ah, regarding things like crowdfx syflex, or the more comprehensive
prebuilt ICE nodes, i think that's all very dependent on what people use
ICE for.
you have a lot of flexibility there.
i've never used the syflex stuff beyond base setups, but i've never really
done must cloth sim stuff recently.
The functional programming throwback has officially pushed this
conversation into the twilight zone and right out the other end of it into
some unexplored surreal territory.
Thanks to all involved, it'll stay with me for the rest of my life and make
me giggle every time I'll think of it.
+1
Both mentions to FE tech are a bit surreal.
Now that I understand the history of ICE a little better, I can see that I
was wrong to balk at naming the top ICE nodes I need. Here's my updated
list:
car cdr cons eq atom cons quote
I suppose I won't really need defun, since Maya will let me just add the
same nodes over and over again with a
Fun fact: Do you know Maya started out using scheme as its scripting language?
--
Brent
From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Andy Jones
Sent: 20 March 2014 07:47
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Top List of
The original Softimage 3D developers loved LISP so much, they lobbied
Daniel Langlois to write the software in LISP. The people behing
Mirai probably think they dodge a bullet. The Softimage|3D expression
language, also in XSI, is based on LISP..
On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 3:47 AM, Andy Jones
On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 2:56 AM, Raffaele Fragapane
raffsxsil...@googlemail.com wrote:
The functional programming throwback has officially pushed this conversation
into the twilight zone and right out the other end of it into some
unexplored surreal territory.
Thanks to all involved, it'll
I'm not saying it's B.S., but it is remarkably out place.
Beside the fact implying functional programming was unpopular, or dead, or
forgotten since the 80s or the 60s or whatever is immensely asinine, given
that a staggering amount of engineers and mathematicians out there dealing
with tough as
Guys, I think we lost another PM... Chris V. has moved on to better
pastures... :(
On Tuesday, March 18, 2014 7:16:46 PM, Adam Sale wrote:
Chris, lets err on the side of caution and implement them all, as they
will all be needed at one time or another. The cool thing about ICE is
that one
What? !
He was one of the few who were talking to us even when being attacked and
cursed. The only good thing that has happened to us in the last couple of
weeks.
Martin
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 9:58 PM, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@hybride.comwrote:
Guys, I think we lost another PM... Chris V.
Seriously? Well my faith in the management of autodesk just reached a new
low, didn't think that was possible.
On 19 March 2014 12:58, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@hybride.com wrote:
Guys, I think we lost another PM... Chris V. has moved on to better
pastures... :(
No it's a joke, but Chris V. has been MIA when questions are being
asked...
On Wednesday, March 19, 2014 9:09:53 AM, Matt Morris wrote:
Seriously? Well my faith in the management of autodesk just reached a
new low, didn't think that was possible.
On 19 March 2014 12:58, Eric Thivierge
Can you move the question to Chris to a new thread for when he gets back
online. Thanks
On Mar 19, 2014 9:15 AM, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@hybride.com wrote:
No it's a joke, but Chris V. has been MIA when questions are being asked...
On Wednesday, March 19, 2014 9:09:53 AM, Matt Morris wrote:
No. We have enough threads already and the question was in context to
what was being said in this thread. I know it's a task to sift through
all these emails, but he engaged in this thread so he should be keeping
up with the thread and the questions asked within it. Honestly, I
shouldn't have
Sorry guys. I got a nasty case of tonsillitis and have been laid out for the
last three days.
CV/
Sent from Windows Mail
From: Eric Thivierge
Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 9:15 AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
No it's a joke, but Chris V. has been MIA when questions are
And to Chris' credit, he still replied to me offline with a question I had.
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Chris Vienneau
chris.vienn...@autodesk.com wrote:
Sorry guys. I got a nasty case of tonsillitis and have been laid out for
the last three days.
CV/
Sent from Windows Mail
From:
Sorry to hear that. Hope you feel better soon. Thanks for the note.
Eric T.
On Wednesday, March 19, 2014 10:15:15 AM, Chris Vienneau wrote:
Sorry guys. I got a nasty case of tonsillitis and have been laid out for the
last three days.
CV/
Sent from Windows Mail
From: Eric Thivierge
Sent:
Yeah I wasn't talking data types. Things like syflex and crowds was the main
gist of the question.
Sent from Windows Mail
From: Enoch Ihde
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2014 7:08 PM
To: softimage
@chris:
i use pretty much all of the generic general nodes, as i think any user of
ice
Sorry I am reading through a lot of the posts. Answers inline
From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
[softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] on behalf of Eric Thivierge
[ethivie...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2014 6:42 PM
To:
Replying Inline as well. :)
A few questions:
1. How do you respond to the people who have been long time die hard Softimage
users who have also been exposed to other DCC's, maya specifically, who have
little to no faith in AD being innovative or responsive to their user base as
history has
The statement ICE was derived from a very novel programming
methodology that had fallen out of favor and which is why Fabric can
start up with no harm of IP infringement on ICE is perplexing. It
seems to suggest that Fabric borrows from ICE, which is not a remotely
accurate portrayal of the
Chris,
*(...) ICE was derived from a very novel programming methodology that had
fallen out of favor and which is why Fabric can start up with no harm of IP
infringement on ICE. (...)*
Excuse me, say what? I'm so calling 'bullshit' on that statement.
I don't even know where to begin...
a.)
Hi Eric,
I will go back up as our inline inline is getting too hard to follow. What we
have been doing the last few years is bringing on very focused dev talent like
the NEX guys or unfold 3D guys and signing them to multi-year contracts so we
do not get the plugin pasted in and it dies. This
Hi Martin,
Graphical programming/data flow graphs are not a programming methodology. ICE
is based on a functional style programming like the type you see in Scheme,
Clojure from Google, and even Lisp. This methodology was very much out of style
in the object oriented C++ world of the 90s.
Thanks for clearing that up, Chris - appreciated.
On 19 March 2014 14:30, Chris Vienneau chris.vienn...@autodesk.com wrote:
Hi Martin,
Graphical programming/data flow graphs are not a programming methodology. ICE
is based on a functional style programming like the type you see in Scheme,
On 03/19/14 14:00, Chris Vienneau wrote:
I understand why everyone here is skeptical about our ability to innovate or trust what is being written. We have to show progress on these topics in short order and keep it up or you will find other solutions eventually.
Even -if- (big -if-) that
Chris,
*Graphical programming/data flow graphs are not a programming
methodology. **ICE
is based on a functional style programming like the type you see in Scheme,
Clojure from Google, and even Lisp. This methodology was very much out of
style in the object oriented C++ world of the 90s.
Just giving this a little bump so Chris V. doesn't forget. Hopefully
Andy's subsequent questions also get some answers...
Thanks,
Eric T.
On 3/16/2014 6:42 PM, Eric Thivierge wrote:
Hey Chris,
A few questions:
1. How do you respond to the people who have been long time die hard
Softimage
@chris:
i use pretty much all of the generic general nodes, as i think any user
of ice does.
whether or not people use syflex stuff will depend on if they're doing
syflex specific cloth work.
you understand that this question of which of this list of datatypes do
you use? is a bit ridiculous?
i
Chris, lets err on the side of caution and implement them all, as they will
all be needed at one time or another. The cool thing about ICE is that one
never knows what kind of cool tools another user would dream up. Having all
of the nodes gives us all the ability to create that which doesn't even
1(a):Get Data
1(b):Set Data
On 2014/03/15 07:00 PM, Andy Jones wrote:
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 6:41 AM, Chris Vienneau
chris.vienn...@autodesk.com mailto:chris.vienn...@autodesk.com wrote:
Do you guys think there is a top list of nodes in ICE and
compounds you all use that cover 80% of
Nope
And Bradley put it so well that there is nothing else to say.
At this moment a U turn is the best Autodesk can do.
Its easily done, you fire the guy that took the decision and reinstall
confidence on both parties. Business 101
Jordi Bares
jordiba...@gmail.com
On 15 Mar 2014, at 21:31, Eric Thivierge ethivie...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 5:26 PM, Meng-Yang Lu ntmon...@gmail.com wrote:
Heh,
Or the guy that in the meeting raised his hand and said why we don't kill
Softimage...
The topic was bringing over ICE graphs into Bifrost. We will not show the
Bifrost graph in the first version but if you click here
(https://www.fxguide.com/featured/bifrost-the-return-of-the-naiad-team-with-a-bridge-to-ice/)
you can see what we showed at Siggraph last year in terms of the
Correct me if I am wrong but Bifrost at this moment seems to me that it is
only for fluid sim from that article. What about the rest that ICE is for?
Chris, seriously? yo ad want it all right?
F.
On Sunday, March 16, 2014, Chris Vienneau chris.vienn...@autodesk.com
wrote:
The topic was bringing over ICE graphs into Bifrost. We will not show the
Bifrost graph in the first version but if you click here (
? ad ?
From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
[softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] on behalf of Francisco Criado
[malcriad...@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2014 3:17 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Top List of ICE Nodes That
Hi Chris - Ronald was the main (very gifted) designer and he's now at
Ubisoft, so I'd suggest he's really the key person from the original ICE
team and doesn't work for either AD or Fabric. At Fabric we have Jerome and
Peter who were involved in much of back-end multi-threading work, and Phil
and
Thanks Paul. I think everyone here respects all the hard work everyone put into
ICE and that the whole team did not leave and many of the key people involved
in ICE kept working on what eventually became Bifrost. Bifrost will be launched
this week so people will get their first real glimpse of
you don't have to explain ICE to us, i personally have been using some
incarnation of ICE for about 7 years now. grabbing a list of categories
from the docs and asking us which ones we use the most makes me wonder if
you know what are doing... we need all of those lower level nodes to create
the
Fair enough. I have had this conversation with a few people face to face and it
is obviously easier than a mailing list. Thanks for the thought as it is
consistent with what other people have said.
cv/
From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
Hey Chris,
A few questions:
1. How do you respond to the people who have been long time die hard
Softimage users who have also been exposed to other DCC's, maya
specifically, who have little to no faith in AD being innovative or
responsive to their user base as history has shown. I can give you a
Let me ask a very open question to Paul Doyle. Paul when people say the
creators of ICE work at Fabric do you agree? Many on the Bifrost team would
argue they were just as much a part of it than the hard working guys at
Fabric. I think it is great that there are two companies following this
Uhm.
Actually I know others who say that the key people behind Ice went to a
quite new company which name starts with F and ends with abric Engine.
So someone is wrong here.
About your question.
Actually I think there is not even a single node which should miss in ICE.
Some are redundant and
Say there was a 50/50 split of the ice team.
I would always go with the team that decided to take matters into their own
hands with the confidence to start their own company, rather than the team that
went to work for their competitors- being a company infamous for slow plodding
development and
On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 3:51 PM, Paul Doyle technove...@gmail.com wrote:
What is unclear is how the ICE approach (as a high-level visual programming
paradigm) meshes with Bifrost as publicly shown to date - I expect that is
driving the questions people are raising. Because of that, I think it
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 6:41 AM, Chris Vienneau chris.vienn...@autodesk.com
wrote:
Do you guys think there is a top list of nodes in ICE and compounds you
all use that cover 80% of what you do with the toolset?
Nope
nope.
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Andy Jones andy.jo...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 6:41 AM, Chris Vienneau
chris.vienn...@autodesk.com wrote:
Do you guys think there is a top list of nodes in ICE and compounds you
all use that cover 80% of what you do with the toolset?
Nope sounds about right.
Chris will all due respect. It's like asking how many letters to you need
to say your favorite words.
ICE is an established visual language for the Softimage folk. You can
program with it and it reaches far beyond just simulation.
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 1:00 PM,
Nope.
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Will Robertson tinyeleva...@gmail.comwrote:
nope.
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Andy Jones andy.jo...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 6:41 AM, Chris Vienneau
chris.vienn...@autodesk.com wrote:
Do you guys think there is a top list of
nope.
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Will Robertson tinyeleva...@gmail.comwrote:
nope.
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Andy Jones andy.jo...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 6:41 AM, Chris Vienneau
chris.vienn...@autodesk.com wrote:
Do you guys think there is a top list of
NOPE
From: toddape...@gmail.com
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 13:21:00 -0400
Subject: Re: Top List of ICE Nodes That Cover 80% of What You Do With The
Toolset
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
nope.
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Will Robertson tinyeleva...@gmail.com wrote:
nope.
On Sat,
On a more constructive note:
- Visual debugging tools, I really miss to be able to show values between
connections (vectors, matrices).
- Abstract types? it's kinda embarrasing have to use a plusMinusAverage
node to emulate a vector constant in maya.
- Basic math nodes? like trigonometric
This is what concerns me about the future for where Autodesk takes their DCC
flagships. Bullet-point thinking.
It's not any specific list of ICE nodes that make it so powerful and useful,
rather it's how well it plays within the data structures of the rest of the
application.
Everyone who
Bradley you nailed it with this one, and also points out what really AD
system does look like.. bunch of bullet points of separate marketing ready
features that looks nice on list when you showing it to sales.
The matter that those separate features have little to non meaningful
communications one
Agree with Bradley, +1
2014-03-15 16:55 GMT-03:00 Mirko Jankovic mirkoj.anima...@gmail.com:
Bradley you nailed it with this one, and also points out what really AD
system does look like.. bunch of bullet points of separate marketing ready
features that looks nice on list when you showing it
Bradley is s right, I'm quite surprise about this question, it doesn't
mean anything at all.
It's not really about the nodes, it's how the whole system work.
---
Ahmidou Lyazidi
Director | TD | CG artist
http://vimeo.com/ahmidou/videos
Agree with Bradley, +1nailed it
Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 17:07:34 -0300
Subject: Re: Top List of ICE Nodes That Cover 80% of What You Do With The
Toolset
From: malcriad...@gmail.com
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Agree with Bradley, +1
2014-03-15 16:55 GMT-03:00 Mirko Jankovic
You wrote all that on your phone? :)
On 3/15/2014 1:31 PM, Bradley Gabe wrote:
This is what concerns me about the future for where Autodesk takes
their DCC flagships. Bullet-point thinking.
It's not any specific list of ICE nodes that make it so powerful and
useful, rather it's how well it
I agree 100% with what everyone is saying.
I would like to add that ICE isn't a point and click system, so it's
impossible to give a universal list. There isn't one way to do anything,
just ways that work. Two artists can have a similar result with
drastically different ICE trees.
Imagine that
Bingo.
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Bradley Gabe witha...@gmail.com wrote:
This is what concerns me about the future for where Autodesk takes their
DCC flagships. Bullet-point thinking.
It's not any specific list of ICE nodes that make it so powerful and
useful, rather it's how well it
Get data does 40%
Set data does another 40%
with 20% of various nodes in between
Ice is not exactly an assortment of chocolate sweets...
LOL
Le 15/03/2014 21:10, Ahmidou Lyazidi a écrit :
Bradley is s right, I'm quite surprise about this question, it
doesn't mean anything at all.
Heh, it'd be less work just undo-ing the EOL decision instead of
reinventing the round wheel to a square one.
-Lu
On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 5:26 PM, Meng-Yang Lu ntmon...@gmail.com wrote:
Heh, it'd be less work just undo-ing the EOL decision instead of
reinventing the round wheel to a square one.
But how would that look to stock holders / board members? Confidence would
plummet hard. It would do more
Hi Eric, of course coming back on a decision can have some effect of
board-member/stockholder confidence.
(mostly (or exclusively) looking at daily ups-and downs)
Yet considering how Public Perception can be the main underlying
driver of -confidence-,
and that in turn being the main driver of
Yeah. The question itself, as well-intentioned as it may be, suggests
such a fundamental misapprehension of ICE and why it's useful that it seems
to confirm the worst fears of many of us.
It wasn't a pile of golden eggs, it was the goose. And now it's dead.
Hi, while it was merely to prove a point, I'd like to point out that the
intent was not to equate prematurely retiring software with practicing
poor working standards. Had there been an edit button, I would have
accordingly edited it.
thx
On 03/15/14 23:27, Jason S wrote:
Hi Eric, of course
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