On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 14:45:46 -0700, Sam Siegel wrote:
...
I've yet to see an open system person have even a vague understanding
of record oriented I/O or PDS processing.
OS/360 and its progeny have only a vague understanding of record oriented
I/O. Consider that QSAM is the record oriented
We've probably all thought that looking (in ignorance perhaps) at
perl initially.
Not I. Admittedly I thought[1] that Perl was ugly, but I also thought
that it was useful.
[1] In fact, I still think that it's ugly. But I use it when it's
the best tool for the task at hand.
Shmuel
In 20110723171032.521978da@xpfs, on 07/23/2011
at 05:10 PM, Shane ibm-m...@tpg.com.au said:
We've probably all thought that looking (in ignorance perhaps) at
perl initially.
Not I. Admittedly I thought[1] that Perl was ugly, but I also thought
that it was useful.
[1] In fact, I still think
In 1307526334117142.wa.jbendichaustin.rr@bama.ua.edu, on
07/23/2011
at 12:27 AM, Justin R. Bendich jbend...@austin.rr.com said:
No matter what the version, perl is an abomination unto the LORD.
De gustibus. I would describe C in those terms.
Really, you can't use REXX?
I do use Rexx,
On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 00:27:13 -0500 Justin R. Bendichwrote:
No matter what the version, perl is an abomination
We've probably all thought that looking (in ignorance perhaps) at perl
initially.
Once having learnt it to some extent, it is astoundingly efficient and
flexible. When was the last time
Heretic! grin
I love Perl. But REXX is very good too. But I would like ooREXX on z/OS.
And I want Perl regular expressions put into legacy z/OS facilities,
including REXX. I'd love the PDF editor to be able to do Perl, or even
POSIX, regular expression finds and changes! It already has the p'...'
In 3204749345014098.wa.paulgboulderaim@bama.ua.edu, on
07/21/2011
at 08:51 AM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com said:
Has anyone tried compiling it with the ASCII compiler switch (and
XPLINK) and relying on code page autoconversion?
I doubt it.
Would this even be useful?
I doubt it.
In 1311257568.41045.yahoomai...@web82206.mail.mud.yahoo.com, on
07/21/2011
at 07:12 AM, Lloyd Fuller leful...@sbcglobal.net said:
I do not know if it is from the IBM Ported Tools or where, but we
have Perl on z/OS:
That's 5.8.7; it's well and truly obsolete.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.)
I do not know if it is from the IBM Ported Tools or where, but we
have Perl on z/OS:
That's 5.8.7; it's well and truly obsolete.
No matter what the version, perl is an abomination unto the LORD.
Really, you can't use REXX? Maybe with a dash of ASM thrown in?
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz,
In 1311041408.15160.3.ca...@mckown5.johnmckown.net, on 07/18/2011
at 09:10 PM, John McKown joa...@swbell.net said:
PDS is a weird beastie. IMO, the closest analogy would be a directory
with very restricted file names.
Various other operating systems, e.g., EXEC 8, have equivalents. What
In 1311041136.15160.0.ca...@mckown5.johnmckown.net, on 07/18/2011
at 09:05 PM, John McKown joa...@swbell.net said:
I don't, in general. It is more just a step above assembler.
Even that I'd challenge. It *might* be a step above BAL, but not above
any of the macro-assemblers from OS/360
In
a2ba2a74a6859e45a47cfcb42d78769c44b374c...@gvw1340exa.americas.hpqcorp.net,
on 07/19/2011
at 07:39 PM, Schumacher, Otto otto.schumac...@hp.com said:
Easier for whom? I have not seen anything developed in Unix that
communicates with z/OS made easier by the implementation of Unix
Well,
On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 21:03:51 -0400, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote:
Well, pipes are sometimes useful.
Amen.
Perl is better than Rexx for parsing. Unfortunately, no current Perl
is available for MVS due to EBCDIC-Unicode conflicts.
Has anyone tried compiling it with the ASCII compiler switch
On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 08:51:22 -0500 Paul Gilmartin wrote:
Has anyone tried compiling it with the ASCII compiler switch (and
XPLINK) and relying on code page autoconversion? Would this
even be useful? What is the intrinsic code page for Perl? UTF-8?
Is this within autoconversion's
easier - Effectively replacing JCL with Unix
like commands)
On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 21:03:51 -0400, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote:
Well, pipes are sometimes useful.
Amen.
Perl is better than Rexx for parsing. Unfortunately, no current Perl
is available for MVS due to EBCDIC-Unicode conflicts.
Has
On Thu, 2011-07-21 at 10:12 -0400, Lloyd Fuller wrote:
/VERSYSB/usr/lpp/perl/lib/5.8.7/
As does our 1.10 system. But my Linux desktop is running 5.12.3 and Gil
did say no current Perl.
--
David Andrews
A. Duda Sons, Inc.
david.andr...@duda.com
:
/VERSYSB/usr/lpp/perl/lib/5.8.7/
Lloyd
- Original Message
From: Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Sent: Thu, July 21, 2011 9:51:22 AM
Subject: Perl (was: Making Z/OS easier - Effectively replacing JCL with
Unix
like commands)
On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 21:03
But AFAIK you have to order PERL explicitly as a Ported Tool feature while
'composing' your ServerPac
in Shopz. It won't be delivered automatically as I remember.
Pls. correct me when I should be wrong ...
ciao Lutz
--
On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 09:46:54 -0500, Lutz Hamann lutz.ham...@betasystems.com
wrote:
But AFAIK you have to order PERL explicitly as a Ported Tool feature while
'composing' your ServerPac
in Shopz. It won't be delivered automatically as I remember.
Pls. correct me when I should be wrong ...
The
/OS easier - Effectively
replacing JCL with Unix like commands)
On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 21:03:51 -0400, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote:
Well, pipes are sometimes useful.
Amen.
Perl is better than Rexx for parsing. Unfortunately, no current Perl
is available for MVS due to EBCDIC-Unicode
On Thu, 2011-07-21 at 11:02 -0400, Paul Gilmartin wrote:
(And David A. attributed to me a statement where I was merely quoting Shmuel.
Erk. My bad, as the kids say.
--
David Andrews
A. Duda Sons, Inc.
david.andr...@duda.com
On Thu, 21 Jul 2011 10:10:43 -0500, McKown, John wrote:
[If] I had access to IBM's C compiler, I might actually try it. But I don't,
so I can't. Perhaps I could afford Dignus' compiler to run at home on my Linux
machine and do cross compiles. But I don't know and I'm short on disposable
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Rick Fochtman
--snip
In my 20 plus year career I have seen a lot more people with mainframe
backgrounds expressing a
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 7:10 PM, John McKown joa...@swbell.net wrote:
On Mon, 2011-07-18 at 14:45 -0700, Sam Siegel wrote:
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Wayne Driscoll wdri...@us.ibm.com wrote:
In my 20 plus year career I have seen a lot more people with mainframe
backgrounds expressing a
: Monday, July 18, 2011 9:10 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Making Z/OS easier - Effectively replacing JCL with Unix like
commands
On Mon, 2011-07-18 at 14:45 -0700, Sam Siegel wrote:
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Wayne Driscoll wdri...@us.ibm.com
wrote:
In my 20 plus year career I have
: IBM Mainframe Discussion List
[mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Jim Thomas
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 11:12 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Making Z/OS easier - Effectively replacing JCL
with Unix like commands
Ummm say doc (switching to Bugs Bunny accent) ... would
)
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf
Of McKown, John
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 11:19 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Making Z/OS easier - Effectively replacing JCL with Unix like
commands
I'm going to patent the big toe
[mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of
Jim Thomas
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 12:43 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Making Z/OS easier - Effectively replacing JCL with Unix like
commands
Sir,
ROFL !! ... oh good ... it's just your big toes ... I'm going to
patent all my toes and even my
--snip
In my 20 plus year career I have seen a lot more people with mainframe
backgrounds expressing a willingness to learn and integrate usage of
non-mainframe technology than I have seen people from an
: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of
Jim Thomas
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 12:43 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Making Z/OS easier - Effectively replacing JCL with Unix like
commands
Sir,
ROFL !! ... oh good ... it's just your big toes ... I'm going
Thanks for all the questions. I'll put the questions and answers
together for convenience.
Paul Gilmartin wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 23:35:30 +1000, Clement Clarke wrote:
Isn't much of this what SMS is designed to do nowadays?
You can still use SMS. Jol uses a simple VSAM file to store the
Hi
Till now I didn't find a working link to a description/download
On 7/18/2011 2:41 PM, Clement Clarke wrote:
Thanks for all the questions. I'll put the questions and answers
together for convenience.
Paul Gilmartin wrote:
On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 23:35:30 +1000, Clement Clarke wrote:
of laboring in assembler.
Charles
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf
Of Clement Clarke
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 8:42 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Making Z/OS easier - Effectively replacing JCL with Unix like
commands
On 7/18/2011 9:22 AM, Charles Mills wrote:
The Mainframe version written in Assembler. The PC version is written in
C.
Somewhat OT but why? Why not C on the mainframe? Why two code bases, one
fairly easy to debug and one relatively hard to debug?
Perhaps there are historical reasons - one
In 3339201005293115.wa.paulgboulderaim@bama.ua.edu, on
07/17/2011
at 11:13 AM, Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com said:
It's pretty hard to tell whether you're a Luddite or merely a
masochist.
Especially if he's neither, just more perceptive than you.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz,
charl...@mcn.org (Charles Mills) writes:
Somewhat OT but why? Why not C on the mainframe? Why two code bases, one
fairly easy to debug and one relatively hard to debug?
I am thrilled with writing software for the mainframe in C (C++ actually)
after years of laboring in assembler.
the los
In 4e243efe.2010...@valley.net, on 07/18/2011
at 10:11 AM, Gerhard Postpischil gerh...@valley.net said:
Good for you, but some of us have built extensive macro and
subroutine libraries to use with assembler, and find it as fast and
easy to use those than to live with (the confining
In m38vrvy1w2@garlic.com, on 07/18/2011
at 12:44 PM, Anne Lynn Wheeler l...@garlic.com said:
However, before that mainframe BSD unix shipped
My understanding is that none of freebsd, netbsd, openbsd[1] can pass
the UNIX® certification from TUG (formerly X-Open).
[1] With corrected
On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 19:34:25 +0200, Michel Castelein wrote:
JCL consists of about 120 words last I checked (not counting those goofy
conditional statements IBM created recently for those who couldn't
comprehend COND codes), average batch job uses about 20 or 25. ...
It's pretty hard to tell
W dniu 2011-07-18 22:15, Paul Gilmartin pisze:
[...]
As upper management perceives, even through media such as airline
magazines, that (some; I'm confident not all) z/OS systems programmers
exhibit public delight in unwillingness to assimilate new technology and
in performing their jobs in a
.
===
Wayne Driscoll
OMEGAMON DB2 L3 Support/Development
wdrisco(AT)us.ibm.com
===
From:
R.S. r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl
To:
IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Date:
07/18/2011 03:50 PM
Subject:
Re: Making Z/OS easier - Effectively
===
From:
R.S. r.skoru...@bremultibank.com.pl
To:
IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Date:
07/18/2011 03:50 PM
Subject:
Re: Making Z/OS easier - Effectively replacing JCL with Unix like commands
Sent by:
IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
W dniu 2011-07-18 22:15
Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf
Of Sam Siegel
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 4:46 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Making Z/OS easier - Effectively replacing JCL with Unix like
commands
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Wayne Driscoll wdri...@us.ibm.com wrote
)
636-294-1014(res)
j...@thethomasresidence.us (Email)
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu] On Behalf
Of R.S.
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 3:42 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Subject: Re: Making Z/OS easier - Effectively replacing
W dniu 2011-07-18 23:10, Wayne Driscoll pisze:
In my 20 plus year career I have seen a lot more people with mainframe
backgrounds expressing a willingness to learn and integrate usage of
non-mainframe technology than I have seen people from an open-systems
background show a willingness to learn
: Monday, July 18, 2011 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: Making Z/OS easier - Effectively replacing JCL with Unix like
commands
Hear Hear ... I guess I'm not the only one that feels
this way ...
I will have a 'nasty-gram' later ... so stay tuned :-)
Kind Regards
Jim Thomas
617-233-4130
will be solved when we complete our SAP conversion, so
I need not worry.
From: Jim Thomas j...@thethomasresidence.us
To: IBM-MAIN@bama.ua.edu
Date: 07/18/2011 03:10 PM
Subject:Re: Making Z/OS easier - Effectively replacing JCL with
Unix like commands
Sent by:IBM
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 16:10:06 -0500, Wayne Driscoll wdri...@us.ibm.com wrote:
In my 20 plus year career I have seen a lot more people with mainframe
backgrounds expressing a willingness to learn and integrate usage of
non-mainframe technology than I have seen people from an open-systems
I don't, in general. It is more just a step above assembler. Now, if you
want a true HLL, use APL2!
On Mon, 2011-07-18 at 15:21 -0400, Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.) wrote:
In 4e243efe.2010...@valley.net, on 07/18/2011
at 10:11 AM, Gerhard Postpischil gerh...@valley.net said:
Good for you, but
On Mon, 2011-07-18 at 14:45 -0700, Sam Siegel wrote:
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Wayne Driscoll wdri...@us.ibm.com wrote:
In my 20 plus year career I have seen a lot more people with mainframe
backgrounds expressing a willingness to learn and integrate usage of
non-mainframe technology
All Operating Systems run Programs, use Data Sets or Files, and have
some sort of Command Language.
If Z/OS Users didn't have to be concerned about DCB, SPACE and so on,
then they could write JCL that was very similar to Unix or Linux.
If all that information is stored in a Data Base of Data
z/OS users can also use unix-like shell scripts, REXX scripts, CLIST
scripts...
It's also possible to run such scripts under JCL or submit JCL jobs
from the scripts, etc.
--
Radoslaw Skorupka
Lodz, Poland
W dniu 2011-07-17 15:35, Clement Clarke pisze:
All Operating Systems run Programs, use
If Z/OS Users didn't have to be concerned about DCB, SPACE and so on, then
they could write JCL that was very similar to Unix or Linux.
If you implement properly under SMS, you can reduce the burden significantly.
And, it's probably less complex than a DCB database.
-
Ted MacNEIL
On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 23:35:30 +1000, Clement Clarke wrote:
All Operating Systems run Programs, use Data Sets or Files, and have
some sort of Command Language.
If Z/OS Users didn't have to be concerned about DCB, SPACE and so on,
then they could write JCL that was very similar to Unix or Linux.
JCL consists of about 120 words last I checked (not counting those goofy
conditional statements IBM created recently for those who couldn't comprehend
COND codes), average batch job uses about 20 or 25. Seems a whole lot easier
to me to just learn JCL.
On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 09:00:16 -0700, Cris Hernandez #9 wrote:
JCL consists of about 120 words last I checked (not counting those goofy
conditional statements IBM created recently for those who couldn't comprehend
COND codes), average batch job uses about 20 or 25. ...
It's pretty hard to tell
Paul Gilmartin paulgboul...@aim.com wrote in message
news:3339201005293115.wa.paulgboulderaim@bama.ua.edu...
On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 09:00:16 -0700, Cris Hernandez #9 wrote:
JCL consists of about 120 words last I checked (not counting those goofy
conditional statements IBM created recently for
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