Re: Similar Unicode characters
On Sat, 2005-12-31 at 09:19 +0330, Mohsen Saboorian wrote: Is there any other similarities (mainly about Arabic letters) in other languages: e.g. Urdu. Yes, both Pashto and Urdu have such problems. They both use the Persian Kaf (KEHEH), and Pashto uses both the the Arabic Yeh (YEH) and the Persian Yeh (FARSI YEH). Urdu also has an alternative Yeh, YEH BARREE, while Pashto has two additional Yehs, making the number of different Yehs used in the language four or five (depending on if you count the YEH WITH HAMZA or not.) Their situation is worse than Persian, since: 1) Higher level Urdu computing experts are somehow undecided about which codes to use for Kaf. 2) Since Pashto uses both Persian and Arabic Yehs, which look the same in medial form, different computing experts have come to different conclusions about which code to use. See Everson and Pournader, Computer Locale Requirements for Afghanistan, p. 5, available from http://evertype.com/standards/af/ The situation of Kurdish is also interesting, as most Iranian users use the Persian Kaf (at least in typography), while most Iraqi users use the Arabic Kaf. Roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list PersianComputing@lists.sharif.edu http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Mathematics in Persian, feedback needed
On Tue, 2005-10-18 at 18:33 +0330, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: About tg vs tan: for a while, tg, cotg, and cosec were used. Then the academic community switched to tan, cot, and csc but the high school trigonometry textbooks remained with tg and family. After a while, the high school textbooks also switched. Now the common form used in all levels of education is tan and family. Ah, something else. When the tg and family were the default, all such trigonometric operators were typeset in italic type, not roman. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list PersianComputing@lists.sharif.edu http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: DocBook RTL document?
On Thu, 2005-07-21 at 13:28 -0400, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: I have no idea what engine they are using to produce PS or PDF. Well, xmlto uses TeX for that. Sebastian Rahtz's PassiveTeX, IIRC. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list PersianComputing@lists.sharif.edu http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: ALL COMPUTER BOOKS IN THE WORLD
Thanks for the notice. I removed the offending message from the archives. Please make sure you don't quote the problematics parts in your replies next time. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list PersianComputing@lists.sharif.edu http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Persian Javascript Input under Firefox/Mozilla
On Mon, 2005-03-07 at 02:36 -0600, Pooya Karimian wrote: I have put together a javascript code based on Roozbeh Pournader/Behdad Esfahbod code to emulate Persian keyboard layout under Mozilla/Firefox/Internet Explorer. Ah, it was never my code. I don't know how much Behdad worked on it, but the only part I really did was making the keyboard layout compatible with ISIRI 2901. There are also some small changes in the keyboard layout based on Behnam Esfahbod's suggestions. I would appreciate to know the details. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list PersianComputing@lists.sharif.edu http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
The New Alef
There has been a new Alef around for quite a while. For those who don't live in Iran or haven't seen it yet for any reasons, a photo is available at: http://bamdad.org/~roozbeh/alef.jpg It's used on car plates, but the exact usage is disputed among a few friends of mine. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list PersianComputing@lists.sharif.edu http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: The New Alef
On Wed, 2005-02-23 at 07:57 -0600, Connie Bobroff wrote: Quoting Roozbeh Pournader [EMAIL PROTECTED]: There has been a new Alef around for quite a while. Why do you say new? Alef is always written out that way as in numbered lists, Umm..., because they connect the Alef to the Lam at the top and cut the Feh short? I have never seen it like that in a numbered list. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list PersianComputing@lists.sharif.edu http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: FW: Re: Nesef Font
On Mon, 2005-02-21 at 01:15 -0700, Soran M. wrote: Does you Nesf2 font support Kurdish letters also that are not part of the Arabic/Farsi alphabet? No. If not, do you have any plans to do so? Do you have any fonts that support all Kurdish letters and Farsi letters. No, there is no plan to extend Nesf or Nesf2 by the FarsiWeb project in any way, or fix its known bugs. But it is among the long term goals of the FarsiWeb project to add support for other Iranian languages (including Kurdish) to the farsifonts package which currently only supports Persian and Arabic. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list PersianComputing@lists.sharif.edu http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: It seems that kompare have problems in FC3 with UTF-8!
On Tue, 2005-01-18 at 09:03, Hedayat Vatakhah wrote: ITNO GOD Hi everybody, Kompare is a useful program for me. May I ask what is Kompare exactly? roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list PersianComputing@lists.sharif.edu http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: openoffice zwnj
On Sun, 2005-01-02 at 20:45, Mohammad Norouzi wrote: I have a big problem with typing farsi in the OpenOffice when I type zwnj some character like | appear that should not. Is there anyone who has the same problem or know the solution ?? Is that a bug of oppenoffice ? That's a famous bug that will happen in applications. KDE also had that bug for quite a time until Behdad fixed it. The bug is because the application or the rendering engine asks the font for a glyph for the character, where it shouldn't. The application or the rendering engine should not pass ZWNJ (and a few other invisible Unicode characters) down. I don't know if the bug is still present in latest versions of OpenOffice.org, but it won't hurt checking and reporting the bug. Please give me a URL to your bug report when you did it. Roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list PersianComputing@lists.sharif.edu http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian clipart
On Wed, 2004-09-01 at 11:44, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: * Islamic Republic of Iran official emblem, based on the same specification, with a very slight modification to match the emblem in common usage: Questions: What exactly is that slight modification? How is this different from the emblem which was already provided on the FarsiWeb website? roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
[Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Farsi in Max OS X]]
-Forwarded Message- From: Michael Everson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Roozbeh Pournader [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Fwd: Farsi in Max OS X] Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2004 17:54:27 +0100 At 19:18 +0430 2004-07-06, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: Your friend could try AbiWord 2.1.2 for OS X http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/14743 It is free and is multi-platform and OpenSource. -Forwarded Message- From: Kit Spence [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Farsi in Max OS X Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2004 15:48:02 +0430 I am doing some work in Afghanistan and would like to be able to generate content in Dari on my Mac laptop running OS 10.3.4 So far it appears that I cannot use Office X or Filemaker 5.5 and generate Dari due to those applications not supporting unicode fonts. Does anyone have any advice in this matter? If I upgrade to Filemaker 7.7 and Office 2004, will those applications recognize unicode and will I require additional fonts? Thank you for any help that can be provided. ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Persian UTF-8 MySql collation
On Tue, 2004-06-29 at 19:41, C Bobroff wrote: If you're talking about sorting, it was recently pointed out (see archives) that Windows server 2003 can sort Persian properly. I would appreciate if someone can volunteer to run a test data set FarsiWeb has on it. I'm 100% sure they won't support Hamzas or Harakat properly. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Persian UTF-8 MySql collation
You can do proper Persian sorting using either glibc (available in all GNU/Linux distributions), or ICU (available from http://oss.software.ibm.com/icu/). There is no other software known to the community that does Persian Unicode software properly without using either of those. roozbeh On Thu, 2004-06-24 at 21:15, Peter Cruickshank wrote: Hello I'm a new subscriber to the list, so please forgive me if I'm asking an old question. I did look at the archives for last few months though and didn't see any discussion of this issue: The subject kind of explains it all - I'm part of a team adapting an open source MySql based content management system (Back-End - www.back-end,org) to work with Persian content. A big stumbling block is getting UTF-8 collation working. We don't want to be reinventing wheels here - so it would be great to hear if someone has already built a UTF-8 collation file and is willing to share it? Any help or pointers will be greatly appreciated! Thanks Peter ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: [Persian Locale d6 Feedback] Short Format Dates
Hooman, There is this application called Unibook that may help you NOT write the software for browsing the database. Depends on your needs of course: http://www.unicode.org/unibook/ roozbeh On Sat, 2004-06-26 at 06:38, Hooman Mehr wrote: Hi Behdad, On Jun 26, 2004, at 1:50 AM, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: I'm confused now. What do you expect in PropList.txt about U+060D? If you read UCD.html, it says that files like PropList.txt just list those code points that hold a true value for the binary property. Why they don't list the all?? Why should the do? There are more than a million of them, while poins of interest are usually less than a thousand ones... behdad You are right, that was my mistake. I had some wrong perceptions about U+060D that made me believe it would belong there. I am starting to feel I need to import all those data files into a database for quick reference. I am getting tired of having to find information scattered across so many different places (book, charts and various data files) I still feel there should be a better way for organizing all the information in Unicode. - Hooman ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Personal names survey
On Mon, 2004-06-21 at 04:34, C Bobroff wrote: On Sat, 19 Jun 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: we are *specifying* a single way to do things. Why the 2 calendars then? Behdad gave some reason. The other is: because there may be other restrictions. So we are practically saying if you want to do it vertical, do it this way, if you want to do it horizontal, do it that way. If you don't care about horizontal or vertical, we will give you a preferred way. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Personal names survey
On Sat, 2004-06-19 at 00:32, C Bobroff wrote: I'm so glad you also now see that to *forbid* marking ezaafe in personal names is absurd. Connie, Please! You really don't see the point? We are not documenting practice in the locale spec, we are *specifying* a single way to do things. People are very welcome to ignore the specification and do whatever they like to do, if they don't claim they follow it. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: khatt e Farsi
On Fri, 2004-06-18 at 21:49, Peyman wrote: After resolving this issue, I try to go through the nice draft and give my suggestions if any. We would appreciate suggestions, independent of whether this issue gets resolved or not. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: [Persian Locale d6 Feedback] Short Format Dates
On Sat, 2004-06-19 at 18:41, Hooman Mehr wrote: [...] The best solution in my opinion is to provide exact format strings (as arrays of Unicode characters with specific placeholders for date elements). This will avoid any possible ambiguity in the specification. That will be specified in a coming appendix, which will have the locale data for ICU and GNU C library. Anyway, the situation is worse than what you may guess. The Unicode Consortium has changed the bidirectional category of a few characters, including Slash, in Unicode 4.0.1. For Slash and its brethren, it's not just Neutral or things like that. We are having stuff like European Terminators and Common Separators in the Unicode Bidi algorithm. I sincerely hope that you won't tell me that you expect the users to type 1383 then / then 1 then / then 12 to enter a date in short format, because it would be unnatural and none obvious (although currently it may be the only way to get a correct result with the available software applications). I'm not implying anything about users here. We are specifying how the final text should be displayed. We have not specified how to encode it (of course that doesn't mean one is allowed to encode it however he likes). If we do that, we may not remain conforming to Unicode if Unicode changes yet another bidirectional category in a later version. As I have seen, you have defended going back to using the correct yeh and correcting the faulty software/fonts, so I hope you choose the right thing to do this time as well. I always do the right thing, don't I? ;-) Alright I know, you may say: It is impossible any other way! What is the solution? I say: the answer is too technical to be included in the locale specification. There will be different answers for different situations, in different contexts, or in different Unicode versions. BTW, Behdad is attending the Unicode Consortium's Technical Committee meeting right now, and later the ISO JTC1/SC2 ones. I'm sure the UTC meeting (which will be the first with a FarsiWeb member present) will have good news for us (which may include more changes and clarifications to the Bidirectional algorithm). roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Locale requirement of Persian in Iran, first public draft
On Mon, 2004-06-14 at 23:39, Ali A Khanban wrote: Well, that has the same author(!), so it doesn't count. I believe national requirements of a government counts, whoever the author. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Locale requirement of Persian in Iran, first public draft
I don't know how you got to the page, but it is about the the Arabic *language* in Iran. The (almost) correct Persian page is at: http://oss.software.ibm.com/cgi-bin/icu/lx/en_US/?_=fa_IR (which is done partially by me.) roozbeh On Tue, 2004-06-15 at 05:01, Ali A. Khanban wrote: Hi, Have a look at: http://oss.software.ibm.com/cgi-bin/icu/lx/en_US/?_=ard_=en_US_r=IR; Maybe we need to submit the draft version to correct this. Anyway, as long as there is a note, it should be OK to refer to script as Arabic, though I still prefer something like Perso-Arabic. Best -ali- C Bobroff wrote: On Mon, 14 Jun 2004, Ali A Khanban wrote: Well, that has the same author(!), so it doesn't count. Do a google search for pashto perso-arabic to see that many authors think Pashto is written in the Perso-Arabic script. Then do a google search for pashto arabic script and you'll see with just a quick glance that most further explain that it is *modified* Arabic script or called *Perso-Arabic.* If you're writing in English, you'd better not say simply Arabic script. -Connie ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Personal names survey
On Sun, 2004-06-13 at 04:52, C Bobroff wrote: You have! You just didn't notice. You also put them (i.e. pronounce the ezaafe) in personal names when speaking which you also don't notice. Like in feredrish-e niche, or reymond-e kaarver? ;) roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
OT: On computing, in Persian
The Shargh newspaper has a weird article about Linux and GNU. It's off-topic here (it's in Persian and on Computing, just that), but it used a really weird language that may be interesting for some members here. It also mentions a few ideas about localization at the end. It's titled Linux is a User of Philosophy: http://www.sharghnewspaper.com/830323/idea.htm#s68703 The credit to find it goes to Hamed Malek (a silent lurker here). I don't read the andishe page in Shargh. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Locale requirement of Persian in Iran, first public draft
On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 21:03, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: They all call it Latin Script (khatte laatin), right? BTW, while khatte laatin is OK, khatte laatini is preferred. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: khaate farsi
On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 21:46, Peyman wrote: The attached .jpg is a text from the book pishineye zabane farsi written by Dr. Safavi. The text speaks about styles, not scripts. In other words, the text you forwarded is one level lower in the tree. In other words, the Arabic script may be written in different styles, Kufi, Naskhi, Suls, Nastaliq, ... The Persian that Dr Safavi specifies is in that classification. PS: Sorry if the jpg quality is not good because the list doesn't accept files bigger than 40KB You can put them somewhere on the web and send a URL for files larger than 40KB. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: khaat e Farsi
On Thu, 2004-06-10 at 10:26, Hooman Mehr wrote: If we don't like the Arabic word, we may substitute something like Islamic and call it Islamic Script. I don't mean to give it any religious weight, but just substituting the physical origin (Arabia) by culture that carried along this script into our country and a lot of other countries and caused a single writing system to become a family of closely related writing systems. Well, usually the script is religion-based. Currently, Latin usually means christian or secular, Cyrillic means communist, Arabic means Muslim, Hebrew means Jewish, ... But sorry, we don't want to invent anything here. I suggest Roozbeh ask more expert (linguist) opinion to see if they have a Persian term for the above concept -- at least within their professional linguist circles. Already done. They prefer to call this the Arabic script, to differentiate it with writing the language in the Latin script, for example. BTW, experts don't necessary mean linguists here. There are also the adibs, which sometimes have different opinions. Some of the adibs may prefer khatt-e faarsi, I'm sure. This confusion among some potential audience of the document also indicates that you may need to add a footnote to explain the meaning of Arabic Script as intended in the locale document. Thanks to the finding of Ali Khanban, we will put that footnote, also referring to the text of the constitution and clarifying the context. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Farsi vs Persian (Re: khaat e Farsi)
On Thu, 2004-06-10 at 12:32, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Don't know why, but it reminds me of the Persian vs. Farsi problem... BTW, I just got my hand on the proceedings of The First Workshop on Persian Language and Computer, which took place on May 25 and 26 in the Faculty of Literature and Humanities of Tehran University. Most of the articles contain the word faarsi in the Persian title, and not a single one of the 58 refers to it as Farsi in the English title. They all call it Persian. This is good news. Almost no one is *that* ignorant. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
OT: GNOME/GNU (was Re: Mirroring in Unicode)
our target system (GNOME/GNU/Linux) GNOME is a GNU project, of course. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: khaat e Farsi
On Fri, 2004-06-11 at 20:31, C Bobroff wrote: I believe Roozbeh, while typing the document was attempting to translate Perso-Arabic script into Persian. Not an easy job. No, I was translating Arabic script into Persian. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: khaat e Farsi
On Fri, 2004-06-11 at 09:01, Peyman wrote: Conclusion: You can say that the origin of our alphabet is Arabic but you can not claim that our writing system is Arabic. Our writing system is Persian khaat e farsi. It is what my teacher Dr. Safavi as a linguist says in his book and what I also say as a linguist. Well, I wish to emphasize that our writing system should be described as Arabic in certain contexts, like when used in internationalized computer systems. Since you are a linguist, I wish to refer you to a linguistic text, Daniels and Bright's The World's Writing Systems, Oxford University Press, 1996, ISBN 0195079930. Please read Section 50, Arabic Writing. Dr Bateni proposed a minor change to our writing system long ago in order to better serve the Persian language; and they ignored him and fired him from the Tehran university because of political and religious red lines. Please provide details. Linguistic details, at least. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: khaat e Farsi
On Sat, 2004-06-12 at 19:04, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: Since you are a linguist, I wish to refer you to a linguistic text, Daniels and Bright's The World's Writing Systems, Oxford University Press, 1996, ISBN 0195079930. Please read Section 50, Arabic Writing. ... and section 62, Adaptation of Arabic Script. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Locale requirement of Persian in Iran, first public draft
On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 08:42, C Bobroff wrote: No kidding, you really typed all those Hamzeh's all by yourself?? Yes. Why are you wondering? Do you agree that sometimes you say, behdaad-e esfahbod and other times you say, behdaad esfahbod? (Note, I said *say*, not *write* for now.) Yes. And my next question is going to be, when? I'm not sure. It really depends on the mood or the speed of speaking. That should keep you busy for a while! You were wrong. ;) roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: IRI funded projects like Persian Linux (Was Re: something else)
On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 09:37, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Come on. This is one of those tricks of yours ;-). Ah, I really didn't get you. I mean how many people you have seen *interested* in doing Open Source and left without warning... Many. But I can't generalize such a rule to *every* case. I don't get all this NGO thing. The money it comes from oil, passing a handful of hops, divided by two a handful of times... Ah. Let's get away from this. I understand your position, and I don't disagree with it, but let me be hopeful. It may be more productive for a little while. BTW, their patched Pango is next to useless to me, since there's no patch provided, no information about when they did check out Pango, etc. Roozbeh, can you ask them for a set of patches instead? Mehran Mehr and Soheil Hassas Yegane are members of this list. I hope they'll answer. I can probably help feeding the patches to Owen Taylor. All but one of the patches are already in Pango. The other patch was something Owen didn't like and said he'll do in another way. It's in his TODO for next minor release of Pango. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Persian-English Dictionary -- Was: Iranian Mac User group
On Mon, 2004-06-07 at 22:50, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Over our dead body! The whole world is still to solve that cursor movement problem, and you expect... I expect to solve that ourselves (say, FarsiWeb and FriBidi teams), at least for the perspective of Persian and Iranian users. Is it *that* hard? We don't need to pass over our own dead bodies. They will fund, we will solve their problem. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Locale requirement of Persian in Iran, first public draft
On Tue, 2004-06-08 at 07:41, C Bobroff wrote: On Mon, 7 Jun 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: http://www.farsiweb.info/locale/locale-0.6.pdf Congratulations on getting a new typist who is not allergic to Hamzeh's! It's the same old one. Roozbeh Pournader himself. But where did all the Kasreh's marking Ezafeh's go this time? And why no ZWNJ on plural -Ha's? I tried doing it in the Academy's style, since we referring to the Persian Academy's style as normative. I personally hate that, and so do most of FarsiWeb staff, but we needed to be compliant here. Call that an experience... The Academy's style only puts kasre-ye ezaafes when there is a clear ambiguity. And it writes -haa without a ZWNJ. Is that really true you aren't supposed to put a written Kasreh after given names? I know it's definitely not ok (spoken or written) with Rezaa ending in long aa but with Mohsen ending in a consonant? I believe it is common to both write and pronounce the -e there between given and family name. Please inform me. Please note that the specification doesn't discuss pronunciations at all. That only happens in one case (toman), where it better serves as a footnote. At the same time, the Academy doesn't like the Kasras, so... If that doesn't answer your question, please ask it in a different way ;) By the way, I have received a PDF file from Iran recently in Persian and it was possible to copy and paste from the PDF text into Notepad and all the letters came out perfectly, only the letters were running backwards from left to right. I can't seem to copy and paste with yours. It ends up in garbage characters. Wish I knew these PDF secrets! I don't know what may be the problem. I would be enlightened if you tell about PDF tricks you may know that can solve that kind of problems. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: [History] My Story, part 1 (1236 words)
On Tue, 2004-06-08 at 10:08, Hooman Mehr wrote: The spelling used by Roozbeh is the official spelling used on someone's passport -- if he does not insist otherwise. I'm very sorry. I forgot that you spell it with oo. I insisted on Hooman spelling and got it even on my passport. So do I, with Roozbeh (but not with Pournader, which I prefer the way it is). roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Persian-English Dictionary -- Was: Iranian Mac User group
On Tue, 2004-06-08 at 13:44, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: So don't say it this way that they are doing this great project which will save the humanity blah blah... You still get excited by those words? I am excited, since I saw some output from the people involved: A commercial probabilistic English to Persian translation engine, a tagged corpus of pronunciations for lots of standard Persian, an OCR that worked wonderfully for handwritten disjoint Persian letters, and a script that inserted all the kasre-ye ezaafes automatically (which worked not only on whole sentences, but even on things like book titles). Let's just say this: Isn't a database of famous people and places' names and their Persian translation not exciting if released as Open Source, something that tells you Democritus is zimeghraatis and Casablanca is daar ol-beyzaa? Specially if someone already has it? I get excited when I see people who have done something that stays with us. I get excited when they mention they'll be doing everything Open Source without anybody pushing them. And it was not only me. IRI is IRI, period. Does that make everybody living in IRI a fool?! By the way, yes, it IS that hard, the cursor problem at least. I know. But it's not something unsolvable by the FarsiWeb team, at least theoretically. You don't agree?! roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Locale requirement of Persian in Iran, first public draft
On Tue, 2004-06-08 at 18:15, Ali A Khanban wrote: Th attachment should be a type, I guess. Yes, it is a typo. Does that mean we should send our comments only to the above email and not to this list? That means we appreciate it if it is sent to that email address. You're welcome to discuss any on-topic matter on the list of course. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Persian-English Dictionary -- Was: Iranian Mac User group
On Tue, 2004-06-08 at 18:24, Ordak D. Coward wrote: What is the cursor problem exactly? Have you tried typing multilingual text in an editor like MS Windows' Notepad? The cursor, the selection, etc, are very hard to handle easily. You'll get mad very soon. And why is it hard to solve? Because: 1) You need to remain Unicode compliant w.r.t bidi algorithm. 2) You need to edit everything, from normal text to marked up XML or LaTeX, and expected behavior is different with different kinds of text. 3) Different users have different expectations, so you need lots of configurability for different kind of users in different locales. Is there an FAQ on open problems in Persian Computing? No. Unless you start one. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Persian-English Dictionary -- Was: Iranian Mac User group
On Tue, 2004-06-08 at 19:19, Masoud Sharbiani wrote: Roozbeh, is it possible to create a wiki for persian computing? That is *planned* for FarsiWeb's website. I'm sure Behnam Esfahbod and Elnaz Sarbar will announce here the good news about the new FarsiWeb website, when it became ready. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
[Fwd: New versions of the Common Locale Data Repository (CLDR 1.1)]
-Forwarded Message- From: Rick McGowan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: New versions of the Common Locale Data Repository (CLDR 1.1) Date: Tue, 08 Jun 2004 09:03:48 -0700 The Unicode Consortium announced today the release of new versions of the Common Locale Data Repository (CLDR 1.1) and the Locale Data Markup Language specification (LDML 1.1), providing key building blocks for software to support the world's languages. This new release contains data for 247 locales, covering 78 languages and 118 countries. There are also 36 draft locales in the process of being developed, covering an additional 17 languages and 7 countries. For more information, see http://news.google.com/news?q=CLDR Regards, Rick McGowan Unicode, Inc. ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Persian-English Dictionary -- Was: Iranian Mac User group
On Mon, 2004-06-07 at 08:20, C Bobroff wrote: I just thought the typist had used MS Word, then exported to Excel and then to some publishing program. I'm sure both MS Word and MS Excel would crash under the weight of so much text. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Persian-English Dictionary -- Was: Iranian Mac User group
On Mon, 2004-06-07 at 08:26, C Bobroff wrote: That would be a problem. However, the bad entries can be edited out as they are discovered. Who is to decide about what is bad? Are we professional linguists or dictionary writers? roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Locale requirement of Persian in Iran, first public draft
I am glad to announce the availability of the first public draft of the specification of locale requirements of Persian for Iran. The text tries to specify the general requirements of internationalized software for the Persian language of Iran. It's available from: http://www.farsiweb.info/locale/locale-0.6.pdf Please note that this is a draft, and needs your comments in order to get improved and corrected. FarsiWeb's plan is to keep this a living and maintained document. For feedback or comments, please email us at [EMAIL PROTECTED], or call us at +98 21 602-2372. You can also write to us at the following address: Sharif FarsiWeb, Inc. PO Box 13445-389 Tehran, Iran Also, please note that the documentation is published under a free documentation license. For the exact details, see the text of the license (and contact us or your lawyer in case of ambiguities, we are able to explain the license or relicense the text in certain conditions), but I wish to mention in short that the text is copyrighted, and free documentation doesn't mean that you are allowed to do anything you like with the text. You are allowed to use the information you learn for any purpose of course, including using them in proprietary software. The project has been funded and supported by the High Council of Informatics of Iran, and the Computing Center of Sharif University of Technology. We also wish to thank the Persian Linux project for helping in the funding. I wish to thank Hamed Malek, Behnam Esfahbod, Houman Mehr, Elnaz Sarbar, Behdad Esfahbod, Meelad Zakaria, Mehran Mehr, and the PersianComputing community for their advice and contributions to the work. But as the main contributor, every fault should only be blamed on me. Roozbeh Pournader Sharif FarsiWeb, Inc. ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Persian-English Dictionary -- Was: Iranian Mac User group
On Mon, 2004-06-07 at 18:55, C Bobroff wrote: Who said they didn't break it up into smaller files? And managed all the numbering and sorting and all that by hand? roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Persian-English Dictionary -- Was: Iranian Mac User group
On Mon, 2004-06-07 at 19:24, Masoud Sharbiani wrote: Yeah, that and the fact that you really should have TONS of memory if you want to have it all in one file, plus a dual processor (2000+ Mhz) machine ;-) And even then, the quality will be incomparable with something typeset with, say, TeX-e-Parsi. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Persian-English Dictionary -- Was: Iranian Mac User group
On Mon, 2004-06-07 at 21:20, C Bobroff wrote: Now, do you have any more questions before [hopefully] heading off to bed? OK, my mom just called. She was a little upset. ;-) BTW, wait for the news from the next cool thing, called tarh-e jaame'-e gostaresh-e kaarbari-e zabaan-e faarsi. The guys involved are wonderful (incomparable to any other such meetings I've attended), and they are planning to create things much better than your Sokhan Dictionary in the process, like a Persian equivalent of the Collins Cobuild dictionary. And at the same time, things like, let's say, a Unicode compliant text editor whose cursor doesn't jump around unexpectedly, and a standard about how to markup synchronous text, speech, and translations and then a tool to convert it to a web page (like what Connie does sometimes manually). And guess what? All the output will be Open Source! Keep a look here for saner announcements. I need to rush home. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Persian-English Dictionary -- Was: Iranian Mac User group
On Mon, 2004-06-07 at 21:43, Masoud Sharbiani wrote: I bet you've never used MSFT word, have you? I had to use it for the reports/thesis I did at Sharif (circa 1997-8). There is this feature called 'Master Document' that is basically a binder for all kinds of word files, and can handle the chapter/page numbering and such. (I am talking about Word 6.0, the later versions should still have this feature). I use MS Word 2003 regularly. It's bad and sad, I can't have good change control with it, and I need to boot into MS Windows to use it, but it's working fine. I can't get fancy typesetting or automatic index generation with it, but it's generally OK for something like a report or a specification. But I won't try typesetting books in it. Even TeX-e-Parsi wasn't enough when I last typeset a book. It choked when I was using an automatically generated table of contents with a multiple numbering scheme for pages and non-standard footnotes. I needed to prepare the table of contents in a special separate run. I was not talking about small documents. I was talking about typesetting a whole seven-volume dictionary, with complex text and requirements. Fortunately, I have a good pen now. I just use it to write :-) But unfortunately, you've forgotten where that Meem thing was on the Persian keyboard, Huh? roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Nazanin
On Sun, 2004-06-06 at 09:53, C Bobroff wrote: For making documents to print on paper or to be used as graphics, your best bet is still Borna Rayaneh: http://www.bornaray.com/en_fonts.asp?fn=per_fontsrfn=en_fontsparent=fontslistGrand=Main I really believe that the current FarsiWeb fonts are much better than Borna ones in standards conformance and quality. The variety is less, of course. Note: these fonts are in the beta-testing stage and are not perfect yet even though the Farsiweb staff has hundreds of thousands of staff members on the job. (Just kidding, I think there are 2 or 3 people total??) Less than that. Staff were working on that, but the fonts will not be changed much more. Apart from fixing bugs (that Behnam Esfahbod and I will do), there is some legal cleanup, adding history, etc. The greatest mystery of all: How can it be that the Iranian community in the United States which is the richest and most prosperous immigrant community of all has not bothered to get together and have a proper Persian font made and instead are waiting for Microsoft to provide it? Maybe them not spending for such projects has made them the richest? ;) roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Persian-English Dictionary -- Was: Iranian Mac User group
On Sat, 2004-06-05 at 20:41, Pedram Safari wrote: The problem with encoding Persian into computer is rather fundamental though, as there is no standard yet, not even for use in every-day life, You raise a valid point, but please note that this is not about encoding, but about *orthography*. Every publisher has the same problems, even if he doesn't use a computer to typeset his text. Please see a very well written article by Dr Masoumi-Hamedani in a recent issue of Nashr-e Danesh for this matter (don't have the exact reference). We can try to scan the article and post the link to the list. BTW, Dr Masoumi-Hamedani has changed his stance on the matter recently, it seems. I heard this from him last Monday, but he didn't have the time to elaborate on the matter then. I can't get his exact opinion either, since he should be in France now and he's not coming back until about two months later, it seems. for example Hezareh, as it has more diversity in selecting word equivalents, and is more comprehensive. I agree that Hezareh is a good superset of Aryanpour. But the equivalents Persian terms are not always as good as Bateni. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Persian-English Dictionary -- Was: Iranian Mac User group
On Sun, 2004-06-06 at 10:04, C Bobroff wrote: On Sat, 5 Jun 2004, Roozbeh Pournader wrote: There are many claims that this doesn't add anything to the Mo'in Persian dictionary, How is that possible when it's physically twice as big? Well, I was not talking literally. Doesn't add *much* may be better wording. The claim is that the work is based on Moin's heavily, and the new parts are not comparable in quality to Moin's work, with wrong etymologies, bad definitions, etc. And now Pedram informs us it has a different approach, namely *definitions* rather than *synonyms*. I can't confirm the definition vs synonyms part. I need to go ask, or check. I don't have either Moin's or Sokhan. We use Sadri-Afshar's Farhang-e Faarsi-e Emrooz mainly in FarsiWeb, since it has the modern sense of the words (but is sometimes inadequate, specially when decoding legal texts). Waste is what's in our favor here! Sokhan stands to lose no money if they just hand over the data and all rights. I don't agree. I believe the publisher has long time commercial interest in this (and won't be able to understand that this will actually help his sales, too). It will be good publicity for them! It will be. I'm sure it has a million defects. For example, I found one word ghash-gir meaning book-end and tried to use that on my Iranian friends but they'd never heard of it. (I'm not sure if the word was incorrect or you don't have book-ends in Iran! You know, the support you put at the end of your shelf to keep your books from toppling over...) Don't test these things on those Iranian friends next time, then. They seem to not have heard many other things also ;-) BTW, the word is the only one I know for a book-end. And no, I personally don't use the thing because my shelfs are always more than full, but that thing is clearly called ghash-gir if someone knows the device and its name. I don't know any other Persian word for it. I don't know if all the modern words have been approved by the Academy. No one cares for that, in a dictionary. A good dictionary should have all the Academy-approved words, but it should list all the words in usage, approved by the slow Academy or not. Dictionaries get superceded rapidly ... Not in Iran. Even if we want to be inclusive, there are only a few usable Persian dictionaries: Dehkhoda's, Sokhan, Amid's, Moin's, and Emrooz. That's all! And the only ones that *may* get updated are Sokhan and Emrooz. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Misinformation!
On Fri, 2004-06-04 at 18:03, Ordak D. Coward wrote: Behdad, does Unicode consortium provide a search collation table in addition to the collation table used for sorting? Or can the same table be used for this seach purposes as well? Well, I'm not Behdad, but I guess I have some answers. The first answer is: no, the Unicode Consortium doesn't provide any collation table for sorting. The second answer is: Yes, you can use the same table for searching. For example, you can use the data to ignore secondary and tertiary differences in you string comparison for a loose matching. But please note that the table is just there for the cases that you don't know anything about the locale. For Persian, the table needs to be tailored heavily. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Misinformation!
On Thu, 2004-06-03 at 20:04, Ordak D. Coward wrote: Is there a trustworhty easy-to-read document somewhere on the Internet that mentions all this issues that I can refer people to it? I don't know easy to read may mean. Perhaps Connie's pages are the best for that. For the more technical type, there is always ISIRI 6219. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Persian-English Dictionary -- Was: Iranian Mac User group
On Fri, 2004-06-04 at 07:46, C Bobroff wrote: Now,I wonder if some of you who are so experienced technically could do another dictionary project? At least as far as getting the data up in a legal way and then others could make the interface according to the needs of the target audience and connect with English and other languages. For example, I think this very nice dictionary is a complete waste as it is available only in printed form in unmanageable 8 volumes: AUTHOR Anvari, Hasan TITLEFarhang-e bozorg-e Sokhan / beh sarparasti-e Hasan Anvari PUBL INFOTehran : Sokhan, 1381 [2002] ISBN 9646961983 (set) It is in very clear typesetting, has latin transliteration, many idioms (estellah), examples of how to use in sentences, new words, dialect variations, etc. There are many claims that this doesn't add anything to the Mo'in Persian dictionary, and is a real waste of paper and shelf space. I've heard oral critiques by Dr Masoumi-Hamedani (head of the Persian Academy's Language and Computer group) and Mr Pourmomtaz (a linguist, and the head of tarh-e jaame'-e kaarbari-e zabaan-e faarsi). I'm not into the game of ethymology etc, but can ask the people who claimed such for more details, if you insist. I'm sure this dictionary must have been funded by the Iranian government and no profits expected. This was funded by a private publisher, as far as I know. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Miscellaneous web issues
On Thu, 2004-06-03 at 21:08, Ehsan Akhgari wrote: I did this, and installed the new DLL on my system, and it works beatifully. It's the same keyboard layout, only Shift+Space inserts a ZWNJ instead of a space. I thought I would submit it to sourceforge so that everyone can use the new tool. Roozbeh, let me know if it would be okay for me to send the files to you to get them into the sourceforge, or if I should do something else. I would appreciate if you send me the exact process you used and the DLL, so we can publish it on the FarsiWeb website on SourceForge. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: LeapYears of Iranian Calendar
On Tue, 2004-05-25 at 01:40, Ordak D. Coward wrote: I downloaded and tested a few dates with the Win32 executable of Jalali (the one at sourceforge). The bad news is that, the conversion is not correct. The conversion is wrong for 20 March 2005, and similarly a few other dates that should convert to 30 Esfand Year YYLP, instead all such dates convert either to 1 Farvardin YYLP or 1 Esfand YYLP, depending on how the date os set to 20 March 2005. The good news is that, the jalali.c source does convert such dates correctly. Thanks for telling us. We forgot to update the MS Windows executable. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: LeapYears of Iranian Calendar
On Tue, 2004-05-25 at 05:03, Ordak D. Coward wrote: Farsiweb should prepare -- if that is in the scope of FarsiWeb's work -- a draft of a recommended practice for implementing date conversion involving calendars used in Iran. This document will of course change over time, as long as better conversion methods are derived. This is in the interest of FarsiWeb, but we don't have the time currently. It seems that you have done some deep looking into the subject. Why don't you write it? I'm sure you can write it from a better perspective, and both the FarsiWeb staff and the PersianComputing community can provide you with comments. Both FarsiWeb and Connie can provide hosting or links, I'm sure. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Miscellaneous web issues
On Tue, 2004-05-25 at 17:43, Ehsan Akhgari wrote: Well, maybe you're right, but I don't see how a text editor is supposed to know the encoding of a file without some kind of mark. Does Latin-1 (an old encoding of text files for Western Europe, also called ISO 8859-1) had a mark to distinguish it from, say, CP1256 (an old MS encoding for Arabic language)? Did ASCII have a mark? No. Text files are text files. They are not supposed to have marks to distinguish their character set. The character set of a text file should be in the metadata (file name, file system, environment variable, HTTP header, MIME header, ...) or it should be auto-detected (UTF-8 is really easy to detect, since it has a very regular mathematical pattern, UTF-16 is also easy to detect, since it's recommended that it has a BOM), or it should be specified by the user when he is opening a file. Plain text files have no means of identifying the character encoding, That is somehow true. Plain text files have *sometimes* no means of identifying the character encoding *by themselves*. so a single text file can be interpreted as UTF-7, UTF-8, UTF-16, UTF-32, etc. if there's nothing to declare the exact character encoding used. UTF-7 is deprecated. UTF-16 and UTF-32 *do* have BOM marks in the standards defining them, so it's OK if they use a BOM. UTF-8 doesn't have that. Nor does ASCII, CP1256, Latin-1, etc. The point here is that, protocols which do not allow BOM are those who provide other means of specifying the character encoding. The point is that Notepad doesn't add a mark to Latin-1 or CP1256, why should it add one to UTF-8?! A certain byte stream can have multiple interpretations depending on what content encoding you use to interpret it, and there must be some way to cut off this confusion. Yes, by either Metadata, auto-detection, or specific selection. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: IranL10nInfo
On Sun, 2004-05-16 at 16:02, Omid K. Rad wrote: I don't have many calendars in hand here, but when I was in Iran I found many calendars that use 'Amordad' instead of 'Mordad'. I took a photo of the only Iranian calendar I have here for you too see an instance. Ah, that's an Eghbal calendar. They compute the calendar themselves and specially have certain calendars for astrology uses. I won't consider that an authoritative calendar. Anyway, since we are going to recommend one thing, FarsiWeb will stick with mordaad in written form. We understand the problems, but it looks unavoidable. I will personally try to raise the issue in the next Persian Academy meeting I attend. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Miscellaneous web issues
On Tue, 2004-05-18 at 23:13, Ehsan Akhgari wrote: and Notepad is not an HTML editor What is notepad? A text editor? Text editors should not insert a UTF-8 BOM either. The problem is that Microsoft sometimes invents non-standard things and then pushes it so hard that Unicode adds it to parts of the standard (or an FAQ). Microsoft conventions for .txt files in the Unicode FAQ looks sarcastic to me. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar (P.S.)
On Wed, 2004-05-19 at 10:25, C Bobroff wrote: Is there any way to type a hyphen that will resist break-up during wrapping? Use the Insert | Symbol menu in MS Word for lots of other things also, copyright symbols, non-breaking spaces, longer dashes, ... roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar (P.S.)
On Wed, 2004-05-19 at 14:05, Hooman Mehr wrote: The fact that Iranian authorities in this regard act as if they are directly appointed by God is another story... Don't get hot, please. roozbeh PS: Where is this admin hat? I left it just here last time! :'-( roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Miscellaneous web issues
On Thu, 2004-05-20 at 01:48, C Bobroff wrote: Roozbeh, is it not time to remove the experimental from its name? No. This has not become a national standard yet. When it becomes a national standard (and possibly changing a little at the time), we'll remove experimental from the name. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Miscellaneous web issues
On Thu, 2004-05-20 at 16:07, Ehsan Akhgari wrote: You can re-live its creation here in the archives: http://lists.sharif.edu/pipermail/persiancomputing/2003-June/0 00538.html [snip] Thanks for the links. Seems like a very handy keyboard. BTW, why the Shift-Space combination does not work? Bug in Microsoft keyboard layout creation tool. Use Shift-B temporarily. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: LeapYears of Iranian Calendar
On Mon, 2004-05-24 at 10:28, Ordak D. Coward wrote: Another way to interpret this email is that Birashk's method fails to correctly predict the year 1403, and hence if we use that mehtod, all dates in year 1404 will be off by one day. On the other hand, using the 33 year period mentioned above works fine until year 1468. That's it! I was waiting for someone to raise this. :) roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
On Tue, 2004-05-18 at 04:47, hameed afssari wrote: Microsoft Lunar Hijri calendar is based on Calculation of Saudi Arabian Authority and not Kuwait ... I can't confirm that. Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_calendar where it specifically mentions that: Microsoft uses the Kuwaiti algorithm to convert Gregorian dates to the Islamic ones. It is based on statistical analysis of historical data from Kuwait. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Hooman Mehr (was: Iranian Calendar)
On Wed, 2004-05-19 at 19:46, Hooman Mehr wrote: One more thing, the reason that I may seem talented for story telling is that I am an INFP (http://www.personalitypage.com/INFP.html), so be-warned. Ah, I can't confirm that, since it's too psychological. But Hooman talks a lot! ;) I can't forget him and Mehran Mehr (of CyberMehr) *standing* and talking for around six hours, perhaps to see who resigns first! (And he is wise, deep, and experienced, no one can deny that.) Let me start with my story about Hooman. It was before FarsiWeb was born (it was 1998 or 1997, I guess), when we still worked on FarsiTeX, and we were trying to add a new font to FarsiTeX. A colleague, Hadi Karimi, had found about Hooman and his company, Quartz Computer, and we went and met him there. It was a long and productive session, when we learned about Multiple Master fonts (and how they are different from METAFONTs), Adobe's localization process, The euro conversion and its implication of existing software, Unicode's lack of Subscript Alef for Persian, etc. Hadi got page-size prints of the Azin font, and I got a good perspective of Persian computing issues as Hooman looks at them. And ah, I knew him before that. His name was mentioned in ISIRI 2901 and ISIRI 3342, and he had written the most sensible article in the issue of khabarnaame-ye anformaatik which was about the ISIRI 3342 standard. He clearly mentioned there that ISIRI 3342 doesn't conform to the requirements of the ISO 8859 set of standards, something that I found about its importance years later. I didn't meet him again until 2003, when he came to Sharif trying to find the FarsiWeb people. I was very very busy at the moment, and not knowing him, was trying to get rid of him! When he only told me his name, I canceled everything else I was doing at the moment. It ended a long frustration period of mine which I was thinking there is no person I can learn from in the field who is still in Iran. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
On Mon, 2004-05-17 at 01:41, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: You are self-conflicting yourself. I define consensus as 100% vote of the talking community, and again I say we have reached a consensus here. Take a poll, then. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
On Sun, 2004-05-16 at 00:33, C Bobroff wrote: Can you please be sure to mention in the documentation somewhere also about the Shaahanshaahi calendar and how to convert We don't know that. Exact questions are: when exactly did the calendar become official? And when did it cease to be the official calendar? Can you help in that? roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Iranian Calendar
On Sun, 2004-05-16 at 18:15, Omid K. Rad wrote: In Iran we use the Iranian subtype of the Persian calendar, and in Afghanistan the Jalali subtype is used. I don't get you. Afghanistan clearly doesn't use a Jalali subtype. Their current leap year algorithm is synced with the Gregorian system, so it's far from being a Jalali calendar. Fortunately in .NET it is possible to define subtypes for a calendar system provided that they use the same algorithm but differ in day names, month names, date patterns and so on. This is the whole point: the algorithm is different for Iran and Afghanistan. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
On Sun, 2004-05-16 at 18:56, Hooman Mehr wrote: I think we should avoid solar / lunar designations in the English name to make it more meaningful and less confusing for none-Iranians. I don't agree. One can't reduce confusion by being less specific. People who work on calendars already know that the lunar Islamic calendar is uses different rules in different countries. The Iranian Hejri-e Ghamari calendar is exactly a certain localization of the calendar others have. It's the new name that will create the confusion. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Iranian Calendar
On Mon, 2004-05-17 at 11:55, Hooman Mehr wrote: It comes upwith an initial estimate (or best guess) of the *adjusted* calendarwhich is usually only re-adjusted for Ramadan. ... and Shawwal. This pre-adjustedcalendar is not the same as the basic table in MSDN, nor the mostlyobservational Hijri calendar meant by MSDN and common in Saudi Arabia. The Microsoft Hijri base calendar is acutally based on the Kuwaiti one. I guess I saw it on the Wikipedia, but I can find the reference if it proves to be important. Please note that a good calendar software service in an operatingsystem or application should be able to tell you precisely what wasthe date say 100,000 days ago at a specific location (within the rangeof validity of the calendar, of course) or what date it estimates tobe at a specific location 100,000 days in the future. I don't agree. An operating system rarely allows any date calculation for 270 years into the past or the future. Even for Gregorian. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: Miscellaneous web issues
On Mon, 2004-05-17 at 17:44, Ehsan Akhgari wrote: Those are the BOM marks for UTF-8. Notepad injects them under your nose, and that's one of the reasons I avoid Notepad. Frontpage text editor does not have that problem. A small note: what Notepad does here is *correct*, because it can instruct other editors about the content encoding of the file. It just doesn't work with web documents, and that's expected, because Notepad has not been designed for creating web documents. An important note: what Notepad does here is only acceptable. It's not even recommended. HTML 4 clearly doesn't allow a UTF-8 BOM appear before the HTML tag. Notepad is supposed to be a text editor. A text editor shouldn't insert markup by itself. BTW, ISIRI 6219 strongly discourages the use of a BOM in UTF-8 files. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: IranL10nInfo
On Mon, 2004-05-10 at 00:40, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: On SuHumm, after finishing the sentence, I go back to vote for Jalali! As it avoid binding yet another meaning to the Persian/Iranian word, and we don't have to go on tell everybody that this Farsi Calendar is the same as the Persian Calendar or Iranian Calendar, which in turn used to be known as Jalali Calendar or Jalaali Calendar by MS... Poof, Jalali Calendar is such a cute name, not? It has a serious problem: there already exits a Jalali calendar that is different from this calendar we are talking about. It uses the same leap year rules, but each month is 30 days, with 5 or 6 additional days added at the end [Mosahab Persian Encyclopedia, Vol 1, Page 657, taghvim-e jalaali entry]. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: IranL10nInfo
On Mon, 2004-05-10 at 02:09, Omid K. Rad wrote: I totally agree with you that the name Jalali keeps away all that confusion and debate around Farsi/Persian/Iranian and also Shamsi/Khorshidi. There remains another confusion also: that the Afghan calendar is different from the Iranian one in leap year calculation. And since the origin of both is the Jalali calendar But as far as I'm advised, the Jalali Calendar refers to an era other than the Hejrie Shamsi which is in use today, and the calculations are not exactly the same. This is what some people have told me, I don't know about the details though. Can anybody clarify please? I confirm. The leap year calculation rule is supposedly that same, but the lengths of the months is different. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: IranL10nInfo
On Mon, 2004-05-10 at 22:50, hameed afssari wrote: 1. Jalali is the offical calendar of Afghanestan (although they may be using different month name). They use different month names, yes, but they officially call it the same as Iran: Hejri-e Shamsi or Hejri-e Khorshidi. That can be confirmed by looking at any calendar published in Afghanistan. To find some information about the calendars of Afghanistan, please see page 23 of the CLRA report: http://evertype.com/standards/af/af-locales.pdf 2. By calling it Persian or Iranian Calendar you are be default limiting it's use to a country or region and that is not correct. Actually, that will make it very correct. The actual computation of the leap year in this calendar is based on the Iranian coordinates. To quote the text of the official Iranian law of 1925, the first day of the year, is the day that sun passes the spring equinox point between the noon of that day and the noon of its previous day. You can see that it refers to *noon*, which is defined differently in different parts of the world. Iraj Malekpour, the previous guy in charge of the official calendar of Iran, used the noon of the 52.5 degree meridian (nesf-on-nahaar) that defines the official time of the country. I don't know the current practice. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Days of the Week abbreviated
On Sat, 2004-05-01 at 19:38, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: the *correct* way is to order from right to left. I confirm. The screenshot I sent was just for making people see something. The preferred direction is right to left and then top to bottom. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: FW: IranL10nInfo - First Week of The Year
On Sun, 2004-05-02 at 04:31, Omid K. Rad wrote: Im going to find the regulation that is used in Iran to determine the first week of the year. There is no regulation or practice for that, as far as I know. I'd love to be proved incorrect. (Well, actually the first week of the year doesn't start until Farvardin 14 here in Iran!) To decide on the first week of the year weve got three rules (don't tire out yourself with these, just read on): [...] Are those the only ones .NET allows? The POSIX standards allow four more. The general idea is identifying a certain day of the week that its occurence marks a first week of the year. Considering Saturday as the first day of the week, your FirstDay is equivalent to POSIX's Friday, your FirstFourDayWeek is equivalent to Tuesday, and your FirstFullWeek is equivalent to Saturday. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
RE: IranL10nInfo
On Wed, 2004-04-28 at 20:05, C Bobroff wrote: About your suggestion, however, we (i.e. our team) have no idea about Afghan and Tajik languages. It's all one language, different conventions. For example, Tajiki is written in the Cyrillic alphabet instead of Arabic. ;) roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Days of the Week abbreviated
On Wed, 2004-04-28 at 09:06, C Bobroff wrote: OK, but kindly don't involve Roozbeh in any flamefests until AFTER he's done with the fonts. Not much has happened with the fonts since last year (1382), and the latest version is 0.4. BTW, we need volunteers for tracking bugs in the fonts. As for me, I've been busy with the Academy stuff, specifications for Persian locale information and collation, and committee work for the FarsiLinux Technical Committee. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Days of the Week abbreviated
On Wed, 2004-04-28 at 08:10, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: First one is the concept of an abbreviation: I'm strongly with the idea that a single letter is not called an abbreviation. I doubt if anyone disagree on this. Ok, let's see what we have in English: Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, ... Sun, Mon, Tue, ... S, M, T, ... January, February, March, ... Jan, Feb, Mar, ... J, F, M, ... Let's call the first representation the long form, the second the short form, and the third the letter form. Now, again, I doubt if anyone disagree here that the entries in the short form are called abbreviations, neither the long form, nor the letter form. And where are they used: * long form, in long date representations. Using the usual sample: Tuesday, 21 September 1982. * short form, in a compact representation and in width-limited fields: Tue, 21 Sep 1982. * letter form, used ONLY in a two dimensional representation of a calendar. Like this: September 1982 S M T W T F S 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 Infact, when space allows, a two letter variant looks even better: September 1982 Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 But you never see: T, 21 S 1982, do you? (mister Jones :P). So, the point is that, the letter form (or biletter form) is not an abbreviation, and is an straight *mechanical* derivation of the other forms, to fulfill the space requirements. Again, note that it's simply S, not S., ie. no abbreviation. I copy everything to this point. I agree completely now. (I believed otherwise about two months ago or something like that, until Behdad convinced me.) * short form, we don't have short forms in Persian. There is an strong reason for that: We don't have upper and lower case letters. Why can we have these abbreviations in English? Because Sat is completely different from sat. But that's not possible in Persian. In Persian the only way to make abbreviations is to pick the first letters of a phrase, like h.sh. for hejrie shamshi. I can't agree. There are other ways, like what Mosahab Persian Encyclopedia has done. I'll get one of FarsiWeb staff to scan a page. * letter form, is again used quite like the English case, ie. in two dimensional printed calendars, but NOT anywhere else. Agreed. So, next time, don't let Roozbeh fool you with sayin those guys use it in Sharif University :P. Hmmm... They use it where you say they use it. On tables. If you find anyone who claims letter form is used in Persian for anything other than what I described, ..., he's trying to confuse you for sure :P. I copy you. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: GNOME Language and Culture capplet
On Thu, 2004-04-01 at 09:20, Behnam Esfahbod wrote: Good news from GNOME 2.8: GNOME Language and Culture capplet (aka gnome-localization-preferences) http://carlos.pemas.net/blog/200401030430.html But GNOME system configuration tools (which this is one of) are not included in many Linux distributions, like Fedora :( roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Salaam (Q. reg. Persian Fonts)
On Wed, 2004-03-17 at 15:01, Behnam Esfahbod wrote: Hi. You can use http://www.farsiweb.info/font/farsifonts-0.2.zip as they are full unicode-compatible and have more glyphs than bornas. The latest version (0.4) of that, is available from: http://www.farsiweb.info/font/farsifonts-0.4.zip ^^^ roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
First Kurdish daily
IRNA reports that the first Kurdish daily newspaper in Iran, called aashti () has started publication today (March 6, Esfand 16). Congratulations. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: English-Persian dictionary on your site (fwd)
On Thu, 2004-03-04 at 22:05, Peyman wrote: I checked 10 randomly selected words and I didn't find the same data in my Aryanpour CD (7 volume, Translators' version). It doesn't seem to me the same data; Maybe it's one of the shorter Aryanpours? Is it *very* different then? however, it may have used Aryanpour as one of its sources which is quite legal if it is mentioned in its sources. It really depends. But I agree that if it wanted to be legal and it had used Aryanpour, it should have mentioned the source at least. I also checked those words with Bateni and that was not Bateni either. It's definitely not Bateni, Bateni was published very recently. PS: Mr. Pournader didn't mention that he has also received a copy of that data ;) OK, let's make things clear from my involvement. I have been in communication with Massoud long long ago to possibly have someone do a PHP version. I didn't do that, perhaps since: a) I found the data file having many spelling problems; b) I couldn't find the time or a developer with the time; c) I found a much better dictionary later. (That's another story, but you may be able to guess something if you read between the lines on my open communication with Behdad). It seems that SchoolNet people didn't have the same problems. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: English-Persian dictionary on your site (fwd)
On Thu, 2004-03-04 at 16:38, Ali A. Khanban wrote: About 11-12 years ago, there was a dictionary on DOS written by someone I don't exactly remember his name. There wasn't any copy right involved, as long as I remember. I decoded the data and extracted it. That was based on Arianpour. Then I modified data and corrected it as much as I could. I don't understand how it had no copyright problem and at the same time was based on Aryanpour. But the difference may be explained now: It was you that corrected Aryanpour's text. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: English-Persian dictionary on your site (fwd)
On Thu, 2004-03-04 at 15:25, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: Roozbeh, can you please explain the Iranian copyright laws one more time? What does need explanation here? Would you ask specific questions? The text of the software copyright law is here: http://www.shci.ir/Law/Prod/CopyRight.asp It's aayin-naame was passed just recently. I don't have a copy of that. I don't have the text of the books/tapes/etc copyright law electronically, unfortunately. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Dictionaries on the web
On Thu, 2004-03-04 at 04:17, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: as you have *bought* the software, you can do whatever you want with it, as it's your property. Only that single copy will become your property of course. And you cannot do whatever you want with it: you cannot kill someone using it, you cannot copy it indefinitely, ... So, which of these I'm allowed to do and which not? I don't know. I don't support my previous personal point anymore. It may be completely legal to do all of those. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Long Live Owen Taylor
On Thu, 2004-03-04 at 08:07, Masuod wrote: Now we can stop using KEdit and other ugly KDE applications(dont flame me if you are a KDE advoacte). Well, you could have been a GNOME advocate and used gedit even with those bugs. hope to see more improvements. Please name them then. Free Software developers can't read your mind. Explain what would have been good, and what you expect. Help them understand it. They can implement it only then. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: AR-EN Morphoanalytical Dictionary
On Tue, 2004-03-02 at 17:08, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: He forwarded Massoud's offensive message to me. So I decided I should reply on list. -- Not surprisingly, there is no email address from Massoud Hashemi on the web. Massoud was among the few Persian programmers of the BBS and early internet era. He is a friend of Reza Mahjurian that you (Behdad) know. I remember some communication with him in the early days of FarsiWeb. Of course he doesn't explain the source of his data file and its copyright status in his message, but I'm sure he has not *compiled* it himself. I consider his message offensive also. Next, using pirated software in Iran is completely legal. 1) Please refrain from using the term pirated for software (as per RMS). 2) Software copyright infringement is not legal in Iran. It is only that Iranian copyright law doesn't protect software first distributed outside Iran. So copying Zarnegar without the permission of the vendor is not legal in Iran. The software copyrights of any country other than Iran is NOT valid in Iran (yet). That is a better approximation, but still incorrect. The fact is one cannot claim copyright in Iran on any software first released outside Iran. On the other hand, the data in a dictionary IS copyrighted by Iranian laws. Very true. And the copyright is still valid, it will only become invalid after 30 years passes from the death of all authors. Of course we are assuming that the information comes from Aryanpour, and Massoud has not compiled it himself. [From Massoud's email] Words are for People. What is this supposed to mean?! There is no copyright law in iran so you can copy even $10,000 software for $1 and is funny when somebody talk about copyright there. There is copyright in Iran, and it has been in effect since long ago in case on books and other publications. And that law was even applicable to software before a software copyright law got passed in the early days of the seventh Islamic Republic Majlis, and had just got its aayin-naame approved by the Board of Ministsers. Ali, I really recommend investigation further into the source of the *information* as a compilation, not who encoded the bits. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: AR-EN Morphoanalytical Dictionary
On Tue, 2004-03-02 at 18:35, Ali Samadi wrote: im just asking my self that when you are talking about doing write and wrong thing, Behdad was not talking about right and wrong. He was talking about legal and illegal. Copyright is considered bad by many people (me including), but copying other people's work is illegal in certain situations. did you ever thought about asking me for a permission to put my forwarded mail in a Public mail-List? This is for Behdad to answer, and it can't be undone easily unfortunately, but we can remove the email from the archives if you ask. As for mailing list policy, the maintainers appreciate asking for a sender's permission before forwarding a message to the list. One may lose his posting rights if he insists on repeating this, and we will agree to the removal of such a message from the archives, if anyone requests. Any way, i think if it is your wish, try to find out the truth. I believe it's also a problem for you. You may be doing illegal stuff (namely copying someone's copyrighted work without his permission), and you may want to avoid it to prevent yourself and your redistributers to be taken to court one day. Try to do what you think is the best Ali, Behdad may not be doing an ethically bad thing by forwarding a personal email to a public list, but he's giving you good legal advice on copyright matters. A developer, specially a free software developer, should know these matters, or ask people who know these things for advice. Otherwise, free software users will be taken to court, simply since they have trusted you when you said nobody but Massoud Hashemi claims copyright on the data file. roozbeh a guy from sharif edu ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: PersoArabic font challenge
On Tue, 2004-03-02 at 20:14, C Bobroff wrote: Did Persian (unicode) ever use ae? No. Was it then deprecated? It was never used, so it never deprecated. Actually, I personally believe that its usage for Kazakh etc is a mistake, and a Heh should have been used, but I'm no expert in those languages. One day, Unicode may deprecate AE altogether, if I find the time to study it carefully and lobby it aggressively. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: AR-EN Morphoanalytical Dictionary
On Tue, 2004-03-02 at 20:23, C Bobroff wrote: Do they not know or care? There have been examples of weird court rulings in Iran in case of copyright, because some religious publishers, by asking the question in a tricky way, had led Ayatollah Khomeini into issuing a Fatwa that can be interpreted by the same people as copyrights are against the essence of Islam. You can guess the rest. There is also the problem of the maximum penalty, which in the case of normal intellectual property (forgive the term), like books and movies, is not criminal, so you can not get much by taking the matter to court. (That is not true with the Software Copyright Bill, which includes some jail sentences as a maximum penalty.) But what is their story? Have they ever spoken on this subject? Their story is the story of every author in a country with a problematic court system. Where you can't trace the original mass copier because of the corruption. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Hyphenation in Persian
On Fri, 2004-02-13 at 11:19, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: To this date I and all people I know at FarsiWeb project used to say hyphenation is not and should not be used in Persian text, Hyphenation is/was used in Persian text, although it is highly discouraged now in the days of digital typography. That is what you hear from chief editors from Fatemi and Iran University Press. but after seeing some examples in some hardcopy books I came up to the conclusion that hyphenation IS allowed in Persian: It is used in older books, yes. Usually in the old days of sorbi typesetting. It was done to avoid re-setting the paragraph. Hyphenation can be used to break a word phrase across two lines from the places that words have formed the phrase. Not even that, it has been used quite sparingly in older days even in cases that lowered readablity quality more than that. Anyway, I am interested about the source of your conclusion about that. I really think we need a better character for sub-word boundaries in Persian... Subword boundaries don't need a character. In every language in the world that uses hyphenation, it is done using table lookups, not explicit encoding. Of course Unicode has a character for the case you want to explicitly add a hyphenation point in a word: it is U+00AD SOFT HYPHEN. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Nasta'aligh font
On Mon, 2004-01-26 at 14:27, Behnam wrote: Nasta'aligh font which was available at http://www.crulp.org/ (which seems to be no more there) Should be a server issue. I'm contacting the guys to ask. I said it wasn't Unicode. Connie thought it was. It is Unicode, it seems, but Pakistanis have their own letters. For example, it seems that they don't use the Arabic/Persian Heh, and they have their own two different Hehs in Unicode. So if you use a Persian Heh in a word, the word breaks. Since you just come from Lahore, you had a chance to take a closer look at this font I couldn't look closely, but I took a look at the internals and also used it a little. I can't tell much about its compliance, but it's definitely an Urdu font. For example, it contains certain ligatures that happen in some Urdu words, but not the equivalent Persian ones. what's your take on it? From what I could see, it doesn't seem to be mapped properly according Unicode standard. Would you provide examples? roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: What is address and telephone format for Iran
On Thu, 2004-01-22 at 04:30, hameed afssari wrote: Hi; I wanted to know if there is a standard format for Postal address and telephone numbers in Iran. I've heard from employees of IPM (people reponsible for .ir) that there is a standard format the Minisitry of Communications is recommending, and it is written in a document. I have asked them for a copy, but have not received it yet. If you live in Iran, try contacting a post office or the ministry. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: Nesf2
On Thu, 2004-01-22 at 12:02, Mohammad Samini wrote: I want to use Nesf2 from http://www.farsiweb.info/font/nesf2.zip. But it has problem while using it in microsoft office. Nesf2 has officially stopped development. There are many known bugs, with no plans to fix them. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: FarsiFonts 0.3 (beta)
On Fri, 2004-01-16 at 18:30, Ali A. Khanban wrote: 1. Arabic Hamza Above (U+0654), Arabic Hamza Below (U+0655), Arabic Subscript Alef (U+0656) and Arabic Maddah Above (U+0653) behave differently from Arabic Fatha and so on. They behave more like a letter. This should be because of old software. What is the exact software you are using for that? If you have a copy of MS Office 2003, for example, can you reproduce the bug there? Also, try as an example the result of Arabic Letter Waw (U+0648) + Arabic Hamza Above (U+0654) compared to Arabic Letter Waw With Hamza Above (U+0624). This is a bug. But I don't know if it can be fixed in a font instead of in software. I will check and see. 2. Arabic Letter Alef Maksura (U+0649) in initial and middle form is shown incorrectly as single and end form (the same as famous Farsi Yeh problem). Again this is old software. I don't have the problem on Windows XP's Notepad. And this cannot be fixed in the font. BTW, all the numerals are the same shape in different fonts. This should be due to a setting somewhere. Would you please tell me about the versions of software you're testing it with? roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Re: pdf2Word
On Sun, 2004-01-18 at 19:51, Sam Baran wrote: Does anyone know how to convert Adobe pdf Farsi text to MS Word 2000 Farsi text? It depends on the software that created the PDF page. In each case, special decoding software should be written, since these packages usually do not follow the Adobe standards. roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
Persian and Pan localization workshop
I was at Lahore the last week as a trainer for a workshop called the Fundamentals of Local Language Computing (http://www.panl10n.net/training.htm). It was a wonderful experience seeing Lahore, and meeting various people there, but I'm not writing about that here. Something that should be interesting for the members of this list, was the announcement of an official translation of the user interface of Microsoft Office 2003 to the Persian language (among others). What will be there, is a wordlist-based spellchecker, and full translation of the user interface and error messages of MS Office Standard Edition 2003 (Excel, Outlook, PowerPoint, and Word). It will be published as a gratis add-on downloadable from Microsoft's website, installable over an English version of MS Office 2003. The timing is still not known. I saw a basic demo, and was generally impressed. I believe this has been a good forward step for the users of the language, specially those who don't know English. Roozbeh ___ PersianComputing mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sharif.edu/mailman/listinfo/persiancomputing
