Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

Michael wrote: > On Thursday, 7 May 2020 16:11:03 BST Dale wrote: >> Neil Bothwick wrote: >>> On Wed, 6 May 2020 22:31:54 -0500, Dale wrote: There used to be a package that caused some serious problems with upgrades. It was really tricky but I can't recall the name of it since it

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Thursday, 7 May 2020 16:11:03 BST Dale wrote: > Neil Bothwick wrote: > > On Wed, 6 May 2020 22:31:54 -0500, Dale wrote: > >> There used to be a package that caused some serious problems with > >> upgrades. It was really tricky but I can't recall the name of it since > >> it was ages ago. > >

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

Petr Vaněk wrote: > On Thu, May 07, 2020 at 10:23:34AM -0500, Dale wrote: >> Petr Vaněk wrote: >>> On Thu, May 07, 2020 at 10:15:39AM -0500, Dale wrote: I'll dig out my magnifying glass in a bit.  lol  >>> https://linuxfiend.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/gentoo10-19.jpg >> Now that is better. 

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Thu, May 07, 2020 at 10:23:34AM -0500, Dale wrote: > Petr Vaněk wrote: > > On Thu, May 07, 2020 at 10:15:39AM -0500, Dale wrote: > >> I'll dig out my magnifying glass in a bit.  lol  > > https://linuxfiend.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/gentoo10-19.jpg > > Now that is better.  I tried clicking

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

Petr Vaněk wrote: > On Thu, May 07, 2020 at 10:15:39AM -0500, Dale wrote: >> I'll dig out my magnifying glass in a bit.  lol  > https://linuxfiend.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/gentoo10-19.jpg > > Now that is better.  I tried clicking some stuff on the old link, even tried ctrl + to increase the

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Thu, May 07, 2020 at 10:15:39AM -0500, Dale wrote: > I'll dig out my magnifying glass in a bit.  lol  https://linuxfiend.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/gentoo10-19.jpg

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

hitachi303 wrote: > Am 07.05.2020 um 05:39 schrieb Dale: >> Well, it is about Gentoo and the perception someone had that Gentoo >> is dying, which has been claimed for many, many years now. > > > Personally I like this graphic about gentoo being extinct. > >

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Wed, 6 May 2020 22:31:54 -0500, Dale wrote: > >> There used to be a package that caused some serious problems with >> upgrades.  It was really tricky but I can't recall the name of it since >> it was ages ago. > expat? I recall that causing some hair loss. > > It's

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On 5/6/20 11:39 PM, Dale wrote: Pengcheng Xu wrote: Sorry for possible necroposting, but I'm pretty interested what's happening in this thread, as there seems to be detailed discussion on topics under this "Is Gentoo dead?" clickbait subject. The whole conversation list does not even fit in

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

Am 07.05.2020 um 05:39 schrieb Dale: Well, it is about Gentoo and the perception someone had that Gentoo is dying, which has been claimed for many, many years now. Personally I like this graphic about gentoo being extinct. https://linuxfiend.wordpress.com/2009/12/05/is-gentoo-dying/

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Wed, 6 May 2020 22:31:54 -0500, Dale wrote: > There used to be a package that caused some serious problems with > upgrades.  It was really tricky but I can't recall the name of it since > it was ages ago. expat? I recall that causing some hair loss. -- Neil Bothwick "Ubuntu" is an ancient

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Thursday, May 7, 2020 6:35 AM, Rich Freeman wrote: > On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 10:14 PM Caveman Al Toraboran > toraboracave...@protonmail.com wrote: > > > are you referring to python's dependence on expat > > and glibc? > > More like bash's dependence. Well, and in the case of glibc just > about

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Thursday, May 7, 2020 7:31 AM, Dale wrote: > Rich Freeman wrote: > > OP, odds are the emerge failure is what triggered the problem.  If it had > completed without failure, it would likely have been a clean update.  This is > why I set up a chroot and do my updates there and use the -k option

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Thursday, 7 May 2020 04:50:41 BST Caveman Al Toraboran wrote: > On Thursday, May 7, 2020 7:31 AM, Dale wrote: > > Rich Freeman wrote: > > > > OP, odds are the emerge failure is what triggered the problem. If it had > > completed without failure, it would likely have been a clean update.

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Thursday, May 7, 2020 5:43 AM, Rich Freeman wrote: > Are you overriding something, or were you running this right in the > middle of an update? emerge was updating, then some ebuild failed and i didn't have --keep-going. then next time i tried to sync layman it failed. i'm now re-running

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Wed, 6 May 2020 22:39:39 -0500 Dale wrote: > If you enjoy using Gentoo, or if you don't, if you skip this thread, > you won't be missing a whole lot.  I don't recall any breaking news > or life saving tips in it.  ROFL What a nice comment to read when starting my day. Thanks! ;-) cu

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 8:28 PM, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > On 4/22/20 12:24 PM, Michael Jones wrote: > > > On a source-based distribution, the thing that manages package > > installations can break itself if it incorrectly installs a library that > > a subsequent run of itself would

RE: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

https://jsteward.moe > -Original Message- > From: Dale > Sent: Thursday, May 7, 2020 11:40 AM > To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org > Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead? > > Pengcheng Xu wrote: > > > Sorry for possible necroposting, but I'm pretty

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

Pengcheng Xu wrote: > Sorry for possible necroposting, but I'm pretty interested what's happening > in this thread, as there seems to be detailed discussion on topics under this > "Is Gentoo dead?" clickbait subject. The whole conversation list does not > even fit in a single screen... Would

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

Rich Freeman wrote: > On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 10:14 PM Caveman Al Toraboran > wrote: >> are you referring to python's dependence on expat >> and glibc? >> > More like bash's dependence. Well, and in the case of glibc just > about everything. When those break you're basically stuck recovering >

RE: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

ovide some clue what's going on? Regards, -- Pengcheng Xu https://jsteward.moe > -Original Message- > From: Consus > Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 12:58 AM > To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org > Subject: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead? > > Hi, > > In al

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 10:14 PM Caveman Al Toraboran wrote: > > are you referring to python's dependence on expat > and glibc? > More like bash's dependence. Well, and in the case of glibc just about everything. When those break you're basically stuck recovering from a rescue disk.

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Wed, May 6, 2020 at 9:13 PM Caveman Al Toraboran wrote: > > just to say that some portagy thing (layman) can't > work now as emerge was rebuilding packages to > remove python3_6): > > running "layman -S"... > Traceback (most recent call last): > File

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 03:33:58AM +1200, Kent Fredric wrote: > Only Torvalds can write Segfault free code. > > Everyone else tries hard, and eventually get beaten into submission by > GCC and UB. > > ( Yes, I'm being a little hyperbolic, but the test of time has shown > how hard it is to write

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 18:57:47 +0300 lego12...@yandex.ru wrote: > You have lost faith in people ;-). Only Torvalds can write Segfault free code. Everyone else tries hard, and eventually get beaten into submission by GCC and UB. ( Yes, I'm being a little hyperbolic, but the test of time has shown

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 11:31:57PM +1200, Kent Fredric wrote: > On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 19:14:55 +0300 > lego12...@yandex.ru wrote: > > > portage must be in C and statically linked. > > Do you want Segfaults? Certainly no :-). Like any other :-). > Because that's how you get segfaults :p. No-no

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 19:14:55 +0300 lego12...@yandex.ru wrote: > portage must be in C and statically linked. Do you want Segfaults? Because that's how you get segfaults :p. Maybe Rust or something like it, but I don't really trust our capacity to implement something this complicated in C.

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On 4/26/20 10:23 AM, Caveman Al Toraboran wrote: >> >> That looks a lot like a linear programming problem, but package versions >> are discrete. So ignoring all of the details, it's believable that we >> have an integer programming problem, which is NP-complete. > > i'm dumb, and don't fully

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Saturday, April 25, 2020 1:23 AM, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > It's not outwardly a traveling salesman problem, but it's on the same > level of difficulty. If you look at RDEPEND in an ebuild, you'll see a > bunch of entries like > > cat/pkg <= version > > As the package manager recursively

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Saturday, April 25, 2020 10:04 PM, Fernando Reyes wrote: > Bravo, and Gentoo can't be dead because it's immortal. > > likewhoa no, that's not it. let me explain. gentoo is indeed dead. specifically, gentoo's death happened some time in 2007. then, in the 2nd of march 2008, gentoo

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Sat, Apr 25, 2020 at 04:37:43PM +, Caveman Al Toraboran wrote: > so i really can't believe that we have devolved in > such a way where malloc/free suddenly has became a > hard concept for homo sapiens. You'd be surprised how much shocking code is out there, especially in

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On 4/22/20 12:24 PM, james wrote: Gentoo is for experts, and those that aspire, through many years of hard work, to become C/unix/kernel/any-code type of experts. YOU, making this statement, are just LAZY! Bravo, and Gentoo can't be dead because it's immortal. likewhoa

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Friday, April 24, 2020 12:27 AM, Steven Lembark wrote: > Main issue I can see with C is that most people today don't know how > to manage memory; not enough of us left who really understand how > malloc works :-) i find it very hard to believe this. because, fundamentally, the concept of

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 05:07:48PM -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > I might believe you about speed, but not about RAM. Memory usage goes up > with static linking because you've got multiple copies of the same thing > loaded into memory. No. I told about RAM :-). Several years ago i had some

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On 4/23/20 2:14 PM, Caveman Al Toraboran wrote: > On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 9:34 PM, Michael Orlitzky > wrote: > >> Dependency resolution is indeed a (formally) hard problem. Solving the >> traveling salesman problem is also hard. Solving the traveling salesman >> problem while being punched

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On 4/23/20 4:45 AM, lego12...@yandex.ru wrote: > On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 03:24:07PM -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote: >> FWIW, I do know there are situations where static linking is the right >> thing to do. > > If you project require strong security, than it would be simpler to use > static

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On 4/23/20 5:44 AM, Dale wrote: > lego12...@yandex.ru wrote: >> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 04:02:13AM -0500, Dale wrote: >>> lego12...@yandex.ru wrote: Just interesting, why you need to sync every day? And why you need emerge -e, if you can use emerge -auND? >>> Might be because Michael is

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Friday, April 24, 2020 9:56 PM, Michele Alzetta wrote: > I mean, basically portage is just a set of functions, so a functional > programming language might just be the best way to go yes, haskell passes step (1); so does php, java, etc. now kindly apply the rest of the steps ((2) and

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 09:08:31PM +0300, lego12...@yandex.ru wrote: > On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 06:30:25PM +0200, inasprecali wrote: > > There is no rational reason for the core of Portage to be written in > > C. > > There are more than one rational reasons to do so. Such as ? Portage builds

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 06:30:25PM +0200, inasprecali wrote: > There is no rational reason for the core of Portage to be written in > C. There are more than one rational reasons to do so. -- Олег Неманов (Oleg Nemanov)

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

I mean, basically portage is just a set of functions, so a functional programming language might just be the best way to go Il giorno ven 24 apr 2020 alle ore 19:54 Michele Alzetta < michele.alze...@gmail.com> ha scritto: > ... seems like you're describing haskell ... > ... now, portage written

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

... seems like you're describing haskell ... ... now, portage written in haskell would be really something Il giorno ven 24 apr 2020 alle ore 14:36 Caveman Al Toraboran < toraboracave...@protonmail.com> ha scritto: > On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 8:32 PM, Michael Jones > wrote: > > > > No-no.

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Friday, April 24, 2020 8:30 PM, inasprecali wrote: > There is no rational reason for the core of Portage to be written in > C. curious.. are you also cool if busybox was written in python?

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On 24 Apr 2020, at 18:37, Caveman Al Toraboran wrote: > > On Friday, April 24, 2020 8:30 PM, inasprecali > wrote: > >> There is no rational reason for the core of Portage to be written in >> C. > > curious.. are you also cool if busybox was written > in python? The argument for a

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Fri, 24 Apr 2020 12:22:39 +0300 lego12...@yandex.ru wrote: > The core of portage should be in C, imho. But it can be extendable > with hooks written in something simple like a bash. > It mustn't be a solid binary. It can be splitted into separate parts > with strict definitions of interaction

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Friday, April 24, 2020 4:45 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: > How did we get from "Is Gentoo dead?" to "Is C++ dead?" c++ is very alive. it just usually exists in the form of a disease and spreads like cancer. rgrds, cm.

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 8:32 PM, Michael Jones wrote: > >   No-no. C++ is a nightmare. A few people want to use it. > > C++ is an extremely widespread language with millions of lines of code > written daily world wide.  i think that might be misleading as it seems to imply that being a

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 8:35 AM Caveman Al Toraboran wrote: > > On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 8:32 PM, Michael Jones > wrote: > > > > No-no. C++ is a nightmare. A few people want to use it. > > > > C++ is an extremely widespread language with millions of lines of code > > written daily world

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 03:27:16PM -0500, Steven Lembark wrote: > > > portage must be in C and statically linked. > > Seems to argue in favor of a statically-linked dynamic language: The > runtime compiler can be static with install scripts being a bit more > malleable. The core of portage

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

Steven Lembark wrote: > On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 20:49:42 -0500 > Dale wrote: > > Aside: > >> It made one glad that >> they could only use keyboards instead of dueling pistols.  Then they >> created moderators with people to enforce some rules.  It got better.  >> Actually, a lot better.  Still, every

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Friday, April 24, 2020 1:03 AM, Alec Ten Harmsel wrote: > If it's so easy, why don't you implement it? /s because busy and got better things in life. but what is your point? 1. are you trying to get to know me a bit closer? 2. or are you trying to indirectly a claim that making portage

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, at 14:14, Caveman Al Toraboran wrote: > On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 9:34 PM, Michael Orlitzky > wrote: > > > Dependency resolution is indeed a (formally) hard problem. Solving the > > traveling salesman problem is also hard. Solving the traveling salesman > > problem

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

> portage must be in C and statically linked. Seems to argue in favor of a statically-linked dynamic language: The runtime compiler can be static with install scripts being a bit more malleable. Main issue I can see with C is that most people today don't know how to manage memory; not

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 03:10:28PM -0500, Steven Lembark wrote: > Why the hell not? I'm not saying not, I was all for it.

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 22:01:45 +0300 Consus wrote: > Yeah, mgorny likes to do some provocative stuff like forking Portage. Why the hell not? Once you have a source-based distro the package manager can be a matter of choice also -- so long as it accepts the existing package constructs as input.

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 20:49:42 -0500 Dale wrote: Aside: > It made one glad that > they could only use keyboards instead of dueling pistols.  Then they > created moderators with people to enforce some rules.  It got better.  > Actually, a lot better.  Still, every once in a while, someone feels >

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

> Still you have to manually configure things. And I know that Gentoo is > about choice, but configuring kernel is hard. Actually, it's less difficult than finding out half-way through a three-day execution cycle that you have the wrong kernel config. "make menuconfig" is blindingly simple on

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 9:34 PM, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > Dependency resolution is indeed a (formally) hard problem. Solving the > traveling salesman problem is also hard. Solving the traveling salesman > problem while being punched in the face is even harder. When I complain > about

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 1:15 PM Caveman Al Toraboran < toraboracave...@protonmail.com> wrote: > On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 9:34 PM, Michael Orlitzky > wrote: > > > Dependency resolution is indeed a (formally) hard problem. Solving the > > traveling salesman problem is also hard. Solving the

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 05:20:23PM +0200, J. Roeleveld wrote: > On 23 April 2020 11:26:08 CEST, lego12...@yandex.ru wrote: > >I know about it. I didn't understand why in usual case we need to > >do everytime emerge -e, instead of emerge -uND. But if we talk about os > >developer - it's clear(but

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On 23 April 2020 11:26:08 CEST, lego12...@yandex.ru wrote: > >> The two commands do different things.  Using emerge -e calculates >> rebuilding every package while emerge -auDN only looks for certain >> updates.  Each can be useful even if not allowed to complete. > >I know about it. I didn't

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

lego12...@yandex.ru wrote: > On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 04:44:10AM -0500, Dale wrote: > >> If you do a emerge -ea world, you will see changes that emerge -uaDN >> world won't because it considers every package on the system.  When you >> do emerge -uaDN world, it only looks for changes/updates to the

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 04:44:10AM -0500, Dale wrote: > You ever think that developers may have to do things us users don't?  Oh... Dale, that was a joke ;-). > All we do is use portage/emerge to update our systems.  They have to > write or update ebuilds, test them, push them to the tree and

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

lego12...@yandex.ru wrote: > On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 04:02:13AM -0500, Dale wrote: >> lego12...@yandex.ru wrote: >>> Just interesting, why you need to sync every day? >>> And why you need emerge -e, if you can use emerge -auND? >> Might be because Michael is a Gentoo developer.  They have to sync

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 04:02:13AM -0500, Dale wrote: > lego12...@yandex.ru wrote: > > Just interesting, why you need to sync every day? > > And why you need emerge -e, if you can use emerge -auND? > > Might be because Michael is a Gentoo developer.  They have to sync a lot > as they make changes

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 11:59:46AM +0300, Consus wrote: > On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 11:52:52AM +0300, lego12...@yandex.ru wrote: > > Nobody talk about "everything is statically linked". > > However, this is a good idea ;-), but this is a topic for another > > conversation :-). > > No wonder Yandex

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lego12...@yandex.ru wrote: > On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 03:19:26PM -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > >> If you only sync once a day, then yes, you'll only have to rebuild once >> a day. I sync considerably more than that though, and besides, it takes >> me about a week to emerge -e @world. > Just

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 11:52:52AM +0300, lego12...@yandex.ru wrote: > Nobody talk about "everything is statically linked". > However, this is a good idea ;-), but this is a topic for another > conversation :-). No wonder Yandex considers you SPAM.

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 03:19:26PM -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > It's not that everything depends on OpenSSL, but that everything depends > on /something/. If everything is statically linked, then any update of > any package sets off a chain reaction of other packages that trigger > rebuilds of

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 03:24:07PM -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > FWIW, I do know there are situations where static linking is the right > thing to do. If you project require strong security, than it would be simpler to use static linking. If you have many instances of the same program or have

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 02:22:02PM -0500, Michael Jones wrote: > But I don't generally want my entire system statically linked, only a few > things. But who said that *entire* system should be statically linked? The conversation is so far only about such a critical thing as portage. -- Олег

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 02:33:45PM -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > If you statically link more than a few things, this is emerge -e @world > twenty times a day. Hm :-D. And why it should be so? I run emerge one time in a week. If there are any changes in a dependancy of some package, why it

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 02:19:19PM -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > How do you plan to update all of your programs when there's a security > vulnerability in, say, OpenSSL? Hm. And why we need every package to be statically linked? I told just that static linking is a good and useful feature.

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

John Covici wrote: > On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 13:30:32 -0400, > Michael Orlitzky wrote: >> On 4/22/20 1:19 PM, John Covici wrote: >>> That makes no sense to me -- portage itself says those files are owned >>> by 14.7.1965(14) so if its telling me that why does it not just >>> replace those files? >>>

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 13:30:32 -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > > On 4/22/20 1:19 PM, John Covici wrote: > > > > That makes no sense to me -- portage itself says those files are owned > > by 14.7.1965(14) so if its telling me that why does it not just > > replace those files? > > > > Aha, you're

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On 4/22/20 3:22 PM, Michael Jones wrote: > > But I don't generally want my entire system statically linked, only a > few things. > FWIW, I do know there are situations where static linking is the right thing to do.

Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [OBORONA-SPAM] Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 2:19 PM Michael Orlitzky wrote: > On 4/22/20 3:15 PM, Michael Jones wrote: > > > > Why would I need to emerge world? Portage knows the full list of > > packages that depend on openssl, transitively. > > > > Unless you're generalizing to say that (almost) everything

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On 4/22/20 3:15 PM, Michael Jones wrote: > > Why would I need to emerge world? Portage knows the full list of > packages that depend on openssl, transitively. > > Unless you're generalizing to say that (almost) everything depends on > openssl, I suppose. > > Also, didn't the handbook, at one

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On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 1:33 PM Michael Orlitzky wrote: > On 4/22/20 2:24 PM, Michael Jones wrote: > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 1:19 PM Michael Orlitzky > > wrote: > > > > How do you plan to update all of your programs when there's a > security > >

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On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 02:38:40PM -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > Rust packages get no security updates. Neither do Go packages. That's > what I'm screaming about in those threads on gentoo-dev that you singled > out in your original post =) Oh... I was under the impression that $EGO_SUMS

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On 4/22/20 2:24 PM, Consus wrote: > On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 02:19:19PM -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote: >> How do you plan to update all of your programs when there's a security >> vulnerability in, say, OpenSSL? > > emerge -1 @world of course :D > > By the way, Rust does support dynamic linking

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On 4/22/20 2:24 PM, Michael Jones wrote: > > > On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 1:19 PM Michael Orlitzky > wrote: > > How do you plan to update all of your programs when there's a security > vulnerability in, say, OpenSSL? > > > Is there some reason why all packages

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On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 02:19:19PM -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > How do you plan to update all of your programs when there's a security > vulnerability in, say, OpenSSL? emerge -1 @world of course :D By the way, Rust does support dynamic linking (to a degree), but does not have (yet, I pray)

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On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 1:19 PM Michael Orlitzky wrote: > How do you plan to update all of your programs when there's a security > vulnerability in, say, OpenSSL? > Is there some reason why all packages that depend on OpenSSL, transitively, could not be recompiled?

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On 4/22/20 2:08 PM, lego12...@yandex.ru wrote: > On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 07:48:01PM +0200, Alessandro Barbieri wrote: >> Whatever, but QA is by my side and I'm helping removing static libraries >> from gentoo packages. > > Man, this is not a technical argument. Sorry :-). You are wrong from a >

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On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 07:48:01PM +0200, Alessandro Barbieri wrote: > Whatever, but QA is by my side and I'm helping removing static libraries > from gentoo packages. Man, this is not a technical argument. Sorry :-). You are wrong from a technical point of view. And the fact above says just: -

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

Michael Orlitzky wrote: > On 4/22/20 1:29 PM, Dale wrote: >> Some may recall my thread about emerge only using one core when doing >> it's build list.  As was discussed in that thread, it would be really >> difficult to build that list in pretty much any language because it just >> isn't set up to

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Whatever, but QA is by my side and I'm helping removing static libraries from gentoo packages. https://projects.gentoo.org/qa/policy-guide/installed-files.html?highlight=static#pg0302 Also more context here: https://flameeyes.blog/2011/08/29/useless-flag-static-libs/

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On 4/22/20 1:29 PM, Dale wrote: > > Some may recall my thread about emerge only using one core when doing > it's build list.  As was discussed in that thread, it would be really > difficult to build that list in pretty much any language because it just > isn't set up to do that, the tree itself

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On 4/22/20 1:19 PM, John Covici wrote: > > That makes no sense to me -- portage itself says those files are owned > by 14.7.1965(14) so if its telling me that why does it not just > replace those files? > Aha, you're not doing anything wrong. The old 14.7.x version was slotted:

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

Michael Orlitzky wrote: > On 4/22/20 11:22 AM, Caveman Al Toraboran wrote: >> On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 11:01 PM, Consus wrote: >> >>> Yeah, mgorny likes to do some provocative stuff like forking Portage. >> patching P*E is heretic, and forking it is >> outright blasphemous. >> > For

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On Wed, 22 Apr 2020 12:03:39 -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > > On 4/22/20 11:58 AM, John Covici wrote: > > > > Yes, portage agrees with that statement, maybe I didn't give you the > > whole log, I thought it said that in there -- I did see that, I am > > sure. My question is how does this work

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

Michael Orlitzky wrote: > On 4/22/20 11:58 AM, John Covici wrote: >> Yes, portage agrees with that statement, maybe I didn't give you the >> whole log, I thought it said that in there -- I did see that, I am >> sure. My question is how does this work normally, when you merge a >> package and

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On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 11:47 AM wrote: > C is more widespread, than C++. > Yes, this is true. > C++ is unneededly complex and for such core thing like a portage > C would be better. C code is simpler and robust. More people know it. > More people can send patches. Etc. > I disagree to the

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On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 11:32:49AM -0500, Michael Jones wrote: > On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 11:30 AM wrote: > > No-no. C++ is a nightmare. A few people want to use it. > > C++ is an extremely widespread language with millions of lines of code > written daily world wide. C is more widespread,

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On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 11:30 AM wrote: > > No-no. C++ is a nightmare. A few people want to use it. > C++ is an extremely widespread language with millions of lines of code written daily world wide. Lots of people want to use it. Just not people who want to write a PMS compliant package

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On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 11:28 AM Michael Orlitzky wrote: > I won't say this is impossible, but in general it hasn't been true for a > long time in Gentoo. Old libraries are left behind until you rebuild the > things that link against them (that's what emerge @preserved-rebuild > does). When used

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On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 12:16:20PM -0400, Michael Orlitzky wrote: > On 4/22/20 12:14 PM, lego12...@yandex.ru wrote: > > Yes. And yes again :-). +1 > > portage must be in C and statically linked. > > python is a strange dependency. > > Paludis was a C++ package manager, but is dead now. No

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On 4/22/20 12:24 PM, Michael Jones wrote: > > On a source-based distribution, the thing that manages package > installations can break itself if it incorrectly installs a library that > a subsequent run of itself would dynamically link against. > I won't say this is impossible, but in general

Re: [gentoo-user] Is Gentoo dead?

On 4/21/20 12:58 PM, Consus wrote: Hi, In all honesty, is Gentoo dead? Gentoo-Dev is filled with passive aggression (though being developers-only mailing list), Github bot warns you that contributing new packages to the main repo is low priority and probably no one will help you, and even

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