Re: Many bidi- and Hebrew-related Wine bugs being closed (but not fixed)
2008/12/10 Yedidyah Bar-David [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Also, I don't know about the Technion, but when I worked in tau (and still today, as far as I know), we provided to students access to a Windows terminal server with basically all the software they needed for their studies (in parallel with access to Unix machines which was provided for 20 or so years, also when I was a student). We have access to the central Unix machine, but no Windows equivalent so far as I know. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-ح-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه-و-ي А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-Р-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-Э-Ю-Я а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü
Re: Many bidi- and Hebrew-related Wine bugs being closed (but not fixed)
Dotan Cohen wrote: Does this spell the end of Hebrew support (which has always been terrible) in Wine? No. The fact no one was working on it spelled the end of Hebrew support in Wine. This probably just means that someone got fed up and closed the bugs. Shachar = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Many bidi- and Hebrew-related Wine bugs being closed (but not fixed)
2008/12/9 Shachar Shemesh [EMAIL PROTECTED]: No. The fact no one was working on it spelled the end of Hebrew support in Wine. This probably just means that someone got fed up and closed the bugs. That is a better way of putting it! With the exception of MS Office, I could do without Hebrew support in Wine at all. But MS Office is so important for interoperability that I cannot abandon it. At the moment I am stuck bringing every file to the university to open them. Who could I bribe to have these issues resolved? Wasn't there support of development by a government agency discussed once? What became of that? -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-ح-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه-و-ي А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-Р-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-Э-Ю-Я а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü
Re: Many bidi- and Hebrew-related Wine bugs being closed (but not fixed)
On Tuesday, 9 בDecember 2008, Dotan Cohen wrote: With the exception of MS Office, I could do without Hebrew support in Wine at all. But MS Office is so important for interoperability that I cannot abandon it. At the moment I am stuck bringing every file to the university to open them. Every file? As someone using OpenOffice.org since before 1.x days it looks a bit overestimated. Have you tried OpenOffice.org 3.x? Can you file relevant bugs and attach sample documents? I know I would vote for them. Wasn't there support of development by a government agency discussed once? What became of that? Wine is an important project (IMO). But it is only a bandaid for people who use (or are forced to use) proprietary software. Moreover, even proprietary vendors may write portable software (eliminating the need for wine). The abundance of portable libraries and frameworks not only make it a reality but even a good business choice (e.g: Qt). IMO, government funding is better spent in *solving* the problem instead of providing temporary workaround. In this sense, the partial funding of OOo is infinitely better than helping wine. -- Oron Peled Voice/Fax: +972-4-8228492 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.actcom.co.il/~oron __ / / (_)__ __ __ / /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / . . . t h e c h o i c e o f a //_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ G N U g e n e r a t i o n . . . To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Many bidi- and Hebrew-related Wine bugs being closed (but not fixed)
2008/12/9 Oron Peled [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Every file? As someone using OpenOffice.org since before 1.x days it looks a bit overestimated. I exaggerated. But my professors still send files in Word with complex, unneeded formating that OOo 3 cannot handle. They use Mathtype, too, which even normal Word cannot read. I have asked them time and again for PDFs. Their answer is that the university (Technion) proves MS Windows and Office for free to my faculty. Have you tried OpenOffice.org 3.x? Can you file relevant bugs and attach sample documents? I know I would vote for them. I will start filing incompatibility bugs with OOo. Would you like me to CC you the bug numbers? Wasn't there support of development by a government agency discussed once? What became of that? Wine is an important project (IMO). But it is only a bandaid for people who use (or are forced to use) proprietary software. Moreover, even proprietary vendors may write portable software (eliminating the need for wine). The abundance of portable libraries and frameworks not only make it a reality but even a good business choice (e.g: Qt). IMO, government funding is better spent in *solving* the problem instead of providing temporary workaround. In this sense, the partial funding of OOo is infinitely better than helping wine. So long as MSO is so prevailent, Wine is a necessary evil. But I do agree that government intervention is not the answer. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-ح-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه-و-ي А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-Р-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-Э-Ю-Я а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü
Many bidi- and Hebrew-related Wine bugs being closed (but not fixed)
In the past few days many bidi- and Hebrew-related bugs are being closed as Abandoned, Wontfix, or other non-resolved closures. Presumably this is because nobody is triaging or fixing them. Does this spell the end of Hebrew support (which has always been terrible) in Wine? -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-ح-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه-و-ي А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-Р-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-Э-Ю-Я а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü
Re: Many bidi- and Hebrew-related Wine bugs being closed (but not fixed)
On Tuesday, 9 בDecember 2008, Dotan Cohen wrote: But my professors still send files in Word with ... They use Mathtype, too, which even normal Word cannot read. ... the university (Technion) Hmmm... Professors in the Technion who use Word for *math* Next, D.Knuth would send MS-Word articles to the journal of ACM ;-) Interesting times indeed... I will start filing incompatibility bugs with OOo. Would you like me to CC you the bug numbers? Sure. Another (somewhat weird) idea. Maybe we can set a hebrew-bugzappers mailing list and forward all the various *Hebrew Related* bugs (OOo, Firefox, distros, etc.) This (or an equivalent RSS feed) would serve as a focus zone for anyone who want to help push these subjects forward. -- Oron Peled Voice/Fax: +972-4-8228492 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.actcom.co.il/~oron The use of Windoze cripples the mind; its use should, therefore, be regarded as a criminal offence. (With apologies to Edsger W. Dijkstra) To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Many bidi- and Hebrew-related Wine bugs being closed (but not fixed)
2008/12/9 Oron Peled [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Tuesday, 9 בDecember 2008, Dotan Cohen wrote: But my professors still send files in Word with ... They use Mathtype, too, which even normal Word cannot read. ... the university (Technion) Hmmm... Professors in the Technion who use Word for *math* Next, D.Knuth would send MS-Word articles to the journal of ACM ;-) Interesting times indeed... Do you find this odd? Shall I send to you some documents? I study Mechanical Engineering at the Technion, if you have different experiences with the ME faculty I'd like to hear about it. I will start filing incompatibility bugs with OOo. Would you like me to CC you the bug numbers? Sure. Will do. Another (somewhat weird) idea. Maybe we can set a hebrew-bugzappers mailing list and forward all the various *Hebrew Related* bugs (OOo, Firefox, distros, etc.) This (or an equivalent RSS feed) would serve as a focus zone for anyone who want to help push these subjects forward. I would be willing to host the mailing list at dotancohen.com if need be. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-ح-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه-و-ي А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-Р-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-Э-Ю-Я а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü
Re: Many bidi- and Hebrew-related Wine bugs being closed (but not fixed)
Oron Peled wrote: Another (somewhat weird) idea. Maybe we can set a hebrew-bugzappers mailing list and forward all the various *Hebrew Related* bugs (OOo, Firefox, distros, etc.) This (or an equivalent RSS feed) would serve as a focus zone for anyone who want to help push these subjects forward. http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/heb-bugzap You have just been appointed list operator. Enjoy. Shachar = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Many bidi- and Hebrew-related Wine bugs being closed (but not fixed)
On Tuesday, 9 בDecember 2008, Shachar Shemesh wrote: http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/heb-bugzap You have just been appointed list operator. Enjoy. The speed of light really is too slow nowdays. Thanks. Now everybody who files a *Hebrew* related bug is kindly asked to CC this list. Let's see how it develops... Cheers, -- Oron Peled Voice/Fax: +972-4-8228492 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.actcom.co.il/~oron __ / / (_)__ __ __ / /__/ / _ \/ // /\ \/ / . . . t h e c h o i c e o f a //_/_//_/\_,_/ /_/\_\ G N U g e n e r a t i o n . . . To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Many bidi- and Hebrew-related Wine bugs being closed (but not fixed)
2008/12/9 Oron Peled [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Tuesday, 9 בDecember 2008, Shachar Shemesh wrote: http://hamakor.org.il/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/heb-bugzap You have just been appointed list operator. Enjoy. The speed of light really is too slow nowdays. Thanks. Now everybody who files a *Hebrew* related bug is kindly asked to CC this list. Let's see how it develops... Will do. I'll make a list of current Hebrew related bugs as well. Important question: how many Hebrew _developers_ are on the list? I am not a developer. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-ح-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه-و-ي А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-Р-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-Э-Ю-Я а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü
Re: Many bidi- and Hebrew-related Wine bugs being closed (but not fixed)
2008/12/9 Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I'm a developer. I didn't do a lot of Bidi/Right-to-left/i18n/Hebrew development, but I suppose I can learn. I was hoping that you would pop up. Did you sign up for the heb-bugzap list? If so then two of the four names that are most familiar to me in Israeli FOSS software development are there, and that is important. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-ح-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه-و-ي А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-Р-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-Э-Ю-Я а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü
Re: Many bidi- and Hebrew-related Wine bugs being closed (but not fixed)
On Tuesday 09 December 2008, Dotan Cohen wrote: 2008/12/9 Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I'm a developer. I didn't do a lot of Bidi/Right-to-left/i18n/Hebrew development, but I suppose I can learn. I was hoping that you would pop up. Did you sign up for the heb-bugzap list? Yes, I did. From [EMAIL PROTECTED] . If so then two of the four names that are most familiar to me in Israeli FOSS software development are there, and that is important. :-) Regards, Shlomi Fish -- - Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/ Stop Using MSIE - http://www.shlomifish.org/no-ie/ Shlomi, so what are you working on? Working on a new wiki about unit testing fortunes in freecell? -- Ran Eilam = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Many bidi- and Hebrew-related Wine bugs being closed (but not fixed)
2008/12/10 Dotan Cohen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008/12/9 Oron Peled [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Every file? As someone using OpenOffice.org since before 1.x days it looks a bit overestimated. I exaggerated. But my professors still send files in Word with complex, unneeded formating that OOo 3 cannot handle. They use Mathtype, too, which even normal Word cannot read. I have asked them time and again for PDFs. Their answer is that the university (Technion) proves MS Windows and Office for free to my faculty. Have you tried other options like AbiWord and KOffice? I just read somewhere (probably linmagazine or whatsup) that the new version of AbiWord is even better at supporting latest MS formats. Also have you checked crossover office support? I think it's a bit ahead of the plain WINE project and doesn't cost to much (actually was given for free in a sale about a month ago). Also worst case if you must access MSO then another option is to run Windows in a VMWare. Cheers, --Amos = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Many bidi- and Hebrew-related Wine bugs being closed (but not fixed)
Amos Shapira wrote: Also have you checked crossover office support? I think it's a bit ahead of the plain WINE project and doesn't cost to much (actually was given for free in a sale about a month ago). Crossover has no better (and at times, had worse) support for BiDi than vanilla Wine. If BiDi is the problem, Crossover is not the solution. Shachar = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Many bidi- and Hebrew-related Wine bugs being closed (but not fixed)
On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 09:41:29AM +1100, Amos Shapira wrote: 2008/12/10 Dotan Cohen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008/12/9 Oron Peled [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Every file? As someone using OpenOffice.org since before 1.x days it looks a bit overestimated. I exaggerated. But my professors still send files in Word with complex, unneeded formating that OOo 3 cannot handle. They use Mathtype, too, which even normal Word cannot read. I have asked them time and again for PDFs. Their answer is that the university (Technion) proves MS Windows and Office for free to my faculty. Have you tried other options like AbiWord and KOffice? I just read somewhere (probably linmagazine or whatsup) that the new version of AbiWord is even better at supporting latest MS formats. Also have you checked crossover office support? I think it's a bit ahead of the plain WINE project and doesn't cost to much (actually was given for free in a sale about a month ago). Also worst case if you must access MSO then another option is to run Windows in a VMWare. Also, I don't know about the Technion, but when I worked in tau (and still today, as far as I know), we provided to students access to a Windows terminal server with basically all the software they needed for their studies (in parallel with access to Unix machines which was provided for 20 or so years, also when I was a student). -- Didi = To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word unsubscribe in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Many bidi- and Hebrew-related Wine bugs being closed (but not fixed)
2008/12/10 Amos Shapira [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I exaggerated. But my professors still send files in Word with complex, unneeded formating that OOo 3 cannot handle. They use Mathtype, too, which even normal Word cannot read. I have asked them time and again for PDFs. Their answer is that the university (Technion) proves MS Windows and Office for free to my faculty. Have you tried other options like AbiWord and KOffice? I just read somewhere (probably linmagazine or whatsup) that the new version of AbiWord is even better at supporting latest MS formats. Koffice 1.x makes ruins the formmating completely, but I intend on trying again in 2.x. I have not looked at Abiword in years but I will try it again, thanks for the suggestion. Also have you checked crossover office support? I think it's a bit ahead of the plain WINE project and doesn't cost to much (actually was given for free in a sale about a month ago). Crossover (and Wine in general) do not have satisfactory RTL support. Most of my documents are in Hebrew. Also worst case if you must access MSO then another option is to run Windows in a VMWare. If I wanted to pirate or buy MS Windows, then that would be an option. While I would love to buy MS Office (if it ran on Linux) because I really think that it is a great program, I will not pay for MS Windows as I think that it is terrible software. And I do not pirate. -- Dotan Cohen http://what-is-what.com http://gibberish.co.il א-ב-ג-ד-ה-ו-ז-ח-ט-י-ך-כ-ל-ם-מ-ן-נ-ס-ע-ף-פ-ץ-צ-ק-ר-ש-ת ا-ب-ت-ث-ج-ح-خ-د-ذ-ر-ز-س-ش-ص-ض-ط-ظ-ع-غ-ف-ق-ك-ل-م-ن-ه-و-ي А-Б-В-Г-Д-Е-Ё-Ж-З-И-Й-К-Л-М-Н-О-П-Р-С-Т-У-Ф-Х-Ц-Ч-Ш-Щ-Ъ-Ы-Ь-Э-Ю-Я а-б-в-г-д-е-ё-ж-з-и-й-к-л-м-н-о-п-р-с-т-у-ф-х-ц-ч-ш-щ-ъ-ы-ь-э-ю-я ä-ö-ü-ß-Ä-Ö-Ü
