Dear Giovanni,
Your post was NOT trolling.
I am probably the one most responsible for your reticence or concern about
posting because I came down pretty hard on the trolls. and that probably has
a few of you concerned about getting the same kind of treatment. *Please
forgive me*, that is not
Sure there is.. a hip dude by the name of P. Floyd talks all about it!
Hmmm, for some strange reason, I'm feeling comfortably numb...
:-)
-Original Message-
From: Kyle Mcallister [mailto:kyle_mcallis...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 10:32 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject:
E.L.
Mr. Bill Beaty, the list founder and benevolent, and mostly absent,
dictator, shut The Collective down for ~24 hours after flushing the trolls
down the . well, use your imagination.
It is back online now and the signal-to-noise ratio is climbing fast!
-Mark
From: Energy Liberator
In the interim, while the Collective was being purged of trolls, there were
a few comments that went on thru the backup vortex, and I'd like to bring
one very insightful comment by Mr. Beene over to this, the main forum, for
posterity.
The thread was about Rossi and DGT, what the coming year
What is really good is that they want to test it for 96 hours (48+48)
minimum. I think that will give so much more credibility to the invention.
On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 6:09 PM, Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.comwrote:
since defkalion feel that the COP is above 20, no need to have a scientist.
Thanks for clarification re Moon -- has a two-week night, while one
of its poles is always dark -- so surface temperatures get low
anyplace it's dark for over a day -- that's how it can hold plenty of
H2O as ice within the highly insulating dusk on the surface.
I saw a reference to a paper by an
He has a blog in English, similar to Next Big Future. He posted a few days
ago on the e-cat:
http://matslew.wordpress.com/
--
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com
His post:
http://matslew.wordpress.com/2012/01/20/the-e-cat-cold-fusion-and-lenr/
2012/1/24 Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com
He has a blog in English, similar to Next Big Future. He posted a few days
ago on the e-cat:
http://matslew.wordpress.com/
--
Daniel Rocha - RJ
Hi Mark,
there have been two different news lately:
The first one being that Ampenergo seemingly has gone inactive
(although I don't know what this exactly means, if this is even the
company which is related to Leonardo, how this would affect Rossi, etc.):
http://ecatnews.com/?p=1897
Second:
Hello group,
According to Steven Krivit of New Energy Times:
Today, Dario Braga, director of scientific research at the University told New
Energy Times that the University waited long enough. It terminated the contract
because Rossi did not fulfill his agreement to make the first progress
Mark,
I think Jones may be even more correct than he realizes. In addition to all
the current research and development by competitors there is a likelihood
that one or more nations have already muzzled this technology on the basis
of national security. You can bet those muzzled researchers
Wolf Fischer wrote:
there have been two different news lately:
The first one being that Ampenergo seemingly has gone inactive
(although I don't know what this exactly means, if this is even
the company which is related to Leonardo, how this would affect
Rossi, etc.):
I think Rossi's best
chance is to stop giving out contradicting information /
statements. A couple of weeks ago the home e-cat was going to ship
at the end of this year, then yesterday he states that it won't be
for another 12-18 months. What happened? There is
Probably Rossi has some NI persons on the controlling front...? If
Rossis statement about production facility planning is true there must
be other engineers involved (although the thought of Rossi doing every
single piece of engineering on himself makes me laugh :))
Perhaps (my theory):
From what I understand
with regards to DGT's licensing, is that the license fee gives you
all the necessary info to start the production. So all you need to
do is find a premises of sufficient size and then DGT will give
the blue prints for the manufacturing
It would be relevant to know what says Giuseppe Levi (directly or via
Passerini)
and even Focardi.
The most negative interpretation is that Rossi
ruthlessly and routinely uses people and institutions for his interest and
then abandones
them
The most positive is that Rossi is penniless and can NOT
What are the implications? Its the university going to sever all Rossi support?
Will they caution Giuseppe Levi from further involvement? Bianchini? If the
UNIBO contract is null and void, who are the two universities that Rossi is
referring to?
Ponderous. Really ponderous...
Date: Tue, 24
Rossi would have all the money he could ever want from any one of several
thousand large multinationals or governments by next week if he did a
single proper black box test similar to Jan-Jun 2011 demos (no surrounding
water box) but with proper independently installed and recorded calorimetry
by
Or c) He is paranoid and doesn't want help after what happened with DGT.
Perhaps he has some money, enough to slowly build the 1MW reactor and
adjust smaller reactors.
2012/1/24 Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com
It would be relevant to know what says Giuseppe Levi (directly or via
Passerini)
I'm not so surprised.
LENR is not rocket science once you read the serious but rejected papers on
the subject...
Maybe more simple than usual metallurgy.
LENR should be called solid state fusion, like transistors were name at the
beginning.
then you have engineering. their job take some time, but
Hello Everyone,
The obvious anti-Rossi agenda on this list is getting absolutely disgusting.
To address one issue, there is a very simple explanation of why Rossi did not
pay the University of Bologna.
Simply put, he is devoting all of his time, energy, and most likely FINANCIAL
RESOURCES on
Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote:
It would be relevant to know what says Giuseppe Levi (directly or via
Passerini) and even Focardi.
The most negative interpretation is that Rossi ruthlessly and routinely
uses people and institutions for his interest and then abandones
them
I do not
Thank you, Robert. This is essentially what I have been saying for many
weeks: Rossi has the ability to achieve a short run of nearly infinite COP-
6-8 hours, after which there is inevitable quiescence. That is both his
problem and his ace-in-the-hole. He has not shown an ability to move beyond
At 04:48 AM 1/23/2012, William Beaty wrote:
Vtx thoughtcriminals. Scoffing and anti-fringe behavior, but
didn't leave in disgust as suggested. Ungood! Time for Periodic Cleansing.
removed:
Mary Yugo
effwivakeef
Dusty Bradshaw
Shaun Taylor
Vortex traffic temporarily suspended.
I think you're right
Jones. Once DGT have their verified test results published Rossi
will be under a lot of pressure as all attention will then be
diverted to DGT and there success. Rossi may just realise this
(with a little help from his wife) and try do
Rick,
Thanks for your commentary.
BTW, you recently stated:
... I have been repeatedly denigrated as a pathological skeptic
-- despite a proven track record of submitting detailed, evidence and
reason based, critiques of CF claims since December, 1996, when I
evolved from being a naive
Jones,
I also agree. However one question: Why does DGTs reactor provide an
inferior ratio? As far as I remember, DGT claims a COP larger than 20
for a single reactor, whereas Rossi speaks of 6.
Wolf
Thank you, Robert. This is essentially what I have been saying for
many weeks: Rossi has
Wolf,
This comes under the category of 'puffery' and it probably relates to net
gain, if there is any truth to it.
Obviously if one can achieve lots of heat without input - COP is infinite.
However, when you factor in the quiescent period and the startup delay then
the average over an
The issue I have with with Rossi's device is the high electricity
demand required to start off the E-Cat and the length of time
required to get it going and then the periodic electric demand to
keep it going. In comparison DGT's system seems draw much lower
power to
JoJo,
I own a small ($2M annual revenue) industrial engineering company in
Atlanta. Give me access to a few good minds like on this board and access
to some lab equipment (maybe rent time/resources at Ga Tech nano group
across the highway - Electron Microscope Mass Spec, etc). and we could
Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote:
Rossi would have all the money he could ever want from any one of several
thousand large multinationals or governments by next week if he did a
single proper black box test similar to Jan-Jun 2011 demos . . .
Maybe. Maybe not. Many cold fusion
On 2012-01-24 14:20, Peter Gluck wrote:
It would be relevant to know what says Giuseppe Levi (directly or via
Passerini)
and even Focardi.
I'm sure that after an *official statement* by UniBo declaring that the
university has nothing to do anymore with EFA/Rossi will be released, we
will
At 09:23 AM 1/24/2012, noone noone wrote:
Hello Everyone,
The obvious anti-Rossi agenda on this list is getting absolutely disgusting.
This is useless in the other direction. There are strong reasons to
remain skeptical of Rossi's claims, and a desire and actions to
openly examine these
From: Energy Liberator: The issue I have with Rossi's device is the high
electricity demand required to start off the E-Cat .
You may recall that DGT uses a heat transfer fluid, not water.
One can employ a reservoir of hot fluid for faster startup, and this bulk
reservoir can serve
The design of the DGT device allows them to lower if not stop the coolant flow
into the heated core unit. The heating of the core can then be much faster and
also require less net energy than Rossi's configuration. I would expect that
both designs would need approximately the same
Initially may be able to speed the rate of experimentation using an array
of samples all subjected to the same heating and pressurisation cycles.
Set out multiple test powders in an array within a reaction chamber and
use an IR (or maybe visible spectrum at more useful elevated temps) camera
to
I'd not have handled this the same way, but, to be sure, Mr. Beaty owns this
list.
Vortex operates by an automated remailer. Moderation is not a feature
of this type of list.
T
Analysis of the design using established physics predicts that it will
not exhibit pertual motion when it is built. It also goes without
saying that you can't expect to design a perpertuum mobile using
established physics. If the built device did exhibit perpertual
motion, then it would be by luck
Well, sure any celestial body in the solar system has one side that is hit
by sun light and the other that is not. But usually people talk about the
'dark side of the moon' as the side that is not visible of the moon and my
point was that is a misnomer. But yes there are regions of the moon that
Harry,
I agree with you. In the end one has to rely on experimentation. If one
builds a machine that works at over unity and this is verified all over the
world, on a regular basis, by many independent experimenter than no matter
what the theory says, this phenomenon should be accepted.
What I
Thanks for the explanation. I knew DGT were using a heat transfer
fluid but didn't realise they were preheating it to assist with the
start up.
"...The
lack of steady gain is part of the larger problem of
quiescence.
The active material goes in
On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 12:20 PM, Giovanni Santostasi
gsantost...@gmail.com wrote:
I bet most scientists would be ecstatic if
one day somebody can produce reliable LENR supporting results (or any other
anomalous over unity energy experiment).
Excluding those whose livelihood depends on fusion
At 11:09 PM 1/23/2012, Alain Sepeda wrote:
since defkalion feel that the COP is above 20, no need to have a scientist.
Static would be fine IF you monitor the entire surface of the hyperion.
But I'm not at all happy with the two-thermometer COP calculation.
I've got some other stuff to do, but
I find it a little disappointing, that Defkalion are not going to use flow
calorimetry for their demos. Their choice of course. It is a bit hard to
understand their test procedure, they specify a Bare hyperion reactor but
what that means is unclear, it also sounds like they are not using a
Being fast to start and avoiding meltdown mean that they have a very good,
nearly optimal control.
Maybe part of the secret is classic control theory, helping to design the
optimal retro-action, once you know the core thermal parameters...
but being also able to work without cooling, with nudist
you are right scientist would love to search on LENR.
Some did it officially and got black listed by their administration and the
community afraid of the press reactions, thus of politicians and citizen
(furious of fund waste)
Some did is officiously and keep the results in drawaer
Some did it in
static calorimetry is ok, if they open their core, and it seems to be in
the plan.
smaller reactor mean also less room to hide rabits...
I think that thei perfectly know how the demo will be, and they have done
it many time.
they probably have a very precise model of their reactor.
it is why
No such thing as a magnetically transparent steel (or any conductor for
that matter) RF will not pass through a conductive material. And for the
same reason high frequency magnetic fields will not penetrate any metal by
more than a fraction of a mm. For a bit of a guide as to what sort of
Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com wrote:
I find it a little disappointing, that Defkalion are not going to use flow
calorimetry for their demos. Their choice of course.
I believe they intend to do that at a later date. Static (Isoperobolic)
calorimetry is a little easier to set up,
Has anyone stepped up yet, and is preparing to perform independent testing?
I assume there HAS to be interest in this subject.
Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks
The problem with flow calorimetry with this system is that the working
fluid is not water but high temperature glycol or something similar. You
could measure the temperature of the fluid, but you can't just run it
through the machine and dump it down the drain. So the starting
temperature will
Lots of good, and *rational*, skepticism going on today.
Rossi's failure to deliver is likely due to the lack of competent experts in
the required technologies (physics, engineering), and that is probably due
to his ego and/or paranoia of someone stealing his 'secret sauce'. DGT
differs in
At 09:31 AM 1/24/2012, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
At 11:09 PM 1/23/2012, Alain
Sepeda wrote:
since defkalion feel that the
COP is above 20, no need to have a scientist.
Static would be fine IF you monitor the entire surface of the
hyperion.
But I'm not at all happy with the two-thermometer COP
Do you guys know about Iron Sky?
It does have themes interesting to this group as alternative energy
sources, anti-gravity and so on. It is a movie rendition of the well known
meme that Nazi escaped to the moon at the end of the second world war. It
is should be a pretty entertaining movie I
It is not clear at all how DGT is initializing the reaction. Maybe the hot
chemical that assists the startup is only used to back up the main electrical
heating element. This may be a way to heat the chemical over a relatively long
time period without too much power and then having it
thanks for the data.
of course RFG could not get through a big piece of metal,
but low frequency magnetic field could pass through, if the metal is not
too ferromagnetic,
and cause induction current in a resistive ferromagnetic nickel powder (but
also in the metal around...)...
but your
A low frequency magnetic field (basically DC turned on and off) could help
agitate the powder and dissipate hot spots, but at temperatures above 360°C
curie temp of Nickel (that appears to be where the reactors operate
according to DGT) static magnetic fields will have no effect on pure nickel.
Convection and radiation will tend to equalise temperature inside the
reactor cavity pretty quickly regardless of where the heat source is within
the cavity. Page 4,5 of Dekaflion's Hyperion product details pdf from
november shows a cross-section with a horizontal cylindrical geometry and
lists
On 24 January 2012 19:40, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:
I agree that they must have a well designed and functioning control unit to
prevent meltdown.
If quiescence is a reality, and *if* it will require a scientific/QM
understanding, the I don't think any amount of 'control
Sounds like a fluidized bed reactor to me. It has to be a bottleneck
transferring all that heat flux to the kernel walls though. I would think
some type of co-deposited Ni/Catalyst onto the kernel walls would do a much
better job of heat transfer but maybe that would not provide as much
surface
Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:
As far as I can tell, isoperibolic (I haven't found a formal definition of
the term yet -- what the heck IS a peribole?) calorimetry assumes that the
entire system being tested is fully enclosed in the calorimeter.
It is often called isoperobol
At 12:26 PM 1/24/2012, Robert Lynn wrote:
Convection and radiation will
tend to equalise temperature inside the reactor cavity pretty quickly
regardless of where the heat source is within the cavity. Page 4,5
of Dekaflion's Hyperion product details pdf from november shows a
cross-section with a
Jones:
If you are filling a bucket with water at 1 liter/min., and draining it at
0.99 l/min, it will take awhile, but will fill up and eventually overflow.
Question:
Could the quiescence be something as simple as heat not being extracted fast
enough from the Ni-core material and it
DGT could use a magnetic stirrer with small magnet rods in the powder.
Or their solution could simply be the geometry of the kernel itself.
Possibly they inject a puff of new hydrogen to stir the powder.
T
That would be my guess. A lump of powder might quickly get hotspots and
meltdown. If you can keep a fluidized bed going the heating would be
uniform. Maybe that is why defkalion showed that test reactor with a
window in it to see when the powder was fluidizing...
On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 3:57
At 12:51 PM 1/24/2012, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Thanks for the education !!
Alan J Fletcher
a...@well.com wrote:
I strongly recommend multiple thermocouples, both inside and outside. I
also recommend an IR camera in this case to be sure the outer wall
temperature is reasonably uniform without
I don't have the answer, but it was my assumption, about control.
Quiescence does not seems to be a problem with DGT according to their talk
and (more important) to their test protocol (which does talk about
continuous heat).
2012/1/24 Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net
Question:
On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:
As far as I can tell, isoperibolic (I haven't found a formal definition of
the term yet -- what the heck IS a peribole?) calorimetry assumes that the
entire system being tested is fully enclosed in the calorimeter.
Storms'
hello guys,
--first
post here--
after
watching the scene for a couple of months now -with increasing intensity-
I would
dare to say that Rossi is a tragic figure.
His
personal idiosyncrasies just don't match the size of the problem.
Just three
examples:
a) Spending
500k€ for an evaluation at U
At 01:03 PM 1/24/2012, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
IR is a good idea. Weren't there some IR movies of FP
cathodes? How many cameras would one need (I'm not sure I'd trust a mirror).
The field-of-view could include a few reference temperatures : ice,
boiling, calibrated heater element.
If you
Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:
Thanks for the education !!
My pleasure. Once a teacher . . .
The atmosphere here certainly here improved thanks to Prof. Beaty's
Extended Time Out.
Is the internal temperature even needed?
I say get as many temperatures as you can get. The more the
Mark,
The first question that must be answered is: it the Ni-H phenomena Quantum
Mechanical in nature, or is it Thermonuclear, on a reduced scale?
There are some that still believe Ni-H is thermonuclear and in fact, Pd-D
could be. In fact W-L theory tries hard not to be forced into making
At 01:19 PM 1/24/2012, Jed Rothwell wrote:
I believe they want professional organizations.
I'm a professional! All we need to do is organize!
ChemEng:
Just looked at,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluidized_bed
and it certainly looks like a reasonable solution. Is the 'high heat
transfer' property of fluidized beds larger than if you simply did
film-deposition (as in semiconductor industry) directly onto a substrate?
The
From Jones:
There are some that still believe Ni-H is thermonuclear and in fact, Pd-D
could be. In fact W-L theory tries hard not to be forced into making that
decision, and has QM features - but if the defining detail of that theory
involves neutrons, neutron capture - and subsequent
(Guenter: Your e-mail is set so that responses here go to you.)
Guenter Wildgruber gwildgru...@ymail.com
mailto:gwildgru...@ymail.com wrote:
I would dare to say that Rossi is a tragic figure.
I sometimes feel that way . . . But it remains to be seen, doesn't it?
He has not failed yet.
. . . in depths of Mediterranean sea:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/8985931/Telescope-to-be-built-in-depths-of-Mediterranean-sea.html
The £210 million deep sea observatory will detect elusive particles
known as neutrinos as they bombard the Earth from outer space.
Usually these
Cold Fusion term SHOULD be used as a way to ridiculized the past critics.
it is clear for me that what happens is solid-state nuclear reaction
(hot or cold is not the problem, like for semiconductors, solid state is
the needed environment, even it is solid surface that is important).
however the
I wrote:
c) seemingly constantly changing his design. See his recent cost-estimates
for 10kW units. Ridiculous.
I regard these constant changes as a mark of genius. This is essential
part of inventing. Inventing -- as opposed to scientific research.
Come to think of it, Martin
On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:
At 01:19 PM 1/24/2012, Jed Rothwell wrote:
I believe they want professional organizations.
I'm a professional! All we need to do is organize!
I have emailed our office in Greece to see if there is any interest in
On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:
At 01:19 PM 1/24/2012, Jed Rothwell wrote:
I believe they want professional organizations.
I'm a professional! All we need to do is organize!
Oh well, so much for that idea!
Getting the Collective organized would be
Jones wrote:
Stated simply, quiescence involves too much depletion in the mass of the
hydrogen so that the high level of probability of tunneling is reduced. This
is where anything that relates to QM probability come in, and you have
already found papers suggestive of a few of these factors.
On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 5:18 PM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint
zeropo...@charter.net wrote:
Oh well, so much for that idea!
Getting the Collective organized would be more difficult that herding
cats...
:-)
I am a catherder. I manage a group of 18 engineers of various
disciplines. You are
At 02:18 PM 1/24/2012, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint wrote:
Getting the Collective organized would be more difficult that herding
cats...
But this is a HYPERION, test not an eCAT test.
I'd like to solicit comments from the list re the Chan/Phen/Ortiz postings
using MgH2 as H source
http://www.ecatplanet.net/showthread.php?100-Chan-Method-of-Ni-H-fusion as it
would pertain to QM theory, to thermonuclear processes, and to the noted
'quiescence.'
- Original Message -
Very few of us are destined to make a colossal financial killing in
the world, particularly on the order of raking in billions of
Dollars/Euros. It remains to be seen whether Rossi's name will be
added to that rarified list.
If Rossi does eventually succeed I would speculate that the history
Von:Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com
Rossi
does that better than anyone I know.
He is astounding in that respect.
He also takes whatever good ideas he finds, from Arata and others.
As Steve Jobs said: Good artists copy, great artists steal.
We have always been shameless about stealing
Mark - I thought you found the entanglement paper. Or . did you not make
the possible inter-connection between 'entanglement' and 'tunneling'?
Anyway, thanks goes out to whoever brought up the issue of quantum
entanglement. As now - it is sounding more and more relevant even if the
application
Jay,
Interesting idea, but Chan raises many red flags. Are there pictures?
Video? Website?
Can you explain how MgH2 would relate to QM in particular?
From: Jay Caplan
I'd like to solicit comments from the list re the Chan/Phen/Ortiz postings
using MgH2 as H source
Von: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com
---
To make a long story short:
EROI 20
Duration 6 months with energy-decay 1 to 0.5
Price 'reasonable'
are the the lower-boundary conditions for a -ahem- disruptive technology.
Can't remember, but it was either me or Axil. what's important is that
someone (you) were able to see a place in the puzzle where that piece fit
in!
The 64 trillion $ question is:
Do we (Jones, Fran, Axil, some of you PhD newcomers) have enough of the
pieces put together to 'see' what the
Chan has put up a website, but there's nothing there yet. claims he's too
busy to engage in conversations.
http://chanfusionpower.chan.host-ed.me/
-m
From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 3:18 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:MgH2 as
OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote:
Jed, as I'm sure you are aware, Jones has been quite vocal with his
prediction that Rossi's e-cats (at least the e-cats we've seen so far)
will eventually be discovered to go quiescent in approximately 8
hours after being turned on.
No, I can't explain if there is any significance to the MgH2 as to QM; I'm
probably hunkered down in the thermonuclear camp, sorry.
As to the Chan/Phen/Ortiz postings, they are totally unsupported, but my
experience of working with backyard 'engineers' and the language they used
suggests to
At 01:14 PM 1/24/2012, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
If you put two cyclindrical Hyperions side by side, separated by a
couple of feet, I think you could get full surface coverage with 6 IR cameras
(Viewed end-on Top,Bottom,Left,Right radially plus one axially at
each end: Front,Back).
Maybe that month long duration is like Piantelli's long runs. They cannot
be reliably repeated. So, while that heater may be true, Rossi cannot
reproduce that so easily.
2012/1/24 Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com
OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote:
Jed, as I'm sure
On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 6:55 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote:
Yeah. It's an itty-bitty space heater at the EON Factory. The address is in
the patent.
I had some difficulty believing that. Then Forcardi talked about going to
the factory and seeing the gadget, in one of his
Regarding the fluidized bed reactor, I was primarily thinking of the
following advantages since we are dealing with solid, albeit small
particles:
The increase in fluidized bed reactor use in today’s industrial world is
largely due to the inherent advantages of the
Harry Veeder hveeder...@gmail.com wrote:
Were the Wright brother keeping everything secret . . .
Yes, they were. About as secret as Rossi is, and for the same reason:
intellectual property. They did not get a patent until 1906, and in 1905
they had already made improvements which they hoped to
On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 1:03 PM, Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:
IR is a good idea. Weren't there some IR movies of FP cathodes?
Here is a video from SPAWAR: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb9V_qFKf2M
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