On Sep 15, 2011, at 7:24 PM, Rich Murray wrote:
Horace, thanks for
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_diffusivity
It's useful to know that water has one of the lowest values -- so if
some of the water flow is stopped in some parts of the Fat Ecat, for
instance by being in some side
Daniel, most likely Focardi don't even know about this Facebook page.
I've heard that, as an old style school professor, is not very confortable
with internet and stuff. When he needs to use emails he needs often
someone's help. He still calls his desktop elaboratore (calculator).
I believe that
I agree with the logic of your macro scale argument regarding the astronaut
and would even add the hammers being thrown to the astronaut could be delivered
from the future and the past - growing from point sources to full size hammers
on either side of the astronaut similar to virtual
Susan, I know that it is written by a fan, I checked that right after
Jouni's answer and figured out by myself. BTW, while written Italian is a
bit weird and I don't understand much of it, but given the way Rossi,
Focardi and Levi speak, I can understand most of it. For example, while
Rossi said
From: Colin Hercus
* Funny that this module should produce 20Kw if it's part of a 1MW
reactor and if it was then how much back pressure would that little steam
orifice generate and how much energy would the system lose as steam squeezes
out that orifice. There's so much unexplained and so
From Mr. Murray
You [Horace] present calm, clear, extremely reasonable points to justify
qualified skepticism -- I suspect Jed is likely to agree within a few
days.
Horace often presents interesting points worth considering.
However, for you to follow-up with your own prediction that Mr.
Hi,
On 16-9-2011 14:55, Daniel Rocha wrote:
And working with old computers would never be easier than new ones.
They actually require much more sophisticated knowledge of computing
to operate them than nowadays. The more hi-tech something is, the
dumber it is.
Hear, hear, someone who speaks
I wrote: I would not be surprised that most people here, including
Jed, feel there are various points which justify skepticism. The
problem seems to be agreeing on which ones and what a proper course
would be. Not that I expect anyone would take any action based on
comments from the
From Horace
I wrote: I would not be surprised that most people here, including Jed,
feel there are various points which justify skepticism. The problem seems
to be agreeing on which ones and what a proper course would be. Not that I
expect anyone would take any action based on comments from
On Sep 16, 2011, at 6:20 AM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson wrote:
From Horace
I wrote: I would not be surprised that most people here,
including Jed,
feel there are various points which justify skepticism. The
problem seems
to be agreeing on which ones and what a proper course would be.
Greetings Vortex,
A wild speculation on my part: E-Cat being tested at Google ?
One of the many locations that would indicated the company.
Respectfully,
Ron Kita , Chiralex
Horace
Too bad the money that went into Solyndra didn't go into nano-
capacitors. Energy storage is the key stumbling block now for EVs
and renewable energy projects.
I predict that this factory will be back in operation in 6 months. It is a
fabulous facility but with the wrong product
I'm allergic to peanuts...
:-(
-Mark
-Original Message-
From Horace:
Just to avoid miscommunication, I just realized that I should note that the
above refers to vortex-l as a peanut gallery with respect to the Rossi
extravaganza.
Being a staunch card carrying vortex-l member myself,
Jones, you're such a teez! :-)
-M
-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
Horace
Too bad the money that went into Solyndra didn't go into nano-
capacitors. Energy storage is the key stumbling block now for
EVs and renewable energy projects.
I predict
On Sep 16, 2011, at 7:07 AM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint wrote:
Jones, you're such a teez! :-)
-M
I'll second that! 8^)
Tell us more Jones!
-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
Horace
Too bad the money that went into Solyndra didn't go into nano-
Nice to see you back in the sand box, Jones. I wuz beginning to get
concerned that you may have been abducted by aliens... perhaps for
consultation purposes concerning your legal expertise on human
affairs. Rumor has it that the Pleiadians and Zeta Reticulians are
sparing over the possession
Hey guys - isn't Rossi-mania already reading like a geek gossip column?
(Dear Daniel:)
The bogosity level hovering around the E-Cat is already so extreme that
further speculation pushes into the realm of Sci-Fi ... after all, I am just
re-interpreting a few published News stories already out
On 11-09-16 12:36 PM, Jones Beene wrote:
Hey guys - isn't Rossi-mania already reading like a geek gossip column?
(Dear Daniel:)
The bogosity level hovering around the E-Cat is already so extreme that
further speculation pushes into the realm of Sci-Fi ... after all, I am just
re-interpreting
Well, I am used to read computer news, so a little bit of Rossi-mania is
good for a change.
-- Forwarded message --
From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net
Date: 2011/9/16
Subject: RE: [Vo]:E-cat news at Nyteknik
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Hey guys - isn't Rossi-mania already reading
Greetings All,
I have trying to access Dr Mitchell Schwartz s Cold Fusion Times website
for over 6hours..to no avail:
http://www.world.std.com/~mica/cft.html
This website has always been upa first time that I found it down.
Updating
Ron Kita, Chiralex
Oops - my mistake .
Should have been Dear Daniele
blog http://22passi.blogspot.com/
From: Daniel Rocha
Well, I am used to read computer news, so a little bit of Rossi-mania is
good for a change.
Hey guys - isn't Rossi-mania already reading like a geek gossip column?
From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
Hey guys - isn't Rossi-mania already reading like a geek gossip column?
You mean a greek geek gossip column!
-M
I'm still trying to figure out what's going on!
The outlet port is very high on the unit ... if it was just the overflow
from a kettle boiler then there wouldn't be any room for steam.
I might have to go back to thinking of it as a Tube boiler, where the
flow of the steam carries the water with
At 10:34 AM 9/16/2011, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint wrote:
From: Jones Beene
[
mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
Hey guys - isn't Rossi-mania already reading like a geek gossip
column?
You mean a greek geek gossip column!
For Defkalion, it's a piqued greek geek gossip column!
2011/9/16 Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com:
I'm still trying to figure out what's going on!
The outlet port is very high on the unit ... if it was just the overflow
from a kettle boiler then there wouldn't be any room for steam.
I might have to go back to thinking of it as a Tube boiler, where
2011/9/16 Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com:
Electric power was just less than 10% of the core
heat production that was still increasing and as there is lots of
thermal inertia, it could absorb 2.5 kW loss of heating power that we
did not even notice it.
Here was mistake, I of course
I think the problem is, that you look too much at unimportant information.
First we must decide which of the information is imortant and which is
unimportant.
Also we must see if there is any important information missing. (This is
the most difficult part)
If nothing is missing, then we have
At 11:24 AM 9/16/2011, Jouni Valkonen wrote:
Thanks for your comments I'm still looking at the whole picture.
This is also the reason, why I do not believe that two chambered inner
structure. We do not have any evidence that would support the idea of
superheated steam and also I do not
Am 16.09.2011 21:10, schrieb Alan J Fletcher:
Lewan told me that Rossi insists that there are no internal
obstructions to the outlet which would cause the internal pressure to
be significantly above 1 atmosphere. If that is true, then
superheating is the only alternative.
Quite often Rossi
At 11:57 AM 9/16/2011, Peter Heckert wrote:
The important information is: There is no superheated steam because
inside the ecat is everything almost at boiling temperature. For
superheated steam you need an extra heater that heats the steam and
there is none.
Because the temperature inside
Am 16.09.2011 21:20, schrieb Peter Heckert:
Am 16.09.2011 21:10, schrieb Alan J Fletcher:
Lewan told me that Rossi insists that there are no internal
obstructions to the outlet which would cause the internal pressure to
be significantly above 1 atmosphere. If that is true, then
superheating is
At 11:45 AM 9/16/2011, Jouni Valkonen wrote:
Still I find it baffling why there was no bump in the graph, when
power was cut off? Do you Alan or anyone else have any ideas?
There isn't a bump in the graph when it's heating up,
either. Previously we've seen a distinct increase in the slope
At 12:26 PM 9/16/2011, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
To maintain an internal pressure of 3 Bar (needed for 130C) you'd
need a pretty small orifice : less than 1/32 inch ?.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/steam-flow-orifices-d_1158.html
(Unfortunately, that's in engineering units .. I'll look for a
If the E-Cat is going to truly be analyzed as black box, we need all inputs
and outputs. Obviously, a thermometer stuck inside the E-Cat, when we don't
know the pressure, physical construction, etc., does nobody any good. (Hell, we
don't even know if it's in water, or what type of thermal
Am 16.09.2011 22:13, schrieb Alan J Fletcher:
At 12:26 PM 9/16/2011, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
To maintain an internal pressure of 3 Bar (needed for 130C) you'd
need a pretty small orifice : less than 1/32 inch ?.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/steam-flow-orifices-d_1158.html
(Unfortunately,
On 2011-09-16 22:19, Robert Leguillon wrote:
[...] This is still supposition and silliness. Every time Rossi let's the E-Cat out
of the bag, the demonstrations get worse, and the power gains get smaller. Please
let NASA evaluate this device, with no phase change, so we can have real answers in
Given that his new test will be a prototype of a nuclear reactor, look at
the examples:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Boiling_water_reactor_english.svg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PressurizedWaterReactor.gif
All of them have the characteristics of operation of the e-cats presented
I think CIHT is for Catalyst Induced Hydrino Transition.
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-243402945.html
Being slightly dislexic I'll have to watch out for exchanging the i
and the h, since I pronounce it with a soft c. 8^)
On Sep 16, 2011, at 8:53 AM, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote:
On
At 01:13 PM 9/16/2011, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
I'm still looking for the 'orifice' needed to create 3 Bar internal pressure.
Napier's formula (accurate to about 3%) for steam going through an
orifice in a flat plate, to atmospheric pressure.
W = p * a / 70
Where W is flow lbs/sec
p is
2011/9/16 Peter Heckert peter.heck...@arcor.de:
The volume of water at end of hose is measured and fortunately this equals
the mass of water.
Problem with that there is only one data point, and you have no way
know whether the system was in equilibrium or not or if the power
production was
2011/9/17 Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com:
Given that his new test will be a prototype of a nuclear reactor, look at
the examples:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Boiling_water_reactor_english.svg
Finally someone realized that E-Cat is just typical miniature BWR! ^^
Therefore Rossi's
Am 16.09.2011 23:25, schrieb Alan J Fletcher:
At 01:13 PM 9/16/2011, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
I'm still looking for the 'orifice' needed to create 3 Bar internal
pressure.
Napier's formula (accurate to about 3%) for steam going through an
orifice in a flat plate, to atmospheric pressure.
W
About basic of operation of BWR and steam related to nuclear there is
good reference and also theory of operation on CANDU
http://goo.gl/6iXex
look for thermodynamics and hydraulics.
mic
2011/9/16 Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com:
2011/9/17 Daniel Rocha danieldi...@gmail.com:
Given
At 12:26 PM 9/16/2011, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
I still think that the 2-chamber
design explains more than the 1-chamber 3-bar design. The core
could easily be engineered with a water-efficient heat exchanger in one
chamber, and a steam-efficient heat exchanger in the
other.
From Lewan's report :
Am 16.09.2011 23:52, schrieb Alan J Fletcher:
That's super-heating.
So to confirm Rossi's statements (130C, 1 Bar Pressure, No restrictor
orifice, No direct fluid overflow) we would need to show that 130C (or
maybe 120C) superheated steam (ie NO liquid water) at 11 kg/hr will
condense to
At 01:22 PM 9/16/2011, Peter Heckert wrote:
Possibly he will not create
overpressure in the 1MW system. We dont know. Only Rossi knows.
So if you have the guts and go into this big 1 MW box under full
operation then your health and live is subject to god's grace and Rossis
skills if something
I was just throwing some random thoughts. I am not sure where you were
ironic, if you were anywhere at all...
-- Forwarded message --
From: Jouni Valkonen jounivalko...@gmail.com
Date: 2011/9/16
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Thoughts on the eCat and 130C steam
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 6:47 PM, Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:
Dear Andrea Rossi,
Before the 1MW plant is taken into operation would it be necessary to have
the system certified according to the ASME Pressure Vessel Code?
Kind regards, Simon
Dear Simon Knight:
We are studying the
On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 6:47 PM, Alan J Fletcher a...@well.com wrote:
Dear Pietro F:
. . .
Professors: the steam circuit will be a closed circuit with a condenser and
will exchange heat with a flow of liquid water: basically, we will have a
primary circuit of the E-Cat and a secondary
It seems nonsensical to hypothesize all kinds of things regarding the
new E-cat when the detailed structure of the device itself is an
unknown and at best second hand or indirect information. Lack of
this knowledge, and the fact that normal operation of the device is
dynamic, indicate the
On Sep 16, 2011, at 2:47 PM, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
Andrea Rossi
September 16th, 2011 at 3:07 AM
Dear Pietro F:
Yes we have very big financial problems, because I have spent on
this all the money I had, and sold all I had, also because the
Customer we counted on could not maintain his
Hi Horace,
Your 3rd scenario may be right. From mats Report
According to Andrea Rossi the increased
dimension is due to a larger volume inside where the water is heated,
approximately 30 liters, and a larger heat-exchanger with a greater
surface which should result in a more effective heat
From: Ron Kita
A wild speculation on my part: E-Cat being tested at Google ?
One of the many locations that would indicated the company.
Not long ago Google had been speculated as a possible Rossi USA partner
within the Vort Collective.
Along similar lines, and FWIW, the
2011/9/17 Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net:
A heat exchange system can be very accurate. The advantage is it does not
matter what happens to the cooling water beyond the bounds where the
thermometers are located, provided it comes back cool enough and with enough
flow to do the job. To
2011/9/17 Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net:
Measuring momentary powers and flows is not adequate because the powers and
flows are dynamic.
We need to measure the pressure, because only steam contributes for
the pressure and of course steam production rate is directly
proportional to total
Hi Colin,
Alan Fletcher gets the credit for that scenario.
Best regards,
Horace Heffner
http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
On Sep 16, 2011, at 4:39 PM, Colin Hercus wrote:
Hi Horace,
Your 3rd scenario may be right. From mats Report
According to Andrea Rossi the increased
dimension is
On Sep 16, 2011, at 5:01 PM, Jouni Valkonen wrote:
2011/9/17 Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net:
A heat exchange system can be very accurate. The advantage is it
does not
matter what happens to the cooling water beyond the bounds where the
thermometers are located, provided it comes
Sigh.
On Sep 16, 2011, at 5:33 PM, Jouni Valkonen wrote:
2011/9/17 Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net:
Measuring momentary powers and flows is not adequate because the
powers and
flows are dynamic.
We need to measure the pressure, because only steam contributes for
the pressure and
In reply to OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson's message of Fri, 16 Sep 2011
19:52:38 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
Google used 2.3 megawatt-hours of juice in 2010...enough to
power Salt Lake City.
This works out to an average power of 262 W. Somehow I doubt the figure is
accurate. ;)
Regards,
Robin van
2011/9/17 Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net:
Hundreds of man days have been wasted. If the job were done right the first
time a lot of labor and money could have been saved, not only for Rossi and
his associates, but for Rossi himself. Not only that, very high quality
and credible
Well, I did get an MA in psychology in 1967 -- decades ago, I read
about a Neuro Linguistic Programming gambit, to wit:
Jed, please, above all else, do not just jump swiftly to a completely
skeptical appraisal of Rossi's demos...
the strategy being to use supporting the partner in doing the
On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 11:41 PM, Rich Murray rmfor...@gmail.com wrote:
Well, I did get an MA in psychology in 1967 -- decades ago, I read
about a Neuro Linguistic Programming gambit, to wit:
Jed, please, above all else, do not just jump swiftly to a completely
skeptical appraisal of Rossi's
On Sep 16, 2011, at 6:42 PM, Jouni Valkonen wrote:
2011/9/17 Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net:
Hundreds of man days have been wasted. If the job were done right
the first
time a lot of labor and money could have been saved, not only for
Rossi and
his associates, but for Rossi
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