Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen
I think it's relevant that node changes as suggested should involve stand alone nodes only (such as POI). Once they are part of a structure of say a building or a road, water or any area, the nodes should be considered a composition rather then 4 nodes. While the underlying structure is a

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread andrzej zaborowski
On 20 December 2011 21:27, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote: Dear All, LWG would like feedback on a couple of items relating to cleaning tainted data as we all prepare for the data base transition. Draft minutes are here.

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread Ed Avis
I think the test must be the same as for any other data which OSMF does not have permission to use. If a mapper added a node by copying from Google Maps, but then another mapper moved it to a different position using a permitted data source, is it okay to keep that node in the database? -- Ed

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2011/12/21 ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl: I think it's relevant that node changes as suggested should involve stand alone nodes only (such as POI). Once they are part of a structure of say a building or a road, water or any area, the nodes should be

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread Ed Avis
A common way to adjust a node position is to move it halfway between the old one and the new one. For example, if there is already a way on the map traced from GPS but you have a new GPS trace for it which is a bit different, it would be unwise to adjust it to exactly fit your new trace. But you

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread Ed Avis
Richard Weait richard@... writes: We consider that the creation of an object and its id to be a system action  rather than individual creative contribution. However, 'the creation of an object and its id' never occurs by itself. At a minimum, you create an object with id and lat/lon, and that

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread Simon Poole
Please don't confuse the matter by treating tagged and untagged notes the same. If somebody is improving the geometry of a way because he is interpolating from the available information (may that be GPS traces of other ways) then he is doing exactly that, just because he is reusing an

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread Ed Avis
Simon Poole simon@... writes: If somebody is improving the geometry of a way because he is interpolating from the available information (may that be GPS traces of other ways) then he is doing exactly that, That is exactly it: improving the geometry of a way. Not replacing it. If you take an

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread andrzej zaborowski
On 21 December 2011 12:43, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote: andrzej zaborowski balrogg@... writes: - is a mapper declaration of odbl=clean interesting and helpful in reconciling the data base? Definitely, and I think odbl=no would also be useful to mark objects that are known to come from

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread Simon Poole
Am 21.12.2011 13:34, schrieb Ed Avis: Simon Poolesimon@... writes: If somebody is improving the geometry of a way because he is interpolating from the available information (may that be GPS traces of other ways) then he is doing exactly that, That is exactly it: improving the geometry of a

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread Ed Avis
Simon Poole simon@... writes: If you take an existing tainted way and move it they way is still going to go, so what is your point again? Are we not talking about the following situation: - mapper A (who has agreed to the CTs) creates a way - mapper B (who has not agreed) adjusts the

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread Simon Poole
Am 21.12.2011 14:15, schrieb Ed Avis: Simon Poolesimon@... writes: If you take an existing tainted way and move it they way is still going to go, so what is your point again? Are we not talking about the following situation: - mapper A (who has agreed to the CTs) creates a way -

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread Simon Poole
Am 21.12.2011 14:50, schrieb Ed Avis: Simon Poolesimon@... writes: In general we have assumed that for example tracing from aerial imagery and similar sources does not create a derived work in which the creator of the imagery has rights (not that I necessarily agree with that). The

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread mike
Quoting Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com: Simon Poole simon@... writes: - mapper A (who has agreed to the CTs) creates a way - mapper B (who has not agreed) adjusts the way's geometry, creating some new nodes - mapper C (who has agreed) adjusts the position of those nodes In this

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread Ed Avis
Sorry, I appreciate your taking the time to go through the arguments on this but I think I have said all I have to say about node positions. I'll let others decide whether what I wrote makes sense. -- Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com ___ legal-talk

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread Ed Avis
mike@... writes: 2) good faith - are we making a reasonable effort to remove the IP of folks who have not given us permission to continue? I certainly agree with Ed that we should treat ex-contributors no differently to any IP owner ... but feel we are already doing that in this and other

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread mike
Quoting Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com: mike@... writes: 2) good faith - are we making a reasonable effort to remove the IP of folks who have not given us permission to continue? I certainly agree with Ed that we should treat ex-contributors no differently to any IP owner ... but feel we are

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread mike
Quoting Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com: mike@... writes: 2) good faith - are we making a reasonable effort to remove the IP of folks who have not given us permission to continue? I certainly agree with Ed that we should treat ex-contributors no differently to any IP owner ... but feel we are

[OSM-legal-talk] Apologies for misleading munin graphs

2011-12-21 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi, as you probably know I'm running statistics on the raw count of objects processed by the OSMI view and making Munin graphs of them here: http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/munin.html I'm afraid that there has been an error in some of the graphs (example graph with problem shown here