to learn the trick of how to delete all attachments
> except the first copy

Always useful. I got filesystem compression enabled for the mailstore, which 
works quite well:
san1 ~ # zfs get all zdata/services/mailstore1/imapmail | grep compressratio

   
zdata/services/mailstore1/imapmail  compressratio 1.25x 
 
zdata/services/mailstore1/imapmail  refcompressratio  1.31x

> [3] In this case, I'd be willing to
> s/pain/enormous amounts of pain, on shaming youtube video/g

Don't forget to share the link to that video...

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[Dale]

wabe wrote:
> wabe  wrote:
>
>> Dale  wrote:
>>
>>> OK.  I'm nosy now.  Can you folks share what email software you are
>>> using?  Is it GUI based etc?   Stable and doesn't change settings to
>>> something stupid like Seamonkey/thunderbird just did. 
>>>
>>> To put it simply, I'm considering switching away from Seamonkey here
>>> and just may do it.  One thing I'd like tho, being able to transfer
>>> my emails from Seamonkey to whatever new program I'm using.  When I
>>> switched from Kmail, I was able to do that, can't recall how now.  
>> My first Email Client under Linux was Sylpheed. Much later I switched 
>> to Kmail. Then to Thunderbird. And finally to Claws Mail. This is my 
>> favorite. And as long as the developers don't disimprove it I think
>> I will stick with it. It has fantastic filter options and all what I
>> need. It's fast and stable and has no problems to handle many
>> thousands of mails.
> Sorry. Have to correct what I said. My first Email Client was Xfmail
> and not Sylpheed.
>
> --
> Regards
> wabe
>
> .
>

You know, that looks a LOT like Seamonkey.  Interesting.  May have to
look into that later on when I have some spare time. 

Thanks for the info.  ;-)

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[Dale]

J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Thursday, August 24, 2017 6:41:58 PM CEST Dale wrote:
>
>> root@fireball / # du -shc
>> /home/dale/.mozilla/seamonkey/q6o6ulhz.default/Mail/
>> 3.9G/home/dale/.mozilla/seamonkey/q6o6ulhz.default/Mail/
>> 3.9Gtotal
>> root@fireball / #
> Mine is at about 40G

That's big.  O_O


>
>> I use folders to filter my emails.  Gentoo for example has a folder for
>> each list, one for -user, one for -dev etc etc.  Since most are text
>> only, they are tiny things anyway.  I also have folders for my financial
>> stuff too.  Few emails outside of spam stay in the regular inbox.  Any
>> email that doesn't end up in a folder is suspicious to me.  I'd never
>> click or tell it to show remote content on any email that is in the
>> inbox.  Rarely do it on one that is filtered.
> Same here, using sieve-scripts on the server. Eg. mail-filtering is not 
> dependent on the MUA either.
>
>> I switched from Kmail long ago.  I can't recall what I ran into that
>> made me change tho.
> My guess is akonadi. It's what most people don't like, but tbh, I do 
> understand why it was done and after getting it working with PostgreSQL, I 
> haven't had to rebuild it.
>
> --
> Joost
>

Actually, I switched back in the KDE3 days.  If I recall correctly, it
had something to do with clicking links in emails and them not opening
in Seamonkey but in Konqueror and I couldn't get it to do otherwise. 
That was a long time ago so I'm not real sure on that. 

I disabled a lot of KDE4/5 stuff.  Most of it, I just don't need.  Been
thinking about switching to Mate as my desktop.  Right now, it's
installed but when I select Mate at the login screen, I get KDE instead.
I just haven't had time to figure out why it does that.  Heck, I been
putting out kale and black eye pea seeds and watering the area of woods
the past few hours.  I'm feeding the deer.  I need a trail camera out
there.  I found out deer like, love, 20% range cubes.  Supposed to be
for cows but deer love it.  Healthy for them too.  Yummy!!

Anyway, as I get older, I just want crap to work.  :/

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[Alan McKinnon]

On 24/08/2017 22:20, J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On Thursday, August 24, 2017 9:35:23 PM CEST Dale wrote:
>> Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>> On 24/08/2017 18:41, Dale wrote:
 J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On 24 August 2017 17:15:25 GMT+02:00, Alan McKinnon 
>  wrote:
>> Thunderbird.
>>
>> I have no formatting or storage problems as local mail is kept in
>> dovecot imap folders and every client out there can read them. MUA
>> incompatibilities just do not happen to me anymore.
>>
>> I prefer my MUA to be a reader and an editor and a sender and a
>> fetcher.
>> Never a storer.
>
> I use Cyrus IMAP for storage and postfix for SMTP.
> My mail clients only use IMAP and SMTP to my own server.
>
> With multiple devices, local storage makes no sense.
>
> --
> Joost

 I store mine locally because I search them when I run into a issue.
 I've got emails going back to 2006.  Even if my internet is down, at
 least I can search old list emails to see if I can find a clue to fix
 what I'm running into.  Of course when you do that, you run into this:

 root@fireball / # du -shc
 /home/dale/.mozilla/seamonkey/q6o6ulhz.default/Mail/
 3.9G/home/dale/.mozilla/seamonkey/q6o6ulhz.default/Mail/
 3.9Gtotal
 root@fireball / #
>>>
>>> 4G is that all???
>>>
>>> pressed for space much? :-)
>>
>> I don't recall the limits on gmail but I know sometimes, I have to go
>> clean house on the google web mail site itself.  It is supposed to
>> delete after downloading but sometimes it doesn't for some reason.  Who
>> knows.
> 
> GMail used to be at 1GB when they started. Already back then that would not 
> have been enough for me. My mailstore has been cleaned up occasionally (spam 
> and alert-mails being cleaned up regularly):
> 
> mailstore1 ~ # du -sh /var/spool/imap/j/user/joost
> 42G /var/spool/imap/j/user/joost
> 
> (This is only my personal email, the email archive of my wife and the shared 
> stuff isn't in this)

If I let them, the eejits running the telco where I work would dump that
much mail in my inbox yearly![1] But it's Office 365[2] and they pay, so
I don't care - stupid must feel pain[3]

[1] The eejits all feel so important they HAVE TO announce to the whole
company as a mail every change in every procedure, every new
appointment, every marketing splurb and every event being held. All in
HTML with pictures and shit, and giant sigs. And half the eejit
recipients feel the need to reply to all saying only "Ooooh! shiny!"

[2] Which has still to learn the trick of how to delete all attachments
except the first copy

[3] In this case, I'd be willing to
s/pain/enormous amounts of pain, on shaming youtube video/g

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[wabe]

wabe  wrote:

> Dale  wrote:
> 
> > OK.  I'm nosy now.  Can you folks share what email software you are
> > using?  Is it GUI based etc?   Stable and doesn't change settings to
> > something stupid like Seamonkey/thunderbird just did. 
> > 
> > To put it simply, I'm considering switching away from Seamonkey here
> > and just may do it.  One thing I'd like tho, being able to transfer
> > my emails from Seamonkey to whatever new program I'm using.  When I
> > switched from Kmail, I was able to do that, can't recall how now.  
> 
> My first Email Client under Linux was Sylpheed. Much later I switched 
> to Kmail. Then to Thunderbird. And finally to Claws Mail. This is my 
> favorite. And as long as the developers don't disimprove it I think
> I will stick with it. It has fantastic filter options and all what I
> need. It's fast and stable and has no problems to handle many
> thousands of mails.

Sorry. Have to correct what I said. My first Email Client was Xfmail
and not Sylpheed.

--
Regards
wabe

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[wabe]

"J. Roeleveld"  wrote:

> On Thursday, August 24, 2017 9:35:23 PM CEST Dale wrote:
> > Alan McKinnon wrote:  
> > > On 24/08/2017 18:41, Dale wrote:  
> > >> J. Roeleveld wrote:  
> > >>> On 24 August 2017 17:15:25 GMT+02:00, Alan McKinnon   
>  wrote:
> >  Thunderbird.
> >  
> >  I have no formatting or storage problems as local mail is kept
> >  in dovecot imap folders and every client out there can read
> >  them. MUA incompatibilities just do not happen to me anymore.
> >  
> >  I prefer my MUA to be a reader and an editor and a sender and a
> >  fetcher.
> >  Never a storer.  
> > >>> 
> > >>> I use Cyrus IMAP for storage and postfix for SMTP.
> > >>> My mail clients only use IMAP and SMTP to my own server.
> > >>> 
> > >>> With multiple devices, local storage makes no sense.
> > >>> 
> > >>> --
> > >>> Joost  
> > >> 
> > >> I store mine locally because I search them when I run into a
> > >> issue. I've got emails going back to 2006.  Even if my internet
> > >> is down, at least I can search old list emails to see if I can
> > >> find a clue to fix what I'm running into.  Of course when you do
> > >> that, you run into this:
> > >> 
> > >> root@fireball / # du -shc
> > >> /home/dale/.mozilla/seamonkey/q6o6ulhz.default/Mail/
> > >> 3.9G/home/dale/.mozilla/seamonkey/q6o6ulhz.default/Mail/
> > >> 3.9Gtotal
> > >> root@fireball / #  
> > > 
> > > 4G is that all???
> > > 
> > > pressed for space much? :-)  
> > 
> > I don't recall the limits on gmail but I know sometimes, I have to
> > go clean house on the google web mail site itself.  It is supposed
> > to delete after downloading but sometimes it doesn't for some
> > reason.  Who knows.  
> 
> GMail used to be at 1GB when they started. Already back then that
> would not have been enough for me. My mailstore has been cleaned up
> occasionally (spam and alert-mails being cleaned up regularly):
> 
> mailstore1 ~ # du -sh /var/spool/imap/j/user/joost
> 42G /var/spool/imap/j/user/joost

That's really a lot. :-) And I thought mine is huge.

~ $ du -hs Mail/
14G Mail/

--
Regards
wabe

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[wabe]

Dale  wrote:

> OK.  I'm nosy now.  Can you folks share what email software you are
> using?  Is it GUI based etc?   Stable and doesn't change settings to
> something stupid like Seamonkey/thunderbird just did. 
> 
> To put it simply, I'm considering switching away from Seamonkey here
> and just may do it.  One thing I'd like tho, being able to transfer my
> emails from Seamonkey to whatever new program I'm using.  When I
> switched from Kmail, I was able to do that, can't recall how now.

My first Email Client under Linux was Sylpheed. Much later I switched 
to Kmail. Then to Thunderbird. And finally to Claws Mail. This is my 
favorite. And as long as the developers don't disimprove it I think
I will stick with it. It has fantastic filter options and all what I
need. It's fast and stable and has no problems to handle many thousands 
of mails.

--
Regards
wabe

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[J. Roeleveld]

On Thursday, August 24, 2017 9:35:23 PM CEST Dale wrote:
> Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > On 24/08/2017 18:41, Dale wrote:
> >> J. Roeleveld wrote:
> >>> On 24 August 2017 17:15:25 GMT+02:00, Alan McKinnon 
 wrote:
>  Thunderbird.
>  
>  I have no formatting or storage problems as local mail is kept in
>  dovecot imap folders and every client out there can read them. MUA
>  incompatibilities just do not happen to me anymore.
>  
>  I prefer my MUA to be a reader and an editor and a sender and a
>  fetcher.
>  Never a storer.
> >>> 
> >>> I use Cyrus IMAP for storage and postfix for SMTP.
> >>> My mail clients only use IMAP and SMTP to my own server.
> >>> 
> >>> With multiple devices, local storage makes no sense.
> >>> 
> >>> --
> >>> Joost
> >> 
> >> I store mine locally because I search them when I run into a issue.
> >> I've got emails going back to 2006.  Even if my internet is down, at
> >> least I can search old list emails to see if I can find a clue to fix
> >> what I'm running into.  Of course when you do that, you run into this:
> >> 
> >> root@fireball / # du -shc
> >> /home/dale/.mozilla/seamonkey/q6o6ulhz.default/Mail/
> >> 3.9G/home/dale/.mozilla/seamonkey/q6o6ulhz.default/Mail/
> >> 3.9Gtotal
> >> root@fireball / #
> > 
> > 4G is that all???
> > 
> > pressed for space much? :-)
> 
> I don't recall the limits on gmail but I know sometimes, I have to go
> clean house on the google web mail site itself.  It is supposed to
> delete after downloading but sometimes it doesn't for some reason.  Who
> knows.

GMail used to be at 1GB when they started. Already back then that would not 
have been enough for me. My mailstore has been cleaned up occasionally (spam 
and alert-mails being cleaned up regularly):

mailstore1 ~ # du -sh /var/spool/imap/j/user/joost
42G /var/spool/imap/j/user/joost

(This is only my personal email, the email archive of my wife and the shared 
stuff isn't in this)

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[J. Roeleveld]

On Thursday, August 24, 2017 6:41:58 PM CEST Dale wrote:
> J. Roeleveld wrote:
> > On 24 August 2017 17:15:25 GMT+02:00, Alan McKinnon 
 wrote:
> >> Thunderbird.
> >> 
> >> I have no formatting or storage problems as local mail is kept in
> >> dovecot imap folders and every client out there can read them. MUA
> >> incompatibilities just do not happen to me anymore.
> >> 
> >> I prefer my MUA to be a reader and an editor and a sender and a
> >> fetcher.
> >> Never a storer.
> > 
> > I use Cyrus IMAP for storage and postfix for SMTP.
> > My mail clients only use IMAP and SMTP to my own server.
> > 
> > With multiple devices, local storage makes no sense.
> > 
> > --
> > Joost
> 
> I store mine locally because I search them when I run into a issue.
> I've got emails going back to 2006.  Even if my internet is down, at
> least I can search old list emails to see if I can find a clue to fix
> what I'm running into.  Of course when you do that, you run into this:

Cyrus supports server-side search using a local index. Makes searching through 
emails really fast for webmail clients.
Kmail uses akonadi+co to build an index and searching through that goes quite 
well. Current "unstable" versions seem quite nice. I do use PostgreSQL as 
backend though.

> root@fireball / # du -shc
> /home/dale/.mozilla/seamonkey/q6o6ulhz.default/Mail/
> 3.9G/home/dale/.mozilla/seamonkey/q6o6ulhz.default/Mail/
> 3.9Gtotal
> root@fireball / #

Mine is at about 40G

> I use folders to filter my emails.  Gentoo for example has a folder for
> each list, one for -user, one for -dev etc etc.  Since most are text
> only, they are tiny things anyway.  I also have folders for my financial
> stuff too.  Few emails outside of spam stay in the regular inbox.  Any
> email that doesn't end up in a folder is suspicious to me.  I'd never
> click or tell it to show remote content on any email that is in the
> inbox.  Rarely do it on one that is filtered.

Same here, using sieve-scripts on the server. Eg. mail-filtering is not 
dependent on the MUA either.

> I switched from Kmail long ago.  I can't recall what I ran into that
> made me change tho.

My guess is akonadi. It's what most people don't like, but tbh, I do 
understand why it was done and after getting it working with PostgreSQL, I 
haven't had to rebuild it.

--
Joost

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[Dale]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 24/08/2017 18:41, Dale wrote:
>> J. Roeleveld wrote:
>>> On 24 August 2017 17:15:25 GMT+02:00, Alan McKinnon 
>>>  wrote:
 Thunderbird.

 I have no formatting or storage problems as local mail is kept in
 dovecot imap folders and every client out there can read them. MUA
 incompatibilities just do not happen to me anymore.

 I prefer my MUA to be a reader and an editor and a sender and a
 fetcher.
 Never a storer.
>>> I use Cyrus IMAP for storage and postfix for SMTP.
>>> My mail clients only use IMAP and SMTP to my own server.
>>>
>>> With multiple devices, local storage makes no sense.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Joost
>> I store mine locally because I search them when I run into a issue. 
>> I've got emails going back to 2006.  Even if my internet is down, at
>> least I can search old list emails to see if I can find a clue to fix
>> what I'm running into.  Of course when you do that, you run into this:
>>
>> root@fireball / # du -shc
>> /home/dale/.mozilla/seamonkey/q6o6ulhz.default/Mail/
>> 3.9G/home/dale/.mozilla/seamonkey/q6o6ulhz.default/Mail/
>> 3.9Gtotal
>> root@fireball / # 
> 4G is that all???
>
> pressed for space much? :-)
>

I don't recall the limits on gmail but I know sometimes, I have to go
clean house on the google web mail site itself.  It is supposed to
delete after downloading but sometimes it doesn't for some reason.  Who
knows. 

At one point, I had them going back to 2003 which is when I built my
first rig. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[Alan McKinnon]

On 24/08/2017 18:41, Dale wrote:
> J. Roeleveld wrote:
>> On 24 August 2017 17:15:25 GMT+02:00, Alan McKinnon 
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Thunderbird.
>>>
>>> I have no formatting or storage problems as local mail is kept in
>>> dovecot imap folders and every client out there can read them. MUA
>>> incompatibilities just do not happen to me anymore.
>>>
>>> I prefer my MUA to be a reader and an editor and a sender and a
>>> fetcher.
>>> Never a storer.
>> I use Cyrus IMAP for storage and postfix for SMTP.
>> My mail clients only use IMAP and SMTP to my own server.
>>
>> With multiple devices, local storage makes no sense.
>>
>> --
>> Joost
> 
> I store mine locally because I search them when I run into a issue. 
> I've got emails going back to 2006.  Even if my internet is down, at
> least I can search old list emails to see if I can find a clue to fix
> what I'm running into.  Of course when you do that, you run into this:
> 
> root@fireball / # du -shc
> /home/dale/.mozilla/seamonkey/q6o6ulhz.default/Mail/
> 3.9G/home/dale/.mozilla/seamonkey/q6o6ulhz.default/Mail/
> 3.9Gtotal
> root@fireball / # 

4G is that all???

pressed for space much? :-)



-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[Alan McKinnon]

On 24/08/2017 19:54, Mick wrote:
> On Thursday, 24 August 2017 16:59:21 BST J. Roeleveld wrote:
>> On 24 August 2017 16:50:32 GMT+02:00, Dale  wrote:
> 
>>> OK.  I'm nosy now.  Can you folks share what email software you are
>>> using?  Is it GUI based etc?   Stable and doesn't change settings to
>>> something stupid like Seamonkey/thunderbird just did.
>>>
>>> To put it simply, I'm considering switching away from Seamonkey here
>>> and
>>> just may do it.  One thing I'd like tho, being able to transfer my
>>> emails from Seamonkey to whatever new program I'm using.  When I
>>> switched from Kmail, I was able to do that, can't recall how now.
>>>
>>> Just curious as to my options here.  May as well learn some stuff while
>>> we on the topic.  ;-)
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Dale
>>>
>>> :-)  :-)
>>
>> Latest ~amd64 kmail (entire kontact suite) on my laptop and desktop.
>>
>> K9-mail on my phone
>>
>> Also using eGroupware for webmail access (along with calendar, addressbook
>> and few other things)
>>
>> All is GUI based.
>>
>> --
>> Joost
> 
> I've used Kmail almost non-stop since 2003.
> 
> In various times I tried to escape this affliction by trying out:

I feel your pain.

I also have very fond memories of kmail with KDE-3, best MUA I ever
used. The rest of KDE's look and feel was pretty sucky tbh, and KDE-4
made huge inroads to fixing that, but kdepim and kmail never recovered
from that thing called akonadi. Good idea on paper, never worked in
practice.


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[Mick]

On Thursday, 24 August 2017 16:59:21 BST J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On 24 August 2017 16:50:32 GMT+02:00, Dale  wrote:

> >OK.  I'm nosy now.  Can you folks share what email software you are
> >using?  Is it GUI based etc?   Stable and doesn't change settings to
> >something stupid like Seamonkey/thunderbird just did.
> >
> >To put it simply, I'm considering switching away from Seamonkey here
> >and
> >just may do it.  One thing I'd like tho, being able to transfer my
> >emails from Seamonkey to whatever new program I'm using.  When I
> >switched from Kmail, I was able to do that, can't recall how now.
> >
> >Just curious as to my options here.  May as well learn some stuff while
> >we on the topic.  ;-)
> >
> >Thanks.
> >
> >Dale
> >
> >:-)  :-)
> 
> Latest ~amd64 kmail (entire kontact suite) on my laptop and desktop.
> 
> K9-mail on my phone
> 
> Also using eGroupware for webmail access (along with calendar, addressbook
> and few other things)
> 
> All is GUI based.
> 
> --
> Joost

I've used Kmail almost non-stop since 2003.

In various times I tried to escape this affliction by trying out:

T'bird
Opera's built in Mail client
Claws
Evolution
GNUmail
mutt

I must have tried others too, but forgot over the years.  I'm still lamenting 
the demise of KDE3 and all that came with it, including Kmail as it was then.  
I'm still using mutt occasionally, especially when I find myself on a console, 
although like most email apps (except for Kmail) I find mutt awkward and at 
times getting in the way of managing my email.  I don't blame mutt for this, 
but my addiction to the Kmail interface.

Almost everyone who seeks my advice these I direct to Thunderbird, unless I 
feel vindictive, in which case I tell them to try out Kmail.  :p

Enterprise users who have been programmed to work with MSWindows, I direct to 
Evolution.

Those who like tinkering and use keybindings for everything, I direct to mutt.

One of these days I may try again T'bird because it must have improved since 
the late 2000's (can it work with maildir now?)  I find Alan's solution of 
dovecot appealing, perhaps another project for me to look into during the Xmas 
break.

-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[Dale]

J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On 24 August 2017 17:15:25 GMT+02:00, Alan McKinnon  
> wrote:
>>
>> Thunderbird.
>>
>> I have no formatting or storage problems as local mail is kept in
>> dovecot imap folders and every client out there can read them. MUA
>> incompatibilities just do not happen to me anymore.
>>
>> I prefer my MUA to be a reader and an editor and a sender and a
>> fetcher.
>> Never a storer.
> I use Cyrus IMAP for storage and postfix for SMTP.
> My mail clients only use IMAP and SMTP to my own server.
>
> With multiple devices, local storage makes no sense.
>
> --
> Joost

I store mine locally because I search them when I run into a issue. 
I've got emails going back to 2006.  Even if my internet is down, at
least I can search old list emails to see if I can find a clue to fix
what I'm running into.  Of course when you do that, you run into this:

root@fireball / # du -shc
/home/dale/.mozilla/seamonkey/q6o6ulhz.default/Mail/
3.9G/home/dale/.mozilla/seamonkey/q6o6ulhz.default/Mail/
3.9Gtotal
root@fireball / # 

I use folders to filter my emails.  Gentoo for example has a folder for
each list, one for -user, one for -dev etc etc.  Since most are text
only, they are tiny things anyway.  I also have folders for my financial
stuff too.  Few emails outside of spam stay in the regular inbox.  Any
email that doesn't end up in a folder is suspicious to me.  I'd never
click or tell it to show remote content on any email that is in the
inbox.  Rarely do it on one that is filtered. 

I switched from Kmail long ago.  I can't recall what I ran into that
made me change tho.  Thunderbird is basically the same as I have now. 
I've read Seamonkey's email coding is the same as Thunderbird, just no
browser part.  Maybe that has changed.  I dunno. 

I hope this is making sense.  My eyes are having a rough day.  The text
looks like a blur.  Can't read much of anything.  :/ 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[J. Roeleveld]

On 24 August 2017 17:15:25 GMT+02:00, Alan McKinnon  
wrote:
>On 24/08/2017 16:50, Dale wrote:
>> Mick wrote:
>>> On Thursday, 24 August 2017 09:36:43 BST J. Roeleveld wrote:
>>>
 I can handle HTML emails and won't complain. (As long as they don't
>set some
 idiotic font or background colours)
>>> I don't mind messages which contain both formats and let the mail
>client 
>>> render the content according to the preferences of the recipient;
>i.e. a 
>>> message with:
>>>
>>> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>>>
>>> which contains:
>>>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain;
>>> and 
>>> Content-Type: text/html;
>>>
>>> However, I have found some mail clients, especially Microsoft web
>based 
>>> mailers, send a Base64 blob which *only* contains HTML.  I don't
>like 
>>> receiving these and depending on the sender I delete them.
>>>
>>>
 But top-posting when replying to emails makes for unnecessary
>difficult
 reading.

 --
 Joost
>>> Top-posting when the message is a threaded conversation does not
>help.  Some 
>>> mobile apps and webmail interfaces make it really difficult to
>respond inline, 
>>> so I don't mind being flexible on this matter.
>>>
>>> PS.  I like this list just as it is.  Plain text and no-top posting
>- thank 
>>> you.  :-)
>> 
>> 
>> OK.  I'm nosy now.  Can you folks share what email software you are
>> using?  Is it GUI based etc?   Stable and doesn't change settings to
>> something stupid like Seamonkey/thunderbird just did. 
>> 
>> To put it simply, I'm considering switching away from Seamonkey here
>and
>> just may do it.  One thing I'd like tho, being able to transfer my
>> emails from Seamonkey to whatever new program I'm using.  When I
>> switched from Kmail, I was able to do that, can't recall how now.
>> 
>> Just curious as to my options here.  May as well learn some stuff
>while
>> we on the topic.  ;-) 
>
>Thunderbird.
>
>I have no formatting or storage problems as local mail is kept in
>dovecot imap folders and every client out there can read them. MUA
>incompatibilities just do not happen to me anymore.
>
>I prefer my MUA to be a reader and an editor and a sender and a
>fetcher.
>Never a storer.

I use Cyrus IMAP for storage and postfix for SMTP.
My mail clients only use IMAP and SMTP to my own server.

With multiple devices, local storage makes no sense.

--
Joost
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[J. Roeleveld]

On 24 August 2017 16:50:32 GMT+02:00, Dale  wrote:
>Mick wrote:
>> On Thursday, 24 August 2017 09:36:43 BST J. Roeleveld wrote:
>>
>>> I can handle HTML emails and won't complain. (As long as they don't
>set some
>>> idiotic font or background colours)
>> I don't mind messages which contain both formats and let the mail
>client 
>> render the content according to the preferences of the recipient;
>i.e. a 
>> message with:
>>
>> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>>
>> which contains:
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;
>> and 
>> Content-Type: text/html;
>>
>> However, I have found some mail clients, especially Microsoft web
>based 
>> mailers, send a Base64 blob which *only* contains HTML.  I don't like
>
>> receiving these and depending on the sender I delete them.
>>
>>
>>> But top-posting when replying to emails makes for unnecessary
>difficult
>>> reading.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Joost
>> Top-posting when the message is a threaded conversation does not
>help.  Some 
>> mobile apps and webmail interfaces make it really difficult to
>respond inline, 
>> so I don't mind being flexible on this matter.
>>
>> PS.  I like this list just as it is.  Plain text and no-top posting -
>thank 
>> you.  :-)
>
>
>OK.  I'm nosy now.  Can you folks share what email software you are
>using?  Is it GUI based etc?   Stable and doesn't change settings to
>something stupid like Seamonkey/thunderbird just did. 
>
>To put it simply, I'm considering switching away from Seamonkey here
>and
>just may do it.  One thing I'd like tho, being able to transfer my
>emails from Seamonkey to whatever new program I'm using.  When I
>switched from Kmail, I was able to do that, can't recall how now.
>
>Just curious as to my options here.  May as well learn some stuff while
>we on the topic.  ;-) 
>
>Thanks.
>
>Dale
>
>:-)  :-)  

Latest ~amd64 kmail (entire kontact suite) on my laptop and desktop.

K9-mail on my phone

Also using eGroupware for webmail access (along with calendar, addressbook and 
few other things)

All is GUI based.

--
Joost
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[Alan McKinnon]

On 24/08/2017 16:50, Dale wrote:
> Mick wrote:
>> On Thursday, 24 August 2017 09:36:43 BST J. Roeleveld wrote:
>>
>>> I can handle HTML emails and won't complain. (As long as they don't set some
>>> idiotic font or background colours)
>> I don't mind messages which contain both formats and let the mail client 
>> render the content according to the preferences of the recipient; i.e. a 
>> message with:
>>
>> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>>
>> which contains:
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;
>> and 
>> Content-Type: text/html;
>>
>> However, I have found some mail clients, especially Microsoft web based 
>> mailers, send a Base64 blob which *only* contains HTML.  I don't like 
>> receiving these and depending on the sender I delete them.
>>
>>
>>> But top-posting when replying to emails makes for unnecessary difficult
>>> reading.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Joost
>> Top-posting when the message is a threaded conversation does not help.  Some 
>> mobile apps and webmail interfaces make it really difficult to respond 
>> inline, 
>> so I don't mind being flexible on this matter.
>>
>> PS.  I like this list just as it is.  Plain text and no-top posting - thank 
>> you.  :-)
> 
> 
> OK.  I'm nosy now.  Can you folks share what email software you are
> using?  Is it GUI based etc?   Stable and doesn't change settings to
> something stupid like Seamonkey/thunderbird just did. 
> 
> To put it simply, I'm considering switching away from Seamonkey here and
> just may do it.  One thing I'd like tho, being able to transfer my
> emails from Seamonkey to whatever new program I'm using.  When I
> switched from Kmail, I was able to do that, can't recall how now.
> 
> Just curious as to my options here.  May as well learn some stuff while
> we on the topic.  ;-) 

Thunderbird.

I have no formatting or storage problems as local mail is kept in
dovecot imap folders and every client out there can read them. MUA
incompatibilities just do not happen to me anymore.

I prefer my MUA to be a reader and an editor and a sender and a fetcher.
Never a storer.

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[Peter Humphrey]

On Thursday 24 August 2017 09:50:32 Dale wrote:
> Mick wrote:
> > On Thursday, 24 August 2017 09:36:43 BST J. Roeleveld wrote:
> >> I can handle HTML emails and won't complain. (As long as they don't set
> >> some idiotic font or background colours)
> > 
> > I don't mind messages which contain both formats and let the mail client
> > render the content according to the preferences of the recipient; i.e. a
> > message with:
> > 
> > Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> > 
> > which contains:
> > 
> > Content-Type: text/plain;
> > and
> > Content-Type: text/html;
> > 
> > However, I have found some mail clients, especially Microsoft web based
> > mailers, send a Base64 blob which *only* contains HTML.  I don't like
> > receiving these and depending on the sender I delete them.
> > 
> >> But top-posting when replying to emails makes for unnecessary difficult
> >> reading.
> >> 
> >> --
> >> Joost
> > 
> > Top-posting when the message is a threaded conversation does not help. 
> > Some mobile apps and webmail interfaces make it really difficult to
> > respond inline, so I don't mind being flexible on this matter.
> > 
> > PS.  I like this list just as it is.  Plain text and no-top posting -
> > thank you.  :-)
> 
> OK.  I'm nosy now.  Can you folks share what email software you are
> using?  Is it GUI based etc?   Stable and doesn't change settings to
> something stupid like Seamonkey/thunderbird just did.
> 
> To put it simply, I'm considering switching away from Seamonkey here and
> just may do it.  One thing I'd like tho, being able to transfer my
> emails from Seamonkey to whatever new program I'm using.  When I
> switched from Kmail, I was able to do that, can't recall how now.
> 
> Just curious as to my options here.  May as well learn some stuff while
> we on the topic.  ;-)

KMail here. It's easily the best e-mail client I've used, though it has 
suffered with obscure bugs. It can import Thunderbird/Mozilla local mails and 
folder structure. I don't know whether the latest version can do this, but 
version 4.14.32 can.

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[Dale]

Mick wrote:
> On Thursday, 24 August 2017 09:36:43 BST J. Roeleveld wrote:
>
>> I can handle HTML emails and won't complain. (As long as they don't set some
>> idiotic font or background colours)
> I don't mind messages which contain both formats and let the mail client 
> render the content according to the preferences of the recipient; i.e. a 
> message with:
>
> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>
> which contains:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> and 
> Content-Type: text/html;
>
> However, I have found some mail clients, especially Microsoft web based 
> mailers, send a Base64 blob which *only* contains HTML.  I don't like 
> receiving these and depending on the sender I delete them.
>
>
>> But top-posting when replying to emails makes for unnecessary difficult
>> reading.
>>
>> --
>> Joost
> Top-posting when the message is a threaded conversation does not help.  Some 
> mobile apps and webmail interfaces make it really difficult to respond 
> inline, 
> so I don't mind being flexible on this matter.
>
> PS.  I like this list just as it is.  Plain text and no-top posting - thank 
> you.  :-)


OK.  I'm nosy now.  Can you folks share what email software you are
using?  Is it GUI based etc?   Stable and doesn't change settings to
something stupid like Seamonkey/thunderbird just did. 

To put it simply, I'm considering switching away from Seamonkey here and
just may do it.  One thing I'd like tho, being able to transfer my
emails from Seamonkey to whatever new program I'm using.  When I
switched from Kmail, I was able to do that, can't recall how now.

Just curious as to my options here.  May as well learn some stuff while
we on the topic.  ;-) 

Thanks.

Dale

:-)  :-)  

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[Peter Humphrey]

On Tuesday 22 August 2017 19:37:10 Mick wrote:

> PS.  I think Peter may be around the corner any minute now, to correct my
> English too!  Ha, ha, ha!

Funny you should say that  :)

I've been offline for a few days and I'm only just catching up.

I don't often waste everybody's time trying to achieve perfection in 
writing, just occasionally finding it hard to keep a sense of proportion.

That's all from me pro tem.

-- 
Regards,
Peter.

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[J. Roeleveld]

On 24 August 2017 10:55:52 GMT+02:00, Mick  wrote:
>On Thursday, 24 August 2017 09:36:43 BST J. Roeleveld wrote:
>
>> I can handle HTML emails and won't complain. (As long as they don't
>set some
>> idiotic font or background colours)
>
>I don't mind messages which contain both formats and let the mail
>client 
>render the content according to the preferences of the recipient; i.e.
>a 
>message with:
>
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>
>which contains:
>
>Content-Type: text/plain;
>and 
>Content-Type: text/html;
>
>However, I have found some mail clients, especially Microsoft web based
>
>mailers, send a Base64 blob which *only* contains HTML.  I don't like 
>receiving these and depending on the sender I delete them.
>
>
>> But top-posting when replying to emails makes for unnecessary
>difficult
>> reading.
>> 
>> --
>> Joost
>
>Top-posting when the message is a threaded conversation does not help. 
>Some 
>mobile apps and webmail interfaces make it really difficult to respond
>inline, 
>so I don't mind being flexible on this matter.
>
>PS.  I like this list just as it is.  Plain text and no-top posting -
>thank 
>you.  :-)

The mobile app I use on my phone (k9mail) can be configured to put the reply 
underneath.

I type in a field that is at the top. But it is pasted at the bottom.

I can also reply inline, but that is more cumbersome using a phone.

I do not see why technical people still claim bottom posting is impossible 
using mobile apps. And claiming it is because of some hypersecure email account 
doesn't make sense for a publicly archived mailing list.

--
Joost
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[Mick]

On Thursday, 24 August 2017 09:36:43 BST J. Roeleveld wrote:

> I can handle HTML emails and won't complain. (As long as they don't set some
> idiotic font or background colours)

I don't mind messages which contain both formats and let the mail client 
render the content according to the preferences of the recipient; i.e. a 
message with:

Content-Type: multipart/alternative;

which contains:

Content-Type: text/plain;
and 
Content-Type: text/html;

However, I have found some mail clients, especially Microsoft web based 
mailers, send a Base64 blob which *only* contains HTML.  I don't like 
receiving these and depending on the sender I delete them.


> But top-posting when replying to emails makes for unnecessary difficult
> reading.
> 
> --
> Joost

Top-posting when the message is a threaded conversation does not help.  Some 
mobile apps and webmail interfaces make it really difficult to respond inline, 
so I don't mind being flexible on this matter.

PS.  I like this list just as it is.  Plain text and no-top posting - thank 
you.  :-)
-- 
Regards,
Mick

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Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[J. Roeleveld]

On 23 August 2017 22:10:10 GMT+02:00, Alan McKinnon  
wrote:
>On 23/08/2017 21:26, Dale wrote:
>> Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>> On 23/08/2017 09:03, Thomas Mueller wrote:
 You (Dale) seem to have corrected the multipart/alternative
>problem, except one message (Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: downgrading
>glibc) where multipart/alternative went through.

 I would never design an email client to send multipart/alternative
>by default, and might design an email client to not support
>multipart/alternative at all in composed messages.
>>>
>>> And that's why your mail client will never rule the world, but
>Outlook
>>> and GMail's web interface does.
>>>
>>> I think it's high time we techies all got over the HTML thing now.
>We
>>> all have high speed internet these days, you can't buy a spinning
>drive
>>> smaller than 1TB anymore and apart from a few holdfasts like decent
>>> Mailman lists (eg this one and kernel.org), email is a thing that
>idiots
>>> at work use like it was IM. Most other folks moved on...
>>>
>> 
>> I tend to agree with that.  Mine shows both plain text and HTML just
>> fine.  Either one works.  By default, it blocks remote content which
>> generally results in a somewhat plain text email anyway, until I tell
>it
>> to show remote stuff.  The only reason I do set it up this way is for
>> gentoo.org and kde.org.  Everyone else gets HTML, all the time. 
>> 
>> I suspect the percentage of even Gentoo mailing list users that use
>> software that can't show HTML is small. I wouldn't be surprised if it
>is
>> single digits even.  That said, Seamonkey is starting to rub me the
>> wrong way.  The only reason I'm still using it is because of email
>since
>> some websites don't load correctly anymore.  Since they changed that
>> reply to list to reply to sender, that has thrown me a serious curve
>> ball.  Before mentioning Thunderbird, it has the same default.  I
>found
>> that out while trying to figure out Seamonkey.  So, if I switch from
>> Seamonkey for email, it'll be something totally new and may even have
>> the same stupid "feature". 
>> 
>> Maybe one day someone can post in HTML and no one says anything.  o_O
>
>
>The only cases I see nowadays of really needing non-HTML mail is a)
>this
>list and b) mutt (or alike terminal MUA) for server mails which is
>invariably always text-only anyway...
>
>People who send me mails with excessive HTML just go in my kill file on
>Office 365, and it's the company spending $brazillions on that storage,
>not me

I agree as well

I can handle HTML emails and won't complain. (As long as they don't set some 
idiotic font or background colours)

But top-posting when replying to emails makes for unnecessary difficult reading.

--
Joost
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[Alan McKinnon]

On 23/08/2017 21:26, Dale wrote:
> Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> On 23/08/2017 09:03, Thomas Mueller wrote:
>>> You (Dale) seem to have corrected the multipart/alternative problem, except 
>>> one message (Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: downgrading glibc) where 
>>> multipart/alternative went through.
>>>
>>> I would never design an email client to send multipart/alternative by 
>>> default, and might design an email client to not support 
>>> multipart/alternative at all in composed messages.
>>
>> And that's why your mail client will never rule the world, but Outlook
>> and GMail's web interface does.
>>
>> I think it's high time we techies all got over the HTML thing now. We
>> all have high speed internet these days, you can't buy a spinning drive
>> smaller than 1TB anymore and apart from a few holdfasts like decent
>> Mailman lists (eg this one and kernel.org), email is a thing that idiots
>> at work use like it was IM. Most other folks moved on...
>>
> 
> I tend to agree with that.  Mine shows both plain text and HTML just
> fine.  Either one works.  By default, it blocks remote content which
> generally results in a somewhat plain text email anyway, until I tell it
> to show remote stuff.  The only reason I do set it up this way is for
> gentoo.org and kde.org.  Everyone else gets HTML, all the time. 
> 
> I suspect the percentage of even Gentoo mailing list users that use
> software that can't show HTML is small. I wouldn't be surprised if it is
> single digits even.  That said, Seamonkey is starting to rub me the
> wrong way.  The only reason I'm still using it is because of email since
> some websites don't load correctly anymore.  Since they changed that
> reply to list to reply to sender, that has thrown me a serious curve
> ball.  Before mentioning Thunderbird, it has the same default.  I found
> that out while trying to figure out Seamonkey.  So, if I switch from
> Seamonkey for email, it'll be something totally new and may even have
> the same stupid "feature". 
> 
> Maybe one day someone can post in HTML and no one says anything.  o_O 

The only cases I see nowadays of really needing non-HTML mail is a) this
list and b) mutt (or alike terminal MUA) for server mails which is
invariably always text-only anyway...

People who send me mails with excessive HTML just go in my kill file on
Office 365, and it's the company spending $brazillions on that storage,
not me

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[Dale]

J. Roeleveld wrote:
> On 23 August 2017 18:49:39 GMT+02:00, Dale  wrote:
>> Thomas Mueller wrote:
>>> You (Dale) seem to have corrected the multipart/alternative problem,
>> except one message (Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: downgrading glibc)
>> where multipart/alternative went through.
>>> I would never design an email client to send multipart/alternative by
>> default, and might design an email client to not support
>> multipart/alternative at all in composed messages.
>>> Tom
>>>
>> Someone pointed out that it likely did that with that message because
>> the message I was replying to was HTML.  It seems that if I reply to a
>> HTML message, it ignores my settings.  I think it should obey the
>> settings regardless myself as settings should override what it is
>> replying too. 
>>
>> At least I know that messages by default are being sent correctly. 
>> That
>> should correct the vast majority of them. 
>>
>> Thanks again to all.
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-) 
> Some mail clients have a different setting for when replying. Maybe you 
> missed that one?
> Or that should be added.
>
> --
> Joost

If it has one, I'm not aware of it and I've looked.  I think it should
follow the settings I have by domain no matter if it is a reply or not. 
Of course, sometimes I just try to apply common sense.  ;-) 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[Dale]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 23/08/2017 09:03, Thomas Mueller wrote:
>> You (Dale) seem to have corrected the multipart/alternative problem, except 
>> one message (Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: downgrading glibc) where 
>> multipart/alternative went through.
>>
>> I would never design an email client to send multipart/alternative by 
>> default, and might design an email client to not support 
>> multipart/alternative at all in composed messages.
>
> And that's why your mail client will never rule the world, but Outlook
> and GMail's web interface does.
>
> I think it's high time we techies all got over the HTML thing now. We
> all have high speed internet these days, you can't buy a spinning drive
> smaller than 1TB anymore and apart from a few holdfasts like decent
> Mailman lists (eg this one and kernel.org), email is a thing that idiots
> at work use like it was IM. Most other folks moved on...
>

I tend to agree with that.  Mine shows both plain text and HTML just
fine.  Either one works.  By default, it blocks remote content which
generally results in a somewhat plain text email anyway, until I tell it
to show remote stuff.  The only reason I do set it up this way is for
gentoo.org and kde.org.  Everyone else gets HTML, all the time. 

I suspect the percentage of even Gentoo mailing list users that use
software that can't show HTML is small. I wouldn't be surprised if it is
single digits even.  That said, Seamonkey is starting to rub me the
wrong way.  The only reason I'm still using it is because of email since
some websites don't load correctly anymore.  Since they changed that
reply to list to reply to sender, that has thrown me a serious curve
ball.  Before mentioning Thunderbird, it has the same default.  I found
that out while trying to figure out Seamonkey.  So, if I switch from
Seamonkey for email, it'll be something totally new and may even have
the same stupid "feature". 

Maybe one day someone can post in HTML and no one says anything.  o_O 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[Alan McKinnon]

On 23/08/2017 09:03, Thomas Mueller wrote:
> You (Dale) seem to have corrected the multipart/alternative problem, except 
> one message (Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: downgrading glibc) where 
> multipart/alternative went through.
> 
> I would never design an email client to send multipart/alternative by 
> default, and might design an email client to not support 
> multipart/alternative at all in composed messages.


And that's why your mail client will never rule the world, but Outlook
and GMail's web interface does.

I think it's high time we techies all got over the HTML thing now. We
all have high speed internet these days, you can't buy a spinning drive
smaller than 1TB anymore and apart from a few holdfasts like decent
Mailman lists (eg this one and kernel.org), email is a thing that idiots
at work use like it was IM. Most other folks moved on...

-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[J. Roeleveld]

On 23 August 2017 18:49:39 GMT+02:00, Dale  wrote:
>Thomas Mueller wrote:
>> You (Dale) seem to have corrected the multipart/alternative problem,
>except one message (Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: downgrading glibc)
>where multipart/alternative went through.
>>
>> I would never design an email client to send multipart/alternative by
>default, and might design an email client to not support
>multipart/alternative at all in composed messages.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>
>Someone pointed out that it likely did that with that message because
>the message I was replying to was HTML.  It seems that if I reply to a
>HTML message, it ignores my settings.  I think it should obey the
>settings regardless myself as settings should override what it is
>replying too. 
>
>At least I know that messages by default are being sent correctly. 
>That
>should correct the vast majority of them. 
>
>Thanks again to all.
>
>Dale
>
>:-)  :-) 

Some mail clients have a different setting for when replying. Maybe you missed 
that one?
Or that should be added.

--
Joost
-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[Dale]

Thomas Mueller wrote:
> You (Dale) seem to have corrected the multipart/alternative problem, except 
> one message (Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: downgrading glibc) where 
> multipart/alternative went through.
>
> I would never design an email client to send multipart/alternative by 
> default, and might design an email client to not support 
> multipart/alternative at all in composed messages.
>
> Tom
>

Someone pointed out that it likely did that with that message because
the message I was replying to was HTML.  It seems that if I reply to a
HTML message, it ignores my settings.  I think it should obey the
settings regardless myself as settings should override what it is
replying too. 

At least I know that messages by default are being sent correctly.  That
should correct the vast majority of them. 

Thanks again to all.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[Alan McKinnon]

On 22/08/2017 17:41, Dale wrote:
> Alan McKinnon wrote:
>> On 22/08/2017 15:01, Dale wrote:
>>> Howdy,
>>>
>>> I have this set to send text only for gentoo.org and kde.org.  Someone
>>> replied making me think it is not doing as instructed, even tho settings
>>> says it is.  Can someone tell me for sure and certain that this is
>>> sending as it should?  Text only I hope. 
>> I see 3 problems with your mail, but content-type is not one of them :-)
>> That is set to text only, exactly as you intended
>>
>>
> 
> What would those be?  Maybe I can change a setting and fix it. 
> 
> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-) 
> 

what Mick said :-)


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[Thomas Mueller]

You (Dale) seem to have corrected the multipart/alternative problem, except one 
message (Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Re: downgrading glibc) where 
multipart/alternative went through.

I would never design an email client to send multipart/alternative by default, 
and might design an email client to not support multipart/alternative at all in 
composed messages.

Tom

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[Dale]

Mick wrote:
> On Tuesday, 22 August 2017 16:41:54 BST Dale wrote:
>> Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>> On 22/08/2017 15:01, Dale wrote:
 Howdy,

 I have this 
> You have not defined what "this" is.  The word "this" is being used here as a 
> determinant (I think), but it is not preceded by a sentence defining it.  So, 
> we are left hanging in anticipation of you revealing what "this" refers to, 
> meanwhile engaging in wild a** guessing as to what it might have been you had 
> in your mind, but never wrote down.
>

This would be Seamonkey, that I use to compose and send emails with,
even tho I'm less happy with it than I once was.  ;-) 

 set to send text only for gentoo.org and kde.org.  Someone
 replied making me think it 
> Hmm ... same deal here.  You have not defined "it".

Same it.

>
 is not doing as instructed, even tho 
> By "tho" I assume your mean "though" if you have used a spelling variant of 
> the late 19th early 20th century, which in 2017 may appear an oddity.  
> Nevertheless, your preference is respected.

Yea, it's shorter spelled that way and sometimes my o and u fingers get
crossed up.  Those keys on the keyboard are wearing thin too.  lol 


 settings says it is.
> Well, "settings" in plural form are more than one and therefore the verb must 
> "say" it is.  Of course, settings say nothing, as they are not a person to 
> utter words.  Settings define, specify, set, show, indicate, and so on.
>
  Can someone tell me for sure and certain that this is
 sending as it should?  Text only I hope.
> "this" and "it" still require defining.
>

Done.  lol 


>>> I see 3 problems with your mail, but content-type is not one of them :-)
>>> That is set to text only, exactly as you intended
>> What would those be?  Maybe I can change a setting and fix it.
> Here we go again:  Alan explained he spotted three (3) things wrong with your 
> mail.  He did not say your mail is wrong.  Therefore, "it" is inappropriate 
> in 
> form.  It should be in plural.
>
> In addition, I am not sure what setting you may need to change.  I hope it 
> will not be painful for either party.

Me to because it may require changing email programs.  O_o 

>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-)
> LOL!  I'm only pulling your leg Dale! Wot U wrote was good and proper!  :-)
>
> PS.  I think Peter may be around the corner any minute now, to correct my 
> English too!  Ha, ha, ha!

Well, most old timers know I have this occasional hiccup with my email
program.  I upgrade and it starts sending HTML and all sorts of crazy
things.  Sometimes, I want to shoot the thing, stick some dynamite in it
and blow it up and then bury it, 10 feet deep.  I can put that leg you
are pulling in the hole if needed.  lol 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[Mick]

On Tuesday, 22 August 2017 16:41:54 BST Dale wrote:
> Alan McKinnon wrote:
> > On 22/08/2017 15:01, Dale wrote:
> >> Howdy,
> >> 
> >> I have this 

You have not defined what "this" is.  The word "this" is being used here as a 
determinant (I think), but it is not preceded by a sentence defining it.  So, 
we are left hanging in anticipation of you revealing what "this" refers to, 
meanwhile engaging in wild a** guessing as to what it might have been you had 
in your mind, but never wrote down.


> >> set to send text only for gentoo.org and kde.org.  Someone
> >> replied making me think it 

Hmm ... same deal here.  You have not defined "it".

> >> is not doing as instructed, even tho 

By "tho" I assume your mean "though" if you have used a spelling variant of 
the late 19th early 20th century, which in 2017 may appear an oddity.  
Nevertheless, your preference is respected.

> >> settings says it is.

Well, "settings" in plural form are more than one and therefore the verb must 
"say" it is.  Of course, settings say nothing, as they are not a person to 
utter words.  Settings define, specify, set, show, indicate, and so on.

> >>  Can someone tell me for sure and certain that this is
> >> sending as it should?  Text only I hope.

"this" and "it" still require defining.


> > I see 3 problems with your mail, but content-type is not one of them :-)
> > That is set to text only, exactly as you intended
> 
> What would those be?  Maybe I can change a setting and fix it.

Here we go again:  Alan explained he spotted three (3) things wrong with your 
mail.  He did not say your mail is wrong.  Therefore, "it" is inappropriate in 
form.  It should be in plural.

In addition, I am not sure what setting you may need to change.  I hope it 
will not be painful for either party.

> Dale
> 
> :-)  :-)

LOL!  I'm only pulling your leg Dale! Wot U wrote was good and proper!  :-)

PS.  I think Peter may be around the corner any minute now, to correct my 
English too!  Ha, ha, ha!
-- 
Regards,
Mick

signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[Dale]

Alan McKinnon wrote:
> On 22/08/2017 15:01, Dale wrote:
>> Howdy,
>>
>> I have this set to send text only for gentoo.org and kde.org.  Someone
>> replied making me think it is not doing as instructed, even tho settings
>> says it is.  Can someone tell me for sure and certain that this is
>> sending as it should?  Text only I hope. 
> I see 3 problems with your mail, but content-type is not one of them :-)
> That is set to text only, exactly as you intended
>
>

What would those be?  Maybe I can change a setting and fix it. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[Dale]

Dale wrote:
> Howdy,
>
> I have this set to send text only for gentoo.org and kde.org.  Someone
> replied making me think it is not doing as instructed, even tho settings
> says it is.  Can someone tell me for sure and certain that this is
> sending as it should?  Text only I hope. 
>
> Thanks.
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-) 
>

Thanks to all who replied.  It seems my settings are working but may
have replied with HTML when I replied to a HTML message. 

For future reference, if my messages are not list friendly, let me
know.  Sometimes a upgrade throws a curve ball. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[Alan McKinnon]

On 22/08/2017 15:01, Dale wrote:
> Howdy,
> 
> I have this set to send text only for gentoo.org and kde.org.  Someone
> replied making me think it is not doing as instructed, even tho settings
> says it is.  Can someone tell me for sure and certain that this is
> sending as it should?  Text only I hope. 

I see 3 problems with your mail, but content-type is not one of them :-)
That is set to text only, exactly as you intended


-- 
Alan McKinnon
alan.mckin...@gmail.com

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[Tom H]

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 4:01 PM, Dale  wrote:
>
> I have this set to send text only for gentoo.org and kde.org. Someone
> replied making me think it is not doing as instructed, even tho settings
> says it is. Can someone tell me for sure and certain that this is
> sending as it should?  Text only I hope.

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Re: [gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[Todd Goodman]

I only see content-type text/plain.

So it seems to be working from my POV.

Todd


On 8/22/2017 9:01 AM, Dale wrote:

Howdy,

I have this set to send text only for gentoo.org and kde.org.  Someone
replied making me think it is not doing as instructed, even tho settings
says it is.  Can someone tell me for sure and certain that this is
sending as it should?  Text only I hope.

Thanks.

Dale

:-)  :-)

[gentoo-user] Is this working correctly??

[Dale]

Howdy,

I have this set to send text only for gentoo.org and kde.org.  Someone
replied making me think it is not doing as instructed, even tho settings
says it is.  Can someone tell me for sure and certain that this is
sending as it should?  Text only I hope. 

Thanks.

Dale

:-)  :-)