Re: [Talk-transit] Railway route relations

2009-08-11 Thread Jochen Topf
On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 01:31:10AM +0200, Cartinus wrote: On Monday 10 August 2009 09:10:15 Jochen Topf wrote: The infrastructure route is something different from the moving vehicles forming a route. They are two different concepts, so they deserve their own keys. A bicycle route or

[OSM-legal-talk] Drawing reading a copyrighted map side-by-side

2009-08-11 Thread David Paleino
Hello, we're having a discussion on talk-it@ about using copyrighted maps to trace a border (or anything else, to be honest). I mapped two archaeological sites, and have printed maps (bought at the respective sites) for them. They're implicitely copyrighted material, and now I'm only missing the

Re: [OSM-legal-talk] Re-licensing and public domain contribution as an user option

2009-08-11 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi, Gioele wrote: Instead of choosing between re-licensing to ODbL and having their contribution removed, they could choose to release their contribution (past and future) into public domain. Should we go ahead with the ODbL relicensing - a question that is still not answered and for which

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Jacek Konieczny
On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 09:12:10AM +1000, Roy Wallace wrote: - Do we tag generic trails as highway=path or does this tag have a more complex meaning? I don't think there is any such thing as a generic trail. I think highway=path should simply imply that the way is a physical route used

[OSM-talk] openstreetmap.org completely down

2009-08-11 Thread Andre Hinrichs
Hi List, I just discovered, that the whole site seems to be down including www,api,gpx Hope, that mail is working. I will update the status at wiki to DOWN now. Please change if site is available again. Regards Andre signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil

[OSM-talk] Openstreetmap on FLOSS weekly

2009-08-11 Thread Lambert Carsten
Hi, Strangely no mention of this that I have seen on OSM so for those interested Openstreetmap (Steve Coast) was on the FLOSS weekly podcast recently: http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/twit.cachefly.net/FLOSS-081.mp3 Webpage: http://www.twit.tv/FLOSS Lambert Carsten

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Tom Hughes
On 11/08/09 01:57, Alex Mauer wrote: On 08/10/2009 05:31 PM, Liz wrote: I would consider that if we have thousands of mappers, that we should set a quorum for a vote so that unless at least x hundred people vote the vote is not valid From

Re: [OSM-talk] openstreetmap.org completely down

2009-08-11 Thread Maarten Deen
Andre Hinrichs wrote: Hi List, I just discovered, that the whole site seems to be down including www,api,gpx Hope, that mail is working. I will update the status at wiki to DOWN now. Please change if site is available again. Everything works from here. The map, the api, haven't uploaded

Re: [OSM-talk] openstreetmap.org completely down

2009-08-11 Thread Shaun McDonald
On 11 Aug 2009, at 08:35, Maarten Deen wrote: Andre Hinrichs wrote: Hi List, I just discovered, that the whole site seems to be down including www,api,gpx Hope, that mail is working. I will update the status at wiki to DOWN now. Please change if site is available again. Everything

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Jukka Rahkonen
Hi, For my mind this starts to be far too complicated for most of the mappers and users as well. Let's assume there is a smallish way/path/track or whatever it is called. Anyway, something that is not meant for car traffic. I would believe that majority of people would be satisfied if they just

Re: [OSM-talk] openstreetmap.org completely down

2009-08-11 Thread Andre Hinrichs
Am Dienstag, den 11.08.2009, 09:25 +0200 schrieb Andre Hinrichs: Hi List, I just discovered, that the whole site seems to be down including www,api,gpx Hope, that mail is working. I will update the status at wiki to DOWN now. Please change if site is available again. Seems to be up

Re: [OSM-talk] openstreetmap.org completely down

2009-08-11 Thread Grant Slater
2009/8/11 Andre Hinrichs andre.hinri...@gmx.de: Seems to be up again, but ping is still not working, why? Is it blocked? $ ping -c 10 www.openstreetmap.org PING www.openstreetmap.org (128.40.168.98) 56(84) bytes of data. --- www.openstreetmap.org ping statistics --- 10 packets transmitted,

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Tom Hughes
On 11/08/09 08:50, Roy Wallace wrote: On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Tom Hughest...@compton.nu wrote: That's a completely ridiculous quorum when we have 1 active mappers. If the process says that eight people can get together and tell thousands of people that they've been doing it wrong

Re: [OSM-talk] openstreetmap.org completely down

2009-08-11 Thread Florian Lohoff
On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 09:02:07AM +0100, Grant Slater wrote: ICMP is evil, nobody needs it anyway... *joke* Pings are blocked and out of our control. sorry. I hope you only refer to echo-request and not all ICMP e.g. destination-unreachable/fragmentation-needed ... Flo -- Florian

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Tom Chance
On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:02:28 +0100, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: On 11/08/09 08:50, Roy Wallace wrote: What would you suggest? It is quite possible that the effect of increasing the number of necessary votes will only result in slowing down progress. Do you instead expect that it would

[OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Lauri Kytömaa
Roy Wallace wrote: Is tagging the primary users intended to use the way verifiable? If not, it shouldn't be tagged. If it is, then is footway/cycleway As fine as it as a guideline, verifiability as a topic and was introduced into the wiki only in 2009, while footway and cycleway have been

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi, Tom Chance wrote: Well the hurdle to jump to change an existing tagging should certainly be much higher than the hurdle to introduce a new tag for something that hasn't been tagged before. Which is precisely why I made a simple proposal for a new process in these situations. But

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Tom Chance
On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:23:09 +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote: Tom Chance wrote: Well the hurdle to jump to change an existing tagging should certainly be much higher than the hurdle to introduce a new tag for something that hasn't been tagged before. Which is precisely why I made a simple

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Shaun McDonald
On 11 Aug 2009, at 09:20, Lauri Kytömaa wrote: Roy Wallace wrote: Is tagging the primary users intended to use the way verifiable? If not, it shouldn't be tagged. If it is, then is footway/cycleway As fine as it as a guideline, verifiability as a topic and was introduced into the wiki only

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi, Tom Chance wrote: 1 – Nobody can actually agree what highway=path means so it is being used in different senses all over the world, which reduces its usefulness to near zero Perhaps it really *is* useless and it was good that our process demonstrated that? We currently have no process

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Emilie Laffray
2009/8/11 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org Hi, Tom Chance wrote: Well the hurdle to jump to change an existing tagging should certainly be much higher than the hurdle to introduce a new tag for something that hasn't been tagged before. Which is precisely why I made a simple proposal

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread David Earl
2009/8/11 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org mailto:frede...@remote.org On the other hand, if your desire is to change something that already exists and ask people to tag it differently from now on, or even worse if you want people to agree on a blanket automatic change of millions

Re: [OSM-talk] A process for rethinking map features

2009-08-11 Thread Nick Whitelegg
Hello Tom, So for example Nick Whitelegg and Martin Simon might lead a group to work out how best to tag paths of all kinds. If their proposal was accepted at SOTM 2010, somebody would create a map highlighting all the ways that probably need to be corrected and a massive effort to bring things

Re: [OSM-talk] openstreetmap.org completely down

2009-08-11 Thread Tom Hughes
On 11/08/09 09:15, Florian Lohoff wrote: On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 09:02:07AM +0100, Grant Slater wrote: ICMP is evil, nobody needs it anyway... *joke* Pings are blocked and out of our control. sorry. I hope you only refer to echo-request and not all ICMP e.g.

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Lauri Kytömaa
Shaun McDonald wrote: As fine as it as a guideline, verifiability as a topic and was Even so the on the ground rule and verifiability have not been on the wiki for long. They have been the unwritten norms of the community since the I'm all for referring to that verifiability where it comes

[OSM-talk] Fwd: documents on OpenStreetMap for iso/tc211 project 19154

2009-08-11 Thread SteveC
Anyone able to help this guy? Yours c. Steve Begin forwarded message: From: Ki-Joune Li l...@pnu.edu Date: 10 August 2009 19:17:16 PDT To: 'SteveC' st...@asklater.com Subject: RE: documents on OpenStreetMap for iso/tc211 project 19154 Hi Steve, I'm very happy to get an e-mail from you.

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Emilie Laffray
2009/8/11 David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com 2009/8/11 Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org mailto:frede...@remote.org On the other hand, if your desire is to change something that already exists and ask people to tag it differently from now on, or even worse if you want

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Nick Whitelegg
Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com Sent by: talk-boun...@openstreetmap.org 10/08/2009 23:2 To Martin Simon grenzde...@gmail.com cc talk talk@openstreetmap.org Subject Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 8:52 PM, Martin Simongrenzde...@gmail.com wrote:

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Ulf Lamping
Frederik Ramm schrieb: Hi, Tom Chance wrote: 1 – Nobody can actually agree what highway=path means so it is being used in different senses all over the world, which reduces its usefulness to near zero Perhaps it really *is* useless and it was good that our process demonstrated that?

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread John Smith
--- On Tue, 11/8/09, Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk wrote: The thing is though it doesn't necessary imply this. There are examples of highway=footway which are *private* paths not accessible legally to the public (or only through payment of an entrance fee) e.g. the paths

Re: [OSM-talk] can search engines index osm data?

2009-08-11 Thread Erik Johansson
On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Aun Johnsen (via Webmail)skipp...@gimnechiske.org wrote: There are millions of references to London on the net, while not that many of Pitlochry. That meaning a search for London might not give any OSM returns unless OSM becomes a featured site, while a search

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Pieren
On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Nick Whiteleggnick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk wrote: keep things simple : use footway, cycleway, bridleway for designated foot, bicycle, horse and use path for everything else. So a paved (concrete) cycle path where cyclists have a legal right and pedestrians

Re: [OSM-talk] can search engines index osm data?

2009-08-11 Thread Aun Johnsen (via Webmail)
On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:30:30 +0200, Erik Johansson e...@kth.se wrote: On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Aun Johnsen (via Webmail)skipp...@gimnechiske.org wrote: There are millions of references to London on the net, while not that many of Pitlochry. That meaning a search for London might not

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Lester Caine
Jukka Rahkonen wrote: Hi, For my mind this starts to be far too complicated for most of the mappers and users as well. Let's assume there is a smallish way/path/track or whatever it is called. Anyway, something that is not meant for car traffic. I would believe that majority of people

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Richard Mann
Path certainly seems to have fulfilled a need for less-good paths in fields forests. I would go so far as to say it should now be recommended for that purpose (but noting that there's still quite a lot of use of other tags for data users to be aware of, and this usage may persist). However, I

Re: [OSM-talk] A process for rethinking map features

2009-08-11 Thread Ciarán Mooney
Hi, I am a mapper who would be happy to have some kind of governance process to the dispute of tags or acceptance of them. As has been mentioned membership of OSMF and participation of SOTM should not be factors, however we are all quite technically literate so why note have IRC meetings every

Re: [OSM-talk] A process for rethinking map features

2009-08-11 Thread Tobias Knerr
Tom Chance wrote: - Tags are proposed on the wiki, no change to current practice - If the proposal throws into question existing, accepted tags, defer the proposal to small working groups - These working groups study the wider questions and formulate a complete proposal for new tags,

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Tobias Knerr
Tom Hughes wrote: That's a completely ridiculous quorum when we have 1 active mappers. If the process says that eight people can get together and tell thousands of people that they've been doing it wrong for the last five years and should start retagging everything according to some new

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread David Earl
Tobias Knerr wrote: Tom Hughes wrote: That's a completely ridiculous quorum when we have 1 active mappers. If the process says that eight people can get together and tell thousands of people that they've been doing it wrong for the last five years and should start retagging everything

Re: [OSM-talk] A process for rethinking map features

2009-08-11 Thread Gervase Markham
On 10/08/09 15:49, Tom Chance wrote: - Tags are proposed on the wiki, no change to current practice - If the proposal throws into question existing, accepted tags, defer the proposal to small working groups - These working groups study the wider questions and formulate a complete proposal for

[OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Lauri Kytömaa
Quote Key:highway: It is a very general and sometimes vague description of the importance of the highway. (Was until last week:) ... of the physical structure of the highway. Either way, the highway tag itself should (IMO) convey they primary description of the highway - the distinction

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Gustav Foseid
On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de wrote: Those eight people can only do this if not even 0.1% of the other 1 care enough to oppose the proposal. If that's the case, then apparently the proposal isn't so bad, is it? Why didn't all those people who

Re: [OSM-talk] A process for rethinking map features

2009-08-11 Thread Liz
On Tue, 11 Aug 2009, Gervase Markham wrote: (in the canal example, UK canals and European ones are different in a few important ways) and the canals in my area are very different again - not used for navigation at all so i'd need to be able to join in - but would you know that I have a

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Morten Kjeldgaard
Hi, It seems to me that tags have proliferated because as time has gone by, people have invented more-and-more uses for OSM -- and that is good! However, it is a problem because mappers are trying to accomplish very different things from the same set of tags. Here is a set of distinct

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Tobias Knerr
David Earl wrote: Why didn't all those people who apparently hate path vote against it? (a) because not everyone has the luxury of following all this with the hundreds of emails a day and all. (b) because many people just ignore the voting system as it has no official status, and do

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi, David Earl wrote: Up to now, we could get away with changing existing tags, but as people start to use OSM for real world tasks and base software on it that is outside the OSM community, like other file formats, we really have to be more controlled about upward compatibility and

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Tom Chance
Frederik, On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:18:35 +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote: Tom Chance wrote: 1 – Nobody can actually agree what highway=path means so it is being used in different senses all over the world, which reduces its usefulness to near zero Perhaps it really *is* useless and it was good

Re: [OSM-talk] A process for rethinking map features

2009-08-11 Thread Jason Cunningham
I agree with the working groups idea, but disagree with membership of the OSMF or attending SOTM being a requirement for taking part. (I wont joint the osmf while it has links with paypal) The working group would have to produce a report, and be able to show they had considered all input. The

Re: [OSM-talk] A process for rethinking map features

2009-08-11 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/8/11 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com: On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 10:22 AM, Pierenpier...@gmail.com wrote: If you see different interpretations of the current footway/path description, then try to improve the description on the wiki, first. +1 I'd also recommend that if there are

Re: [OSM-talk] A process for rethinking map features

2009-08-11 Thread Emilie Laffray
2009/8/11 Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com actually I prefer Pieren's approach (if I got it right) of trying to establish _one_ definition instead of having several contradictory ones, where in the end it is not clear anymore, which meaning a certain tag is intended for. To solve

Re: [OSM-talk] Layer transitions

2009-08-11 Thread Lambert Carsten
On Saturday 08 August 2009 14:11:21 Marc Schütz wrote: no, it's not, it's about relative order in the db. Fair enough. In other words, at any node which is a junction of way segments with different layers (whether the segments are part of the same way or different ways), the physical

Re: [OSM-talk] A process for rethinking map features

2009-08-11 Thread Tom Chance
On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:35:52 +1000, James Livingston doc...@mac.com wrote: - At SOTM present and discuss their proposals and vote As others have mentioned this is bad because it penalises those who can't go to SotM. IRC meetings could work, but as soon as you get more than a certain

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/8/11 Alex Mauer ha...@hawkesnest.net: I would consider that if we have thousands of mappers, that we should set a quorum for a vote so that unless at least x hundred people vote the vote is not valid From http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features#Proposal_Status_Process: 8

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/8/11 Liz ed...@billiau.net: and a working group should contain members from all over the globe, as possible, because of the differences in legal issues in different places and yes, it needs members who are native speakers of major world languages to help with translation into Spanish,

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Eugene Alvin Villar
On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 8:02 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote: Hi, David Earl wrote: Up to now, we could get away with changing existing tags, but as people start to use OSM for real world tasks and base software on it that is outside the OSM community, like other file

Re: [OSM-talk] conditions as part of value/key

2009-08-11 Thread Peter Childs
2009/8/8 Roy Wallace waldo000...@gmail.com: maxspeed:vehicle:weather = hgv;wet;value1|motorcycle;wet;value2 Actually that's quite readable... We already use the : format for translations, so why don't use it for time periods and the weather. Make sence to me. Very useful for parking

Re: [OSM-talk] radioactivity

2009-08-11 Thread Michael Kugelmann
Paul Houle schrieb: The level of radiation may be so low that it is not harmful to humans +1 Radioactivity is just one of many man-made hazards, and, overall, people overestimate it's danger compared to other hazards and often don't understand the real hazards. +1 @Liz: If you

Re: [OSM-talk] park barrier

2009-08-11 Thread Markus Lindholm
2009/8/8 Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de: Mike Harris wrote: And I still don't think turnstile is in any way a type of stile any more than a stile is a type of gate. +1 The English word for turnstiles may end with stile for some reason I don't understand, but that doesn't mean it

Re: [OSM-talk] park barrier

2009-08-11 Thread Shaun McDonald
On 11 Aug 2009, at 16:03, Markus Lindholm wrote: 2009/8/8 Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de: Mike Harris wrote: And I still don't think turnstile is in any way a type of stile any more than a stile is a type of gate. +1 The English word for turnstiles may end with stile for some reason

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Tom Chance
On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 22:49:47 +0800, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote: API 0.6 broke backwards compatibility for editors (with the addition of changesets) API 0.5 broke backwards compatibility for editors AND renderers/routers (with the removal of segments) So, any discussion about improving the

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Apollinaris Schoell
perfect, only one thing to add. more emails to talk will not change anything. active mappers, the ones writing tools and renderers will over time the better scheme will win or both stay in peaceful coexistence. On Aug 11, 2009, at 5:02 AM, Frederik Ramm wrote: Hi, David Earl wrote: Up to

Re: [OSM-talk] sidewalks

2009-08-11 Thread Mike Harris
+1 Mike Harris -Original Message- From: Tom Chance [mailto:t...@acrewoods.net] Sent: 07 August 2009 23:53 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] sidewalks On Friday 07 Aug 2009 23:15:39 OJ W wrote: On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 10:15 PM, Martin

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Mike Harris
Tom I agree with you! Mike Harris -Original Message- From: Tom Chance [mailto:t...@acrewoods.net] Sent: 10 August 2009 10:31 To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway Hi there, I'm 100% unclear about the distinction between highway=path and

Re: [OSM-talk] radioactivity

2009-08-11 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/8/11 Michael Kugelmann michaelk_...@gmx.de: Paul Houle schrieb: The level of radiation may be so low that it is not harmful to humans     +1     Radioactivity is just one of many man-made hazards,  and,  overall, people overestimate it's danger compared to other hazards and often don't

Re: [OSM-talk] radioactivity

2009-08-11 Thread Paul Houle
Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: no, we shouldn't. But what's so strange about the desire to tag nuclear installations? Why not tag all chemical plants? There is a lot of benefit in mapping not just industrial but also the type of industry, be it chemical, automotive, steel, clothing or whatever.

Re: [OSM-talk] park barrier

2009-08-11 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/8/11 Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk: Another property that turnstiles have is that usually one can pass in only one direction. But how that is going to be tagged if a turnstile is just a node I have no idea. A footway going through it with the tag oneway=yes? yes, or a

Re: [OSM-talk] park barrier

2009-08-11 Thread Shaun McDonald
On 11 Aug 2009, at 17:12, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: 2009/8/11 Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk: Another property that turnstiles have is that usually one can pass in only one direction. But how that is going to be tagged if a turnstile is just a node I have no idea. A footway

Re: [OSM-talk] radioactivity

2009-08-11 Thread Jonathan Bennett
Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: no, we shouldn't. But what's so strange about the desire to tag nuclear installations? Why not tag all chemical plants? There is a lot of benefit in mapping not just industrial but also the type of industry, be it chemical, automotive, steel, clothing or whatever.

Re: [OSM-talk] radioactivity

2009-08-11 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/8/11 Paul Houle p...@ontology2.com: Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:   The waste issue is complex,  but I can tell you one thing.  The current LWR extracts only 2% of the energy in it's fuel.  Future reactors could extract much more of that:  there's enough energy sitting in the spent fuel

Re: [OSM-talk] radioactivity

2009-08-11 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/8/11 Jonathan Bennett openstreet...@jonno.cix.co.uk: Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: no, we shouldn't. But what's so strange about the desire to tag nuclear installations? Why not tag all chemical plants? There is a lot of benefit in mapping not just industrial but also the type of industry,

Re: [OSM-talk] park barrier

2009-08-11 Thread Tobias Knerr
Shaun McDonald wrote: Another property that turnstiles have is that usually one can pass in only one direction. But how that is going to be tagged if a turnstile is just a node I have no idea. A footway going through it with the tag oneway=yes? oneway=yes isn't a good idea, as oneway is

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Alex L. Mauer
Gustav Foseid wrote: On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 1:22 PM, Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de mailto:o...@tobias-knerr.de wrote: Those eight people can only do this if not even 0.1% of the other 1 care enough to oppose the proposal. If that's the case, then apparently the proposal

Re: [OSM-talk] park barrier

2009-08-11 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/8/11 Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de: Shaun McDonald wrote: Another property that turnstiles have is that usually one can pass in only one direction. But how that is going to be tagged if a turnstile is just a node I have no idea. A footway going through it with the tag oneway=yes?

Re: [OSM-talk] park barrier

2009-08-11 Thread Shaun McDonald
On 11 Aug 2009, at 17:39, Tobias Knerr wrote: Shaun McDonald wrote: Another property that turnstiles have is that usually one can pass in only one direction. But how that is going to be tagged if a turnstile is just a node I have no idea. A footway going through it with the tag

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Nop
Hi! Lauri Kytömaa schrieb: _When not signed for anyone_ but where local legislation allows cyclists on such routes, people used local judgement to decide whether the way was built as being suitable for the common cyclist. Some claim that one couldn't know what others consider suitable, but I

Re: [OSM-talk] A process for rethinking map features

2009-08-11 Thread Nop
Hi! Jason Cunningham schrieb: I agree with the working groups idea, but disagree with membership of the OSMF or attending SOTM being a requirement for taking part. +1 Absolutely. bye Nop ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org

Re: [OSM-talk] A process for rethinking map features

2009-08-11 Thread Nop
Hi! James Livingston schrieb: - At SOTM present and discuss their proposals and vote As others have mentioned this is bad because it penalises those who can't go to SotM. IRC meetings could work, but as soon as you get more than a certain number of people involved they need to be

Re: [OSM-talk] park barrier

2009-08-11 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/8/11 Shaun McDonald sh...@shaunmcdonald.me.uk: On 11 Aug 2009, at 17:39, Tobias Knerr wrote: Shaun McDonald wrote: Another property that turnstiles have is that usually one can pass in only one direction. But how that is going to be tagged if a turnstile is just a node I have no idea. A

Re: [OSM-talk] A process for rethinking map features

2009-08-11 Thread Nop
Hi! Tobias Knerr schrieb: Tom Chance wrote: - Tags are proposed on the wiki, no change to current practice - If the proposal throws into question existing, accepted tags, defer the proposal to small working groups - These working groups study the wider questions and formulate a complete

Re: [OSM-talk] park barrier

2009-08-11 Thread Tobias Knerr
Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: I'd therefore use something like foot[backward]=no (or whatever syntax for conditional tagging is your personal favourite) on that footway leading through the turnstile. does this imply to split the way on the stile? Do you split it on either side? This can be

Re: [OSM-talk] park barrier

2009-08-11 Thread Shaun McDonald
On 11 Aug 2009, at 18:01, Tobias Knerr wrote: Shaun McDonald wrote: oneway=yes isn't a good idea, as oneway is generally assumed to / not/ affect pedestrians. (Or how many of you actually add an exception for pedestrians when mapping a highway with oneway=yes?) The exception being

Re: [OSM-talk] park barrier

2009-08-11 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/8/11 Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de: Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: I'd therefore use something like foot[backward]=no (or whatever syntax for conditional tagging is your personal favourite) on that footway leading through the turnstile. does this imply to split the way on the stile? Do

Re: [OSM-talk] park barrier

2009-08-11 Thread Tobias Knerr
Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: This can be applied to any way as long as that way needs to be used when passing the stile. The stile should be a node on that way, but whether it is the first/last node or any node inbetween doesn't matter at all. I see this differently as the restriction does not

Re: [OSM-talk] park barrier

2009-08-11 Thread Tobias Knerr
Shaun McDonald wrote: oneway=yes isn't a good idea, as oneway is generally assumed to /not/ affect pedestrians. (Or how many of you actually add an exception for pedestrians when mapping a highway with oneway=yes?) The exception being highways that are for pedestrians, i.e. footway and

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Gustav Foseid
2009/8/11 Nop ekkeh...@gmx.de This is a rather lenient definition that is unsuitable to depict the German use case. That is exactly the reason for the confusion we are having. If something is tagged as a cycleway and I am planning to walk on foot, I need to know whether it is an unsigned way

Re: [OSM-talk] radioactivity

2009-08-11 Thread Nic Roets
On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 6:24 PM, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/8/11 Paul Houle p...@ontology2.com: Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: The waste issue is complex, but I can tell you one thing. The current LWR extracts only 2% of the energy in it's fuel. Future

Re: [OSM-talk] park barrier

2009-08-11 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2009/8/11 Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de: Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: This can be applied to any way as long as that way needs to be used when passing the stile. The stile should be a node on that way, but whether it is the first/last node or any node inbetween doesn't matter at all. I see

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Martin Simon
2009/8/11 Nop ekkeh...@gmx.de: Hi! Lauri Kytömaa schrieb: _When not signed for anyone_ but where local legislation allows cyclists on such routes, people used local judgement to decide whether the way was built as being suitable for the common cyclist. Some claim that one couldn't know

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread DavidD
2009/8/11 Tobias Knerr o...@tobias-knerr.de: Those eight people can only do this if not even 0.1% of the other 1 care enough to oppose the proposal. If that's the case, then apparently the proposal isn't so bad, is it? Why didn't all those people who apparently hate path vote against it?

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Craig Wallace
On 11/08/2009 09:20, Lauri Kytömaa wrote: _When not signed for anyone_ but where local legislation allows cyclists on such routes, people used local judgement to decide whether the way was built as being suitable for the common cyclist. Some claim that one couldn't know what others consider

[OSM-talk] Admin boundaries and streets

2009-08-11 Thread Joseph Scanlan
G'day, Today I have a question about administrative boundaries, multipolygons, and what to do when they fall along a road. But first, I'll ramble a little and describe what I already have. There's a way (boundary=administrative; member of Enterprise and Paradise multipolygons) that runs

Re: [OSM-talk] [Legal-general] Attribution in static/printed maps

2009-08-11 Thread SteveC
Looks good to me, seems to follow the guidelines. On 2 Jul 2009, at 11:13, Rajiv Aggarwal wrote: Hi all, I'm implementing a service/API similar to Google Static Maps API that uses OpenStreetMap data. This is part of a larger effort (www.cellguided.com ) to create store maps that are

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Greg Troxel
Martin Simon grenzde...@gmail.com writes: 2009/8/11 Nop ekkeh...@gmx.de: Hi! Lauri Kytömaa schrieb: _When not signed for anyone_ but where local legislation allows cyclists on such routes, people used local judgement to decide whether the way was built as being suitable for the common

[OSM-talk] Anyone from Hungary here?

2009-08-11 Thread SteveC
Hi I have a contact who has a GIS mailing list in Hungary and they'd like someone to email them about OSM. Are there any locals that can help? Please mail me. Yours c. Steve ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Roy Wallace
On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 8:05 PM, Emilie Laffrayemilie.laff...@gmail.com wrote: We should stop reinventing the wheel. Let's work on those definitions first to make sure that everyone and every languages are on the same wavelength. Agreed. I think: step 1) Work out how the tags are being used

Re: [OSM-talk] Admin boundaries and streets

2009-08-11 Thread Mike N.
The admin boundary has (IMHO) extra nodes (they don't connect to another way nor do they affect the shape of the boundary). To make things worse, I've joined some of these nodes to streets as I worked on the streets and land use in the area. So... now that I have to fix things, I want to

Re: [OSM-talk] radioactivity

2009-08-11 Thread John Smith
--- On Tue, 11/8/09, Martin Koppenhoefer dieterdre...@gmail.com wrote: why should we (or you) focus on the development of an industry-scale-technology with high potential risk, if the sun sends far more energy for free than we need, without either the risk of a MCA nor the waste-problem,

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Roy Wallace
2009/8/12 Nop ekkeh...@gmx.de: Hi! Lauri Kytömaa schrieb: _When not signed for anyone_ but where local legislation allows cyclists on such routes, people used local judgement to decide whether the way was built as being suitable for the common cyclist. Some claim that one couldn't know

Re: [OSM-talk] radioactivity

2009-08-11 Thread John Smith
--- On Tue, 11/8/09, Jonathan Bennett openstreet...@jonno.cix.co.uk wrote: There's a difference between mapping what you can verify -- the presences of buildings, fences, structures, etc. and mapping pollution or radioactivity levels, especially when you're not allowed anywhere near the

Re: [OSM-talk] Proliferation of path vs. footway

2009-08-11 Thread Roy Wallace
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:06 AM, Craig Wallacecraig...@fastmail.fm wrote: On 11/08/2009 09:20, Lauri Kytömaa wrote: So what about things like mountain bike trails, signed or otherwise? There's plenty that I wouldn't advise my mother to cycle on, but I wouldn't describe them as a footway. For

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