Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help: boot loader info
On 19/10/2023 12:55, Neil Bothwick wrote: On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 23:49:25 -0500, Dale wrote: That config kinda reminds me of the old grub. A title line, location of kernel and then options. Sounds easy enough. The new grub config is almost impossible to config by hand. They had to make a tool to do it. That says a lot there. ;-) GRUB2 was designed to be able to create a config for anything automatically, such as from an installer. It does that very well, but is total overkill for Gentoo-like people that like to stay in control. Such a shame it doesn't work. :-) I tried to install SUSE dual boot, and it broke the installer - NOTHING would boot. I needed a rescue disk to fix the mess ... Cheers, Wol
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help: boot loader info
Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 09:45:10 -0500, Dale wrote: > >>> I like rEFIind, but I recall it needs/needed a separate /boot >>> partition if you are running LVM/RAID. >>> >> I have /boot on ext2, / on ext4 and rest on LVM on my main system. On >> the 770T rig, I have /boot on ext2 I think and everything else on ext4. > If you are using EFI, you need a FAT partition as the ESP, so you may as > well make that /boot to keep things simple. > > Yea. I read somewhere that is the correct way. I think that is picked because everything, including Linux, can read that file system. I think I read somewhere that the mobo has to be able to read that and it's not like mobos on their own have a lot of space for BIOS stuff or whatever what EFI mobos use is called. I'll likely watch some youtube videos and read some howtos shortly before the mobo, CPU and such start coming in. No need doing that now. I have trouble remembering what I went to the kitchen for. :/ Dale :-) :-)
[gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help: boot loader info
On 2023-10-19, Dale wrote:
> That config kinda reminds me of the old grub. A title line, location of
> kernel and then options. Sounds easy enough. The new grub config is
> almost impossible to config by hand. They had to make a tool to do it.
> That says a lot there. ;-)
Manually configuring Grub2 for a single OS is pretty trivial. Here's
a typical grub.cfg file:
-grub.cfg
timeout=10
default=0
root (hd0,0)
menuentry vmlinuz-5.15.135-gentoo {
linux /boot/vmlinuz-5.15.135-gentoo root=/dev/sda1
}
menuentry vmlinuz-5.10.76-gentoo-r1 {
linux /boot/vmlinuz-5.10.76-gentoo-r1 root=/dev/sda1
}
If you want to get fancy and use labels and UUIDs, it looks like this
--grub.cfg--
search --no-floppy --label ROOT --set root
timeout=10
default=0
menuentry vmlinuz-5.15.135-gentoo {
linux /boot/vmlinuz-5.15.135-gentoo
root=PARTUUID=fd96ac2d-5521-c043-9fdb-5067b48fb063
}
menuentry vmlinuz-5.15.127-gentoo {
linux /boot/vmlinuz-5.15.127-gentoo
root=PARTUUID=fd96ac2d-5521-c043-9fdb-5067b48fb063
}
Most distros add 2 or 3 layers of obsfucation on top of grub.cfg with
scripts upon scripts upon scripts that read a dozen or so config files
and automagically detect kernels and initrds and other OSes and then
generate a grub.cfg file containing many hundreds of lines of stuff.
If you just boot one OS with a "main" kernel and a "backup" kernel,
then all you need is what you see above.
RE: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help: boot loader info
> >That config kinda reminds me of the old grub. A title line, location of >kernel and then options. Sounds easy enough. The new grub config is almost >impossible to config by hand. They had to make a tool to do it. That says a >lot there. ;-) > >Dale > You can still write that kind of config for the new grub if you want. Load what drivers you need, and then a menuentry with title, kernel, initramfs, etc. The rest of the boilerplate is to support dynamically finding the boot drive if something changes with your disks and to enable tools like grub-reboot. Handy features, and the grub-mkconfig is quicker and easier than editing even a simple config by hand. But if you really want to do it yourself that still works. LMP
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help
Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 18:24:41 -0500, Dale wrote: > >>> Do you mean booting from the ISO images? That's a GRUB thing, it >>> doesn't matter how it is loaded, EFI or MBR. >>> >>> However, being able to do away with GRUB is, to me, a bigger benefit >>> than not being able to boot ISOs is a drawback. Use either >>> systemd-boot (it doesn't need systemd) or rEFInd. >> On my main rig, BIOS type, in my /boot I have memtest. Grub adds a >> entry for it. I guess I could also but Knoppix or something in there as >> well. I was just wondering if that is still a option with efi. I'd >> think it is. After all, it's like like being able to boot either Linux >> or windoze. Lots of people dual boot and I'm sure efi hasn't changed >> that. > Oh yes, you can boot memtest because that's a ramdisk image, it's only > ISOs that are restricted to Grub. Having said that, many live distros can > be booted from any bootloader if you copy the files from the ISO. I > always have SystemRescue in my /boot partition. > > I think it was Frank that posted about Ventoy. When I was installing stuff on the 770T, I used that. I got Knoppix, Ubuntu, Debian, memtest, a couple Gentoo thing, CRC which I think replaced Systemrescue and Systemrescue itself. I really like that thing. It's awesome. Still, when I build the new rig, I'm going to try to make /boot around 6 or 8GBs. That should be big enough for several images and remain large enough as they grow. Options. So many options. lol Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help: boot loader info
On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 09:45:10 -0500, Dale wrote: > > I like rEFIind, but I recall it needs/needed a separate /boot > > partition if you are running LVM/RAID. > > > > I have /boot on ext2, / on ext4 and rest on LVM on my main system. On > the 770T rig, I have /boot on ext2 I think and everything else on ext4. If you are using EFI, you need a FAT partition as the ESP, so you may as well make that /boot to keep things simple. -- Neil Bothwick An expert is nothing more than an ordinary person away from home. pgps3LiqZUghE.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help: boot loader info
On Thursday, 19 October 2023 12:59:06 BST Neil Bothwick wrote: > Incidentally, systemd-boot can also generate and update boot menu entries > automatically with "bootctl install" and "bootctl update" although I have > never tried either. Yes, that's what I use. Once your kernel is complete, with ramdisk etc., make a copy of /boot somewhere, then "bootctl install", copy the loader.conf from your copy, then "bootctl update". Older versions of bootctl used to create a /boot// directory, where nn was a 32-digit hex number, in which we were supposed to put our boot entries: far too complex for Gentoo, so I just deleted that directory. -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help: boot loader info
Michael wrote: > On Thursday, 19 October 2023 05:49:25 BST Dale wrote: >> Neil Bothwick wrote: >>> On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 17:27:28 -0500, Dale wrote: I used cgdisk and GPT for my disk even tho it is small, only 300GBs or so, mostly out of habit. The grub install failed and I did a search. I found this and it worked. grub-install fails with "grub-install: warning: this GPT partition label contains no BIOS Boot Partition; embedding won't be possible." > If you are booting a BIOS MoBo, or an EFI MoBo in 'BIOS Legacy' mode, from a > disk which contains a GPT partitioning scheme, then you will need a separate > partition created as type 'BIOS Boot Partition' for GRUB to install its > core.img: > > GRUB's Stage 1 boot.img is still installed in sector 0 on a GPT disk, same as > on a disk with an MBR partition table. However, on a GPT disk GRUB's Stage > 1.5 core.img with all its filesystem drivers has to be installed in a > partition of its own, because unlike an MBR disk sectors 1 to 62 are not > empty > but contain the GPT header and the GPT partition list. Without its > filesystem > drivers GRUB won't be able to access its modules in its Stage 2 filesystem, > which is stored in the OS /boot/ partition, or its grubx64.efi UEFI > executable. > > It helps to get straight before you start an installation what combo of MoBo > and type of disk partition tables you intend to use: > > BIOS Vs EFI > MBR Vs GPT > When I did the install on the old 770T, I used GPT, out of habit to be honest. I have very few small drives here. Heck, I'm up to buying 18TB drives now. Anyway, grub gave me a error when I tried to install it. I searched and found the sequence of commands that I posted in another reply. It uses parted. Anyway, it worked after that. Thing is, by the time you get to the part about installing grub, you have also installed most of the OS. Going back and using MBR means reinstalling. I plan to check into those parted commands and see what it does and if I can grasp it. :/ >>> Simple answer, don't use GRUB :-) >>> >>> Seriously, GRUB is a bootloader, EFI is a bootloader. You are using one >>> bootloader to load another bootloader before booting the system. >>> >>> rEFIind and systemd-boot are both boot managers, they work with the EFI >>> bootloader - or you can boot a kernel directly without a boot manager, >>> but I prefer not to do that as it gives no opportunity to edit options >>> when booting. > I like rEFIind, but I recall it needs/needed a separate /boot partition if > you > are running LVM/RAID. > I have /boot on ext2, / on ext4 and rest on LVM on my main system. On the 770T rig, I have /boot on ext2 I think and everything else on ext4. I don't think I used LVM on it. I even put /usr and /var on the / partition. I didn't get fancy or anything. I did put /home on its own partition. I'm not sure why really. I'll look into rEFIind then. If you like it, it has to be good. ;-) >>> If you like simple, here is a config file I use with systemd-boot >>> >>> version 6.1.57-gentoo >>> linux /vmlinuz-6.1.57-gentoo >>> options root=/dev/sda3 panic=10 net.ifnames=0 i915.enable_ips=0 >>> >>> That's it! There is a separate file for each menu entry, but they are >>> this simple. There's also a global loader.conf, that runs to a massive 2 >>> lines here! >> Right now, I'm still using BIOS type boot. I've read where you and a >> couple others use something else and they do sound good but I just >> haven't got the nerve up to switch. When I build a new rig, I'll likely >> get into some other boot manager. In a way I kinda dread it but on the >> other hand, I just might like it. You and several others make the other >> options sound really good. >> >> That config kinda reminds me of the old grub. A title line, location of >> kernel and then options. Sounds easy enough. The new grub config is >> almost impossible to config by hand. They had to make a tool to do it. >> That says a lot there. ;-) > Not really, the GRUB developers were trying to make maintaining a boot > manager > simpler by scripting the process and offering to hook it up from binary > distros' kernel install scripts. Anyway, you can still write the > configuration by hand if you follow the GRUB2 syntax. You do not need to run > GRUB's grub-mkconfig script to automatically update the grub.cfg file if you > prefer to do it manually, but it is certainly simpler to use it since it is > already there for you. > The one thing I like about the new grub, if the kernel is named wrong, the init thingy is named wrong or some other problem with the config, it will tell you when you run the script. I always check to make sure it finds both the kernel and init thingy in sets. I have three kernels I think and one init thingy for each. They should list in pairs. If I name one wrong, it will miss it. With the old grub, you found out you messed up when you rebooted
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help: boot loader info
On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 12:55:43 +0100, Neil Bothwick wrote: > > That config kinda reminds me of the old grub. A title line, location > > of kernel and then options. Sounds easy enough. The new grub config > > is almost impossible to config by hand. They had to make a tool to > > do it. That says a lot there. ;-) > > GRUB2 was designed to be able to create a config for anything > automatically, such as from an installer. It does that very well, but is > total overkill for Gentoo-like people that like to stay in control. Incidentally, systemd-boot can also generate and update boot menu entries automatically with "bootctl install" and "bootctl update" although I have never tried either. -- Neil Bothwick STATUS QUO is Latin for "the mess we're in." pgp0FGL_4LVxf.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help: boot loader info
On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 23:49:25 -0500, Dale wrote: > That config kinda reminds me of the old grub. A title line, location of > kernel and then options. Sounds easy enough. The new grub config is > almost impossible to config by hand. They had to make a tool to do it. > That says a lot there. ;-) GRUB2 was designed to be able to create a config for anything automatically, such as from an installer. It does that very well, but is total overkill for Gentoo-like people that like to stay in control. -- Neil Bothwick Keep your words soft and sweet in case you have to eat them. pgpkxfqnMfxX7.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help
On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 18:24:41 -0500, Dale wrote: > > Do you mean booting from the ISO images? That's a GRUB thing, it > > doesn't matter how it is loaded, EFI or MBR. > > > > However, being able to do away with GRUB is, to me, a bigger benefit > > than not being able to boot ISOs is a drawback. Use either > > systemd-boot (it doesn't need systemd) or rEFInd. > On my main rig, BIOS type, in my /boot I have memtest. Grub adds a > entry for it. I guess I could also but Knoppix or something in there as > well. I was just wondering if that is still a option with efi. I'd > think it is. After all, it's like like being able to boot either Linux > or windoze. Lots of people dual boot and I'm sure efi hasn't changed > that. Oh yes, you can boot memtest because that's a ramdisk image, it's only ISOs that are restricted to Grub. Having said that, many live distros can be booted from any bootloader if you copy the files from the ISO. I always have SystemRescue in my /boot partition. -- Neil Bothwick Linux users do it without paying a Bill pgpf6f1DRtnlA.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help
On Thursday, 19 October 2023 00:06:43 BST Neil Bothwick wrote: > If you like simple, here is a config file I use with systemd-boot > > version 6.1.57-gentoo > linux /vmlinuz-6.1.57-gentoo > options root=/dev/sda3 panic=10 net.ifnames=0 i915.enable_ips=0 > > That's it! There is a separate file for each menu entry, but they are > this simple. There's also a global loader.conf, that runs to a massive 2 > lines here! Just to expand this in case it helps someone, and because the wiki article on systemd-boot is not very helpful: I like to keep one recent kernel along with the current one, as fallback. I also have a small rescue partition on the same disk, and that also has two kernels. The main system has a choice of three boot options: standard, no X and no network, and the rescue system the same but without the no-X. That gives the following structure on this machine: # ls -1 /boot/v* /boot/vmlinuz-6.1.46-gentoo /boot/vmlinuz-6.1.46-gentoo-rescue /boot/vmlinuz-6.1.57-gentoo /boot/vmlinuz-6.1.57-gentoo-rescue # tree -L 3 /boot/loader /boot/loader ├── entries │ ├── 06-gentoo-rescue-6.1.46.conf │ ├── 07-gentoo-rescue-6.1.46.nonet.conf │ ├── 08-gentoo-rescue-6.1.46.conf │ ├── 09-gentoo-rescue-6.1.46.nonet.conf │ ├── 30-gentoo-6.1.57.conf │ ├── 32-gentoo-6.1.57.nox.conf │ ├── 34-gentoo-6.1.57.nonet.conf │ ├── 40-gentoo-6.1.46.conf │ ├── 42-gentoo-6.1.46.nox.conf │ └── 44-gentoo-6.1.46.nonet.conf ├── loader.conf └── random-seed The random seed was put there by systemd-boot. I think I have most eventualities covered. (Hah!) -- Regards, Peter.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help: boot loader info
On Thursday, 19 October 2023 05:49:25 BST Dale wrote: > Neil Bothwick wrote: > > On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 17:27:28 -0500, Dale wrote: > >> I used cgdisk and GPT for my disk even tho it is small, only 300GBs or > >> so, mostly out of habit. The grub install failed and I did a search. I > >> found this and it worked. > >> > >> > >> > >> grub-install fails with "grub-install: warning: this GPT partition label > >> contains no BIOS Boot Partition; embedding won't be possible." If you are booting a BIOS MoBo, or an EFI MoBo in 'BIOS Legacy' mode, from a disk which contains a GPT partitioning scheme, then you will need a separate partition created as type 'BIOS Boot Partition' for GRUB to install its core.img: GRUB's Stage 1 boot.img is still installed in sector 0 on a GPT disk, same as on a disk with an MBR partition table. However, on a GPT disk GRUB's Stage 1.5 core.img with all its filesystem drivers has to be installed in a partition of its own, because unlike an MBR disk sectors 1 to 62 are not empty but contain the GPT header and the GPT partition list. Without its filesystem drivers GRUB won't be able to access its modules in its Stage 2 filesystem, which is stored in the OS /boot/ partition, or its grubx64.efi UEFI executable. It helps to get straight before you start an installation what combo of MoBo and type of disk partition tables you intend to use: BIOS Vs EFI MBR Vs GPT > > Simple answer, don't use GRUB :-) > > > > Seriously, GRUB is a bootloader, EFI is a bootloader. You are using one > > bootloader to load another bootloader before booting the system. > > > > rEFIind and systemd-boot are both boot managers, they work with the EFI > > bootloader - or you can boot a kernel directly without a boot manager, > > but I prefer not to do that as it gives no opportunity to edit options > > when booting. I like rEFIind, but I recall it needs/needed a separate /boot partition if you are running LVM/RAID. > > If you like simple, here is a config file I use with systemd-boot > > > > version 6.1.57-gentoo > > linux /vmlinuz-6.1.57-gentoo > > options root=/dev/sda3 panic=10 net.ifnames=0 i915.enable_ips=0 > > > > That's it! There is a separate file for each menu entry, but they are > > this simple. There's also a global loader.conf, that runs to a massive 2 > > lines here! > > Right now, I'm still using BIOS type boot. I've read where you and a > couple others use something else and they do sound good but I just > haven't got the nerve up to switch. When I build a new rig, I'll likely > get into some other boot manager. In a way I kinda dread it but on the > other hand, I just might like it. You and several others make the other > options sound really good. > > That config kinda reminds me of the old grub. A title line, location of > kernel and then options. Sounds easy enough. The new grub config is > almost impossible to config by hand. They had to make a tool to do it. > That says a lot there. ;-) Not really, the GRUB developers were trying to make maintaining a boot manager simpler by scripting the process and offering to hook it up from binary distros' kernel install scripts. Anyway, you can still write the configuration by hand if you follow the GRUB2 syntax. You do not need to run GRUB's grub-mkconfig script to automatically update the grub.cfg file if you prefer to do it manually, but it is certainly simpler to use it since it is already there for you. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help: boot loader info
Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 17:27:28 -0500, Dale wrote: > >> I used cgdisk and GPT for my disk even tho it is small, only 300GBs or >> so, mostly out of habit. The grub install failed and I did a search. I >> found this and it worked. >> >> >> >> grub-install fails with "grub-install: warning: this GPT partition label >> contains no BIOS Boot Partition; embedding won't be possible." > Simple answer, don't use GRUB :-) > > Seriously, GRUB is a bootloader, EFI is a bootloader. You are using one > bootloader to load another bootloader before booting the system. > > rEFIind and systemd-boot are both boot managers, they work with the EFI > bootloader - or you can boot a kernel directly without a boot manager, > but I prefer not to do that as it gives no opportunity to edit options > when booting. > > If you like simple, here is a config file I use with systemd-boot > > version 6.1.57-gentoo > linux /vmlinuz-6.1.57-gentoo > options root=/dev/sda3 panic=10 net.ifnames=0 i915.enable_ips=0 > > That's it! There is a separate file for each menu entry, but they are > this simple. There's also a global loader.conf, that runs to a massive 2 > lines here! > > Right now, I'm still using BIOS type boot. I've read where you and a couple others use something else and they do sound good but I just haven't got the nerve up to switch. When I build a new rig, I'll likely get into some other boot manager. In a way I kinda dread it but on the other hand, I just might like it. You and several others make the other options sound really good. That config kinda reminds me of the old grub. A title line, location of kernel and then options. Sounds easy enough. The new grub config is almost impossible to config by hand. They had to make a tool to do it. That says a lot there. ;-) I wish I could build the new rig tomorrow. Gotta buy the stuff first tho. Well, first, I gotta find a good mobo I like. I got a CPU cooler in. I got video cards, cables and such in route. Next month, case. Next month, likely a power supply and maybe a couple other small things. Then comes the big things. Mobo, CPU and memory. Ka ching. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help
Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 12:49:34 -0500, Dale wrote: > >> I usually use cgdisk, or cfdisk, but they all do the same thing. Just a >> different interface. As long as all this is documented, I'll just >> follow it and it should work. After all, efi has been around for a long >> while now. I'm sure millions of people have it installed, likely >> billions. >> >> I do wonder, can one still put things like memtest, Knoppix and such in >> that thing? I'm sure it can be done but never seen it mentioned. I >> started to put it on the old 770T but didn't now that I have that Ventoy >> USB thing. > Do you mean booting from the ISO images? That's a GRUB thing, it doesn't > matter how it is loaded, EFI or MBR. > > However, being able to do away with GRUB is, to me, a bigger benefit than > not being able to boot ISOs is a drawback. Use either systemd-boot (it > doesn't need systemd) or rEFInd. > > On my main rig, BIOS type, in my /boot I have memtest. Grub adds a entry for it. I guess I could also but Knoppix or something in there as well. I was just wondering if that is still a option with efi. I'd think it is. After all, it's like like being able to boot either Linux or windoze. Lots of people dual boot and I'm sure efi hasn't changed that. I kinda like grub myself. Sort of miss the old one but still. It does work well even if it does install a lot of kitchen appliances. ;-) Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help
On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 17:27:28 -0500, Dale wrote: > I used cgdisk and GPT for my disk even tho it is small, only 300GBs or > so, mostly out of habit. The grub install failed and I did a search. I > found this and it worked. > > > > grub-install fails with "grub-install: warning: this GPT partition label > contains no BIOS Boot Partition; embedding won't be possible." Simple answer, don't use GRUB :-) Seriously, GRUB is a bootloader, EFI is a bootloader. You are using one bootloader to load another bootloader before booting the system. rEFIind and systemd-boot are both boot managers, they work with the EFI bootloader - or you can boot a kernel directly without a boot manager, but I prefer not to do that as it gives no opportunity to edit options when booting. If you like simple, here is a config file I use with systemd-boot version 6.1.57-gentoo linux /vmlinuz-6.1.57-gentoo options root=/dev/sda3 panic=10 net.ifnames=0 i915.enable_ips=0 That's it! There is a separate file for each menu entry, but they are this simple. There's also a global loader.conf, that runs to a massive 2 lines here! -- Neil Bothwick If you catch an exploding manhole cover, you can keep it. pgpZ0GJ2LcQL0.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help
Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2023-10-18, Michael wrote: >>> The protective MBR and the BIOS boot partition are two different, >>> unrelated things. The BIOS boot partition is a real partition (usually >>> 1-2MB in size) that's present in the GPT parition table. It's used by >>> Grub as a place to store its files. >> Yes, this is needed on GPT disks when installed on BIOS MoBos. > There is a way to install Grub on GPT disks without it, but it takes > extra work and isn't worth it. You have to lock certain files in place > under /boot/grub so that block-lists can be embedded in sector 0. > > All of the disk label utilities I've seen recently will, by default, > leave a sizable empty space between the primary GPT table and the > start of the first partition (which typically starts at a 1MB offset > from the start of the disk). I've never understood why Grub won't use > that space they way it will use the empty space between an MBR and the > first partition. > >>> It must be the first partition, and it doesn't have a real >>> filesystem (grub uses some sort of private filesystem): >> I'm not sure it uses any filesystem. I understood it uses a raw sector jump >> from the MBR to the GPT partition type 0xEE. > I've read a couple vague but differing descriptions of it. One > description specifically referred to "files" (plural) and some sort of > grub-private-internal filesystem. However, it could be that it's > nothing but a single "file" starting at block 0 in that partition. > Whatever it is, it seems to be "opaque" in that Grub puts stuff in > that partition, Grub later uses that stuff, and nobody else needs to > know or care what it is or how it's organized. I haven't looked > through the Grub source code to try to see inside the black box... > > -- > Grant > I used cgdisk and GPT for my disk even tho it is small, only 300GBs or so, mostly out of habit. The grub install failed and I did a search. I found this and it worked. grub-install fails with "grub-install: warning: this GPT partition label contains no BIOS Boot Partition; embedding won't be possible." Using parted command. # parted /dev/sda # set 1 boot off # set 1 bios_grub on # q # then install grub. This happens on drives where GPT is used instead of MBR. This may be something you want to make note of. I guess it changes the way grub sees it or something. Anyway, it worked fine after that so may be worth making a note of in case one of you ever needs it. Dale :-) :-) P. S. My off topic Ubuntu thread is covering a lot of strange things. LOL
[gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help
On 2023-10-18, Michael wrote: > >> The protective MBR and the BIOS boot partition are two different, >> unrelated things. The BIOS boot partition is a real partition (usually >> 1-2MB in size) that's present in the GPT parition table. It's used by >> Grub as a place to store its files. > > Yes, this is needed on GPT disks when installed on BIOS MoBos. There is a way to install Grub on GPT disks without it, but it takes extra work and isn't worth it. You have to lock certain files in place under /boot/grub so that block-lists can be embedded in sector 0. All of the disk label utilities I've seen recently will, by default, leave a sizable empty space between the primary GPT table and the start of the first partition (which typically starts at a 1MB offset from the start of the disk). I've never understood why Grub won't use that space they way it will use the empty space between an MBR and the first partition. >> It must be the first partition, and it doesn't have a real >> filesystem (grub uses some sort of private filesystem): > > I'm not sure it uses any filesystem. I understood it uses a raw sector jump > from the MBR to the GPT partition type 0xEE. I've read a couple vague but differing descriptions of it. One description specifically referred to "files" (plural) and some sort of grub-private-internal filesystem. However, it could be that it's nothing but a single "file" starting at block 0 in that partition. Whatever it is, it seems to be "opaque" in that Grub puts stuff in that partition, Grub later uses that stuff, and nobody else needs to know or care what it is or how it's organized. I haven't looked through the Grub source code to try to see inside the black box... -- Grant
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help
On Wednesday, 18 October 2023 18:45:27 BST Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 10:23:23 +0100, Michael wrote: > > > Oh, and if you use GPT, you no longer need the MBR compatibility > > > partition, or whatever its called. I no longer need it so I can't > > > remember the exact name. > > > > Man pages of partitioning tools refer to it as "Protective MBR", > > although I've seen it mentioned in the interwebs as "protective GPT", > > which I think is more accurate. It uses the first sector (LBA 0) to > > store an MBR table showing the whole disk, or 2TB if smaller, as an MBR > > partition. This is the first partition on the disk, typically 1 MiB in > > size. It is meant to stop 20 year old partitioning tools from messing > > up a GPT partitioning scheme because they can't see it. Arguably > > nobody uses Windows 98 these days, so it should be safe to not have a > > protective MBR on your GPT disks. > > You need it if your hardware doesn't support EFI booting. Yes, quite right, a 4TB disk on a BIOS MoBo would need a GPT partitioning scheme to access all 4TB, but with an old MoBo you'd use a BIOS Boot Partition and GRUB as mentioned by Grant. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help
On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 12:49:34 -0500, Dale wrote: > I usually use cgdisk, or cfdisk, but they all do the same thing. Just a > different interface. As long as all this is documented, I'll just > follow it and it should work. After all, efi has been around for a long > while now. I'm sure millions of people have it installed, likely > billions. > > I do wonder, can one still put things like memtest, Knoppix and such in > that thing? I'm sure it can be done but never seen it mentioned. I > started to put it on the old 770T but didn't now that I have that Ventoy > USB thing. Do you mean booting from the ISO images? That's a GRUB thing, it doesn't matter how it is loaded, EFI or MBR. However, being able to do away with GRUB is, to me, a bigger benefit than not being able to boot ISOs is a drawback. Use either systemd-boot (it doesn't need systemd) or rEFInd. -- Neil Bothwick "Of course, I could switch back to Windows. At least there, if I have a problem, I don't suffer under the illusion that I could ever fix it." - Unknown (paraphrased) pgpmvLUN21k6t.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help
On Wednesday, 18 October 2023 14:57:51 BST Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2023-10-18, Michael wrote: > >> Oh, and if you use GPT, you no longer need the MBR compatibility > >> partition, or whatever its called. I no longer need it so I can't > >> remember the exact name. > > > > Man pages of partitioning tools refer to it as "Protective MBR", although > > I've seen it mentioned in the interwebs as "protective GPT", which I > > think is more accurate. It uses the first sector (LBA 0) to store an MBR > > table showing the whole disk, or 2TB if smaller, as an MBR partition. > > This is the first partition on the disk, typically 1 MiB in size. It is > > meant to stop 20 year old partitioning tools from messing up a GPT > > partitioning scheme because they can't see it. Arguably nobody uses > > Windows 98 these days, so it should be safe to not have a protective MBR > > on your GPT disks. > > The protective MBR and the BIOS boot partition are two different, > unrelated things. The BIOS boot partition is a real partition (usually > 1-2MB in size) that's present in the GPT parition table. It's used by > Grub as a place to store its files. Yes, this is needed on GPT disks when installed on BIOS MoBos. > It must be the first partition, > and it doesn't have a real filesystem (grub uses some sort of private > filesystem): I'm not sure it uses any filesystem. I understood it uses a raw sector jump from the MBR to the GPT partition type 0xEE. > $ sudo fdisk -l /dev/nvme0n1 > Disk /dev/nvme0n1: 465.76 GiB, 500107862016 bytes, 976773168 sectors > Disk model: Samsung SSD 980 PRO 500GB > Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes > Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes > I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes > Disklabel type: gpt > Disk identifier: E81DD16A-A5AE-3C4A-AD3C-26DF2985827A > > Device Start End Sectors Size Type > /dev/nvme0n1p1 2048 6143 4096 2M BIOS boot > /dev/nvme0n1p2 6144 134219775 13421363264G Linux filesystem > /dev/nvme0n1p3 134219776 976773134 842553359 401.8G Linux filesystem This links explains the combos of BIOS vs. EFI MoBos and MBR vs. GPT partition table schemes: https://askubuntu.com/questions/500359/efi-boot-partition-and-biosgrub-partition signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help
Rich Freeman wrote: > On Tue, Oct 17, 2023 at 11:15 PM Grant Edwards > wrote: >> For example, if one >> of the links is down, Ubuntu is really fond of waiting a couple >> mintues for it to come up before it finishes booting. [If it doesn't >> wait for all the network interfaces, how is it going to do all that >> cloudy crap nobody really wants?] > I think the intent is to prevent dependency issues, though IMO that > would be better avoided by just setting dependencies on the systemd > units. However, many distros try to abstract systemd behind a wall of > distro configuration in part because they wanted to the original > transition to systemd to be seamless. > > I have a bunch of ubuntu hosts that have dual NICs and they just love > to take forever to boot. This is despite having only one entry in > /etc/netplan and having it have "optional: true" set. networkctl > shows one interface as "configuring" even after the system is up for > days. > > Hmm, might even be a systemd-networkd bug. I see ubuntu created > /run/systemd/network/10-netplan-alleths.network and it contains > "RequiredForOnline=no". > > Oh well, I rarely reboot so it just hasn't been on the top of my list > of things to fix. > > Honestly, I'd prefer if it just let me configure networkd directly. > I'm sure there is some way to do that, but I feel like if I do then > I'll have to read the release notes every time there is a new release > to make sure it isn't going to break it. If you're going to run a > distro like Ubuntu I've found it is generally best to just figure out > the "Ubuntu Way" and do it their way. If that isn't adequate, the > easier solution is to just use a more appropriate distro. > Funny you say that last part. That's just what I did. I was fine with Ubuntu until the network stopped working for no reason. I certainly changed nothing. When I couldn't figure it out, it made me think about using Gentoo instead. It went from adequate to needing something else. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help
Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2023-10-18, Michael wrote: > >>> Oh, and if you use GPT, you no longer need the MBR compatibility >>> partition, or whatever its called. I no longer need it so I can't >>> remember the exact name. >> Man pages of partitioning tools refer to it as "Protective MBR", although >> I've >> seen it mentioned in the interwebs as "protective GPT", which I think is >> more >> accurate. It uses the first sector (LBA 0) to store an MBR table showing >> the >> whole disk, or 2TB if smaller, as an MBR partition. This is the first >> partition on the disk, typically 1 MiB in size. It is meant to stop 20 year >> old partitioning tools from messing up a GPT partitioning scheme because >> they >> can't see it. Arguably nobody uses Windows 98 these days, so it should be >> safe to not have a protective MBR on your GPT disks. > The protective MBR and the BIOS boot partition are two different, > unrelated things. The BIOS boot partition is a real partition (usually > 1-2MB in size) that's present in the GPT parition table. It's used by > Grub as a place to store its files. It must be the first partition, > and it doesn't have a real filesystem (grub uses some sort of private > filesystem): > > $ sudo fdisk -l /dev/nvme0n1 > Disk /dev/nvme0n1: 465.76 GiB, 500107862016 bytes, 976773168 sectors > Disk model: Samsung SSD 980 PRO 500GB > Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes > Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes > I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes > Disklabel type: gpt > Disk identifier: E81DD16A-A5AE-3C4A-AD3C-26DF2985827A > > Device Start End Sectors Size Type > /dev/nvme0n1p1 2048 6143 4096 2M BIOS boot > /dev/nvme0n1p2 6144 134219775 13421363264G Linux filesystem > /dev/nvme0n1p3 134219776 976773134 842553359 401.8G Linux filesystem > > > > > I usually use cgdisk, or cfdisk, but they all do the same thing. Just a different interface. As long as all this is documented, I'll just follow it and it should work. After all, efi has been around for a long while now. I'm sure millions of people have it installed, likely billions. I do wonder, can one still put things like memtest, Knoppix and such in that thing? I'm sure it can be done but never seen it mentioned. I started to put it on the old 770T but didn't now that I have that Ventoy USB thing. It's going to be a while before I have to do this. I still haven't found a mobo. Not one I really like anyway. Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help
On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 10:23:23 +0100, Michael wrote: > > Oh, and if you use GPT, you no longer need the MBR compatibility > > partition, or whatever its called. I no longer need it so I can't > > remember the exact name. > > Man pages of partitioning tools refer to it as "Protective MBR", > although I've seen it mentioned in the interwebs as "protective GPT", > which I think is more accurate. It uses the first sector (LBA 0) to > store an MBR table showing the whole disk, or 2TB if smaller, as an MBR > partition. This is the first partition on the disk, typically 1 MiB in > size. It is meant to stop 20 year old partitioning tools from messing > up a GPT partitioning scheme because they can't see it. Arguably > nobody uses Windows 98 these days, so it should be safe to not have a > protective MBR on your GPT disks. You need it if your hardware doesn't support EFI booting. -- Neil Bothwick The human mind ordinarily operates at only ten per cent of its capacity ... the rest is overhead for the operating system. pgpuROacoEHmw.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help
On 2023-10-18, Rich Freeman wrote: > Oh well, I rarely reboot so it just hasn't been on the top of my > list of things to fix. I don't really care much on the Ubuntu servers I maintain because they are rarely rebooted, and their network interfaces are always up. A couple weeks ago I was testing/troubleshooting some PCI-express board prototypes which meant rebooting dozens of times a day. I threw Ubuntu server on a spare machine for that, but the 2-minute delay drove me nuts. After futzing around for a while, I did get Ubuntu to boot in a timely fashion [but it meant I had to manually configure one of the network interfaces with 'ip' when I wanted to use it]. However, I never could get the serial console to work acceptably on Ubuntu. It worked fine during the kernel boot, but once systemd started up, the serial console got shut down. I wasted hours trying to figure out how to fix that before I gave up on Ubuntu. I finally ended up installing Gentoo/openrc, and then it only took a few minutes to figure out how to keep the serial console working. -- Grant
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help
On Tue, Oct 17, 2023 at 11:15 PM Grant Edwards wrote: > > For example, if one > of the links is down, Ubuntu is really fond of waiting a couple > mintues for it to come up before it finishes booting. [If it doesn't > wait for all the network interfaces, how is it going to do all that > cloudy crap nobody really wants?] I think the intent is to prevent dependency issues, though IMO that would be better avoided by just setting dependencies on the systemd units. However, many distros try to abstract systemd behind a wall of distro configuration in part because they wanted to the original transition to systemd to be seamless. I have a bunch of ubuntu hosts that have dual NICs and they just love to take forever to boot. This is despite having only one entry in /etc/netplan and having it have "optional: true" set. networkctl shows one interface as "configuring" even after the system is up for days. Hmm, might even be a systemd-networkd bug. I see ubuntu created /run/systemd/network/10-netplan-alleths.network and it contains "RequiredForOnline=no". Oh well, I rarely reboot so it just hasn't been on the top of my list of things to fix. Honestly, I'd prefer if it just let me configure networkd directly. I'm sure there is some way to do that, but I feel like if I do then I'll have to read the release notes every time there is a new release to make sure it isn't going to break it. If you're going to run a distro like Ubuntu I've found it is generally best to just figure out the "Ubuntu Way" and do it their way. If that isn't adequate, the easier solution is to just use a more appropriate distro. -- Rich
[gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help
On 2023-10-18, Michael wrote: >> Oh, and if you use GPT, you no longer need the MBR compatibility >> partition, or whatever its called. I no longer need it so I can't >> remember the exact name. > > Man pages of partitioning tools refer to it as "Protective MBR", although > I've > seen it mentioned in the interwebs as "protective GPT", which I think is more > accurate. It uses the first sector (LBA 0) to store an MBR table showing the > whole disk, or 2TB if smaller, as an MBR partition. This is the first > partition on the disk, typically 1 MiB in size. It is meant to stop 20 year > old partitioning tools from messing up a GPT partitioning scheme because they > can't see it. Arguably nobody uses Windows 98 these days, so it should be > safe to not have a protective MBR on your GPT disks. The protective MBR and the BIOS boot partition are two different, unrelated things. The BIOS boot partition is a real partition (usually 1-2MB in size) that's present in the GPT parition table. It's used by Grub as a place to store its files. It must be the first partition, and it doesn't have a real filesystem (grub uses some sort of private filesystem): $ sudo fdisk -l /dev/nvme0n1 Disk /dev/nvme0n1: 465.76 GiB, 500107862016 bytes, 976773168 sectors Disk model: Samsung SSD 980 PRO 500GB Units: sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes Disklabel type: gpt Disk identifier: E81DD16A-A5AE-3C4A-AD3C-26DF2985827A Device Start End Sectors Size Type /dev/nvme0n1p1 2048 6143 4096 2M BIOS boot /dev/nvme0n1p2 6144 134219775 13421363264G Linux filesystem /dev/nvme0n1p3 134219776 976773134 842553359 401.8G Linux filesystem
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help
On Wednesday, 18 October 2023 08:36:06 BST Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Tue, 17 Oct 2023 21:50:35 -0500, Dale wrote: > > > EFI is much simpler to work with. for one thing, you don't need the > > > monster that GRUB has become. > > > > While I kinda dread it, it does seem that quite a while ago, it has > > become much easier. I noticed as I went through the install of Gentoo, > > there didn't seem to be a lot of stuff to do with efi. One might could > > think it is quicker and simpler as you say. I recall when it first came > > out. It was complicated but I think most of that was because it was new > > and the documentation was not quite there yet. After all this time tho, > > that shouldn't be a problem. > > > > It's a bridge I'll have to cross tho. It looks easy enough. Biggest > > thing is partitioning the drive differently. Gotta remember that. O_O It is a relatively simple bridge to cross. Use gdisk to partition the drive, which if you've used fdisk before you'll find it quite similar. If you prefer it fdisk will work too, but make sure first you create a GUID Partition Table (GPT) and not an MBR table. You can also use sgdisk to create a 1GB EFI System Partition (type 0xEF00) in a single command, as your first partition in an empty disk; e.g.: sgdisk -n 1:2048:2068470 -t 1:ef00 -c 1:"ESP-Boot" /dev/sda Then format it: mkfs.fat -v -F 32 -n ESP /dev/sda1 mount it as mnt/gentoo/boot and 'mkdir /mnt/gentoo/boot/EFI', to store at a later stage your kernel/initrd in it, before you continue with the rest of your installation. That's all there is to it. > If you usually use a separate partition for /boot, all you need to do > differently is set its partition type to EF00 and format it with FAT > instead of ext2. > > Oh, and if you use GPT, you no longer need the MBR compatibility > partition, or whatever its called. I no longer need it so I can't > remember the exact name. Man pages of partitioning tools refer to it as "Protective MBR", although I've seen it mentioned in the interwebs as "protective GPT", which I think is more accurate. It uses the first sector (LBA 0) to store an MBR table showing the whole disk, or 2TB if smaller, as an MBR partition. This is the first partition on the disk, typically 1 MiB in size. It is meant to stop 20 year old partitioning tools from messing up a GPT partitioning scheme because they can't see it. Arguably nobody uses Windows 98 these days, so it should be safe to not have a protective MBR on your GPT disks. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help
On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 03:15:56 - (UTC), Grant Edwards wrote: > > I have 4 Ubuntu-based machines here and over the last 6 years I've > > never seen a 1 minute delay to login, much less 5 minutes. > > I see it all the time. Two minutes is the most common delay that I run > into, but I've seen longer. The two-minute delay I frequently run into > has usually got something to do with networking. For example, if one > of the links is down, Ubuntu is really fond of waiting a couple > mintues for it to come up before it finishes booting. [If it doesn't > wait for all the network interfaces, how is it going to do all that > cloudy crap nobody really wants?] There are different ways of waiting for the network to come up in systemd, depending on your needs. Is lo enough, do you need an external network connection available, or do you need one up and working, do you have more than one network connection. It seems like Ubuntu is taking the safest-for-all approach of waiting for all network interfaces to be fully configured. > The really fun part is that since the methods used for configuring the > network on Ubuntu change with the seasons, 95% of the suggested fixes > you find are irrelevent even if they were on-target at one point. But change is good and new is better, no matter what it breaks, isn't it? ;-) -- Neil Bothwick If you can't be kind, be vague. pgpZpAWq4f7ap.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help
On Tue, 17 Oct 2023 21:50:35 -0500, Dale wrote: > > EFI is much simpler to work with. for one thing, you don't need the > > monster that GRUB has become. > While I kinda dread it, it does seem that quite a while ago, it has > become much easier. I noticed as I went through the install of Gentoo, > there didn't seem to be a lot of stuff to do with efi. One might could > think it is quicker and simpler as you say. I recall when it first came > out. It was complicated but I think most of that was because it was new > and the documentation was not quite there yet. After all this time tho, > that shouldn't be a problem. > > It's a bridge I'll have to cross tho. It looks easy enough. Biggest > thing is partitioning the drive differently. Gotta remember that. O_O If you usually use a separate partition for /boot, all you need to do differently is set its partition type to EF00 and format it with FAT instead of ext2. Oh, and if you use GPT, you no longer need the MBR compatibility partition, or whatever its called. I no longer need it so I can't remember the exact name. -- Neil Bothwick leep is an excellent way of listening to an opera. - James Stephens (1882-1950) pgpV5x9WzHIYI.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
[gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help
On 2023-10-17, Mark Knecht wrote: > I have 4 Ubuntu-based machines here and over the last 6 years I've > never seen a 1 minute delay to login, much less 5 minutes. I see it all the time. Two minutes is the most common delay that I run into, but I've seen longer. The two-minute delay I frequently run into has usually got something to do with networking. For example, if one of the links is down, Ubuntu is really fond of waiting a couple mintues for it to come up before it finishes booting. [If it doesn't wait for all the network interfaces, how is it going to do all that cloudy crap nobody really wants?] People have been complaining about that one for years and years and years. There have been countless web pages written about it with almost as many different answers/suggestions. Here's a recent one: https://devicetests.com/fix-waiting-for-network-configuration-error-ubuntu-startup The really fun part is that since the methods used for configuring the network on Ubuntu change with the seasons, 95% of the suggested fixes you find are irrelevent even if they were on-target at one point. I've run into various other (less common) causes of Ubuntu boot delays, but it's usually waiting for "network configuration". And then there are the delays during shutdown... And how about the stupid #@$% "modem manager" that mucks with serial ports looking for dial-up modems. Yea, that still needs to be installed and enabled by default on every Ubuntu install on the planet... -- Grant
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help
Neil Bothwick wrote: > On Tue, 17 Oct 2023 13:54:47 -0500, Dale wrote: > >> I just realized, my new rig will almost certainly be efi. I kinda dread >> that. At least it is well documented tho. Should be easy enough. I >> hope. o_O > EFI is much simpler to work with. for one thing, you don't need the > monster that GRUB has become. > > While I kinda dread it, it does seem that quite a while ago, it has become much easier. I noticed as I went through the install of Gentoo, there didn't seem to be a lot of stuff to do with efi. One might could think it is quicker and simpler as you say. I recall when it first came out. It was complicated but I think most of that was because it was new and the documentation was not quite there yet. After all this time tho, that shouldn't be a problem. It's a bridge I'll have to cross tho. It looks easy enough. Biggest thing is partitioning the drive differently. Gotta remember that. O_O Dale :-) :-)
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help
On Tue, 17 Oct 2023 13:54:47 -0500, Dale wrote: > I just realized, my new rig will almost certainly be efi. I kinda dread > that. At least it is well documented tho. Should be easy enough. I > hope. o_O EFI is much simpler to work with. for one thing, you don't need the monster that GRUB has become. -- Neil Bothwick "Do you reply to our surveys.?" [X]Never [ ]Always [ ]Sometimes pgp_lfpogTA2O.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help
Grant Edwards wrote: > On 2023-10-17, Dale wrote: > >> I to find Gentoo to be much better documented. There were places where >> the old BIOS and efi info got a little confusing but eventually I >> figured it out. I been trying to think of a way to color code the docs >> but I can't figure out a sensible way. You got BIOS and efi, openrc and >> systemd and several other smaller things that one has to decide on and >> take different steps. One would run out of colors or the colors >> themselves would get confusing. I can't think of a better way. > In theory, a wee bit of CSS and Javascript along with some radio > buttons would allow the reader to make a few choices and then see > an installation manual that only shows the relevent sections. > > I still miss being able to view the installation manual as a single > HTML page. I find the "chopped up" format difficult to use: I can't > easily search for things, and the bit I'm looking for never seems to > be in the section where I think it's going to be. > > -- > Grant The question is, do they have those tools available for those pages? They might, I have no idea. That would be a good idea. That way one could view the whole thing, just certain parts or whatever. If they have a way to select several options, that would be good. Have one spot to select BIOS or efi. Another spot to select openrc and systemd. Kinda like they do on sites where they help you build a puter. Select CPU is usually first, then mobo, then memory and so on. That number of options would help the docs a lot. I miss that too. To be honest, I thought about copying each page and pasting them into a LOo document. Then I can print it or just view it as one page. I've done things like that for other sites as well. It also allows me to edit out things I'll never need. Make it printer friendly even if the page isn't. I just realized, my new rig will almost certainly be efi. I kinda dread that. At least it is well documented tho. Should be easy enough. I hope. o_O Dale :-) :-)
[gentoo-user] Re: OFF TOPIC Need Ubuntu network help
On 2023-10-17, Dale wrote: > I to find Gentoo to be much better documented. There were places where > the old BIOS and efi info got a little confusing but eventually I > figured it out. I been trying to think of a way to color code the docs > but I can't figure out a sensible way. You got BIOS and efi, openrc and > systemd and several other smaller things that one has to decide on and > take different steps. One would run out of colors or the colors > themselves would get confusing. I can't think of a better way. In theory, a wee bit of CSS and Javascript along with some radio buttons would allow the reader to make a few choices and then see an installation manual that only shows the relevent sections. I still miss being able to view the installation manual as a single HTML page. I find the "chopped up" format difficult to use: I can't easily search for things, and the bit I'm looking for never seems to be in the section where I think it's going to be. -- Grant
