On 24 December 2010 02:10, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote:
That service looks very useful if it were ever implemented. I'd note
that it probably needs to know about the date of the imagery too.
Can't say I'm thrilled about the idea of storing the offset data in
the main OSM db
Would application of notions described in
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/True_Offset_Process (i.e. recording of
offsets in a formal manner) be practical and useful here? I have not reviewed
all messages in this thread, so I do not know if this has already been brought
up. --ceyockey
On Fri, Dec 24, 2010 at 1:23 AM, dies38...@mypacks.net wrote:
Would application of notions described in
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/True_Offset_Process (i.e. recording of
offsets in a formal manner) be practical and useful here? I have not
reviewed all messages in this thread, so I
On Tue, 21 Dec 2010 20:27:08 +0100
M∡rtin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote:
A very good map
can't be done just from orthophotos.
it is quite a legitimate way of producing maps for remote areas, and a
quick web search for orthocadastral map will lead you to scholarly
articles on the
On 22/12/2010 09:02, Elizabeth Dodd wrote:
I would also point out that in the time of the Cold War the USSR
completely mapped the UK from orthophotos, with a little ground work by
the spy network.
On Wed, 22 Dec 2010 15:46:36 +
Craig Wallace craig...@fastmail.fm wrote:
On 22/12/2010 09:02, Elizabeth Dodd wrote:
I would also point out that in the time of the Cold War the USSR
completely mapped the UK from orthophotos, with a little ground
work by the spy network.
On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 12:19 PM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote:
If you can map a street in just five seconds, using just three clicks and a
keypress, this implies that you are mapping just the end points, with just a
calculated line between them. Very few streets in the world
I took your description of what you were doing at face value. Being a
borderline-Asperger's type, I am sometimes a bit too literal-minded.
---Original Email---
Subject :Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced
From :mailto:stevag...@gmail.com
Date :Wed Dec 22 20:02:12 America/Chicago
On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 1:18 PM, John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote:
I took your description of what you were doing at face value. Being a
borderline-Asperger's type, I am sometimes a bit too literal-minded.
Oh I see. That makes sense - will bear in mind for the future.
Steve
2010/12/19 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 11:04 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote:
This discussion is simply about the quality level: are you satisfied
with probable information derived from an aerial photo depicting the
situation some years ago,
On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 6:27 AM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote:
yes, in you example you would have 100 wrong streets. I'm not
believing your numbers btw.: I doubt that you can only visit and map
10 streets with the effort you have to put 1000 streets from
orthofotos (1%).
bothering to
join streets at intersections, so none of the streets you map will be routable.
Plus, from what you say, you aren't creating any tags on the roads you map.
Most of the rest of us try to do a better job of mapping than that.
---Original Email---
Subject :Re: [OSM-talk] Bing
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 8:36 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar sea...@gmail.com wrote:
Of course. You can see details on signs and on walls on aerial imagery.
*Doh!* that was supposed to have been You *can't* see details...
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2010/12/15 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
I'm sorry, but no. This is not common practice, nor is it desirable.
Could we please not give advice which only reflects personal
preferences?
Fwiw, highway=road is for when you know *nothing* about a road. Can
you tell me, hand on heart, that
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 8:04 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote:
2010/12/15 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
I'm sorry, but no. This is not common practice, nor is it desirable.
Could we please not give advice which only reflects personal
preferences?
Fwiw, highway=road
So, you are saying that you feel OpenStreetMap should reflect the status of the
road when the aerial photo was made, rather than the current status?
---Original Email---
Subject :Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced
From :mailto:sea...@gmail.com
Date :Sun Dec 19 10:17:51 America
On Sun, 19 Dec 2010 19:19:03 +
John F. Eldredge j...@jfeldredge.com wrote:
So, you are saying that you feel OpenStreetMap should reflect the
status of the road when the aerial photo was made, rather than the
current status?
The road in question in the original post was on nearmap imagery
Yes, but seav80 was saying that he or she prefers data made from the aerial
view (up to 3 months old, and without some details observable only from the
ground) to data recorded by someone going now to the location on the ground.
---Original Email---
Subject :Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 11:04 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote:
This discussion is simply about the quality level: are you satisfied
with probable information derived from an aerial photo depicting the
situation some years ago, or do you want to insert only information
you
wrote:
So, you are saying that you feel OpenStreetMap should reflect the status of
the road when the aerial photo was made, rather than the current status?
---Original Email---
Subject :Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced
From :mailto:sea...@gmail.com
Date :Sun Dec 19 10:17:51
---
Subject :Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced
From :mailto:sea...@gmail.com
Date :Sun Dec 19 10:17:51 America/Chicago 2010
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 8:04 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote:
2010/12/15 Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com:
I'm sorry, but no. This is not common
.
---Original Email---
Subject :Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced
From :mailto:sea...@gmail.com
Date :Sun Dec 19 18:00:21 America/Chicago 2010
For *that* particular imagery, yes.
My point is that blindly saying that you shouldn't trace from imagery
if you haven't visited
available from visiting the
site in person that you wouldn't be able to detect from an aerial view, plus
you would be able to tell if the road had been modified since the aerial
photo had been taken.
---Original Email---
Subject :Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced
From :mailto:sea
On 15/12/2010 11:16, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer wrote:
Please tag roads derived from aerial imagery as
highway=road
No real need. From Bing you can deduce whether it's residential or
service etc.
Dave F.
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2010/12/9 Ulf Lamping ulf.lamp...@googlemail.com:
What the whole discussion here seems to be missing: You can't read street
names from bing (or Yahoo) imagery.
+1, and you can't see restrictions, surface quality and material,
oneways, etc. on them. That's why there is highway=road. You should
Quite a lot of car parks and other roads have one way arrows visible on the
bing imagry, often the position of speedlimits are available too, although
this might just be a uk only tendancy. Certainly helps in completing places
I have visited without a gps and pen/paper. Then again I have only
On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 10:16 PM, M∡rtin Koppenhoefer
dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote:
+1, and you can't see restrictions, surface quality and material,
oneways, etc. on them. That's why there is highway=road. You should
avoid to tag highway=specific-highway-class if you don't know the
location
On Wed, 15 Dec 2010 22:45:56 +1100, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com
wrote:
Fwiw, highway=road is for when you know *nothing* about a road. Can
you tell me, hand on heart, that you would not tag this road:
http://www.nearmap.com/?ll=-38.107325,145.15275z=20t=knmd=20101020
as
On 08/12/2010 14:35, Maarten Deen wrote:
I have never heard of this before and have never seen it documented
anywhere or seen discussed before. The only mention of do not trace
from aerial maps is when it is off Google's maps because we cannot
legaly use them.
Never before have I seen a
On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 11:50 AM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net wrote:
But _intensive_ tracing can and does kill people's motivation. Doesn't
matter whether you think the people are misguided or pompous, it happens.
I've seen it in Worcester, in the East Midlands, in Northern Ireland.
Joseph Reeves wrote:
Sorry, but I find this to be a really negative attitude; there's loads
of people that want to draw a line on the map for the first time, but
less who want to tidy existing streets, or just add POIs. What would
be wrong, for example, with collecting the first GPS trace of
Steve,
On 12/09/10 13:34, Steve Bennett wrote:
Excellent. Finally a rational argument against tracing in certain
situations. We could even begin to formulate policy:
You say policy which, for me, is acceptable only for very few fields
in OSM and certainly not for how and what someone maps;
Am 09.12.2010 12:42, schrieb Richard Fairhurst:
Ulf Lamping wrote:
Am 09.12.2010 02:49, schrieb Kenneth Gonsalves:
what I object to is mapping a place one has no intention of visiting
Fine, seems you don't like the wiki principle ...
I think you're getting confused with the Wikipedia
On Thu, 2010-12-09 at 23:34 +1100, Steve Bennett wrote:
Excellent. Finally a rational argument against tracing in certain
situations. We could even begin to formulate policy:
Tracing imagery in areas where there are active local mappers using
ground survey methods can kill enthusiasm and
On 08/12/10 08:32, Steve Bennett wrote:
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 4:51 AM, Jowinfi...@gmail.com wrote:
Jaak, do you know that you can change the offset in most editors? Potlatch2
and JOSM. I suppose in Merkaartor too, but I don't know for sure.
But how do you know which direction to offset and
On Wed, Dec 08, 2010 at 11:32:39AM +1100, Steve Bennett wrote:
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 4:51 AM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote:
Jaak, do you know that you can change the offset in most editors? Potlatch2
and JOSM. I suppose in Merkaartor too, but I don't know for sure.
But how do you know
You should not map from the Bing imagery area you know nothing more
about.
Why do people such make bold, absolutist statements like this with no
policy to back them up? There is no policy that says anything of the
sort. The above sentence is one author's opinion. It would be a very
good thing
On Wed, 2010-12-08 at 22:01 +1100, Steve Bennett wrote:
You should not map from the Bing imagery area you know nothing more
about.
Why do people such make bold, absolutist statements like this with no
policy to back them up? There is no policy that says anything of the
sort. The above
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.orgwrote:
On Wed, 2010-12-08 at 22:01 +1100, Steve Bennett wrote:
You should not map from the Bing imagery area you know nothing more
about.
Why do people such make bold, absolutist statements like this with no
policy
On 8 December 2010 11:05, Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.org wrote:
you should not map from any imagery area you know nothing more about.
Period.
People should be nicer to their parents. Period
Dermot
--
--
Igaühel on siin oma laul
ja ma oma ei leiagi
On Wed, 2010-12-08 at 12:10 +0100, Raphaël Pinson wrote:
you should not map from any imagery area you know nothing more
about.
Period.
So, just to make that clear: when aerial imagery of, say, Pakistan, is
made
available to help mapping, I should not trace anything unless I've
On Wed, 08 Dec 2010 16:35:31 +0530
Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.org wrote:
you should not map from any imagery area you know nothing more about.
Period.
So how about Haiti? Colombia?
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On Wed, 2010-12-08 at 22:37 +1100, Elizabeth Dodd wrote:
On Wed, 08 Dec 2010 16:35:31 +0530
Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.org wrote:
you should not map from any imagery area you know nothing more
about.
Period.
So how about Haiti? Colombia?
exceptional circumstances sometimes need
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 10:05 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.org wrote:
you should not map from any imagery area you know nothing more about.
If there's consensus for this view, get it documented on the wiki, and
call it policy.
Otherwise, it's just yet another round of pointless You must
On 8 December 2010 13:18, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 10:05 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.org wrote:
you should not map from any imagery area you know nothing more about.
If there's consensus for this view, get it documented on the wiki, and
call it
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote:
I mean, am I the only one that thinks inventing commandments and
yelling them at each other is pointless?
I should apologise here for picking on two innocent individuals. I was
trying to offer a criticism of the culture
OpenStreetMap is still a wiki though? So if I find a future travel
destination missing from OSM, but covered by Bing, where's the harm in
tracing it? In many parts of the world there is no such thing as
local mappers and even if I did trace a load of crap into the
database, anyone else can come
Matt Williams wrote:
On 8 December 2010 13:18, Steve Bennett stevag...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 10:05 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.org wrote:
you should not map from any imagery area you know nothing more about.
If there's consensus for this view, get it documented on
On Wed, Dec 08, 2010 at 10:01:45PM +1100, Steve Bennett wrote:
You should not map from the Bing imagery area you know nothing more
about.
Why do people such make bold, absolutist statements like this with no
policy to back them up?
Absolutist? 'Should not' is not 'must not'. And have you
Steve Bennett wrote:
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 10:05 PM, Kenneth Gonsalves law...@au-kbc.org
wrote:
you should not map from any imagery area you know nothing more about.
If there's consensus for this view, get it documented on the wiki, and
call it policy.
On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 8:33 AM, davespod osmli...@dellams.fastmail.fm wrote:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners_Guide_1.1
See item 3.*
Very interesting. That line was added by Ben in January 2009, and
that sentence hasn't been touched since.
So the question arises: does the
I have seen a similar error in google sat for the area of brod, in
kosovo. Bing is not even worth looking at for kosovo
On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 2:26 PM, Jaak Laineste jaak.laine...@gmail.com wrote:
It is good news that Bing aerials are available. The bad news is that
Bing has made exactly
Am 08.12.2010 22:59, schrieb Steve Bennett:
On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 8:33 AM, davespodosmli...@dellams.fastmail.fm wrote:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners_Guide_1.1
See item 3.*
Very interesting. That line was added by Ben in January 2009, and
that sentence hasn't been touched
Steve Bennett wrote:
On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 8:33 AM, davespod osmli...@dellams.fastmail.fm
wrote:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners_Guide_1.1
See item 3.*
Very interesting. That line was added by Ben in January 2009, and
that sentence hasn't been touched since.
Bah! You're
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 10:46 PM, davespod osmli...@dellams.fastmail.fm wrote:
I have cancelled a trip to survey some lonely country lanes after someone else
remotely traced them.
A flying trip is only partway up the scale of desirability. What you
want is someone who really knows the area.
Hi,
Ulf Lamping wrote:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Beginners_Guide_1.1
See item 3.*
So the question arises: does the community support this view?
No.
I've changed the wording, trying to still say that tracing is *better*
if you have local knowledge, but local knowledge is not
Richard Mann wrote:
I wouldn't recommend remote tracing, but if you do it with due care,
or maybe to supplement stuff you have surveyed (or maybe even just
seen out of the window when passing),
I completely agree that supplementing stuff you have surveyed or even
tracing something you have
By the way, I don't think the intention is to suggest that it is not ok to
trace an area and then visit it to correct errors and add detail. It is when
you are not going to do that, it is frowned upon. I can understand why. I
have cancelled a trip to survey some lonely country lanes after
On 08/12/2010 21:59, Steve Bennett wrote:
So the question arises: does the community support this view?
Unlike the Life of Brian, here everyone does seem to be an individual -
I suspect that you'll get as many answers as there are mappers.
Speaking entirely personally, I do mostly only map
added a few minor
roads that were built too recently to be in the TIGER data, plus mapping the
zoo and a couple of small cemeteries.
---Original Email---
Subject :Re: [OSM-talk] Bing maps is misplaced
From :mailto:li...@mail.atownsend.org.uk
Date :Wed Dec 08 18:15:39 America/Chicago
Am 08.12.2010 23:46, schrieb davespod:
By the way, I don't think the intention is to suggest that it is not ok to
trace an area and then visit it to correct errors and add detail. It is when
you are not going to do that, it is frowned upon. I can understand why. I
have cancelled a trip to survey
On Wed, 2010-12-08 at 12:53 +, Joseph Reeves wrote:
local mappers and even if I did trace a load of crap into the
database, anyone else can come along and, providing they've got a
better data source than I, fix it.
please keep off India
--
regards
Kenneth Gonsalves
Am 09.12.2010 02:49, schrieb Kenneth Gonsalves:
On Thu, 2010-12-09 at 08:59 +1100, Steve Bennett wrote:
(Personally, I would be arguing against it. Don't do X because the
result would be less accurate than if you did Y is an unhelpful kind
of perfectionism. The line makes the point that
At 2010-12-08 04:53, Joseph Reeves wrote:
OpenStreetMap is still a wiki though? So if I find a future travel
destination missing from OSM, but covered by Bing, where's the harm in
tracing it? In many parts of the world there is no such thing as
local mappers and even if I did trace a load of
At 2010-12-08 14:46, davespod wrote:
I have cancelled a trip to survey some lonely country lanes after someone else
remotely traced them. Had I gone, the map would have gained POIs instead of
just a line. But it scarcely seemed worth the trip for what might have been
a couple of postboxes and
On Thu, 2010-12-09 at 03:16 +0100, Ulf Lamping wrote:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=13.03175lon=77.56565zoom=17layers=M
before the conference I did a rough sketch from satellite imagery.
On
arrival at the spot I found that the ground reality was totally at
variance with the
Jaak Laineste wrote:
It is good news that Bing aerials are available. The bad news is that
Bing has made exactly the same mistake as Google, who has managed to
misplace aerials in some areas in the beginning of September 2009.
They are shifted about 20-25 meters, which makes them quite unusable
2010/12/7 Jean-Marc Liotier j...@liotier.org:
Others have noticed it. Among them :
http://blog.samat.org/p/Bing-Imagery-Misaligned-at-Lower-Zooms#comment-17501
and http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/halfd/diary/12471
In our case it is not even better in higher zooms.
It seems really depend on
Jaak, do you know that you can change the offset in most editors? Potlatch2
and JOSM. I suppose in Merkaartor too, but I don't know for sure.
2010/12/7 Jaak Laineste jaak.laine...@gmail.com
2010/12/7 Jean-Marc Liotier j...@liotier.org:
Others have noticed it. Among them :
On Tue, 7 Dec 2010 18:51:13 +0100
Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote:
[..]
Jaak, do you know that you can change the offset in most editors?
Potlatch2 and JOSM. I suppose in Merkaartor too, but I don't know for
sure.
Currently Merkaartor does not support this.
Regards,
Daniel
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 4:51 AM, Jo winfi...@gmail.com wrote:
Jaak, do you know that you can change the offset in most editors? Potlatch2
and JOSM. I suppose in Merkaartor too, but I don't know for sure.
But how do you know which direction to offset and by how much? Is the
Bing imagery really
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