Quoting Benjamin Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Java is inherently multi-threaded and when using native threads (a must
on
multi-CPUs and on production JVMs from Sun) it inherits the threading
model of the OS it runs on. The "every thread is a process" model
doesn't
seem to scale under big
In a message dated: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:56:24 EST
Derek Martin said:
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Niall Kavanagh wrote:
We'll all chip in and buy you a squegie for your monitor then.
Hehe... I slay me. Yet another stupid "reply-all' reflex... you'd be
amazed at how often that gets me into trouble...
In a message dated: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 09:35:30 EST
Niall Kavanagh said:
We've learned quite a bit about our hero in the few episodes we've had,
unfortunately, those episodes were quite "clean". It seems we've moved
into new territory on this list ;)
Really? Perhaps you'd be interested in a
[lots of more good stuff here], I wonder what people think is the
direction Linux will take from here, and what challenges it should be
prepared to face that it currently isn't. Comments anyone?
Challenges? Two issues that pop into mind are fragmentation and
commercial pressures.
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Chester Martel wrote:
The biggest improvement among vendors would be an 'easier' anybody can
install package and/or better installation documentation. Reading this
Honestly, I think RedHat (and maybe others) has that already, at least for
new installs. I was able to
Quoting Greg Kettmann [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
But Linux is still extremely difficult. Yes, I can hear the denials
flooding in but it's true. I've been doing this for twenty years and I
KNOW
I know what I'm doing, yet I find it difficult. The scary part is people
come to me for advice ;-)
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Randy Edwards wrote:
Despite my liking that idea and attitude, imagine it a couple of years
from now. Let's say SO, for an example, is as widely used on GNU/Linux as
is MSOffice on Windows. Let's say that GNU/Linux is big -- really big.
Would those same developers
Quoting Derek Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Chester Martel wrote:
The biggest improvement among vendors would be an 'easier' anybody can
install package and/or better installation documentation. Reading this
Honestly, I think RedHat (and maybe others) has that already, at
On 31 Jan 2000, Derek Atkins wrote:
I'd like to see Linux be a real condender to replace Windows. In
order to do that, I think linux has a long way to go in the usability
area. Ease of installation, maintenence, and everyday use are key
to making Linux as easy to use as Windows. Without
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Thomas Charron wrote:
Now, if properly setup for an end user, it's a different story. My wife, and
even 5 year old son, can easily use KDE or Gnome, and they do regularly.. They
can do practically anything as an end user.
Precisely. As for installing packages,
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Derek Martin wrote:
Besides that though, I just wanted to get an idea of what people think
Linux is missing, particularly in the context of continuing to be a viable
platform for both servers and desktops, both in and out of the enterprise.
From an end users viewpoint,
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Thomas Charron wrote:
Yep, it's a whole world better then the old days of downloading Slackware
install floppies on a 9600 baud modem.. ;-P But in oder to get to the point
of mass acceptence, a user shouldn't have to look at the docs. I know, I know,
it's one of
The future What an interesting question. I actually see Linux going
in every direction, purly due to it's open source nature. If even one
person has a need that they voice, other poeple may have the same need,
and thus is born a development team ;-)
But seriously, some of the areas
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Thomas Charron wrote:
I'm not sure I've ever heard a 'warning of the immenent fragmentation'
besides in FUD statements,
Yes, but that's what I'm trying to fight! :) Even amongst our own people!
software has become very easy with RPM or .deb files, and there are
Quoting Derek Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Thomas Charron wrote:
Sure, but we have that with GnoRPM and KDE's version, whatever that is...
The interface is a little different, but it takes only a few minutes to
learn it. What you are really describing is mankind's apparent
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Thomas Charron wrote:
She buys new hardware. She buys a new monitor. Heck, she buys a new
printer. And yes, contrary to popular demand, even idiots can setup a printer
using that 'add printer' icon. And as screwy as Win32 is sometimes at
installing new hardware,
Quoting Derek Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Thomas Charron wrote:
Ah, yes, but RH has Kwanza or whatever it's called :) So in theory, it can
do that too... Adding the printer via redhat's print manager isn't that
tough either. Before you blame Linux entirely, how about
Quoting Derek Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Thomas Charron wrote:
Well, most *like* the idea of simply double clicking on an exe, and
breezing
thru the default, untill 'Finish'. The one hurdle I see here is
administrative
access to a machine. I'd love to see RPM
Quoting Greg Kettmann [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Finally, the registry. Arghhh, don't even go there. Perhaps you could
rearrange
the text files or have a better system for cataloging them but if Linux
goes to a
registry, I quit! ;-)
What people don't seem to understand is, we really already USE
*climbs up onto soap-box*
Installation:
As has been pointed out by many people, OSes are hard to install. This is
due mainly to the nature of the IBM-PC platform. This isn't ever going to
change for this platform. The solution is to have the professionals -- the
system integrators, like
Hi,
Maybe what you should look at is the recovery options that Linux lacks
for when the home/end user messes something up. But again, my concerns
Alright, I have to say this. I have seen my brother suffering with win
installs. Just keep installing a few games, and then deinstalling them, and
you
On 31 Jan 2000, Derek Atkins wrote:
Derek,
* Currently she uses AOL.. There is no AOL client for Linux.
My prejudices get in the way here too... no one should use AOL :)
However, this is not a shortcoming of linux, it is a shortcoming of AOL.
Then again, the type of people who currently
Thomas Charron wrote:
And no, mankind *doesn't* like to learn something new and different. They
want it available in 5 minutes via a driveup window. They want someone else to
grow it, someone else to ship it, someone else to cook it, and someone else to
deliver it, so they can consume it
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Jason Nelson wrote:
Getting the big manufactures to sell preinstalled Linux machines I believe
would be part of the answer here. Its a bit of chicken and egg issue.
Yes.
2) ease of maintenance: What maintanence? Once she's got an account,
and you've set up her
Quoting Benjamin Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Thomas Charron wrote:
What people don't seem to understand is, we really already USE
registries.
They are just application level registries.
Um, no. As you went on to say, we use config files. So call them that.
The
Quoting Randy Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Installation of packages? No way in heck. ;-P Perhaps with Debians
package manager, but certainly not RedHat's RPM..
Debian's package tools require one to be root to do anything other than
look at the packages installed. You don't mind giving
What are you saying, that this doesn't happen in the windows world?
Of course it does. But let's face it, part of the reason why Win9x is so
bad is because of legacy support for poorly written apps. I'm guessing that
GNU/Linux will eventually start to feel the same pressures.
For the
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Jerry Callen wrote:
I'm not sure most non-Unix-savvy people would find installing new apps
all that easy. It's pretty mindless under Windows, and in my experience,
it *usually* works.
It's alredy getting that way though. Linux has autorun, and I installed
Quake3 for
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Thomas Charron wrote:
And here's an example of why people would be concerned about fragmentation.
Can the hardware manufacters include docs on how to install a printer under
RedhatKDE, RedhatGnome, etc.. etc..? Unification is what makes this type of
this possible,
Derek Martin wrote:
On 31 Jan 2000, Derek Atkins wrote:
Derek,
* Currently she uses AOL.. There is no AOL client for Linux.
My prejudices get in the way here too... no one should use AOL:)
However, this is not a shortcoming of linux, it is a shortcoming
of AOL. Then again, the
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Benjamin Scott wrote:
*climbs up onto soap-box*
Installation:
As has been pointed out by many people, OSes are hard to install. This is
{SNIP}
I hear it said a lot that Linux has a higher learning curve then Windows.
No, it doesn't. If you get a
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Niall Kavanagh wrote:
I can't help it! ;) Most of my development experience has been Win32, and
Poor Bastard!
lately for the web (backend on Win32/SiteServer/SQLServer/ASP and
Linux/Apache/MySQL/PHP) which is mostly Win32 clients. Unlike a lot of folks
I don't think
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Randy Edwards wrote:
GNU/Linux will eventually start to feel the same pressures.
UGH That gets on my nerves. I don't run Debian, I run RedHat Linux.
There's no GNU in the name.
Sorry, just being a bitch.
--
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?""Who watches the
I'd like to see Linux be a real condender to replace Windows. In
order to do that, I think linux has a long way to go in the usability
area. Ease of installation, maintenence, and everyday use are key
to making Linux as easy to use as Windows. Without that usability,
I couldn't even conceive
Derek,
* Currently she uses AOL.. There is no AOL client for Linux.
* She uses Word and Excel. Or maybe Works, I don't recall. However,
I think she could probably use just about any word processing system.
* She uses QuickBooks. There is no alternative for Linux
* I think she may have
Derek I think you are right, the real issue is probably installing /
upgrading applications. This tends to be the real baga-boo on all systems
though, not just linux.
The RedHat installation process is easy enough compared to win. But what
happens when the system gets out of wack? I personally
1) ease of installation: Did she install Windows?
For the "moms" and "grandparents" this point is moot. Installing Linux can
be just as easy if not easier than installing windows (though I have to
admit, Windows 2000 and Windows Millennium are a breath of fresh air
compared to NT/98/95 during
admit, Windows 2000 and Windows Millennium are a breath of fresh air
compared to NT/98/95 during the installation process). Most of these
people
I'd expect you do say that! :-)
I can't help it! ;) Most of my development experience has been Win32, and
lately for the web (backend on
Derek,
Maybe you are looking at this the wrong way. Maybe you shouldn't be
looking for something that *Linux* is lacking, but rather, find
something that is lacking from OTHER OS's, and do it for Linux before
they have it for anything else. What would be something really cool to
have,
I don't think that most of us have a problem with the concept of a
registry. The Windows(X) implementation is really the problem. A corrupt
registry can render a Windows system useless.
On 31 Jan 00, at 12:25, Thomas Charron wrote:
A registry is simply a unified system for accessing
Derek Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On 31 Jan 2000, Derek Atkins wrote:
Derek,
* Currently she uses AOL.. There is no AOL client for Linux.
My prejudices get in the way here too... no one should use AOL :)
However, this is not a shortcoming of linux, it is a shortcoming of
Quoting Jerry Feldman [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On 31 Jan 00, at 12:25, Thomas Charron wrote:
A registry is simply a unified system for accessing configuration data.
Period. You call them config files. Go ahead, but they are no more then
simplified registries, mostly using ASCII based
As Linux becomes more and more prevalent, maybe Intuit will port Quick
Books to Linux. Personally, I use MoneyDance for my personal
checkbook. The reason I did not use GNUCash was that there were
several prerequisites I had to load, and one of them would not build, so
instead of fixing the
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Kenneth E. Lussier wrote:
Derek,
Maybe you are looking at this the wrong way. Maybe you shouldn't be
looking for something that *Linux* is lacking, but rather, find
something that is lacking from OTHER OS's, and do it for Linux before
they have it for anything
We'll all chip in and buy you a squegie for your monitor then.
-Original Message-
From: Derek Martin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 2:44 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: The future of linux
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Kenneth E. Lussier wrote:
Derek
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Derek Martin wrote:
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Kenneth E. Lussier wrote:
Yeah but you know what, Tom C. convinced me. I have everything I really
need, so rather than doing all that work I'm just gonna sit in my room
looking at porn and beat off... :)
Sorry everyone, I
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Niall Kavanagh wrote:
We'll all chip in and buy you a squegie for your monitor then.
Hehe... I slay me. Yet another stupid "reply-all' reflex... you'd be
amazed at how often that gets me into trouble...
--
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?""Who watches the watchmen?"
I have two comments.
First, I know for a fact that AOL is working on things Linux related. I
don't know exactly what that means but I know people that work there that
are working on Linux products. I'm not really at liberty to discuss much
more I just know I've helped them out with Linux
Quoting Derek Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Kenneth E. Lussier wrote:
Derek,
Maybe you are looking at this the wrong way. Maybe you shouldn't be
looking for something that *Linux* is lacking, but rather, find
something that is lacking from OTHER OS's, and do it for
In a message dated: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:31:24 EST
Derek Martin said:
Having seen Linux go from little more than a fledgeling Unix-like
operating system that I could write my shell script homework on to a
well-supported OS that I now use for everything, including "desk-top"
applications like
There's no GNU in the name.
Right. I suppose technically it's not in the name; it's on your disk.
:-)
--
Regards, | SAT practice quiz: Microsoft is to software as ...
.|Answer: McDonalds is to gourmet cooking.
Randy|
| mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Thomas Charron wrote:
Linux also supports the idea of having multiple versions of shared
libraries installed at once, something Windows (so far) cannot do.
Woah there, Nelly.. Windows supports the same sort of shared library
support that Linux does.
Read it again.
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Thomas Charron wrote:
Yep, but if done in an intelligent manner, a 'Linux Registry' could make
machine configuration data, etc, easily restorable, along with offering a
common interface to this type of data.. Heck, never mind Linux, *nix in
general..
You still
In a message dated: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 15:52:10 EST
Benjamin Scott said:
(Hmm, I better be careful, or I'll cut in on Paul's sarcasm service. ;)
Nahhh. I'm way to busy to service all the requests for sarcasm I get ;)
I need help from those willing and able to take on such tasks. Consider it
In a message dated: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 14:52:32 EST
Derek Martin said:
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Derek Martin wrote:
On Mon, 31 Jan 2000, Kenneth E. Lussier wrote:
Yeah but you know what, Tom C. convinced me. I have everything I really
need, so rather than doing all that work I'm just gonna sit
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