Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-08 Thread Bruce Hill
On Sun, Apr 07, 2013 at 03:09:43PM -0500, William Hubbs wrote: On Sat, Apr 06, 2013 at 10:25:50AM -0400, Tanstaafl wrote: On 2013-04-05 4:11 PM, William Hubbs willi...@gentoo.org wrote: On Fri, Apr 05, 2013 at 02:38:21PM -0500, Bruce Hill wrote: Just dealing with one server and my Linux

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-08 Thread Michael Mol
On 04/08/2013 11:04 AM, Bruce Hill wrote: On Sun, Apr 07, 2013 at 03:09:43PM -0500, William Hubbs wrote: On Sat, Apr 06, 2013 at 10:25:50AM -0400, Tanstaafl wrote: On 2013-04-05 4:11 PM, William Hubbs willi...@gentoo.org wrote: On Fri, Apr 05, 2013 at 02:38:21PM -0500, Bruce Hill wrote: Just

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-08 Thread Bruce Hill
On Sun, Apr 07, 2013 at 03:09:43PM -0500, William Hubbs wrote: The significance is that the kernel determines the eth* name order. Right now, you are lucky in that the order is what you think it should be, but if something changes in the kernel causing your cards to be initialized in a

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-07 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Sun, 7 Apr 2013 03:06:30 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote: Wha? I swear I was told that you could not reliably name the iterfaces eth[0-n] using udev rules (which is what I've always done without problems) because of race conditions. So I changed over to net[0-n] on one machine, and was

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-07 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Sun, 7 Apr 2013 00:34:03 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: Now I only had to figure out how to rename eth[0-9]+ to the custom naming scheme when using mdev. ***UDEV*** has broken using eth[0-9]. mdev works just fine, thank you. udev has broken nothing, it is avoiding the breakage caused

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-07 Thread Pandu Poluan
On Apr 7, 2013 5:59 PM, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Sun, 7 Apr 2013 00:34:03 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: Now I only had to figure out how to rename eth[0-9]+ to the custom naming scheme when using mdev. ***UDEV*** has broken using eth[0-9]. mdev works just fine, thank

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-07 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Sun, 7 Apr 2013 22:26:52 +0700, Pandu Poluan wrote: udev has broken nothing, it is avoiding the breakage caused by a fundamentally flawed renaming procedure. Or does mdev have some magic for for renaming eth0 to eth1 while eth1 already exists? Broken or not is totally depending on

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-07 Thread William Hubbs
On Sat, Apr 06, 2013 at 10:25:50AM -0400, Tanstaafl wrote: On 2013-04-05 4:11 PM, William Hubbs willi...@gentoo.org wrote: On Fri, Apr 05, 2013 at 02:38:21PM -0500, Bruce Hill wrote: Just dealing with one server and my Linux router, they've been updated to sys-fs/udev-200 and are both still

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-07 Thread Tanstaafl
On 2013-04-07 4:09 PM, William Hubbs willi...@gentoo.org wrote: On Sat, Apr 06, 2013 at 10:25:50AM -0400, Tanstaafl wrote: On 2013-04-05 4:11 PM, William Hubbs willi...@gentoo.org wrote: Do you have your network interface drivers built into the kernel or are they modules? I'm very interested

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-06 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Fri, 5 Apr 2013 21:14:39 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: * on a machine with multiple network cards *ALL USING DIFFERENT DRIVERS* * drivers are built as modules, not built-in into the kernel * is it possible to set things up so that the network driver modules do not load automatically at

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-06 Thread Mick
On Saturday 06 Apr 2013 09:43:28 Neil Bothwick wrote: On Fri, 5 Apr 2013 21:14:39 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: * on a machine with multiple network cards *ALL USING DIFFERENT DRIVERS* * drivers are built as modules, not built-in into the kernel * is it possible to set things up so that the

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-06 Thread Pandu Poluan
On Apr 6, 2013 3:44 PM, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Fri, 5 Apr 2013 21:14:39 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: * on a machine with multiple network cards *ALL USING DIFFERENT DRIVERS* * drivers are built as modules, not built-in into the kernel * is it possible to set things up so

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-06 Thread kwkhui
On Sat, 6 Apr 2013 19:11:46 +0700 Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote: On Apr 6, 2013 3:44 PM, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Fri, 5 Apr 2013 21:14:39 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: * on a machine with multiple network cards *ALL USING DIFFERENT DRIVERS* * drivers are

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-06 Thread Tanstaafl
On 2013-04-06 8:31 AM, kwk...@hkbn.net kwk...@hkbn.net wrote: Almost, except you should not specify a name that is also eth[0-9]+ (what you called 'traditional' name), since it can cause a race condition where the kernel and udev fight for the name. While it used to be the case (i.e. udev-197)

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-06 Thread Tanstaafl
On 2013-04-05 4:11 PM, William Hubbs willi...@gentoo.org wrote: On Fri, Apr 05, 2013 at 02:38:21PM -0500, Bruce Hill wrote: Just dealing with one server and my Linux router, they've been updated to sys-fs/udev-200 and are both still using the same /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules file

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-06 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Sat, 06 Apr 2013 10:22:49 -0400, Tanstaafl wrote: So, other than userland scripts that I created myself and know where they live, where do I search for any files/scripts created/generated/maintained by the system, for references to eth0/1 to change to net0/1? Is it just /etc/conf.d?

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-06 Thread Pandu Poluan
On Apr 6, 2013 7:32 PM, kwk...@hkbn.net wrote: On Sat, 6 Apr 2013 19:11:46 +0700 Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote: On Apr 6, 2013 3:44 PM, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Fri, 5 Apr 2013 21:14:39 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: * on a machine with multiple network cards

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-06 Thread Tanstaafl
On 2013-04-06 10:40 AM, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Sat, 06 Apr 2013 10:22:49 -0400, Tanstaafl wrote: So, other than userland scripts that I created myself and know where they live, where do I search for any files/scripts created/generated/maintained by the system, for

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-06 Thread Bruce Hill
On Sat, Apr 06, 2013 at 07:11:46PM +0700, Pandu Poluan wrote: Ahhh... I think now I understand... So. Here's my summarization of the situation: * The ethX naming can change, i.e., the interfaces can get out of order * So, to fix this, udev decided to use the physical attachment points of

[gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-06 Thread Grant Edwards
On 2013-04-06, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote: Ahhh... I think now I understand... So. Here's my summarization of the situation: * The ethX naming can change, i.e., the interfaces can get out of order * So, to fix this, udev decided to use the physical attachment points of the NIC in

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-06 Thread Michael Mol
On 04/06/2013 11:06 PM, Grant Edwards wrote: On 2013-04-06, Pandu Poluan pa...@poluan.info wrote: Ahhh... I think now I understand... So. Here's my summarization of the situation: * The ethX naming can change, i.e., the interfaces can get out of order * So, to fix this, udev decided to

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-06 Thread Walter Dnes
On Sat, Apr 06, 2013 at 09:46:13PM +0700, Pandu Poluan wrote Ah, thanks for the clarification! :-) So, from now on, for safety I'm going to use a custom naming scheme, like lan[0-9]+ or wan[0-9]+ or wifi[0-9]+, anything that won't collide with kernel names of eth[0-9]+ Now I only had to

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-05 Thread Tanstaafl
On 2013-04-03 6:28 PM, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday 03 Apr 2013 20:46:37 Bruce Hill wrote: Therefore, all's well that's still working! And AFAIR, on at least 2 of those machines, the 70-persistent-net.rules was never something I did manually. Right, it used to be

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-05 Thread William Hubbs
On Thu, Apr 04, 2013 at 09:07:00AM -0400, Tanstaafl wrote: On 2013-04-04 5:13 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: I gets so bad that people are starting to make shit up to be worried about, instead of just reading the simple document that is right in front of their eyes that

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-05 Thread Tanstaafl
But what confuses me about that linked page is that from what I've heard from others here, option 1 - which is the option I think I'd prefer - requires more than just symlinking 80-net-name-slot.rules to /dev/null...? Apparently you should also create your own 70-my-net-names.rules - but I've

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-05 Thread William Hubbs
On Fri, Apr 05, 2013 at 01:32:23PM -0400, Tanstaafl wrote: But what confuses me about that linked page is that from what I've heard from others here, option 1 - which is the option I think I'd prefer - requires more than just symlinking 80-net-name-slot.rules to /dev/null...? Apparently you

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-05 Thread Tanstaafl
On 2013-04-05 2:41 PM, William Hubbs willi...@gentoo.org wrote: On Fri, Apr 05, 2013 at 01:32:23PM -0400, Tanstaafl wrote: But what confuses me about that linked page is that from what I've heard from others here, option 1 - which is the option I think I'd prefer - requires more than just

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-05 Thread William Hubbs
On Fri, Apr 05, 2013 at 01:41:28PM -0500, William Hubbs wrote: On Fri, Apr 05, 2013 at 01:32:23PM -0400, Tanstaafl wrote: But what confuses me about that linked page is that from what I've heard from others here, option 1 - which is the option I think I'd prefer - requires more than just

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-05 Thread Bruce Hill
On Fri, Apr 05, 2013 at 01:41:28PM -0500, William Hubbs wrote: Neither of these is needed if you want to have your own names, because naming the interfaces yourself in /etc/uev/70-net-names.rules or whatever you call the file overrides udev's predictable names. If people are using ethx

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-05 Thread William Hubbs
On Fri, Apr 05, 2013 at 02:38:21PM -0500, Bruce Hill wrote: Just dealing with one server and my Linux router, they've been updated to sys-fs/udev-200 and are both still using the same /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules file they've had for over a year, which was working with udev-171.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-05 Thread William Hubbs
On Fri, Apr 05, 2013 at 02:58:02PM -0400, Tanstaafl wrote: I'd still like to know why the contents of my current rules file differs so much from the examples I've seen... ie, the two extra items that are in mine ('DRIVERS==' and 'KERNEL=='), and the missing one ('ACTION==')... and whether

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-05 Thread Bruce Hill
On Fri, Apr 05, 2013 at 03:11:39PM -0500, William Hubbs wrote: On Fri, Apr 05, 2013 at 02:38:21PM -0500, Bruce Hill wrote: Just dealing with one server and my Linux router, they've been updated to sys-fs/udev-200 and are both still using the same /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-05 Thread Walter Dnes
On Fri, Apr 05, 2013 at 01:41:28PM -0500, William Hubbs wrote If people are using ethx names and getting away with it it is probably because they are loading the drivers as modules, or by chance the kernel is initializing the cards in the order they expect. There is no guarantee that will

[gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-04 Thread Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg)
On 2013-04-01, Michael Mol mike...@gmail.com wrote: On 04/01/2013 03:26 PM, William Hubbs wrote: You know that both udev and eudev have exactly the same issue with separate /usr right? The problem there isn't in the udev code, but it has to do with what is happening in rules that other

[gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-04 Thread Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg)
On 2013-04-02, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On 02/04/2013 21:13, Paul Hartman wrote: On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Peter Humphrey pe...@humphrey.ukfsn.org wrote: The most important para to me in the news item was: The feature can also be completely disabled using

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-04 Thread Alan McKinnon
On 04/04/2013 10:10, Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg) wrote: Sort of the same here, except that I use lan0 instead of eth0, because once in a while I use broadcom's wireless drivers instead of the kernel drivers, and the former assign an ethX name. Sadly, I still get some problems after resuming

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-04 Thread Tanstaafl
On 2013-04-04 5:13 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: I gets so bad that people are starting to make shit up to be worried about, instead of just reading the simple document that is right in front of their eyes that already fully and completely answers the question at hand

[gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-04 Thread Grant Edwards
On 2013-04-03, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday 03 Apr 2013 20:46:37 Bruce Hill wrote: Therefore, all's well that's still working! And AFAIR, on at least 2 of those machines, the 70-persistent-net.rules was never something I did manually. Right, it used to be

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-04 Thread Michael Mol
On 04/04/2013 10:59 AM, Grant Edwards wrote: On 2013-04-03, Mick michaelkintz...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday 03 Apr 2013 20:46:37 Bruce Hill wrote: Therefore, all's well that's still working! And AFAIR, on at least 2 of those machines, the 70-persistent-net.rules was never something I did

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-04 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Wed, 3 Apr 2013 16:38:28 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote: Have you read the news item? Yes. I found it rather confusing. It refers to a new format for rules, but the examples use the exact same format as the old rules. Poor choice of terminology there, the format is the same only

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-04 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Thu, 04 Apr 2013 09:07:00 -0400, Tanstaafl wrote: Not to mention the fact that this final/current seemingly complete document was way, way too late for the many people who ended up with totally broken systems, and *that* is what caused all of the 'hysteria and mob-think' you so

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-04 Thread Bruce Hill
On Wed, Apr 03, 2013 at 11:28:10PM +0100, Mick wrote: On Wednesday 03 Apr 2013 20:46:37 Bruce Hill wrote: Therefore, all's well that's still working! And AFAIR, on at least 2 of those machines, the 70-persistent-net.rules was never something I did manually. Right, it used to be

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-04 Thread Walter Dnes
On Thu, Apr 04, 2013 at 05:05:06PM +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote On Thu, 04 Apr 2013 09:07:00 -0400, Tanstaafl wrote: Or, as an alternative, *how* to switch to eudev (their web page does *not* have simple/precise instructions on how to switch, only a description of what it is) - ie, do I

[gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-03 Thread Grant Edwards
On 2013-04-02, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Tue, 2 Apr 2013 20:31:10 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote: In Flameyes blog, he showed an example of using udev rules pretty much identical to the ones I already had, so I couldn't figure out what was different (other than the default

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-03 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Wed, 3 Apr 2013 15:13:12 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote: On 2013-04-02, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Tue, 2 Apr 2013 20:31:10 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote: In Flameyes blog, he showed an example of using udev rules pretty much identical to the ones I already had,

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-03 Thread Jarry
On 02-Apr-13 21:58, Alan McKinnon wrote: On 02/04/2013 21:41, Tanstaafl wrote: Are you saying that now, with udev-200, the default is the OLD way, and you have to intentionally enable the NEW way?? No, you are stilling misunderstanding. The news item goes to great lengths to explain that

[gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-03 Thread Grant Edwards
On 2013-04-03, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: Have you read the news item? Yes. I found it rather confusing. It refers to a new format for rules, but the examples use the exact same format as the old rules. It talks about how 80-net-name-slot.rules needs to be either an empty file

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-03 Thread Lee
And if it's confusing for the 'bit jockeys' on this mailing list what do you think will be the effect on the casual user? This could have been handled better, imho. What happened to that documentation mojo Gentoo is known for? The post-install notes are a real head scratcher. On Apr 3, 2013 9:40

[gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-03 Thread Jörg Schaible
Hi, Grant Edwards wrote: On 2013-04-03, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: Have you read the news item? Yes. I found it rather confusing. It refers to a new format for rules, but the examples use the exact same format as the old rules. It talks about how

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-03 Thread Bruce Hill
On Wed, Apr 03, 2013 at 08:06:20PM +0200, Jörg Schaible wrote: Hi, Grant Edwards wrote: On 2013-04-03, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: Have you read the news item? Yes. I found it rather confusing. It refers to a new format for rules, but the examples use the exact

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-03 Thread Mick
On Wednesday 03 Apr 2013 20:46:37 Bruce Hill wrote: Therefore, all's well that's still working! And AFAIR, on at least 2 of those machines, the 70-persistent-net.rules was never something I did manually. Right, it used to be auto-generated by udev scripts. With udev-200 you are meant to

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-02 Thread Paul Hartman
On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Peter Humphrey pe...@humphrey.ukfsn.org wrote: The most important para to me in the news item was: The feature can also be completely disabled using net.ifnames=0 on the kernel command line. I just added that to my grub.conf entries and I sail blissfully on with

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-02 Thread Alan McKinnon
On 02/04/2013 21:13, Paul Hartman wrote: On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Peter Humphrey pe...@humphrey.ukfsn.org wrote: The most important para to me in the news item was: The feature can also be completely disabled using net.ifnames=0 on the kernel command line. I just added that to my

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-02 Thread Jarry
On 02-Apr-13 21:13, Paul Hartman wrote: On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Peter Humphrey pe...@humphrey.ukfsn.org wrote: The most important para to me in the news item was: The feature can also be completely disabled using net.ifnames=0 on the kernel command line. I just added that to my

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-02 Thread Tanstaafl
On 2013-04-02 3:21 PM, Jarry mr.ja...@gmail.com wrote: On 02-Apr-13 21:13, Paul Hartman wrote: On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Peter Humphrey pe...@humphrey.ukfsn.org wrote: The most important para to me in the news item was: The feature can also be completely disabled using net.ifnames=0 on

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-02 Thread Alan McKinnon
On 02/04/2013 21:41, Tanstaafl wrote: On 2013-04-02 3:21 PM, Jarry mr.ja...@gmail.com wrote: On 02-Apr-13 21:13, Paul Hartman wrote: On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Peter Humphrey pe...@humphrey.ukfsn.org wrote: The most important para to me in the news item was: The feature can also be

[gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-02 Thread Grant Edwards
On 2013-04-02, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: No, you are stilling misunderstanding. He's not the only one. The news item goes to great lengths to explain that there is a new way and it is different from the old way. I did grok that much. I had a 70-persistent-net.rules file

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-02 Thread Alan McKinnon
On 02/04/2013 22:31, Grant Edwards wrote: On 2013-04-02, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: No, you are stilling misunderstanding. He's not the only one. The news item goes to great lengths to explain that there is a new way and it is different from the old way. I did grok

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-02 Thread Marc Joliet
Am Tue, 2 Apr 2013 20:31:10 + (UTC) schrieb Grant Edwards grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com: On 2013-04-02, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: No, you are stilling misunderstanding. He's not the only one. The news item goes to great lengths to explain that there is a new way

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-02 Thread Marc Joliet
Am Tue, 2 Apr 2013 23:15:40 +0200 schrieb Marc Joliet mar...@gmx.de: Am Tue, 2 Apr 2013 20:31:10 + (UTC) schrieb Grant Edwards grant.b.edwa...@gmail.com: On 2013-04-02, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: No, you are stilling misunderstanding. He's not the only one.

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-02 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Tue, 2 Apr 2013 20:31:10 + (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote: In Flameyes blog, he showed an example of using udev rules pretty much identical to the ones I already had, so I couldn't figure out what was different (other than the default interface names, which still aren't really

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-01 Thread Pandu Poluan
On Apr 1, 2013 2:10 AM, Alan McKinnon alan.mckin...@gmail.com wrote: On 31/03/2013 20:26, Dale wrote: Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg) wrote: On 2013-03-31, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Pandu Poluan wrote: Since it's obvious that upsteam has this my way or the highway mentality, I'm

Re: [Bulk] [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-01 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Sun, 31 Mar 2013 21:34:51 +0100, Kevin Chadwick wrote: What about USB network adaptors? A user may not even realise they plugged it into a different USB slot from last time, yet the device name changes. Fair point but wouldn't that be only if you plug in two of the same type that

Re: [Bulk] [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-01 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 03:02:51 +0200, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: What about USB network adaptors? A user may not even realise they plugged it into a different USB slot from last time, yet the device name changes. congratulation, you just found another reason why today's udev sucks. I take

Re: [Bulk] [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-01 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Sun, 31 Mar 2013 15:40:09 +0100, Kevin Chadwick wrote: I find the OpenBSD method of different names like fxp0 usefuk You can emulate that with suitable (e)udev rules. -- Neil Bothwick Computers are like Old Testament gods; lots of rules and no mercy. signature.asc Description: PGP

Re: [Bulk] [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-01 Thread Pandu Poluan
On Apr 1, 2013 1:54 PM, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Sun, 31 Mar 2013 21:34:51 +0100, Kevin Chadwick wrote: What about USB network adaptors? A user may not even realise they plugged it into a different USB slot from last time, yet the device name changes. Fair point

Re: [Bulk] [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-01 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Mon, 1 Apr 2013 13:57:42 +0700, Pandu Poluan wrote: I still don't understand what's so bad with MAC-based identification? I mean, uniqueness defined through MAC Address identity, the system name is just a label... MAC addresses are not human-friendly. It would be OK if you could set up

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-01 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Sun, 31 Mar 2013 16:19:18 -0400, Tanstaafl wrote: What the article didn't mention was that if you change your interface names, you have to create a new symlink in /etc/init.d and add it to the default runlevel. I'm glad I spotted that one before rebooting:) So, just ln -s

Re: [Bulk] [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-01 Thread Michael Mol
On 04/01/2013 09:12 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Mon, 1 Apr 2013 13:57:42 +0700, Pandu Poluan wrote: I still don't understand what's so bad with MAC-based identification? I mean, uniqueness defined through MAC Address identity, the system name is just a label... MAC addresses are not

Re: [Bulk] [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-01 Thread Kevin Chadwick
On Mon, 1 Apr 2013 14:12:17 +0100 Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: I still don't understand what's so bad with MAC-based identification? I mean, uniqueness defined through MAC Address identity, the system name is just a label... MAC addresses are not human-friendly. It would be

Re: [Bulk] [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-01 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 09:29:08 -0400, Michael Mol wrote: MAC addresses are not human-friendly. It would be OK if you could set up aliases, so your firewall rules could use enaabbccddeeff while you could still type eth0. Frankly, I never found 'eth0' to be particularly friendly, either.

Re: [Bulk] [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-01 Thread Michael Mol
On 04/01/2013 09:54 AM, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Mon, 01 Apr 2013 09:29:08 -0400, Michael Mol wrote: MAC addresses are not human-friendly. It would be OK if you could set up aliases, so your firewall rules could use enaabbccddeeff while you could still type eth0. Frankly, I never found

[gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-01 Thread »Q«
On Sun, 31 Mar 2013 18:37:07 + (UTC) Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg) nunojsi...@ist.utl.pt wrote: On 2013-03-31, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg) wrote: On 2013-03-31, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Pandu Poluan wrote: Since it's obvious that upsteam has this

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-01 Thread William Hubbs
On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 01:44:18PM -0500, Dale wrote: Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg) wrote: On 2013-03-31, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg) wrote: On 2013-03-31, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Pandu Poluan wrote: Since it's obvious that upsteam has this my way or

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-01 Thread Michael Mol
On 04/01/2013 03:26 PM, William Hubbs wrote: On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 01:44:18PM -0500, Dale wrote: Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg) wrote: On 2013-03-31, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg) wrote: On 2013-03-31, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Pandu Poluan wrote: Since it's

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-01 Thread Dale
Michael Mol wrote: On 04/01/2013 03:26 PM, William Hubbs wrote: On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 01:44:18PM -0500, Dale wrote: Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg) wrote: On 2013-03-31, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg) wrote: On 2013-03-31, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Pandu Poluan

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-04-01 Thread Peter Humphrey
On Monday 01 April 2013 20:51:45 Michael Mol wrote: ---8 So, there are three conceivable configurations (initramfs notwithstanding): What a fine word! It's a while since I saw it last. 1. With systems which don't require /usr binaries before /usr would be mounted, separate /usr is not a

[gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-03-31 Thread Nikos Chantziaras
On 30/03/13 17:15, Tanstaafl wrote: Ok, just read the new news item and the linked udev-guide wiki page You should probably also read: http://blog.flameeyes.eu/2013/03/predictably-non-persistent-names and: http://blog.flameeyes.eu/2013/03/predictable-persistently-non-mnemonic-names

[gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-03-31 Thread Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg)
On 2013-03-31, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote: On 30/03/13 17:15, Tanstaafl wrote: Ok, just read the new news item and the linked udev-guide wiki page You should probably also read: http://blog.flameeyes.eu/2013/03/predictably-non-persistent-names and:

[gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-03-31 Thread Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg)
On 2013-03-31, Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg) nunojsi...@ist.utl.pt wrote: On 2013-03-31, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote: On 30/03/13 17:15, Tanstaafl wrote: Ok, just read the new news item and the linked udev-guide wiki page You should probably also read:

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-03-31 Thread Pandu Poluan
On Mar 31, 2013 7:13 PM, Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg) nunojsi...@ist.utl.pt wrote: On 2013-03-31, Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg) nunojsi...@ist.utl.pt wrote: On 2013-03-31, Nikos Chantziaras rea...@gmail.com wrote: On 30/03/13 17:15, Tanstaafl wrote: Ok, just read the new news item and the linked

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-03-31 Thread Dale
Pandu Poluan wrote: Since it's obvious that upsteam has this my way or the highway mentality, I'm curious about whether eudev (and mdev) exhibits the same behavior... Rgds, -- I synced yesterday and I didn't see the news alert. Last eudev update was in Feb. so I *guess* not. It seems

[gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-03-31 Thread Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg)
On 2013-03-31, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Pandu Poluan wrote: Since it's obvious that upsteam has this my way or the highway mentality, I'm curious about whether eudev (and mdev) exhibits the same behavior... I synced yesterday and I didn't see the news alert. Last eudev update

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-03-31 Thread Dale
Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg) wrote: On 2013-03-31, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Pandu Poluan wrote: Since it's obvious that upsteam has this my way or the highway mentality, I'm curious about whether eudev (and mdev) exhibits the same behavior... I synced yesterday and I didn't see the

[gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-03-31 Thread Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg)
On 2013-03-31, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg) wrote: On 2013-03-31, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Pandu Poluan wrote: Since it's obvious that upsteam has this my way or the highway mentality, I'm curious about whether eudev (and mdev) exhibits the same

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-03-31 Thread Dale
Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg) wrote: On 2013-03-31, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg) wrote: On 2013-03-31, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Pandu Poluan wrote: Since it's obvious that upsteam has this my way or the highway mentality, I'm curious about whether eudev (and

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-03-31 Thread Alan McKinnon
On 31/03/2013 20:26, Dale wrote: Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg) wrote: On 2013-03-31, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Pandu Poluan wrote: Since it's obvious that upsteam has this my way or the highway mentality, I'm curious about whether eudev (and mdev) exhibits the same behavior... I synced

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-03-31 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Sun, 31 Mar 2013 13:44:18 -0500, Dale wrote: I'm just hoping people will be able to find a solution to this that works well for them. I especially wish that for those managing a remote system with little or no physical access. Well I just updated a headless box, followed the instructions

Re: [Bulk] [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-03-31 Thread Kevin Chadwick
On Sun, 31 Mar 2013 11:48:19 + (UTC) Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg) nunojsi...@ist.utl.pt wrote: instead of pushing a completely different (and possibly less reliable) naming scheme by default. Whilst I wouldn't want them changing on me (though if your physically changing the pci slot then you

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-03-31 Thread Dale
Alan McKinnon wrote: On 31/03/2013 20:26, Dale wrote: Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg) wrote: On 2013-03-31, Dale rdalek1...@gmail.com wrote: Pandu Poluan wrote: Since it's obvious that upsteam has this my way or the highway mentality, I'm curious about whether eudev (and mdev) exhibits the same

Re: [Bulk] [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-03-31 Thread Neil Bothwick
On Sun, 31 Mar 2013 15:40:09 +0100, Kevin Chadwick wrote: instead of pushing a completely different (and possibly less reliable) naming scheme by default. Whilst I wouldn't want them changing on me (though if your physically changing the pci slot then you should be able to handle the

Re: [Bulk] [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-03-31 Thread Michael Mol
On 03/31/2013 03:55 PM, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Sun, 31 Mar 2013 15:40:09 +0100, Kevin Chadwick wrote: instead of pushing a completely different (and possibly less reliable) naming scheme by default. Whilst I wouldn't want them changing on me (though if your physically changing the pci

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-03-31 Thread Tanstaafl
On 2013-03-31 3:37 PM, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: What the article didn't mention was that if you change your interface names, you have to create a new symlink in /etc/init.d and add it to the default runlevel. I'm glad I spotted that one before rebooting:) So, just ln -s

Re: [Bulk] [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-03-31 Thread Kevin Chadwick
On Sun, 31 Mar 2013 20:55:00 +0100 Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: What about USB network adaptors? A user may not even realise they plugged it into a different USB slot from last time, yet the device name changes. Fair point but wouldn't that be only if you plug in two of the same

[gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-03-31 Thread Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg)
On 2013-03-31, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: On Sun, 31 Mar 2013 13:44:18 -0500, Dale wrote: I'm just hoping people will be able to find a solution to this that works well for them. I especially wish that for those managing a remote system with little or no physical access.=20

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-03-31 Thread Mick
On Sunday 31 Mar 2013 21:19:18 Tanstaafl wrote: On 2013-03-31 3:37 PM, Neil Bothwick n...@digimed.co.uk wrote: What the article didn't mention was that if you change your interface names, you have to create a new symlink in /etc/init.d and add it to the default runlevel. I'm glad I spotted

Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-03-31 Thread William Kenworthy
On 01/04/13 01:01, Dale wrote: Pandu Poluan wrote: Since it's obvious that upsteam has this my way or the highway mentality, I'm curious about whether eudev (and mdev) exhibits the same behavior... Rgds, -- I synced yesterday and I didn't see the news alert. Last eudev update was

Re: [Bulk] [gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-03-31 Thread Volker Armin Hemmann
Am 31.03.2013 21:55, schrieb Neil Bothwick: On Sun, 31 Mar 2013 15:40:09 +0100, Kevin Chadwick wrote: instead of pushing a completely different (and possibly less reliable) naming scheme by default. Whilst I wouldn't want them changing on me (though if your physically changing the pci slot

[gentoo-user] Re: Udev update and persistent net rules changes

2013-03-30 Thread Nuno J. Silva (aka njsg)
On 2013-03-30, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote: Ok, just read the new news item and the linked udev-guide wiki page, and the only thing left that I'm unsure/concerned about now is the persistent net rules changes... The very last line on the wiki page says: 4. Known problems