Re: [Phono-L] edison's son made recording?/
Hi Allen:-- You wrote: "It would be helpful if we could find out if the crying child/tinfoil had any historical roots, or at least when it was first told as such (i.e. how soon after 1878)." In my own writing (still just in manuscript) I've been treating this as a story first published at the end of 1888 about something that had supposedly happened earlier that year. So far I'm not seeing any reason to suspect it's any older than that -- are you? It strikes me that the 1895 story can be explained as a retelling of the 1888 story that left out key details, and the twentieth-century story as a retelling of the 1895 one that filled in the gaps with guesswork. That doesn't seem to leave anything unaccounted for, although I think you're definitely onto something interesting here with the later evolution of the story! "Shall I/we assume that Gouraud's version in 1888 of a crying baby was apparently anonymous (or just not identified)?" The baby isn't named, as far as I've seen -- any connection I've been toying with is based on bits of circumstantial evidence, and there's no smoking gun. - Patrick ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] edison's son made recording?/
Thanks again. Yes. Madeleine was born in late May of 1888, so there are
some limitations with these stories.
It does seem as if some of these accounts (of recording crying babies)
have been, shall we say, "conflated." By the time of Miller's book on Edison
(1931), the general version had been moved back to the era of the first
(tinfoil) phonograph and utilizing Edison's first son Tom jr. (born Jan
1876). That is the account preferred by the 1940 film ('Edison the Man').
It would be helpful if we could find out if the crying child/tinfoil had
any historical roots, or at least when it was first told as such (i.e. how
soon after 1878).
Certainly by May 1894, in popular phonograph exhibitions, there was
already a niche for a crying baby (and sometimes a soothing mother). And even
some attempts to present Pres Cleveland's out of wedlock "baby" (crying) on a
recording.
Shall I/we assume that Gouraud's version in 1888 of a crying baby was
apparently anonymous (or just not identified)?
Allen
-
In a message dated 4/20/2016 6:48:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
pfeas...@indiana.edu writes:
Gouraud did exhibit it (baby crying) there, as reported in the local press
that July (1888). He doesn't seem to have identified it as a record of
Edison's own daughter, though.
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Re: [Phono-L] edison's son made recording?/
Hi Allen:--
I can see how someone reading the New York Herald piece from 1895 in later
years might have thought the story was supposed to have been set in the tinfoil
era, but I don't believe it originally was.
The subject is identified as Edison's "firstborn," and referred to as "it,"
which would ordinarily point to Marion (born 1873) -- but of course that would
have been too early for the phonograph. The only other clue as to date is that
the phonograph was supposedly "near enough perfection" at the time to make a
record for the family archive. Apparently Jones -- or someone, at least --
assumed that the story referred to Edison's firstborn *son* (born 1876) and to
the tinfoil phonograph of 1877-78, and ran with this interpretation.
But older versions of the story, published in December 1888, contain a lot more
detail: the subject was Edison's most recent baby, Madeleine, not his
"firstborn"; the recording was on a wax cylinder; Theo Wangemann had given
Edison the idea of making it; and duplicates of it had been sent across the
Atlantic for exhibition. Except for the "firstborn" part, there's nothing in
the 1895 article that contradicts any of this.
For what it's worth, a record of an American baby crying did in fact go over to
London with the first phonograph of the new model in 1888, and Gouraud did
exhibit it there, as reported in the local press that July. He doesn't seem to
have identified it as a record of Edison's own daughter, though.
I haven't been able to trace the "pinching" story itself back before December
1888, but some articles dating back to June of that year report that Edison was
planning to record Madeleine's voice -- ideally at regular intervals as she
grew up.
- Patrick
PS. Here's the whole story as it appeared in the New Brunswick Times of
December 7, 1888:
Edison has recorded on his phonograph the indignant wail of his baby. At the
laboratory one day the inventor complained that the baby disturbed him and that
he could not work at home.
“Why don’t you put her at the phonograph?” inquired Mr. Wangemann, his
assistant, mischievously.
Mr. Edison made no reply, but the next time his heir apparent did cry he was
ready for her. In fact, he grew very impatient because she behaved remarkably
well, and didn’t cry within his hearing for a week. At last the time came.
The infant got her toes tangled up in her stocking and uttered a plaintive
wail. The father seized her, thrust her nose into the funnel and set the motor
a-going. Alas! the flying bright brass Governor amused her, and she stopped
crying and began to laugh. Mr. Edison was disgusted. He shook her violently
and screamed into her ears, but she only chuckled and cooed. He was in
despair. Happy thought! He would pinch her. He did pinch her, and she
expressed her displeasure with vociferous howls. The racket waked up the nurse
in the next room, and she flew in at the door in terror.
“What have you been doing now?” she indignantly demanded.
“That baby wouldn’t cry for my phonograph, and I just pinched her so she would.”
“I never was so abused in my life,” said Mr. Edison afterward. “But I’ve got
that baby’s howls right here on this wax cylinder.” Copies were sent to London
and they have since been traveling over Europe, but Mrs. Edison does not know
it.
From: Phono-L on behalf of AllenAmet--- via
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Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2016 5:16 PM
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Subject: Re: [Phono-L] edison's son made recording?/
Thank you, Patrick.
I see that Francis Miller (1931) basically lifted the anecdote (regarding the
baby crying on tinfoil, 'NY Herald') from Francis Jones' 1907 bio of Edison.
Is it possible to push the story back further in time? The ("NY Herald") text
that both authors used was actually from April of 1895.
Of course, the incident also appears in the 1940 film with Spencer Tracy as
TAE.
Allen
In a message dated 4/20/2016 6:41:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
phono-l@oldcrank.org writes:
“The Baby at the Phonograph,” New Brunswick Times, Dec. 7, 1888 (TAEM 146:268)
O. K. Davis, “Some Facts Relating to the Early Development of the Phonograph,”
Phonogram 3 (Mar.-Apr. 1893), 385-6.
“Phonograph the Baby’s Cry,” New York Morning Sun, Dec. 2, 1888 (TAEM 146:324)
“The Baby Wouldn’t Cry,” from New York Herald, in Indiana Progress (Indiana,
Pennsylvania), Apr. 24, 1895, p. 7.
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Re: [Phono-L] edison's son made recording?/
Thank you, Patrick.
I see that Francis Miller (1931) basically lifted the anecdote
(regarding the baby crying on tinfoil, 'NY Herald') from Francis Jones' 1907
bio of
Edison.
Is it possible to push the story back further in time? The ("NY Herald")
text that both authors used was actually from April of 1895.
Of course, the incident also appears in the 1940 film with Spencer Tracy
as TAE.
Allen
In a message dated 4/20/2016 6:41:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
phono-l@oldcrank.org writes:
“The Baby at the Phonograph,” New Brunswick Times, Dec. 7, 1888 (TAEM
146:268)
O. K. Davis, “Some Facts Relating to the Early Development of the
Phonograph,” Phonogram 3 (Mar.-Apr. 1893), 385-6.
“Phonograph the Baby’s Cry,” New York Morning Sun, Dec. 2, 1888 (TAEM
146:324)
“The Baby Wouldn’t Cry,” from New York Herald, in Indiana Progress
(Indiana, Pennsylvania), Apr. 24, 1895, p. 7.
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Re: [Phono-L] edison's son made recording?/
Thank you, Joan, I see your pp 177-179 reference in Miller's book as being from the 'New York Herald,' 1877. However, I think that Miller has mangled the citation, that it is really from 1895, and from the 'Philadelphia Inquirer.' Much thanks! Now to see if the story can be traced further back, in time... Allen -- In a message dated 4/20/2016 7:16:59 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, phono-l@oldcrank.org writes: I checked my Francis Miller book "An Inspiring Story for boys", Pages 177 to 179. The story is recorded in the New York Times in 1877. Complete Times article is in the Miller book. ___ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.org Unsubscribe: phono-l-unsubscr...@oldcrank.org
Re: [Phono-L] edison's son made recording?
Allen,
I checked my Francis Miller book "An Inspiring Story for boys", Pages 177
to 179. The story is recorded in the New York Times in 1877. Complete Times
article is in the Miller book.
Joan L.
In a message dated 4/19/2016 5:54:38 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
phono-l@oldcrank.org writes:
Hi
Does anyone remember where the story of Edison's son ("Dash") making a
tinfoil recording (1877-78) because his father pinched him, appears?
Thanks.
Allen
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Re: [Phono-L] edison's son made recording?
A story of this type was reported about Madeleine starting in 1888, involving
wax rather than tinfoil, with numerous variants (including a couple where she
was narrowly rescued from pinching but then cried anyway when the noise of some
machinery frightened her). Sources include:
"The Baby at the Phonograph," New Brunswick Times, Dec. 7, 1888 (TAEM 146:268)
O. K. Davis, "Some Facts Relating to the Early Development of the Phonograph,"
Phonogram 3 (Mar.-Apr. 1893), 385-6.
"Phonograph the Baby's Cry," New York Morning Sun, Dec. 2, 1888 (TAEM 146:324)
"The Baby Wouldn't Cry," from New York Herald, in Indiana Progress (Indiana,
Pennsylvania), Apr. 24, 1895, p. 7.
- Patrick
From: Phono-L on behalf of AllenAmet--- via
Phono-L
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 5:48 PM
To: phono-l@oldcrank.org
Cc: allena...@aol.com
Subject: [Phono-L] edison's son made recording?
Hi
Does anyone remember where the story of Edison's son ("Dash") making a
tinfoil recording (1877-78) because his father pinched him, appears?
Thanks.
Allen
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Re: [Phono-L] edison's son made recording?
It sounds like something Francis Miller might make up
Quoting AllenAmet--- via Phono-L :
> Hi
>
> Does anyone remember where the story of Edison's son ("Dash") making a
> tinfoil recording (1877-78) because his father pinched him, appears?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Allen
>
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