RE: Homework problems (was: extract string)
Answer C: Who cares? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Scott Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 4:01 PM To: gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org Subject: Homework problems (was: extract string) Assume it is a homework problem. Does it make a real difference whether the student learns the material from the text book, this list, or some random web page found via Google? ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Homework problems (was: extract string)
I agree.. Does it matter. We're here to help, discuss, and answer questions. If you feel that your answer will cause more problems in the long run, then don't answer. Not having a degree, some of my best information has come from places like this and other sources on the internet. In fact, during my interview for my current job I stated that knowing who to ask and where to get information is far more important then knowing the information. It's impossible to know everything. If we give this person the wrong answer, and they fail, well.. that's what you get for trusting the list. If they get it right, good for them, they still got the job done. Answer C: Who cares? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ben Scott Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 4:01 PM To: gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org Subject: Homework problems (was: extract string) Assume it is a homework problem. Does it make a real difference whether the student learns the material from the text book, this list, or some random web page found via Google? ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Homework problems (was: extract string)
On Tuesday 10 January 2006 04:13 pm, Brian wrote: Answer C: Who cares? All of us will care when the country has to depend on the products of today's education system. Get ready for it. The standards are so incredibly low that these graduates will not even know the buzz words of technology. The professors look the other way on all manner of things that were cheating when I got my education. Copying from other students, lifting solutions from the Internet, putting all the test answers on one's programmable calculator, and other guarantees of ignorance are completely acceptable. The cruel world will reveal their error when it is too late for them or us to recover from it. It is not just in tech schools. Can you imagine a cum laude English graduate who cannot spell or write a grammatical sentence? Well, our family has just paid for one. Jim Kuzdrall ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Homework problems (was: extract string)
Jim Kuzdrall wrote: On Tuesday 10 January 2006 04:13 pm, Brian wrote: Answer C: Who cares? All of us will care when the country has to depend on the products of today's education system. Get ready for it. The standards are so incredibly low that these graduates will not even know the buzz words of technology. All education system debate aside... How do we, as a list, tell what's a homework problem and what's a legit question. And if we start blocking homework questions a cheater will just work around that and word their question into something that seems like a personal or work related problem rather then a homework problem. Just let it go, if you think it's somebody cheating then don't answer, or give them a vague answer or point them to places where they can learn about it rather then copy it off of. ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Homework problems (was: extract string)
On Jan 10, 2006, at 18:05, Travis Roy wrote: How do we, as a list, tell what's a homework problem and what's a legit question. I think there's little substitute for knowing the membership. Zhao is a programmer for Dartmouth Medical School. -Bill - Bill McGonigle, Owner Work: 603.448.4440 BFC Computing, LLC Home: 603.448.1668 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cell: 603.252.2606 http://www.bfccomputing.com/Page: 603.442.1833 Blog: http://blog.bfccomputing.com/ VCard: http://bfccomputing.com/vcard/bill.vcf ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
RE: Homework problems (was: extract string)
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Kuzdrall Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 5:45 PM To: gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org Subject: Re: Homework problems (was: extract string) All of us will care when the country has to depend on the products of today's education system. Get ready for it. The standards are so incredibly low that these graduates will not even know the buzz words of technology. Our country, as a whole, has never really depended on the cheaters and slackers (we'll skip the shooting-fish-in-a-barrel political jokes here). Those are the people that are sweeping our hallways, hanging bumpers on the assembly lines, etc. Our country participates in the World Economy, we trend toward the solutions that provide the best cost/performance ratio, often looking globally for the answer. Our justice system was founded on the idea that It is better to let 1000 guilty men go free than to convict 1 innocent man. On a Linux/FOSS oriented list, newsgroup, etc, I would rather answer 1000 homework questions, than risk alienating 1 potential comrade. And, as we've come to find out, the OP was simply asking a legitimate question that merely appeared homeworky. I don't have enough time to be that judgmental and concerned about the impact on the freedom of our country because someone is too lazy to do their own homework. Ask a question of me, if I can I'll answer it, if I can't, I'll try to point you in the right direction. If you get Extra Credit for my answer, then you owe me a dollar, you can paypal it to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] :) ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Homework problems (was: extract string)
On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 04:01:05PM -0500, Ben Scott wrote: On 1/10/06, Jeff Kinz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now your Lug can achieve its financial funding goals simply by charging 25 cents for each shell scripting homework problem answered and 50 cents for extended explanations such as rendered below. :-) I was wondering if I should raise the Ya know, this looks an awful lot like a homework problem to me... question. But I also considered the following: My homework business model was simply a tongue in cheek comment 'cause I was leaving and didn't have time to add anything substantive to the thread. Assume it is a homework problem. Does it make a real difference whether the student learns the material from the text book, this list, or some random web page found via Google? I've always found all of the above to be useful tools for learning. Well, not always - Google hit a dry spell from 1973 to 1997 or thereabouts :-) umm - wait a minute... (Googles for Google founding date.. ) 1998. And if the student hands in a Perl one-liner in a basic class on shell scripting, the resulting student/instructor discuss will doubtless by very educational. heh heh, very! -- Jeff Kinz, Emergent Research, Hudson, MA. speech recognition software may have been used to create this e-mail The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding. - Brandeis To think contrary to one's era is heroism. But to speak against it is madness. -- Eugene Ionesco ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Homework problems (was: extract string)
On 1/10/06, Bill McGonigle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 10, 2006, at 18:05, Travis Roy wrote: How do we, as a list, tell what's a homework problem and what's a legit question.I think there's little substitute for knowing the membership.Zhao isa programmer for Dartmouth Medical School. For, or attending? ;-) A programmer that doesn't know how to grep and split text strings.. Well.. Isn't.. Thomas
Re: Homework problems (was: extract string)
On 1/10/06, Thomas Charron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A programmer that doesn't know how to grep and split text strings.. Believe it or not, there are environments *other* then nix, and a great many well-qualified professionals have never touched nix. I don't just mean doze, either. Classic Mac, VMS, the various IBM mainframe and mini systems, and other, less well know worlds have syntax and tools all their own. I, for one, think we should be welcoming to newcomers to the nix world -- not scold them for being new. -- Ben Used to be a DOS weenie Scott ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Homework problems (was: extract string)
On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 07:56:46PM -0500, Thomas Charron wrote: On 1/10/06, Bill McGonigle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 10, 2006, at 18:05, Travis Roy wrote: How do we, as a list, tell what's a homework problem and what's a legit question. I think there's little substitute for knowing the membership. Zhao is a programmer for Dartmouth Medical School. For, or attending? ;-) Hopefully things haven't gotten so bad that programmers are now attending medical school for their next career move. ;-) -- Jeff Kinz, Emergent Research, Hudson, MA. speech recognition software may have been used to create this e-mail The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding. - Brandeis To think contrary to one's era is heroism. But to speak against it is madness. -- Eugene Ionesco ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Homework problems (was: extract string)
On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 07:56:46PM -0500, Thomas Charron wrote: A programmer that doesn't know how to grep and split text strings.. Well.. Isn't.. I know of several ways to do it, but none of them would have worked as well as the cut solution presented here. I've been working on Linux as my primary platform for 2.5 years, I've been coding in various languages for 5. I'm relatively intelligent, know how to use awk, grep, and sed. Considering the huge number of programmers who are doomed to forever live and work in a GUI-only MSVC++ (or whatever it's called) without the tools such as sed, grep and awk, I'd say I'm in the top 50% as far as knowledge goes for programmers -- and I think I'm probably being relatively modest. The lack of knowledge of a simple command line tool to do what you want it to does not indicate whether someone is a programmer or not. It simply indicates one thing -- their level of experience with core *nix tools. Lack of that is not an indication of deficiencies in their ability to program. I'm assuming that your post was made with tongue in cheek, but I think it's a ridiculous statement and decided to do what all good people on the internet do: blow it out of proportion in a rant on a mailing list that few will ever care about. (I think I'm supposed to call you Hitler now or something. Godwin told me that once.) -- Christopher Schmidt Web Developer signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Homework problems (was: extract string)
On Jan 10, 2006, at 20:16, Christopher Schmidt wrote: The lack of knowledge of a simple command line tool to do what you want it to does not indicate whether someone is a programmer or not. It simply indicates one thing -- their level of experience with core *nix tools. Lack of that is not an indication of deficiencies in their ability to program. Right - Zhao is pretty new to unix and linux. For those following along, notice he didn't say, 'is there any way to do this' but 'what's the most efficient way to do this'? (paraphrasing). What matters is not whether one has achieved enlightenment but rather that one is on the path to enlightenment. -Bill - Bill McGonigle, Owner Work: 603.448.4440 BFC Computing, LLC Home: 603.448.1668 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cell: 603.252.2606 http://www.bfccomputing.com/Page: 603.442.1833 Blog: http://blog.bfccomputing.com/ VCard: http://bfccomputing.com/vcard/bill.vcf ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Homework problems (was: extract string)
On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 08:16:47PM -0500, Christopher Schmidt wrote: On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 07:56:46PM -0500, Thomas Charron wrote: A programmer that doesn't know how to grep and split text strings.. Well.. Isn't.. I know of several ways to do it, but none of them would have worked as well as the cut solution presented here. I've been working on Linux as my primary platform for 2.5 years, I've been coding in various languages for 5. I'm relatively intelligent, know how to use awk, grep, and sed. Considering the huge number of programmers who are doomed to forever live and work in a GUI-only MSVC++ (or whatever it's called) without the tools such as sed, grep and awk, I'd say I'm in the top 50% as far as knowledge goes for programmers -- and I think I'm probably being relatively modest. The lack of knowledge of a simple command line tool to do what you want it to does not indicate whether someone is a programmer or not. It simply indicates one thing -- their level of experience with core *nix tools. Lack of that is not an indication of deficiencies in their ability to program. Easily fixed, All we need is the appropriate man page:.. http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=19990216;-) I have that one on the cover of my Intro to Linux slides -- Jeff Kinz, Emergent Research, Hudson, MA. speech recognition software may have been used to create this e-mail The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding. - Brandeis To think contrary to one's era is heroism. But to speak against it is madness. -- Eugene Ionesco ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
Re: Homework problems (was: extract string)
On Tuesday 10 January 2006 06:05 pm, Travis Roy wrote: Just let it go, if you think it's somebody cheating then don't answer, or give them a vague answer or point them to places where they can learn about it rather then copy it off of. That is my technique too. I get to answer a lot of questions about IR optics and detector physics on my web site. If it appears I am doing someone's term project, I start outlining how to get the answers to the problem rather than giving the answers. I must confess, though, that I have a hard time keeping my mouth (keyboard) shut if I know the answer. There have always been cheaters, but the American culture has changed dramatically in the last 40 years. Claiming the work of others as your own has become completely accepted. Jim Kuzdrall ___ gnhlug-discuss mailing list gnhlug-discuss@mail.gnhlug.org http://mail.gnhlug.org/mailman/listinfo/gnhlug-discuss
