Re: [Python-Dev] r85838 - python/branches/py3k/.gitignore

2010-10-26 Thread Georg Brandl
Am 25.10.2010 19:37, schrieb victor.stinner: Author: victor.stinner Date: Mon Oct 25 19:37:18 2010 New Revision: 85838 Log: update gitignore Added: python/branches/py3k/.gitignore This looks more like Add gitignore. Do we really want to check in ignore files for every possible

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue 10194 - Adding a gc.remap() function

2010-10-26 Thread Hrvoje Niksic
On 10/26/2010 07:04 AM, Peter Ingebretson wrote: I have a patch that adds a new function to the gc module. The gc.remap() function uses the tp_traverse mechanism to find all references to any keys in a provided mapping, and remaps these references in-place to instead point to the value

Re: [Python-Dev] Change to logging Formatters: support for alternative format styles

2010-10-26 Thread Nick Coghlan
On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 12:28 AM, Vinay Sajip vinay_sa...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Comments welcome. Assuming there are no strong objections asking for reversion of this change, I'll publicise to the wider community in a few days. It strikes me as a solid, pragmatic solution to a thorny problem.

Re: [Python-Dev] Change to logging Formatters: support for alternative format styles

2010-10-26 Thread Nick Coghlan
On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 12:28 AM, Vinay Sajip vinay_sa...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Comments welcome. Assuming there are no strong objections asking for reversion of this change, I'll publicise to the wider community in a few

Re: [Python-Dev] r85838 - python/branches/py3k/.gitignore

2010-10-26 Thread Nick Coghlan
On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 5:31 PM, Georg Brandl g.bra...@gmx.net wrote: This looks more like Add gitignore.  Do we really want to check in ignore files for every possible DVCS? No, but supporting the current big four open source ones (svn, hg, bzr, git) seems reasonable enough. Cheers, Nick. --

Re: [Python-Dev] Change to logging Formatters: support for alternative format styles

2010-10-26 Thread Boštjan Mejak
Line 31 (in Pastebin): _STYLE_CODES = tuple(% { $.split()) Is this really necessary? Why not _STYLE_CODES = ('%', '{', '$') On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 1:15 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Nick Coghlan ncogh...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at

Re: [Python-Dev] Change to logging Formatters: support for alternative format styles

2010-10-26 Thread Vinay Sajip
Nick Coghlan ncoghlan at gmail.com writes: Looking at your checkin though, I wonder if it might be worth implementing some little formatting style classes to get rid of the if/elif chains from the Formatter code. Something like: Fair comment: I did think about the messiness of that if/elif,

Re: [Python-Dev] r85838 - python/branches/py3k/.gitignore

2010-10-26 Thread Barry Warsaw
On Oct 26, 2010, at 09:19 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 5:31 PM, Georg Brandl g.bra...@gmx.net wrote: This looks more like Add gitignore.  Do we really want to check in ignore files for every possible DVCS? No, but supporting the current big four open source ones (svn, hg,

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue 10194 - Adding a gc.remap() function

2010-10-26 Thread Benjamin Peterson
2010/10/26 Peter Ingebretson pinge...@yahoo.com: I have a patch that adds a new function to the gc module.  The gc.remap() function uses the tp_traverse mechanism to find all references to any keys in a provided mapping, and remaps these references in-place to instead point to the value

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue 10194 - Adding a gc.remap() function

2010-10-26 Thread Peter Ingebretson
--- On Tue, 10/26/10, Hrvoje Niksic hrvoje.nik...@avl.com wrote: What about objects that don't implement tp_traverse because they cannot take part in cycles? A significant majority of objects that can hold references to other objects can take part in cycles and do implement tp_traverse. My

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue 10194 - Adding a gc.remap() function

2010-10-26 Thread Peter Ingebretson
--- On Tue, 10/26/10, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote: Is there any reason that you'd want to do this? http://doublestar.org/python-hot-loading-prototype/ I have a relatively large application written in Python, and a specific use case where it will significantly increase our

[Python-Dev] On breaking modules into packages Was: [issue10199] Move Demo/turtle under Lib/

2010-10-26 Thread Raymond Hettinger
On Oct 26, 2010, at 9:31 AM, Guido van Rossum wrote: I would like Gregor Lingl's approval of turning turtle.py into a package. It might make some things harder for novices, e.g. trackebacks and just browsing the source code. Also many people don't expect to find any code in a file named

Re: [Python-Dev] r85838 - python/branches/py3k/.gitignore

2010-10-26 Thread Ned Deily
In article 20101026085124.4c684...@mission, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org wrote: On Oct 26, 2010, at 09:19 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 5:31 PM, Georg Brandl g.bra...@gmx.net wrote: This looks more like Add gitignore.  Do we really want to check in ignore files for every

Re: [Python-Dev] Python bug week-end : 20-21 November

2010-10-26 Thread Brett Cannon
Can whomever has edit access to the Python Google Calendar add this? On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 14:03, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: Hello, The development team of the Python interpreter (a.k.a python-dev) is organizing a bug week-end on Saturday 20th and Sunday 21st of November.

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue 10194 - Adding a gc.remap() function

2010-10-26 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 26.10.2010 19:24, schrieb Peter Ingebretson: --- On Tue, 10/26/10, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote: Is there any reason that you'd want to do this? http://doublestar.org/python-hot-loading-prototype/ I have a relatively large application written in Python, and a specific use

Re: [Python-Dev] r85838 - python/branches/py3k/.gitignore

2010-10-26 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 10:42:27 -0700 Ned Deily n...@acm.org wrote: In article 20101026085124.4c684...@mission, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org wrote: On Oct 26, 2010, at 09:19 PM, Nick Coghlan wrote: On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 5:31 PM, Georg Brandl g.bra...@gmx.net wrote: This looks more like

Re: [Python-Dev] On breaking modules into packages Was: [issue10199] Move Demo/turtle under Lib/

2010-10-26 Thread Alexander Belopolsky
On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Raymond Hettinger raymond.hettin...@gmail.com wrote: .. Packaging is not always wrong.  Maybe it was the right thing to do for unittest, maybe not. This is an example that I personally find ill-justified. Particularly annoying is the fact that opening

Re: [Python-Dev] On breaking modules into packages Was: [issue10199] Move Demo/turtle under Lib/

2010-10-26 Thread R. David Murray
On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 10:39:19 -0700, Raymond Hettinger raymond.hettin...@gmail.com wrote: If someone wants to reorganize code for clarity, I would prefer keeping it within one file, bringing related functions together and using comment lines to mark the major sections. ISTM, this is cleaner

Re: [Python-Dev] On breaking modules into packages Was: [issue10199] Move Demo/turtle under Lib/

2010-10-26 Thread Benjamin Peterson
2010/10/26 Alexander Belopolsky alexander.belopol...@gmail.com: On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Raymond Hettinger raymond.hettin...@gmail.com wrote: .. Packaging is not always wrong.  Maybe it was the right thing to do for unittest, maybe not. This is an example that I personally find

Re: [Python-Dev] r85838 - python/branches/py3k/.gitignore

2010-10-26 Thread Ned Deily
In article 20101026200234.5f8e8...@pitrou.net, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote: You could use own of the official mirrors at http://code.python.org/hg/ The official hg mirrors work great: in my experience, faster than svn and simpler with all the useful history information retained

Re: [Python-Dev] On breaking modules into packages Was: [issue10199] Move Demo/turtle under Lib/

2010-10-26 Thread Raymond Hettinger
On Oct 26, 2010, at 12:18 PM, Benjamin Peterson wrote: 2010/10/26 Alexander Belopolsky alexander.belopol...@gmail.com: On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Raymond Hettinger raymond.hettin...@gmail.com wrote: .. Packaging is not always wrong. Maybe it was the right thing to do for unittest,

Re: [Python-Dev] On breaking modules into packages Was: [issue10199] Move Demo/turtle under Lib/

2010-10-26 Thread Antoine Pitrou
On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 12:34:30 -0700 Raymond Hettinger raymond.hettin...@gmail.com wrote: FWIW, it wasn't that big (approx 2500 lines). The argparse, difflib, doctest, pickletools, pydoc, tarfile modules are about the same size and the decimal module is even larger. Please don't split those.

Re: [Python-Dev] Python bug week-end : 20-21 November

2010-10-26 Thread Georg Brandl
Am 26.10.2010 19:53, schrieb Brett Cannon: Can whomever has edit access to the Python Google Calendar add this? Done. Georg -- Thus spake the Lord: Thou shalt indent with four spaces. No more, no less. Four shall be the number of spaces thou shalt indent, and the number of thy indenting shall

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue 10194 - Adding a gc.remap() function

2010-10-26 Thread Peter Ingebretson
--- On Tue, 10/26/10, Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote: I think this then mandates a PEP; I'm -1 on the feature also. I am happy to write up a PEP for this feature. I'll start that process now, though if anyone feels that this idea has no chance of acceptance please let me know.

Re: [Python-Dev] On breaking modules into packages Was: [issue10199] Move Demo/turtle under Lib/

2010-10-26 Thread Michael Foord
On 26/10/2010 15:05, R. David Murray wrote: On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 10:39:19 -0700, Raymond Hettingerraymond.hettin...@gmail.com wrote: If someone wants to reorganize code for clarity, I would prefer keeping it within one file, bringing related functions together and using comment lines to mark

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue 10194 - Adding a gc.remap() function

2010-10-26 Thread Martin v. Löwis
Am 26.10.2010 22:28, schrieb Peter Ingebretson: --- On Tue, 10/26/10, Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote: I think this then mandates a PEP; I'm -1 on the feature also. I am happy to write up a PEP for this feature. I'll start that process now, though if anyone feels that this idea

Re: [Python-Dev] r85838 - python/branches/py3k/.gitignore

2010-10-26 Thread Victor Stinner
Le mardi 26 octobre 2010 09:31:11, Georg Brandl a écrit : Am 25.10.2010 19:37, schrieb victor.stinner: Author: victor.stinner Date: Mon Oct 25 19:37:18 2010 New Revision: 85838 Log: update gitignore Added: python/branches/py3k/.gitignore This looks more like Add

Re: [Python-Dev] On breaking modules into packages Was: [issue10199] Move Demo/turtle under Lib/

2010-10-26 Thread Fred Drake
On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 4:46 PM, Michael Foord fuzzy...@voidspace.org.uk wrote: I find the big-ball-of-mud style development, where everything lives inside huge monolithic modules, very painful. I also think that it is an extremely bad example for new developers. Gadzooks, Michael! Something

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue 10194 - Adding a gc.remap() function

2010-10-26 Thread Peter Ingebretson
--- On Tue, 10/26/10, Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote: I think this then mandates a PEP; I'm -1 on the feature also. I am happy to write up a PEP for this feature.  I'll start that process now, though if anyone feels that this idea has no chance of acceptance please let me know.

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue 10194 - Adding a gc.remap() function

2010-10-26 Thread Neil Schemenauer
Peter Ingebretson pinge...@yahoo.com wrote: I am happy to write up a PEP for this feature. I'll start that process now, though if anyone feels that this idea has no chance of acceptance please let me know. I think a feature that allows modules to be more reliability reloaded could be

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue 10194 - Adding a gc.remap() function

2010-10-26 Thread exarkun
On 08:28 pm, pinge...@yahoo.com wrote: --- On Tue, 10/26/10, Martin v. L�wis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote: I think this then mandates a PEP; I'm -1 on the feature also. I am happy to write up a PEP for this feature. I'll start that process now, though if anyone feels that this idea has no chance

Re: [Python-Dev] On breaking modules into packages Was: [issue10199] Move Demo/turtle under Lib/

2010-10-26 Thread Ron Adam
On 10/26/2010 02:34 PM, Raymond Hettinger wrote: FWIW, it wasn't that big (approx 2500 lines). The argparse, difflib, doctest, pickletools, pydoc, tarfile modules are about the same size and the decimal module is even larger. Please don't split those. Sense you mention this... I've worked

Re: [Python-Dev] __setcall__

2010-10-26 Thread Bj Raz
I'll look into SAGE, I am still curious if there is, a way, to write this in native python, cause I'm currently plotting in Autodesk Maya, and using Python. Sent from my iPhone On Oct 24, 2010, at 12:51 PM, Benjamin Peterson benja...@python.org wrote: 2010/10/24 Bj Raz

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue 10194 - Adding a gc.remap() function

2010-10-26 Thread P.J. Eby
At 10:24 AM 10/26/2010 -0700, Peter Ingebretson wrote: I have a relatively large application written in Python, and a specific use case where it will significantly increase our speed of iteration to be able to change and test modules without needing to restart the application. If all you

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue 10194 - Adding a gc.remap() function

2010-10-26 Thread Peter Ingebretson
--- On Tue, 10/26/10, Neil Schemenauer n...@arctrix.com wrote: I am happy to write up a PEP for this feature.  I'll start that process now, though if anyone feels that this idea has no chance of acceptance please let me know. I think a feature that allows modules to be more

Re: [Python-Dev] __setcall__

2010-10-26 Thread Robert Kern
On 10/26/10 5:05 PM, Bj Raz wrote: I'll look into SAGE, I am still curious if there is, a way, to write this in native python, cause I'm currently plotting in Autodesk Maya, and using Python. This thread is off-topic for python-dev, which is intended for the development *of* the Python

Re: [Python-Dev] On breaking modules into packages Was: [issue10199] Move Demo/turtle under Lib/

2010-10-26 Thread Raymond Hettinger
On Oct 26, 2010, at 2:54 PM, Ron Adam wrote: I've worked on pydoc to make it much nicer to use in a browser. While you're at it. Can you please modernize the html and create a style sheet? Right now, all of formatting is deeply intertwined with content generation. Fixing that would be a

Re: [Python-Dev] Issue 10194 - Adding a gc.remap() function

2010-10-26 Thread Peter Ingebretson
--- On Tue, 10/26/10, P.J. Eby p...@telecommunity.com wrote: If all you really want this for is reloading, it would probably make more sense to simply modify the existing class and function objects using the reloaded values as a template, then save the modified classes and functions back to

Re: [Python-Dev] __setcall__

2010-10-26 Thread Greg Ewing
Robert Kern wrote: This thread is off-topic for python-dev, which is intended for the development *of* the Python interpreter, not development *in* Python. I got the impression that he was asking for a new feature -- i.e. to be allowed to write a call on the left of an assignment, with a

Re: [Python-Dev] On breaking modules into packages Was: [issue10199] Move Demo/turtle under Lib/

2010-10-26 Thread Ron Adam
On 10/26/2010 05:35 PM, Raymond Hettinger wrote: On Oct 26, 2010, at 2:54 PM, Ron Adam wrote: I've worked on pydoc to make it much nicer to use in a browser. While you're at it. Can you please modernize the html and create a style sheet? Right now, all of formatting is deeply

Re: [Python-Dev] On breaking modules into packages Was: [issue10199] Move Demo/turtle under Lib/

2010-10-26 Thread Alexander Belopolsky
On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Fred Drake fdr...@acm.org wrote: On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 4:46 PM, Michael Foord fuzzy...@voidspace.org.uk wrote: I find the big-ball-of-mud style development, where everything lives inside huge monolithic modules, very painful. I also think that it is an

[Python-Dev] new buffer in python2.7

2010-10-26 Thread Kristján Valur Jónsson
Although 2.7 has the new buffer interface and memoryview objects, these are widely not accepted in the built in modules. Examples are the structmodule, some of the socketmodule apis, structmodule, etc. IMHO this is unfortunate. For example when doign network io, you would want code like this:

Re: [Python-Dev] new buffer in python2.7

2010-10-26 Thread Kristján Valur Jónsson
Not forgetggin the StringI object in cStringIO. IMHO, not accepting buffers by these objects can be consided a bug, that needs fixing. K From: python-dev-bounces+kristjan=ccpgames@python.org [mailto:python-dev-bounces+kristjan=ccpgames@python.org] On Behalf Of Kristján Valur Jónsson

Re: [Python-Dev] On breaking modules into packages Was: [issue10199] Move Demo/turtle under Lib/

2010-10-26 Thread Barry Warsaw
On Oct 26, 2010, at 04:46 PM, Michael Foord wrote: I find the big-ball-of-mud style development, where everything lives inside huge monolithic modules, very painful. I also think that it is an extremely bad example for new developers. There is something to be said for consistency within the

Re: [Python-Dev] On breaking modules into packages Was: [issue10199] Move Demo/turtle under Lib/

2010-10-26 Thread R. David Murray
On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 16:46:15 -0400, Michael Foord wrote: On 26/10/2010 15:05, R. David Murray wrote: On Tue, 26 Oct 2010 10:39:19 -0700, Raymond Hettingerraymond.hettin...@gmail.com wrote: If someone wants to reorganize code for clarity, I would prefer keeping it within one file,

Re: [Python-Dev] On breaking modules into packages Was: [issue10199] Move Demo/turtle under Lib/

2010-10-26 Thread Barry Warsaw
On Oct 26, 2010, at 09:54 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: I think it comes down to the preference of whoever works the most actively on it. Michael is the most active contributor to unittest by far, and I suppose he prefers it to be split into several submodules. And that seems perfectly reasonable to

Re: [Python-Dev] On breaking modules into packages Was: [issue10199] Move Demo/turtle under Lib/

2010-10-26 Thread Ron Adam
On 10/26/2010 05:35 PM, Raymond Hettinger wrote: On Oct 26, 2010, at 2:54 PM, Ron Adam wrote: I wonder what you may think. Keep it in pydoc or move it to the HTTP package? Document it or not? I still would like to know what your thoughts are concerning where to put, and/or how to