Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-30 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 3:15 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Ralf Gommers ralf.gomm...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 7:22 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 1:51 AM, Ralf Gommers

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-16 Thread srean
As one lurker to another, thanks for calling it out. Over-argumentative, and personality centric threads like these have actually led me to distance myself from the numpy community. I do not know how common it is now because I do not follow it closely anymore. It used to be quite common at one

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-06 Thread Ralf Gommers
On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 4:47 AM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.comwrote: Hi, On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 7:39 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: It's not *any* cost, this goes deep and wide, it's one of the basic concepts of numpy that you want to rename. The proposal I last made was to

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-06 Thread matti picus
as a lurker, may I say that this discussion seems to have become non-productive? It seems all agree that docs needs improvement, perhaps a first step would be to suggest doc improvements, and then the need for renaming may become self-evident, or not. aww darn, ruined my lurker status. Matti

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-06 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 1:51 AM, Ralf Gommers ralf.gomm...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 4:47 AM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 7:39 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: It's not *any* cost, this goes deep and wide, it's one of the

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-06 Thread Paul Ivanov
Hi Ralf, Ralf Gommers, on 2013-04-06 10:51, wrote: P.P.S. expect an identical response from me to future proposals that include backwards compatibility breaks of heavily used functions for something that's not a functional enhancement or bug fix. Such proposals are just not OK. but it is a

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-06 Thread Ralf Gommers
On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 8:16 PM, Paul Ivanov pivanov...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Ralf, Ralf Gommers, on 2013-04-06 10:51, wrote: P.P.S. expect an identical response from me to future proposals that include backwards compatibility breaks of heavily used functions for something that's not a

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-06 Thread Ralf Gommers
On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 7:22 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.comwrote: Hi, On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 1:51 AM, Ralf Gommers ralf.gomm...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 4:47 AM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 7:39 PM,

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-06 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Ralf Gommers ralf.gomm...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 7:22 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 1:51 AM, Ralf Gommers ralf.gomm...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 4:47 AM, Matthew

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-05 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 2:20 AM, Sebastian Berg sebast...@sipsolutions.net wrote: Hey On Thu, 2013-04-04 at 14:20 -0700, Matthew Brett wrote: Hi, On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 4:32 AM, Nathaniel Smith n...@pobox.com wrote: snip Maybe we should go through and rename order to something more

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-05 Thread Ralf Gommers
On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 5:13 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.comwrote: Hi, On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 2:20 AM, Sebastian Berg sebast...@sipsolutions.net wrote: Hey On Thu, 2013-04-04 at 14:20 -0700, Matthew Brett wrote: Hi, On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 4:32 AM, Nathaniel Smith

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-05 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Ralf Gommers ralf.gomm...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 5:13 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 2:20 AM, Sebastian Berg sebast...@sipsolutions.net wrote: Hey On Thu, 2013-04-04 at 14:20 -0700,

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-05 Thread Ralf Gommers
On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 9:21 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.comwrote: Hi, On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Ralf Gommers ralf.gomm...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 5:13 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 2:20 AM,

[Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-05 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 12:53 PM, Ralf Gommers ralf.gomm...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 9:21 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Ralf Gommers ralf.gomm...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 5:13 PM, Matthew

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-05 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 12:53 PM, Ralf Gommers ralf.gomm...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 9:21 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Ralf

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-05 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 4:27 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 6:09 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 12:53 PM, Ralf Gommers ralf.gomm...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 9:21 PM, Matthew Brett

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-05 Thread josef . pktd
On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 9:50 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 4:27 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 6:09 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 12:53 PM, Ralf Gommers

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-05 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 7:39 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 9:50 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 4:27 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 6:09 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi,

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-05 Thread josef . pktd
On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 10:47 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 7:39 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 9:50 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 4:27 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-05 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 8:31 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 10:47 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 7:39 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 9:50 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote:

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-04 Thread Chris Barker - NOAA Federal
On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: We all agree that 'order' is used with two different and orthogonal meanings in numpy. well, not entirely orthogonal -- they are the some concept, used in different contexts, so there is some benefit to their having

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-04 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 9:21 AM, Chris Barker - NOAA Federal chris.bar...@noaa.gov wrote: On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: We all agree that 'order' is used

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-04 Thread josef . pktd
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 3:40 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 9:21 AM, Chris Barker - NOAA Federal chris.bar...@noaa.gov wrote: On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 6:13 PM,

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-04 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 12:54 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 3:40 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 9:21 AM, Chris Barker - NOAA Federal

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-04 Thread josef . pktd
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 12:54 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 3:40 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Matthew Brett

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-04 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 1:33 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 12:54 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 3:40 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi,

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-04 Thread Sebastian Berg
On Thu, 2013-04-04 at 12:40 -0700, Matthew Brett wrote: Hi, snip So - to restate in other words - this : np.reshape(a, (3, 4), order='F') could reasonably mean one of two orthogonal things 1) Retrieve data from the array using first-to-last indexing, return any memory layout you

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-04 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 1:53 PM, Sebastian Berg sebast...@sipsolutions.net wrote: On Thu, 2013-04-04 at 12:40 -0700, Matthew Brett wrote: Hi, snip So - to restate in other words - this : np.reshape(a, (3, 4), order='F') could reasonably mean one of two orthogonal things 1) Retrieve

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-04 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 4:32 AM, Nathaniel Smith n...@pobox.com wrote: snip Maybe we should go through and rename order to something more descriptive in each case, so we'd have a.reshape(..., index_order=C) a.copy(memory_order=F) etc.? I'd like to propose this instead:

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-04 Thread Chris Barker - NOAA Federal
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:26 AM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: Before you answer that -- does anyone see a use case for the 'A' and 'K' flags that can't be reasonably easily accomplished with .view() or asarray() or ??? What order does a[a2] use to create the returned 1-D array? ...

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-04 Thread josef . pktd
On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Chris Barker - NOAA Federal chris.bar...@noaa.gov wrote: On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 11:26 AM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: Before you answer that -- does anyone see a use case for the 'A' and 'K' flags that can't be reasonably easily accomplished with .view() or

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-04 Thread josef . pktd
Catching up with numpy 1.6 'No' means: I don't think it makes sense given the current behavior of numpy with respect to functions that are designed to return views (and copy memory only if there is no way to make a view) One objective of functions that create views is *not* to change the

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-03 Thread josef . pktd
On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 7:09 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 5:52 PM, Nathaniel Smith n...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 10:21 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote:

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-03 Thread Chris Barker - NOAA Federal
On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 6:24 AM, Sebastian Berg sebast...@sipsolutions.net wrote: the context where it gets applied. So giving the same strategy two different names is silly; if anything it's the contexts that should have different names. Yup, thats how I think about it too... me too...

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-03 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 5:19 AM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 7:09 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 5:52 PM, Nathaniel Smith n...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 2,

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-03 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 8:52 AM, Chris Barker - NOAA Federal chris.bar...@noaa.gov wrote: On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 6:24 AM, Sebastian Berg sebast...@sipsolutions.net wrote: the context where it gets applied. So giving the same strategy two different names is silly; if anything it's the

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-03 Thread Chris Barker - NOAA Federal
On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: It was not enough for me or the three others who will publicly admit to the shame of finding it confusing without further thought. I would submit that some of the confusion came from the fact that with ravel(), and

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-03 Thread Ralf Gommers
On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 11:52 PM, Chris Barker - NOAA Federal chris.bar...@noaa.gov wrote: On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: It was not enough for me or the three others who will publicly admit to the shame of finding it confusing without further

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-03 Thread josef . pktd
On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 9:13 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 11:44 AM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 8:52 AM, Chris Barker - NOAA Federal chris.bar...@noaa.gov wrote: On Wed, Apr 3, 2013 at 6:24 AM,

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-02 Thread Éric Depagne
Hi all, Since we're mentionning obvious and non-obvious naming, I think you agree that there is potential for confusion, and there doesn't seem any reason to continue with that confusion if we can come up with a clearer name. So here is a compromise proposal. How about: *

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-02 Thread Nathaniel Smith
On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 2:08 AM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, We were teaching today, and found ourselves getting very confused about ravel and shape in numpy. Summary -- There are two separate ideas needed to understand ordering in ravel and reshape:

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-02 Thread Andrew Jaffe
Proposal - * Deprecate the use of C and F meaning backwards and forwards index ordering for ravel, reshape * Prefer Z and N, being graphical representations of unraveling in 2 dimensions, axis1 first and axis0 first respectively (excellent naming idea by Paul Ivanov) What

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-02 Thread Chris Barker - NOAA Federal
On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 10:15 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you for the compliment, it's more enjoyable than other potential explanations of my confusion (sigh). But, I don't think that is the explanation. well, the core explanation is these are difficult and

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-02 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 7:32 AM, Nathaniel Smith n...@pobox.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 2:08 AM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, We were teaching today, and found ourselves getting very confused about ravel and shape in numpy. Summary -- There are

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-02 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 12:29 PM, Chris Barker - NOAA Federal chris.bar...@noaa.gov wrote: On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 10:15 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you for the compliment, it's more enjoyable than other potential explanations of my confusion (sigh). But, I

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-02 Thread josef . pktd
On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 2:04 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 12:29 PM, Chris Barker - NOAA Federal chris.bar...@noaa.gov wrote: On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 10:15 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you for the compliment, it's more

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-02 Thread Nathaniel Smith
On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 6:59 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 7:32 AM, Nathaniel Smith n...@pobox.com wrote: Maybe we should go through and rename order to something more descriptive in each case, so we'd have a.reshape(..., index_order=C)

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-02 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Chris Barker - NOAA Federal chris.bar...@noaa.gov wrote: On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 11:37 AM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: I still don't see why order is not a general concept, whether it refers to memory or indexing/iterating. I agree -- the ordering concept

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-02 Thread Nathaniel Smith
On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 10:21 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: This is like observing that if I say go North then it's ambiguous about whether I want you to drive or walk, and concluding that we need new words for the directions depending on what sort of vehicle you use. So go

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-02 Thread josef . pktd
On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 5:52 PM, Nathaniel Smith n...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 10:21 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: This is like observing that if I say go North then it's ambiguous about whether I want you to drive or walk, and concluding that we need new

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-02 Thread josef . pktd
On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 7:09 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 5:52 PM, Nathaniel Smith n...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 10:21 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: This is like observing that if I say go North then it's ambiguous about whether I

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-02 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 5:52 PM, Nathaniel Smith n...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 10:21 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: This is like observing that if I say go North then it's ambiguous about whether I want you to drive or walk, and concluding that we need

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-02 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 7:09 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 5:52 PM, Nathaniel Smith n...@pobox.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 10:21 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: This is like observing that if I say go North then it's ambiguous about

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-01 Thread Sebastian Berg
On Sun, 2013-03-31 at 14:04 -0700, Matthew Brett wrote: Hi, On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 1:43 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 10:38 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Mar

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-01 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Sebastian Berg sebast...@sipsolutions.net wrote: On Sun, 2013-03-31 at 14:04 -0700, Matthew Brett wrote: Hi, On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 1:43 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote:

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-01 Thread josef . pktd
On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 3:10 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 10:23 AM, Sebastian Berg sebast...@sipsolutions.net wrote: On Sun, 2013-03-31 at 14:04 -0700, Matthew Brett wrote: Hi, On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 1:43 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-04-01 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Chris Barker - NOAA Federal chris.bar...@noaa.gov wrote: HI folks, I've been teaching Python lately, have taught numpy a couple times (formally), and am preparing a leacture about it over the next couple weeks -- so I'm taking an interest here. I've been

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-03-31 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 10:38 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 12:50 AM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 9:37 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 12:04 AM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-03-31 Thread josef . pktd
On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 10:38 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 12:50 AM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 9:37 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote:

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-03-31 Thread Ralf Gommers
On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 10:43 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 10:38 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 12:50 AM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote:

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-03-31 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 1:43 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 3:54 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 10:38 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 12:50 AM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-03-30 Thread josef . pktd
On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 10:08 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, We were teaching today, and found ourselves getting very confused about ravel and shape in numpy. Summary -- There are two separate ideas needed to understand ordering in ravel and reshape:

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-03-30 Thread josef . pktd
On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 7:14 AM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 10:08 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, We were teaching today, and found ourselves getting very confused about ravel and shape in numpy. Summary -- There are two

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-03-30 Thread Sebastian Berg
On Fri, 2013-03-29 at 19:08 -0700, Matthew Brett wrote: Hi, We were teaching today, and found ourselves getting very confused about ravel and shape in numpy. Summary -- There are two separate ideas needed to understand ordering in ravel and reshape: Idea 1): ravel /

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-03-30 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Sebastian Berg sebast...@sipsolutions.net wrote: On Fri, 2013-03-29 at 19:08 -0700, Matthew Brett wrote: Hi, We were teaching today, and found ourselves getting very confused about ravel and shape in numpy. Summary -- There are two

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-03-30 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 4:14 AM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 10:08 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, We were teaching today, and found ourselves getting very confused about ravel and shape in numpy. Summary -- There are two

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-03-30 Thread josef . pktd
On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 4:14 AM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 10:08 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, We were teaching today, and found ourselves getting very

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-03-30 Thread josef . pktd
On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 4:57 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 4:14 AM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 10:08 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote:

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-03-30 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 1:57 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 4:14 AM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 10:08 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote:

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-03-30 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 2:20 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 4:57 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 4:14 AM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 29,

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-03-30 Thread Sebastian Berg
On Sat, 2013-03-30 at 12:45 -0700, Matthew Brett wrote: Hi, On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Sebastian Berg sebast...@sipsolutions.net wrote: On Fri, 2013-03-29 at 19:08 -0700, Matthew Brett wrote: Hi, We were teaching today, and found ourselves getting very confused about ravel

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-03-30 Thread Bradley M. Froehle
On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.comwrote: On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 2:20 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 4:57 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat,

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-03-30 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Bradley M. Froehle brad.froe...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 2:20 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 4:57 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote:

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-03-30 Thread josef . pktd
On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Bradley M. Froehle brad.froe...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 2:20 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 4:57 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-03-30 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 7:50 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Bradley M. Froehle brad.froe...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 2:20 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote:

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-03-30 Thread josef . pktd
On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 8:29 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 7:50 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Bradley M. Froehle brad.froe...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Matthew Brett

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-03-30 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 7:02 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 8:29 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 7:50 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Bradley M. Froehle brad.froe...@gmail.com

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-03-30 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 7:02 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 8:29 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 7:50 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Bradley M. Froehle brad.froe...@gmail.com

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-03-30 Thread josef . pktd
On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 11:43 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 7:02 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 8:29 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 7:50 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote:

Re: [Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-03-30 Thread josef . pktd
On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 12:04 AM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 7:02 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 8:29 PM, Matthew Brett matthew.br...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 7:50 PM, josef.p...@gmail.com wrote:

[Numpy-discussion] Raveling, reshape order keyword unnecessarily confuses index and memory ordering

2013-03-29 Thread Matthew Brett
Hi, We were teaching today, and found ourselves getting very confused about ravel and shape in numpy. Summary -- There are two separate ideas needed to understand ordering in ravel and reshape: Idea 1): ravel / reshape can proceed from the last axis to the first, or the first to