Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
Well thats a loaded question to which I'd say objection your honour leading the witness and goes to state of mind .. Today if i were to reboot the web I'd be ok with a XML flavour like similar to HTML5/MXML (and in parts XAML). I'd also double down on ECMA4 or above (either one) and i'd ignore CSS existence all together as that's just an after thought hack of style properties anyway. --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 10:59 AM, Williams, Thomas twilli...@phcn.vic.gov.au wrote: Hey Scott - I have to admit I'm not particularly imaginative - if you were building the internet from scratch, what do you think would be better than JavaScript? Does this product exist? Thomas *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes *Sent:* Friday, 14 February 2014 11:42 AM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere) David: I think the words your seeking are JavaScript Stockholm Syndrome .. I object strongly to a language who's surrounded by frameworks that are hell bent on abstracting developers from the said language as much as possible because the said language is so far behind the evolution curve. Had JS moved to ECMA4 - ECMA6 ..sure.. i'll play along but this JS ciricle jerk that's going on because everyone's given the defeatist attitude... bleh... And yes, I will concede I see my future with me standing on the roadside way WILL CODE JS FOR CRACK... --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 9:23 AM, David Connors da...@connors.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: better, faster? O.o... did you just say JavaScript is better than WPF? . I said 'someone's 10kb of JS is better. JavaScript is just Internet assembly language. It's the frameworks that matter. I used to hate JS with a passion, but the momentum around it is undeniable and the things people accomplish with frameworks on top of it are staggering. David Connors da...@connors.com | M +61 417 189 363 Download my v-card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors Follow me on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/davidconnors Connect with me on LinkedIn: http://au.linkedin.com/in/davidjohnconnors Peninsula Health - Metropolitan Health Service of the Year 2007 2009
Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 1:38 PM, David Connors da...@connors.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 10:42 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: David: I think the words your seeking are JavaScript Stockholm Syndrome .. I object strongly to a language who's surrounded by frameworks that are hell bent on abstracting developers from the said language as much as possible because the said language is so far behind the evolution curve. Had JS moved to ECMA4 - ECMA6 ..sure.. i'll play along but this JS ciricle jerk that's going on because everyone's given the defeatist attitude... bleh... And yes, I will concede I see my future with me standing on the roadside way WILL CODE JS FOR CRACK... Frameworks like AngularJS aren't designed to abstract developers from the language. I'm sure the creators of AngularJS had every intention on solving variety of issues but I think it's a bi-product of the end result that the very nature of what it represents is an abstraction ontop of abstractions. For all its faults and however badly it started out, JS has been hardened in the market to fit a lot of use cases. In terms of the *outcomes* you can create with it and a modern browser, it is exceeding the capabilities of most other ways of getting apps in the hands of users. Not entirely true. You can get to certain level with BREADTH UX (which to be fair is weak Ux) but to get into a DEPTH engagement there is horror story after horry story of abandonment around why that isn't working or has yet to work. Point and case Facebook went all in and it backfired so they retreated back to Native. Pumping out crappy Wordpress like Admin UI or Twitter.com UI isn't what i would call our best foot forward in Ux.. especially when you see experiences like Flipboard or Paper highlighting just how much we've regressed back to DataGrid/TreeControls in terms of great UX. Like I say to anyone who wants to hear my soap box rants... HTML (Good Ux), Plugins (Great Ux) and Native/Destkop (Ultimate Ux) ... it has to do with the spectrum of depth vs breadth engagement and just because one can sneak in with the bare bones of Ux doesn't qualify it as the best story of the day. There are just far to many use cases where that is not true. It might not be as elegant as C# and WPF, but WPF is obscenely slow, platform bound ... and dead. Well Windows Vista - 7 rendering pipeline has always been slightly retarded and to be fair it really never got much love since Windows Vista but to say WPF is the root cause of that issue is not the point because in truth the dependency on that rendering pipeline would of hamstrung any solution that Microsoft threw up given it was some ass backwards retreat position after they had to pull out of the Windows Longhorn reset. The Windows 8 approach apparently has killed in terms of performance but because the team decided to rename variety of small things in the framework(s) (namespaces, xaml attributes etc) this in turn caused this stalemate between Adopt me or f***k off So if you were to imagine the current new bits in Windows 8 to be brought back down the version pipeline into the Windows 7 way of life, the naughty word that which is WPF could probably self-heal itself... or screw it, call it MetroPF for all I care just give me something to build depth experiences with that works on Windows, Surface and Phones.. and if it means a locked in existence to Microsoft whatever, I do that anyway with Apple so why not add one more to the mix. In all honesty most companies could really give two shits as to who they hitch their ride with when it comes to Ux Platforms because its such a dogma discussion anyway - not just that they just need to direct their workforce onto something to solve some actual needs... (especially my work... we use Lotus Notes still..you have no idea how easily we will unzip for the right solution). No user of your application gives a shit what the source code looks like, so long as it exceeds their expectations and provides values. Thems where the money is. Yeah its Attractive Bias... Ooh pretty, take my wallet but you do your best HTML UX and i'll raise you my DEPTH UX and we'll see who wins that wallet :) David.
Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
*Stares at XAML runtime*... *stares at WPF*... *stares at .NET Developers* ...i figure if all you really did was change the namespaces out and strip away the Windows 8 Start menu shit, you're back to Win7 and WPF crap would work..only devs would be clueless that the rendering pipeline was changed. except for those few devs who sit there and giggle themselves to sleep at the inner workings of what happens and what's different. --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 3:15 PM, David Connors da...@connors.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: I'm hoping he's behind the WPF reboot rumours i'm hearing more and more of. WPF Reboot? I for one can't wait for 2 gigabyte of RAM footprint calculator applications and my GPU shitting itself trying to draw a green square at 3fps. Rich applications are dead. Long live rich applications! http://www.unrealengine.com/html5/ David.
Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 6:53 PM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: *Stares at XAML runtime*... *stares at WPF*... *stares at .NET Developers* ...i figure if all you really did was change the namespaces out and strip away the Windows 8 Start menu shit, you're back to Win7 and WPF crap would work..only devs would be clueless that the rendering pipeline was changed. except for those few devs who sit there and giggle themselves to sleep at the inner workings of what happens and what's different. If by 'crap would work' I agree ... *crap* would work, then I agree. The web has won. Any rich app runtime is dead to me moving forward. As someone rightly said to me, MS spent the better part of a decade with all this data binding stuff in WPF - then someone writes 10kb of javascript that does the same thing better/faster. I mean, unrealengine in a browser with no plugins. David Connors da...@connors.com | M +61 417 189 363 Download my v-card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors Follow me on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/davidconnors Connect with me on LinkedIn: http://au.linkedin.com/in/davidjohnconnors
Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
better, faster? O.o... did you just say JavaScript is better than WPF? . --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 8:02 AM, David Connors da...@connors.com wrote: On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 6:53 PM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: *Stares at XAML runtime*... *stares at WPF*... *stares at .NET Developers* ...i figure if all you really did was change the namespaces out and strip away the Windows 8 Start menu shit, you're back to Win7 and WPF crap would work..only devs would be clueless that the rendering pipeline was changed. except for those few devs who sit there and giggle themselves to sleep at the inner workings of what happens and what's different. If by 'crap would work' I agree ... *crap* would work, then I agree. The web has won. Any rich app runtime is dead to me moving forward. As someone rightly said to me, MS spent the better part of a decade with all this data binding stuff in WPF - then someone writes 10kb of javascript that does the same thing better/faster. I mean, unrealengine in a browser with no plugins. David Connors da...@connors.com | M +61 417 189 363 Download my v-card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors Follow me on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/davidconnors Connect with me on LinkedIn: http://au.linkedin.com/in/davidjohnconnors
Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
Does it even matter when for browser apps one of them is DOA? On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 9:42 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: better, faster? O.o... did you just say JavaScript is better than WPF? . --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 8:02 AM, David Connors da...@connors.com wrote: On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 6:53 PM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: *Stares at XAML runtime*... *stares at WPF*... *stares at .NET Developers* ...i figure if all you really did was change the namespaces out and strip away the Windows 8 Start menu shit, you're back to Win7 and WPF crap would work..only devs would be clueless that the rendering pipeline was changed. except for those few devs who sit there and giggle themselves to sleep at the inner workings of what happens and what's different. If by 'crap would work' I agree ... *crap* would work, then I agree. The web has won. Any rich app runtime is dead to me moving forward. As someone rightly said to me, MS spent the better part of a decade with all this data binding stuff in WPF - then someone writes 10kb of javascript that does the same thing better/faster. I mean, unrealengine in a browser with no plugins. David Connors da...@connors.com | M +61 417 189 363 Download my v-card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors Follow me on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/davidconnors Connect with me on LinkedIn: http://au.linkedin.com/in/davidjohnconnors
Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
either all - does it matter either way? In closing - JavaScript is the digital age’s version of herpes, every time you think its gone a new outbreak occurs – DHTML, AJAX, “HTML5″ --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 8:49 AM, Craig van Nieuwkerk crai...@gmail.comwrote: Does it even matter when for browser apps one of them is DOA? On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 9:42 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: better, faster? O.o... did you just say JavaScript is better than WPF? . --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 8:02 AM, David Connors da...@connors.com wrote: On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 6:53 PM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: *Stares at XAML runtime*... *stares at WPF*... *stares at .NET Developers* ...i figure if all you really did was change the namespaces out and strip away the Windows 8 Start menu shit, you're back to Win7 and WPF crap would work..only devs would be clueless that the rendering pipeline was changed. except for those few devs who sit there and giggle themselves to sleep at the inner workings of what happens and what's different. If by 'crap would work' I agree ... *crap* would work, then I agree. The web has won. Any rich app runtime is dead to me moving forward. As someone rightly said to me, MS spent the better part of a decade with all this data binding stuff in WPF - then someone writes 10kb of javascript that does the same thing better/faster. I mean, unrealengine in a browser with no plugins. David Connors da...@connors.com | M +61 417 189 363 Download my v-card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors Follow me on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/davidconnors Connect with me on LinkedIn: http://au.linkedin.com/in/davidjohnconnors
Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: better, faster? O.o... did you just say JavaScript is better than WPF? . I said 'someone's 10kb of JS is better. JavaScript is just Internet assembly language. It's the frameworks that matter. I used to hate JS with a passion, but the momentum around it is undeniable and the things people accomplish with frameworks on top of it are staggering. David Connors da...@connors.com | M +61 417 189 363 Download my v-card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors Follow me on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/davidconnors Connect with me on LinkedIn: http://au.linkedin.com/in/davidjohnconnors
Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
JavaScript is just Internet assembly language. It's the frameworks that matter. I used to hate JS with a passion, but the momentum around it is undeniable and the things people accomplish with frameworks on top of it are staggering. So it was you who poetically said last year JavaScript is the assembly language of the Internet. A nice metaphorical comparison that I have passed on to others. Scott, your description of JavaScript is too kind, I call it a tumour on the Internet, but now it's spread so far that we've all just learned to live with the pain. I've used scripting languages of the JavaScript family for decades and they were always great in their place, but now it's absurd that we have gigantic frameworks spitting out script and minifying it like a poor man's optimised machine code. The mere fact that jQuery even needed to be created is a hint you can't ignore that something stinks. I looked at the Kendo samples discussed yesterday and I almost laughed aloud at the massive framework they had to create with an API over an API over a typeless scripting language. It's very clever of course and it's a tribute to just how plastic JavaScript is, but I think it's an abomination. Greg K
Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
David: I think the words your seeking are JavaScript Stockholm Syndrome .. I object strongly to a language who's surrounded by frameworks that are hell bent on abstracting developers from the said language as much as possible because the said language is so far behind the evolution curve. Had JS moved to ECMA4 - ECMA6 ..sure.. i'll play along but this JS ciricle jerk that's going on because everyone's given the defeatist attitude... bleh... And yes, I will concede I see my future with me standing on the roadside way WILL CODE JS FOR CRACK... --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 9:23 AM, David Connors da...@connors.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: better, faster? O.o... did you just say JavaScript is better than WPF? . I said 'someone's 10kb of JS is better. JavaScript is just Internet assembly language. It's the frameworks that matter. I used to hate JS with a passion, but the momentum around it is undeniable and the things people accomplish with frameworks on top of it are staggering. David Connors da...@connors.com | M +61 417 189 363 Download my v-card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors Follow me on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/davidconnors Connect with me on LinkedIn: http://au.linkedin.com/in/davidjohnconnors
RE: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
Hey Scott - I have to admit I'm not particularly imaginative - if you were building the internet from scratch, what do you think would be better than JavaScript? Does this product exist? Thomas From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Friday, 14 February 2014 11:42 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere) David: I think the words your seeking are JavaScript Stockholm Syndrome .. I object strongly to a language who's surrounded by frameworks that are hell bent on abstracting developers from the said language as much as possible because the said language is so far behind the evolution curve. Had JS moved to ECMA4 - ECMA6 ..sure.. i'll play along but this JS ciricle jerk that's going on because everyone's given the defeatist attitude... bleh... And yes, I will concede I see my future with me standing on the roadside way WILL CODE JS FOR CRACK... --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 9:23 AM, David Connors da...@connors.commailto:da...@connors.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.commailto:scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: better, faster? O.o... did you just say JavaScript is better than WPF? . I said 'someone's 10kb of JS is better. JavaScript is just Internet assembly language. It's the frameworks that matter. I used to hate JS with a passion, but the momentum around it is undeniable and the things people accomplish with frameworks on top of it are staggering. David Connors da...@connors.commailto:da...@connors.com | M +61 417 189 363tel:%2B61%20417%20189%20363 Download my v-card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors Follow me on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/davidconnors Connect with me on LinkedIn: http://au.linkedin.com/in/davidjohnconnors Peninsula Health - Metropolitan Health Service of the Year 2007 2009
RE: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
Isn't it all just perspective ? All other languages are just wrappers around machine code anyway. :) Resistance is futile Any problem in computing can be solved by another layer of abstraction. And any performance problem in computing can be solved by removing one layer of abstraction. Regards, Greg Dr Greg Low 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax SQL Down Under | Web: http://www.sqldownunder.com/ www.sqldownunder.com From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Friday, 14 February 2014 11:42 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere) David: I think the words your seeking are JavaScript Stockholm Syndrome .. I object strongly to a language who's surrounded by frameworks that are hell bent on abstracting developers from the said language as much as possible because the said language is so far behind the evolution curve. Had JS moved to ECMA4 - ECMA6 ..sure.. i'll play along but this JS ciricle jerk that's going on because everyone's given the defeatist attitude... bleh... And yes, I will concede I see my future with me standing on the roadside way WILL CODE JS FOR CRACK... --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 9:23 AM, David Connors da...@connors.com mailto:da...@connors.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.com mailto:scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: better, faster? O.o... did you just say JavaScript is better than WPF? . I said 'someone's 10kb of JS is better. JavaScript is just Internet assembly language. It's the frameworks that matter. I used to hate JS with a passion, but the momentum around it is undeniable and the things people accomplish with frameworks on top of it are staggering. David Connors mailto:da...@connors.com da...@connors.com | M +61 417 189 363 tel:%2B61%20417%20189%20363 Download my v-card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors Follow me on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/davidconnors Connect with me on LinkedIn: http://au.linkedin.com/in/davidjohnconnors
Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
Great point Greg. There was a time where I didn't feel like a real programmer because I wasn't writing my code in C++ and then one day I realised that the C++ programmers were not real programmers because they were not writing their code in Assembly Language... and the Assembly Language programmers were not programmers as they were not using modifying binary directly on the hard disk... etc. On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 9:00 AM, GregAtGregLowDotCom g...@greglow.comwrote: Isn’t it all just perspective ? All other languages are just wrappers around machine code anyway. J “Resistance is futile” “Any problem in computing can be solved by another layer of abstraction. And any performance problem in computing can be solved by removing one layer of abstraction.” Regards, Greg Dr Greg Low 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913fax SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes *Sent:* Friday, 14 February 2014 11:42 AM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere) David: I think the words your seeking are JavaScript Stockholm Syndrome .. I object strongly to a language who's surrounded by frameworks that are hell bent on abstracting developers from the said language as much as possible because the said language is so far behind the evolution curve. Had JS moved to ECMA4 - ECMA6 ..sure.. i'll play along but this JS ciricle jerk that's going on because everyone's given the defeatist attitude... bleh... And yes, I will concede I see my future with me standing on the roadside way WILL CODE JS FOR CRACK... --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 9:23 AM, David Connors da...@connors.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: better, faster? O.o... did you just say JavaScript is better than WPF? . I said 'someone's 10kb of JS is better. JavaScript is just Internet assembly language. It's the frameworks that matter. I used to hate JS with a passion, but the momentum around it is undeniable and the things people accomplish with frameworks on top of it are staggering. David Connors da...@connors.com | M +61 417 189 363 Download my v-card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors Follow me on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/davidconnors Connect with me on LinkedIn: http://au.linkedin.com/in/davidjohnconnors
Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
http://xkcd.com/378/ Sent from my flux capacitor. Please excuse brevity and any odd autocorrect errors. On 14/02/2014 12:28 PM, Stephen Price step...@perthprojects.com wrote: Great point Greg. There was a time where I didn't feel like a real programmer because I wasn't writing my code in C++ and then one day I realised that the C++ programmers were not real programmers because they were not writing their code in Assembly Language... and the Assembly Language programmers were not programmers as they were not using modifying binary directly on the hard disk... etc. On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 9:00 AM, GregAtGregLowDotCom g...@greglow.comwrote: Isn’t it all just perspective ? All other languages are just wrappers around machine code anyway. J “Resistance is futile” “Any problem in computing can be solved by another layer of abstraction. And any performance problem in computing can be solved by removing one layer of abstraction.” Regards, Greg Dr Greg Low 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913fax SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes *Sent:* Friday, 14 February 2014 11:42 AM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere) David: I think the words your seeking are JavaScript Stockholm Syndrome .. I object strongly to a language who's surrounded by frameworks that are hell bent on abstracting developers from the said language as much as possible because the said language is so far behind the evolution curve. Had JS moved to ECMA4 - ECMA6 ..sure.. i'll play along but this JS ciricle jerk that's going on because everyone's given the defeatist attitude... bleh... And yes, I will concede I see my future with me standing on the roadside way WILL CODE JS FOR CRACK... --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 9:23 AM, David Connors da...@connors.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: better, faster? O.o... did you just say JavaScript is better than WPF? . I said 'someone's 10kb of JS is better. JavaScript is just Internet assembly language. It's the frameworks that matter. I used to hate JS with a passion, but the momentum around it is undeniable and the things people accomplish with frameworks on top of it are staggering. David Connors da...@connors.com | M +61 417 189 363 Download my v-card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors Follow me on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/davidconnors Connect with me on LinkedIn: http://au.linkedin.com/in/davidjohnconnors
Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
Greg. All machine languages are just wrappers for microcode [?] Preet On 14 February 2014 14:00, GregAtGregLowDotCom g...@greglow.com wrote: Isn’t it all just perspective ? All other languages are just wrappers around machine code anyway. J “Resistance is futile” “Any problem in computing can be solved by another layer of abstraction. And any performance problem in computing can be solved by removing one layer of abstraction.” Regards, Greg Dr Greg Low 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913fax SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes *Sent:* Friday, 14 February 2014 11:42 AM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere) David: I think the words your seeking are JavaScript Stockholm Syndrome .. I object strongly to a language who's surrounded by frameworks that are hell bent on abstracting developers from the said language as much as possible because the said language is so far behind the evolution curve. Had JS moved to ECMA4 - ECMA6 ..sure.. i'll play along but this JS ciricle jerk that's going on because everyone's given the defeatist attitude... bleh... And yes, I will concede I see my future with me standing on the roadside way WILL CODE JS FOR CRACK... --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 9:23 AM, David Connors da...@connors.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: better, faster? O.o... did you just say JavaScript is better than WPF? . I said 'someone's 10kb of JS is better. JavaScript is just Internet assembly language. It's the frameworks that matter. I used to hate JS with a passion, but the momentum around it is undeniable and the things people accomplish with frameworks on top of it are staggering. David Connors da...@connors.com | M +61 417 189 363 Download my v-card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors Follow me on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/davidconnors Connect with me on LinkedIn: http://au.linkedin.com/in/davidjohnconnors -- regards, Preet, Overlooking the Ocean, Auckland 338.gif
Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
Where's my soldering iron... On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 1:04 PM, Preet Sangha preetsan...@gmail.com wrote: Greg. All machine languages are just wrappers for microcode [?] Preet On 14 February 2014 14:00, GregAtGregLowDotCom g...@greglow.com wrote: Isn’t it all just perspective ? All other languages are just wrappers around machine code anyway. J “Resistance is futile” “Any problem in computing can be solved by another layer of abstraction. And any performance problem in computing can be solved by removing one layer of abstraction.” Regards, Greg Dr Greg Low 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913fax SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes *Sent:* Friday, 14 February 2014 11:42 AM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere) David: I think the words your seeking are JavaScript Stockholm Syndrome .. I object strongly to a language who's surrounded by frameworks that are hell bent on abstracting developers from the said language as much as possible because the said language is so far behind the evolution curve. Had JS moved to ECMA4 - ECMA6 ..sure.. i'll play along but this JS ciricle jerk that's going on because everyone's given the defeatist attitude... bleh... And yes, I will concede I see my future with me standing on the roadside way WILL CODE JS FOR CRACK... --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 9:23 AM, David Connors da...@connors.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: better, faster? O.o... did you just say JavaScript is better than WPF? . I said 'someone's 10kb of JS is better. JavaScript is just Internet assembly language. It's the frameworks that matter. I used to hate JS with a passion, but the momentum around it is undeniable and the things people accomplish with frameworks on top of it are staggering. David Connors da...@connors.com | M +61 417 189 363 Download my v-card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors Follow me on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/davidconnors Connect with me on LinkedIn: http://au.linkedin.com/in/davidjohnconnors -- regards, Preet, Overlooking the Ocean, Auckland inline: 338.gif
RE: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
Yeah, I was limiting it to the level of the microprocessor. No interest in actually building or coding inside there nowadays. Regards, Greg Dr Greg Low 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax SQL Down Under | Web: http://www.sqldownunder.com/ www.sqldownunder.com From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Craig van Nieuwkerk Sent: Friday, 14 February 2014 1:11 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere) Where's my soldering iron... On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 1:04 PM, Preet Sangha preetsan...@gmail.com mailto:preetsan...@gmail.com wrote: Greg. All machine languages are just wrappers for microcode Preet On 14 February 2014 14:00, GregAtGregLowDotCom g...@greglow.com mailto:g...@greglow.com wrote: Isn’t it all just perspective ? All other languages are just wrappers around machine code anyway. :) “Resistance is futile” “Any problem in computing can be solved by another layer of abstraction. And any performance problem in computing can be solved by removing one layer of abstraction.” Regards, Greg Dr Greg Low 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 tel:%2B61%20419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 tel:%2B61%203%208676%204913 fax SQL Down Under | Web: http://www.sqldownunder.com/ www.sqldownunder.com From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Friday, 14 February 2014 11:42 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere) David: I think the words your seeking are JavaScript Stockholm Syndrome .. I object strongly to a language who's surrounded by frameworks that are hell bent on abstracting developers from the said language as much as possible because the said language is so far behind the evolution curve. Had JS moved to ECMA4 - ECMA6 ..sure.. i'll play along but this JS ciricle jerk that's going on because everyone's given the defeatist attitude... bleh... And yes, I will concede I see my future with me standing on the roadside way WILL CODE JS FOR CRACK... --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 9:23 AM, David Connors da...@connors.com mailto:da...@connors.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.com mailto:scott.bar...@gmail.com wrote: better, faster? O.o... did you just say JavaScript is better than WPF? . I said 'someone's 10kb of JS is better. JavaScript is just Internet assembly language. It's the frameworks that matter. I used to hate JS with a passion, but the momentum around it is undeniable and the things people accomplish with frameworks on top of it are staggering. David Connors mailto:da...@connors.com da...@connors.com | M +61 417 189 363 tel:%2B61%20417%20189%20363 Download my v-card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors Follow me on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/davidconnors Connect with me on LinkedIn: http://au.linkedin.com/in/davidjohnconnors -- regards, Preet, Overlooking the Ocean, Auckland image001.gif
Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
On Fri, Feb 14, 2014 at 10:42 AM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: David: I think the words your seeking are JavaScript Stockholm Syndrome .. I object strongly to a language who's surrounded by frameworks that are hell bent on abstracting developers from the said language as much as possible because the said language is so far behind the evolution curve. Had JS moved to ECMA4 - ECMA6 ..sure.. i'll play along but this JS ciricle jerk that's going on because everyone's given the defeatist attitude... bleh... And yes, I will concede I see my future with me standing on the roadside way WILL CODE JS FOR CRACK... Frameworks like AngularJS aren't designed to abstract developers from the language. For all its faults and however badly it started out, JS has been hardened in the market to fit a lot of use cases. In terms of the *outcomes* you can create with it and a modern browser, it is exceeding the capabilities of most other ways of getting apps in the hands of users. It might not be as elegant as C# and WPF, but WPF is obscenely slow, platform bound ... and dead. No user of your application gives a shit what the source code looks like, so long as it exceeds their expectations and provides values. Thems where the money is. David.
Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
Silverlight end-of-life is a widely-felt gripe with developers, from my reading (eg, just today - Visual Studio Magazine - Satya Nadella's To-Do List [link http://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2014/02/11/satya-nadellas-to-do-li st.aspx ] - Andrew Brust). There are several offerings of advice to the new CEO, and to Scott Guthrie as interim head of Enterprise and Cloud at Microsoft. _ Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Keogh Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 2:49 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Migrating TFS Greg? Where are you? This is your cue. Ah! What! I'm awake ... I saw Silverlight mentioned as dead and abandoned. Guess what I've been doing all day today .. expanding a large Silverlight 5 app. We have no alternative, we've spent years developing the app and it's in use by some gigantic companies internationally. What the hell else can we do? Seriously! Discussion here last year pointed out that HTML5 is the only alternative to delivering rich apps on the browser desktop, but it groans under stress and I was warned that it just can't show attractive interactive charts of the type available with the ComponentOne SL libraries. Also, I have subscribed to MSDN Magazine (MSJ as it was) since 1993 and I agree that it is generally uninteresting these days because it's mostly about JavaScript, Stores, Azure, Windows RT and Windows 8 (the latest groovy stuff you're talking about). I find I flip through new issues and chuck them aside. I like academic articles, but Petzold's and McCaffrey's articles are so abstract they're in the twilight zone. My day to day development experience is consistently as infuriating and unpredictable as ever. Projects won't build, IIS goes haywire with code 500s, versions clash, dependencies are all over the shop, kits don't work, samples are simplistic, designers crash, I'm coding XAML UIs by hand, I have to learn WiX, I have to run VS2013 and VS2012 side by side due to COM problems, my VS2013 is diseased, and so on. I get up in the morning and the things that worked the night before are all on the fritz. Sometimes I miss punch cards. However, I don't want to fuel the jovial atmosphere of impending doom that pervades this forum ;-) Greg
Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
Yeah you need to move on from Silverlight that ship sailed in 2009 and even if they wanted to put that broken toy back together again, it would be likely back under the hood of WPF (which is apparently today what they did by putting the WPF band back together - how or what that looks like is something I'd like to see more details on (if its true)). Based of my own interactions with ScottGu has always been He knows, in that i've sat in rooms with him and watched him articulate the needs of the .NET community with freakish accuracy at times on capturing the pulse. The thing that (until now) people need to know is that being a CVP doesn't mean you have unmoderated power within the company, you have some control over your own charter sure but SVP/VP/P dudes still pull the strings. Him being in this new hot seat however does make things smart for the company, as again, i highly doubt he's been unaware of the issues of the day its just not been in his wheelhouse until now. I mean we've all seen a fairly significant change in Azure since he took over, so stuff gets done under his watch IF he has accountability and authority... thats the key :) I'm hoping he's behind the WPF reboot rumours i'm hearing more and more of. He understood better than most about the Silverlight/WPF strategy that was trying to be achieved and i'd say everyone who was in that team didn't doubt his commitment (until Windows team did their bullshit)... I personally think TheGu is finally making the comeback Rocky style.. (but i'm realistic enough to know the myth behind the man is still a bit of showman / myth) and i'm hoping we can all move past this bullshit .NET hate debt that Sinofsky banked and get on with this whole Ux Platform thing... as I AM NOT DOING JavaScript work... i refuse to adopt a language who's best frameworks are set-up solely to abstract you from that language? wtf? first clue you have a problem :) --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 6:19 PM, ILT (O) il.tho...@outlook.com wrote: Silverlight end-of-life is a widely-felt gripe with developers, from my reading (eg, just today - Visual Studio Magazine - *Satya Nadella's To-Do List* [linkhttp://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2014/02/11/satya-nadellas-to-do-list.aspx] - Andrew Brust). There are several offerings of advice to the new CEO, and to Scott Guthrie as interim head of Enterprise and Cloud at Microsoft. -- Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Greg Keogh *Sent:* Wednesday, February 12, 2014 2:49 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: Migrating TFS Greg? Where are you? This is your cue. Ah! What! I'm awake ... I saw Silverlight mentioned as dead and abandoned. Guess what I've been doing all day today .. expanding a large Silverlight 5 app. We have no alternative, we've spent years developing the app and it's in use by some gigantic companies internationally. What the hell else can we do? Seriously! Discussion here last year pointed out that HTML5 is the only alternative to delivering rich apps on the browser desktop, but it groans under stress and I was warned that it just can't show attractive interactive charts of the type available with the ComponentOne SL libraries. Also, I have subscribed to MSDN Magazine (MSJ as it was) since 1993 and I agree that it is generally uninteresting these days because it's mostly about JavaScript, Stores, Azure, Windows RT and Windows 8 (the latest groovy stuff you're talking about). I find I flip through new issues and chuck them aside. I like academic articles, but Petzold's and McCaffrey's articles are so abstract they're in the twilight zone. My day to day development experience is consistently as infuriating and unpredictable as ever. Projects won't build, IIS goes haywire with code 500s, versions clash, dependencies are all over the shop, kits don't work, samples are simplistic, designers crash, I'm coding XAML UIs by hand, I have to learn WiX, I have to run VS2013 and VS2012 side by side due to COM problems, my VS2013 is diseased, and so on. I get up in the morning and the things that worked the night before are all on the fritz. Sometimes I miss punch cards. However, I don't want to fuel the jovial atmosphere of impending doom that pervades this forum ;-) Greg
RE: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
Silverlight/Jupiter (Windows XAML) started under ScottGu. From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 2:00 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere) Yeah you need to move on from Silverlight that ship sailed in 2009 and even if they wanted to put that broken toy back together again, it would be likely back under the hood of WPF (which is apparently today what they did by putting the WPF band back together - how or what that looks like is something I'd like to see more details on (if its true)). Based of my own interactions with ScottGu has always been He knows, in that i've sat in rooms with him and watched him articulate the needs of the .NET community with freakish accuracy at times on capturing the pulse. The thing that (until now) people need to know is that being a CVP doesn't mean you have unmoderated power within the company, you have some control over your own charter sure but SVP/VP/P dudes still pull the strings. Him being in this new hot seat however does make things smart for the company, as again, i highly doubt he's been unaware of the issues of the day its just not been in his wheelhouse until now. I mean we've all seen a fairly significant change in Azure since he took over, so stuff gets done under his watch IF he has accountability and authority... thats the key :) I'm hoping he's behind the WPF reboot rumours i'm hearing more and more of. He understood better than most about the Silverlight/WPF strategy that was trying to be achieved and i'd say everyone who was in that team didn't doubt his commitment (until Windows team did their bullshit)... I personally think TheGu is finally making the comeback Rocky style.. (but i'm realistic enough to know the myth behind the man is still a bit of showman / myth) and i'm hoping we can all move past this bullshit .NET hate debt that Sinofsky banked and get on with this whole Ux Platform thing... as I AM NOT DOING JavaScript work... i refuse to adopt a language who's best frameworks are set-up solely to abstract you from that language? wtf? first clue you have a problem :) --- Regards, Scott Barnes http://www.riagenic.com On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 6:19 PM, ILT (O) il.tho...@outlook.commailto:il.tho...@outlook.com wrote: Silverlight end-of-life is a widely-felt gripe with developers, from my reading (eg, just today - Visual Studio Magazine - Satya Nadella's To-Do List [linkhttp://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2014/02/11/satya-nadellas-to-do-list.aspx] - Andrew Brust). There are several offerings of advice to the new CEO, and to Scott Guthrie as interim head of Enterprise and Cloud at Microsoft. Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Keogh Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 2:49 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Migrating TFS Greg? Where are you? This is your cue. Ah! What! I'm awake ... I saw Silverlight mentioned as dead and abandoned. Guess what I've been doing all day today .. expanding a large Silverlight 5 app. We have no alternative, we've spent years developing the app and it's in use by some gigantic companies internationally. What the hell else can we do? Seriously! Discussion here last year pointed out that HTML5 is the only alternative to delivering rich apps on the browser desktop, but it groans under stress and I was warned that it just can't show attractive interactive charts of the type available with the ComponentOne SL libraries. Also, I have subscribed to MSDN Magazine (MSJ as it was) since 1993 and I agree that it is generally uninteresting these days because it's mostly about JavaScript, Stores, Azure, Windows RT and Windows 8 (the latest groovy stuff you're talking about). I find I flip through new issues and chuck them aside. I like academic articles, but Petzold's and McCaffrey's articles are so abstract they're in the twilight zone. My day to day development experience is consistently as infuriating and unpredictable as ever. Projects won't build, IIS goes haywire with code 500s, versions clash, dependencies are all over the shop, kits don't work, samples are simplistic, designers crash, I'm coding XAML UIs by hand, I have to learn WiX, I have to run VS2013 and VS2012 side by side due to COM problems, my VS2013 is diseased, and so on. I get up in the morning and the things that worked the night before are all on the fritz. Sometimes I miss punch cards. However, I don't want to fuel the jovial atmosphere of impending doom that pervades this forum ;-) Greg
Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
inline (but not const) On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 7:19 PM, ILT (O) il.tho...@outlook.com wrote: Silverlight “end-of-life” is a widely-felt gripe with developers, from my reading (eg, just today – Visual Studio Magazine – “*Satya Nadella's To-Do List*” [linkhttp://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2014/02/11/satya-nadellas-to-do-list.aspx] – Andrew Brust). There are several offerings of advice to the new CEO, and to Scott Guthrie as interim head of Enterprise and Cloud at Microsoft. -- Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Greg Keogh *Sent:* Wednesday, February 12, 2014 2:49 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: Migrating TFS Greg? Where are you? This is your cue. Ah! What! I'm awake ... I saw Silverlight mentioned as dead and abandoned. Guess what I've been doing all day today .. expanding a large Silverlight 5 app. We have no alternative, we've spent years developing the app and it's in use by some gigantic companies internationally. So is COBOL and FORTRAN What the hell else can we do? Seriously! Discussion here last year pointed out that HTML5 is the only alternative to delivering rich apps on the browser desktop, but it groans under stress and I was warned that it just can't show attractive interactive charts of the type available with the ComponentOne SL libraries. Hope that MS are feeling nice and release it to SourceForge. Also, I have subscribed to MSDN Magazine (MSJ as it was) since 1993 and I agree that it is generally uninteresting these days because it's mostly about JavaScript, Stores, Azure, Windows RT and Windows 8 (the latest groovy stuff you're talking about). I find I flip through new issues and chuck them aside. I like academic articles, but Petzold's and McCaffrey's articles are so abstract they're in the twilight zone. MSJ - used to be a good magazine. Matt Pietrek, Paul DiLascia ( If this code works, it was written by Paul DiLascia. If not, I don't know who wrote it.) were awesome. It's a puff piece now. My day to day development experience is consistently as infuriating and unpredictable as ever. Projects won't build, IIS goes haywire with code 500s, versions clash, dependencies are all over the shop, kits don't work, samples are simplistic, designers crash, I'm coding XAML UIs by hand, I have to learn WiX, I have to run VS2013 and VS2012 side by side due to COM problems, my VS2013 is diseased, and so on. I get up in the morning and the things that worked the night before are all on the fritz. Sometimes I miss punch cards. Wix, damnable stuff makes your eyes bleed to read it. However, I don't want to fuel the jovial atmosphere of impending doom that pervades this forum ;-) Greg -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
RE: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
I wasn’t aware that Scott Guthrie had responsibility for Silverlight and XAML initially. _ Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of mike smith Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 12:28 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere) inline (but not const) On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 7:19 PM, ILT (O) il.tho...@outlook.com wrote: Silverlight “end-of-life” is a widely-felt gripe with developers, from my reading (eg, just today – Visual Studio Magazine – “Satya Nadella's To-Do List” [link http://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2014/02/11/satya-nadellas-to-do-list.aspx ] – Andrew Brust). There are several offerings of advice to the new CEO, and to Scott Guthrie as interim head of Enterprise and Cloud at Microsoft. _ Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Keogh Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 2:49 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: Migrating TFS Greg? Where are you? This is your cue. Ah! What! I'm awake ... I saw Silverlight mentioned as dead and abandoned. Guess what I've been doing all day today .. expanding a large Silverlight 5 app. We have no alternative, we've spent years developing the app and it's in use by some gigantic companies internationally. So is COBOL and FORTRAN What the hell else can we do? Seriously! Discussion here last year pointed out that HTML5 is the only alternative to delivering rich apps on the browser desktop, but it groans under stress and I was warned that it just can't show attractive interactive charts of the type available with the ComponentOne SL libraries. Hope that MS are feeling nice and release it to SourceForge. Also, I have subscribed to MSDN Magazine (MSJ as it was) since 1993 and I agree that it is generally uninteresting these days because it's mostly about JavaScript, Stores, Azure, Windows RT and Windows 8 (the latest groovy stuff you're talking about). I find I flip through new issues and chuck them aside. I like academic articles, but Petzold's and McCaffrey's articles are so abstract they're in the twilight zone. MSJ - used to be a good magazine. Matt Pietrek, Paul DiLascia ( If this code works, it was written by Paul DiLascia. If not, I don't know who wrote it.) were awesome. It's a puff piece now. My day to day development experience is consistently as infuriating and unpredictable as ever. Projects won't build, IIS goes haywire with code 500s, versions clash, dependencies are all over the shop, kits don't work, samples are simplistic, designers crash, I'm coding XAML UIs by hand, I have to learn WiX, I have to run VS2013 and VS2012 side by side due to COM problems, my VS2013 is diseased, and so on. I get up in the morning and the things that worked the night before are all on the fritz. Sometimes I miss punch cards. Wix, damnable stuff makes your eyes bleed to read it. However, I don't want to fuel the jovial atmosphere of impending doom that pervades this forum ;-) Greg -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
RE: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
Xaml from the early days of WPF is circa 2002 or earlier. I think the GU was still hacking out ASP.NET on planes as a PM at that time. On Feb 13, 2014 2:43 PM, ILT (O) il.tho...@outlook.com wrote: I wasn't aware that Scott Guthrie had responsibility for Silverlight and XAML initially. -- Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *mike smith *Sent:* Thursday, February 13, 2014 12:28 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere) inline (but not const) On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 7:19 PM, ILT (O) il.tho...@outlook.com wrote: Silverlight end-of-life is a widely-felt gripe with developers, from my reading (eg, just today - Visual Studio Magazine - *Satya Nadella's To-Do List* [linkhttp://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2014/02/11/satya-nadellas-to-do-list.aspx] - Andrew Brust). There are several offerings of advice to the new CEO, and to Scott Guthrie as interim head of Enterprise and Cloud at Microsoft. -- Ian Thomas Victoria Park, Western Australia *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Greg Keogh *Sent:* Wednesday, February 12, 2014 2:49 PM *To:* ozDotNet *Subject:* Re: Migrating TFS Greg? Where are you? This is your cue. Ah! What! I'm awake ... I saw Silverlight mentioned as dead and abandoned. Guess what I've been doing all day today .. expanding a large Silverlight 5 app. We have no alternative, we've spent years developing the app and it's in use by some gigantic companies internationally. So is COBOL and FORTRAN What the hell else can we do? Seriously! Discussion here last year pointed out that HTML5 is the only alternative to delivering rich apps on the browser desktop, but it groans under stress and I was warned that it just can't show attractive interactive charts of the type available with the ComponentOne SL libraries. Hope that MS are feeling nice and release it to SourceForge. Also, I have subscribed to MSDN Magazine (MSJ as it was) since 1993 and I agree that it is generally uninteresting these days because it's mostly about JavaScript, Stores, Azure, Windows RT and Windows 8 (the latest groovy stuff you're talking about). I find I flip through new issues and chuck them aside. I like academic articles, but Petzold's and McCaffrey's articles are so abstract they're in the twilight zone. MSJ - used to be a good magazine. Matt Pietrek, Paul DiLascia ( If this code works, it was written by Paul DiLascia. If not, I don't know who wrote it.) were awesome. It's a puff piece now. My day to day development experience is consistently as infuriating and unpredictable as ever. Projects won't build, IIS goes haywire with code 500s, versions clash, dependencies are all over the shop, kits don't work, samples are simplistic, designers crash, I'm coding XAML UIs by hand, I have to learn WiX, I have to run VS2013 and VS2012 side by side due to COM problems, my VS2013 is diseased, and so on. I get up in the morning and the things that worked the night before are all on the fritz. Sometimes I miss punch cards. Wix, damnable stuff makes your eyes bleed to read it. However, I don't want to fuel the jovial atmosphere of impending doom that pervades this forum ;-) Greg -- Meski http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills
Re: Advice to Microsoft (not mine - the IT press and developer blogosphere)
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 7:59 PM, Scott Barnes scott.bar...@gmail.comwrote: I'm hoping he's behind the WPF reboot rumours i'm hearing more and more of. WPF Reboot? I for one can't wait for 2 gigabyte of RAM footprint calculator applications and my GPU shitting itself trying to draw a green square at 3fps. Rich applications are dead. Long live rich applications! http://www.unrealengine.com/html5/ David.
