Re: [biofuels-biz] DOE Grant
Todd wrote: David, I'm trying to get a handle on what yesterday's technology is relative to biodiesel manufacture. Esterification and transesterification technologies aren't going to be changing much more in the future than they have in the recent past. And even if a few improvements in CP or catalysts occur, the wheel is still going to be round, invaluable and profitable. Todd Swearingen I have agreed with most of what you said to Tom. The new technologies include biological (enzymes) and phyical (UV, u'sonic) methods, algae feedstock and such like. This is distinct from fine-tuning our present processes with heat exchangers, vacuum distillation etc. The batch/continuous question is irrelevant, although it would be interesting to hear how Simon Wells' miniature continuous processor is coming along. David T. Biofuels at Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel at WebConX http://www.webconx.com/2000/biofuel/biofuel.htm List messages are archived at the Info-Archive at NNYTech: http://archive.nnytech.net/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Equipment Information
Did you think of a manual ram press? Carl Bielenberg in Vermont developed one (see address below). They are easy to build. And very cheap. Look into: http://www.jatropha.org/rampresses/biel-ram.htm Reinhard Henning Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: Reinhard writes: You are right. But laboratory size expellers (Komet) are also very expensive, especially the repair parts. I'd prefer to think of the press I want as kitchen scale. There's no engineering reason I can see for a small oil press to cost any more than, say, an electric breadmaker, or the espresso machine on my counter. Clearly, it's a matter of supply and demand, but I bet the demand is higher than it was a few years ago. If I ran the zoo, I'd market it to health-food fans in the US and Europe, and I'd emphasize the nut butter aspect, while also providing accessories (or just a different setting) for seeds. I can imagine someone like Braun taking it on. In the meanwhile, I guess I have to build my own :-) Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Help! Any parts worth scavenging?
I'm about to junk [* see note at bottom] a 1989 Nissan van (gasoline engine) with 43,000 miles on it, and in its place I'll be getting a 1989 Nissan van (DIESEL engine) with 27,000 miles on it. Both are automatic transmission vehicles; the former is 4WD and the latter 2WD. I would like to try running the diesel vehicle on carefully filtered waste vegetable oil and biodiesel, in a two-tank arrangement with either manual or temperature-controlled switching between the fuel systems. HERE IS MY QUESTION: Are there any parts worth scavenging from the outgoing gasoline vehicle, that will be useful in building the dual tank SVO system for the diesel vehicle? Thanks! Christopher Witmer Tokyo [* In Japan a car like this one -- more than ten years old -- has zero market value, despite its low mileage. I will have to pay money to junk it. Unlike the USA, there are few junkyards where people go to get parts, and there is not much of a used parts market. This car will probably be crushed into a metal, glass and rubber brick and stacked somewhere with a bunch of similar cars. The upside of this is that people like me who don't mind old cars can get them for free or for a pittance.] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Equipment Information
Are there plan sets available for these presses? I can't find anything on the website other than the small drawing. On Sun, Jun 09, 2002 at 11:21:00AM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Did you think of a manual ram press? Carl Bielenberg in Vermont developed one (see address below). They are easy to build. And very cheap. Look into: http://www.jatropha.org/rampresses/biel-ram.htm Reinhard Henning -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Equipment Information
Great idea! Kim Harmon Seaver wrote: Anyway, what I was last thinking was building a combo log splitter/pellet press. Engine driven, of course, not just a handpump jack. I need the log splitter anyway, so maybe just build it so you put different ends on the ram, etc. One of those could be for oilseed. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Help! Any parts worth scavenging?
From a consignment store perspective, this looks like a great new money making venture... importing Japan's used cars! Hmm how much to ship one or those things? Also seriously though, what about other parts that may need to be replaced- doors, glass, tires etc. Here of course we use used parts for almost everything. Caroline [* In Japan a car like this one -- more than ten years old -- has zero market value, despite its low mileage. I will have to pay money to junk it. Unlike the USA, there are few junkyards where people go to get parts, and there is not much of a used parts market. This car will probably be crushed into a metal, glass and rubber brick and stacked somewhere with a bunch of similar cars. The upside of this is that people like me who don't mind old cars can get them for free or for a pittance.] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlhttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/http://archive.nnytech.net/ P [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Help! Any parts worth scavenging?
Dear Christopher, You can get into contact with some of the many diesel engine adapters to SVO-use in Europe. I put some of the contact linkt into the Jatropha oil website http://jatropha.org/p-o-engines/conversion-cars.htm There is even a meeting of SVO-users in Germany, the beginning of July see: http://www.bv-pflanzenoele.de/body_index.html Best regards Reinhard Henning Christopher Witmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb: I'm about to junk [* see note at bottom] a 1989 Nissan van (gasoline engine) with 43,000 miles on it, and in its place I'll be getting a 1989 Nissan van (DIESEL engine) with 27,000 miles on it. Both are automatic transmission vehicles; the former is 4WD and the latter 2WD. I would like to try running the diesel vehicle on carefully filtered waste vegetable oil and biodiesel, in a two-tank arrangement with either manual or temperature-controlled switching between the fuel systems. HERE IS MY QUESTION: Are there any parts worth scavenging from the outgoing gasoline vehicle, that will be useful in building the dual tank SVO system for the diesel vehicle? Thanks! Christopher Witmer Tokyo [* In Japan a car like this one -- more than ten years old -- has zero market value, despite its low mileage. I will have to pay money to junk it. Unlike the USA, there are few junkyards where people go to get parts, and there is not much of a used parts market. This car will probably be crushed into a metal, glass and rubber brick and stacked somewhere with a bunch of similar cars. The upside of this is that people like me who don't mind old cars can get them for free or for a pittance.] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ -- bagani GbR, Reinhard Henning, Rothkreuz 11, D-88138 Weissensberg, Germany Tel: ++49 8389 984129, Fax: 984128, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] internet: www.bagani.de Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Help! Any parts worth scavenging?
Grahams wrote: From a consignment store perspective, this looks like a great new money making venture... importing Japan's used cars! I think a lot of used Japanese cars end up in Australia, where they drive on the same side of the road (left). And a lot of used Japanese cars end up in third world countries. Hmm how much to ship one or those things? Probably not worth it unless you have a person who can select really good vehicles and have them sent over by the (40 foot) container. (You can fit a lot of vehicles into such a container if you stand them at an angle.) Christopher Witmer Tokyo Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Re: EPA Ruling Backfires....
Me too ... I believe in local production / local usage. It gives the local village more self-sufficiency. And more choice. What I mean by choice is that ... when there's self-sufficiency, the stability of the user village is not so dependant on the supplier village's political stability (or instability). Can you imagine (for a minute) if the USA produced oil 100% locally?? We'd look at the Middle East and say gee ... isn't it a good thing their war doesn't directly affect US!! Would we still jump in and get involved?? Maybe. Maybe not. But the point is ... we wouldn't HAVE to. We wouldn't be quote forced to. That's my take on it. Curtis --- motie_d [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which goes right back to my belief that goods should be produced and used locally, instead of being imported from out of state or internationally. My immediate personal focus is on local energy use. In my immediate local area, there is an abundance of wood products being burned or hauled away to rot in a pile, while we import Coal and Natural Gas for heat and electricity, and import foreign oil for transportation fuels. Ethanol and synthetic Diesel Fuel can be produced from this resource, along with electricity from byproduct steam and heat. Politics and Bureaucracy are currently preventing me from doing any of this commercially. = Join the Revolution! http://thincnet.com/revolution9/downline/vdownline.html?9107 __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Help! Any parts worth scavenging?
There are companies now importing used Japanse forklift and small tractors[under 25 hp] to the US . They are cleaned up,repainted and sold. Larry Ruebush west central IL - Original Message - From: Christopher Witmer To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 9:08 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Help! Any parts worth scavenging? Grahams wrote: From a consignment store perspective, this looks like a great new money making venture... importing Japan's used cars! Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Ethanol Diesel Lubricity
Some excerpted highlights follow: Technical Barriers to the Use of Ethanol in Diesel Fuel Robert L. McCormick Center for Transportation Technologies and Systems National Renewable Energy Laboratory Golden, CO 80401-3393 7th Annual National Ethanol Conference February 27-March 1, 2002 San Diego, CA 19 page PDF http://www.ethanolrfa.org/NEC02-McCormick.pdf Overview *Rationale *What is E-Diesel? *Main Technical Barriers *Flashpoint/Flammability Flashpoint defines e-diesel as a Class I liquid (like gasoline) for fire safety purposes Additionally, tank vapor space is flammable under some conditions Bottom Line for E-Diesel: *Other OEM Requirements *Stability and Water Tolerance Some additive suppliers indicate tolerance of up to 3% water. *Lubricity/Pump Wear *Pollutant Emissions *Fleet Demonstration Results *Summary - Blending Ethanol in Diesel - Some Typical Properties - Engine and Fuel Injection Equipment Manufactures Acceptance - Summary of Technical Barriers Performance of e-diesel in 2007 engines (equipped with EGR and exhaust treatment systems) using 15 ppm S diesel fuel will become an issue in the near future. == Background All diesel fuel injection equipment has some reliance on diesel fuel as a lubricant. The lubricating properties of diesel fuel are important, especially for rotary and distributor type fuel injection pumps. In these pumps, moving parts are lubricated by the fuel itself as it moves through the pump-not by the engine oil. Other diesel fuel systems - which include unit injectors, injectors, unit pumps, and in-line pumps are partially fuel lubricated. In these systems the. Low lubricity fuel may cause high wear and scarring and high lubricity fuel may provide reduced wear and longer component life. Lubricity has sometimes been mistakenly compared to the viscosity, or thickness of a fuel. The following statement from Lucas. Recent changes (1993 and beyond) in the composition of diesel fuel, primarily the need to reduce fuel sulfur and aromatic levels, and the common chemical process used to accomplish these changes (called hydro-treating) have inadvertently caused the removal of some of the compounds that provide lubricity to the fuel. According to Mr. Paul Henderson, . Typically, Number 1 diesel fuel (commonly referred to as kerosene), which is used in colder climates, has poorer lubricity than Number 2 diesel fuel. A 1998 review paper on fuel lubricity worldwide2 showed that diesel fuel in the US and Canada is some of the poorest lubricity fuel found in the entire world (see Figure 1 attached). Of the 27 countries surveyed, only Canada, Switzerland, Poland and Taiwan had poorer lubricity fuel than the US. With a mean fuel lubricity of just under the recommended specification of an HFRR wear scar diameter of 460 microns, fully 50% of the US fuel was found to be above that recommended by equipment manufacturers. These US data are with diesel fuel refined to meet the current EPA restriction of 500 ppm maximum sulfur specification. The severe hyrdrotreating required to reduce fuel sulfur to the new EPA 2006 specification of 15 ppm sulfur maximum will cause a further reduction in fuel lubricity compared to today's diesel fuel, and is of concern to engine and fuel injection equipment manufacturers. Lubricity Benefits Provided by Biodiesel For the HFRR, a lower wear scar indicates better lubricity. Biodiesel has been tested, at varying concentrations, with poor lubricity Number 2 and Number 1 diesel fuels representative of that on the market after 1993 (i.e. fuel refined to meet a 500 ppm maximum sulfur content). Lubricity Benefits Percent BiodieselHFRR Scar (mm)* [MH: BD lube effectiveness via percentage %] Number 2 Number 1 0.0 536 -671 - 0.4 481 10% 649 3% 1.0 321 40% 500 25% 2.0 322 40% 355 47% 20.0 314 41% 318 53% 100.0 314 41% 314 53% *Results provided by Stanadyne Automotive Corp. Stanadyne Automotive has stated: we have tested biodiesel at Stanadyne and results indicate that the inclusion of 2% biodiesel into any conventional diesel fuel will be sufficient to address the lubricity concerns that we have with these existing diesel fuels. From our standpoint, inclusion of biodiesel is desirable for two reasons.. The reasoning behind Stanadyne's support of 2% biodiesel makes biodiesel an ideal solution to the existing lubricity problem with diesel fuel-while supporting other environmental, energy security, and economic development initiatives. As EPA forces the further removal of sulfur from diesel fuel in 2006, which will undoubtedly worsen fuel
[biofuel] Canada's Saskatchewan Agrivision
Some excerpts from Saskatchewan Agrivision Corporation Inc. Documents Projects http://www.agrivision.sk.ca/publications.htm . ..We have only scratched the surface of developing farm-based sources of renewable energy ethanol, biodiesel, biomass, wind, methane, hydrogen. .Anything we can produce from a barrel of oil we can also produce on our farms. Senator Tom Harkin, Chair, Senate Agriculture Committee, June 28,2001. If the hundreds of billions of dollars that now flow into a few coffers in a few nations were to flow instead to the millions of people who till the world's fields, most countries would see substantial national security, economic and environmental benefits'. Senator Richard Lugar, Ranking Minority member, Senate Agriculture Committee, and R. James Woolsey, former CIA director, January 1999. ã . . . Plans by the European Commission to introduce compulsory targets for bio-fuels will have wonderfully radical consequences for all European oilseed and cereal grain producers.ä Franz Fischler, EU Farm Commissioner, Financial Times London, November 8, 2001 ã . . . I want to thank the Farm Journal Forum for emphasizing the importance of ethanol and biofuels. These fuels are gentle on the environment. They are fuels that can be renewed year after year, and fuels that expand our farm economy. These fuels are made right here in America, so they canât be threatened by any foreign power.ä President George W. Bush, November 28, 2001 SAC Inc. Task Force on Saskatchewanâs Hibernia (Ethanol) Strategy Preliminary Report January 30, 2002 28 page PDF http://www.agrivision.sk.ca/Presentations/Ethanol-Jan-02/LaBelle_Preliminary_Report.pdf == ADM presentation called: Blending Agriculture into Energy-Economic Opportunity Gerald Downing, Manager of Bio-Fuels, Archer Daniels Midland (ADM) Wednesday, January 30, 2002 Saskatoon Inn, Saskatoon Saskatchewan Agrivision Corporation Inc. 42 page PDF http://www.agrivision.sk.ca/Presentations/Ethanol-Jan-02/Downing.pdf == Some might be interested in the: Canadian Petroleum Industry Perspective http://www.agrivision.sk.ca/publications.htm or read bits and pieces in the Preliminary Report above. ` Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Ethanol Diesel Lubricity dirty fuel
I have some ignorant questions (I had to ask): I'm not sure if I'd deliberately add water to biodiesel since BD and ethanol absorb moisture from the air. Anyone know the saturation point of either biofuels? And wouldn't the filters take care of this? A partnership with Chevron mentioned there additive surrounded the water molecules. Doesn't Biodiesel? As well as ethanol (although it lacks lubricity on its own)? With biodiesel cetane rated in the mid to upper 50 range and looks like todays US petro-diesel in the low 40 range how is it the German auto manufactures can technically engineer higher quality diesel engines then the US since BD is moisture absorbent potentially lowering cetane rating? The reason I asked is the prominent production levels their. What makes US diesel fuel dirtier then the European Union's? Thank you! ` Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Dr_ObB/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Biodiesel Workshop in Iowa
MAHARISHI UNIVERSITY OF MANAGEMENT Office of Public Affairs Fairfield, Iowa 52557 Ph. 641-472-7000 http://www.mum.edu For Immediate Release (Please excuse cross posting.) Contacts: Ken Chawkin, 641-470-1314 or Marielle Savard, [EMAIL PROTECTED] GROUP OF TRAVELING ENVIRONMENTALISTS TO OFFER WORKSHOP A group of 15 young environmentalists traveling the country in a biodiesel-powered bus will stop by the campus of Maharishi University of Management, Saturday, June 15, to offer a workshop on making biodiesel fuel. The group is representing Common Vision, a grass roots nonprofit organization whose mission is to cultivate awareness and respect for the Earth and to generate social and environmental changes toward sustainable lifestyles. The group's outreach tour offers community-training workshops in making biodiesel, permaculture design, and other sustainable skills. Their workshop methods include hands-on demonstration, discussions, games, lectures, and visual aids. They will also be distributing information from their bus. The schedule of events will include a participatory activity on Friday evening at Abundance EcoVillage and a Saturday afternoon workshop on the main campus in which they will make biodiesel fuel from vegetable oil. In addition to offering education, the group is also eager to learn from the communities and organizations they visit. They are seeking the guidance and examples of people and communities who have something to teach about sustainability strategies. While in Fairfield they will be staying at Abundance EcoVillage. The group includes a camera crew who are working on a documentary that will include the various workshops and examples of responsible ecological and social practices. One of the members of Common Vision, Michael Flynn, is available for interviews and can be reached on his cellular phone at 831-588- 9914. For more information about Common Vision, check out their website at http://www.commonvision.org/. All activities are free except the biodiesel workshop, which costs $10 per person. However, the biodiesel workshop is also free for all Maharishi School of the Age of Enlightenment and Maharishi University of Management students, staff, and faculty, and to all students from any other schools wishing to participate. In addition to the biodiesel workshop, there will also be two days of tree planting according to permaculture principles at Abundance EcoVillage on Thursday and Friday, June 13-14, from 9:45 am to 4:30 pm. For more info, please contact Lorena at 472-0664, 472-4778 or [EMAIL PROTECTED] ## Craig S. Shaw Director of Libraries Maharishi University of Management Library Fairfield, IA 52557 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Phone (641) 472-1148 Fax (641) 472-1173 http://www.mum.edu/library/home.html http://www.mum.edu College of Maharishi Vedic Medicine http://www.mum.edu/CMVM Center for Natural Medicine and Prevention http://www.mum.edu/CNMP Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Dr_ObB/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Foolproof method
Hey yall- I am Bill Clark and new to the group as well as biodiesel. I am currently developing a Southeastern Center for Sustainable Communities for Audubon International. I am located in S.E. Alabama, U.S.A. I have many questions so I will pose them 1 at a time. When settling out water from the WVO, one method suggests heating to 60 deg C for 15 minutes. Is this temperature a minimum, same for time? My reason for asking is that we have much sunshine here. We could easily heat to that temp or more using just solar. The tanks I intend to use are HDPE 1000L tanks recycled from a latex plant here in town. They are opaque and have an aluminum pallet and frame already attached. Will sunlight have any negative effects on the oil? I have been watching the messages for a couple of days and it seems a lively group. Have much enjoyed it. Bill C. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Dr_ObB/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Foolproof method
Bill - sunlight will degrade vegoils. Best to store in dark and use as soon as possible. Edward Beggs, BES, MSc http://www.biofuels.ca on 6/10/02 2:22 PM, William Clark at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey yall- I am Bill Clark and new to the group as well as biodiesel. I am currently developing a Southeastern Center for Sustainable Communities for Audubon International. I am located in S.E. Alabama, U.S.A. I have many questions so I will pose them 1 at a time. When settling out water from the WVO, one method suggests heating to 60 deg C for 15 minutes. Is this temperature a minimum, same for time? My reason for asking is that we have much sunshine here. We could easily heat to that temp or more using just solar. The tanks I intend to use are HDPE 1000L tanks recycled from a latex plant here in town. They are opaque and have an aluminum pallet and frame already attached. Will sunlight have any negative effects on the oil? I have been watching the messages for a couple of days and it seems a lively group. Have much enjoyed it. Bill C. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Dr_ObB/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Foolproof method
Edward- Thanks for your reply. Still wondering about time a temp. It would still be possible for me to heat with solar without exposing oil to sunlight. For now, WVO will be used as collected. Bill C. - Original Message - From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel-JTF biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 4:28 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Foolproof method Bill - sunlight will degrade vegoils. Best to store in dark and use as soon as possible. Edward Beggs, BES, MSc http://www.biofuels.ca on 6/10/02 2:22 PM, William Clark at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey yall- I am Bill Clark and new to the group as well as biodiesel. I am currently developing a Southeastern Center for Sustainable Communities for Audubon International. I am located in S.E. Alabama, U.S.A. I have many questions so I will pose them 1 at a time. When settling out water from the WVO, one method suggests heating to 60 deg C for 15 minutes. Is this temperature a minimum, same for time? My reason for asking is that we have much sunshine here. We could easily heat to that temp or more using just solar. The tanks I intend to use are HDPE 1000L tanks recycled from a latex plant here in town. They are opaque and have an aluminum pallet and frame already attached. Will sunlight have any negative effects on the oil? I have been watching the messages for a couple of days and it seems a lively group. Have much enjoyed it. Bill C. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Dr_ObB/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] First stage foolproof method
Next question. What problems might I encounter using anhydrous ethanol as opposed to methanol as a reactant in this process? Bill C. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Dr_ObB/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Foolproof method
- Original Message - From: William Clark Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 15:22 Subject: [biofuel] Foolproof method When settling out water from the WVO, one method suggests heating to 60 deg C for 15 minutes. Is this temperature a minimum, same for time? My reason for asking is that we have much sunshine here. We could easily heat to that temp or more using just solar. The tanks I intend to use are HDPE 1000L tanks recycled from a latex plant here in town. They are opaque and have an aluminum pallet and frame already attached. Will sunlight have any negative effects on the oil? Sunlight can affect veg oil, and HDPE if the HDPE is not made for being out in the sunlight ( the UV can degrade both the plastic and the oil ). Greg H. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Dr_ObB/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Foolproof method
All this is based on my reading rather than actual experience, but as long as the solar radiation is only being applied to the biodiesel as heat, the controlled use of that heat to rid WVO of water should present no problem. (Are you sure the time and temp you gave is correct? It sounds more like a method for pasteurization.) Edward Beggs is correct that exposure to factors such as light and heat (and air) are not good for diesel-type fuels. If you are consuming as you produce, without prolonged storage, then you probably don't have much to worry about. Given your ambient temperatures and humidity, your biggest problem (if you encounter any) might be microbial activity, but if you use what you make reasonably quickly and have a good fuel filtration system, that shouldn't be reason to worry. William Clark wrote: When settling out water from the WVO, one method suggests heating to 60 deg C for 15 minutes. Is this temperature a minimum, same for time? My reason for asking is that we have much sunshine here. We could easily heat to that temp or more using just slar. The tanks I intend to use are HDPE 1000L tanks recycled from a latex plant here in town. They are opaque and have an aluminum pallet and frame already attached. Will sunlight have any negative effects on the oil? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Dr_ObB/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Foolproof method
Christopher- Still curious. Apart from UV degradation of plastic and oil, would there be any problems associated with exceeding time and temp I mentioned. I got these from Journey To Forever website under Foolproof Method. Bill C. - Original Message - From: Christopher Witmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 5:55 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Foolproof method All this is based on my reading rather than actual experience, but as long as the solar radiation is only being applied to the biodiesel as heat, the controlled use of that heat to rid WVO of water should present no problem. (Are you sure the time and temp you gave is correct? It sounds more like a method for pasteurization.) Edward Beggs is correct that exposure to factors such as light and heat (and air) are not good for diesel-type fuels. If you are consuming as you produce, without prolonged storage, then you probably don't have much to worry about. Given your ambient temperatures and humidity, your biggest problem (if you encounter any) might be microbial activity, but if you use what you make reasonably quickly and have a good fuel filtration system, that shouldn't be reason to worry. William Clark wrote: When settling out water from the WVO, one method suggests heating to 60 deg C for 15 minutes. Is this temperature a minimum, same for time? My reason for asking is that we have much sunshine here. We could easily heat to that temp or more using just solar. The tanks I intend to use are HDPE 1000L tanks recycled from a latex plant here in town. They are opaque and have an aluminum pallet and frame already attached. Will sunlight have any negative effects on the oil? Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Dr_ObB/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Foolproof method
You can use the sun to heat it for filtering, etc., but it is best to store, before and after, in the dark and not store any longer than you need to - unless it's frozen under a snowdrift, that is. Edward Beggs, BES, MSc http://www.biofuels.ca on 6/10/02 3:16 PM, William Clark at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Edward- Thanks for your reply. Still wondering about time a temp. It would still be possible for me to heat with solar without exposing oil to sunlight. For now, WVO will be used as collected. Bill C. - Original Message - From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel-JTF biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 4:28 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Foolproof method Bill - sunlight will degrade vegoils. Best to store in dark and use as soon as possible. Edward Beggs, BES, MSc http://www.biofuels.ca on 6/10/02 2:22 PM, William Clark at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey yall- I am Bill Clark and new to the group as well as biodiesel. I am currently developing a Southeastern Center for Sustainable Communities for Audubon International. I am located in S.E. Alabama, U.S.A. I have many questions so I will pose them 1 at a time. When settling out water from the WVO, one method suggests heating to 60 deg C for 15 minutes. Is this temperature a minimum, same for time? My reason for asking is that we have much sunshine here. We could easily heat to that temp or more using just solar. The tanks I intend to use are HDPE 1000L tanks recycled from a latex plant here in town. They are opaque and have an aluminum pallet and frame already attached. Will sunlight have any negative effects on the oil? I have been watching the messages for a couple of days and it seems a lively group. Have much enjoyed it. Bill C. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Dr_ObB/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE : Re: [biofuel] oil crisis data
Sorry. Here it is... http://www.hubbertpeak.com/politics/ __ramjee. At Fri, 07 Jun 2002 17:52:04 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you happen to know precisely where you found this? You didn't give the exact link. TIA. MM Another interesting snippet from the same site: George W. Bush on Next Four Years: Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Foolproof method
Well, on paper at least you want to minimize exposure to heat prior to use. But I assume you are not planning to store the stuff for weeks or months in constant exposure to direct sun, and if the duration is short (say, a day or two) your vehicle may not notice any practical difference, even if a difference could be clearly detected analytically. You might try experimenting with small quantities, no more than a few gallons at a time, to see how time and temp affect your particular brew. William Clark wrote: Christopher- Still curious. Apart from UV degradation of plastic and oil, would there be any problems associated with exceeding time and temp I mentioned. I got these from Journey To Forever website under Foolproof Method. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Dr_ObB/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Ethanol Diesel Lubricity dirty fuel
On Mon, Jun 10, 2002 at 02:32:04PM -0500, MH wrote: I have some ignorant questions (I had to ask): I'm not sure if I'd deliberately add water to biodiesel since BD and ethanol absorb moisture from the air. Anyone know the saturation point of either biofuels? And wouldn't the filters take care of this? A partnership with Chevron mentioned there additive surrounded the water molecules. Doesn't Biodiesel? As well as ethanol (although it lacks lubricity on its own)? With biodiesel cetane rated in the mid to upper 50 range and looks like todays US petro-diesel in the low 40 range how is it the German auto manufactures can technically engineer higher quality diesel engines then the US since BD is moisture absorbent potentially lowering cetane rating? The reason I asked is the prominent production levels their. What makes US diesel fuel dirtier then the European Union's? Sulfur -- Harmon Seaver CyberShamanix http://www.cybershamanix.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Dr_ObB/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method
Next question. What problems might I encounter using anhydrous ethanol as opposed to methanol as a reactant in this process? I believe the first step involves mostly esterification but also some transesterification. I don't know how much you're relying on the glycerine to fall out of the reaction, but it won't leave the solution as readily or as completely when ethanol is used. Also, you have to use more ethanol, of course, since the molecular weight is greater than for methanol (ratio 46 to 32). If you want to continue with ethanol in the 2nd step, which is PURELY transesterification, the problem with the glycerine failing to separate from the biodiesel can become quite bothersome, particularly with any water in there, or free fatty acids above 1%. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Dr_ObB/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Foolproof method
Gentlemen, When you say use as soon as possible, are you referring to the WVO or the biodiesel? I was under the impression that biodiesel will store for about a year if kept in a cool, dark place. Ed -Original Message- From: William Clark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 11:16 PM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Foolproof method Edward- Thanks for your reply. Still wondering about time a temp. It would still be possible for me to heat with solar without exposing oil to sunlight. For now, WVO will be used as collected. Bill C. - Original Message - From: Neoteric Biofuels Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel-JTF biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 4:28 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Foolproof method Bill - sunlight will degrade vegoils. Best to store in dark and use as soon as possible. Edward Beggs, BES, MSc http://www.biofuels.ca on 6/10/02 2:22 PM, William Clark at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey yall- I am Bill Clark and new to the group as well as biodiesel. I am currently developing a Southeastern Center for Sustainable Communities for Audubon International. I am located in S.E. Alabama, U.S.A. I have many questions so I will pose them 1 at a time. When settling out water from the WVO, one method suggests heating to 60 deg C for 15 minutes. Is this temperature a minimum, same for time? My reason for asking is that we have much sunshine here. We could easily heat to that temp or more using just solar. The tanks I intend to use are HDPE 1000L tanks recycled from a latex plant here in town. They are opaque and have an aluminum pallet and frame already attached. Will sunlight have any negative effects on the oil? I have been watching the messages for a couple of days and it seems a lively group. Have much enjoyed it. Bill C. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Dr_ObB/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: ASTM Flash point was Re: [biofuel] water (Keith)
Do you know the year in which ASTM D5761 was issued? Thx Chistian - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 1:54 PM Subject: ASTM Flash point was Re: [biofuel] water (Keith) Flash Point: Above 118¼C (ASTM PS121 specifies higher than 100¼C, so I didn«t go much further) The new ASTM D-6751 standard specifies 130 deg C, I don't know why. Germany and Czech specify 110, all others 100. Maybe it's all just politics, the rapeseed vs soy game. Christian and Keith, As per ASTM D-6751, paragraph X1.21: The flash point for biodiesel is used as the mechanism to limit the level of unreacted alcohol remaining in the finished fuel. As per ASTM D-6751, paragraph X1.22: The flash point specification for biodiesel is also of importance in connection with legal requirements and safety precautions involved in fuel handling and storage, and is normally specified to meet insurance and fire regulations. Paragraph X1.23 discusses wide variability with the accepted test method. This resulted in 130*C being chosen to insure that a low end flash point of 100*C is never compromised. Improvements to testing are being evaluated, which could result in a revised standard at some point in the future. Todd Swearingen Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ __ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Dr_ObB/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: ASTM Flash point was Re: [biofuel] water (Keith)
D-6751 was published in April, 2002. - Original Message - From: Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 8:46 PM Subject: Re: ASTM Flash point was Re: [biofuel] water (Keith) Do you know the year in which ASTM D5761 was issued? Thx Chistian - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, June 09, 2002 1:54 PM Subject: ASTM Flash point was Re: [biofuel] water (Keith) Flash Point: Above 118¼C (ASTM PS121 specifies higher than 100¼C, so I didn«t go much further) The new ASTM D-6751 standard specifies 130 deg C, I don't know why. Germany and Czech specify 110, all others 100. Maybe it's all just politics, the rapeseed vs soy game. Christian and Keith, As per ASTM D-6751, paragraph X1.21: The flash point for biodiesel is used as the mechanism to limit the level of unreacted alcohol remaining in the finished fuel. As per ASTM D-6751, paragraph X1.22: The flash point specification for biodiesel is also of importance in connection with legal requirements and safety precautions involved in fuel handling and storage, and is normally specified to meet insurance and fire regulations. Paragraph X1.23 discusses wide variability with the accepted test method. This resulted in 130*C being chosen to insure that a low end flash point of 100*C is never compromised. Improvements to testing are being evaluated, which could result in a revised standard at some point in the future. Todd Swearingen Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ _ _ mensaje enviado desde http://www.iespana.es emails (pop)-paginas web (espacio ilimitado)-agenda-favoritos (bookmarks)-foros -Chat Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Dr_ObB/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method
Ken others- First I would like to thank all of you for your help your prompt replies. I thought it might be useful for me to describe what I have in mind. One of the missions we would like to undertake is to demonstrate the effectiveness of biodiesel as a fuel to the local community and government. The quality of my fuel is important. While energy (electricity) is cheap here, cost is very important, hence my desire to use solar as a heat source when practical. I believe that WVO can be preheated in a pcv pipe grid using the sun. When painted black it is less suseptible to UV. Not along term solution but will do for now. After we are comfortable with our process, we intend to convince the City of Eufaula to have the Recycling Dept. collect all WVO produced locally (not currently doing this) and produce their own clean fuel. I know other cities in USA are producing biodiesel but none as small as us (15,000). Most biodiesel info I have seen is geared either to large capacity production or individual and farm production. Once we have coverted our own city, we will try to convince other small communties in Alabama and eventually the South East to do the same. Somebody recently made referrence to the EPA and their discouragement of small biodiesel prodution in an e-mail on this list. I am unfamiliar with this but don't doubt it. Ron Dodson (neat guy and a very creative thinker) is the head of Audubon International. That is the group we are doing this with. Ron also sits on the National Biodiesel Board. We can probably get some support for this idea through him. Bill C. - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 6:43 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method Next question. What problems might I encounter using anhydrous ethanol as opposed to methanol as a reactant in this process? I believe the first step involves mostly esterification but also some transesterification. I don't know how much you're relying on the glycerine to fall out of the reaction, but it won't leave the solution as readily or as completely when ethanol is used. Also, you have to use more ethanol, of course, since the molecular weight is greater than for methanol (ratio 46 to 32). If you want to continue with ethanol in the 2nd step, which is PURELY transesterification, the problem with the glycerine failing to separate from the biodiesel can become quite bothersome, particularly with any water in there, or free fatty acids above 1%. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-- Will You Find True Love? Will You Meet the One? Free Love Reading by phone! http://us.click.yahoo.com/Dr_ObB/zDLEAA/Ey.GAA/FGYolB/TM -~- Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method
We just heat it in the translucent polyjugs that the cooking oil is supplied to the restaurants in. A few hours in the sun on a hot day, and it is hot enough to filter. They're like little greenhouses. ;-) Good luck, keep us posted, we have been promoting the same idea around here to the recycling councils, etc. Regards, Edward Beggs, BES, MSc http://www.biofuels.ca on 6/10/02 6:09 PM, William Clark at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ken others- First I would like to thank all of you for your help your prompt replies. I thought it might be useful for me to describe what I have in mind. One of the missions we would like to undertake is to demonstrate the effectiveness of biodiesel as a fuel to the local community and government. The quality of my fuel is important. While energy (electricity) is cheap here, cost is very important, hence my desire to use solar as a heat source when practical. I believe that WVO can be preheated in a pcv pipe grid using the sun. When painted black it is less suseptible to UV. Not along term solution but will do for now. After we are comfortable with our process, we intend to convince the City of Eufaula to have the Recycling Dept. collect all WVO produced locally (not currently doing this) and produce their own clean fuel. I know other cities in USA are producing biodiesel but none as small as us (15,000). Most biodiesel info I have seen is geared either to large capacity production or individual and farm production. Once we have coverted our own city, we will try to convince other small communties in Alabama and eventually the South East to do the same. Somebody recently made referrence to the EPA and their discouragement of small biodiesel prodution in an e-mail on this list. I am unfamiliar with this but don't doubt it. Ron Dodson (neat guy and a very creative thinker) is the head of Audubon International. That is the group we are doing this with. Ron also sits on the National Biodiesel Board. We can probably get some support for this idea through him. Bill C. - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 6:43 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method Next question. What problems might I encounter using anhydrous ethanol as opposed to methanol as a reactant in this process? I believe the first step involves mostly esterification but also some transesterification. I don't know how much you're relying on the glycerine to fall out of the reaction, but it won't leave the solution as readily or as completely when ethanol is used. Also, you have to use more ethanol, of course, since the molecular weight is greater than for methanol (ratio 46 to 32). If you want to continue with ethanol in the 2nd step, which is PURELY transesterification, the problem with the glycerine failing to separate from the biodiesel can become quite bothersome, particularly with any water in there, or free fatty acids above 1%. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method
That's rather a hopeful thought...that an Audobon/NBB board member could persuade the EPA and the soybean councils to make a loophole in the matrimonial papers they formulated in order to accomodate micro-regional manufacture. Don't get me wrong. It would be wonderful if they would. But that certainly hasn't been the stance of either up to this point. And it's rather difficult to imagine that they could even if they wanted to, as the general rule in this country is equal protection under the law. Which also means equal enforcement, prosecution and persecution meaning that the rules are to be applied equally to everyone and that exceptions are perceived as the proverbial pox - no matter how beneficial they prove. One can always hope. But if I were you, I would be formulating a backup plan well before I put all my eggs in that basket. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: William Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 9:09 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method Ken others- First I would like to thank all of you for your help your prompt replies. I thought it might be useful for me to describe what I have in mind. One of the missions we would like to undertake is to demonstrate the effectiveness of biodiesel as a fuel to the local community and government. The quality of my fuel is important. While energy (electricity) is cheap here, cost is very important, hence my desire to use solar as a heat source when practical. I believe that WVO can be preheated in a pcv pipe grid using the sun. When painted black it is less suseptible to UV. Not along term solution but will do for now. After we are comfortable with our process, we intend to convince the City of Eufaula to have the Recycling Dept. collect all WVO produced locally (not currently doing this) and produce their own clean fuel. I know other cities in USA are producing biodiesel but none as small as us (15,000). Most biodiesel info I have seen is geared either to large capacity production or individual and farm production. Once we have coverted our own city, we will try to convince other small communties in Alabama and eventually the South East to do the same. Somebody recently made referrence to the EPA and their discouragement of small biodiesel prodution in an e-mail on this list. I am unfamiliar with this but don't doubt it. Ron Dodson (neat guy and a very creative thinker) is the head of Audubon International. That is the group we are doing this with. Ron also sits on the National Biodiesel Board. We can probably get some support for this idea through him. Bill C. - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 6:43 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method Next question. What problems might I encounter using anhydrous ethanol as opposed to methanol as a reactant in this process? I believe the first step involves mostly esterification but also some transesterification. I don't know how much you're relying on the glycerine to fall out of the reaction, but it won't leave the solution as readily or as completely when ethanol is used. Also, you have to use more ethanol, of course, since the molecular weight is greater than for methanol (ratio 46 to 32). If you want to continue with ethanol in the 2nd step, which is PURELY transesterification, the problem with the glycerine failing to separate from the biodiesel can become quite bothersome, particularly with any water in there, or free fatty acids above 1%. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method
Todd- I don't know exactly what EPA and soybean councils have put on paper. I would be interested in seeing what legislation or rules apply. Would appreciate directions to access that info (if available). One loophole I hope to exploit may be that I am proposing that entities refine their own fuel, not produce commercially. Bill C. .- Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 9:24 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method That's rather a hopeful thought...that an Audobon/NBB board member could persuade the EPA and the soybean councils to make a loophole in the matrimonial papers they formulated in order to accomodate micro-regional manufacture. Don't get me wrong. It would be wonderful if they would. But that certainly hasn't been the stance of either up to this point. And it's rather difficult to imagine that they could even if they wanted to, as the general rule in this country is equal protection under the law. Which also means equal enforcement, prosecution and persecution meaning that the rules are to be applied equally to everyone and that exceptions are perceived as the proverbial pox - no matter how beneficial they prove. One can always hope. But if I were you, I would be formulating a backup plan well before I put all my eggs in that basket. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: William Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 9:09 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method Ken others- First I would like to thank all of you for your help your prompt replies. I thought it might be useful for me to describe what I have in mind. One of the missions we would like to undertake is to demonstrate the effectiveness of biodiesel as a fuel to the local community and government. The quality of my fuel is important. While energy (electricity) is cheap here, cost is very important, hence my desire to use solar as a heat source when practical. I believe that WVO can be preheated in a pcv pipe grid using the sun. When painted black it is less suseptible to UV. Not along term solution but will do for now. After we are comfortable with our process, we intend to convince the City of Eufaula to have the Recycling Dept. collect all WVO produced locally (not currently doing this) and produce their own clean fuel. I know other cities in USA are producing biodiesel but none as small as us (15,000). Most biodiesel info I have seen is geared either to large capacity production or individual and farm production. Once we have coverted our own city, we will try to convince other small communties in Alabama and eventually the South East to do the same. Somebody recently made referrence to the EPA and their discouragement of small biodiesel prodution in an e-mail on this list. I am unfamiliar with this but don't doubt it. Ron Dodson (neat guy and a very creative thinker) is the head of Audubon International. That is the group we are doing this with. Ron also sits on the National Biodiesel Board. We can probably get some support for this idea through him. Bill C. - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 6:43 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method Next question. What problems might I encounter using anhydrous ethanol as opposed to methanol as a reactant in this process? I believe the first step involves mostly esterification but also some transesterification. I don't know how much you're relying on the glycerine to fall out of the reaction, but it won't leave the solution as readily or as completely when ethanol is used. Also, you have to use more ethanol, of course, since the molecular weight is greater than for methanol (ratio 46 to 32). If you want to continue with ethanol in the 2nd step, which is PURELY transesterification, the problem with the glycerine failing to separate from the biodiesel can become quite bothersome, particularly with any water in there, or free fatty acids above 1%. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method
Bill, There is nothing to stop anyone from producing their own fuel for their own off-road use, save for local ordinances that may apply. And there may not be anything stopping anyone from producing their own fuel for their own personal on road use, save for the IRS and state taxation departments relative to collection of road taxes and the EPA relative to registration of the fuel - presuming they made the effort to be intentional pains in the arse on the matter. But the moment a commercial manufacturer produces the first drop for use in commerce (road legal fuel), they have to buy access to Health Affects data, either by paying NBB fees, conducting their own studies or partnering with an entity that already has legal access to the data. That's pretty much the end of the story at the moment. And pretty much what scotches it for many people who would ordinarily move into higher volumes of manufacture within their own communities. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: William Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 10:50 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method Todd- I don't know exactly what EPA and soybean councils have put on paper. I would be interested in seeing what legislation or rules apply. Would appreciate directions to access that info (if available). One loophole I hope to exploit may be that I am proposing that entities refine their own fuel, not produce commercially. Bill C. .- Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 9:24 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method That's rather a hopeful thought...that an Audobon/NBB board member could persuade the EPA and the soybean councils to make a loophole in the matrimonial papers they formulated in order to accomodate micro-regional manufacture. Don't get me wrong. It would be wonderful if they would. But that certainly hasn't been the stance of either up to this point. And it's rather difficult to imagine that they could even if they wanted to, as the general rule in this country is equal protection under the law. Which also means equal enforcement, prosecution and persecution meaning that the rules are to be applied equally to everyone and that exceptions are perceived as the proverbial pox - no matter how beneficial they prove. One can always hope. But if I were you, I would be formulating a backup plan well before I put all my eggs in that basket. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: William Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 9:09 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method Ken others- First I would like to thank all of you for your help your prompt replies. I thought it might be useful for me to describe what I have in mind. One of the missions we would like to undertake is to demonstrate the effectiveness of biodiesel as a fuel to the local community and government. The quality of my fuel is important. While energy (electricity) is cheap here, cost is very important, hence my desire to use solar as a heat source when practical. I believe that WVO can be preheated in a pcv pipe grid using the sun. When painted black it is less suseptible to UV. Not along term solution but will do for now. After we are comfortable with our process, we intend to convince the City of Eufaula to have the Recycling Dept. collect all WVO produced locally (not currently doing this) and produce their own clean fuel. I know other cities in USA are producing biodiesel but none as small as us (15,000). Most biodiesel info I have seen is geared either to large capacity production or individual and farm production. Once we have coverted our own city, we will try to convince other small communties in Alabama and eventually the South East to do the same. Somebody recently made referrence to the EPA and their discouragement of small biodiesel prodution in an e-mail on this list. I am unfamiliar with this but don't doubt it. Ron Dodson (neat guy and a very creative thinker) is the head of Audubon International. That is the group we are doing this with. Ron also sits on the National Biodiesel Board. We can probably get some support for this idea through him. Bill C. - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 6:43 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method Next question. What problems might I encounter using anhydrous ethanol as opposed to methanol as a reactant in this process? I believe the first step involves mostly esterification but also some transesterification. I don't know how much you're relying on
Re: RE : Re: [biofuel] oil crisis data
On Tue, Jun 11, 2002 at 08:30:02 IST (GMT+0530), you wrote: Here it is... http://www.hubbertpeak.com/politics/ Thanks, I appreciate it. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send quot;unsubscribequot; messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method
Todd- Early on in my ivestigation of biodiesel (relative to the total time I have spent) I checked with the municipality here and found that they are exempt from state and federal fuel taxes. Same for schools. My question here is if a municipality would be required to register thier fuel if they produce it themselves and use it to operate their own equipment? I make the assumption that apart from the chemical inputs, there will be no hazardous by-products. If chemicals which may be obtained on the open market are properly handled, what other concern does the EPA have in this matter? Bill C. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 10:04 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method Bill, There is nothing to stop anyone from producing their own fuel for their own off-road use, save for local ordinances that may apply. And there may not be anything stopping anyone from producing their own fuel for their own personal on road use, save for the IRS and state taxation departments relative to collection of road taxes and the EPA relative to registration of the fuel - presuming they made the effort to be intentional pains in the arse on the matter. But the moment a commercial manufacturer produces the first drop for use in commerce (road legal fuel), they have to buy access to Health Affects data, either by paying NBB fees, conducting their own studies or partnering with an entity that already has legal access to the data. That's pretty much the end of the story at the moment. And pretty much what scotches it for many people who would ordinarily move into higher volumes of manufacture within their own communities. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: William Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 10:50 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method Todd- I don't know exactly what EPA and soybean councils have put on paper. I would be interested in seeing what legislation or rules apply. Would appreciate directions to access that info (if available). One loophole I hope to exploit may be that I am proposing that entities refine their own fuel, not produce commercially. Bill C. .- Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 9:24 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method That's rather a hopeful thought...that an Audobon/NBB board member could persuade the EPA and the soybean councils to make a loophole in the matrimonial papers they formulated in order to accomodate micro-regional manufacture. Don't get me wrong. It would be wonderful if they would. But that certainly hasn't been the stance of either up to this point. And it's rather difficult to imagine that they could even if they wanted to, as the general rule in this country is equal protection under the law. Which also means equal enforcement, prosecution and persecution meaning that the rules are to be applied equally to everyone and that exceptions are perceived as the proverbial pox - no matter how beneficial they prove. One can always hope. But if I were you, I would be formulating a backup plan well before I put all my eggs in that basket. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: William Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 9:09 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method Ken others- First I would like to thank all of you for your help your prompt replies. I thought it might be useful for me to describe what I have in mind. One of the missions we would like to undertake is to demonstrate the effectiveness of biodiesel as a fuel to the local community and government. The quality of my fuel is important. While energy (electricity) is cheap here, cost is very important, hence my desire to use solar as a heat source when practical. I believe that WVO can be preheated in a pcv pipe grid using the sun. When painted black it is less suseptible to UV. Not along term solution but will do for now. After we are comfortable with our process, we intend to convince the City of Eufaula to have the Recycling Dept. collect all WVO produced locally (not currently doing this) and produce their own clean fuel. I know other cities in USA are producing biodiesel but none as small as us (15,000). Most biodiesel info I have seen is geared either to large capacity production or individual and farm production. Once we have coverted our own city, we will try to convince other small communties in Alabama and eventually the South East to do the same. Somebody recently made
Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method
Bill, While you have hit upon what might appear to be a reasonable loophole in the matter, there remain several points of contention. For a moment consider that I might be a very bitter commercial biodiesel manufacturer, extremely angry at the manner in which the NBB/soy councils are attempting to get their checkoff dollars back after they've already spent them once. Surely you don't believe that someone such as this would let a manufacturing scenario such as you present go unchallenged, simply because the state or municipality is road tax exempt? Consider the EPA's definition of in commerce as being on-road use. Not brief use of agriculturally exempt dyed fuel, such as hauling a tractor to a harvest site, but non-dyed commercial grade fuel. It's the exact same fuel whether it's taxed or not and whether it's in a state DOT truck, a privately owned tractor trailer or a Volkswagen Golf. Also consider for a moment from where these tax exempt entities have been previously accessing their fuel - outside vendors. There are arenas full of ordinances and statutes governing the acquisition of supplies and competing with commercial interests. Now try and explain to the miffed commercial biodiesel producer why the state or municipality should be exempt from the same Health Affects data requirements that he or she must adhere toSame roads. Same air. Same quality of emissions. Which brings a soul directly to the off-road exemption, which will at some point cease to exist due to the very same arguement. Too many lawyers, too many bureaucrats and too many people serving self-interests inevitably screw up anything worthwhile. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: William Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 11:45 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method Todd- Early on in my ivestigation of biodiesel (relative to the total time I have spent) I checked with the municipality here and found that they are exempt from state and federal fuel taxes. Same for schools. My question here is if a municipality would be required to register thier fuel if they produce it themselves and use it to operate their own equipment? I make the assumption that apart from the chemical inputs, there will be no hazardous by-products. If chemicals which may be obtained on the open market are properly handled, what other concern does the EPA have in this matter? Bill C. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 10:04 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method Bill, There is nothing to stop anyone from producing their own fuel for their own off-road use, save for local ordinances that may apply. And there may not be anything stopping anyone from producing their own fuel for their own personal on road use, save for the IRS and state taxation departments relative to collection of road taxes and the EPA relative to registration of the fuel - presuming they made the effort to be intentional pains in the arse on the matter. But the moment a commercial manufacturer produces the first drop for use in commerce (road legal fuel), they have to buy access to Health Affects data, either by paying NBB fees, conducting their own studies or partnering with an entity that already has legal access to the data. That's pretty much the end of the story at the moment. And pretty much what scotches it for many people who would ordinarily move into higher volumes of manufacture within their own communities. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: William Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 10:50 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method Todd- I don't know exactly what EPA and soybean councils have put on paper. I would be interested in seeing what legislation or rules apply. Would appreciate directions to access that info (if available). One loophole I hope to exploit may be that I am proposing that entities refine their own fuel, not produce commercially. Bill C. .- Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, June 10, 2002 9:24 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] First stage foolproof method That's rather a hopeful thought...that an Audobon/NBB board member could persuade the EPA and the soybean councils to make a loophole in the matrimonial papers they formulated in order to accomodate micro-regional manufacture. Don't get me wrong. It would be wonderful if they would. But that certainly hasn't been the stance of either up to this point. And it's rather difficult to imagine that they could even if they wanted to, as the general rule in this country is equal protection under the law. Which also means
