Re: [Geowanking] 1:1 scale mapping
But I think that AR is not strictly producing maps, at least in a classical sense. It only appends a set of 1:1 features to a physical reality, and the results lose all the practicity once the reality goes away. For me, the maps of Borges and Carroll are impractical in the sense that the base cartography is part of the result, whereas in AR there is no base cartography, and that's what makes the idea so powerful. -- Pablo Rodríguez Madroño 2010/2/9 Eric Wolf ebw...@gmail.com Don't forget that we regularly see maps that are even larger scale than 1:1! Xrays, circuit diagrams, CPU lithographs, organic chemical symbols. And CAD normally deals with what is essentially a 1:1 map. -Eric -=--=---===---=--=-=--=---==---=--=-=- Eric B. WolfNew! 720-334-7734 USGS Geographer Center of Excellence in GIScience PhD Student CU-Boulder - Geography GPG Public Key: http://www.h4h.net/ebwolf.public.key.txt On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:49 PM, Edward Vielmetti edward.vielme...@gmail.com wrote: Sounds like maps of Michigan. some examples http://www.michiganmittens.com/ http://cartophilia.com/blog/2008/11/michigan-mittens.html http://www.michiblogger.net/372.php and this from London http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/02/glove-map/ On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 12:20 AM, R E Sieber resie...@gmail.com wrote: They’re also referred to as anthropomorphic maps. Got this one from one of my listservs AM are exactly scale 1:1. Anthropomorphic (body-part) maps were generated by configuring the virtual body of a god or goddess over the area to be mapped. Areas under each part of that body received the name of that part. These maps equate geography with (human) anatomy to produce place names that indicate where they are located relative to other places on the same map. Examples of these maps include Old Man Napi (creator of the Blackfoot indians) and his Old Woman wife in Alberta, Canada; Hermes centered at Mt. Hermon (now on the Israeli-Syrian cease-fire line); and Aphrodite in north Africa. Renee Alan Keown wrote: Mike, Lewis Carrol was, in my opinion, fascinated by the apparent absurdities that Mathematical concepts can generate when partnered with unbridled extrapolation (or interpolation). As a reality check I would say that § “we” are not really creating maps; we make “models” of the real world that can be presented as maps. § it will be a long time before we have anything like general coverage at a “scale” of even 1:1000, let alone 1:1 § “we” will not map everything – leaves on trees, blades of grass, door handles (the list goes on) Which leads me to the email signature I used to use before adopting the Sylvie and Bruno quote several years ago: “If I have a 1:1 model of the universe, does that make me God?” Cheers AlanK /“…And then came the grandest idea of all! / /We actually made a map of the country, on the scale of a mile to the mile!/ /Have you used it much? I enquired. // //It has never been spread out, yet, said Mein Herr: / /the farmers objected:/ /they said it would cover the whole country, and shut out the sunlight!/ /So we now use the country itself, as its own map, and I assure you it does nearly as well…”/ — Lewis Carroll. /The complete Sylvie and Bruno./ 1893. *From:* geowanking-boun...@geowanking.org [mailto:geowanking-boun...@geowanking.org] *On Behalf Of *Mike Liebhold *Sent:* Tuesday, 9 February 2010 10:22 AM *To:* David Asbury *Cc:* geowanking@geowanking.org *Subject:* Re: [Geowanking] 1:1 scale mapping wow thanks to both! this is a trove! http://3stages.org/c/gq.cgi?first=QAMAP jorge luis borges, lewis carrol, gregory bateson, david foster wallace, ... the crazy thing is we're building this 1:1 AR map. modern augmented aeality is becoming precisely what lewis carrol said here: the country itself, as its own map On 2/8/10 2:44 PM, David Asbury wrote: And, of course, the classic: And then came the grandest idea of all! We actually made a map of the country, on the scale of a mile to the mile! Have you used it much? I enquired. It has never been spread out, yet, said Mein Herr: the farmers objected: they said it would cover the whole country, and shut out the sunlight! So we now use the country itself, as its own map, and I assure you it does nearly as well. -- Lewis Carroll, Sylvie and Bruno Concluded (1893). Here are a number of other thoughts... http://3stages.org/c/gq.cgi?first=QAMAP David Brandon Martin-Anderson wrote: Here's a story about 1:1 mapping: On Exactitude in Science . . . In that Empire, the Art of Cartography attained such Perfection that the map of a single Province occupied the entirety of a City, and the map of the Empire
Re: [Geowanking] 1:1 scale mapping
Hi, Thanks Edward for the links. All the best with the AR work everyone doing that. I go along with Alan, Eric and Pablo. 1:1 Scale is fine, but what detail is wanted, what resolution, what objects are simplified in this map? We can’t have all views from everywhere unless they are in some way generalised! As a geographer I am focusing at a human scale, and at the moment I am doing social simulation work with a model that operates on the individual person level, but which contains details of each individuals family relationships, location, destination, heading and a history of interactions. I think a measure of scale ratio is most useful when considering cartographic generalisation or magnification or shrinkage of images. Scale itself is important when considering high resolution spatial-temporal-attribute data models, but the closer these become to 1:1 for any slice through that tri-space, the less one can assert the scale ratio and attach meaning to it. I like the different resolution models suggested in Permutation City by Greg Egan, a stimulating read if you have the time… Of course atoms aren’t really the smallest stuff! Anyway… back to work… Best wishes, Andy http://www.geog.leeds.ac.uk/people/a.turner/ From: geowanking-boun...@geowanking.org [mailto:geowanking-boun...@geowanking.org] On Behalf Of Pablo Rodríguez Madroño Sent: 09 February 2010 11:10 To: geowanking Subject: Re: [Geowanking] 1:1 scale mapping But I think that AR is not strictly producing maps, at least in a classical sense. It only appends a set of 1:1 features to a physical reality, and the results lose all the practicity once the reality goes away. For me, the maps of Borges and Carroll are impractical in the sense that the base cartography is part of the result, whereas in AR there is no base cartography, and that's what makes the idea so powerful. -- Pablo Rodríguez Madroño 2010/2/9 Eric Wolf ebw...@gmail.commailto:ebw...@gmail.com Don't forget that we regularly see maps that are even larger scale than 1:1! Xrays, circuit diagrams, CPU lithographs, organic chemical symbols. And CAD normally deals with what is essentially a 1:1 map. -Eric -=--=---===---=--=-=--=---==---=--=-=- Eric B. WolfNew! 720-334-7734 USGS Geographer Center of Excellence in GIScience PhD Student CU-Boulder - Geography GPG Public Key: http://www.h4h.net/ebwolf.public.key.txt On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:49 PM, Edward Vielmetti edward.vielme...@gmail.commailto:edward.vielme...@gmail.com wrote: Sounds like maps of Michigan. some examples http://www.michiganmittens.com/ http://cartophilia.com/blog/2008/11/michigan-mittens.html http://www.michiblogger.net/372.php and this from London http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/02/glove-map/ On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 12:20 AM, R E Sieber resie...@gmail.commailto:resie...@gmail.com wrote: They’re also referred to as anthropomorphic maps. Got this one from one of my listservs AM are exactly scale 1:1. Anthropomorphic (body-part) maps were generated by configuring the virtual body of a god or goddess over the area to be mapped. Areas under each part of that body received the name of that part. These maps equate geography with (human) anatomy to produce place names that indicate where they are located relative to other places on the same map. Examples of these maps include Old Man Napi (creator of the Blackfoot indians) and his Old Woman wife in Alberta, Canada; Hermes centered at Mt. Hermon (now on the Israeli-Syrian cease-fire line); and Aphrodite in north Africa. Renee Alan Keown wrote: Mike, Lewis Carrol was, in my opinion, fascinated by the apparent absurdities that Mathematical concepts can generate when partnered with unbridled extrapolation (or interpolation). As a reality check I would say that § “we” are not really creating maps; we make “models” of the real world that can be presented as maps. § it will be a long time before we have anything like general coverage at a “scale” of even 1:1000, let alone 1:1 § “we” will not map everything – leaves on trees, blades of grass, door handles (the list goes on) Which leads me to the email signature I used to use before adopting the Sylvie and Bruno quote several years ago: “If I have a 1:1 model of the universe, does that make me God?” Cheers AlanK /“…And then came the grandest idea of all! / /We actually made a map of the country, on the scale of a mile to the mile!/ /Have you used it much? I enquired. // //It has never been spread out, yet, said Mein Herr: / /the farmers objected:/ /they said it would cover the whole country, and shut out the sunlight!/ /So we now use the country itself, as its own map, and I assure you it does nearly as well…”/ — Lewis Carroll. /The complete Sylvie and Bruno./ 1893. *From:* geowanking-boun...@geowanking.orgmailto:geowanking-boun
Re: [Geowanking] 1:1 scale mapping
Maybe the distinction is that what is being mapped here is not so much the physical - which is present in the 'background' - but rather the additional properties of the physical objects - the rating of the restaurant, the number of public complaints about a police station, etc. I'm not sure early writers conceived of our ability to overlay information on what is right in front of us - they missed the augmentation aspect and focused on the reality part. On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Christian Willmes c.will...@uni-koeln.dewrote: In my opinion there is a huge difference between just geometrical accurancy (or scale) of to be mapped/modeled objects and the description or the mapping of those objects with its semantical meaning(s) and relations between them. For just static physical objects in real world you can do a 1:1 scale, or a submilimeter precise model, with todays technology (photogrammetrical, laser scanning etc.) of the pure geometry in 3D/4D space/time. But if you would like to process some information about any objects and their relation and meaning in real world, you need to filter this information to a proper amount of information you can consider for processing to find your answer. This means for example, If you would like to process a shortest route between two places, you just need information about the edges (for you possible crossable pathes) between these nodes, and some (more) attributes for those edges which might have an influence on the best route. A too precices map/model of the world with all thinkable possible information would be counterproductive (because you would need to filter/process more), for this purpose... There are technologies for considering/processing same data under different scales, as for example Level of Detail... but essentially you need to stay focused on what you want/need to map/model/analyse/visualize to find your solutions/answers. As I cited Alfred Korzybsky some time ago on this list, it fits here very well again: The map is not the territory. ;-) best regards, Christian Andy Turner schrieb: Hi, Thanks Edward for the links. All the best with the AR work everyone doing that. I go along with Alan, Eric and Pablo. 1:1 Scale is fine, but what detail is wanted, what resolution, what objects are simplified in this map? We can’t have all views from everywhere unless they are in some way generalised! As a geographer I am focusing at a human scale, and at the moment I am doing social simulation work with a model that operates on the individual person level, but which contains details of each individuals family relationships, location, destination, heading and a history of interactions. I think a measure of scale ratio is most useful when considering cartographic generalisation or magnification or shrinkage of images. Scale itself is important when considering high resolution spatial-temporal-attribute data models, but the closer these become to 1:1 for any slice through that tri-space, the less one can assert the scale ratio and attach meaning to it. I like the different resolution models suggested in Permutation City by Greg Egan, a stimulating read if you have the time… Of course atoms aren’t really the smallest stuff! Anyway… back to work… Best wishes, Andy http://www.geog.leeds.ac.uk/people/a.turner/ From: geowanking-boun...@geowanking.org [mailto: geowanking-boun...@geowanking.org] On Behalf Of Pablo Rodríguez Madroño Sent: 09 February 2010 11:10 To: geowanking Subject: Re: [Geowanking] 1:1 scale mapping But I think that AR is not strictly producing maps, at least in a classical sense. It only appends a set of 1:1 features to a physical reality, and the results lose all the practicity once the reality goes away. For me, the maps of Borges and Carroll are impractical in the sense that the base cartography is part of the result, whereas in AR there is no base cartography, and that's what makes the idea so powerful. -- Pablo Rodríguez Madroño 2010/2/9 Eric Wolf ebw...@gmail.commailto:ebw...@gmail.com Don't forget that we regularly see maps that are even larger scale than 1:1! Xrays, circuit diagrams, CPU lithographs, organic chemical symbols. And CAD normally deals with what is essentially a 1:1 map. -Eric -=--=---===---=--=-=--=---==---=--=-=- Eric B. WolfNew! 720-334-7734 USGS Geographer Center of Excellence in GIScience PhD Student CU-Boulder - Geography GPG Public Key: http://www.h4h.net/ebwolf.public.key.txt On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:49 PM, Edward Vielmetti edward.vielme...@gmail.commailto:edward.vielme...@gmail.com wrote: Sounds like maps of Michigan. some examples http://www.michiganmittens.com/ http://cartophilia.com/blog/2008/11/michigan-mittens.html http://www.michiblogger.net/372.php and this from London http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/02/glove-map/ On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 12:20 AM, R E Sieber resie
Re: [Geowanking] 1:1 scale mapping
No discussion of 1:1 maps would be complete without mention of Umberto Eco's essay On the Impossibility of Drawing a Map of the Empire on a Scale of 1 to 1 It is a must read (as is the entire book, really): http://books.google.com/books?id=_ntDTaMUys8Cpg=PA95lpg=PA95dq=On+th e+Impossibility+of+Drawing+a+Map+of+the+Empire+on+a+Scale+of+1+to+1.so urce=blots=E3ljUpI76Ksig=VIxB7BKrHectseJtMpcD8fydpUghl=enei=iZ9xS7_- J4bYsgOxmbiTCAsa=Xoi=book_resultct=resultresnum=3ved=0CBIQ6AEwAg#v= onepageq=%22On%20the%20Impossibility%20of%20Drawing%20a%20Map%20of%20th e%20Empire%20on%20a%20Scale%20of%201%20to%201.%22f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=_ntDTaMUys8Cpg=PA95lpg=PA95dq=%22On +the+Impossibility+of+Drawing+a+Map+of+the+Empire+on+a+Scale+of+1+to+1.% 22source=blots=E3ljUpI76Ksig=VIxB7BKrHectseJtMpcD8fydpUghl=enei=iZ9 xS7_-J4bYsgOxmbiTCAsa=Xoi=book_resultct=resultresnum=3ved=0CBIQ6AEw Ag#v=onepageq=%22On%20the%20Impossibility%20of%20Drawing%20a%20Map%20of %20the%20Empire%20on%20a%20Scale%20of%201%20to%201.%22f=false Perry From: geowanking-boun...@geowanking.org [mailto:geowanking-boun...@geowanking.org] On Behalf Of Mike Liebhold Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 3:22 PM To: David Asbury Cc: geowanking@geowanking.org Subject: Re: [Geowanking] 1:1 scale mapping wow thanks to both! this is a trove! http://3stages.org/c/gq.cgi?first=QAMAP jorge luis borges, lewis carrol, gregory bateson, david foster wallace, ... the crazy thing is we're building this 1:1 AR map. modern augmented aeality is becoming precisely what lewis carrol said here: the country itself, as its own map On 2/8/10 2:44 PM, David Asbury wrote: And, of course, the classic: And then came the grandest idea of all! We actually made a map of the country, on the scale of a mile to the mile! Have you used it much? I enquired. It has never been spread out, yet, said Mein Herr: the farmers objected: they said it would cover the whole country, and shut out the sunlight! So we now use the country itself, as its own map, and I assure you it does nearly as well. -- Lewis Carroll, Sylvie and Bruno Concluded (1893). Here are a number of other thoughts... http://3stages.org/c/gq.cgi?first=QAMAP David Brandon Martin-Anderson wrote: Here's a story about 1:1 mapping: On Exactitude in Science . . . In that Empire, the Art of Cartography attained such Perfection that the map of a single Province occupied the entirety of a City, and the map of the Empire, the entirety of a Province. In time, those Unconscionable Maps no longer satisfied, and the Cartographers Guilds struck a Map of the Empire whose size was that of the Empire, and which coincided point for point with it. The following Generations, who were not so fond of the Study of Cartography as their Forebears had been, saw that that vast Map was Useless, and not without some Pitilessness was it, that they delivered it up to the Inclemencies of Sun and Winters. In the Deserts of the West, still today, there are Tattered Ruins of that Map, inhabited by Animals and Beggars; in all the Land there is no other Relic of the Disciplines of Geography. Suarez Miranda,Viajes de varones prudentes, Libro IV,Cap. XLV, Lerida, 1658 From Jorge Luis Borges, Collected Fictions, Translated by Andrew Hurley Copyright Penguin 1999 . -B On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Mike Liebhold m...@well.com mailto:m...@well.com wrote: the arrival of viewfinder AR (augmented reality) is opening lots of opportunities for near field focal plane maps of very dense local data. e.g. show me labels, links, annotations and attributes for things and places in my field of view is 1:1 scale mapping a reasonable idea? can anyone here share pointers or stories about 1:1 scale mapping and why the idea has generated ridicule in the past? ??? ___ Geowanking mailing list Geowanking@geowanking.org http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org ___ Geowanking mailing list Geowanking@geowanking.org http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org ___ Geowanking mailing list Geowanking@geowanking.org http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org
Re: [Geowanking] 1:1 scale mapping
Sorry. Didn't read on. Eco elaborates after that page. -Eric -=--=---===---=--=-=--=---==---=--=-=- Eric B. WolfNew! 720-334-7734 USGS Geographer Center of Excellence in GIScience PhD Student CU-Boulder - Geography GPG Public Key: http://www.h4h.net/ebwolf.public.key.txt 2010/2/9 Eric Wolf ebw...@gmail.com That's not Eco, it's Eco quoting Borges' On Exactitude in Science -=--=---===---=--=-=--=---==---=--=-=- Eric B. WolfNew! 720-334-7734 USGS Geographer Center of Excellence in GIScience PhD Student CU-Boulder - Geography GPG Public Key: http://www.h4h.net/ebwolf.public.key.txt On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 10:52 AM, Perry Tancredi ptancr...@quova.comwrote: No discussion of 1:1 maps would be complete without mention of Umberto Eco’s essay “On the Impossibility of Drawing a Map of the Empire on a Scale of 1 to 1” It is a must read (as is the entire book, really): http://books.google.com/books?id=_ntDTaMUys8Cpg=PA95lpg=PA95dq=On+the+Impossibility+of+Drawing+a+Map+of+the+Empire+on+a+Scale+of+1+to+1.source=blots=E3ljUpI76Ksig=VIxB7BKrHectseJtMpcD8fydpUghl=enei=iZ9xS7_-J4bYsgOxmbiTCAsa=Xoi=book_resultct=resultresnum=3ved=0CBIQ6AEwAg#v=onepageq=%22On%20the%20Impossibility%20of%20Drawing%20a%20Map%20of%20the%20Empire%20on%20a%20Scale%20of%201%20to%201.%22f=falsehttp://books.google.com/books?id=_ntDTaMUys8Cpg=PA95lpg=PA95dq=%22On+the+Impossibility+of+Drawing+a+Map+of+the+Empire+on+a+Scale+of+1+to+1.%22source=blots=E3ljUpI76Ksig=VIxB7BKrHectseJtMpcD8fydpUghl=enei=iZ9xS7_-J4bYsgOxmbiTCAsa=Xoi=book_resultct=resultresnum=3ved=0CBIQ6AEwAg#v=onepageq=%22On%20the%20Impossibility%20of%20Drawing%20a%20Map%20of%20the%20Empire%20on%20a%20Scale%20of%201%20to%201.%22f=false Perry *From:* geowanking-boun...@geowanking.org [mailto: geowanking-boun...@geowanking.org] *On Behalf Of *Mike Liebhold *Sent:* Monday, February 08, 2010 3:22 PM *To:* David Asbury *Cc:* geowanking@geowanking.org *Subject:* Re: [Geowanking] 1:1 scale mapping wow thanks to both! this is a trove! http://3stages.org/c/gq.cgi?first=QAMAP jorge luis borges, lewis carrol, gregory bateson, david foster wallace, ... the crazy thing is we're building this 1:1 AR map. modern augmented aeality is becoming precisely what lewis carrol said here: the country itself, as its own map On 2/8/10 2:44 PM, David Asbury wrote: And, of course, the classic: And then came the grandest idea of all! We actually made a map of the country, on the scale of a mile to the mile! Have you used it much? I enquired. It has never been spread out, yet, said Mein Herr: the farmers objected: they said it would cover the whole country, and shut out the sunlight! So we now use the country itself, as its own map, and I assure you it does nearly as well. -- Lewis Carroll, Sylvie and Bruno Concluded (1893). Here are a number of other thoughts... http://3stages.org/c/gq.cgi?first=QAMAP David Brandon Martin-Anderson wrote: Here's a story about 1:1 mapping: On Exactitude in Science . . . In that Empire, the Art of Cartography attained such Perfection that the map of a single Province occupied the entirety of a City, and the map of the Empire, the entirety of a Province. In time, those Unconscionable Maps no longer satisfied, and the Cartographers Guilds struck a Map of the Empire whose size was that of the Empire, and which coincided point for point with it. The following Generations, who were not so fond of the Study of Cartography as their Forebears had been, saw that that vast Map was Useless, and not without some Pitilessness was it, that they delivered it up to the Inclemencies of Sun and Winters. In the Deserts of the West, still today, there are Tattered Ruins of that Map, inhabited by Animals and Beggars; in all the Land there is no other Relic of the Disciplines of Geography. Suarez Miranda,Viajes de varones prudentes, Libro IV,Cap. XLV, Lerida, 1658 From Jorge Luis Borges, Collected Fictions, Translated by Andrew Hurley Copyright Penguin 1999 . -B On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Mike Liebhold m...@well.comm...@well.comwrote: the arrival of viewfinder AR (augmented reality) is opening lots of opportunities for near field focal plane maps of very dense local data. e.g. show me labels, links, annotations and attributes for things and places in my field of view is 1:1 scale mapping a reasonable idea? can anyone here share pointers or stories about 1:1 scale mapping and why the idea has generated ridicule in the past? ??? ___ Geowanking mailing list Geowanking@geowanking.org http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org ___ Geowanking mailing list Geowanking@geowanking.org http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org
Re: [Geowanking] 1:1 scale mapping
That's not Eco, it's Eco quoting Borges' On Exactitude in Science -=--=---===---=--=-=--=---==---=--=-=- Eric B. WolfNew! 720-334-7734 USGS Geographer Center of Excellence in GIScience PhD Student CU-Boulder - Geography GPG Public Key: http://www.h4h.net/ebwolf.public.key.txt On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 10:52 AM, Perry Tancredi ptancr...@quova.com wrote: No discussion of 1:1 maps would be complete without mention of Umberto Eco’s essay “On the Impossibility of Drawing a Map of the Empire on a Scale of 1 to 1” It is a must read (as is the entire book, really): http://books.google.com/books?id=_ntDTaMUys8Cpg=PA95lpg=PA95dq=On+the+Impossibility+of+Drawing+a+Map+of+the+Empire+on+a+Scale+of+1+to+1.source=blots=E3ljUpI76Ksig=VIxB7BKrHectseJtMpcD8fydpUghl=enei=iZ9xS7_-J4bYsgOxmbiTCAsa=Xoi=book_resultct=resultresnum=3ved=0CBIQ6AEwAg#v=onepageq=%22On%20the%20Impossibility%20of%20Drawing%20a%20Map%20of%20the%20Empire%20on%20a%20Scale%20of%201%20to%201.%22f=falsehttp://books.google.com/books?id=_ntDTaMUys8Cpg=PA95lpg=PA95dq=%22On+the+Impossibility+of+Drawing+a+Map+of+the+Empire+on+a+Scale+of+1+to+1.%22source=blots=E3ljUpI76Ksig=VIxB7BKrHectseJtMpcD8fydpUghl=enei=iZ9xS7_-J4bYsgOxmbiTCAsa=Xoi=book_resultct=resultresnum=3ved=0CBIQ6AEwAg#v=onepageq=%22On%20the%20Impossibility%20of%20Drawing%20a%20Map%20of%20the%20Empire%20on%20a%20Scale%20of%201%20to%201.%22f=false Perry *From:* geowanking-boun...@geowanking.org [mailto: geowanking-boun...@geowanking.org] *On Behalf Of *Mike Liebhold *Sent:* Monday, February 08, 2010 3:22 PM *To:* David Asbury *Cc:* geowanking@geowanking.org *Subject:* Re: [Geowanking] 1:1 scale mapping wow thanks to both! this is a trove! http://3stages.org/c/gq.cgi?first=QAMAP jorge luis borges, lewis carrol, gregory bateson, david foster wallace, ... the crazy thing is we're building this 1:1 AR map. modern augmented aeality is becoming precisely what lewis carrol said here: the country itself, as its own map On 2/8/10 2:44 PM, David Asbury wrote: And, of course, the classic: And then came the grandest idea of all! We actually made a map of the country, on the scale of a mile to the mile! Have you used it much? I enquired. It has never been spread out, yet, said Mein Herr: the farmers objected: they said it would cover the whole country, and shut out the sunlight! So we now use the country itself, as its own map, and I assure you it does nearly as well. -- Lewis Carroll, Sylvie and Bruno Concluded (1893). Here are a number of other thoughts... http://3stages.org/c/gq.cgi?first=QAMAP David Brandon Martin-Anderson wrote: Here's a story about 1:1 mapping: On Exactitude in Science . . . In that Empire, the Art of Cartography attained such Perfection that the map of a single Province occupied the entirety of a City, and the map of the Empire, the entirety of a Province. In time, those Unconscionable Maps no longer satisfied, and the Cartographers Guilds struck a Map of the Empire whose size was that of the Empire, and which coincided point for point with it. The following Generations, who were not so fond of the Study of Cartography as their Forebears had been, saw that that vast Map was Useless, and not without some Pitilessness was it, that they delivered it up to the Inclemencies of Sun and Winters. In the Deserts of the West, still today, there are Tattered Ruins of that Map, inhabited by Animals and Beggars; in all the Land there is no other Relic of the Disciplines of Geography. Suarez Miranda,Viajes de varones prudentes, Libro IV,Cap. XLV, Lerida, 1658 From Jorge Luis Borges, Collected Fictions, Translated by Andrew Hurley Copyright Penguin 1999 . -B On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Mike Liebhold m...@well.comm...@well.comwrote: the arrival of viewfinder AR (augmented reality) is opening lots of opportunities for near field focal plane maps of very dense local data. e.g. show me labels, links, annotations and attributes for things and places in my field of view is 1:1 scale mapping a reasonable idea? can anyone here share pointers or stories about 1:1 scale mapping and why the idea has generated ridicule in the past? ??? ___ Geowanking mailing list Geowanking@geowanking.org http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org ___ Geowanking mailing list Geowanking@geowanking.org http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org ___ Geowanking mailing list Geowanking@geowanking.org http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org ___ Geowanking mailing list Geowanking@geowanking.org http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org
Re: [Geowanking] 1:1 scale mapping
Under this header do not neglect the scene in 'Blackadder Goes Forth' in which Blackadder, Darling, and Melchett are viewing what appears to be a small, tabletop model of the territory captured the previous day: And what is the scale of this, Capt. Darling? (Darling measures with tape) One to one, sir ___ Geowanking mailing list Geowanking@geowanking.org http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org
Re: [Geowanking] 1:1 scale mapping
And, of course, the classic: And then came the grandest idea of all! We actually made a map of the country, on the scale of a mile to the mile! Have you used it much? I enquired. It has never been spread out, yet, said Mein Herr: the farmers objected: they said it would cover the whole country, and shut out the sunlight! So we now use the country itself, as its own map, and I assure you it does nearly as well. -- Lewis Carroll, Sylvie and Bruno Concluded (1893). Here are a number of other thoughts... http://3stages.org/c/gq.cgi?first=QAMAP David Brandon Martin-Anderson wrote: Here's a story about 1:1 mapping: On Exactitude in Science . . . In that Empire, the Art of Cartography attained such Perfection that the map of a single Province occupied the entirety of a City, and the map of the Empire, the entirety of a Province. In time, those Unconscionable Maps no longer satisfied, and the Cartographers Guilds struck a Map of the Empire whose size was that of the Empire, and which coincided point for point with it. The following Generations, who were not so fond of the Study of Cartography as their Forebears had been, saw that that vast Map was Useless, and not without some Pitilessness was it, that they delivered it up to the Inclemencies of Sun and Winters. In the Deserts of the West, still today, there are Tattered Ruins of that Map, inhabited by Animals and Beggars; in all the Land there is no other Relic of the Disciplines of Geography. Suarez Miranda,Viajes de varones prudentes, Libro IV,Cap. XLV, Lerida, 1658 From Jorge Luis Borges, Collected Fictions, Translated by Andrew Hurley Copyright Penguin 1999 . -B On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Mike Liebhold m...@well.com wrote: the arrival of viewfinder AR (augmented reality) is opening lots of opportunities for near field focal plane maps of very dense local data. e.g. show me labels, links, annotations and attributes for things and places in my field of view is 1:1 scale mapping a reasonable idea? can anyone here share pointers or stories about 1:1 scale mapping and why the idea has generated ridicule in the past? ??? ___ Geowanking mailing list Geowanking@geowanking.org http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org ___ Geowanking mailing list Geowanking@geowanking.org http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org -- David Asbury GIS Analyst/Cartographer Center for Ecosystem Management and Restoration 4179 Piedmont Avenue, Suite 325 Oakland, CA 94611 Voice: 510.420.4565 x105 Fax: 510.420.1345 email: asbury at cemar.org web: cemar.org ___ Geowanking mailing list Geowanking@geowanking.org http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org
Re: [Geowanking] 1:1 scale mapping
wow thanks to both! this is a trove! http://3stages.org/c/gq.cgi?first=QAMAP jorge luis borges, lewis carrol, gregory bateson, david foster wallace, ... the crazy thing is we're building this 1:1 AR map. modern augmented aeality is becoming precisely what lewis carrol said here: the country itself, as its own map On 2/8/10 2:44 PM, David Asbury wrote: And, of course, the classic: And then came the grandest idea of all! We actually made a map of the country, on the scale of a mile to the mile! Have you used it much? I enquired. It has never been spread out, yet, said Mein Herr: the farmers objected: they said it would cover the whole country, and shut out the sunlight! So we now use the country itself, as its own map, and I assure you it does nearly as well. -- Lewis Carroll, Sylvie and Bruno Concluded (1893). Here are a number of other thoughts... http://3stages.org/c/gq.cgi?first=QAMAP David Brandon Martin-Anderson wrote: Here's a story about 1:1 mapping: On Exactitude in Science . . . In that Empire, the Art of Cartography attained such Perfection that the map of a single Province occupied the entirety of a City, and the map of the Empire, the entirety of a Province. In time, those Unconscionable Maps no longer satisfied, and the Cartographers Guilds struck a Map of the Empire whose size was that of the Empire, and which coincided point for point with it. The following Generations, who were not so fond of the Study of Cartography as their Forebears had been, saw that that vast Map was Useless, and not without some Pitilessness was it, that they delivered it up to the Inclemencies of Sun and Winters. In the Deserts of the West, still today, there are Tattered Ruins of that Map, inhabited by Animals and Beggars; in all the Land there is no other Relic of the Disciplines of Geography. Suarez Miranda,Viajes de varones prudentes, Libro IV,Cap. XLV, Lerida, 1658 From Jorge Luis Borges, Collected Fictions, Translated by Andrew Hurley Copyright Penguin 1999 . -B On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Mike Liebhold m...@well.com wrote: the arrival of viewfinder AR (augmented reality) is opening lots of opportunities for near field focal plane maps of very dense local data. e.g. show me labels, links, annotations and attributes for things and places in my field of view is 1:1 scale mapping a reasonable idea? can anyone here share pointers or stories about 1:1 scale mapping and why the idea has generated ridicule in the past? ??? ___ Geowanking mailing list Geowanking@geowanking.org http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org ___ Geowanking mailing list Geowanking@geowanking.org http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org ___ Geowanking mailing list Geowanking@geowanking.org http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org
Re: [Geowanking] 1:1 scale mapping
Mike, Lewis Carrol was, in my opinion, fascinated by the apparent absurdities that Mathematical concepts can generate when partnered with unbridled extrapolation (or interpolation). As a reality check I would say that * we are not really creating maps; we make models of the real world that can be presented as maps. * it will be a long time before we have anything like general coverage at a scale of even 1:1000, let alone 1:1 * we will not map everything - leaves on trees, blades of grass, door handles (the list goes on) Which leads me to the email signature I used to use before adopting the Sylvie and Bruno quote several years ago: If I have a 1:1 model of the universe, does that make me God? Cheers AlanK .And then came the grandest idea of all! We actually made a map of the country, on the scale of a mile to the mile! Have you used it much? I enquired. It has never been spread out, yet, said Mein Herr: the farmers objected: they said it would cover the whole country, and shut out the sunlight! So we now use the country itself, as its own map, and I assure you it does nearly as well. - Lewis Carroll. The complete Sylvie and Bruno. 1893. _ From: geowanking-boun...@geowanking.org [mailto:geowanking-boun...@geowanking.org] On Behalf Of Mike Liebhold Sent: Tuesday, 9 February 2010 10:22 AM To: David Asbury Cc: geowanking@geowanking.org Subject: Re: [Geowanking] 1:1 scale mapping wow thanks to both! this is a trove! http://3stages.org/c/gq.cgi?first=QAMAP jorge luis borges, lewis carrol, gregory bateson, david foster wallace, ... the crazy thing is we're building this 1:1 AR map. modern augmented aeality is becoming precisely what lewis carrol said here: the country itself, as its own map On 2/8/10 2:44 PM, David Asbury wrote: And, of course, the classic: And then came the grandest idea of all! We actually made a map of the country, on the scale of a mile to the mile! Have you used it much? I enquired. It has never been spread out, yet, said Mein Herr: the farmers objected: they said it would cover the whole country, and shut out the sunlight! So we now use the country itself, as its own map, and I assure you it does nearly as well. -- Lewis Carroll, Sylvie and Bruno Concluded (1893). Here are a number of other thoughts... http://3stages.org/c/gq.cgi?first=QAMAP David Brandon Martin-Anderson wrote: Here's a story about 1:1 mapping: On Exactitude in Science . . . In that Empire, the Art of Cartography attained such Perfection that the map of a single Province occupied the entirety of a City, and the map of the Empire, the entirety of a Province. In time, those Unconscionable Maps no longer satisfied, and the Cartographers Guilds struck a Map of the Empire whose size was that of the Empire, and which coincided point for point with it. The following Generations, who were not so fond of the Study of Cartography as their Forebears had been, saw that that vast Map was Useless, and not without some Pitilessness was it, that they delivered it up to the Inclemencies of Sun and Winters. In the Deserts of the West, still today, there are Tattered Ruins of that Map, inhabited by Animals and Beggars; in all the Land there is no other Relic of the Disciplines of Geography. Suarez Miranda,Viajes de varones prudentes, Libro IV,Cap. XLV, Lerida, 1658 From Jorge Luis Borges, Collected Fictions, Translated by Andrew Hurley Copyright Penguin 1999 . -B On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 2:25 PM, Mike Liebhold mailto:m...@well.com m...@well.com wrote: the arrival of viewfinder AR (augmented reality) is opening lots of opportunities for near field focal plane maps of very dense local data. e.g. show me labels, links, annotations and attributes for things and places in my field of view is 1:1 scale mapping a reasonable idea? can anyone here share pointers or stories about 1:1 scale mapping and why the idea has generated ridicule in the past? ??? ___ Geowanking mailing list Geowanking@geowanking.org http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org ___ Geowanking mailing list Geowanking@geowanking.org http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org ___ Geowanking mailing list Geowanking@geowanking.org http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org
Re: [Geowanking] 1:1 scale mapping
Don't forget that we regularly see maps that are even larger scale than 1:1! Xrays, circuit diagrams, CPU lithographs, organic chemical symbols. And CAD normally deals with what is essentially a 1:1 map. -Eric -=--=---===---=--=-=--=---==---=--=-=- Eric B. WolfNew! 720-334-7734 USGS Geographer Center of Excellence in GIScience PhD Student CU-Boulder - Geography GPG Public Key: http://www.h4h.net/ebwolf.public.key.txt On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:49 PM, Edward Vielmetti edward.vielme...@gmail.com wrote: Sounds like maps of Michigan. some examples http://www.michiganmittens.com/ http://cartophilia.com/blog/2008/11/michigan-mittens.html http://www.michiblogger.net/372.php and this from London http://www.neatorama.com/2008/01/02/glove-map/ On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 12:20 AM, R E Sieber resie...@gmail.com wrote: They’re also referred to as anthropomorphic maps. Got this one from one of my listservs AM are exactly scale 1:1. Anthropomorphic (body-part) maps were generated by configuring the virtual body of a god or goddess over the area to be mapped. Areas under each part of that body received the name of that part. These maps equate geography with (human) anatomy to produce place names that indicate where they are located relative to other places on the same map. Examples of these maps include Old Man Napi (creator of the Blackfoot indians) and his Old Woman wife in Alberta, Canada; Hermes centered at Mt. Hermon (now on the Israeli-Syrian cease-fire line); and Aphrodite in north Africa. Renee Alan Keown wrote: Mike, Lewis Carrol was, in my opinion, fascinated by the apparent absurdities that Mathematical concepts can generate when partnered with unbridled extrapolation (or interpolation). As a reality check I would say that § “we” are not really creating maps; we make “models” of the real world that can be presented as maps. § it will be a long time before we have anything like general coverage at a “scale” of even 1:1000, let alone 1:1 § “we” will not map everything – leaves on trees, blades of grass, door handles (the list goes on) Which leads me to the email signature I used to use before adopting the Sylvie and Bruno quote several years ago: “If I have a 1:1 model of the universe, does that make me God?” Cheers AlanK /“…And then came the grandest idea of all! / /We actually made a map of the country, on the scale of a mile to the mile!/ /Have you used it much? I enquired. // //It has never been spread out, yet, said Mein Herr: / /the farmers objected:/ /they said it would cover the whole country, and shut out the sunlight!/ /So we now use the country itself, as its own map, and I assure you it does nearly as well…”/ — Lewis Carroll. /The complete Sylvie and Bruno./ 1893. *From:* geowanking-boun...@geowanking.org [mailto:geowanking-boun...@geowanking.org] *On Behalf Of *Mike Liebhold *Sent:* Tuesday, 9 February 2010 10:22 AM *To:* David Asbury *Cc:* geowanking@geowanking.org *Subject:* Re: [Geowanking] 1:1 scale mapping wow thanks to both! this is a trove! http://3stages.org/c/gq.cgi?first=QAMAP jorge luis borges, lewis carrol, gregory bateson, david foster wallace, ... the crazy thing is we're building this 1:1 AR map. modern augmented aeality is becoming precisely what lewis carrol said here: the country itself, as its own map On 2/8/10 2:44 PM, David Asbury wrote: And, of course, the classic: And then came the grandest idea of all! We actually made a map of the country, on the scale of a mile to the mile! Have you used it much? I enquired. It has never been spread out, yet, said Mein Herr: the farmers objected: they said it would cover the whole country, and shut out the sunlight! So we now use the country itself, as its own map, and I assure you it does nearly as well. -- Lewis Carroll, Sylvie and Bruno Concluded (1893). Here are a number of other thoughts... http://3stages.org/c/gq.cgi?first=QAMAP David Brandon Martin-Anderson wrote: Here's a story about 1:1 mapping: On Exactitude in Science . . . In that Empire, the Art of Cartography attained such Perfection that the map of a single Province occupied the entirety of a City, and the map of the Empire, the entirety of a Province. In time, those Unconscionable Maps no longer satisfied, and the Cartographers Guilds struck a Map of the Empire whose size was that of the Empire, and which coincided point for point with it. The following Generations, who were not so fond of the Study of Cartography as their Forebears had been, saw that that vast Map was Useless, and not without some Pitilessness was it, that they delivered it up to the Inclemencies of Sun and Winters. In the Deserts of the West
