On 19 Jul 2002 07:54:03 +0300 Oleg Goldshmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
My reading is different. Before, no one outside of government could do
anythign with the results of the research, because there were patents
Only the government? What are you talking about? Look at some of the
examples I
Shachar Shemesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
There was, about that time, a ruling of Check Point vs. RadGuard (or
was that the other way around? Being as it is that I was interviewing
for both companies at the time the ruling was made, I tend not to
remember).
I don't recall that case
EL well think of it this way, some company spend 1000$ in testing
EL to find out that ABDCFGHE is the best order to put the letters
EL together then some kid comes and see it. and say oh cool! lets
EL make a free software which does the same.
Very good. So the company can choose or to hide the
From: Oleg Goldshmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I suspect Guy meant a different case. IIRC the CP vs. RG case was
about a CP manager who went to do a very similar job for RG. CP sued
but lost, the court saying that the freedom of occupation law
superceded the non-compete clause the guy had in his CP
: Thursday, July 18, 2002 9:28 AM
To: Ely Levy
Cc: linuxers, inc
Subject: Re: knesset meeting on open source
EL well think of it this way, some company spend 1000$ in testing to
EL find out that ABDCFGHE is the best order to put the letters
EL together then some kid comes and see it. and say oh cool
Oron Peled [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
because the patents were not licensed. Now they can. This is more
freedom, not less, or so it seems.
It's more freedom - for them (to sell the fruits of research).
It's less freedom - for everybody else (to use those results).
My reading is
guy keren [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On 16 Jul 2002, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote:
Whatdo you mean? The funding sources are the same as always. The only
sold to the industry that comes to my mind is private ventures run
by academic staff, but that has always existed.
if you read the salon
Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Wed, 2002-07-17 at 14:55, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote:
This does not contradict my point: whether you are employed by a
company or by a university, your employer owns the IP you
produce.
IANAL but I think this is not true automaticaly but
Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Actually, in some cases these terms do not cover something that is in
the law already 'to remove doubt' but actually cover items that no court
will uphold, especially in the non-competition section, in order to
frighten you from doing something you
On Wed, Jul 17, 2002, Oleg Goldshmidt wrote about Re: where has free software gone?
(was Re: knesset meeting on open source):
rightly so. Just don't be too optimistic. Incidentally, that
particular contract was governed by the laws of the State of New
York...
I really doubt that anyone can
On 17 Jul 2002 14:55:47 +0300 Oleg Goldshmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
doubt that UC Berkeley could have made a DARPA project commercial in
the 80s.
No, they couldn't.
because the patents were not licensed. Now they can. This is more
freedom, not less, or so it seems.
It's more freedom -
On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 05:40:29 +0300 (EET DST)
Uri Bruck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Salk developed the vaccine for polio while working for a university. He
worked for a salary. The project was a joint project of several
universities, and obviously had funding. As for giving away the vaccine,
: (+972) (4) 9095-732
Mobile: (053) 864-280
-Original Message-
From: Oron Peled [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 12:30 PM
To: Uri Bruck
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: where has free software gone? (was Re: knesset meeting on
open source)
On Tue, 16 Jul 2002 05
On Tuesday 16 July 2002 13:29, Oron Peled wrote:
..
If these criteria infiltrate the academic system (which is already
happening) who will search in those long-term-and-not-so-promising
directions?
The National Institute of Health (NIH) in the USA, invests prety large amounts
of money for
Oron Peled [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The basic division used to be:
* Academy: does basic research, is funded by public (taxes)
and the results are published and available to the
public.
Also funded by tuition payments, and privately, partly by industry.
On 16 Jul 2002 15:21:58 +0300
Oleg Goldshmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What do you mean? The funding sources are the same as always.
What I mean, is that the private part of funding is gradually
becoming more prominent.
2. More importantly, as academic institutions are striving to make
By the way, look on http://212.143.66.226/index.htm
nice, isn't it?
On Sunday 14 July 2002 12:20, you wrote:
It's taking place right now (12:20, sunday), and it's being broadcast
online live!
try this: http://212.143.66.226/meeting.asp?tid=37
and if it doesn't work, through this:
://members.lycos.co.uk/my2nis/spamwarning.html
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Boris
Gorelik (by way of Boris Gorelik [EMAIL PROTECTED])
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 8:22 AM
To: Linux-IL mailing list
Subject: Re: knesset meeting on open source
Well I guess for nadav cross office is not a good example,
after all it' not FS;)
anyhow it's hard making money from programing you think you find a nice
idea try to sell it and then some kids who are still in school or some
company whic doesn't care about money copy your idea only they put it
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, Ely Levy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
no I don't have anything against GPL only against idea leechers.
Like Linus leeched Linux from the UNIX design?
Like Stallman leeched gcc from ATT labs?
Like Larry Wall leeched Perl from the UNIX utilities?
Like GIMP leeched from
Moshe Zadka wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, Ely Levy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
no I don't have anything against GPL only against idea leechers.
Like Linus leeched Linux from the UNIX design?
Actually, the leeacher was Minix, so Linus falls under HaGonev Mi-
Ganav Patur, and is innocent.
--
On Mon, Jul 15, 2002 at 11:51:24AM +0300, Ely Levy wrote:
so you think going to a program which someone spend hours on
planing and designing,
or as people suggested before months of living off saving and working full
time on it.
and then someone comes after all this efford and say cool
]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Ely Levy
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 10:51 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: where has free software gone? (was Re: knesset
meeting on open source)
so you think going to a program which someone spend hours on
planing and designing,
or as people
Jul 2002, Nadav Har'El wrote:
On Mon, Jul 15, 2002, Ely Levy wrote about Re: knesset meeting on open source:
Well I guess for nadav cross office is not a good example,
after all it' not FS;)
=
To unsubscribe, send mail
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, Ely Levy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
well think of it this way,
some company spend 1000$ in testing to find out that ABDCFGHE is the best
order to put the letters together then some kid comes and see it.
and say oh cool! lets make a free software which does the same.
]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Ely Levy
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 10:51 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: where has free software gone? (was Re: knesset
meeting on open source)
so you think going to a program which someone spend hourson
planing and designing
Moshe Zadka wrote:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, Ely Levy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
no I don't have anything against GPL only against idea leechers.
Like Linus leeched Linux from the UNIX design?
Actually, the leeacher was Minix, so Linus falls under HaGonev Mi-
Ganav Patur, and is innocent.
Gilad Ben-Yossef [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The idea that ideas can be somehow owned is downright stupid,
Hmm... I wonder who came up with that idea, and who currently owns it.
I suspect the list of people and organizations and probably even
countries who became rich thanks to this idea is
but for hard problems the problem is much worse: just by being a sophisticated
user of a non-trivial software project you can deduct major portions of the
solutions being used, and perhaps more importantly, the questions asked in the
original RD process.
That is what the patenting system exists
/my2nis/spamwarning.html
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of guy keren
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 2:17 PM
To: Gilad Ben-Yossef
Cc: Ely Levy; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: where has free software gone? (was Re: knesset
meeting on open
Tzahi Fadida wrote:
Lets see if I understand you correctly. A company created an AIDS cocktail. now,
because it was so expensive for them to create, they want a return in the short term,
i.e.: 3-5 years. Taking your perspective, would also mean that 1 third from the third
world can just
PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 4:17 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: guy keren; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: where has free software gone? (was Re: knesset
meeting on open source)
Tzahi Fadida wrote:
Lets see if I understand you correctly. A company created
an AIDS cocktail
* - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - *
WARNING TO SPAMMERS: see at http://members.lycos.co.uk/my2nis/spamwarning.html
-Original Message-
From: Guy Baruch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 4:09 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; linux-il
Subject: Re: where has free software gone? (was Re: knesset
meeting on open
On Mon, Jul 15, 2002, Tzahi Fadida wrote about RE: where has free software gone? (was
Re: knesset meeting on open source):
...
if we will kill all Jews there would be enough space to build a city.
...
I'm invoking Godwin's Law [1] and declaring this thread (that has long
strayed from talking
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002 12:31:21 +0300 (IDT)
Ely Levy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yea but they should at least get payed for it once,
IMHO there is a diffrence between making your own software in GPL
and between taking a design which someone worked 400 hours on and copy it
in 10 minutes
Have you
Quoth Moshe Zadka:
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, Ely Levy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
so you think going to a program which someone spend hours on
[snips]
lets copy it and make it GPL, and ofcourse it takes him a lot less time
that is prefectly ok thing to do?
Yes. The person who already
FLAME MODE ON:
LOOK YOU BUCH OF BUGGERS - SNIP THE FRIGGING MULTI-LAYER NESTED ANSWERS
ALREADY? WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU AT - PROMOTING LOCQUACITY?
FLAME MODE OFF:
Quoth Tzahi Fadida:
Lets see if I understand you correctly. A company created an AIDS
cocktail. now, because it was so expensive
On Sun, Jul 14, 2002 at 01:17:27PM +0300, Guy Cohen wrote:
Some one want to summaries?
There's an archive of the discussion here:
http://www.knesset.gov.il/committees/heb/online/protocol.asp?tid=37
As for summarizing, I only joined in the middle after hearing about it
on IRC (shame be on the
I don't know how long they would keep it up there, since tid=37 seems like
a low number, and the page begins today.
So I made myself a snapshot, (yes, i stopped copying when they started
discussing education), and it is available from
http://tx.technion.ac.il/~agmon/protocol.html
On Sun, 14
On Sunday 14 July 2002 13:17, Guy Cohen wrote:
hi..
you can look it up at http://whatsup.org.il
the relevant part of the protocol is there..
--
Yehuda Drori
http://whatsup.org.il
your Linux spot on the web in HEBREW
On Sunday 14 July 2002 13:17, Guy Cohen wrote:
Some one want to summaries?
On Sunday 14 July 2002 13:59, Yehuda Drori wrote:
On Sunday 14 July 2002 13:17, Guy Cohen wrote:
direct access to the protocol :
http://whatsup.org.il/article.php?sid=261
tal.
hi..
you can look it up at http://whatsup.org.il
the relevant part of the protocol is there..
--
Yehuda
On Sun, Jul 14, 2002, Muli Ben-Yehuda wrote about Re: knesset meeting on open source:
Today, only the Open Source advocates spoke and next time, the MS
people will speak. That meeting should be very interesting, and I hope
to see many of you commenting online during the discussion. Mindless
On Sun, 14 Jul 2002, Orna Agmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So I made myself a snapshot, (yes, i stopped copying when they started
discussing education), and it is available from
http://tx.technion.ac.il/~agmon/protocol.html
Thanks a lot, Orna!
I have a couple of comments:
1. Anybody else
On Sun, 14 Jul 2002, Nadav Har'El [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snipped lots of good comments
Nadav, you're preaching to the choir. Why not CC Eitan in the future,
and forward him the e-mail you sent?
=
To unsubscribe, send mail to
1. Commercial software costs a lot of money that in 90% of the cases
leaves the country as foreign currency and gives jobs to people abroad and
makes Bill Gates reacher than the State of Israel.
On the other hand open-source software is basically free, and the costs
that *are*
On Sun, Jul 14, 2002, Moshe Zadka wrote about Re: knesset meeting on open source:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2002, Nadav Har'El [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snipped lots of good comments
Nadav, you're preaching to the choir. Why not CC Eitan in the future,
and forward him the e-mail you sent?
Because I
On Sun, Jul 14, 2002 at 03:43:31PM +0300, Hetz Ben Hamo wrote:
One of the most heard things that I have heard from quite a lot of people in
the goverment is very simple - there is no support for Linux in Israel when
it comes to 24/7 support.
I'm a freelance (bunch of us out there), you
They're looking for a big company to stand behind it. Not a person.
If it would have been a person that could sign with them, then I would loved
to sign ;)
Hetz
On Sunday 14 July 2002 15:47, Guy Cohen wrote:
On Sun, Jul 14, 2002 at 03:43:31PM +0300, Hetz Ben Hamo wrote:
One of the most
On Sun, Jul 14, 2002, Hetz Ben Hamo wrote about Re: knesset meeting on open source:
1. Commercial software costs a lot of money that in 90% of the cases
leaves the country as foreign currency and gives jobs to people abroad and
..
Costs a lot to whom?
To the goverment? I'm under a strict
On Sun, Jul 14, 2002, Hetz Ben Hamo wrote about Re: knesset meeting on open source:
They're looking for a big company to stand behind it. Not a person.
I would bet that if the government issued a tender for, say, $500,000,
for Linux support, you'd suddenly find 10 companies or businesspeople
Nadav Har'El wrote:
spent in a different manner. Even if $3 million of that $5 million is
still spent on commercial software, you could do wonders with that extra
$2 million - such as hiring 20 top-notch programmers (for $100,000 a
year)
for writing open-source software for the
Costs a lot to whom?
To the goverment? I'm under a strict NDA due to my formal employement in
the ministry of finance, but I can assure you that the goverment pays WAY
LOWER then any commercial company in Israel. Maybe the army got the same
terms, don't know, but MS software costs are
And what about the guarantees (Arvooyot) money? you'll need to deposit at
least 1 million dollars deposit in the hands of the goverment.
Hetz
On Sunday 14 July 2002 16:13, Nadav Har'El wrote:
On Sun, Jul 14, 2002, Hetz Ben Hamo wrote about Re: knesset meeting on open
source:
They're
On Sun, 14 Jul 2002, Hetz Ben Hamo wrote:
One of the most heard things that I have heard from quite a lot of people
in the goverment is very simple - thereis no support for Linux in Israel
when it comes to 24/7 support.
Are you kidding me? If M.K. Eitan came to you with a job offer
On Sun, 14 Jul 2002, Hetz Ben Hamo wrote:
[sniped]
One of the most heard things that I have heard from quite a lot of people
in the goverment is very simple - there is no support for Linux in Israel
when it comes to 24/7 support.
Are you kidding me? If M.K. Eitan came to you with
On Sun, 2002-07-14 at 18:50, Orna Agmon wrote:
Actually, there is a branch of a government organization which gets
technical support from both Nadav Har'El and Compaq, and prefers Nadav any
day of the week.
Shh! don't tell compaq or they'll request the IGLU server back...
:-))
--
2002 16:13, Nadav Har'El wrote:
On Sun, Jul 14, 2002, Hetz Ben Hamo wrote about Re: knesset meeting on open
source:
They're looking for a big company to stand behind it. Not a person.
I would bet that if the government issued a tender for, say, $500,000,
for Linux support, you'd suddenly find
On Sun, 14 Jul 2002, Nadav Har'El wrote:
On Sun, Jul 14, 2002, Moshe Zadka wrote about Re: knesset meeting on open source:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2002, Nadav Har'El [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snipped lots of good comments
Nadav, you're preaching to the choir. Why not CC Eitan in the future
On Mon, Jul 15, 2002, Barak Kaufman wrote about Re: knesset meeting on open source:
Oz-Tech is a company that is oriented in promoting linux to the small -medium
business sector and supporting it ...
unfortunatley it seems like it wont go anywhere since getting investitions
(even
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, Nadav Har'El wrote:
I wonder, is the days of doing a startup in your garage with a couple of
unemployed friends all gone?
With an investment of, say, 100,000 shekels, you can rent an appartment
for a year, buy a few crappy computers and even employ someone with minimum
I wonder, is the days of doing a startup in your garage with a couple of
unemployed friends all gone?
Unfortunately yes. Unless your friend got some other way to get some money
while your new venture gets some money from investors - then you'll be in
trouble..
We have a very interesting
At 01:32 15/07/2002 +0300, you wrote:
I wonder, is the days of doing a startup in your garage with a couple of
unemployed friends all gone?
Unfortunately yes. Unless your friend got some other way to get some money
while your new venture gets some money from investors - then you'll be in
On Mon, 15 Jul 2002, Hetz Ben Hamo wrote:
I wonder, is the days of doing a startup in your garage with a couple of
unemployed friends all gone?
Unfortunately yes. Unless your friend got some other way to get some money
while your new venture gets some money from investors - then you'll be
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