[biofuel] Solid catalyst
Has anybody done any digging on-line? What do we know about this process so far? I must have missed earlier posts, so all I have is the name INEEL and the fact that it involves a solid catalyst. Marc de Piolenc -- Remember September 11, 2001 but don't forget July 4, 1776 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vf6MrB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] More on Caustic Refining of WVO
Ken Provost wrote: For those interested, I've found a better way to refine WVO than what was being discussed a few weeks back. You still use NaOH solution, but very dilute, and lots of it, and you only try to drop the FFA level of the oil by about 1 ml titer -- repeat as often as needed for your oil. My worst stuff these days titrates at around 3.0 ml, and I get good results (using mostly ethanol for my biodiesel reaction) with oil = 1.0, so I have to do it twice. Equal parts warm oil and warm 0.1% NaOH solution, stir gently, let settle, and drain. I still like the cat litter step at the end, and of course you have to boil it dry. Someone (Keith?) mentioned 9 ml titer oil (!!). I would either pass that stuff up, or patiently have to repeat my process 8 times.but it works, and virtually NO loss in emulsion. Hi Ken Yeah, 'twas I that had 9 ml titration oil - closer to 10, actually. Yuk. Actually I did manage to make biod with it, I had to use a lot of methanol though, and the production rate wasn't exactly brilliant. I tried your earlier method of FFA reduction with that oil but it was hopelessly soapy, I couldn't do anything with it, gave it up. I tried this latest method with some other oil, not quite as yucky - only (?) 6.2 ml titration. I probably overdid the warm bit - I warmed both oil and water before mixing to 50 deg C, mixed, stirred gently, settled and drained, and boiled off the water (which took a while). The titration came down to 4.9 ml, a 1.3 reduction. I tried it again, same 6.2 oil, warmed to 35 deg C instead of 50, and this brought it down to 4.1 ml, a 2.1 ml reduction. I suppose the steps might get smaller as you get closer to 1.0, but this indicates you might need fewer than 8 steps with 9ml oil. I'll leave that to conjecture, I'm not too keen on getting any more oil like that. I'll do it again when I have the time and compare the production rates with and without this technique, which I didn't manage to do this time (ran out of oil), but, apart from your needs making ethyl esters, I'd guess it might be worth it as a pre-processing stage for high-FFA oil using the normal methanol/lye method, and make the process easier of course. Useful technique, thankyou! Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vf6MrB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Solid catalyst,
Laboratories such as INEEL usually develop industrial processes, obtain a patent for the process, then sell it to the highest bidder for continued funding of the laboratory. In this case, I would bet that the purchaser was one of the seven sisters, who promptly buried the book as deep as they could, in order to protect their established petroleum-based business. Many such events are known to have happened in the past. Andy Stepkowski Santa Cruz, Bolivia [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 12:48 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Solid catalyst, From: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_link.html US Department of Energy Idaho National Engineering and Environmental Laboratory (INEEL) scientists have developed a new method that produces a higher grade biodiesel with less waste at a lower cost and in much less time. The process, using used French fry oil, is continuous, with no wastewater, producing a cleaner, higher grade of both biodiesel and glycerine. The much higher quality glycerine produced by the new process is valuable -- close to US$10 per gallon. The researchers say sales of the glycerine could pay for the entire process, making the price of biodiesel around the same as regular petrodiesel in the US. http://ens.lycos.com/ens/mar99/1999L-03-11-02.html The researchers' names are Bob Fox and Dan Ginosar. The story was posted nearly three years ago. It's been discussed here several times (see archives). When last heard about they were still negotiating for commercial funding, one can't help wondering why it's taking so long if it's such a promising process. Maybe somebody nearby would like to check with them? They've been friendly and approachable in the past, just won't tell you the secret. Here's another one: A new process developed at the University of Toronto speeds the manufacturing process and reduces both the construction and capital costs of biodiesel production facilities. Production time is reduced from 2-4 hours to seven minutes in a continuous production process. (Email Prof. Dave Boocock [EMAIL PROTECTED]) See: Technology -- New Process Cuts Time, Costs: http://www.biodiesel.org/bio_reports/junbdreport.htm Process now licensed to BIOX for commercial production: http://www.bioxcorp.com/ Also discussed here several times, with some good info posted (see BIOX in archives). Meanwhile, re production revolutions, while the INEEL lead-to-gold process has languished, if indeed that's what it's doing, ENERGIES... week of December 30, 2001 (posted to the list yesterday) reports a 40-fold biodiesel production increase in the US over the last two years - from half a million gallons of B-100 shipped in 1999 to 20 million in 2001. Not bad. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ In my humble opinion, the process described seems the counterpart to the alchemists recipe for turning lead into gold. A process as described would, as Dana said, revolutionize production. Count me into the subject, though I don´t know what you´re implying with this. Sure, when I find some time, I´ll try to look it up. Any hints regarding a little more detail on the process, or where it came from?... just so as to get started. I was currently trying to do some testing with hydrochloric and ethanol.. but my whole first attempt processor project (traditional NaOH Meth recipe) is currently quite delayed due to the fact that all imported goods have gone up by 40% in the past week (due to the currency problems here in Argentina). Hope to hear more on the subject Regards, Christian - Original Message - From: Dana Linscott [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, January 07, 2002 11:30 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Solid catalyst, Arne, I have not heard any further info on the process you describe. Of course this type of continuous process biodiesel/glycerin production would REVOLUTIONIZE home production of BD if made available. It would also work well in conjunction with the inexpensive WVO/SVO processing modules I am attempting to design and integrate. As I stated before even a very expensive catalyst module would pay for itself if shared by a group of users to maximize its use either by forming a cooperative around a shared WVO/SVO/biodiesel processor or by shipping the expensive catalyst module from one (otherwise inexpensive) home processor to another. I believe that this deserves more thorough investigation. Unfortunately, as you can see from my recent posts I already have a rather full plate. If there are three or four others that are willing to join forces to dig deeper I am more than willing to contribute to the effort as best I can. alarge oart of my living hinges on gathering
[biofuel] Solid Catalyst
Or rather no catalyst have a look at http://www.bioproducts-bioenergy.gov/pdfs/bcota/abstracts/19/z191.pdf having a go at a processor but I don't think ill stand too close while I pump the methanol into a 350degrees C tank at 4000PSI ;-) hope this was a uni professor and not a bored 12YO writing for fun!! Regards JohnH Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Solid catalyst KGPE
To all, Thx all for the posts on solid cat. I think I recall something from one of my classes (courses?) (...whatever they«re called), this year. In some place it mentioned the use of potassium methoxide (KGME, or CH3-O-CH2-CH2-OK) and KGPE (Potassium Glyme Poly Ethilene). I think it was used in some dechlorination process for PCBs. The point is that KGPE is something like this: KO-[-CH2-CH2-]n-CH2-CH2-O-K (I think this was what the molecule looked like) Being the sodium methoxide the catalyst in the traditional Mike Pelly recipe (though I«ve never liked the word catalyst here, «cause the methoxide DOES react with the oil), couldn«t it be possible that the misterious catalyst mentioned in this whole discussion on solid catalysts, is in fact something like KGPE, or maybe NaGPE? Someone mentioned it was a polymer. Plus, the chemical properties of sucha a polymer shouldn«t differ that much from traditional methoxide. Then again, I wouldn«t see why this KGME wouldn«t react and dissappear (thus, not being a catalyst at all)- Please let me know if this polymer stuff rings a bell somewhere. If so, I«ll do a bit more research on this KGPE stuff. Regards, Christian - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 1:48 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Solid catalyst, The Fox-Ginosar process (INEEL) apparently uses a polymer. I posted this to the list a long time ago, I don't know if anyone ever picked it up: A message from Mike Pelly re solid phase catalysts: I have been getting ready to pick up some of that type of catalysts but have not till now. Not sure just what worked. I understand a chemical that is called Dowex works too. (Also need to retrofit my processor to make it happen.) I'm writing to pass along to you an idea I have on using a solid phase catalyst without going through the process of gluing it in place. My plans are to contain it in a tube that has screens with mesh finer than the catalyst at either end. The grease and alcohol is pumped through this in-line (filter-type) device. In simplistic terms it would be like placing the catalysts between two sink faucet screens and plumbing it in-line on a reactor like the one Dale Scroggins built. Also the part with unions at both ends, could be easily removed for easy cleaning, back flushing and recharging of catalyst. David Reid posted this: Points to start and research: (From the Woollatt book but remember published 1985). Bleaching and the treatment of Distillates with ion-exchange resins to upgrade quality : initial bleaching with 0.2-2.0% activated carbon ion-exchange resins from Rohm and Haas instead of or after a.c. [Macrorecticular resins (which have large discrete pores capable of removing relatively large molecular mass compounds from the liquid) are normally best for this duty which demands the removal of organic, rather than ionic, impurities ]. Sound ideal in this instance to me. eg: Amberlite 200 or 200C - strong cation resin . Amberlite IRA-93 - weak base anion resin. Amberlite IRA-900 - strong base anion resin Deodorization, using heat and open steam, under vacuum, following treatment often necessary. Production of refined grades of glycerine without distillation: Ion exclusion: process developed by Dow Chemical Co and reviewed in paper by D'Souza (1979) using a bed of granular resin such as Dowex WX8 allowed partial purification which could then be completed by ion-exchange. Ion-exchange process sounds okay but regeneration using hydrochloric or sulphuric acids for the cation resins and caustic soda for the anion resin dosnt sound really feasible or realistic for a small plant. Would also not be economic I believe. Lever Bros installed a plant in L.A. designed by Illinois Water Treatment Co in 1951 but would seriously doubt this was still in operation. Dosnt sound too promising. Distillation still seems to be the preferred method. Reverse Osmosis also dosnt sound too promising although there could have been developments in the last 15 years. Refs: Sourirajan and Kimura (1967), review Sourirajan and Matsuura (1982). This is also from Mike Pelly: From: Goltz, Bob (HR) To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: Base catalyzed esterification Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 11:28:27 -0400 Mike Pelly...Thanks for your inquiry. Since you are running this reaction as base catalyzed, I think the product you need is DOWEX 1X2 in the OH form. This product comes in several particle sizes... 50-100, 100-200 and 200-400 mesh. I suggest you try the 50-100 mesh as it will give the lowest pressure drop and still offer short diffusional paths. The resin will catalyze this reaction as long as the resin is in the OH form. If the resin picks up chloride or other anions, it will sto working as a catalyst. To restore the DOWEX 1X2 capacity, it can be washed with NaOH as directed in the literature. More
[biofuel] Government and automakers to back fuel cell vehicles
- Studying future uses of hydrogen is legitimate research, but it's a smokescreen, John DeCicco, a senior fellow with Environmental Defense. It's using legitimate future research needs to hide the fact the Japanese have beaten the pants off them for delivering the goods to the marketplace. http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/13943/story.htm Planet Ark Environmental News: AUTOSHOW - Government and automakers to back fuel cell vehicles USA: January 8, 2002 DETROIT - The U.S. government has agreed to a program with major automakers to promote the development of hydrogen as an alternative fuel for cars and trucks, as part of efforts to reduce American dependence on foreign oil. U.S. Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham said on Monday he would announce the program on Wednesday with the heads of General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and the Chrysler arm of DaimlerChrysler AG, who have gathered in Detroit this week for the industry's annual auto show. Under the program, expected to be called Freedom Car, the government will fund research into fuel cells, which use hydrogen to produce electricity without creating pollution as gasoline engines do. That would be a major achievement, said Thad Malesh, director of alternative power technologies practice with J.D. Power and Associates, an automotive industry consulting group. Without their (government) involvement, it means the industry is out there blowing in the breeze. The deal will also advance different ways of handling hydrogen and creating an infrastructure to make the fuel widely available. Automakers have been spending billions of dollars on research to develop fuel cells as an eventual replacement for gasoline-powered combustion engines, which have powered cars for 100 years. But a big hurdle for the widespread adoption of fuel cell vehicles is the need for an infrastructure to make hydrogen more available - a replacement for the gasoline station found along most roads. The more certain we are about the infrastructure, the more aggressive we can be about the cars. Bottom line - (the government is a) huge force in what we're talking about, said Byron McCormick, GM's executive director for fuel-cell activities. American drivers now burn about 370 million gallons of gasoline a day in passenger vehicles, which is projected to grow to 433 million gallons over the next decade if fuel economy does not improve, according to the U.S. government. Last year, passenger vehicle engines created 284 million metric tons of carbon dioxide gas, a major contributor to global warming. Having more cars on the road that run on fuel cells would reduce gasoline consumption, which accounts for 44 percent of total U.S. demand for petroleum products. The cars should help reduce U.S. dependence on foreign oil, which accounts for 60 percent of America's petroleum supply. The Freedom Car program, focusing on fuel cells, will replace the Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles program, a multibillion-dollar research effort between automakers and the U.S. government that sought to develop an affordable gasoline-burning family sedan capable of getting 80 miles per gallon by 2004. Automakers have succeeded in building a few highly fuel-efficient cars, but they would cost several thousand dollars more than comparably-priced vehicles if they went on sale, according to a government report. The Bush administration proposed last year to slash the program's $141 million research budget within the Energy Department by $40 million, but Congress restored most of the funding. The Freedom Car program comes as automakers fight tougher federal fuel economy requirements under consideration in Congress. Meanwhile, Japanese automakers have already begun selling high-mileage hybrid vehicles, which are powered by a small gasoline engine and an electric motor. Environmentalists have pushed for higher mileage standards and wider uses of hybrid power, but many automakers contend the mileage standards do little to curb fuel consumption, and that hybrids are too expensive currently for mass production. Studying future uses of hydrogen is legitimate research, but it's a smokescreen, John DeCicco, a senior fellow with Environmental Defense. It's using legitimate future research needs to hide the fact the Japanese have beaten the pants off them for delivering the goods to the marketplace. Story by Michael Ellis and Justin Hyde REUTERS NEWS SERVICE http://www.nytimes.com/2002/01/09/business/09FUEL.html U.S. Ends Car Plan on Gas Efficiency; Looks to Fuel Cells By NEELA BANERJEE with DANNY HAKIM The Bush administration is walking away from a $1.5 billion eight- year government-subsidized project to develop high-mileage gasoline- fueled vehicles. Instead it is throwing its support behind a plan that the Energy Department and the auto industry have devised to develop hydrogen-based fuel cells to power the cars of the
[biofuel] HCl (again)
Yesterday, just for the sake of it, I tried this out: .- Poured some alcohol through jelly (remember my post on dehydrating ethanol?). I have no way to know what the final content of water was after drying it with jelly, and for the process I«m about to describe, it probably wasn«t even necessary, but still.- .- Gathered 2 ml EtOH in a test tube. .- Mixed with 12 ml new sunflower oil .- Added (0,5ml?... or less... didn«t measure) of Muriatic Acid (35% HCl in water) Then heated at about 57 degrees, mixing for about an hour. I built a mixer out of a washing machine little 5W 220V motor, and a flat rod of stainless steel (like the type used as oil gauges, in the block of car engines). I also have a tea cup warmer (sort of a fancy resistance heater-plate on which to leave your cup of coffe). I found out that this plate maintains a 250 ml Erlenmeyer full of water at about 57 degrees celsius. So I inmersed my BD test tube in a water filled Erlenmeyer, and with the stirrer (clamped to a retort stand) in it for about an hour, and left it to settle overnight. The result: After a night settling, I can see about 2ml of a very pale yellow not-so-dense liquid (Anyone who can tell me if this is BD???) The rest (about 12 ml) is a murky white-ish stuff... (sort of like glycerin?), resting below the supposed-BD. I guess this could be it: CH-O-CO---R CH2OH CH2-O-CO-R + CH3CH2OH --(HCl, 57¡)-- CHOH + 3 R-OC-O-CH2CH3 CHO-C-O---R CH2OH PLUS: If anyone«s interested, I also made a batch of H2SO4 (Sulphuric Acid), by electrolysis of iron sulphate solution. I still have a lot of colloidal iron, but pH is down to about 2 or less. Best to you all, Christian [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vf6MrB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Happy everything
Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc:(bcc: Joseph Martelle/US/GM/GMC) Subject: [biofuel] Happy everything Merry Christmas to all celebrating Christmas, happy holidays to the lucky ones on holiday, and peace and goodwill to everyone. From Keith and Midori at Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Thank You, Keith. And how perceptive of you to realise that not every one celebrates Christmas. Happy Hannukah to you! I know it's a bit late, but there it is. I have been quiet as of late and not posting much due to time constraints. My daughter was born on January 2nd. and I am just now getting back to the computer. Would you beleive there were 300 emails I had to wade through? WOW! I have almost finished my propane tank BD processor. The 10 gpm pump makes a nice vortex in the oil. I have yet to repair and hook up the vacuum pump. Maybe soon. Warm regards, Joe Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Toxic fertilizers - was Re: [biofuel] Solid catalyst,
Hi Ed Also a Mother Jones article a little while ago citing this - fertilizer being used as a carrier for cheap disposal of toxics. Spread it all over our farmlands in small concentrations instead of paying to have it properly disposed of. (Yikes!) Yep. Most of the original investigations and publication were done by the Seattle Times. I'll post some links below. I think it's time to start looking seriously at the role of seedcake pellets that emerge from cold presses as hard pellets, with probably twice the oil content of those from solvent extraction facilities, ready for use as organic fertilizer. All the organic folks that are running diesels in their operations should, as a matter of principle, be integrating these biofuels and biolubricants and organic seedcake pellets ideas into their work. Hear hear - we all like to say how nice and green biofuels are, but there's not enough thought given to maintaining the fertility of the soils that produce them. snip another. And we see the results in terms of our health. Sooner - or later. But I digress... Not a digression - everything's connected to everything else. There's not enough thought given to this either, IMO. Rising tides of asthma, bronchitis, chest complaints, allergies, etc etc etc - the issues you raise - were very much at issue in Hong Kong and its failure to deal with rising air-pollution, mainly diesel pollution; people were leaving, tourists weren't coming, businesses were relocating, thousands of people were meeting premature deaths every year, and biodiesel could have very largely fixed that. I understand nothing's changed in the last couple of years. In other words it'll have got worse. http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_hk.html Toxic fertilizer refs: The Seattle Times, Local News, Friday, July 04, 1997: Throughout the country, example after example of hazardous wastes being turned into fertilizer The Seattle Times, Local News, Thursday, March 26, 1998: Toxic waste: 270 million pounds on farm fields http://www.ewg.org/pressstories/seattletimes01292001.html Take toxins out of fertilizer, 29 Jan 2001 http://www.seventhgen.com/html/recentnews.html#story01 A Fateful Harvest And A Cautionary Tale Faithful readers will remember that a few issues back we reviewed a new book called Fateful Harvest, the True Story of a Small Town, a Global Industry, and a Toxic Secret, by Duff Wilson. The book follows an investigative trail of secrets and sickness from a single small town to the headquarters of global fertilizer companies that are covertly adding toxic waste to their products. It's a stunning tale and one that's really about much more than fertilizer. http://pirg.org/toxics/reports/wastelands/index.html#exec Waste Lands: The Threat Of Toxic Fertilizer http://ens.lycos.com/ens/nov99/1999l-11-24-02.html Environmental News Service -- Smelter Toxics Served at Dinner via Crop Fertilizers http://ens.lycos.com/ens/may2001/2001L-05-07-06.html Environment News Service: Toxic Wastes Found in Fertilizers Toxic Waste in Fertilizer Main Page http://www.watoxics.org/tf.htm Duff Wilson's Fateful Harvest Book Release and Promotional Book Tour http://www.watoxics.org/tfdw.htm Background Information on Toxic Waste in Fertilizer http://www.watoxics.org/tfbk.htm Public Health and Environmental Concerns http://www.watoxics.org/tfh.htm Washington Fertilizer Politics http://www.watoxics.org/tfp.htm Farmers' Stories http://www.watoxics.org/tff.htm Media Reports and Other Resources http://www.watoxics.org/tfm.htm Toxic Waste in Fertilizer Action Alert http://www.watoxics.org/uaNatFert.htm Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Edward Beggs www.biofuels.ca From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 13:48:24 +0900 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Solid catalyst, goat industries [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, Dana, there are people interested in finding greener recipes for making biodiesel. They do seem to exist but are generally highly guarded industrial secrets. I got a bit disallusioned by the polluting effect of the basic methanol/lye method as it produces a lot of mirky water in the refining process which is a problem to serious biodiesel producers as the local environment agency (UK) is highly officious and very fond of imposing large fines on businesses that cause pollution. I am currently researching other methods. Sounds like it's your highly officious local UK environment agency you should be getting a bit disillusioned with rather than the polluting effect of the method, which was discussed here a month or two ago and would seem to be more of a molehill than a mountain. Is it really worse than soapy residues etc from dishwasher, laundry detergents, bathwater? Aleks detailed the contents of the waste water (pretty innocuous) and said there's no
RE: [biofuel] Solid catalyst,
Laboratories such as INEEL usually develop industrial processes, obtain a patent for the process, then sell it to the highest bidder for continued funding of the laboratory. In this case, I would bet that the purchaser was one of the seven sisters, who promptly buried the book as deep as they could, in order to protect their established petroleum-based business. Many such events are known to have happened in the past. Andy Stepkowski Santa Cruz, Bolivia [EMAIL PROTECTED] David said the patent's owned by Lockheed Martin Idaho Technologies Company. Not a Seven Sister (though sure, they're all in each others' pockets). Lockheed Martin has done a lot of work with hybrids. I doubt they'd wantt to bury this as a threat to their interests. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 12:48 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Solid catalyst, From: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_link.html US Department of Energy Idaho National Engineering and Environmental Laboratory (INEEL) scientists have developed a new method that produces a higher grade biodiesel with less waste at a lower cost and in much less time. The process, using used French fry oil, is continuous, with no wastewater, producing a cleaner, higher grade of both biodiesel and glycerine. The much higher quality glycerine produced by the new process is valuable -- close to US$10 per gallon. The researchers say sales of the glycerine could pay for the entire process, making the price of biodiesel around the same as regular petrodiesel in the US. http://ens.lycos.com/ens/mar99/1999L-03-11-02.html The researchers' names are Bob Fox and Dan Ginosar. The story was posted nearly three years ago. It's been discussed here several times (see archives). When last heard about they were still negotiating for commercial funding, one can't help wondering why it's taking so long if it's such a promising process. Maybe somebody nearby would like to check with them? They've been friendly and approachable in the past, just won't tell you the secret. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Got a Truck!!!
Okay, While I am in mid purchase of a 1983 Ford Ranger with a Mazda 2.2 litre diesel engine, I am hoping if there is someone out there who can answer some questions that I have. To start, does anyone know if there is a shop or garage that would have parts for this little beast? The closer to Minnesota the better (Dana?). In the event that there are repairs or a new engine is required I would like to have a one stop for either. Secondly, Does anyone know what kind of injector pump this may have. The position of the pump does not make it easy to see the information placard. Finally, I would like to thank everyone for all of the information I have not decided if I want to make my own Biodiesel or convert to SVO or both. All I know is I have a place to start and a truck to start it with. (--- notice the typical MN ending on a sentance with a preposition) fred in MN (where the winter is non-existant this year!!!) Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Happy everything
Hi there Joe Wonderful - a New Year daughter, or near as dammit. Hope all's exceeding well with her, with mum, and with your good self. Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc:(bcc: Joseph Martelle/US/GM/GMC) Subject: [biofuel] Happy everything Merry Christmas to all celebrating Christmas, happy holidays to the lucky ones on holiday, and peace and goodwill to everyone. From Keith and Midori at Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Thank You, Keith. And how perceptive of you to realise that not every one celebrates Christmas. Thanks for noticing - but I've been a foreigner for so long I can't help being aware of such things. The Japanese are into Christmas though, in a weirdly Japanese sort of way. Christmas Eve is a holiday, but everyone works on Christmas Day. Not much religion in it, if any, but it all fits in very well with the Japanese mania for giving each other presents - there's an entire shopping mall in Tokyo devoted entirely to Christmas gift shops, wait for it, ALL YEAR ROUND!! :-) Happy Hannukah to you! I know it's a bit late, but there it is. Thankyou, never mind late. I have been quiet as of late and not posting much due to time constraints. My daughter was born on January 2nd. and I am just now getting back to the computer. Would you beleive there were 300 emails I had to wade through? WOW! I have almost finished my propane tank BD processor. The 10 gpm pump makes a nice vortex in the oil. I have yet to repair and hook up the vacuum pump. Maybe soon. Keep us posted, send me some piccies if you have any? Warm regards, Joe And to you - all best Keith Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] UK environment agency
Kieth, thanks for your encouragement and comments on possible biodisel pollution. I have it on good authority that the UK environment agency require a 'bribe' of approx $USD 30,000 to analyse possible pollution. If biodiesel plant dischaeges mirky water into the water system here without authority big fines are payable, whether it's biodegradable or not. The UK is a very polluted place and, being a small island, nowhere is far from the coast. Personally I don't blame the authorities for taking a tough stance. If a biodiesel factory was discharging mirky water on my favorite beach I would not be happy, being a keen windsurfer. There's already a huge sewerage problem all round the coast and most rivers are already full of all kinds of crap. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Mercedes 300TDT/SVO FS
My 83 Mercedes 300TDT (tuirbo diesel station wagon) on SVO is up for grabs. All gauges are in metric only, it was a direct German import, so as far as I know, it would a bit difficult but not impossible, to sell in to the US. Maybe it could, with an instrument cluster change. That's how my Westy Multivan got its green card, and now lives near Chicago). I am moving up to a newer TDI as I expect to be on the road a lot the next few years. ~ 230km on it. Almost completely rust free example. Jump on WestJet (in Canada) or Horizon (direct from Seattle) and come and get it, it won't last @ $7900 Canadian. (~ $5000 US). More pics on site soon. Contact me off list at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] for details Thanks all. Edward Beggs www.biofuels.ca Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- FREE COLLEGE MONEY CLICK HERE to search 600,000 scholarships! http://us.click.yahoo.com/vf6MrB/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Mercedes 300TDT/SVO FS
Does your acquisition of a newer Tdi mean you'll be testing SVO in a direct-injection engine for us? Craig Neoteric Biofuels Inc. wrote: My 83 Mercedes 300TDT (tuirbo diesel station wagon) on SVO is up for grabs. All gauges are in metric only, it was a direct German import, so as far as I know, it would a bit difficult but not impossible, to sell in to the US. Maybe it could, with an instrument cluster change. That's how my Westy Multivan got its green card, and now lives near Chicago). I am moving up to a newer TDI as I expect to be on the road a lot the next few years. ~ 230km on it. Almost completely rust free example. Jump on WestJet (in Canada) or Horizon (direct from Seattle) and come and get it, it won't last @ $7900 Canadian. (~ $5000 US). More pics on site soon. Contact me off list at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] for details Thanks all. Edward Beggs www.biofuels.ca Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Mercedes 300TDT/SVO FS
That's two of us, then (plus Steve's buddy.) Who's going to be the first to try 9% ethanol? Craig Neoteric Biofuels Inc. wrote: Probably in some form, yes. Edward Beggs PS: Check out (in a day or two) the new underhood mini glycol heat exchanger - should be installed and pictures on the site in the next few days. $65 US. Will be installed in conjunction with 12VVEG-Therm to give a simple to install combined approach. www.biofuels.ca From: craig reece [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 13:37:29 -0800 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Mercedes 300TDT/SVO FS Does your acquisition of a newer Tdi mean you'll be testing SVO in a direct-injection engine for us? Craig Neoteric Biofuels Inc. wrote: My 83 Mercedes 300TDT (tuirbo diesel station wagon) on SVO is up for grabs. All gauges are in metric only, it was a direct German import, so as far as I know, it would a bit difficult but not impossible, to sell in to the US. Maybe it could, with an instrument cluster change. That's how my Westy Multivan got its green card, and now lives near Chicago). I am moving up to a newer TDI as I expect to be on the road a lot the next few years. ~ 230km on it. Almost completely rust free example. Jump on WestJet (in Canada) or Horizon (direct from Seattle) and come and get it, it won't last @ $7900 Canadian. (~ $5000 US). More pics on site soon. Contact me off list at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] for details Thanks all. Edward Beggs www.biofuels.ca Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Mercedes 300TDT/SVO FS
Check it for stability. From: craig reece [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 14:35:18 -0800 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Mercedes 300TDT/SVO FS That's two of us, then (plus Steve's buddy.) Who's going to be the first to try 9% ethanol? Craig Neoteric Biofuels Inc. wrote: Probably in some form, yes. Edward Beggs PS: Check out (in a day or two) the new underhood mini glycol heat exchanger - should be installed and pictures on the site in the next few days. $65 US. Will be installed in conjunction with 12VVEG-Therm to give a simple to install combined approach. www.biofuels.ca From: craig reece [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 13:37:29 -0800 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Mercedes 300TDT/SVO FS Does your acquisition of a newer Tdi mean you'll be testing SVO in a direct-injection engine for us? Craig Neoteric Biofuels Inc. wrote: My 83 Mercedes 300TDT (tuirbo diesel station wagon) on SVO is up for grabs. All gauges are in metric only, it was a direct German import, so as far as I know, it would a bit difficult but not impossible, to sell in to the US. Maybe it could, with an instrument cluster change. That's how my Westy Multivan got its green card, and now lives near Chicago). I am moving up to a newer TDI as I expect to be on the road a lot the next few years. ~ 230km on it. Almost completely rust free example. Jump on WestJet (in Canada) or Horizon (direct from Seattle) and come and get it, it won't last @ $7900 Canadian. (~ $5000 US). More pics on site soon. Contact me off list at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] for details Thanks all. Edward Beggs www.biofuels.ca Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Mercedes 300TDT/SVO FS
Ed, Check the ethanol for stability? How does one do that? Craig Neoteric Biofuels Inc. wrote: Check it for stability. From: craig reece [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 14:35:18 -0800 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Mercedes 300TDT/SVO FS That's two of us, then (plus Steve's buddy.) Who's going to be the first to try 9% ethanol? Craig Neoteric Biofuels Inc. wrote: Probably in some form, yes. Edward Beggs PS: Check out (in a day or two) the new underhood mini glycol heat exchanger - should be installed and pictures on the site in the next few days. $65 US. Will be installed in conjunction with 12VVEG-Therm to give a simple to install combined approach. www.biofuels.ca From: craig reece [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 13:37:29 -0800 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Mercedes 300TDT/SVO FS Does your acquisition of a newer Tdi mean you'll be testing SVO in a direct-injection engine for us? Craig Neoteric Biofuels Inc. wrote: My 83 Mercedes 300TDT (tuirbo diesel station wagon) on SVO is up for grabs. All gauges are in metric only, it was a direct German import, so as far as I know, it would a bit difficult but not impossible, to sell in to the US. Maybe it could, with an instrument cluster change. That's how my Westy Multivan got its green card, and now lives near Chicago). I am moving up to a newer TDI as I expect to be on the road a lot the next few years. ~ 230km on it. Almost completely rust free example. Jump on WestJet (in Canada) or Horizon (direct from Seattle) and come and get it, it won't last @ $7900 Canadian. (~ $5000 US). More pics on site soon. Contact me off list at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] for details Thanks all. Edward Beggs www.biofuels.ca Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Mercedes 300TDT/SVO FS
Sorry, no I mean check the mixture. Does it separate (i.e. can you get a stable emulsion/mix. How how long? Fuel stability is usually 6 months minimum. How long can be obtained for just a simple vegoil/ ethanol mix? I am not sure and have not had a chance to try it yet. Edward Beggs www.biofuels.ca From: craig reece [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 14:59:39 -0800 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Mercedes 300TDT/SVO FS Ed, Check the ethanol for stability? How does one do that? Craig Neoteric Biofuels Inc. wrote: Check it for stability. From: craig reece [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 14:35:18 -0800 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Mercedes 300TDT/SVO FS That's two of us, then (plus Steve's buddy.) Who's going to be the first to try 9% ethanol? Craig Neoteric Biofuels Inc. wrote: Probably in some form, yes. Edward Beggs PS: Check out (in a day or two) the new underhood mini glycol heat exchanger - should be installed and pictures on the site in the next few days. $65 US. Will be installed in conjunction with 12VVEG-Therm to give a simple to install combined approach. www.biofuels.ca From: craig reece [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 13:37:29 -0800 To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Mercedes 300TDT/SVO FS Does your acquisition of a newer Tdi mean you'll be testing SVO in a direct-injection engine for us? Craig Neoteric Biofuels Inc. wrote: My 83 Mercedes 300TDT (tuirbo diesel station wagon) on SVO is up for grabs. All gauges are in metric only, it was a direct German import, so as far as I know, it would a bit difficult but not impossible, to sell in to the US. Maybe it could, with an instrument cluster change. That's how my Westy Multivan got its green card, and now lives near Chicago). I am moving up to a newer TDI as I expect to be on the road a lot the next few years. ~ 230km on it. Almost completely rust free example. Jump on WestJet (in Canada) or Horizon (direct from Seattle) and come and get it, it won't last @ $7900 Canadian. (~ $5000 US). More pics on site soon. Contact me off list at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] for details Thanks all. Edward Beggs www.biofuels.ca Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: UK environment agency
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], goat industries [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kieth, thanks for your encouragement and comments on possible biodisel pollution. I have it on good authority that the UK environment agency require a 'bribe' of approx $USD 30,000 to analyse possible pollution. If biodiesel plant dischaeges mirky water into the water system here without authority big fines are payable, whether it's biodegradable or not. The UK is a very polluted place and, being a small island, nowhere is far from the coast. Personally I don't blame the authorities for taking a tough stance. If a biodiesel factory was discharging mirky water on my favorite beach I would not be happy, being a keen windsurfer. There's already a huge sewerage problem all round the coast and most rivers are already full of all kinds of crap. But somehow it becomes acceptable if one pays the $30,000 in advance? I come across the same type of logic in trucking regulations. If a particular load is 2 feet wider that normally allowed, there are severe fines to carry it, because of the severe danger to the motoring public. However, if you purchase an oversized load permit for $25 dollars, you may go about your business quite safely. Your fellow motorists can somehow KNOW that you have got a permit and are no longer a danger. The same applies to very heavy loads. The fines are very severe due to the immense damage done to public roadways. If the driver has purchased a 'permit' for $25 somehow the laws of gravity are repealed and the truck is no longer damaging? ?? Motie Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] UK environment agency
Could the murky water left over from the production of biodiesel be distilled? If it could it would at least reduce the volume to contend with. George [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kieth, thanks for your encouragement and comments on possible biodisel pollution. I have it on good authority that the UK environment agency require a 'bribe' of approx $USD 30,000 to analyse possible pollution. If biodiesel plant dischaeges mirky water into the water system here without authority big fines are payable, whether it's biodegradable or not. The UK is a very polluted place and, being a small island, nowhere is far from the coast. Personally I don't blame the authorities for taking a tough stance. If a biodiesel factory was discharging mirky water on my favorite beach I would not be happy, being a keen windsurfer. There's already a huge sewerage problem all round the coast and most rivers are already full of all kinds of crap. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT http://rd.yahoo.com/M=215002.1818248.3328688.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705083269:HM/A=847665/R=0/*http://ads.x10.com/?bHlhaG9vbW9uc3RlcjcuZGF0=1010610043%3eM=215002.1818248.3328688.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705083269:HM/A=847665/R=1 Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Solid Catalyst
Re the solid catalyst that was presumedly developed at Idaho National Energy Lab about three years ago. How much info was divulged at the time and was any attempt ever made to patent the technology? Patent laws change, but the last time I looked at it, after a public disclosure, the inventor has one year to initiate a patent application. If after a year has elapsed and no attempt is made to patent it, the technology everts to the public domain. One of the issues a government contractor lab would want to avoid would be to avoid the appearance of preferential treatment. If the technology were of critical importance in an industry, such as it is alleged is the case here, one way to avoid that appearance of preferential treatment would be to let the technology revert into the public domain. Alternatively, if the technology were patented, and the technology was not of any particular value to an Agency mission program, why risk the charge of preferential treatment by, say, allowing one of the big eight to buy and bury it? Then, in addition, there are some misguided government people who think the best way to put the technology to the greatest use is to allow anyone to use and profit from it. Methinks they probably know better, but this position suits their purpose, which, as indicated, is to avoid being put in a position of being accused of preferential treatment. I suggest do a search to determine whether the invention has been sufficiently disclosed, followed by an elapsed time of at least one year, to cause the invention to revert to the public domain. Since you have the name of the inventors, do a literature search to see what turns up. The procedure used to be, when I worked at a national lab as a development engineer, to submit the disclosure to the government contractor patent ofifice, to see whether the government wanted to patent the idea. If it wasn't strictly mission related, chances are the government wasn't interested. Then, if sufficiently interested, the inventor had to option of requesting that he be allowed to patent same as in individual. Given the urge to publish, the invention usually had been disclosed in the open literature early in the process. The government then had a choice: allow the individual to patent, or allow the patent to revert into the publc domain, by delaying any decision until 12 months after the disclosure. I remember one case, the Higgins Ion Exchange Column, where the government allowed Higgins to patent, which he did. Shortly thereafter he left the employ of the government contractor and developed a profitable business marketing his exchange column. If this solid catalyst item is as important as it appears to be, the contractor lab could be faced with losing a good man, as in the case of Higgins, if they allow the inventor to patent the solid catalyst invention. I suggest, get in touch with the inventor, offer him a joint venture, and support him in whatever way possible. The invention needs to be patented, because whatever belongs to everyone really belongs to noone. Unless a proprietary position can be developed, I believe there would be little possibility to develop the necessary funding to get this technology into the marketplace. But, given the state of the art that is being developed here, together, with a proprietary position with this patent -- ;who knows what could result? . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Solid Catalyst
Glen, With respect to publicly financed research ending up in the pulbic sector, you expressed contempt at misguided government people who think the best way to put the technology to the greatest use is to allow anyone to use and profit from it. I may have misinterpreted you position, if so correct me, but if I hadn't, please explain your position. In my world, the only place for publicly financed technologies are the public sector. Any other solution hinders futher development, stiffles market forces, and costs the public big time for what they have already in essence paid for. Ted Swarts Kelowna, British Columbia - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 8:07 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Solid Catalyst Re the solid catalyst that was presumedly developed at Idaho National Energy Lab about three years ago. How much info was divulged at the time and was any attempt ever made to patent the technology? Patent laws change, but the last time I looked at it, after a public disclosure, the inventor has one year to initiate a patent application. If after a year has elapsed and no attempt is made to patent it, the technology everts to the public domain. One of the issues a government contractor lab would want to avoid would be to avoid the appearance of preferential treatment. If the technology were of critical importance in an industry, such as it is alleged is the case here, one way to avoid that appearance of preferential treatment would be to let the technology revert into the public domain. Alternatively, if the technology were patented, and the technology was not of any particular value to an Agency mission program, why risk the charge of preferential treatment by, say, allowing one of the big eight to buy and bury it? Then, in addition, there are some misguided government people who think the best way to put the technology to the greatest use is to allow anyone to use and profit from it. Methinks they probably know better, but this position suits their purpose, which, as indicated, is to avoid being put in a position of being accused of preferential treatment. I suggest do a search to determine whether the invention has been sufficiently disclosed, followed by an elapsed time of at least one year, to cause the invention to revert to the public domain. Since you have the name of the inventors, do a literature search to see what turns up. The procedure used to be, when I worked at a national lab as a development engineer, to submit the disclosure to the government contractor patent ofifice, to see whether the government wanted to patent the idea. If it wasn't strictly mission related, chances are the government wasn't interested. Then, if sufficiently interested, the inventor had to option of requesting that he be allowed to patent same as in individual. Given the urge to publish, the invention usually had been disclosed in the open literature early in the process. The government then had a choice: allow the individual to patent, or allow the patent to revert into the publc domain, by delaying any decision until 12 months after the disclosure. I remember one case, the Higgins Ion Exchange Column, where the government allowed Higgins to patent, which he did. Shortly thereafter he left the employ of the government contractor and developed a profitable business marketing his exchange column. If this solid catalyst item is as important as it appears to be, the contractor lab could be faced with losing a good man, as in the case of Higgins, if they allow the inventor to patent the solid catalyst invention. I suggest, get in touch with the inventor, offer him a joint venture, and support him in whatever way possible. The invention needs to be patented, because whatever belongs to everyone really belongs to noone. Unless a proprietary position can be developed, I believe there would be little possibility to develop the necessary funding to get this technology into the marketplace. But, given the state of the art that is being developed here, together, with a proprietary position with this patent -- ;who knows what could result? . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to
Re: [biofuel] Solid Catalyst
Please see David Cruse's message of 1/8/02, Re: [biofuel] Solid catalyst,, message # 10743: The famed Fox/Ginosaur process using a solid catalyst, (which to this date) hasn't been used commercially, is on Delphion.com. I was lucky enough to download a copy of the Fox/Ginosaur patent from the Delphion website before they started charging a fee to access the International Patents. It is at best vague and very careful to be as vague as possible with all the info in the Patent. The Lockheed Martin Idaho Technologies Company is the company that actually owns the Patent and they don't seem to be rushing into production of biodiesel with the process so that should tell you that the process probably isn't all that good ! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/message/10743 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Re the solid catalyst that was presumedly developed at Idaho National Energy Lab about three years ago. How much info was divulged at the time and was any attempt ever made to patent the technology? Patent laws change, but the last time I looked at it, after a public disclosure, the inventor has one year to initiate a patent application. If after a year has elapsed and no attempt is made to patent it, the technology everts to the public domain. One of the issues a government contractor lab would want to avoid would be to avoid the appearance of preferential treatment. If the technology were of critical importance in an industry, such as it is alleged is the case here, one way to avoid that appearance of preferential treatment would be to let the technology revert into the public domain. Alternatively, if the technology were patented, and the technology was not of any particular value to an Agency mission program, why risk the charge of preferential treatment by, say, allowing one of the big eight to buy and bury it? Then, in addition, there are some misguided government people who think the best way to put the technology to the greatest use is to allow anyone to use and profit from it. Methinks they probably know better, but this position suits their purpose, which, as indicated, is to avoid being put in a position of being accused of preferential treatment. I suggest do a search to determine whether the invention has been sufficiently disclosed, followed by an elapsed time of at least one year, to cause the invention to revert to the public domain. Since you have the name of the inventors, do a literature search to see what turns up. The procedure used to be, when I worked at a national lab as a development engineer, to submit the disclosure to the government contractor patent ofifice, to see whether the government wanted to patent the idea. If it wasn't strictly mission related, chances are the government wasn't interested. Then, if sufficiently interested, the inventor had to option of requesting that he be allowed to patent same as in individual. Given the urge to publish, the invention usually had been disclosed in the open literature early in the process. The government then had a choice: allow the individual to patent, or allow the patent to revert into the publc domain, by delaying any decision until 12 months after the disclosure. I remember one case, the Higgins Ion Exchange Column, where the government allowed Higgins to patent, which he did. Shortly thereafter he left the employ of the government contractor and developed a profitable business marketing his exchange column. If this solid catalyst item is as important as it appears to be, the contractor lab could be faced with losing a good man, as in the case of Higgins, if they allow the inventor to patent the solid catalyst invention. I suggest, get in touch with the inventor, offer him a joint venture, and support him in whatever way possible. The invention needs to be patented, because whatever belongs to everyone really belongs to noone. Unless a proprietary position can be developed, I believe there would be little possibility to develop the necessary funding to get this technology into the marketplace. But, given the state of the art that is being developed here, together, with a proprietary position with this patent -- ;who knows what could result? . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] UK environment agency
Could the murky water left over from the production of biodiesel be distilled? If it could it would at least reduce the volume to contend with. George At what energy cost? Bathwater is murky, laundry wash is murky, kitchen waste-water's murky, toilet water's rather more than murky, there's nothing about biodiesel wash to challenge a water treatment works. It's innocuous. It's a molehill, like I said, we don't need an Everest expedition. As Paddy says, there's already a huge (and long-standing) problem with UK water, but it's caused by all kinds of crap, including real crap, not by murky water. It might be a genuine concern to him if he's planning on setting up a more or less large-scale commercial production, but I'd guess that many (most?) other manufacturing processes would just love to have his problem instead, and for the rest of us fuelling one or a few vehicles a week, it's no problem at all. I think a commercial bd plant should have little problem pre-treating washwater before releasing it if it's going to be an issue. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kieth, thanks for your encouragement and comments on possible biodisel pollution. I have it on good authority that the UK environment agency require a 'bribe' of approx $USD 30,000 to analyse possible pollution. If biodiesel plant dischaeges mirky water into the water system here without authority big fines are payable, whether it's biodegradable or not. The UK is a very polluted place and, being a small island, nowhere is far from the coast. Personally I don't blame the authorities for taking a tough stance. If a biodiesel factory was discharging mirky water on my favorite beach I would not be happy, being a keen windsurfer. There's already a huge sewerage problem all round the coast and most rivers are already full of all kinds of crap. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Tiny Wireless Camera under $80! Order Now! FREE VCR Commander! Click Here - Only 1 Day Left! http://us.click.yahoo.com/WoOlbB/7.PDAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Solid catalyst,
In fact since there appears to be more than one way to do this they may race to get it in production before it is made obsolete by something similar hitting the market first. Dana --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Laboratories such as INEEL usually develop industrial processes, obtain a patent for the process, then sell it to the highest bidder for continued funding of the laboratory. In this case, I would bet that the purchaser was one of the seven sisters, who promptly buried the book as deep as they could, in order to protect their established petroleum-based business. Many such events are known to have happened in the past. Andy Stepkowski Santa Cruz, Bolivia [EMAIL PROTECTED] David said the patent's owned by Lockheed Martin Idaho Technologies Company. Not a Seven Sister (though sure, they're all in each others' pockets). Lockheed Martin has done a lot of work with hybrids. I doubt they'd wantt to bury this as a threat to their interests. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 12:48 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Solid catalyst, From: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_link.html US Department of Energy Idaho National Engineering and Environmental Laboratory (INEEL) scientists have developed a new method that produces a higher grade biodiesel with less waste at a lower cost and in much less time. The process, using used French fry oil, is continuous, with no wastewater, producing a cleaner, higher grade of both biodiesel and glycerine. The much higher quality glycerine produced by the new process is valuable -- close to US$10 per gallon. The researchers say sales of the glycerine could pay for the entire process, making the price of biodiesel around the same as regular petrodiesel in the US. http://ens.lycos.com/ens/mar99/1999L-03-11-02.html The researchers' names are Bob Fox and Dan Ginosar. The story was posted nearly three years ago. It's been discussed here several times (see archives). When last heard about they were still negotiating for commercial funding, one can't help wondering why it's taking so long if it's such a promising process. Maybe somebody nearby would like to check with them? They've been friendly and approachable in the past, just won't tell you the secret. __ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
