On Sun, Dec 05, 2010 at 04:03:44PM +1300, Peter Hendricks wrote:
This becomes Campground/RVPark with the default style. Surely, this is
not intended?
In the wiki, there is no tourism=shelter. So, amenity=shelter has been
used to tag some of these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lean-to#Laavu
I see where this is coming from. The problem is that there are other
shelters, like roadside shelters that have nothing to do with buses.
Like this one:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/80909803
It's a lay-by with gas, food, etc. and there is a shelter from sun and
rain. Nothing to do
On the forum "Arie" reports the following issue:
"Using the tag amenity: shelter, shelter_type: public_transport displays a TENT
symbol on the map downloaded in free worldwide Garmin maps.
When you look at it on the openstreetmap.org map it shows a shelter symbol.
Is it possible
Version 1794 was commited by marko on 2011-01-23 15:39:50 + (Sun, 23 Jan
2011)
Map amenity=shelter to a building.
Map tourism=lean_to to what amenity=shelter used to map to.
Add default_name.
Suggested by Peter Hendricks.
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2011/1/31 Marko Mäkelä marko.mak...@iki.fi:
If nobody can suggest a better symbol for amenity=shelter, I would
remove amenity=shelter altogether from the default style. There seems to
be some agreement that amenity=shelter may be too inaccurate tagging for
the tourism or hiking related
Version 1418 was commited by marko on 2009-12-07 07:17:50 + (Mon, 07 Dec
2009)
Bus and rail stops with a lit shelter.
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Version 1804 was commited by marko on 2011-01-28 22:00:34 + (Fri, 28 Jan
2011)
Reduce the resolution of amenity=shelter to 24.
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Version mkgmap-r4261 was committed by gerd on Mon, 07 Jan 2019
don't treat amenity=shelter + shelter_type=public_transport like other shelters
http://www.mkgmap.org.uk/websvn/revision.php?repname=mkgmap=4261
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It's a lay-by with gas, food, etc. and there is a shelter from sun and
rain. Nothing to do with mountains or hiking. Perhaps this needs to be
tagged differently, but in any case, even a mountain shelter shouldn't
show up on the map as a campground. Perhaps 0x6402 building would be
more appropriate
: [mkgmap-dev] amenity=shelter & shelter_type=public_transport
On the forum "Arie" reports the following issue:
"Using the tag amenity: shelter, shelter_type: public_transport displays a TENT
symbol on the map downloaded in free worldwide Garmin maps.
When you look at it on the op
a shelter. This whole story started with the bed icon
(0x2b05), which surely is inappropriate for a rain shelter in an urban
area.
Marko
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Yes, maybe is a different poi for amnity=shelter a better alternative.
Now it has the same poi as campsite. In the generic new and openfietsmaps I use
an icon with a hut and raindrops, like in the osm carto style sheets.
Van: mkgmap-dev namens Gerd Petermann
Hi,
This becomes Campground/RVPark with the default style. Surely, this is
not intended?
Cheers,
Peter.
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On 31/01/2011 21:26, Marko Mäkelä wrote:
Can anyone suggest a more suitable symbol for amenity=shelter? It does
not need to be searchable, and it should not be any more 'visible' than,
say, 0x2f17 (transit service; used by highway=bus_stop).
Apologies if I'm duplicating discussion that's
to do with buses.
Like this one:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/80909803
It's a lay-by with gas, food, etc. and there is a shelter from sun and
rain. Nothing to do with mountains or hiking. Perhaps this needs to be
tagged differently, but in any case, even a mountain shelter shouldn't
Last week, I changed the POI type for amenity=shelter in the default
style from 0x2b05 (bed icon) to 0x6402 (an icon of a building block).
Even though I later changed the resolution to 24, this symbol (along
with grave yard symbols) seems to be visible from much greater distance
than shops
On Oct 13, 2009, at 16:24, Marko Mäkelä wrote:
Some months ago, I submitted a patch to the mkgmap default style that
would do two things: include ref/operator/shelter in bus/rail/tram
stop
names and change the types of minor stops from 0x2f08 to 0x2f17. I
can
understand hesitation
On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 10:32:04AM +0700, Peter Hendricks wrote:
4 posts in the ground with some kind of overhanging roof. People will
seek shelter under the roof from either sun or rain. These are found
all over Thailand on road sides. If it rains you can often even get
your bike
On 19/01/2011 20:16, Marko Mäkelä wrote:
OK, what about this? Replace amenity=shelter with tourism=lean_to in the
default style. Then, no amenity=shelter would show up in the map. If you
can suggest a sensible Garmin symbol code for amenity=shelter, we can
add that as well.
Yes
I agree with Gerd, the examples I've found of
shelter_type=public_transport are next to highway=bus_stop or similar
and are best ignored. It would be better if the stop was tagged with
shelter=yes or covered=yes, then the default style appends * or + to
the ref.
I have no problem with most
Marko Mäkelä (marko.mak...@iki.fi) wrote:
Last week, I changed the POI type for amenity=shelter in the default
style from 0x2b05 (bed icon) to 0x6402 (an icon of a building block).
Even though I later changed the resolution to 24, this symbol (along
with grave yard symbols) seems
is that there are other
shelters, like roadside shelters that have nothing to do with buses.
Like this one:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/80909803
It's a lay-by with gas, food, etc. and there is a shelter from sun
and rain. Nothing to do with mountains or hiking. Perhaps this needs
|def:}(${route_ref})';
}
(public_transport=platform | highway=bus_stop | railway=tram_stop |
railway=halt | railway=station)
lit=yes (shelter=yes | covered=yes)
{
set ref='${ref|def:}*';
}
(public_transport=platform | highway=bus_stop | railway=tram_stop |
railway=halt | railway=station)
lit
Some months ago, I submitted a patch to the mkgmap default style that
would do two things: include ref/operator/shelter in bus/rail/tram stop
names and change the types of minor stops from 0x2f08 to 0x2f17. I can
understand hesitation to change the POI type, but I would really like to
see
On Fri, Jul 17, 2009 at 11:30:12AM +0300, Marko Mäkelä wrote:
There will be a combinatorial explosion if there is no way to write
this kind of rules:
name += ref
name += operator
I thought that it would be nice to translate shelter=yes and shelter=no
as well, by appending
On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 08:56:03AM -0400, Clinton Gladstone wrote:
On Oct 13, 2009, at 16:24, Marko Mäkelä wrote:
Some months ago, I submitted a patch to the mkgmap default style that
would do two things: include ref/operator/shelter in bus/rail/tram
stop
names and change the types
of = perhaps)
does that sound useful?
It would shorten some rules, such as this rule from my patch
for bus/railway/tram stop names:
(highway=bus_stop | railway=tram_stop | railway=halt | railway=station)
(shelter=yes | covered=yes)
{ name '${name|def:} ${ref|def:}+${operator|def:}'; }
If you
Quoting Marko Mäkelä marko.mak...@iki.fi:
The attached patch replaces the + in the names of shelter-equipped
bus/tram/train stops with * when lit=yes. When travelling by foot or
bicycle during dark time of a day, it can be helpful to find the nearest
lit shelter for a break.
Best regards
and
add stuff to it, for highlighting incompletely mapped items, such as
* highway=crossing without crossing=*
* highway=bus_stop without shelter=yes/no
* highway=bus_stop,shelter=yes without lit=yes/no
Best regards,
Marko
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to civilization without
scaring too many people. And all he gets is another hiking shelter. :-)
I certainly wouldn't want to upset the hairdressers ...
I have not used the 0x2f14 so far, because its Garmin Finnish
translation says 'social welfare office'. I can imagine that shelters
could be used
this, but sometimes the "name" command is used earlier as well
Ticker
On Tue, 2020-11-10 at 15:19 +0100, 7770 wrote:
> Hi.
>
> Thanks all for the ideas, it works well to add information.
> The one thing i was not able to complete was to delete the name.
>
> First i
,shelter=yes points with 1m*3m polygons.)
Marko
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Hi again,
On 16/01/2011 02:54, Marko Mäkelä wrote:
What is the typical usage scenario of the shelter? Is it for protecting
4 posts in the ground with some kind of overhanging roof. People will
seek shelter under the roof from either sun or rain. These are found all
over Thailand on road sides
On Jul 2, 2011, at 9:54, Peter Hendricks wrote:
This discussion has nothing to do with polygons. I don't know what any
of these codes are used for, nor do the users of the maps care.
You know, if you are unsatisfied with the default POI mapping, you are free to
define your own.
This is what
=station)
(ref=* | route_ref=*) {
set ref='${ref|def:}(${route_ref})';
}
(public_transport=platform | highway=bus_stop | railway=tram_stop |
railway=halt | railway=station)
lit=yes (shelter=yes | covered=yes)
{
set ref='${ref|def:}*';
}
(public_transport=platform | highway=bus_stop
line) remove the opreator
part, but i can't get it working wery well.
The rule i try looks like this:
amenity=shelter & shelter_type=basic_hut & (access!=private & access!=no)
{set name='${name|subst:"${operator} =>"}'} [0x3913 resolution 20]
Say the name is TheWildernessHut
If
of 'shelter'
could be added, if there is no name, but I think if it didn't show at
all that would be just fine.
I agree that either treatment would be fine for amenity=shelter. Do you
happen to know the code of the building symbol?
What about just Services? That would work a little better
the name
empty or removed.
Example:
Say we have a lean-to shelter somewhere in Sweden.
The name is set as: "Vindskydd rastaplatsen".
For any foreigner, this may not say a lot.
Whereas in the TYP file it is defined with the description:
..
String=Lean to shelter
String6=0x07,Vindskydd
St
for landmark buildings
(skyscrapers), because the shelters would show up much earlier than more
many shops, for example. Having shelters show up at 500m (or .5mi) zoom
level would pollute the map display in cities.
Nothing else than amenity=shelter is using the 0x2b06 POI code. Most of
the 0x2bxx
the shelters would show up much earlier than more
many shops, for example. Having shelters show up at 500m (or .5mi) zoom
level would pollute the map display in cities.
Nothing else than amenity=shelter is using the 0x2b06 POI code. Most of
the 0x2bxx code space is used for accommodation (0x2b04
On Thu, Nov 26, 2009 at 11:05:01AM +, char...@cferrero.net wrote:
Quoting Marko Mäkelä marko.mak...@iki.fi:
The attached patch replaces the + in the names of shelter-equipped
bus/tram/train stops with * when lit=yes. When travelling by foot or
bicycle during dark time of a day
=halt | railway=station)
lit=yes (shelter=yes | covered=yes)
{
set ref='${ref|def:}*';
}
-(highway=bus_stop | railway=tram_stop | railway=halt | railway=station)
+( public_transport=platform (bus=yes | tram=yes) ) | (highway=bus_stop | railway=tram_stop | railway=halt | railway=station
On Wed, Feb 02, 2011 at 01:26:11PM +, SomeoneElse wrote:
I have not used the 0x2f14 so far, because its Garmin Finnish
translation says 'social welfare office'.
In English it's Social Service which is about as vague.
I believe that it was translated from that string without making any
|
railway=halt | railway=station)
lit=yes (shelter=yes | covered=yes)
{
set ref='${ref|def:}*';
}
(public_transport=platform | highway=bus_stop | railway=tram_stop |
railway=halt | railway=station)
lit!=yes (shelter=yes | covered=yes)
{
set ref='${ref|def:}+';
}
(public_transport
(after the place of the include line) remove the
> opreator
> part, but i can't get it working wery well.
>
> The rule i try looks like this:
> amenity=shelter & shelter_type=basic_hut & (access!=private &
> access!=no)
> {set name='${name|subst:"${operato
, 2020-11-10 at 15:19 +0100, 7770 wrote:
> > Hi.
> >
> > Thanks all for the ideas, it works well to add information.
> > The one thing i was not able to complete was to delete the name.
> >
> > First i have:
> > tourism=lean_to | (amenity=shelter & shelt
Hi.
Thanks all for the ideas, it works well to add information.
The one thing i was not able to complete was to delete the name.
First i have:
tourism=lean_to | (amenity=shelter & shelter_type=lean_to)
[0x2b05 resolution 24]
and after the include section:
tourism=lean_to | (amenity=she
(shelter=yes | covered=yes)
+{
+ set ref='${ref|def:}*';
+}
+(highway=bus_stop | railway=tram_stop | railway=halt | railway=station)
+ lit!=yes (shelter=yes | covered=yes)
+{
+ set ref='${ref|def:}+';
+}
+(highway=bus_stop | railway=tram_stop | railway=halt | railway=station)
+ (shelter=no | covered
on a point on a Garmin device. Hence leaving
> the name
> empty or removed.
>
> Example:
> Say we have a lean-to shelter somewhere in Sweden.
> The name is set as: "Vindskydd rastaplatsen".
> For any foreigner, this may not say a lot.
> Whereas in the TYP file it
te:
> > Hi.
> >
> > I am looking into a pattern where a name of a map point is given in a
> > local
> > word, which is not easy for foreigners. Instead of showing the name
> > as the
> > name, i would like to move it into the information which becomes
> >
categories:
0:Other,1:Hotel/Motel,2:Bed & Breakfast Inn,3:Campground/RV Park,4:Resort
and finds 5:Other,...
30x adds 5:Campground,7:"Sporting & Instructional"
and doesn't show subtypes 3 or 6
I've resorted to generating 2 points with different subtypes for some.
This is my
On Sat, Jul 02, 2011 at 09:54:30AM +0200, Peter Hendricks wrote:
This discussion has nothing to do with polygons. I don't know what any
of these codes are used for, nor do the users of the maps care. We now
have tents all over the map, in forests and city parks, the same symbol
that is used to
ten has also a picnic_table, but not always.
picnic_site might have more objects (hut, shelter, benches, drinking water,
barbecue, fireplace).
Or picnic_site is just a nice view only, no amenity.
In wet circumstances we are only interested in picnic_table, not in
picnic_site.
leisure=picnic_table is a de fac
{name}'.
> >
> > For a few scenarios, where the operator string is too long to make
> > good sense,
> > i am trying to later (after the place of the include line) remove the
> > opreator
> > part, but i can't get it working wery well.
> >
> > The r
gt; > > so they are affected by the include, by this code:
> > >
> > > operator=* & brand!=* {
> > > name '${operator}: ${ref} ${name}' |
> > > '${operator}: ${name}' |
> > > '${operator}: ${ref}' |
> > > '${operator
15:19 +0100, 7770 wrote:
Hi.
Thanks all for the ideas, it works well to add information.
The one thing i was not able to complete was to delete the name.
First i have:
tourism=lean_to | (amenity=shelter & shelter_type=lean_to)
[0x2b05 resolution 24]
and after the include section:
touri
amenity=pharmacy [0x2e05 resolution 24]
amenity=place_of_worship [0x2c0b resolution 24]
amenity=police [0x3001 resolution 24]
@@ -172,7 +173,7 @@
# amenity=shelter is ambiguous; when possible, consider using other tags:
# tourism=lean_to or tourism=picnic_site
# shelter=yes on
3 resolution 24]
amenity=nightclub [0x2d02 resolution 24]
amenity=nursing_home [0x2f14 resolution 24]
-amenity=parking [0x2f0b resolution 24 default_name 'Parking']
+(amenity=parking | amenity=parking_entrance) & access!=private & access!=no {add name='${access} parking'| 'Parking'} [0
| railway=station)
(ref=* | route_ref=*) {
set ref='${ref|def:}(${route_ref})';
}
-(highway=bus_stop | railway=tram_stop | railway=halt | railway=station)
+(public_transport=platform | highway=bus_stop | railway=tram_stop | railway=halt | railway=station)
lit=yes (shelter=yes | covered=yes
bout multiple name tags?
> >
> > Ticker
> >
> > On Fri, 2020-11-06 at 19:40 +0100, 7770 wrote:
> > > Hi.
> > >
> > > I am looking into a pattern where a name of a map point is given
> > > in a
> > > local
> > > word, which is not ea
Hi all,
On Mon, Dec 07, 2009 at 07:17:50AM +, svn commit wrote:
Version 1418 was commited by marko on 2009-12-07 07:17:50 + (Mon, 07 Dec
2009)
Bus and rail stops with a lit shelter.
This is my first direct commit to the mkgmap source repository.
Steve returned from vacation
Street
ref=H123
shelter=yes
[member in type=route route=bus relations with ref=4 and ref=5]
I think that having the route refs in each stop can be useful in the
default style. In fact, I could include the highway=bus_stop attribute
${route_ref} too, but then sloppy mappers could be happy
our list of POI's I miss:
>
> - leisure=picnic_table
>
> picnic_site most often has also a picnic_table, but not always.
> picnic_site might have more objects (hut, shelter, benches, drinking
> water,
> barbecue, fireplace).
> Or picnic_site is just a nice view only, no ameni
Hi.
An observation, but maybe known to all mappers :-)
I am using self defined TYP symbols for stay over huts or shelters along hiking
trails or in the wilderness.
It could be things like wildernes_hut lean_to shelter:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Atourism%3Dwilderness_hut
https
or shelters along hiking
trails or in the wilderness.
It could be things like wildernes_hut lean_to shelter:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag%3Atourism%3Dwilderness_hut
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shelter_type%3Dlean_to
etc.
For that i use the styles (points) to assign points
Marko Mäkelä wrote:
Hi all,
On Mon, Dec 07, 2009 at 07:17:50AM +, svn commit wrote:
Version 1418 was commited by marko on 2009-12-07 07:17:50 + (Mon, 07 Dec
2009)
Bus and rail stops with a lit shelter.
This is my first direct commit to the mkgmap source repository.
Steve
On 07.12.2009 08:37, Marko Mäkelä wrote:
Hi all,
On Mon, Dec 07, 2009 at 07:17:50AM +, svn commit wrote:
Version 1418 was commited by marko on 2009-12-07 07:17:50 + (Mon, 07 Dec
2009)
Bus and rail stops with a lit shelter.
This is my first direct commit to the mkgmap
Felix Hartmann escribió:
On 07.12.2009 08:37, Marko Mäkelä wrote:
Hi all,
On Mon, Dec 07, 2009 at 07:17:50AM +, svn commit wrote:
Version 1418 was commited by marko on 2009-12-07 07:17:50 + (Mon, 07
Dec 2009)
Bus and rail stops with a lit shelter
| railway=halt | railway=station)
+{ set ref='${ref|def:}(${route_ref})' }
(highway=bus_stop | railway=tram_stop | railway=halt | railway=station)
lit=yes (shelter=yes | covered=yes)
{ name '${name|def:} ${ref|def:}*${operator|def:}'; }
Best regards,
Marko
}' |
'${operator}'
}
The text 1;2;3;4;5,4,4,3,3 can be changed to 1;2;3;4;5 by using the new
not-contained filter as proposed in another thread.
The doubling-up of the route_ref and the shelter indicator (+, - or *) is a
bug. I will address this in a separate thread.
I will leave
}'
}
The text 1;2;3;4;5,4,4,3,3 can be changed to 1;2;3;4;5 by using the new
not-contained filter as proposed in another thread.
The doubling-up of the route_ref and the shelter indicator (+, - or *) is a
bug. I will address this in a separate thread.
I will leave a further question about public transport
eatre [0x2d01 resolution 24]
-amenity=toilets & tourism=information [0x2f0c resolution 24]
+amenity=toilets & highway=rest_area [0x2f0c resolution 24]
highway=rest_area [0x2000 resolution 24 default_name 'Rest Area']
amenity=toilets [0x4e00 resolution 24 default_name 'Toilets' ]
amenity
=restaurant cuisine=thai [0x2a02 resolution 24]
amenity=restaurant cuisine=* [0x2a13 resolution 24]
amenity=restaurant [0x2a00 resolution 24]
amenity=school [0x2c05 resolution 24]
# amenity=shelter is ambiguous; when possible, consider using other tags:
# tourism=lean_to or tourism=picnic_site
highway=bus_stop | railway=tram_stop |
railway=halt | railway=station)
& (ref=* | route_ref=*)
{set ref='${ref|def:}(${route_ref})'}
(public_transport=platform | highway=bus_stop | railway=tram_stop |
railway=halt | railway=station)
& lit=yes & (shelter=yes | covered=yes)
' }
[0x2b04 resolution 20 continue]
building=shelter | tourism=shelter | amenity=shelter
{ name 'shelter ${name} ${operator}' | 'shelter ${name}' | 'shelter
ess no;
+set mkgmap:road-speed=1;
+}
+barrier=gate {
+add mkgmap:bicycle=yes;
+add mkgmap:foot=yes;
+addaccess no;
+set mkgmap:road-speed=0;
+}
+barrier=kissing_gate | barrier=stile | barrier=block {
+add mkgmap:foot=yes;
+addaccess no;
+set mkgmap:road-speed=0;
+}
+
d mkgmap:delivery=no;
add mkgmap:truck=no;
add mkgmap:bus=no;
add mkgmap:taxi=no;
add mkgmap:emergency=no;
set mkgmap:road-speed=0;
}
barrier=bus_trap {
add mkgmap:car=no;
add mkgmap:delivery=no;
add mkgmap:truck=no;
add mkgmap:taxi=no;
}
barrier=gate | barrier=lift_gate |
useful:
the Edge 705 only displays them in the “All Categories” listing together
with the combined contents of all submenus.
The code 0x2f14 (social-service) would seem useful for things like
amenity=prison, amenity=shelter or amenity=vending_machine, but
unfortunately the Finnish translation
urant & cuisine=international [0x2a06 resolution 24]
amenity=restaurant & cuisine=italian [0x2a08 resolution 24]
amenity=restaurant & cuisine=japanese [0x2a02 resolution 24]
@@ -160,12 +170,15 @@
amenity=restaurant & cuisine=mexican [0x2a09 resolution 24]
amenity=restaurant & cuis
ant (British)
String4=0x03,Restaurant (Brits)
String7=0x15,Restauracja (Angielska)
String8=0x10,Restaurante inglês
@@ -2924,9 +2984,9 @@
type=0x02a
subtype=0x12
;GRMN_TYPE: //
+String=Restaurant (Speciality/Regional)
String1=0x01,Restaurant (Spécialités)
String2=0x02,Restaurant
-String3=0x04,R
nternational [0x2a06 resolution 24]
-amenity=restaurant & cuisine=italian [0x2a08 resolution 24]
-amenity=restaurant & cuisine=japanese [0x2a02 resolution 24]
-amenity=restaurant & cuisine=korean [0x2a02 resolution 24]
-amenity=restaurant & cuisine=mexican [0x2a09 resolution 24]
-
staurant & cuisine=international [0x2a06 resolution 24]
-amenity=restaurant & cuisine=italian [0x2a08 resolution 24]
-amenity=restaurant & cuisine=japanese [0x2a02 resolution 24]
-amenity=restaurant & cuisine=korean [0x2a02 resolution 24]
-amenity=restaurant & cuisine=mexican [
nt & cuisine=japanese [0x2a02 resolution 24]
-amenity=restaurant & cuisine=korean [0x2a02 resolution 24]
-amenity=restaurant & cuisine=mexican [0x2a09 resolution 24]
-amenity=restaurant & cuisine~'.*pizza.*' [0x2a0a resolution 24]
-amenity=restaurant & cuisine=sea_food [0x2a0b reso
taurant & cuisine=chinese [0x2a04 resolution 24]
-amenity=restaurant & cuisine=curry [0x2a02 resolution 24]
-amenity=restaurant & cuisine=deli [0x2a05 resolution 24]
-amenity=restaurant & cuisine=french [0x2a0f resolution 24]
-amenity=restaurant & cuisine=fish_and_chips [0x2a11 re
Hi Gerd,
based on my test, I think the changes of Ticker can be applied - more
testers and opinions greatly appreciated.
Find attached the typ prepared for publishing. The additional objects have
English-based descriptions.
Michael
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: mkgmap-dev Im Auftrag
Hi.
I am working my way through adding swedish translations to as many types as
possible in the mapnik.txt file.
Currently i am done with the polygons.
Aside from adding swedish i observe a few things which may be incorrect named.
Numbered but in no particular order.
The attached file does also
Hi Andrzej.
Thanks for correction, Polish is not my primary language.
0x15 is corrected in attached file.
For 0x25.
There are many different things mapped to 0x25, square and pedestrian areas.
Square is probably "Rynek" in Polish but given the other mappings "Plac"
should be as good. I have
Hi.
I have now made my way through adding Swedish text for polygons and lines.
File attached. The file is based on the example mapnik.txt from mkgmap versions
4587, 4588.
Related to the Polish translation of polygon 0x4f, i have updated it to only
Zarośla, this after comments here and checking
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