Re: Remote X11 is slow for typing

[Steve Litt]

On Thu, 8 Sep 2016 22:18:15 -0400
Bruce Momjian  wrote:

> On Sat, Sep  3, 2016 at 10:56:25AM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > It feels like -graphicssystem native has no effect on the rendering
> > of typing, while it does help almost everything else.  
> 
> FYI, I ended up installing LyX 2.1 on my local machine so I don't have
> to do X11 remotely.

Me too. LyX is a big, hairy, GUI program you don't want to squeeze
through an ssh connection. So I sshfs mount the directory or tree
containing the Lyx files, edit them with my local LyX, and all that
goes through the wire is changes to files. Also, I don't have to run
ssh as the dangerous -X or -Y.

If I'm on OpenBSD or some other system that doesn't have the fuse-foo
to do sshfs, I can just rsync the files to my local hard disk, and
rsync them back. 

SteveT

Steve Litt 
September 2016 featured book: Twenty Eight Tales of Troubleshooting
http://www.troubleshooters.com/28

Re: Remote X11 is slow for typing

[Bruce Momjian]

On Sat, Sep  3, 2016 at 10:56:25AM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> It feels like -graphicssystem native has no effect on the rendering of
> typing, while it does help almost everything else.

FYI, I ended up installing LyX 2.1 on my local machine so I don't have
to do X11 remotely.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian  http://momjian.us
  EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com

+ As you are, so once was I. As I am, so you will be. +
+ Ancient Roman grave inscription +

Re: Remote X11 is slow for typing

[Helge Hafting]

Den 03. sep. 2016 16:56, skrev Bruce Momjian:

On Sat, Sep  3, 2016 at 10:48:57AM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:

On Sat, Sep  3, 2016 at 10:39:54AM -0400, Scott Kostyshak wrote:

On Sat, Sep 03, 2016 at 10:26:13AM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:

Are there any tricks to using LyX with remote X11, beyond using
-graphicssystem native?  That helps, but typing is still very slow, i.e. one
character change a second.

Yes see here:
https://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg102675.html

Do any of those tricks work for you?

Well, the thread suggests ssh compression and the use of the
graphicssystem option I was already using.  graphicssystem fixes things
like window scrolling and menus, but it doesn't fix typing speed.

Sorry, I should have reported my version running on Debian Jessie:

LyX 2.1.2 (2014-09-16)
Built on Sep 29 2014, 11:07:17
Configuration
  Host type:x86_64-pc-linux-gnu
  Special build flags:  build=release warnings use-enchant
  C++ Compiler: g++ (4.9.1)
  C++ Compiler LyX flags:
  C++ Compiler flags:   -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 -g -O2 
-fstack-protector-strong -Wformat -Werror=format-security
  Linker flags:
  Linker user flags:-Wl,-z,defs -Wl,--as-needed -Wl,-z,relro
  Qt 4 Frontend:
  Qt 4 version: 4.8.6
  Packaging:posix
  LyX binary dir:   /usr/bin
  LyX files dir:/usr/share/lyx

I think the crux of the problem is described in this email:

https://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg102676.html

Unfourtunately QT (unline Java or GTK+) by default doesn't use X11's
rendering capabilities anymore - instead it rasterizes everything
itself and sends pre-rasterized image data to the X server.
For Lyx this means that when typing, QT always sends images back
instead of just the drawing commands.

There used to be options to revert back to using X11 drawing commands,
however I am not up to date in this matter.

It feels like -graphicssystem native has no effect on the rendering of
typing, while it does help almost everything else.


I don't see serious slowdowns. I have done two tests:
1. One ssh hop
ssh -CY from work to home. (Using wifi at work. I have a fiber to my 
home, but this should be worse than LAN speed anyway.) This machine runs 
debian, and has LyX 2.1.2 and qt 4.8.6. I can type faster than 
rendering, but only if I type gibberish. If I type actual words, I 
cannot out-type LyX. After a while, I managed to get a whole line ahead 
with gibberish though: lkjsdahf sdlf jkshdalkjf skjladfjh saldf h


2. Two ssh hops
From that machine, I shh -CY again into another machine at home. This 
one has LyX 2.2.1 and qt5.7
Now I  have two ssh hops with encryption+decryption+re-encryption and 
the added speed drop of going over wifi at the other end too. Still, 
this feels faster. Not as fast as local LyX, but it is snappy. If I type 
gibberish as fast as I can, I can maybe get a word or two ahead of LyX, 
nothing more. With real words, I hardly feel that the connection is 
remote. So perhaps qt 5.7 is a bit better than 4.8.6?


In both tests, I copied a few pages from the user guide, and typed into 
the middle of a large paragraph. I used no special parameters to LyX.The 
window size was perhaps 40% of my screen width.


If I maximize the LyX window, things gets worse for lyx 2.1.2+qt4.8.6. 
Painfully slow - so don't maximize, but use a small window. LyX 2.2.1 
with qt 5.7 is still snappy though, I fail to type "too fast"


Helge Hafting

Helge Hafting

Re: Remote X11 is slow for typing

[Neal Becker]

Scott Kostyshak wrote:

> On Sat, Sep 03, 2016 at 10:48:57AM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
>> On Sat, Sep  3, 2016 at 10:39:54AM -0400, Scott Kostyshak wrote:
>> > On Sat, Sep 03, 2016 at 10:26:13AM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
>> > > Are there any tricks to using LyX with remote X11, beyond using
>> > > -graphicssystem native?  That helps, but typing is still very slow,
>> > > i.e. one character change a second.
>> > 
>> > Yes see here:
>> > https://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg102675.html
>> > 
>> > Do any of those tricks work for you?
>> 
>> Well, the thread suggests ssh compression and the use of the
>> graphicssystem option I was already using.  graphicssystem fixes things
>> like window scrolling and menus, but it doesn't fix typing speed.
> 
> I'm not sure then.
> 
> We should start a wiki page for SSH + LyX listing ways to improve speed,
> since this question keeps coming up.
> 
> Scott

Perhaps try x2go?

Re: Remote X11 is slow for typing

[Bruce Momjian]

On Sat, Sep  3, 2016 at 10:48:57AM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> On Sat, Sep  3, 2016 at 10:39:54AM -0400, Scott Kostyshak wrote:
> > On Sat, Sep 03, 2016 at 10:26:13AM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > > Are there any tricks to using LyX with remote X11, beyond using
> > > -graphicssystem native?  That helps, but typing is still very slow, i.e. 
> > > one
> > > character change a second.
> > 
> > Yes see here:
> > https://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg102675.html
> > 
> > Do any of those tricks work for you?
> 
> Well, the thread suggests ssh compression and the use of the
> graphicssystem option I was already using.  graphicssystem fixes things
> like window scrolling and menus, but it doesn't fix typing speed.

Sorry, I should have reported my version running on Debian Jessie:

LyX 2.1.2 (2014-09-16)
Built on Sep 29 2014, 11:07:17
Configuration
  Host type:x86_64-pc-linux-gnu
  Special build flags:  build=release warnings use-enchant
  C++ Compiler: g++ (4.9.1)
  C++ Compiler LyX flags:
  C++ Compiler flags:   -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=2 -g -O2 
-fstack-protector-strong -Wformat -Werror=format-security
  Linker flags:
  Linker user flags:-Wl,-z,defs -Wl,--as-needed -Wl,-z,relro
  Qt 4 Frontend:
  Qt 4 version: 4.8.6
  Packaging:posix
  LyX binary dir:   /usr/bin
  LyX files dir:/usr/share/lyx

I think the crux of the problem is described in this email:

https://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg102676.html

Unfourtunately QT (unline Java or GTK+) by default doesn't use X11's
rendering capabilities anymore - instead it rasterizes everything
itself and sends pre-rasterized image data to the X server.
For Lyx this means that when typing, QT always sends images back
instead of just the drawing commands.

There used to be options to revert back to using X11 drawing commands,
however I am not up to date in this matter.

It feels like -graphicssystem native has no effect on the rendering of
typing, while it does help almost everything else.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian  http://momjian.us
  EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com

+ As you are, so once was I. As I am, so you will be. +
+ Ancient Roman grave inscription +

Re: Remote X11 is slow for typing

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Sat, Sep 03, 2016 at 10:48:57AM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> On Sat, Sep  3, 2016 at 10:39:54AM -0400, Scott Kostyshak wrote:
> > On Sat, Sep 03, 2016 at 10:26:13AM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > > Are there any tricks to using LyX with remote X11, beyond using
> > > -graphicssystem native?  That helps, but typing is still very slow, i.e. 
> > > one
> > > character change a second.
> > 
> > Yes see here:
> > https://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg102675.html
> > 
> > Do any of those tricks work for you?
> 
> Well, the thread suggests ssh compression and the use of the
> graphicssystem option I was already using.  graphicssystem fixes things
> like window scrolling and menus, but it doesn't fix typing speed.

I'm not sure then.

We should start a wiki page for SSH + LyX listing ways to improve speed,
since this question keeps coming up.

Scott


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Re: Remote X11 is slow for typing

[Bruce Momjian]

On Sat, Sep  3, 2016 at 10:39:54AM -0400, Scott Kostyshak wrote:
> On Sat, Sep 03, 2016 at 10:26:13AM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > Are there any tricks to using LyX with remote X11, beyond using
> > -graphicssystem native?  That helps, but typing is still very slow, i.e. one
> > character change a second.
> 
> Yes see here:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg102675.html
> 
> Do any of those tricks work for you?

Well, the thread suggests ssh compression and the use of the
graphicssystem option I was already using.  graphicssystem fixes things
like window scrolling and menus, but it doesn't fix typing speed.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian  http://momjian.us
  EnterpriseDB http://enterprisedb.com

+ As you are, so once was I. As I am, so you will be. +
+ Ancient Roman grave inscription +

Re: Remote X11 is slow for typing

[Scott Kostyshak]

On Sat, Sep 03, 2016 at 10:26:13AM -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> Are there any tricks to using LyX with remote X11, beyond using
> -graphicssystem native?  That helps, but typing is still very slow, i.e. one
> character change a second.

Yes see here:
https://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg102675.html

Do any of those tricks work for you?

Scott


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