Re: Economics and law

2004-08-16 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 8/16/2004 5:39:53 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Stalin was not hated (by most people). He was worshipped (by most people). Being a brutal dictator does not necessarily mean that you are hated or seen as illegitimate by the people over whom you are

Re: Economics and law/bureaucratic order made real

2004-08-16 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 8/15/2004 1:00:35 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The American system of vehicle production was very bureaucratic . . . but less than that of the Soviets and much more than that of the Japanese producers . . . in terms of democratic input of the workers .

Re: Economics and law/bureaucratic order made real

2004-08-15 Thread Waistline2
The whole matter of workers control and democratic input in the actual production process or what I understand to be the collective intellectual and emotional passions of the working class . . . and giving this broad _expression_ . . . has driven me up the wall for twenty years of my working

Re: Economics and law

2004-08-15 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 8/15/2004 12:34:00 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Lenin expressly holds up Taylorism as an ideal for Soviet industry at a couple of points. I could find the references if you wanted. But I think the Bolshies were more impressed with German war planning

Re: economics, law and the old soviet economy/the big quote

2004-08-14 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 8/14/2004 8:18:31 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CB: When you say "abolish property" instead of "abolish private property" are you putting forth a different concept than the one that Marx , Engels and Marxists use ? Or just shorthand for what Marxists

Re: naming that system

2004-08-14 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 8/14/2004 2:47:45 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The reason that Schachtman was dead wrong was that the Stalinist bureaucracy, which he fantasized as a historically new *ruling class*, had no ability (or desire) to inaugurate a new mode of

Re: Economics and law

2004-08-13 Thread Waistline2
Mainly that was me writing off the cuff while trying to meet a deadline and working through a hangover. It would be better to say something like "the shape of Soviet society was determined first and foremost by the need to develop an agrarian country. It succeeded. The rest of the stuff is

Re: economics, law and the old soviet economy

2004-08-13 Thread Waistline2
1928 - At the same time we have around us a number of capitalist countries whose industrial technique is far more developed and up-to-date than that of our country. Look at the capitalist countries and you will see that their technology is not only advancing, but advancing by leaps and bounds,

Re: economics, law and the old soviet economy/the big quote

2004-08-13 Thread Waistline2
(M.Hoover wins the door prize . . . The Task of Economic Executives 1931.) 1931 - It is sometimes asked whether it is not possible to slow down the tempo somewhat, to put a check on the movement. No, comrades, it is not possible ! The tempo must not be reduced! On the contrary, we must

Re: economics, law and the old soviet economy/the big quote

2004-08-13 Thread Waistline2
In the past we had no fatherland, nor could we have had one. But now that we have overthrown capitalism and power is in our hands, in the hands of the people, we have a fatherland, and we will uphold its independence. Do you want our socialist fatherland to be beaten and to lose its independence?

Re: Stan Goff article

2004-08-13 Thread Waistline2
http://www.counterpunch.org/goff08132004.html This is a long, well-researched article that takes on John Kerry's environmentalist platform but goes much deeper into broader questions of oil depletion, global warming, etc. It cites Mark Jones extensively as well as Henry Liu. Highly

Re: Fidel Castro horrified by China

2004-08-11 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 8/11/2004 12:06:10 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Also, your employment numbers are fantastically off. Here's a report (2002) from China's State Council: Reply Thanks for the data. Actually . . . they are not my figures . . . and perhaps should not

Re: Fidel Castro horrified by China

2004-08-11 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 8/11/2004 12:06:10 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From the perspective of living labor, what is the difference betweenstate and non-state management if their common goal is the ruthlessexpansion of value? Comment The property relations that determines

Re: Fidel Castro horrified by China

2004-08-11 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 8/11/2004 3:20:06 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nevertheless my base question was what did Fidel say that qualified as being horrified by China. He probably has never criticized China's capitalist transformation publicly since

Re: Fidel Castro horrified by China

2004-08-10 Thread Waistline2
HORRIFIED BY CHINA Western observers said Castro was shocked by the rapid move to capitalism and growing social differences he witnessed in China last year. "There is no coincidence that a lot of this has happened since he visited China. Many people say he was horrified with what he saw,"

Re: Economics and law

2004-08-10 Thread Waistline2
David, the problem with the Pinto is that the government does not adequately regulate safety -- not even to the extent of making relevant information available -- so the regulation is left to the lawsuits -- a very inefficient way of doing things. A few bucks for a protective gasket would not

Re: McJobs

2004-08-09 Thread Waistline2
To prevent this email message from getting swept up by anoverzealous spam filter, please add our "From" address([EMAIL PROTECTED]) to your address book.August 6, 2004Jobs stink! Stocks crash! SELL now!Dear investorplace.com member,Today, the jobs number came out for July, and it was NOT

Re: [Marxism] Jonathan Schell on the DP's prowar stance

2004-08-08 Thread Waistline2
An invitation to any public forum is important. I have had an opportunity to speak in Churches before . . . Detroit and Montgomery Alabama and did work with the old Theology in the Americas Movement . . . as well as public speaking and giving written reports to trade union members on a weekly

Re: China and socialism

2004-08-03 Thread Waistline2
I . . .uhhEye against IFlesh of my flesh and Mind of my mind.Two of a kind but one won't survive.The image is reflect in my enemy eyes and my image is reflect in his the same time. Right here is where the end gonna start at.Conflict . . . contact . . . call back.Fighter stand where the

Re: China and socialism

2004-08-02 Thread Waistline2
There are also reports of college students who jumped from high-rise dormitory buildings in protest of the governments timid "peaceful" policy over Taiwan independence. The suicide-protestors wanted the government to take Taiwan for force right now and stand up to US bullying. The report

Re: China and socialism . . . yea . . . when it all fall down

2004-08-02 Thread Waistline2
The problem, unfortunately, is there has never been anything other than a "scorched earth march to fully developed capitalist property relations" --anywhere, ever. Therefore, the issue becomes: is such a march historically progressive, despite the human toll? Marx, of course, answered in

Re: Try email stripper to end wrap around

2004-08-02 Thread Waistline2
This email was cleaned by emailStripper, available for free from http://www.papercut.biz/emailStripper.htm

Re: The Soviet empire was a drain on Moscow

2004-08-02 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 8/2/2004 10:28:39 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Russians lived more poorly than people in any other of the republics or in the Eastern Bloc (except maybe Albania?). Moscow may have been a possible exception. It's one of the reasons why Russia junked

Re: China and socialism- 50 years of the Western Left

2004-08-02 Thread Waistline2
Pieinsky wrote: Questions for Henry from an old Maoist: (1) Aren't you concerned at all about the evidence of increasing class disparities and the consequent rise of open class struggles (workers' strikes, farmers' protests, etc.) in "Red" China? What do these occurrences mean, in your

Re: China and socialism

2004-08-02 Thread Waistline2
As for whether China would be a good model for the rest of the Third World, let the people of the Third World decide for themselves. We don't need self-righteous academics in the West to pronounce what is an ideologically correct model for the Third World. The sad fact is that the Western

Re: China and socialism

2004-08-02 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 8/2/2004 4:55:52 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have tried to get in touch with Michael and Sabri, but I think that the situation is so urgent that the obvious step has to be taken of terminating the thread which started with discussion of The

Re: A Question for the Moderator

2004-08-01 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/31/2004 7:33:32 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As I recall DuBois and James Jackson produced the best articles on the national question (especially as it regarded African Americans) for PA in the 1950s, all of which broke with the "Black-belt

Re: A Question for the Moderator- race, ideology and the right thing to do.

2004-08-01 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/31/2004 4:17:43 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I remember trying to speak with the boyfriend of my first wife's mother. He worked in a gas station. He was not stupid, but he was angry. He directed much of this anger at Blacks, but I think he was

Re: China and socialism

2004-08-01 Thread Waistline2
If any confirmation of the correctness of Marty Hart-Landsberg and Paul Burkett's "China and Socialism" (a book-length article in the July-August 2004 Monthly Review) was needed, you can look at the heartrending Aug. 1, 2004 NY Times article on the suicide of Zheng Qingming. This 18 year

Re: ethnic divisions

2004-07-31 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/29/2004 2:02:24 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Are the ethnic hostilities something that would naturally die out without being enflamed intentionally for political gains or are they inevitable? The Irish were regarded almost identically to the

Re: A Question for the Moderator

2004-07-31 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/31/2004 8:22:28 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In 1991, Grozny's population was about 50% non-Chechen. The Nautsky district in Chechnya was about 75% non-Chechen, mostly Russians, Ukrainians and Cossacks who lived there since the 15th century. Those

Re: A Question for the Moderator

2004-07-31 Thread Waistline2
Ours is a war for position and ideological and political statements are converted into policy . . . in real time. Who determines "what" is the great war of attribution and will. If we win over no we lose by default. We cannot win over any segment of our working class on the basis of

Re: A Question for the Moderator

2004-07-31 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/31/2004 7:33:32 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I would be interested to learn which articles in PA you considered valuable and those which you found unhelpful on the subject of the national question. As I recall DuBois and James Jackson produced

Re: Failure of socialist revolution in the West fault of Kremlin/art and beauty

2004-07-30 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/30/2004 3:04:47 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Actually there was experimental art in the Soviet Union. It was just not exhibited in public places. I know some of the people involved. They exhibited in their apartments. Just because something was

Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state? - Lou P. and Mr. Green

2004-07-29 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/28/2004 12:13:45 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I am simply interested in the proponents of self determination . . . Lou P . . . and Mr. Green and whether they have any material on their support of Regional autonomy for the Southwest in

Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state? -

2004-07-29 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/29/2004 8:49:16 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: how can you say that the original _expression_ of the local population is irrelevant today? if it is true that the kashmiri people wish to be rid of indian oppression, and we are afraid that the result

Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state?

2004-07-29 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/29/2004 9:58:32 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Charles Brown wrote: CB: The SU had autonomous regions.They were formally autonomous. In reality, there was Great Russianchauvinism from just around the time that Stalin was consolidatingpower.

Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state?

2004-07-29 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/29/2004 9:58:32 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Charles Brown wrote: CB: The SU had autonomous regions. They were formally autonomous. In reality, there was Great Russian chauvinism from just around the time that Stalin was consolidating power.

Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state? -

2004-07-29 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/29/2004 12:47:43 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And Lenin outlines issues for struggling against chauvinism including affirmative action: "That is why internationalism on the part of oppressors or "great" nations, as they are called (though they

Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state? -

2004-07-29 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/29/2004 1:22:52 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: OK.Let's end this thread right away!--Michael PerelmanEconomics DepartmentCalifornia State UniversityChico, CA 95929 Comment Sorry . . . sent last reply before rading this. No more from me.

Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state?

2004-07-29 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/29/2004 2:05:52 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: by Louis Proyect-clip-... and the failure tomake socialist revolution in the West--a failure in itself directlyattributable to the Kremlin's own lack of Marxist insights.CB: Failure to make

Re: Failure of socialist revolution in the West is fault of Kremlin

2004-07-29 Thread Waistline2
The Great Russian chauvinism went hand in hand with hostility to gay rights, feminism, experimentalism in the arts, workers democracy and every other emancipatory impulse in the USSR. Stalin was transmitting the social pressure of Czarist officialdom, which was re-emerging in the 1920s in

Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state?

2004-07-28 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/28/2004 11:41:00 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Look, mister alienatethepublicwiththenameofmywebsite.com, I actually know Chechens. Real-live Chechens. They live in Moscow. I get drunk with them. They do not support the jihadis. I am not going to

Re: The Blind Swordsman Zatoichi

2004-07-28 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/28/2004 12:16:54 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: didn't straight-to-video fave Rutger Hauer star in a film about a blind swordsman once? dd Comment Not sure but every since Rutger Hauer's incredible performance in Blade Runner . . . I have been

Re: John Kerry and Langston Hughes

2004-07-26 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/26/2004 9:57:10 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hughes ends his poem on a more hopeful note ("America never was America to me/ And yet I swear this oath/ America will be!"), but the future Hughes imagined for America when he wrote those words

Re: John Kerry and Langston Hughes

2004-07-26 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/26/2004 11:02:14 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I was quoting a Slate.com article. Comment Sorry . . . and apologies are due. There are times when the distinction is blurred and indistinguishable. Melvin P.

Re: Query: Ford/General Motors - correction

2004-07-24 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/23/2004 6:35:11 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A per unit drop of labor input of 40% in 30 years is running at an annual improvement factor of more than 10% and what is built into the union contract is an annual improvement factor of 3%

Re: Thomas Frank op-ed piece

2004-07-24 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/24/2004 1:04:02 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Or to put it another way, to reject Marx's distinction between productive and unproductive labor (by placing on it the burden of practical economics or political economy) you will completely lose the

Re: Query: Ford/General Motors

2004-07-23 Thread Waistline2
Wall Street analysts said they'd like to see GM -- as well as Ford -- make more money from selling cars and trucks. Ford is even more dependent than GM on its credit business, getting about 77 percent of its profits from there. "I think at both GM and Ford the reliance is a general concern.

Re: Query: Ford/General Motors

2004-07-23 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/23/2004 4:04:00 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CB: Well GM is only about the third largest company in the world now. I wonder if what's good for General Motors is still good for America. Way back in the thirties it was Alfred P. Sloan ( I think)

Re: Query: Ford/General Motors

2004-07-23 Thread Waistline2
General Motors put on the back burner for a moment its new production facility design of modular produced vehicles . .. where the modules are shipped to a central point for assembly. By the early 1970 General Motors already had the blueprints for a 90 - 95% automated engine assembly plant .

Re: Monthly Review: China and Market Socialism

2004-07-22 Thread Waistline2
What is the best source that discusses the pre-reform political and economic developments in China. The Monthly Review special issue focuses almost entirely on post-1978. Would a comparison of directions/developments pre- and post -978 be worthwhile? Joel Wendland

Re: The South and the Election

2004-07-22 Thread Waistline2
The south and the elections By John Slaughter The benchmark of American democracy since its inception has been the vote. While the masses of the people who participated in the revolution of 1776 -- the workers fresh from the debtor's prisons of Europe, indentured servants, farmers, slaves,

Re: Thomas Frank op-ed piece

2004-07-22 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/20/2004 1:20:58 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just one more thing: Is apologizing for the occupation part of being a great "uniter" rather than a "divider" of the working class? Just curious, you know, because my experience with union

Re: Thomas Frank op-ed piece/union democracy and revolutionary impulse

2004-07-22 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/22/2004 4:36:59 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thanks for that Brother Melvin. Damned if I didn't think that Fraser tried to fight his way into Jefferson Avenue. But I was out of Detroit in 1973, and heard about it, and the other battles, from

Re: FW: berger whopper

2004-07-22 Thread Waistline2
testing

Re: Loss of faith in higher education

2004-07-22 Thread Waistline2
test

Re: absolute general law of capitalist accumulation

2004-07-22 Thread Waistline2
These claims about how a subjectivity willing and able to transform productive relations into rational relations are mistaken. Individuals immiserized in this way would ( not) be subjects of this kind. there is no necessity, however, for capitalism to produce immiserization. The organic

Re: absolute general law of capitalist accumulation

2004-07-21 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/21/2004 8:07:43 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: there is no necessity, however, for capitalism to produce immiserization. The organic composition of capital doesn't have to change in the way Marx assumes. For this and other reasons, the creation of

Re: Thomas Frank op-ed piece

2004-07-21 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/21/2004 11:03:21 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The facts are that the economy is worse off now than before; living standards continue to decline; oil revenues are misappropriated. This was/is a capitalist assault against the social costs of

Re: absolute general law of capitalist accumulation/dialectics and logic

2004-07-21 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/21/2004 11:36:26 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The contradictions dealt with in the absolute general law of capitalist accumulation are the poverty and unemployment that inherently accompany technological progress under capitalist relations of

Re: unions

2004-07-20 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/19/2004 11:16:11 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I don't see why pushing to make labor unions more democratic and to make the established leadership more responsible represents a "split in the working class." A union would be more effective if

Re: Socialism Betrayed/4 - value and the industrial system

2004-07-20 Thread Waistline2
eds to be suspended and Soviet society be looked at on the basis of tits own internal development on a hostile mode of production in a hostile world. These are sharp questions that cannot be treated lightly. Why could they not overcome the law of value? Melvin P. Waistline2 wrote:"

Re: Venture Communism/morped/ Socialism Betrayed

2004-07-19 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/18/2004 3:16:15 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CB: Yes, the South started the Civil War (a counter-revolutionary coup d'etat see Aptheker) because the slave system could only survive by constantly expanding geographically ,i.e. by geographical

Re: /morped/ Socialism Betrayed - the property relations within, its meaning

2004-07-19 Thread Waistline2
CB: I'm not sure what you mean by "with the property relations within" ^ The unions of labor force of the workers and the means of production is simultaneously a connection of productive forces and a connection of people in the process of production which together makes up

Re: the property relations within, its meaning- Last

2004-07-19 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/19/2004 11:49:28 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CB: Well, "property relations within WHICH the productive forces work" Comment Last response . . . the moderator has called for an end. Read what Marx states because you reverse what he stated.

Re: Venture Communism

2004-07-18 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/17/2004 6:48:01 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is why venture communism attempts to subvert the system by sharing profit equally, instead of making surplus value into private accumulation, it makes into shared wealth. We are losing the

Re: Socialism Betrayed/2

2004-07-18 Thread Waistline2
"Socialism Betrayed: Behind the collapse of the Soviet Union,"by Roger Keeran and Thomas Kenny remains a good read. Chapter 7 - Conclusions and Implications contains theoretical implications and statements as facts that reveal that far to many Marxists in the American Union have yet to get

Re: Venture Communism/morped/ Socialism Betrayed

2004-07-18 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/18/2004 10:41:09 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CB: Yep, I feel you. However, unfortunately, I am skeptical about industrial society and its bureaucracy going away, going "post". I think one could argue that it is going "super" rather than going

Re: Socialism Betrayed/3 - value and the industrial system

2004-07-18 Thread Waistline2
"The entire history of Soviet socialism shows that class struggle, the struggle to abolish classes, does not end with the seizure of state power and does not end after seventy years of building socialism, although in truth the USSR actually had far than seven decades to build socialism,

Re: Socialism Betrayed/4 - value and the industrial system

2004-07-18 Thread Waistline2
Is there no way to get to communist society more directly from relative scarcity, as might be the case in the wake of war or "natural" disaster? A dogmatic economic-determinist interpretation of Marx suggests not, but I think that's too narrow, at least in the present and likely future

Re: Venture Communism/morped/ Socialism Betrayed

2004-07-18 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/18/2004 3:16:15 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: CB: I'd call it superindustrial, because the machines are augmented by the computers, and the machines are the "absolute" in industry and thecooperation is the "relative" term. The scattering of

Re: [Fwd: Swans' Release: July 19, 2004]

2004-07-18 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/18/2004 5:05:30 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I've stay out of this discussion, to everybody's relief (and my own), but is it possible that anyone can really endorse voting for a national Democratic candidate as progressive, or even the lesser

Re: [Fwd: Swans' Release: July 19, 2004]

2004-07-18 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/18/2004 4:33:01 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Response Jim C: "The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything." (Josef Stalin) Comment This is true and how it playsitself out in real life and

Fahrenheit 911

2004-07-17 Thread Waistline2
Yesterday - 7/16 .. . was the wife birthday and among other things we had planned on going to the movie and hanging out in celebration of her first birthday in a new city and state many miles from Detroit. Both of us are native Detroiters, having recently left the children (all adults) and

Re: Venture Communism

2004-07-17 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/16/2004 3:50:55 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The Venture Communist is a Public Entrepreneur, Venture Communism is not a political model, but rather it is a transitional tacticdesigned to promote an equitable distribution of wealth via

Re: Fahrenheit 911

2004-07-17 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/17/2004 8:59:28 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Fahrenheit 911 shattered something in the consciousness of my wife that is similar to an addict hitting bottom and having to face the consequence of his actions and belief system. The

Re: Fahrenheit 911

2004-07-17 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/17/2004 9:48:40 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Fahrenheit 911 shattered something in the consciousness of my wife that is similar to an addict hitting bottom and having to face the consequence of his actions and belief system. The

Re: Venture Communism/morped/ Socialism Betrayed

2004-07-17 Thread Waistline2
I'd be interested in further comments on Keeran and Kenny's "Socialism Betrayed." I'm not sure what to think. They put a lot of emphasis on the destructive role of the black market, but it's not clear what they propose should have been done about it. (They do more or less make the claim

Re: Venture Communism

2004-07-17 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/17/2004 11:53:55 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I see, so what do you suggest workers do in the mean time, give up? Be happy working for capitalists and having no stake? Starve? Or should we grab a molitov cocktail and hit the streets immediately to

Re: Mark Jones archive

2004-07-15 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/15/2004 2:54:17 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Now that I have a bit less family and work pressure on me, I am gettingback to a project I began about a year ago. I am pulling together MarkJones's writings on the Internet, plus some written

Re: absolute general law of capitalist accumulation

2004-07-14 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/14/2004 9:03:49 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Modern industry never views or treats the existing form of a production process as the definitive one. Its technical basis is therefore revolutionary, whereas all earlier modes of

Re: The End Of Management?

2004-07-14 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/14/2004 2:21:54 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: TIME.com: The End Of Management? -- Jul. 12, 2004 http://www.time.com/time/insidebiz/article/0,9171,1101040712-660965,00.html The article states: The end of management just might look

Re: absolute general law of capitalist accumulation

2004-07-13 Thread Waistline2
A spectre is haunting the developed world - the spectre of the Limits to Growth. All the makers of accepted opinion have combined to exorcise this spectre: market analysts, editorialists, news anchors, economists. But the spectre remains as the economy's problems grow. We are now about to

Re: Klebnikov

2004-07-11 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/11/2004 1:20:45 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It's a useful corollorary (?) of social network theory that almost all badlads are joined up together, via a smallish number of "connected node"individuals. The North Korean government's forged

Re: Klebnikov

2004-07-11 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/11/2004 3:13:15 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Cynical jaded New Yorker wants to know: When you lend someone counterfeit money, are you still doing that person a good turn? Should expect repayment, with interest? In real or counterfeit

Re: Klebnikov

2004-07-11 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/11/2004 5:02:03 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Galbraith referred to it as "the bezzle" -- the increment to national wealth during that period when the conman knows he has got the mark's money, but the mark is as yet not aware that he has been

Re: counterfeit currency

2004-07-11 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/11/2004 5:48:40 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It is my understanding the biggest counterfeiter of currency is the world today is the US government. Is not fiat money counterfeit by definition? no. in a system of fiat money, the state defines

Re: Fw: [stop-imf] Africa should not pay its debts - Jeffrey Sachs

2004-07-10 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/10/2004 12:27:28 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sachs has always been basically a man of the left, and has been saying sensible things about sovereign default fo longer than anyone else I can remember (including me and Richard Portes). Perhaps the

Re: Fw: [stop-imf] Africa should not pay its debts - Jeffrey Sachs

2004-07-10 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/10/2004 1:11:33 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Really? That's quite an aberration-- participating in the dismantling ofthe Russian Revolution, transforming the remnants of socialized propertyinto private fortunes. And now Sachs got religion?

Re: An editorial worth repeating

2004-07-09 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/9/2004 1:53:58 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That reminds me. I've been meaning to research how Hitler came to power.You have to remember that the German SP was the ABB of its day, exceptthat it was ABH instead. They kept backing lesser evils

Re: China and the American consumer

2004-07-05 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/4/2004 1:13:56 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The article itself, like those articles about 20 years ago, have a lot ofthe old "yellow peril" theme.The Chinese economy is about as uneven, ragged, stumbling as you can get and still be upright.

Re: JULY 4, the Vision of Marx and the Theory of the American Revolution -2

2004-07-04 Thread Waistline2
The Revolution of 1776 was big by any estimate. The Revolution of 1776 ushered in something new in human history . . . a whole new epoch of political revolution under the banner of national liberation. National liberation meant more than "me and my country" being liberated from "you

Re: JULY 4 and the Vision of Marx

2004-07-03 Thread Waistline2
Karl Marx was specific concerning his contribution to economic thought, social theory and why social and political revolution takes place in the life of society. Marx and Engels spent an inordinate amount of time and writing riveted to changes in the economic life of society or the

Re: Simon and Garfunkel

2004-07-02 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/2/2004 12:40:40 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: We were just discussing that capitalism is theft, appropriation of value, etc. Now, how did this play out at the concert? There were about 18,000 tickets sold. Let's conservatively say at an

Re: Sowell and the big lie.

2004-07-02 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/2/2004 5:22:00 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Traditional justice, at least in the American tradition, involves treating people the same, holding them to the same standards and having them play by the same rules. Cosmic justice tries to make

Re: Simon and Garfunkel

2004-07-02 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/2/2004 5:54:30 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Let's imagine the crew does all their work. They set up the special sound and light systems, etc. However, Simon and Garfunkel get into a fight and refuse to perform, so the show is cancelled

Re: Sowell and the big lie.

2004-07-02 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/2/2004 6:42:37 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: As Godwin's Law approaches, I am done with the thread. David Shemano Comment I understand . . . but there are times I speak as an insurgent partisan. I would debate Mr. Sowell in front of

Re: Sowell

2004-07-01 Thread Waistline2
The wonders of the Internet. Here is Sowell explaining his shift away from Marxism: http://www.salon.com/books/int/1999/11/10/sowell/index1.htmlDavid Shemano Comment Mr. Sowell is of course no one fool or "boy" . . . and most certainly not an Uncle Tom . . . a characterization

Re: Sowell - follow up

2004-07-01 Thread Waistline2
In a message dated 7/1/2004 8:28:43 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Mr. Sowell is of course no one fool or "boy" . . . and most certainly not an Uncle Tom . . . a characterization that can mean virtually anything depending on usage. Comment - Follow up There

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