Re: [Vo]:[OT] N Korea's Secret Weapon
Someone visited North Korea and took some hundreds of good quality pictures. http://testroete.com/northkorea.html It is not that common to see those from that poor country. –Jouni
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion described how they got Rossi's formula
On 2 January 2012 04:35, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote: Not having direct access I think it's difficult for any of us to determine whether DGT or Rossi is ahead in the game. DGT strikes me as better organized, company wise. The organization is probably being run like a disciplined corporation. I cannot understand where did you get such an impression. Defkalion is still nothing but an unpopular discussion forum in the Internet. Nothing else. There is only one spokes person, Xanthoulis, who is making bold claims, without any real proofs. Everyone who has personal knowledge on Defkalion, does not trust them, and that is just two individuals in the whole world, i.e. Rossi and Stremmenos. There is only one known person who has visited Defkalion »laboratory» and he/she came back with an impression that 'I would not want to work with these guys'. (or something similar) There is nothing real ever presented on the company. And every scarce empirical evidence (a statements from three individuals) what we have, points into direction that Defkalion is a phony company. For me this kind of determination, what is the real nature of Defkalion, is very simple to do, because I trust Rossi. –Jouni
[Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.”
Hello group, Here is a long one-hour audio interview with Andrea Rossi by James Martinez' Cold Fusion Radio Ca$h Flow, hosted on Cold Fusion Now blog. http://coldfusionnow.wordpress.com/2012/01/02/andrea-rossi-interview-on-cah-flow-i-translate-pressure-as-responsibility/ I still haven't had the chance to sit down and listen to it, so I'm not sure if it contains new information. Be warned that audio quality is not very good, so non-native speakers might have difficulties understanding what's going on. A transcript would be very welcomed. Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.”
Mr. Rossi responded to a question about home units saying distribution to the public of household units is expected to begin “in autumn of 2012” adding that “We are in talks with Home Depot for the diffusion”. “We have already started the sales of the industrial plants of 1MW, but now focusing on the household, we have to resolve the issue of certifications, and we are working on those, and we are organizing the production. The target price will be between $1000-$1500 US for an E-Cat with a power between 10-20 kilowatts. Such an E-Cat is able to give the thermal energy and air conditioning for an average family house. With this price, in a few months the E-Cat is paid back, and the expected life of an E-Cat is around 30 years.” Yes you read that right. $1,000 to $1,500 for a 10 - 20 kW home thermal E-Cat. When that happens, everything changes. AG On 1/3/2012 9:22 PM, Akira Shirakawa wrote: Hello group, Here is a long one-hour audio interview with Andrea Rossi by James Martinez' Cold Fusion Radio Ca$h Flow, hosted on Cold Fusion Now blog. http://coldfusionnow.wordpress.com/2012/01/02/andrea-rossi-interview-on-cah-flow-i-translate-pressure-as-responsibility/ I still haven't had the chance to sit down and listen to it, so I'm not sure if it contains new information. Be warned that audio quality is not very good, so non-native speakers might have difficulties understanding what's going on. A transcript would be very welcomed. Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.”
Interview download: http://www.coldfusionnow.org/audio/2011-12-29-Andrea-Rossi.mp3 AG On 1/3/2012 9:22 PM, Akira Shirakawa wrote: Hello group, Here is a long one-hour audio interview with Andrea Rossi by James Martinez' Cold Fusion Radio Ca$h Flow, hosted on Cold Fusion Now blog. http://coldfusionnow.wordpress.com/2012/01/02/andrea-rossi-interview-on-cah-flow-i-translate-pressure-as-responsibility/ I still haven't had the chance to sit down and listen to it, so I'm not sure if it contains new information. Be warned that audio quality is not very good, so non-native speakers might have difficulties understanding what's going on. A transcript would be very welcomed. Cheers, S.A.
[Vo]:LENR @ World Sustainable Energy Conference 2012
Hello group, It appears that at the Geneva ISEO-WSEC Conference 2012 Francesco Celani will speak about LENR and CMNS (Condensed Matter Nuclear Science). While, reading the event program, LENR won't be getting the attention it deserves, it is still good news that it obtained a place in a conference about sustainable energy, and hopefully this will increase public awareness of this technology (although to be honest I'm not very confident on that, since conferences like these tend to focus more on politics and discussions of preconceived ideas and ideologies). Source, 22passi blog (in Italian): http://22passi.blogspot.com/2012/01/il-2012-potrebbe-essere-l-anno-della.html Progress, in the Condensed Matter Nuclear Science, on excess energy production: towards practical applications?, abstract by Francesco Celani (.doc, 1 page, 157KB). http://www.22passi.it/downloads/AbstrCelaniMar_Final_WSEC2012_A.doc Official ISEO-WSEC Conference 2012 event program, Geneva, 10-12 January 2012 (.pdf, 9 pages, 1,2MB). http://www.22passi.it/downloads/WSEC%20agenda.pdf Cheers, S.A.
RE: [Vo]:Defkalion described how they got Rossi's formula
From Jouni, I cannot understand where did you get such an impression. Defkalion is still nothing but an unpopular discussion forum in the Internet. Nothing else. There is only one spokes person, Xanthoulis, who is making bold claims, without any real proofs. Everyone who has personal knowledge on Defkalion, does not trust them, and that is just two individuals in the whole world, i.e. Rossi and Stremmenos. There is only one known person who has visited Defkalion »laboratory» and he/she came back with an impression that 'I would not want to work with these guys'. (or something similar) There is nothing real ever presented on the company. And every scarce empirical evidence (a statements from three individuals) what we have, points into direction that Defkalion is a phony company. For me this kind of determination, what is the real nature of Defkalion, is very simple to do, because I trust Rossi. Your observations a tad bias to me, as are the individuals you cite to back up your claims: Rossi and Stremmenos. But no matter. Maybe you're right. Or maybe not. We shall see. I wait for more shoes to drop. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:[OT] N Korea's Secret Weapon
Overall that seems much, much better than my country. Poor people here are in way worse conditions than in those photos. 2012/1/3 Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com Someone visited North Korea and took some hundreds of good quality pictures. http://testroete.com/northkorea.html It is not that common to see those from that poor country. –Jouni -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.”
On 2012-01-03 12:13, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote: [...] adding that “We are in talks with Home Depot for the diffusion”. Wow, this would be great news if confirmed, although when Rossi names specific companies he is usually honest, so there's not much reason to doubt this could be true. Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion described how they got Rossi's formula
On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 6:04 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: However, Defkalion spokesman Alexandros Xanthoulis told Swedish science magazine NyTeknik that they know exactly what the catalyst is. In a piece of subterfuge, a spectroscopic examination was carried out on an E-Cat being while it was being tested without Rossi's knowledge. Breach of contract. Everything they do is vitiated.
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion described how they got Rossi's formula
What about Jed Rothwell's secret source who just came back with glowing reviews? On Jan 3, 2012, at 4:35, Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com wrote: On 2 January 2012 04:35, OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson orionwo...@charter.net wrote: Not having direct access I think it's difficult for any of us to determine whether DGT or Rossi is ahead in the game. DGT strikes me as better organized, company wise. The organization is probably being run like a disciplined corporation. I cannot understand where did you get such an impression. Defkalion is still nothing but an unpopular discussion forum in the Internet. Nothing else. There is only one spokes person, Xanthoulis, who is making bold claims, without any real proofs. Everyone who has personal knowledge on Defkalion, does not trust them, and that is just two individuals in the whole world, i.e. Rossi and Stremmenos. There is only one known person who has visited Defkalion »laboratory» and he/she came back with an impression that 'I would not want to work with these guys'. (or something similar) There is nothing real ever presented on the company. And every scarce empirical evidence (a statements from three individuals) what we have, points into direction that Defkalion is a phony company. For me this kind of determination, what is the real nature of Defkalion, is very simple to do, because I trust Rossi. –Jouni
[Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.”
I would love for this to be true ..BUT... It overlooks the choke point surrounding certifications - You just know big oil is going to leverage this to thwart cold fusion so it is far more likely that any residential product will first be distributed in 3rd world and pirate nations. The economic advantage gained by these uncertified units is what will force acceptance of the product or risk losing our standard of living to the early adopters. Fran -Original Message- From: Akira Shirakawa [mailto:shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 10:24 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.” On 2012-01-03 12:13, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote: [...] adding that “We are in talks with Home Depot for the diffusion”. Wow, this would be great news if confirmed, although when Rossi names specific companies he is usually honest, so there's not much reason to doubt this could be true. Cheers, S.A.
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Defkalion described how they got Rossi's formula
James, that is according to Swedish science magazine NyTeknik and I am certain Xanthoulis' position is that NyTeknik misunderstood him and their synopsis not accurate on that point. From: James Bowery [mailto:jabow...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 10:29 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Defkalion described how they got Rossi's formula On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 6:04 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.commailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: However, Defkalion spokesman Alexandros Xanthoulis told Swedish science magazine NyTeknik that they know exactly what the catalyst is. In a piece of subterfuge, a spectroscopic examination was carried out on an E-Cat being while it was being tested without Rossi's knowledge. Breach of contract. Everything they do is vitiated.
[Vo]:finally got the paper right
I have finally got my paper The control of the Natural Forces to a point were I am satisfied with it. Previous versions were not quite there. I am now done with it, I hope. http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/zpt/chapterf.html Frank Z
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.”
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 7:24 AM, Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.comwrote: there's not much reason to doubt this could be true. Interesting way to put it. I suppose it could be true. But there is plenty of reason to doubt that it *is* true. We've been all over that ground before. And this is not the same sort of story as the one involving National Instruments which turned out to be false. If NI had in fact *bought* Rossi's supposed megawatt plant, it would be very significant because it is doubtful that they would do it without due diligence. But all that was about is that Rossi is an NI customer. Big deal. If Rossi is in talks with Home Depot, which has not even been confirmed, all it would mean is more talk. We've been all over that ground as well. Rossi talks a lot.
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.”
On 2012-01-03 17:42, Mary Yugo wrote: Interesting way to put it. I suppose it could be true. But there is plenty of reason to doubt that it *is* true. This should be easily verifiable, differently than when Rossi speaks of secret individuals or entities. We've been all over that ground before. And this is not the same sort of story as the one involving National Instruments which turned out to be false. If NI had in fact *bought* Rossi's supposed megawatt plant, it would be very significant because it is doubtful that they would do it without due diligence. But all that was about is that Rossi is an NI customer. Big deal. I don't recall Rossi himself saying that NI was a customer of his 1-megawatt plants. That he was in a partnership with them (or something along these lines), yes however. Besides, it appears that NI is giving Rossi's company Leonardo Corporation more credit than what would be normally expected as a simple customer of theirs: http://digital.ni.com/worldwide/bwcontent.nsf/websearch/2c6b449a3f0f8f3a862579480060a07f Of course, this might mean nothing, and NI might be simply just providing ordinary hardware to Rossi like with countless other companies. If Rossi is in talks with Home Depot, which has not even been confirmed, Again, this should be easy to confirm. all it would mean is more talk. We've been all over that ground as well. Rossi talks a lot. My point is that to my memory he never lied when referring to specific (verifiable) names and entities, so it's probable that the notion that Rossi is in talks with Home Depot is true. Therefore, putting aside the actual content of the talks (which could have ended either positively or not), this news must in my opinion be regarded as a good one, because the more people and entities get involved, the bigger are the chances that we'll know soon if all of this is either the biggest scam ever conceived or the next big revolution in energy. Cheers, S.A.
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.”
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 9:50 AM, Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.comwrote: Therefore, putting aside the actual content of the talks (which could have ended either positively or not), this news must in my opinion be regarded as a good one, because the more people and entities get involved, the bigger are the chances that we'll know soon if all of this is either the biggest scam ever conceived or the next big revolution in energy. Agreed up until the above. If this is an investor scam, it's probably not the biggest. It depends on definitions. Without question, it won't rival Bernard Madoff's performance. In terms of attention from the scientific community, I don't know how big it really is. There are a lot of web sites but how many reputable scientists and technologists are following Rossi and Defkalion isn't clear. I suspect a lot of the following is pretty casual at this point. And how many believe Rossi based on the evidence provided thus far is probably even fewer. It's just that those folks are very vocal and many critics and skeptics tend not to bother. As to whether or not we will know soon, it depends. If Rossi is legitimate, we might. If he's conducting an investor scam, perhaps we won't. Steorn equivocated and gave lousy demos for more than five years and they are still going. What is really going on at BLP and Eestor is still unknown. Mark Goldes still makes big claims all over the internet and has never delivered a single thing. Sterling Allan's web site is always full of promises of free energy, magnetic and gravity motors, and the like and it's the same silly ones over and over again -- Bedini, Dennis Lee, Bearden, Aviso and so on. As time passes, more and more people acknowledge that Steorn is probably scamming but there are still holdouts. And nobody has been able to get iron clad proof, as in a court of law. So I wouldn't count on resolution of the issues around Defkalion and Rossi any time soon. Of course, the more time passes without a single incontrovertible independent test of either of their devices, the more it will appear to be a fraud. But when will we *know* for sure what it is? Don't hold your breath!
Re: [Vo]:Defkalion described how they got Rossi's formula
It is strange to me that they would even discuss this issue. This will really assist Rossi if a court trial determining ownership of his catalyst is held. Is this revelation supposed to increase our confidence in Defkalion? Dave -Original Message- From: James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:29 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Defkalion described how they got Rossi's formula On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 6:04 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: However, Defkalion spokesman Alexandros Xanthoulis told Swedish science magazine NyTeknik that they know exactly what the catalyst is. In a piece of subterfuge, a spectroscopic examination was carried out on an E-Cat being while it was being tested without Rossi's knowledge. Breach of contract. Everything they do is vitiated.
Re: [Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.”
I agree with your assessment. Products such as the ECAT will not be sold over the counter in Home Depot. Right now you can not buy heat pumps there as the government requires certified installers due to the dangers involved. There are few customers capable of making the connections required to operate an ECAT, and I am confident that an experienced HVAC company will be necessary. Dave -Original Message- From: Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:45 am Subject: [Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.” I would love for this to be true ..BUT... It overlooks the choke point urrounding certifications - You just know big oil is going to leverage this to hwart cold fusion so it is far more likely that any residential product will irst be distributed in 3rd world and pirate nations. The economic advantage ained by these uncertified units is what will force acceptance of the product r risk losing our standard of living to the early adopters. ran -Original Message- rom: Akira Shirakawa [mailto:shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com] ent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 10:24 AM o: vortex-l@eskimo.com ubject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate ressure as responsibility.” On 2012-01-03 12:13, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote: [...] adding that “We are in talks with Home Depot for the diffusion”. Wow, this would be great news if confirmed, although when Rossi names pecific companies he is usually honest, so there's not much reason to oubt this could be true. Cheers, .A.
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.”
On 2012-01-03 19:16, David Roberson wrote: I agree with your assessment. Products such as the ECAT will not be sold over the counter in Home Depot. Right now you can not buy heat pumps there as the government requires certified installers due to the dangers involved. There are few customers capable of making the connections required to operate an ECAT, and I am confident that an experienced HVAC company will be necessary. Well, I imagine that this would not be a problem for simpler stand-alone devices such as E-Cat based space heaters, or (in the hypothetical future) electric generators, or am I wrong? Cheers, S.A.
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.”
There would be no moving parts. With proper engineering it will be safer than an air conditioner with inverter and heat pump function even simpler than a pellet stove. Those things are all sold over the counter. mic 2012/1/3 David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com: I agree with your assessment. Products such as the ECAT will not be sold over the counter in Home Depot. Right now you can not buy heat pumps there as the government requires certified installers due to the dangers involved. There are few customers capable of making the connections required to operate an ECAT, and I am confident that an experienced HVAC company will be necessary. Dave -Original Message- From: Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:45 am Subject: [Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.” I would love for this to be true ..BUT... It overlooks the choke point surrounding certifications - You just know big oil is going to leverage this to thwart cold fusion so it is far more likely that any residential product will first be distributed in 3rd world and pirate nations. The economic advantage gained by these uncertified units is what will force acceptance of the product or risk losing our standard of living to the early adopters. Fran -Original Message- From: Akira Shirakawa [mailto:shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 10:24 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.” On 2012-01-03 12:13, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote: [...] adding that “We are in talks with Home Depot for the diffusion”. Wow, this would be great news if confirmed, although when Rossi names specific companies he is usually honest, so there's not much reason to doubt this could be true. Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.”
I think it would be possible to buy a stand alone space heater if the nuclear issue does not get too much attention. I guess it might be possible to purchase any safe stand alone product that does not require the customer to modify or add wiring or piping systems. I have not seen where Rossi has suggested that he is pursuing small devices for this type of applications but I would think that a market should exist for them if the cost is reasonable. One big problem is the requirement to have the units serviced every six months. This is not reasonable for stand alone products that are cost effective and I suspect that this is an attempt to control the fuel where an continuing stream of money goes to the supplying company. Reminds me of the old way of doing business which we all would love to see eliminated. Dave -Original Message- From: Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Jan 3, 2012 1:21 pm Subject: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.” On 2012-01-03 19:16, David Roberson wrote: I agree with your assessment. Products such as the ECAT will not be sold over the counter in Home Depot. Right now you can not buy heat pumps there as the government requires certified installers due to the dangers involved. There are few customers capable of making the connections required to operate an ECAT, and I am confident that an experienced HVAC company will be necessary. Well, I imagine that this would not be a problem for simpler stand-alone evices such as E-Cat based space heaters, or (in the hypothetical uture) electric generators, or am I wrong? Cheers, .A.
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.”
On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 10:33 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I think it would be possible to buy a stand alone space heater if the nuclear issue does not get too much attention. I guess it might be possible to purchase any safe stand alone product that does not require the customer to modify or add wiring or piping systems. I have not seen where Rossi has suggested that he is pursuing small devices for this type of applications but I would think that a market should exist for them if the cost is reasonable. One big problem is the requirement to have the units serviced every six months. This is not reasonable for stand alone products that are cost effective and I suspect that this is an attempt to control the fuel where an continuing stream of money goes to the supplying company. Reminds me of the old way of doing business which we all would love to see eliminated. Assuming it's real, I don't think we know enough about this device to know whether or not it's safe under any circumstances. And we won't know until it's properly tested. In his blog, Rossi reported a history of dozens of explosions. How and why those happened, he didn't say. He also says it's intrinsically safe but he doesn't say why. And if the reactor heats a room by making steam, steam itself is dangerous for ordinary end users and consumers. Central steam heat and radiators in rooms are not usually assembled and serviced by the end user. It would be understatement to say that there are lots of unanswered questions.
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.”
You can buy heat pumps, air conditioners, tankless water heaters, gas water heaters, 60A circuit breakers, poisons, muriactic acid, and lots of other things that can kill you at the Home Depot. HD also provides professional installation of solar and HVAC. I think this fits in very nicely with Rossi's blog response: The E-Cats will be serviced from our nearest agency. We will be closer to our Customers than you can imagine, with the system we will use. - Brad over the counter in Home Depot. Right now you can not buy heat pumps there as the government requires certified installers due to the dangers involved. There are few customers capable of making the connections
Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.”
One problem with small units is the localization of the heat. A modest sized home is much more comfortable with a central heating or cooling system that uses air ducts to transport the heat throughout the house. Is this not the most common type of system used in the developed world or am I biased? I think of Home Depot as being mainly within the western world and not the developing countries. I can see great opportunities for the type of products that you mention in areas that are not subjected to the regulations that protect consumers. Maybe these regions will offer the lead toward universal applications of ECAT type units. Dave -Original Message- From: Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Jan 3, 2012 1:30 pm Subject: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.” There would be no moving parts. With proper engineering it will be afer than an air conditioner with inverter and heat pump function ven simpler than a pellet stove. Those things are all sold over the ounter. mic 012/1/3 David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com: I agree with your assessment. Products such as the ECAT will not be sold over the counter in Home Depot. Right now you can not buy heat pumps there as the government requires certified installers due to the dangers involved. There are few customers capable of making the connections required to operate an ECAT, and I am confident that an experienced HVAC company will be necessary. Dave -Original Message- From: Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Jan 3, 2012 10:45 am Subject: [Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.” I would love for this to be true ..BUT... It overlooks the choke point surrounding certifications - You just know big oil is going to leverage this to thwart cold fusion so it is far more likely that any residential product will first be distributed in 3rd world and pirate nations. The economic advantage gained by these uncertified units is what will force acceptance of the product or risk losing our standard of living to the early adopters. Fran -Original Message- From: Akira Shirakawa [mailto:shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 10:24 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.” On 2012-01-03 12:13, Aussie Guy E-Cat wrote: [...] adding that “We are in talks with Home Depot for the diffusion”. Wow, this would be great news if confirmed, although when Rossi names specific companies he is usually honest, so there's not much reason to doubt this could be true. Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.”
I guess we must assume it is real if we are to discuss the installation issues! I would also be concerned about the dangers of steam explosions or other safety issues if the current design is employed. We might be premature in our assessment of the products that will follow with additional engineering. I have envisioned an air cooled device with a small internal fan to spread the heat around a room. It is not clear to me that any liquid is required if the power is low and adequate heat conduction available. Should we not assume that future product engineering will be applied to solve the main problems and improve the systems? My first desktop computer would make me ill if I had to use it now. It takes time for products to evolve into their prime. The recharge issue is my main gripe at this point and I really think that it will be resolved in an acceptable manner. The customers should have the ability to buy a replacement core at Walmart or Home Depot or online when their current one is depleted. A lot of applications would only require the product to generate heat infrequently and the core should last until the hydrogen leaks out. Hopefully this would be a few years. Dave -Original Message- From: Mary Yugo maryyu...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Jan 3, 2012 1:42 pm Subject: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.” On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 10:33 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I think it would be possible to buy a stand alone space heater if the nuclear issue does not get too much attention. I guess it might be possible to purchase any safe stand alone product that does not require the customer to modify or add wiring or piping systems. I have not seen where Rossi has suggested that he is pursuing small devices for this type of applications but I would think that a market should exist for them if the cost is reasonable. One big problem is the requirement to have the units serviced every six months. This is not reasonable for stand alone products that are cost effective and I suspect that this is an attempt to control the fuel where an continuing stream of money goes to the supplying company. Reminds me of the old way of doing business which we all would love to see eliminated. Assuming it's real, I don't think we know enough about this device to know whether or not it's safe under any circumstances. And we won't know until it's properly tested. In his blog, Rossi reported a history of dozens of explosions. How and why those happened, he didn't say. He also says it's intrinsically safe but he doesn't say why. And if the reactor heats a room by making steam, steam itself is dangerous for ordinary end users and consumers. Central steam heat and radiators in rooms are not usually assembled and serviced by the end user. It would be understatement to say that there are lots of unanswered questions.
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.”
David Roberson wrote: One problem with small units is the localization of the heat. A modest sized home is much more comfortable with a central heating or cooling system that uses air ducts to transport the heat throughout the house. An eCat heater would use the same air ducts. It would replace the gas fired furnace, or heat pump. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.”
Really? Maybe it depends upon the local rules. In this area you can buy replacement water heaters at Home Depot but none of the other items that require you to modify wiring. Surely you are kidding about heat pumps. These must be limited to professional installers with a license as few customers would have a clue about installing them in their homes. I do not have a good vacuum pump around since that would be required. And even the purchase of the coolants is highly restricted here. Maybe you live in an area that has far less rules than I am accustomed to. Dave -Original Message- From: ecat builder ecatbuil...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Jan 3, 2012 1:42 pm Subject: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.” You can buy heat pumps, air conditioners, tankless water heaters, gas ater heaters, 60A circuit breakers, poisons, muriactic acid, and lots f other things that can kill you at the Home Depot. HD also provides rofessional installation of solar and HVAC. I think this fits in ery nicely with Rossi's blog response: The E-Cats will be serviced rom our nearest agency. We will be closer to our Customers than you an imagine, with the system we will use. - Brad over the counter in Home Depot. Right now you can not buy heat pumps there as the government requires certified installers due to the dangers involved. There are few customers capable of making the connections
Re: [Vo]:[OT] N Korea's Secret Weapon
Please if you are interested in North Korea situation go on the youtube and watch some of the several videos about the real North Korea. Here is one by National Geographic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQXfMMHV8FM What one has to understand that North Korea created the capital city as an haven for privileged people. The picture you are seeing in the Jouni's link is not how the poor people live but how the privileged do (well, the dictator himself lives much, much better of course) . When a foreigner visitor comes to North Korea he sees only setups where they show a Disneyland fantasy of North Korea. The visitor is always in the presence of some guide from the government. Everything is scheduled and propped. The food, the houses, the children dancing, all set up to show a decent face of North Korea to external world. The reality is that millions are starving to death everywhere else. Internet is forbidden, any computers has to be registered, cell phone are only for a tiny elite. Any criticism of the government is punished with concentration camps for the offender and his extended family. You get to be part of the elite that lives in the capital by spying on people and be a servant to the ruling class. Please get informed and do anything possible to make people aware on how horrible are the life condition in North Korea. Nobody in the world should live in such a hell. Giovanni On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 7:43 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Overall that seems much, much better than my country. Poor people here are in way worse conditions than in those photos. 2012/1/3 Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com Someone visited North Korea and took some hundreds of good quality pictures. http://testroete.com/northkorea.html It is not that common to see those from that poor country. –Jouni -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.”
That is what I would hope will happen some day. Does anyone know whether or not Rossi or Defkalion are designing their devices to standards required for the refit? My main question is related to the knowledge required for the installation and the local rules. Here, Home Depot does not sell heat pumps because they say you must have a license in order to install it. I actually asked once when my unit failed. Would there not be a major warranty issue if the customer just took it home and then screwed up the install? Dave -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Jan 3, 2012 2:02 pm Subject: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.” David Roberson wrote: One problem with small units is the localization of the heat. A modest sized home is much more comfortable with a central heating or cooling system that uses air ducts to transport the heat throughout the house. An eCat heater would use the same air ducts. It would replace the gas fired furnace, or heat pump. - Jed
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.”
From Dave: I agree with your assessment. Products such as the ECAT will not be sold over the counter in Home Depot. Right now you can not buy heat pumps there as the government requires certified installers due to the dangers involved. There are few customers capable of making the connections required to operate an ECAT, and I am confident that an experienced HVAC company will be necessary. Perhaps a more likely scenario (being negotiated between Rossi and HD) would be to use Rossi's eCats to heat the Home Depot stores. IOW, NOT to sell eCats to customers. Those outlet stores are huge warehouses. I can only imagine what their heating bills must be like in the middle of a Mid-Western winter. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:[OT] N Korea's Secret Weapon
Yeah, anti NK propaganda. 2012/1/3 Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com Please if you are interested in North Korea situation dgo on the youtube and watch some of the several videos about the real North Korea. Here is one by National Geographic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQXfMMHV8FM What one has to understand that North Korea created the capital city as an haven for privileged people. The picture you are seeing in the Jouni's link is not how the poor people live but how the privileged do (well, the dictator himself lives much, much better of course) . When a foreigner visitor comes to North Korea he sees only setups where they show a Disneyland fantasy of North Korea. The visitor is always in the presence of some guide from the government. Everything is scheduled and propped. The food, the houses, the children dancing, all set up to show a decent face of North Korea to external world. The reality is that millions are starving to death everywhere else. Internet is forbidden, any computers has to be registered, cell phone are only for a tiny elite. Any criticism of the government is punished with concentration camps for the offender and his extended family. You get to be part of the elite that lives in the capital by spying on people and be a servant to the ruling class. Please get informed and do anything possible to make people aware on how horrible are the life condition in North Korea. Nobody in the world should live in such a hell. Giovanni On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 7:43 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote: Overall that seems much, much better than my country. Poor people here are in way worse conditions than in those photos. 2012/1/3 Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com Someone visited North Korea and took some hundreds of good quality pictures. http://testroete.com/northkorea.html It is not that common to see those from that poor country. –Jouni -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
[Vo]:Re;Home Depot sells and services HVAC equipment.
David Roberson: Go to the Home Depot website. They provide HVAC services including sales through authorized dealers and installers. Obviously, they don't sell heat pumps to customers off the shelf but do provide the kind of service Rossi might be interested in. Who would be the authorized dealer to install and service the E-Cat is anyone's guess. Further, I think Home Depot would have to be satisfied with Safety, Reliability, and Performance before pedaling the E-Cat as an alternative to Trane, Lennox etc. Rossi needs an HVAC company to partner with if this is truely in the works - Original Message - From: David Roberson To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 1:14 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.” That is what I would hope will happen some day. Does anyone know whether or not Rossi or Defkalion are designing their devices to standards required for the refit? My main question is related to the knowledge required for the installation and the local rules. Here, Home Depot does not sell heat pumps because they say you must have a license in order to install it. I actually asked once when my unit failed. Would there not be a major warranty issue if the customer just took it home and then screwed up the install? Dave -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Jan 3, 2012 2:02 pm Subject: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.” David Roberson wrote: One problem with small units is the localization of the heat. A modest sized home is much more comfortable with a central heating or cooling system that uses air ducts to transport the heat throughout the house. An eCat heater would use the same air ducts. It would replace the gas fired furnace, or heat pump. - Jed
[Vo]:Trickle-down specifications
Ville Kanninen January 3rd, 2012 at 12:30 AM http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=563cpage=9#comment-161992 Does the first generation unit need any other connections than electricity ? Is it designed to produce warm air or to warm water flowing through the unit ? http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=563cpage=9#comment-162379 The E-Cat needs connection with Electricity, water. Warm water will be made. [ For the N.A. market I would have thought that heating ducts are more common. And here he doesn't mention AC. Does anyone use water distribution for AC? I sure hope he's planning on recirculating water. It's my most expensive utility (I pay to get it in and pay again for sewer based on my water usage). ] January 3rd, 2012 at 12:22 PM http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=510cpage=41#comment-162384 The E-Cat will be very small. You can put 3 E-Cats to get 30 kW of thermal power. 3 E-Cats will be smaller that a normal 25 kW heater ( gas or electric powered). [ Presumably that's 3 wafers in a fatcat/ottoman ] (lenr.qumbu.com -- analyzing the Rossi/Focardi eCat -- Hi, google!)
[Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion - Revisited
Now that the holidays are winding to a close, is there any update on the Defkalion visit? Any rough approximation as to when information may be forthcoming?
Re: [Vo]:[OT] N Korea's Secret Weapon
Right, people shorter by 2-3 inches in average from their South-Korean counterpart is propaganda. Several humanitarian organizations talking about 3 million deaths by starvation is propaganda. Watch the documentary and tell me where the propaganda is. Watch how people that were helped by the humanitarian mission by the Nepalese doctor for free to regain their eyesight don't thank the doctor but the dictator portrait, tell me where is the propaganda in that. Come on Giovanni On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Yeah, anti NK propaganda. 2012/1/3 Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com Please if you are interested in North Korea situation dgo on the youtube and watch some of the several videos about the real North Korea. Here is one by National Geographic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQXfMMHV8FM What one has to understand that North Korea created the capital city as an haven for privileged people. The picture you are seeing in the Jouni's link is not how the poor people live but how the privileged do (well, the dictator himself lives much, much better of course) . When a foreigner visitor comes to North Korea he sees only setups where they show a Disneyland fantasy of North Korea. The visitor is always in the presence of some guide from the government. Everything is scheduled and propped. The food, the houses, the children dancing, all set up to show a decent face of North Korea to external world. The reality is that millions are starving to death everywhere else. Internet is forbidden, any computers has to be registered, cell phone are only for a tiny elite. Any criticism of the government is punished with concentration camps for the offender and his extended family. You get to be part of the elite that lives in the capital by spying on people and be a servant to the ruling class. Please get informed and do anything possible to make people aware on how horrible are the life condition in North Korea. Nobody in the world should live in such a hell. Giovanni On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 7:43 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote: Overall that seems much, much better than my country. Poor people here are in way worse conditions than in those photos. 2012/1/3 Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com Someone visited North Korea and took some hundreds of good quality pictures. http://testroete.com/northkorea.html It is not that common to see those from that poor country. –Jouni -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.”
David Roberson wrote: Really? Maybe it depends upon the local rules. In this area you can buy replacement water heaters at Home Depot but none of the other items that require you to modify wiring. Surely you are kidding about heat pumps. These must be limited to professional installers with a license . . . See: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-203013146/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1storeId=10051catalogId=10053 http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-203013146/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1storeId=10051catalogId=10053 http://www.homedepot.com/hdus/en_US/DTCCOM/HomePage/Docs/HVAC_Trane_ENG_Online.pdf http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ContentView?pn=SV_HS_HVAC_ReplacementlangId=-1storeId=10051catalogId=10053cm_sp=SV-_-link_map-_-hvac_replacement http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ContentView?pn=SV_HS_HVAC_ReplacementlangId=-1storeId=10051catalogId=10053cm_sp=SV-_-link_map-_-hvac_replacement - Jed
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.”
David Roberson wrote: That is what I would hope will happen some day. Does anyone know whether or not Rossi or Defkalion are designing their devices to standards required for the refit? How else would they do it? My main question is related to the knowledge required for the installation and the local rules. Here, Home Depot does not sell heat pumps because they say you must have a license in order to install it. Yes, they do sell heat pumps. They sell lots of equipment that requires a license to install, such as electric wiring and plumbing. I believe what you mean is they do not let just anyone purchase a heat pump and drive off with it. That may be true. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: âI translate pressure as responsibility. â
At 12:10 PM 1/3/2012, Jed Rothwell wrote: http://www.homedepot.com/hdus/en_US/DTCCOM/HomePage/Docs/HVAC_Trane_ENG_Online.pdf Yeah .. but that one says: The Home Depot works only with home service professionals who meet the highest standards for experience, know-how and customer service. We screen and perform background checks on all installers and make sure that licenses.. and insurance are current.
Re: [Vo]:[OT] N Korea's Secret Weapon
The suspenseful music talking all the time. Forgetting that most people have superstition everywhere, even by thanking acts living people, like Pope's touch. Being shorter as a measure of poverty. Not acknowledging or giving credit for the NK's reasons for their isolation and thus possible deaths by starvation (pictures please,btw), make sure that these humanitarian organizations are just not corrupted by american interests, etc 2012/1/3 Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com Right, people shorter by 2-3 inches in average from their South-Korean counterpart is propaganda. Several humanitarian organizations talking about 3 million deaths by starvation is propaganda. Watch the documentary and tell me where the propaganda is. Watch how people that were helped by the humanitarian mission by the Nepalese doctor for free to regain their eyesight don't thank the doctor but the dictator portrait, tell me where is the propaganda in that. Come on Giovanni On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote: Yeah, anti NK propaganda. 2012/1/3 Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com Please if you are interested in North Korea situation dgo on the youtube and watch some of the several videos about the real North Korea. Here is one by National Geographic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQXfMMHV8FM What one has to understand that North Korea created the capital city as an haven for privileged people. The picture you are seeing in the Jouni's link is not how the poor people live but how the privileged do (well, the dictator himself lives much, much better of course) . When a foreigner visitor comes to North Korea he sees only setups where they show a Disneyland fantasy of North Korea. The visitor is always in the presence of some guide from the government. Everything is scheduled and propped. The food, the houses, the children dancing, all set up to show a decent face of North Korea to external world. The reality is that millions are starving to death everywhere else. Internet is forbidden, any computers has to be registered, cell phone are only for a tiny elite. Any criticism of the government is punished with concentration camps for the offender and his extended family. You get to be part of the elite that lives in the capital by spying on people and be a servant to the ruling class. Please get informed and do anything possible to make people aware on how horrible are the life condition in North Korea. Nobody in the world should live in such a hell. Giovanni On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 7:43 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote: Overall that seems much, much better than my country. Poor people here are in way worse conditions than in those photos. 2012/1/3 Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com Someone visited North Korea and took some hundreds of good quality pictures. http://testroete.com/northkorea.html It is not that common to see those from that poor country. –Jouni -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.”
In general, in areas where I have lived, anyone can do electrical work as long as it's inspected by a licensed electrician before it goes into service. Ditto plumbing, IIRC. (And if you look at rental apartments that started out as pieces of single family homes, you'll find that enforcement of the requirement to get it inspected to be sure it follows code is often a bit lax.) Don't recall the details, there may be some other hoops to jump through, but homeowners are certainly not out in the cold if they want to do their own wiring. It just needs to be done right, with the right permits, following the right rules, and, as I said, with the right inspections. So, I suppose you could also install a Rossi Roarer yourself, and just get the appropriate NRC inspector to give it the thumbs up before you turn it on... On 12-01-03 03:10 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: David Roberson wrote: Really? Maybe it depends upon the local rules. In this area you can buy replacement water heaters at Home Depot but none of the other items that require you to modify wiring. Surely you are kidding about heat pumps. These must be limited to professional installers with a license . . . See: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-203013146/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1storeId=10051catalogId=10053 http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-203013146/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1storeId=10051catalogId=10053 http://www.homedepot.com/hdus/en_US/DTCCOM/HomePage/Docs/HVAC_Trane_ENG_Online.pdf http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ContentView?pn=SV_HS_HVAC_ReplacementlangId=-1storeId=10051catalogId=10053cm_sp=SV-_-link_map-_-hvac_replacement http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ContentView?pn=SV_HS_HVAC_ReplacementlangId=-1storeId=10051catalogId=10053cm_sp=SV-_-link_map-_-hvac_replacement - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: I translate pressure as responsibility.
On 12-01-03 03:19 PM, Alan J Fletcher wrote: At 12:10 PM 1/3/2012, Jed Rothwell wrote: http://www.homedepot.com/hdus/en_US/DTCCOM/HomePage/Docs/HVAC_Trane_ENG_Online.pdf Yeah .. but that one says: The Home Depot works only with home service professionals who meet the highest standards for experience, know-how and customer service. We screen and perform background checks on all installers and make sure that licenses.. and insurance are current. That's if you're getting Home Depot to handle the installation for you. They're just saying they won't send Bozo the Clown over to your house to install your new Home Depot toilet. That's why they're emphasizing how exclusive they are, rather than saying We deal with any licensed professional; all electricians and plumbers should buy their supplies right from us! It would make no sense for a plumbing supply house to do a background check on a plumber who walks in and just wants to buy a toilet! It's not like it's an AK-47 or something, after all! If you want to just throw the equipment in the back of your pickup truck and drive off, it's something else again. In that case they're not working with you, and they're sure not doing a background check before they let you buy it.
[Vo]:Government Scientists More Efficient at Splitting Hydrogen
Jan 2 Article on Cleantechnica http://cleantechnica.com/2012/01/02/government-scientists-more-efficient-at-splitting-hydrogen/ Looks like Argonne scientists are keeping up with Ni-H [snip] The new catalyst combination drove the reaction at ten times the previous rate, saving both energy and money. Chalk one up for those Big Government scientists - who this year escaped narrowly escaped defunding by the Tea Party/GOP. [/snip] Fran
Re: [Vo]:[OT] N Korea's Secret Weapon
These are all good points, at the same time as with everything you have to put all the evidence together to get an overall picture. The starvation is real, I spent all day yesterday in looking at documentaries and reportage about North Korea. There is a lot of information from different countries talking about the same thing. There are thousands of people that escape North Korea that are good witnesses of what is going on in NK and they say the same thing. I have been in the Baltic after the fall of the Soviet Union and I recognize a lot of the same signs of repression of totalitarian systems but much worse in this version. Listen to some of the news reports made in NK. The announcer talks as it is announcing some kind of end of the world news even when they talk about daily situations. You have to listen for yourself to see what I'm talking about. It is all part of the same capillary mechanism of brainwashing and control of the population. Believe me I'm a strong critic of capitalism and many american attitudes but there is no doubt the NK is a brutal government. Giovanni On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 2:21 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: The suspenseful music talking all the time. Forgetting that most people have superstition everywhere, even by thanking acts living people, like Pope's touch. Being shorter as a measure of poverty. Not acknowledging or giving credit for the NK's reasons for their isolation and thus possible deaths by starvation (pictures please,btw), make sure that these humanitarian organizations are just not corrupted by american interests, etc 2012/1/3 Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com Right, people shorter by 2-3 inches in average from their South-Korean counterpart is propaganda. Several humanitarian organizations talking about 3 million deaths by starvation is propaganda. Watch the documentary and tell me where the propaganda is. Watch how people that were helped by the humanitarian mission by the Nepalese doctor for free to regain their eyesight don't thank the doctor but the dictator portrait, tell me where is the propaganda in that. Come on Giovanni On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote: Yeah, anti NK propaganda. 2012/1/3 Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com Please if you are interested in North Korea situation dgo on the youtube and watch some of the several videos about the real North Korea. Here is one by National Geographic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQXfMMHV8FM What one has to understand that North Korea created the capital city as an haven for privileged people. The picture you are seeing in the Jouni's link is not how the poor people live but how the privileged do (well, the dictator himself lives much, much better of course) . When a foreigner visitor comes to North Korea he sees only setups where they show a Disneyland fantasy of North Korea. The visitor is always in the presence of some guide from the government. Everything is scheduled and propped. The food, the houses, the children dancing, all set up to show a decent face of North Korea to external world. The reality is that millions are starving to death everywhere else. Internet is forbidden, any computers has to be registered, cell phone are only for a tiny elite. Any criticism of the government is punished with concentration camps for the offender and his extended family. You get to be part of the elite that lives in the capital by spying on people and be a servant to the ruling class. Please get informed and do anything possible to make people aware on how horrible are the life condition in North Korea. Nobody in the world should live in such a hell. Giovanni On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 7:43 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote: Overall that seems much, much better than my country. Poor people here are in way worse conditions than in those photos. 2012/1/3 Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com Someone visited North Korea and took some hundreds of good quality pictures. http://testroete.com/northkorea.html It is not that common to see those from that poor country. –Jouni -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:[OT] N Korea's Secret Weapon
Were any of these documentaries done by countries or organizations not aligned with US? 2012/1/3 Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com These are all good points, at the same time as with everything you have to put all the evidence together to get an overall picture. The starvation is real, I spent all day yesterday in looking at documentaries and reportage about North Korea. There is a lot of information from different countries talking about the same thing. There are thousands of people that escape North Korea that are good witnesses of what is going on in NK and they say the same thing. I have been in the Baltic after the fall of the Soviet Union and I recognize a lot of the same signs of repression of totalitarian systems but much worse in this version. Listen to some of the news reports made in NK. The announcer talks as it is announcing some kind of end of the world news even when they talk about daily situations. You have to listen for yourself to see what I'm talking about. It is all part of the same capillary mechanism of brainwashing and control of the population. Believe me I'm a strong critic of capitalism and many american attitudes but there is no doubt the NK is a brutal government. Giovanni On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 2:21 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote: The suspenseful music talking all the time. Forgetting that most people have superstition everywhere, even by thanking acts living people, like Pope's touch. Being shorter as a measure of poverty. Not acknowledging or giving credit for the NK's reasons for their isolation and thus possible deaths by starvation (pictures please,btw), make sure that these humanitarian organizations are just not corrupted by american interests, etc 2012/1/3 Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com Right, people shorter by 2-3 inches in average from their South-Korean counterpart is propaganda. Several humanitarian organizations talking about 3 million deaths by starvation is propaganda. Watch the documentary and tell me where the propaganda is. Watch how people that were helped by the humanitarian mission by the Nepalese doctor for free to regain their eyesight don't thank the doctor but the dictator portrait, tell me where is the propaganda in that. Come on Giovanni On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote: Yeah, anti NK propaganda. 2012/1/3 Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com Please if you are interested in North Korea situation dgo on the youtube and watch some of the several videos about the real North Korea. Here is one by National Geographic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQXfMMHV8FM What one has to understand that North Korea created the capital city as an haven for privileged people. The picture you are seeing in the Jouni's link is not how the poor people live but how the privileged do (well, the dictator himself lives much, much better of course) . When a foreigner visitor comes to North Korea he sees only setups where they show a Disneyland fantasy of North Korea. The visitor is always in the presence of some guide from the government. Everything is scheduled and propped. The food, the houses, the children dancing, all set up to show a decent face of North Korea to external world. The reality is that millions are starving to death everywhere else. Internet is forbidden, any computers has to be registered, cell phone are only for a tiny elite. Any criticism of the government is punished with concentration camps for the offender and his extended family. You get to be part of the elite that lives in the capital by spying on people and be a servant to the ruling class. Please get informed and do anything possible to make people aware on how horrible are the life condition in North Korea. Nobody in the world should live in such a hell. Giovanni On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 7:43 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote: Overall that seems much, much better than my country. Poor people here are in way worse conditions than in those photos. 2012/1/3 Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com Someone visited North Korea and took some hundreds of good quality pictures. http://testroete.com/northkorea.html It is not that common to see those from that poor country. –Jouni -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
Re: [Vo]:[OT] N Korea's Secret Weapon
Well, BBC is pretty fair, and I think National Geographic is not necessarily a branch of the US government. There are also Dutch and other documentaries around. Giovanni On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 2:57 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com wrote: Were any of these documentaries done by countries or organizations not aligned with US? 2012/1/3 Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com These are all good points, at the same time as with everything you have to put all the evidence together to get an overall picture. The starvation is real, I spent all day yesterday in looking at documentaries and reportage about North Korea. There is a lot of information from different countries talking about the same thing. There are thousands of people that escape North Korea that are good witnesses of what is going on in NK and they say the same thing. I have been in the Baltic after the fall of the Soviet Union and I recognize a lot of the same signs of repression of totalitarian systems but much worse in this version. Listen to some of the news reports made in NK. The announcer talks as it is announcing some kind of end of the world news even when they talk about daily situations. You have to listen for yourself to see what I'm talking about. It is all part of the same capillary mechanism of brainwashing and control of the population. Believe me I'm a strong critic of capitalism and many american attitudes but there is no doubt the NK is a brutal government. Giovanni On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 2:21 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote: The suspenseful music talking all the time. Forgetting that most people have superstition everywhere, even by thanking acts living people, like Pope's touch. Being shorter as a measure of poverty. Not acknowledging or giving credit for the NK's reasons for their isolation and thus possible deaths by starvation (pictures please,btw), make sure that these humanitarian organizations are just not corrupted by american interests, etc 2012/1/3 Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com Right, people shorter by 2-3 inches in average from their South-Korean counterpart is propaganda. Several humanitarian organizations talking about 3 million deaths by starvation is propaganda. Watch the documentary and tell me where the propaganda is. Watch how people that were helped by the humanitarian mission by the Nepalese doctor for free to regain their eyesight don't thank the doctor but the dictator portrait, tell me where is the propaganda in that. Come on Giovanni On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote: Yeah, anti NK propaganda. 2012/1/3 Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com Please if you are interested in North Korea situation dgo on the youtube and watch some of the several videos about the real North Korea. Here is one by National Geographic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQXfMMHV8FM What one has to understand that North Korea created the capital city as an haven for privileged people. The picture you are seeing in the Jouni's link is not how the poor people live but how the privileged do (well, the dictator himself lives much, much better of course) . When a foreigner visitor comes to North Korea he sees only setups where they show a Disneyland fantasy of North Korea. The visitor is always in the presence of some guide from the government. Everything is scheduled and propped. The food, the houses, the children dancing, all set up to show a decent face of North Korea to external world. The reality is that millions are starving to death everywhere else. Internet is forbidden, any computers has to be registered, cell phone are only for a tiny elite. Any criticism of the government is punished with concentration camps for the offender and his extended family. You get to be part of the elite that lives in the capital by spying on people and be a servant to the ruling class. Please get informed and do anything possible to make people aware on how horrible are the life condition in North Korea. Nobody in the world should live in such a hell. Giovanni On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 7:43 AM, Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.comwrote: Overall that seems much, much better than my country. Poor people here are in way worse conditions than in those photos. 2012/1/3 Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com Someone visited North Korea and took some hundreds of good quality pictures. http://testroete.com/northkorea.html It is not that common to see those from that poor country. –Jouni -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com -- Daniel Rocha - RJ danieldi...@gmail.com
RE: [Vo]:[OT] N Korea's Secret Weapon
Please take this topic over to vortexb list! -mark From: Daniel Rocha [mailto:danieldi...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 12:57 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:[OT] N Korea's Secret Weapon Were any of these documentaries done by countries or organizations not aligned with US? 2012/1/3 Giovanni Santostasi gsantost...@gmail.com These are all good points, at the same time as with everything you have to put all the evidence together to get an overall picture. The starvation is real, I spent all day yesterday in looking at documentaries and reportage about North Korea. There is a lot of information from different countries talking about the same thing. There are thousands of people that escape North Korea that are good witnesses of what is going on in NK and they say the same thing. I have been in the Baltic after the fall of the Soviet Union and I recognize a lot of the same signs of repression of totalitarian systems but much worse in this version. Listen to some of the news reports made in NK. The announcer talks as it is announcing some kind of end of the world news even when they talk about daily situations. You have to listen for yourself to see what I'm talking about. It is all part of the same capillary mechanism of brainwashing and control of the population. Believe me I'm a strong critic of capitalism and many american attitudes but there is no doubt the NK is a brutal government. Giovanni snip
Re: [Vo]:Government Scientists More Efficient at Splitting Hydrogen
All of those big government scientists should be de-funded. Especially all the hot fusion scientists -- every last one! Unfortunately, the Tea Party has been corrupted by liberal leaning individuals who want to keep spending tax dollars unconstitutionally, on projects the government has no business being involved in. If we really wanted scientific progress to accelerate in the energy field, we would reduce govt by eliminating subsidies to all energy producers, including big oil. With a true free market (not croney capitalism that bailsout banks and automakers) alternative energy technologies would thrive. I'm looking forward to when the R evol UTION wins the White House, and cuts a trillion dollars in ONE YEAR. The only aspect of the govt that in my opinion is constitutionally authorized to research cold fusion or hydrogen technology is the military, as part of a national defense (not a national offense). From: Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2012 3:38 PM Subject: [Vo]:Government Scientists More Efficient at Splitting Hydrogen Jan 2 Article on Cleantechnica http://cleantechnica.com/2012/01/02/government-scientists-more-efficient-at-splitting-hydrogen/ Looks like Argonne scientists are keeping up with Ni-H [snip] The new catalyst combination drove the reaction at ten times the previous rate, saving both energy and money. Chalk one up for those “Big Government” scientists – who this year escaped narrowly escaped defunding by the Tea Party/GOP. [/snip] Fran
[Vo]:Re: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion - Revisited
I agree. I want more information. As I see it right now, we have zero proof that they have built any working reactor cores themselves. I think it is likely that a long time ago Rossi loaned them a few cores to test, but I do not know if they have built a working, practical cold fusion system. If they want anyone to take them seriously, they need to show some real test results. Then they need to show evidence they are using their own technology, and are not simply using Rossi's without his permission. From: Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2012 3:06 PM Subject: [Vo]:A competent observer's assessment of Defkalion - Revisited Now that the holidays are winding to a close, is there any update on the Defkalion visit? Any rough approximation as to when information may be forthcoming?
Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.”
All of these references are for you to work with a professional installation company. That is what I would expect. I had the impression that someone was suggesting that you could just go into the store and buy one without the proper license. In the case of Home Depot, they are just helping the customer select a unit that is later installed by the professionals. This is not much different than the current technique of contracting directly with a local HVAC company. Water heaters however can be bought directly by the customers and I have done that in a couple of cases. Installation evolves connecting the 240 volt wiring and water pipes to the unit, but they are already in the correct local when a replacement is done. It looks like Rossi is mainly seeking a partner to advertise his products in a multitude of markets. Home Depot is located just about everywhere and hence Rossi is putting the burden upon them to find professional installers within each area. In actuality this plan may be a quicker way to introduce his products than waiting for the local HVAC companies to seek ECATs themselves. Dave -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Jan 3, 2012 3:10 pm Subject: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.” David Roberson wrote: Really? Maybe it depends upon the local rules. In this area you can buy replacement water heaters at Home Depot but none of the other items that require you to modify wiring. Surely you are kidding about heat pumps. These must be limited to professional installers with a license . . . See: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-203013146/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1storeId=10051catalogId=10053 http://www.homedepot.com/hdus/en_US/DTCCOM/HomePage/Docs/HVAC_Trane_ENG_Online.pdf http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ContentView?pn=SV_HS_HVAC_ReplacementlangId=-1storeId=10051catalogId=10053cm_sp=SV-_-link_map-_-hvac_replacement - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.”
So far I have not seen anything about design of the ECATs to fit HVAC standards. Have I missed some references to that effect? We agree that it will be required, but have you seen any actual documents? Yes, I was trying to point out that they would not let me as a non licensed hacker buy a heat pump and walk out the door with it. Dave -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Jan 3, 2012 3:13 pm Subject: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:Re: [Vo]:RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Andrea Rossi interview on Ca$h Flow: “I translate pressure as responsibility.” David Roberson wrote: That is what I would hope will happen some day. Does anyone know whether or not Rossi or Defkalion are designing their devices to standards required for the refit? How else would they do it? My main question is related to the knowledge required for the installation and the local rules. Here, Home Depot does not sell heat pumps because they say you must have a license in order to install it. Yes, they do sell heat pumps. They sell lots of equipment that requires a license to install, such as electric wiring and plumbing. I believe what you mean is they do not let just anyone purchase a heat pump and drive off with it. That may be true. - Jed
[Vo]:Nickel nanoantennas... its all about resonances.
More evidence that we are dealing with oscillations and need to look at whether there are any harmonic relationships within the H-loaded Ni lattice, plasmons, deflated H, inverse Rydbergs, magnetic effects, etc. Note the statement, .a strong magnetic behavior, and that the oscillations are aligned along the polarization direction of the incident light. These are the kinds of unusual coherences that one never encounters in bulk matter, thus, all existing theoretical foundations have not had to incorporate them. Since these highly unusual coherences are not taken into consideration, theorists have concluded that the effects from these unusual arrangements are not possible. It could very well be that current theoretical models wouldn't even be able to accurately model these unusual conditions. Caption from the cover: The cover shows the near-field amplitude image of dipolar plasmon modes in nickel nanodisks. Each disk exhibits two bright spots oscillating along the polarization direction of the incident light, revealing the enhanced near-field at the rims of the nickel disks. The image was recorded by a scattering-type scanning near-field microscope (s-SNOM) within a study of the optical and magnetic properties of nickel nanostructures. An interesting dual functionality is observed: a strong magnetic behavior is identified together with a clear plasmonic response, which could be a useful building block for future biotechnological and optoelectronic applications, where active control of the functional components is required. For more information, please read the Full Paper Plasmonic Nickel Nanoantennas by R. Hillenbrand and co-workers -Mark Iverson attachment: Nickel-nanoantennas.jpg
Re: [Vo]:Trickle-down specifications
Iggy Dalrymple January 3rd, 2012 at 4:39 PM Dear Dr Rossi, You speak of your 1st generation home E-Cat providing both heat and cooling. Through what mechanism can your machine provide cooling? Sincerely, Iggy Dalrymple Andrea Rossi January 3rd, 2012 at 5:22 PM Dear Iggy Dalrymple: We will use a heat pump. Warm regards, A.R. - - - - - - I would have thought that an ammonia cycle would be much more efficient. But maybe it's the same thing! http://www.energysavers.gov/your_home/space_heating_cooling/index.cfm/mytopic=12680
RE: [Vo]:Nickel nanoantennas... its all about resonances.
Extremely large extinction efficiency and field enhancement in terahertz resonant dipole nanoantennas Razzari, et.al. From the abstract: .. demonstrating a metal nanostructure in shape of a dipole nanoantenna, which can efficiently resonate at terahertz frequencies, showing an effective cross section 100 times larger than its geometrical area, and a field enhancement factor of ~280, confined on a lateral section of ~λ/1,000. More comments later. -Mark From: Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint [mailto:zeropo...@charter.net] Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 1:27 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:Nickel nanoantennas... its all about resonances. More evidence that we are dealing with oscillations and need to look at whether there are any harmonic relationships within the H-loaded Ni lattice, plasmons, deflated H, inverse Rydbergs, magnetic effects, etc. Note the statement, .a strong magnetic behavior, and that the oscillations are aligned along the polarization direction of the incident light. These are the kinds of unusual coherences that one never encounters in bulk matter, thus, all existing theoretical foundations have not had to incorporate them. Since these highly unusual coherences are not taken into consideration, theorists have concluded that the effects from these unusual arrangements are not possible. It could very well be that current theoretical models wouldn't even be able to accurately model these unusual conditions. Caption from the cover: The cover shows the near-field amplitude image of dipolar plasmon modes in nickel nanodisks. Each disk exhibits two bright spots oscillating along the polarization direction of the incident light, revealing the enhanced near-field at the rims of the nickel disks. The image was recorded by a scattering-type scanning near-field microscope (s-SNOM) within a study of the optical and magnetic properties of nickel nanostructures. An interesting dual functionality is observed: a strong magnetic behavior is identified together with a clear plasmonic response, which could be a useful building block for future biotechnological and optoelectronic applications, where active control of the functional components is required. For more information, please read the Full Paper Plasmonic Nickel Nanoantennas by R. Hillenbrand and co-workers -Mark Iverson
[Vo]:20 kW home E-Cat LCOE
Based on the recently announced 20 kW thermal home E-Cat costing $1,500 and assuming it draws 0.4 kW (400 Watts) from the mains (COP 50), here is the LCOE and the individual item cost breakdowns. https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/kLBSLYjhfkssP57d3w1J6dMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink What I find interesting is annual cost of the fuel and servicing is 4 times the Levelized Annual Investment Cost of the E-Cat hardware. Will home E-Cats become like ink jet printers that are sold near cost price to get the replacement ink business? But with a LCOE cost of $0.00456 / thermal kWh who cares? This is just about as close to free energy as you can get. No excuse for anybody on this planet to be cold again. With the E-Cat's thermal energy being so low cost, cleaning up dirty water and desalination of sea / brackish water should be low cost as well. Well done Andrea Rossi, what a lovely New Years present to the whole planet.
