Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Questions about - End the uncertainty -

[Robert Treat]

On Wed, Jul 5, 2017 at 10:05 AM, Guenther Alka  wrote:
> about OmniOS and the silence for weeks
>
> For my own future, I have already decided to switch back to OpenIndiana, the
> community based sister project of OmniOS. But like many users, I have yet
> OmniOS installations running perfectly. For them, it is essential to ask
> about the future for the next months or year and needed next steps (can wait
> some time or switch as soon as possible).
>
>
> @OmniTi
> The end of OmniOS@OmniTi seems final.
>

People see what they want to see. We still have a lot of OmniOS
running at OmniTI, that is not expected to change anytime soon.

> - How long will the website and the repo remain online?
>

Indefinitely.

The majority of repos on github are publicly available, and probably
won't ever be taken down. At some point we will need to reconfigure
our internal processes to move towards a community repo rather than
the one current housed under omniti-labs (Sadly, we never were able to
secure OmniOS as a project from github, even with trademark rights,
but ce la vie) but for now we are posting updates there when we can.

As for the wiki, what we would like to see is the wiki recreated in a
github project; right now it runs on a set of wiki software that is
essentially closed source and we cannot open it, so a scrape/rebuild
of the existing wiki seems to be the best option. I think the software
at https://github.com/HeinrichHartmann/trac2md can go towards making
that happen, but haven't seen anyone take that to completion.

> - Is there an option to fix serious bugs or problems in OmniOS @OmniTi for
> a limited time like 1 year or at least end of the year?
>

We will fix issues for ourselves and our customers as long as needed.
We're happy to look at pull requests as well, but eventually that
effort should move toward a community managed repo.

> - Are you willing to transfer the website/name either to a new OmniOS
> community project (I cannot see this as an option regarding the silence
> about) or to the OpenIndiana community to use it as a name for a possible
> stable like OpenIndiana Hipster=dev and OpenIndiana OmniOS as a stable
> subset? (if OI is willing to go that route but the request or offer must
> come from OmniTi or OmniOS people).
>
> OmniOS has a very strong reputation regarding production quality and
> stability, so such a step would help both if OpenIndiana and OmniOS would
> cooperate in a common project. Seems a pity if the name would die or remain
> as a name for a failed project.

We have stated this publicly before, but happy to say it again. We are
willing to transfer "everything" (omnios.org domain, trademark rights,
etc...) once a suitable group for stewardship emerges.

My personal feeling is that people have gotten caught up in the drama
of this far more than focusing on the work needed to move things
forward. Right now the primary focus of those who want to see OmniOS
move forward is setting up a new development process and identifying
how that will work and who the people with appropriate commit bits
will be. That should be coupled with a conversion of the wiki so that
we have a way to push forward changes / releases. This can all be
accomplished using github as the community provider for
resources/hosting as a first step. After that individual pieces like a
new domain, new websites, moving mailing lists, twitter accounts and
such, can be taken on as individual projects. The big upside here is
that almost all of this process can be (and probably should be) lifted
from the existing OmniOS project, with regard to scope, direction,
versioning, etc... In the meantime, talk of project merges and such is
mostly a distraction IMHO.

>
>
> @OmniOS developers (current or former - you have done a very good job!)
>
> - Is there an option to fix serious bugs or problems in OmniOS for a limited
> time like 1 year or at least end of the year? This would help until a
> sucessor (less likely OmniOS 151024, maybe next OpenIndiana snap with a
> stable subset) is available. LX would then remain an OmniOS option in the
> meantime (I would not dare to ask about an upstream).
>

Personally, I think the successor is going to151024 built out of the
CE repo. A good test would be to see if that can be done in September,
address just the goal of building a new release from community driven
inputs, and solving the few tricky issues that come up with that
(package signing comes to mind).


Robert Treat
https://omniti.com
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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Questions about - End the uncertainty -

[Davide Poletto]

If I recall correctly, I proposed to include that new feature in Caiman on
the "Extending the installer" thread which was started on the list at end
of February 2016.
See here:
http://lists.omniti.com/pipermail/omnios-discuss/2016-February/006446.html
and my 2 cents about that at that time:
http://lists.omniti.com/pipermail/omnios-discuss/2016-February/006455.html

Best regards, Davide.

On Mon, Jul 10, 2017 at 10:37 AM, Alexander Lesle <
gro...@tierarzt-mueller.de> wrote:

> Hello @all,
>
> Is there a option to add the rpool_Customize
> https://omnios.omniti.com/wiki.php/ISOrpoolCustomize
> in the installer too?
>
> On Juli, 07 2017, 20:52  wrote in [1]:
>
> > On Fri, 7 Jul 2017 11:14:25 -0400
> > Dan McDonald  wrote:
>
> >> During the r151024 timeframe, one of the things on my plate was going
> to be a "install postprocessing" menu option on the Kayak menu.  The idea
> would be if you wanted to get things set prior to your next boot, you'd go
> into that.  It seemed appropriate for an interactive installer, while still
> keeping the spirit of REALLY FAST, DAMMIT that Kayak embodied.
> >>
> >> My suggestion, and you can dismiss it of course, it to build the
> postprocessing menu option.  It'd bring up a new screen, full of choices
> like "configure networking", "Set root password", "Add users", etc. etc.
> >>
>
> > This is exactly the same ideas I have;-)
>
> > Add to this that the user should be able to apply a preseed to the
> > installer (Think of Debian) to have all that done automatically -
> > imagine being able to remote install through PXE both Omnios and
> > detailed configuration and installation of extra stuff.
>
>
> --
> Best Regards
> Alexander
> Juli, 10 2017
> 
> [1] mid:20170707205216.2338d...@sleipner.datanom.net
> 
>
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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Questions about - End the uncertainty -

[Alexander Lesle]

Hello @all,

Is there a option to add the rpool_Customize
https://omnios.omniti.com/wiki.php/ISOrpoolCustomize
in the installer too?

On Juli, 07 2017, 20:52  wrote in [1]:

> On Fri, 7 Jul 2017 11:14:25 -0400
> Dan McDonald  wrote:

>> During the r151024 timeframe, one of the things on my plate was going to be 
>> a "install postprocessing" menu option on the Kayak menu.  The idea would be 
>> if you wanted to get things set prior to your next boot, you'd go into that. 
>>  It seemed appropriate for an interactive installer, while still keeping the 
>> spirit of REALLY FAST, DAMMIT that Kayak embodied.
>> 
>> My suggestion, and you can dismiss it of course, it to build the 
>> postprocessing menu option.  It'd bring up a new screen, full of choices 
>> like "configure networking", "Set root password", "Add users", etc. etc.
>> 

> This is exactly the same ideas I have;-)

> Add to this that the user should be able to apply a preseed to the
> installer (Think of Debian) to have all that done automatically -
> imagine being able to remote install through PXE both Omnios and
> detailed configuration and installation of extra stuff.


-- 
Best Regards
Alexander
Juli, 10 2017

[1] mid:20170707205216.2338d...@sleipner.datanom.net


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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Questions about - End the uncertainty -

[Günther Alka]

Only a personal stance

I am from Germany where a re-unification of Germany happened some year ago.
When this happened there were a lot of different interest involved but 
luckily Cancellor Kohl simply declared this as a golden common future 
for East and West Germany and he succeeded.


A lot went wrong afterwards and for some it was indeed not the golden 
future. But in general, Germany is seen now much better than in any 
other history. Mr Kohl dies recently with the honour of the first 
funeral as a European state ceremony.


Illumos is not nearly as relevant like the future of nations involved in 
wars. But the mood of the persons and the needed decisions are similar.


Lets repeat a similar success with OI + OmniOS despite the problems and 
differences.
They are sisters and want basically the same. In the end both will be 
better off. Just do it.



Gea
@napp-it.org

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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Questions about - End the uncertainty -

[Jim Klimov]

On July 7, 2017 5:01:59 PM GMT+02:00, Michael Rasmussen  wrote:
>On Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:31:41 +0200
>Guenther Alka  wrote:
>
>> 
>> Maybe a switch to the OI installer is desirable as it offers a
>network setting option on initial setup.
>> The OmniOS installer is annoying regarding this
>> 
>> 
>I have raised an issue against the kayak installer regarding this and a
>solution as well. See https://github.com/omniosorg/kayak/issues/1

Ironically, IMHO the choice of installers is the least of our problems here :)

I mean, IMHO this only(?) plays a role during distro-construction, so it is a 
matter of one or another tweak in a recipe - of which we can have several for 
different media sets - with same repo (fruit of same shared effort) used for 
os/net (variants?) and for other application packages.

Perhaps in the end we can just improve to common taste and keep one installer. 
But are not bound to do so.

Jim
--
Typos courtesy of K-9 Mail on my Redmi Android
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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Questions about - End the uncertainty -

[Eric Sproul]

On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 2:52 PM, Michael Rasmussen  wrote:
> Add to this that the user should be able to apply a preseed to the
> installer (Think of Debian) to have all that done automatically -
> imagine being able to remote install through PXE both Omnios and
> detailed configuration and installation of extra stuff.

This is already possible via the `Postboot` functionality in Kayak, e.g.:

Postboot '/sbin/ipadm create-addr -T dhcp e1000g0/v4'

Just as with the old Solaris Jumpstart or AI, you can do this in
configs that are specific to a single machine (by MAC address) or
multiple machines (MAC prefix).  You can do pretty much any commands
here, and they get run by the once-at-first-boot service,
svc:/system/initial-boot [1][2]

One caveat is that this runs after the single-user milestone, so
pretty early in the boot, before networking and all filesystems are
available.  If you need to install additional packages, for instance,
you should look into some supplemental method of configuration
management.

Eric

[1] SMF manifest:
https://github.com/omniosorg/illumos-omnios/blob/master/usr/src/cmd/svc/milestone/initial-boot.xml

[2] SMF method script:
https://github.com/omniosorg/illumos-omnios/blob/master/usr/src/cmd/svc/milestone/initial-boot
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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Questions about - End the uncertainty -

[Günther Alka]

Thank you Dan

Does this mean
- the problems around a cooperatione with OmniOS were mainly in the past 
prior OI Hipster?

- A a merge would introduce conflicts.

This would require work to solve or both sides agree to use one or the 
other as base?

Each choice would require work to maintain the current features.

Installer seems irrelevant for me unless it offers what is needed.

Your last comment is the core of the problem.
How to coordinate communities!

Gea
@napp-it.org


Am 07.07.2017 um 20:02 schrieb Dan McDonald:

On Jul 7, 2017, at 11:42 AM, Guenther Alka  wrote:

hello Dan

Thanks for jumping in.
You are the person with the very best insights in OmniOSand Illumos
and propably OI. Can you please comment about the options to cooperate with OI.

Is this doable and wishable from your point of viewand how or do you have
an alternative idea for a positive future of OmniOS ce or free Illumos
based general use servers in general.Are there concerns for a project merge?

I had a unicast chat session with someone about this recently.

it's *POSSIBLE*, but remember the half the reason OmniOS happened in the first 
place was because OI focussed way too much on the desktop and all that 
accompanies it.  (The other half, not keeping up with upstream, was fixed by 
Hipster.)

I don't have the cycles to spell out how an OI/OmniOS merge MIGHT happen.  
There are three big technical problems that come to mind:

1.) Package naming:  There are some subtle differences in IPS package names 
outside of illumos between the two.

2.) Perl & Python:  OmniOS picked dual-mode perl and dual-mode Python (64 and 
32 bit).  Not sure what OI does.

3.) Installer:  I chose to abandon Caiman in no small part because it was far 
more bloated than it needed to be for OmniOS.  I wish I'd done Kayak for ISO 
sooner (or Theo or Eric did).  I believe there is a decent post-processing step 
that can be done for Kayak Interactive that can provide the functionality of 
the old Caiman or OI/slim_install.

Beyond that, there's the headaches of community coordination, etc.

All of this I don't have cycles for, I can say for sure.

Sorry,
Dan



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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Questions about - End the uncertainty -

[Linda Kateley]

On 7/7/17 1:52 PM, Michael Rasmussen wrote:

On Fri, 7 Jul 2017 11:14:25 -0400
Dan McDonald  wrote:


During the r151024 timeframe, one of the things on my plate was going to be a 
"install postprocessing" menu option on the Kayak menu.  The idea would be if 
you wanted to get things set prior to your next boot, you'd go into that.  It seemed 
appropriate for an interactive installer, while still keeping the spirit of REALLY FAST, 
DAMMIT that Kayak embodied.

My suggestion, and you can dismiss it of course, it to build the postprocessing menu option.  It'd bring up a 
new screen, full of choices like "configure networking", "Set root password", "Add 
users", etc. etc.


This is exactly the same ideas I have;-)

Add to this that the user should be able to apply a preseed to the
installer (Think of Debian) to have all that done automatically -
imagine being able to remote install through PXE both Omnios and
detailed configuration and installation of extra stuff.

Yea, I thought that was what AI was?



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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Questions about - End the uncertainty -

[Michael Rasmussen]

On Fri, 7 Jul 2017 11:14:25 -0400
Dan McDonald  wrote:

> During the r151024 timeframe, one of the things on my plate was going to be a 
> "install postprocessing" menu option on the Kayak menu.  The idea would be if 
> you wanted to get things set prior to your next boot, you'd go into that.  It 
> seemed appropriate for an interactive installer, while still keeping the 
> spirit of REALLY FAST, DAMMIT that Kayak embodied.
> 
> My suggestion, and you can dismiss it of course, it to build the 
> postprocessing menu option.  It'd bring up a new screen, full of choices like 
> "configure networking", "Set root password", "Add users", etc. etc.
> 

This is exactly the same ideas I have;-)

Add to this that the user should be able to apply a preseed to the
installer (Think of Debian) to have all that done automatically -
imagine being able to remote install through PXE both Omnios and
detailed configuration and installation of extra stuff.

-- 
Hilsen/Regards
Michael Rasmussen

Get my public GnuPG keys:
michael  rasmussen  cc
http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get=0xD3C9A00E
mir  datanom  net
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mir  miras  org
http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get=0xE3E80917
--
/usr/games/fortune -es says:
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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Questions about - End the uncertainty -

[Dan McDonald]

> On Jul 7, 2017, at 11:42 AM, Guenther Alka  wrote:
> 
> hello Dan
> 
> Thanks for jumping in.
> You are the person with the very best insights in OmniOSand Illumos
> and propably OI. Can you please comment about the options to cooperate with 
> OI.
> 
> Is this doable and wishable from your point of viewand how or do you have
> an alternative idea for a positive future of OmniOS ce or free Illumos
> based general use servers in general.Are there concerns for a project merge?

I had a unicast chat session with someone about this recently.

it's *POSSIBLE*, but remember the half the reason OmniOS happened in the first 
place was because OI focussed way too much on the desktop and all that 
accompanies it.  (The other half, not keeping up with upstream, was fixed by 
Hipster.)

I don't have the cycles to spell out how an OI/OmniOS merge MIGHT happen.  
There are three big technical problems that come to mind:

1.) Package naming:  There are some subtle differences in IPS package names 
outside of illumos between the two.

2.) Perl & Python:  OmniOS picked dual-mode perl and dual-mode Python (64 and 
32 bit).  Not sure what OI does.

3.) Installer:  I chose to abandon Caiman in no small part because it was far 
more bloated than it needed to be for OmniOS.  I wish I'd done Kayak for ISO 
sooner (or Theo or Eric did).  I believe there is a decent post-processing step 
that can be done for Kayak Interactive that can provide the functionality of 
the old Caiman or OI/slim_install.

Beyond that, there's the headaches of community coordination, etc.

All of this I don't have cycles for, I can say for sure.

Sorry,
Dan

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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Questions about - End the uncertainty -

[Guenther Alka]

hello Dan

Thanks for jumping in.
You are the person with the very best insights in OmniOSand Illumos
and propably OI. Can you please comment about the options to cooperate 
with OI.


Is this doable and wishable from your point of viewand how or do you have
an alternative idea for a positive future of OmniOS ce or free Illumos
based general use servers in general.Are there concerns for a project merge?


best regards

Gea
@napp-it.org


Am 07.07.2017 um 17:14 schrieb Dan McDonald:

On Jul 7, 2017, at 11:01 AM, Michael Rasmussen  wrote:


Maybe a switch to the OI installer is desirable as it offers a network setting 
option on initial setup.
The OmniOS installer is annoying regarding this

I switched the OmniOS installer AWAY from Caiman because I wanted to 
disentangle from Python.

During the r151024 timeframe, one of the things on my plate was going to be a 
"install postprocessing" menu option on the Kayak menu.  The idea would be if 
you wanted to get things set prior to your next boot, you'd go into that.  It seemed 
appropriate for an interactive installer, while still keeping the spirit of REALLY FAST, 
DAMMIT that Kayak embodied.

My suggestion, and you can dismiss it of course, it to build the postprocessing menu option.  It'd bring up a 
new screen, full of choices like "configure networking", "Set root password", "Add 
users", etc. etc.

Dan

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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Questions about - End the uncertainty -

[Guenther Alka]

Hello Jim and @all

I am using OmniOS and OI for years and I fully agree with you. Your 
position and that of Aurélian and Tobi are not identical but not too far 
away and may be the base to find a solution for a win-win situation for 
all that suits the needs and wants of all.


In the current lifecycle, no question; we need a continuation of OmniOS 
151022 and OI in their current state as there are many users around. But 
then it seems increditable stupid if the next OmniOS and OpenIndiana are 
based on a whole different base, distribution, infrastructure or 
promotion and this discussion really offers some new oportunities due 
the "revival" on OmniOS-ce side.


I am not involved in either OS distribution so you may correct me on 
wrong statements but as I see:
*OmniOS and OI Hipster Text are nearly identical in core functions and 
stability as this is inherited from Illumos*


OI is quite vanilla Illumos while OmniOS is based on a copy as a freeze 
or subset of Vanilla Illumos with LX as addon?
If this is right, the more valuable part is the OmniOS clone when it 
comes to LX, continuation and stablity.  Using OI current as common base 
would require to create a new stable clone and work to integrate LX, 
much more work to do and we have this aleady done in OmniOS. Adding the 
current OI featureset seems possible on top of Vanilla Ilumos and OmniOS 
Illumos.


*Is this possible or an option?*
*What is the stance of OI to use OmniOS-Illumos as source instead of 
Vanilla Illumos?*


This will give both the current stable base where common work is done 
while OI has the option to add the full set of its current add-ons via a 
repository, not to forget that for me a GUI for local filemanagement and 
storagemanagement is a very valuable add-on for a server. Both are using 
in such a scenario one stable core stable/lts repository every 6 months 
like currently - similar or smaller than the current OmniOS and adds  
extra functionalities by an extended repository that adds an enhanced 
featureset.


The rest is simple
*OI is an established distribution with a small but working team to 
maintain and build a distribution, a known name and website, **a wiki, 
download and repo mirrors etc, a common project should be based upon 
using OpenIndiana as common roof?  The difference may be only in 
OI-Hipster (general use server or desktop) vs OI-OmniOS_ce (minimal 
stable storage server) with two distributions Text (OI-OmniOS_ce and a 
base repo) and GUI (OI Hipster, the same but with GUI and other services 
due an additional enhanced repo)*


No need to duplicate work. Even if both sides are requested to 
compromise, both wins.
All current and new manpower can be used to make the common project 
better or extend it for more use cases.


Maybe a switch to the OI installer is desirable as it offers a network 
setting option on initial setup.

The OmniOS installer is annoying regarding this


comments?



Gea
@napp-it.org





Hello all,

I posted my opinion and advice in the lobby, but just in case the mailing list 
has more visibility so far, would like to repeat or expand a few points here. 
Especially as I tinker with both OpenIndiana and OmniOS based systems so can 
hopefully see how to bridge some gaps and benefit from commonalities.

First of all - kudos and best of luck in your effort. Indeed, keeping existing 
systems afloat and up-to-date is an important priority, and there are quite a 
few interesting and important technical issues to take care of even if the 
workflow and system structure stays as unchanged as possible.

Also, the well-earned perception of OmniOS releases as a dependable, feature-full and unbloated OS, both for use 
"as is" and as a foundation for further value-added products that some teams work on, is also valuable to 
keep and uphold. Unfortunately, as seen from these recent discussions too, this stance sort of robs away most of the 
same values, unjustly, from OpenIndiana (we mean rolling Hipster, not old stale "dev"). Kind of childish 
"we are good, so others must be worse or outright bad" and kind of misinformed "we know little of that, 
so it must be unworthy of attention" or that it is a bloated desktop distro vs. minimal server one.

These two general-purpose distros share more than what they differ in, compared 
to say SmartOS or Delphix or Nexenta who chose to excel in particular 
directions and sort of neglect or forbid others (e.g. installation of random 
software on a filer, making it also a big-data processing machine or a 
standalone home firewall, dev rig, webserver and downloader of stuff). For my 
part, I don't want to keep choosing which of the two distros to base my next 
rig on, given they are almost the same except this tiny bit here or there...

In fact, OI never was 'just a desktop distro' of arguable stability. The "dev" 
version is dead-stable ;) while the current focus of activity, OI Hipster, is very 
comparable to OmniOS Bloody - just a lot more active, with 

Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Questions about - End the uncertainty -

[Peter Tribble]

On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 12:47 AM, Aurélien Larcher <
aurelien.larc...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It is good news, but I would engage you to discuss about reducing the
> fragmentation in the illumos community.
> We have a few distros maintained by 1-3 guys without any or much momentum
> and much duplication of efforts (Debian has 1000+ devs working together and
> we are barely able to have more than 10).
>
> We should join our efforts like, as I suggested, basing on common tools
> and userland.
> I do not see how wasting energy in duplicate efforts will help us
> keep/gain momentum.
>

I don't actually see significant duplication of effort. In the case of OI
and OmniOS, there's not much overlap because the work is in
completely separate areas.

Each community or distro does work that largely falls into 2 categories:
work that's only relevant to that community, or work that, because it's
all open source and published, can easily be picked up by someone else.


> I mentioned earlier the possibility of a virtuous circle with OI as the
> rolling testing and OmniOS the stable: to be honest I see very little sense
> in maintaining two "testing" with such a small manpower. In the long term
> this does not seem sustainable.
>

Attempting to coerce 2 projects together is even worse; each is then
compromised by having to work not only to its own rules and schedule
but has to fit in with the other project too.

You have the relationship between OI and OmniOS inverted, I think.
The only merge I can see making sense is for OI to rebase on
illumos-omnios rather than illumos-gate - in which case OI is a downstream
derivative of OmniOS.

(The situation of OmniOS being the "stable" branch of OI is unlikely to
work. Apart from the philosophical and technical incompatibilities, it's
relatively easy to have an unstable/testing branch of a stable project,
but it's hard to take a rolling testing project and build a stable project
on top of it. Besides, that would require OI to do an awful lot of work
in terms of backporting/release engineering/testing and the like that
isn't directly relevant to them which would then have to be duplicated
downstream as well.)

Generally, if you have mature intelligent people forming communities
they will naturally form reasonably optimal structures. People tend to
make choices that make it easier for them to make progress. (Yes, it's
a local maximum rather than a global one.) Telling people what they
ought to do tends not to be well received; if you want to change the
behaviour of people or the structure then you need to game the system
to give people better options than the one they've currently chosen.

Cheers,

-- 
-Peter Tribble
http://www.petertribble.co.uk/ - http://ptribble.blogspot.com/
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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Questions about - End the uncertainty -

[Tobias Oetiker]

Hi Aurélien, 

- On Jul 7, 2017, at 7:55 AM, Aurélien Larcher  
wrote: 

> On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 7:21 AM, Tobias Oetiker < [ mailto:t...@oetiker.ch |
> t...@oetiker.ch ] > wrote:

>> Hi Aurélien

>> the motivation behind OmniOSce is that we have come to love the the stability
>> and
>> tight focus of OmniOS. Many of us are running large servers that form 
>> critical
>> pieces of our infrastructure. Loosing OmniOS was simply not an option for us.
>> Since OmniTI gave up on this we were forced start doing the work on our own.

> Your answer makes me think I was not clear enough or that we are discussing 
> two
> different things ...
> My point was about collaboration not about losing what you like.

nothing against collaboration, on the contrary ... when looking at omnios now 
(with the focus of it being a server os) 
what do you see that is missing which oi folks could contribute, or which we 
could 
pull from oi ? 

>> we are happy for anyone to join us in our effort, for example also in 
>> providing
>> a more end user focussed repo that goes along with omnios, providing a 
>> desktop
>> environment for those who want to use the os in that capacity.

> If we want another general-purpose distro with 2 maintainers and 10 users 
> that's
> certainly the way to go ;)

we are not general purpose in that sense. 

cheers 
tobi 

>> [ http://www.omniosce.org/ | www.omniosce.org ]
>> [ http://gitter.im/omniosorg/Lobby | gitter.im/omniosorg/Lobby ]

>> Tobias Oetiker

>> On 7 Jul 2017, at 01:47, Aurélien Larcher < [ 
>> mailto:aurelien.larc...@gmail.com
>> | aurelien.larc...@gmail.com ] > wrote:

 Gea,

 the king is dead, long live the king

 [ https://gitter.im/omniosorg/Lobby | https://gitter.im/omniosorg/Lobby ]

 [ http://www.omniosce.org/ | www.omniosce.org ]

 the story continues ...

>>> It is good news, but I would engage you to discuss about reducing the
>>> fragmentation in the illumos community.
>>> We have a few distros maintained by 1-3 guys without any or much momentum 
>>> and
>>> much duplication of efforts (Debian has 1000+ devs working together and we 
>>> are
>>> barely able to have more than 10).

>>> We should join our efforts like, as I suggested, basing on common tools and
>>> userland.
>>> I do not see how wasting energy in duplicate efforts will help us keep/gain
>>> momentum.
>>> I mentioned earlier the possibility of a virtuous circle with OI as the 
>>> rolling
>>> testing and OmniOS the stable: to be honest I see very little sense in
>>> maintaining two "testing" with such a small manpower. In the long term this
>>> does not seem sustainable.

>>> At least some degree of collaboration should be maintained on documentation,
>>> pkg(5) and updates of Python/Perl/GCC with the same source repository.

>>> Of course this is not "right now", as you need to maintain continuity, but 
>>> we
>>> should plan the next 6 month cycle to decide on common requirements and 
>>> make it
>>> happen.
>>> I saw Peter has built illumos-omnios on Tribblix, I think we should do the 
>>> same
>>> on OpenIndiana: the issue is not about doing it once (I did it last year) 
>>> but
>>> having a person commited to maintain it.

>>> Convergence is necessary, at least to some extent, discussion is open. :)

>>> Kind regards

>>> Aurélien

 cheers
 tobi

 - On Jul 5, 2017, at 4:05 PM, Guenther Alka < [ 
 mailto:a...@hfg-gmuend.de |
 a...@hfg-gmuend.de ] > wrote:

> about OmniOS and the silence for weeks

> For my own future, I have already decided to switch back to OpenIndiana, 
> the
> community based sister project of OmniOS. But like many users, I have yet
> OmniOS installations running perfectly. For them, it is essential to ask 
> about
> the future for the next months or year and needed next steps (can wait 
> some
> time or switch as soon as possible).

> @ OmniTi
> The end of OmniOS@OmniTi seems final.

> - How long will the website and the repo remain online?

> - Is there an option to fix serious bugs or problems in OmniOS @OmniTi for
> a limited time like 1 year or at least end of the year?

> - Are you willing to transfer the website/name either to a new OmniOS 
> community
> project (I cannot see this as an option regarding the silence about) or 
> to the
> OpenIndiana community to use it as a name for a possible stable like
> OpenIndiana Hipster=dev and OpenIndiana OmniOS as a stable subset? (if OI 
> is
> willing to go that route but the request or offer must come from OmniTi or
> OmniOS people).

> OmniOS has a very strong reputation regarding production quality and 
> stability,
> so such a step would help both if OpenIndiana and OmniOS would cooperate 
> in a
> common project. Seems a pity if the name would die or remain as a name 
> for a
> failed project.

> @OmniOS developers (current or former - 

Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Questions about - End the uncertainty -

[Aurélien Larcher]

On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 7:21 AM, Tobias Oetiker  wrote:

> Hi Aurélien
>
> the motivation behind OmniOSce is that we have come to love the the
> stability and
> tight focus of OmniOS. Many of us are running large servers that form
> critical pieces of our infrastructure. Loosing OmniOS was simply not an
> option for us. Since OmniTI gave up on this we were forced start doing the
> work on our own.
>

Your answer makes me think I was not clear enough or that we are discussing
two different things ...
My point was about collaboration not about losing what you like.


>
> for now our focus is in building on Dan's excellent work, both in updating
> r022 as well as pulling in new stuff from both upstream illumos and joyents
> lx work.
>

Which is understandable ;)
On the other hand I raised a few questions about collaboration and
perspectives which I thought could be worth discussing beyond the current
state of affairs.


> we are happy for anyone to join us in our effort, for example also in
> providing a more end user focussed repo that goes along with omnios,
> providing a desktop environment for those who want to use the os in that
> capacity.
>

 If we want another general-purpose distro with 2 maintainers and 10 users
that's certainly the way to go ;)


>
> www.omniosce.org
> gitter.im/omniosorg/Lobby
>
> Tobias Oetiker
>
> On 7 Jul 2017, at 01:47, Aurélien Larcher 
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Gea,
>>
>> the king is dead, long live the king
>>
>> https://gitter.im/omniosorg/Lobby
>>
>> www.omniosce.org
>>
>> the story continues ...
>>
>
> It is good news, but I would engage you to discuss about reducing the
> fragmentation in the illumos community.
> We have a few distros maintained by 1-3 guys without any or much momentum
> and much duplication of efforts (Debian has 1000+ devs working together and
> we are barely able to have more than 10).
>
> We should join our efforts like, as I suggested, basing on common tools
> and userland.
> I do not see how wasting energy in duplicate efforts will help us
> keep/gain momentum.
> I mentioned earlier the possibility of a virtuous circle with OI as the
> rolling testing and OmniOS the stable: to be honest I see very little sense
> in maintaining two "testing" with such a small manpower. In the long term
> this does not seem sustainable.
>
> At least some degree of collaboration should be maintained on
> documentation, pkg(5) and updates of Python/Perl/GCC with the same source
> repository.
>
> Of course this is not "right now", as you need to maintain continuity, but
> we should plan the next 6 month cycle to decide on common requirements and
> make it happen.
> I saw Peter has built illumos-omnios on Tribblix, I think we should do the
> same on OpenIndiana: the issue is not about doing it once (I did it last
> year) but having a person commited to maintain it.
>
> Convergence is necessary, at least to some extent, discussion is open. :)
>
> Kind regards
>
> Aurélien
>
>
>>
>> cheers
>> tobi
>>
>> - On Jul 5, 2017, at 4:05 PM, Guenther Alka 
>> wrote:
>>
>> *about OmniOS** and the silence for weeks*
>>
>> For my own future, I have already decided to switch back to OpenIndiana,
>> the community based sister project of OmniOS. But like many users, I have
>> yet OmniOS installations running perfectly. For them, it is essential to
>> ask about the future for the next months or year and needed next steps (can
>> wait some time or switch as soon as possible).
>>
>>
>> *@**OmniTi*
>> The end of OmniOS@OmniTi seems final.
>>
>> - How long will the website and the repo remain online?
>>
>> - Is there an option to fix serious bugs or problems in OmniOS @OmniTi
>> for
>> a limited time like 1 year or at least end of the year?
>>
>> - Are you willing to transfer the website/name either to a new OmniOS
>> community project (I cannot see this as an option regarding the silence
>> about) or to the OpenIndiana community to use it as a name for a possible
>> stable like OpenIndiana Hipster=dev and OpenIndiana OmniOS as a stable
>> subset? (if OI is willing to go that route but the request or offer must
>> come from OmniTi or OmniOS people).
>>
>> OmniOS has a very strong reputation regarding production quality and
>> stability, so such a step would help both if OpenIndiana and OmniOS would
>> cooperate in a common project. Seems a pity if the name would die or
>> remain as a name for a failed project.
>>
>>
>> *@OmniOS developers* (current or former - you have done a very good job!)
>>
>> - Is there an option to fix serious bugs or problems in OmniOS for a
>> limited time like 1 year or at least end of the year? This would help until
>> a sucessor (less likely OmniOS 151024, maybe next OpenIndiana snap with
>> a stable subset) is available. LX would then remain an OmniOS option in
>> the meantime (I would not dare to ask about an upstream).
>>
>>
>>
>> *@all*
>> comments?
>>
>>
>>
>> Gea
>> @napp-it.org
>>
>>
>> 

Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Questions about - End the uncertainty -

[Aurélien Larcher]

Gea,
>
> the king is dead, long live the king
>
> https://gitter.im/omniosorg/Lobby
>
> www.omniosce.org
>
> the story continues ...
>

It is good news, but I would engage you to discuss about reducing the
fragmentation in the illumos community.
We have a few distros maintained by 1-3 guys without any or much momentum
and much duplication of efforts (Debian has 1000+ devs working together and
we are barely able to have more than 10).

We should join our efforts like, as I suggested, basing on common tools and
userland.
I do not see how wasting energy in duplicate efforts will help us keep/gain
momentum.
I mentioned earlier the possibility of a virtuous circle with OI as the
rolling testing and OmniOS the stable: to be honest I see very little sense
in maintaining two "testing" with such a small manpower. In the long term
this does not seem sustainable.

At least some degree of collaboration should be maintained on
documentation, pkg(5) and updates of Python/Perl/GCC with the same source
repository.

Of course this is not "right now", as you need to maintain continuity, but
we should plan the next 6 month cycle to decide on common requirements and
make it happen.
I saw Peter has built illumos-omnios on Tribblix, I think we should do the
same on OpenIndiana: the issue is not about doing it once (I did it last
year) but having a person commited to maintain it.

Convergence is necessary, at least to some extent, discussion is open. :)

Kind regards

Aurélien


>
> cheers
> tobi
>
> - On Jul 5, 2017, at 4:05 PM, Guenther Alka 
> wrote:
>
> *about OmniOS** and the silence for weeks*
>
> For my own future, I have already decided to switch back to OpenIndiana,
> the community based sister project of OmniOS. But like many users, I have
> yet OmniOS installations running perfectly. For them, it is essential to
> ask about the future for the next months or year and needed next steps (can
> wait some time or switch as soon as possible).
>
>
> *@**OmniTi*
> The end of OmniOS@OmniTi seems final.
>
> - How long will the website and the repo remain online?
>
> - Is there an option to fix serious bugs or problems in OmniOS @OmniTi
> for
> a limited time like 1 year or at least end of the year?
>
> - Are you willing to transfer the website/name either to a new OmniOS
> community project (I cannot see this as an option regarding the silence
> about) or to the OpenIndiana community to use it as a name for a possible
> stable like OpenIndiana Hipster=dev and OpenIndiana OmniOS as a stable
> subset? (if OI is willing to go that route but the request or offer must
> come from OmniTi or OmniOS people).
>
> OmniOS has a very strong reputation regarding production quality and
> stability, so such a step would help both if OpenIndiana and OmniOS would
> cooperate in a common project. Seems a pity if the name would die or
> remain as a name for a failed project.
>
>
> *@OmniOS developers* (current or former - you have done a very good job!)
>
> - Is there an option to fix serious bugs or problems in OmniOS for a
> limited time like 1 year or at least end of the year? This would help until
> a sucessor (less likely OmniOS 151024, maybe next OpenIndiana snap with a
> stable subset) is available. LX would then remain an OmniOS option in the
> meantime (I would not dare to ask about an upstream).
>
>
>
> *@all*
> comments?
>
>
>
> Gea
> @napp-it.org
>
>
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> http://lists.omniti.com/mailman/listinfo/omnios-discuss
>
>
> --
> Tobi Oetiker, OETIKER+PARTNER AG, Aarweg 15 CH-4600 Olten, Switzerland
> www.oetiker.ch t...@oetiker.ch +41 62 775 9902 <+41%2062%20775%2099%2002>
>
> ___
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> http://lists.omniti.com/mailman/listinfo/omnios-discuss
>
>


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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Questions about - End the uncertainty -

[Floris van Essen ..:: House of Ancients Amstafs ::..]

Hi All,


Fully agree with Gea!

Kr,

Floris

Van: OmniOS-discuss [mailto:omnios-discuss-boun...@lists.omniti.com] Namens 
Guenther Alka
Verzonden: woensdag 5 juli 2017 16:48
Aan: omnios-discuss <omnios-discuss@lists.omniti.com>
Onderwerp: Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Questions about - End the uncertainty -


hello Tobi and Andy
the first good news for 10 Weeks!

cheers

Gea

Am 05.07.2017 um 16:30 schrieb Tobias Oetiker:
Gea,

the king is dead, long live the king

https://gitter.im/omniosorg/Lobby

www.omniosce.org<http://www.omniosce.org>
the story continues ...

cheers
tobi

- On Jul 5, 2017, at 4:05 PM, Guenther Alka 
<a...@hfg-gmuend.de><mailto:a...@hfg-gmuend.de> wrote:


about OmniOS and the silence for weeks

For my own future, I have already decided to switch back to OpenIndiana, the 
community based sister project of OmniOS. But like many users, I have yet 
OmniOS installations running perfectly. For them, it is essential to ask about 
the future for the next months or year and needed next steps (can wait some 
time or switch as soon as possible).


@OmniTi
The end of OmniOS@OmniTi seems final.

- How long will the website and the repo remain online?

- Is there an option to fix serious bugs or problems in OmniOS @OmniTi for
a limited time like 1 year or at least end of the year?

- Are you willing to transfer the website/name either to a new OmniOS community 
project (I cannot see this as an option regarding the silence about) or to the 
OpenIndiana community to use it as a name for a possible stable like 
OpenIndiana Hipster=dev and OpenIndiana OmniOS as a stable subset? (if OI is 
willing to go that route but the request or offer must come from OmniTi or 
OmniOS people).

OmniOS has a very strong reputation regarding production quality and stability, 
so such a step would help both if OpenIndiana and OmniOS would cooperate in a 
common project. Seems a pity if the name would die or remain as a name for a 
failed project.


@OmniOS developers (current or former - you have done a very good job!)

- Is there an option to fix serious bugs or problems in OmniOS for a limited 
time like 1 year or at least end of the year? This would help until a sucessor 
(less likely OmniOS 151024, maybe next OpenIndiana snap with a stable subset) 
is available. LX would then remain an OmniOS option in the meantime (I would 
not dare to ask about an upstream).



@all
comments?



Gea
@napp-it.org

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American Staffordshire Terriers

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4903 RB
Oosterhout
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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Questions about - End the uncertainty -

[Andries Annema]

Wow, indeed!

I see I have to catch up on reading the latest developments on the 
"lobby" discussion and see when and where I can jump in.


*thumbs up*

Andries


On 2017-07-05 16:48, Guenther Alka wrote:


hello Tobi and Andy
the first good news for 10 Weeks!

cheers

Gea


Am 05.07.2017 um 16:30 schrieb Tobias Oetiker:

Gea,

the king is dead, long live the king

https://gitter.im/omniosorg/Lobby

www.omniosce.org

the story continues ...

cheers
tobi

- On Jul 5, 2017, at 4:05 PM, Guenther Alka  
wrote:


*about OmniOS**and the silence for weeks*

For my own future, I have already decided to switch back to
OpenIndiana, the community based sister project of OmniOS. But
like many users, I have yet OmniOS installations running
perfectly. For them, it is essential to ask about the future for
the next months or year and needed next steps (can wait some time
or switch as soon as possible).


*@**OmniTi*
The end of OmniOS@OmniTi seems final.

- How long will the website and the repo remain online?

- Is there an option to fix serious bugsor problems in OmniOS
@OmniTi for
a limited time like 1 year or at least end of the year?

- Are you willing to transfer the website/name either to a new
OmniOS community project (I cannot see this as an option
regarding the silence about) or to the OpenIndiana community to
use it as a name for a possible stable like OpenIndiana
Hipster=dev and OpenIndiana OmniOS as a stable subset? (if OI is
willing to go that route but the request or offer must come from
OmniTi or OmniOS people).

OmniOS has a very strong reputation regarding production quality
and stability, so such a step would help both if OpenIndiana and
OmniOS would cooperate in a common project. Seems a pity if the
name would die or remain as a name for a failed project.


*@OmniOS developers*(current or former - you have done a very
good job!)

- Is there an option to fix serious bugs or problems in OmniOS
for a limited time like 1 year or at least end of the year? This
would help until a sucessor (less likely OmniOS 151024, maybe
next OpenIndiana snap with a stable subset) is available. LX
would then remain an OmniOS option in the meantime (I would not
dare to ask about an upstream).



*@all*
comments?



Gea
@napp-it.org


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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Questions about - End the uncertainty -

[Guenther Alka]

hello Tobi and Andy
the first good news for 10 Weeks!

cheers

Gea


Am 05.07.2017 um 16:30 schrieb Tobias Oetiker:

Gea,

the king is dead, long live the king

https://gitter.im/omniosorg/Lobby

www.omniosce.org

the story continues ...

cheers
tobi

- On Jul 5, 2017, at 4:05 PM, Guenther Alka  
wrote:


*about OmniOS**and the silence for weeks*

For my own future, I have already decided to switch back to
OpenIndiana, the community based sister project of OmniOS. But
like many users, I have yet OmniOS installations running
perfectly. For them, it is essential to ask about the future for
the next months or year and needed next steps (can wait some time
or switch as soon as possible).


*@**OmniTi*
The end of OmniOS@OmniTi seems final.

- How long will the website and the repo remain online?

- Is there an option to fix serious bugsor problems in OmniOS
@OmniTi for
a limited time like 1 year or at least end of the year?

- Are you willing to transfer the website/name either to a new
OmniOS community project (I cannot see this as an option regarding
the silence about) or to the OpenIndiana community to use it as a
name for a possible stable like OpenIndiana Hipster=dev and
OpenIndiana OmniOS as a stable subset? (if OI is willing to go
that route but the request or offer must come from OmniTi or
OmniOS people).

OmniOS has a very strong reputation regarding production quality
and stability, so such a step would help both if OpenIndiana and
OmniOS would cooperate in a common project. Seems a pity if the
name would die or remain as a name for a failed project.


*@OmniOS developers*(current or former - you have done a very good
job!)

- Is there an option to fix serious bugs or problems in OmniOS for
a limited time like 1 year or at least end of the year? This would
help until a sucessor (less likely OmniOS 151024, maybe next
OpenIndiana snap with a stable subset) is available. LX would then
remain an OmniOS option in the meantime (I would not dare to ask
about an upstream).



*@all*
comments?



Gea
@napp-it.org


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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Questions about - End the uncertainty -

[Tobias Oetiker]

Gea, 

the king is dead, long live the king 

https://gitter.im/omniosorg/Lobby 

www.omniosce.org 

the story continues ... 

cheers 
tobi 

- On Jul 5, 2017, at 4:05 PM, Guenther Alka  wrote: 

> about OmniOS and the silence for weeks

> For my own future, I have already decided to switch back to OpenIndiana, the
> community based sister project of OmniOS. But like many users, I have yet
> OmniOS installations running perfectly. For them, it is essential to ask about
> the future for the next months or year and needed next steps (can wait some
> time or switch as soon as possible).

> @ OmniTi
> The end of OmniOS@OmniTi seems final.

> - How long will the website and the repo remain online?

> - Is there an option to fix serious bugs or problems in OmniOS @OmniTi for
> a limited time like 1 year or at least end of the year?

> - Are you willing to transfer the website/name either to a new OmniOS 
> community
> project (I cannot see this as an option regarding the silence about) or to the
> OpenIndiana community to use it as a name for a possible stable like
> OpenIndiana Hipster=dev and OpenIndiana OmniOS as a stable subset? (if OI is
> willing to go that route but the request or offer must come from OmniTi or
> OmniOS people).

> OmniOS has a very strong reputation regarding production quality and 
> stability,
> so such a step would help both if OpenIndiana and OmniOS would cooperate in a
> common project. Seems a pity if the name would die or remain as a name for a
> failed project.

> @OmniOS developers (current or former - you have done a very good job!)

> - Is there an option to fix serious bugs or problems in OmniOS for a limited
> time like 1 year or at least end of the year? This would help until a sucessor
> (less likely OmniOS 151024 , maybe next OpenIndiana snap with a stable subset)
> is available. LX would then remain an OmniOS option in the meantime (I would
> not dare to ask about an upstream).

> @all
> comments?

> Gea
> @napp-it.org

> ___
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-- 
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www.oetiker.ch t...@oetiker.ch +41 62 775 9902 
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Re: [OmniOS-discuss] Questions about - End the uncertainty -

[Andy Fiddaman]

On Wed, 5 Jul 2017, Guenther Alka wrote:

; - Is there an option to fix serious bugs or problems in OmniOS for a limited
; time like 1 year or at least end of the year? This would help until a sucessor
; (less likely OmniOS 151024, maybe next OpenIndiana snap with a stable subset)
; is available. LX would then remain an OmniOS option in the meantime (I would
; not dare to ask about an upstream).

OmniOSce (community edition) is gaining momentum. I would expect updated
r151022 and bloody repositories to be online in the next few weeks and
an r151024 to follow in due course. It's early days and the release model
hasn't been discussed in detail yet but join in at
https://gitter.im/omniosorg/Lobby

Andy

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