[Vo]:What the Breakup Means
Well since this breakup information finally comes from Rossi himself, the earlier press release was apparently not a forgery. At any rate, it would be easy to misinterpret what this E-Cat breakup means, but it clearly means that Rossi does not realize that DGT may know his all-important secret. They have said as much. It may also mean that Rossi has been had. For the benefit of those not conversant with US slang - this means that the breakup was based on an illusion, and was actually engineered by Defkalion in order to preserve funds for their own MW demonstration. After all, there is are 100,000,000 reasons why this breakup could hurt Rossi more than help him. And the converse is true for DGT. Or rather, to be accurate we should say - either Defkalion is a sham and completely dishonest- or else they have effectively reverse engineered his device; and thereafter they have concocted this breakup scheme - since AR adamantly claims that DGT have received NO devices, nor do they know the secret. Defkalion, OTOH claim to have a MW unit in testing now - probably in Cyprus. The Xanthi plant is most likely a red herring, or else it was specifically set up to obtain EEC 'ecology funds' which were not forthcoming. That is another story which is just now coming out. Apparently, there is no indication from visitors to the Xanthi site that there is anything going on in that location to indicate that production or a demonstration is planned. It was a complete diversion, apparently. Rossi may have known that there was nothing going on there and based his decision on this fact. This probably means that all of DGTs efforts, if they are really 'players' and not liars, are taking place at another site, most likely in Cyprus ... or else of course, that they are complete frauds. Rossi probably thinks that they are completely fraudulent, which could be the case, we simply do not know at this stage - but there is another way of looking at the dynamics of this situation. My preliminary hypothesis (based on too-little information) 1) Defkalion are basically clever opportunists who found Rossi at the right time and provided some initial funding. 2) They may have ties to the Russian government. 3) The reverse-engineering of E-Cat could have been done in Russia. IOW they got hold of at least one E-Cat unit (possibly by illegal means) and had it reversed engineered by a technology powerhouse, but Rossi does not know this. 4)They want to avoid any further payment to Rossi and conserve funds for their own product line 5) With their superior engineering support, they could have advanced the technology well beyond Rossi. 6) The clever part is that they set up a 'sting' to make it look like it is Rossi's call on the breakup, and that DGT will suffer in the end - when in fact, it was a well conceived deception from the start. 7) An almost perfect double scam ? This is not ruled out, since AR thinks they do not know the secret. Time will tell. Actually, as for predictions for the next few months, I am looking for TWO separate demos this fall - possibly one by Rossi in November (in the USA) - but possibly one by DGT earlier - perhaps in October, but most likely not in Xanthi. I hear that Nicosia is nice in the fall g Jones attachment: winmail.dat
Re: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
A simpler explanation DGT has stated that the E-cat is not catching energy-mice and got a better place/business to invest money? Also speculating. I have met Prof Stremmenos two times at Asti but we are not in so good relation, cannot phone him. Peter On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 5:18 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Well since this breakup information finally comes from Rossi himself, the earlier press release was apparently not a forgery. At any rate, it would be easy to misinterpret what this E-Cat breakup means, but it clearly means that Rossi does not realize that DGT may know his all-important secret. They have said as much. It may also mean that Rossi has been had. For the benefit of those not conversant with US slang - this means that the breakup was based on an illusion, and was actually engineered by Defkalion in order to preserve funds for their own MW demonstration. After all, there is are 100,000,000 reasons why this breakup could hurt Rossi more than help him. And the converse is true for DGT. Or rather, to be accurate we should say - either Defkalion is a sham and completely dishonest- or else they have effectively reverse engineered his device; and thereafter they have concocted this breakup scheme - since AR adamantly claims that DGT have received NO devices, nor do they know the secret. Defkalion, OTOH claim to have a MW unit in testing now - probably in Cyprus. The Xanthi plant is most likely a red herring, or else it was specifically set up to obtain EEC 'ecology funds' which were not forthcoming. That is another story which is just now coming out. Apparently, there is no indication from visitors to the Xanthi site that there is anything going on in that location to indicate that production or a demonstration is planned. It was a complete diversion, apparently. Rossi may have known that there was nothing going on there and based his decision on this fact. This probably means that all of DGTs efforts, if they are really 'players' and not liars, are taking place at another site, most likely in Cyprus ... or else of course, that they are complete frauds. Rossi probably thinks that they are completely fraudulent, which could be the case, we simply do not know at this stage - but there is another way of looking at the dynamics of this situation. My preliminary hypothesis (based on too-little information) 1) Defkalion are basically clever opportunists who found Rossi at the right time and provided some initial funding. 2) They may have ties to the Russian government. 3) The reverse-engineering of E-Cat could have been done in Russia. IOW they got hold of at least one E-Cat unit (possibly by illegal means) and had it reversed engineered by a technology powerhouse, but Rossi does not know this. 4)They want to avoid any further payment to Rossi and conserve funds for their own product line 5) With their superior engineering support, they could have advanced the technology well beyond Rossi. 6) The clever part is that they set up a 'sting' to make it look like it is Rossi's call on the breakup, and that DGT will suffer in the end - when in fact, it was a well conceived deception from the start. 7) An almost perfect double scam ? This is not ruled out, since AR thinks they do not know the secret. Time will tell. Actually, as for predictions for the next few months, I am looking for TWO separate demos this fall - possibly one by Rossi in November (in the USA) - but possibly one by DGT earlier - perhaps in October, but most likely not in Xanthi. I hear that Nicosia is nice in the fall g Jones -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
I see that Daniele Passerini has also posted the notice with no further comment. Well, the Sea of Women and following poetry could be some kind of subtle statement. T
Re: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
What if the opposite is true? What if Defkalion had advanced the technology beyond what Rossi had been able to achieve, and they really did not need Rossi any longer. Remember, Defkalion claimed that the Greek govt were going to do performance and safety certification testing of their products the first ten days of July. What if they have products ready to ship and install, but are waiting on Rossi to get his one megawatt plant up and running? Perhaps Rossi saw how far they had advanced the technology, and got spooked. We don't know the whole story. We don't know what is true at this point. From: Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, August 7, 2011 10:18 AM Subject: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means Well since this breakup information finally comes from Rossi himself, the earlier press release was apparently not a forgery. At any rate, it would be easy to misinterpret what this E-Cat breakup means, but it clearly means that Rossi does not realize that DGT may know his all-important secret. They have said as much. It may also mean that Rossi has been had. For the benefit of those not conversant with US slang - this means that the breakup was based on an illusion, and was actually engineered by Defkalion in order to preserve funds for their own MW demonstration. After all, there is are 100,000,000 reasons why this breakup could hurt Rossi more than help him. And the converse is true for DGT. Or rather, to be accurate we should say - either Defkalion is a sham and completely dishonest- or else they have effectively reverse engineered his device; and thereafter they have concocted this breakup scheme - since AR adamantly claims that DGT have received NO devices, nor do they know the secret. Defkalion, OTOH claim to have a MW unit in testing now - probably in Cyprus. The Xanthi plant is most likely a red herring, or else it was specifically set up to obtain EEC 'ecology funds' which were not forthcoming. That is another story which is just now coming out. Apparently, there is no indication from visitors to the Xanthi site that there is anything going on in that location to indicate that production or a demonstration is planned. It was a complete diversion, apparently. Rossi may have known that there was nothing going on there and based his decision on this fact. This probably means that all of DGTs efforts, if they are really 'players' and not liars, are taking place at another site, most likely in Cyprus ... or else of course, that they are complete frauds. Rossi probably thinks that they are completely fraudulent, which could be the case, we simply do not know at this stage - but there is another way of looking at the dynamics of this situation. My preliminary hypothesis (based on too-little information) 1) Defkalion are basically clever opportunists who found Rossi at the right time and provided some initial funding. 2) They may have ties to the Russian government. 3) The reverse-engineering of E-Cat could have been done in Russia. IOW they got hold of at least one E-Cat unit (possibly by illegal means) and had it reversed engineered by a technology powerhouse, but Rossi does not know this. 4)They want to avoid any further payment to Rossi and conserve funds for their own product line 5) With their superior engineering support, they could have advanced the technology well beyond Rossi. 6) The clever part is that they set up a 'sting' to make it look like it is Rossi's call on the breakup, and that DGT will suffer in the end - when in fact, it was a well conceived deception from the start. 7) An almost perfect double scam ? This is not ruled out, since AR thinks they do not know the secret. Time will tell. Actually, as for predictions for the next few months, I am looking for TWO separate demos this fall - possibly one by Rossi in November (in the USA) - but possibly one by DGT earlier - perhaps in October, but most likely not in Xanthi. I hear that Nicosia is nice in the fall g Jones
Re: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 10:18 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: I hear that Nicosia is nice in the fall g Did you know that Cyprus was once owned by the Templars? T
Re: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
They are lots of comments- some in English, make a search for the and you get them. Rossi has told to Passerini that the Greeks have not paid, tht's the reason of the divorce. But why have they not paid? The contract with the Bologna U. continues OK (says Rossi) Daniele has also asked Stremmenos not answer yet. Rossi emphasizes collaboration with highest level US scientist. Story a bit surrealistic. Peter On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 5:49 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: I see that Daniele Passerini has also posted the notice with no further comment. Well, the Sea of Women and following poetry could be some kind of subtle statement. T -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
RE: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
...err ... speaking of holy grails ? -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton I hear that Nicosia is nice in the fall g Did you know that Cyprus was once owned by the Templars?
Re: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
see Ecatnews.com comments re divorce peter On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 6:03 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 10:18 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: I hear that Nicosia is nice in the fall g Did you know that Cyprus was once owned by the Templars? T -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
RE: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
UPDATE: I have been alerted that the likeliest location of Hyperion development in Cyprus is not Nicosia but Limassol, which also looks very inviting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limassol,_Cyprus ...err ... speaking of holy grails ? I hear that Nicosia is nice in the fall g Did you know that Cyprus was once owned by the Templars?
Re: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 11:30 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: UPDATE: I have been alerted that the likeliest location of Hyperion development in Cyprus is not Nicosia but Limassol, which also looks very inviting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limassol,_Cyprus Well, well, well! That explains this response regarding the facilities and atmosphere at Defkalion (which could not have been Athens nor Xanthi): Defkalion GT Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:50 pm Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:56 pm Posts: 144 HQ: Excellent location, beach in 2min walking distance, some of our business or technical meetings we do there... They do not allow us yet to perform explosions of Hyperions at the beach (according to some people believes, we must have something very explosive in our hands). Maybe we will try some booms by the end of the swimming period, we will keep you posted on the results. About our people: Every one comes and (sometimes) leaves office with a smile (all the times). Labs: Same atmoshere, different locations. Our people there could not destroyed any of our labs. Incompetence ... Thank you for your question. Every one leaves the office with a smile. No doubt! T
RE: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
Well, well, well indeed! As the evidence adds up, it is looking more and more like this impulsive move by AR - to sever the relationship with DGT - was not such a smart move. Did he let his ego get ahead of cool-headed self-restraint? Seriously, did he not essentially cancel a contract that could have been worth millions in damages in the World Court (eventually)? That is assuming that DGT really have advanced ahead of him technologically - and can manage to beat him to a MW demonstration. Even if they have no money presently to meet a deadline which had been agreed to months ago (as reported), the fact remains that if they somehow got hold of the industrial secret which they claim to have already, and were able to advance the technology beyond that, then the company (DGT) and the lawsuit would be worth billions in a few years with damages included. The last thing you want to do as an inventor in this kind of case is to let them off the hook by unilaterally cancelling the contract. Sure the contract might not be worth anything for a few years, and even then you would have to go to court, but still Swallow your pride, man! How do you turn your back on $100,000,000 (or more) simply on ego-driven impulse? Jones -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton I have been alerted that the likeliest location of Hyperion development in Cyprus is not Nicosia but Limassol, which also looks very inviting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limassol,_Cyprus Well, well, well! That explains this response regarding the facilities and atmosphere at Defkalion (which could not have been Athens nor Xanthi): Defkalion GT Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:50 pm Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:56 pm Posts: 144 HQ: Excellent location, beach in 2min walking distance, some of our business or technical meetings we do there... They do not allow us yet to perform explosions of Hyperions at the beach (according to some people believes, we must have something very explosive in our hands). Maybe we will try some booms by the end of the swimming period, we will keep you posted on the results. About our people: Every one comes and (sometimes) leaves office with a smile (all the times). Labs: Same atmoshere, different locations. Our people there could not destroyed any of our labs. Incompetence ... Thank you for your question. Every one leaves the office with a smile. No doubt! T
Re: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
At 10:52 AM 8/7/2011, noone noone wrote: Perhaps Rossi saw how far they had advanced the technology, and got spooked. We don't know the whole story. We don't know what is true at this point. Before there is any sign that Defkalion is making a move, Rossi announces that he's terminating the contract. Then he talks about his attorney's being active. At what? Speculation: at suing Defkalion for stealing the technology. Speculation: indeed, with a lot of money, trivial to break in to Rossi's facilities and take an E-cat, examine it thoroughly, and return it undetected. All it takes is money to hire the talent that knows very well how to do that. Could be Russia, indeed. I'd considered Rossi's strategy, relying upon industrial secret, to be hopeless from the beginning, and I said so. He has effectively invalidated his own patent by not disclosing a necessary element, the catalyst. Rossi's eccentricity may well have demolished his fortunes. Lots of people, believing him, advised him differently, but he chose to ignore all that. Time will tell.
Re: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
At 11:16 AM 8/7/2011, Peter Gluck wrote: They are lots of comments- some in English, make a search for the and you get them. Rossi has told to Passerini that the Greeks have not paid, tht's the reason of the divorce. But why have they not paid? Again and again Rossi emphasized that he didn't get paid until he delivered. But it's possible that there was a requirement that the funds be placed in escrow, so it's still possible he's telling the truth. However, what this could mean is not incapacity, but an unwillingness to tie up a huge amount of money on what was looking like fraudulent exaggeration. For less money, they could do their own research. What if Defkalion hired real experts, including experts in steam engineering, and people skilled in recognizing fraud, to review the same evidence that we have all seen and discussed? What if they developed thorough reports covering all this, definitive, so that they really had a solid understanding of the situation and the possibilities. In other words, what if they behaved like prudent investors with the resources to be thorougly prudent? Beyond that, what if they used black ops? Governments do it. They might have had, indeed, the cooperation of the Greek government. If you had the connections they apparently had, would you do this? Remember, the national security of Greece was possibly at stake. Rossi shot himself in the foot, it seems.
Re: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
2011/8/7 Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net: Even if they have no money presently to meet a deadline which had been agreed to months ago (as reported), the fact remains that if they somehow got hold of the industrial secret which they claim to have already, and were able to advance the technology beyond that, then the company (DGT) and the lawsuit would be worth billions in a few years with damages included. I think that here is misunderstanding. Defkalion said on their web page that they have legal rights for industrial secrets. This certainly does not mean that they do possess such secrets and even less that they do not possess the knowledge, because they failed to pay Rossi as was agreed. Failure to make the payment is more than enough reason for Rossi to cancel the agreement and all the rights. For me the difference between Rossi's chattering and DGT's chattering is quite good evidence that Defkalion was phony company in the first place. And I somehow felt all the way that I did not trust Defkalion. That Greek head person of DGT on video just sounded too suspicious. And here I assure you that this is 100% wisdom after the event! I just hope that Rossi is coming into his senses that he releases the technology to the public immediately. It still costs for the global economy about one gigaeuro per hour while Rossi is delaying the publication of his technology. - Jouni
Re: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
From http://ecatnews.com/ re the Defkalion forum: When live, the forum was a key source of (what should have been) quality information. From it, we were told that Defkalion has tested the eCat many times, always achieving a gain of 19 or more. As we can see below, either they were lying or the press release on AR's blog is giving incorrect information. Either way, this looks bad [] It's not necessarily true that Defkalion was lying or that Rossi's information was incorrect. Rossi was stating what he believed, we may initially assume. He believed that they were not testing, since he hadn't provided them with E-cats. Ecatnews.com notes that this is all disturbing. It sure is. Rossi used and allowed the Defkalion situation as a proof that what he was doing was legitimate. If it's true that he provided no E-cats, then he would think one of two things: they were lying, or they had developed something new, which they don't call an E-cat, they call it Hyperion. Either way, Rossi used the impressions created by Defkalion to amplify his own credibility. Just yesterday, there was a comment here that Rossi must have disclosed the catalyst to Defkalion because otherwise they would not have invested hundreds of millions of dollars, I think was written. Rossi, from his announcement, never trusted them with the catalyst. Therefore, if they did discover the catalyst, they did not obtain it from disclosure, and he's going to have a devil of a time trying to prove that they stole the process. Unless he could prove industrial espionage, and his own comment denies that the secret isn't safe. Rossi's bluster and his habits of rejecting good advice from people who not only believed him but who knew what they were talking about seem to have resulted in his falling into a huge trap, of his own making. If Defkalion's statements are true, it's over for Rossi, he massively blew it. He might recover, but it's far from likely. This was not only a possibility from the beginning, it was actually likely. Rossi was in over his head, playing a game in a field with vast fortunes at stake. And effectively playing it alone. Predictable outcome. Rossi was tempted into fraud, into exaggeration of his results and into manipulating them in various ways, to make the devices seem more productive and more reliable. If Defkalion has actually done what is reported above, they are way ahead of him. As would be expected if someone with huge resources set to work on the problem. Rossi took many years to test his claimed thousand tries. They might have done that in a month! You just throw money and people at it! Once you believe that something might be there, and if you have the resources, it would practically be foolish not to look. And that is without industrial espionage. With it just absolutely not surprising. Expect from Defkalion: a patent, disclosing the catalyst. Very soon, delay could be quite harmful to their interests.
Re: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
On 2011-08-07 16:18, Jones Beene wrote: Well since this breakup information finally comes from Rossi himself, the earlier press release was apparently not a forgery. At any rate, it would be easy to misinterpret what this E-Cat breakup means, but it clearly means that Rossi does not realize that DGT may know his all-important secret. They have said as much. It may also mean that Rossi has been had. I found this very interesting comment by Daniele Passerini on his 22passi blog in the comment section of his latest post, which could partially explain what's going on. I Google-translated the parts in Italian: * * * Source short URL: http://goo.gl/osVkR This is the text of an anonymous email (and as such I have so far declined to publish it) that dates back to early July and I had a roundabout way. I think she trusted, even if they do not know the source. From them it appears: 1) that the Defkalion is in line to the development of Ni-H technology than previously stated; 2) that proceed in the development of reactors regardless Rossi long ago. After this email, I had pre-warned ... a series of reports from disparate sources, which confirm each other, I was led to predict a dramatic outcome of the report by August Defkalion Rossi. I was also told that Rossi had to have found a new partner in the U.S., much better than greek. And today, by surprise, it's little 'bit of the announcement that we have read. Here's the email in early July of the above: Defkalion has delivered several prototype reactors to the Greek Min. of Environment and Energy. The Ministry is preparing to license the equipment for use in the EU. They have done extensive testing of the performance and also to check for nuclear safety. This is a 4-part test regime costing millions of dollars. The first and most difficult phase was successful completed a couple of weeks ago. The other 3 parts should be finished at the end of the year. They will have to be completed or the machines cannot be licensed or sold. All of the government test procedures and results will have to be made public as part of the licensing procedure, and will be published by Defkalion as soon as the Ministry gives permission. Documents describing the test regime are available in Greek. I am trying to get them translated. These tests are thorough. The Greek government is dysfunctional and in deep trouble, but the engineers and scientists in their nuclear agencies are as professional and competent as the colleagues elsewhere in the EU or the U.S. There is no chance they have done months of testing and somehow they were fooled or bamboozled into thinking the machines are inputting 450 W and outputting 20 to 30 kW. That is out of the question. Defkalion has reactors ranging from kilowatt to megawatt ranges. All have been tested. The tests being performed by Rossi, Levi and the others in Italy have nothing to do with Defkalion. The people at Defkalion know less about Rossi's tests than I do. Their equipment, and the equipment at the Greek testing agencies, is the best that money can buy, and far better than anything Rossi uses. Their reactors are also far better than his. They licensed the technology from him years ago, and improved it beyond recognition. They have dozens of experts and hundreds of millions of dollars, and a board of directors that would be suitable for any Fortune 500 company, with extensive experience in industry. At this point I would say that there is a trade war (and perhaps more) in progress: only look for some cargo choppy waves on the sea surface and submarine fleets do not see many nationalities who are opposed to the depths unseen. This is why I repeat and I never tire of repeating to those who still are not convinced that we are dealing with new technologies, new energy sources, new physical principles with applications beyond our imagination, which only makes the mistake of not put together all the pieces of the puzzle ... or is in connection with those who fly under water, but this is a borderline case! ;) Cheers, S.A
Re: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
On 11-08-07 01:32 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: Rossi, from his announcement, never trusted them with the catalyst. Therefore, if they did discover the catalyst, they did not obtain it from disclosure, and he's going to have a devil of a time trying to prove that they stole the process. What makes you think there is a catalyst? All we have is Rossi's word for it. The alleged catalyst has provided a very convenient means for preventing anyone else from event attempting a real replication. As such, it's been a powerful tool for Rossi ... whether it actually exists or not.
Re: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
On 11-08-07 01:08 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: At 10:52 AM 8/7/2011, noone noone wrote: Perhaps Rossi saw how far they had advanced the technology, and got spooked. We don't know the whole story. We don't know what is true at this point. Before there is any sign that Defkalion is making a move, Rossi announces that he's terminating the contract. Then he talks about his attorney's being active. At what? Among all the things which have gone by, the activity by Rossi's attorneys is by far the *least* suspicious. In my (admittedly limited) experience, the first thing which happens when a contract is broken is the terminating party files suit to show that the other party violated the contract's terms. They do this in order to get out of the contract without triggering whatever draconian penalty clauses may exist, and in the hope of recouping losses associated with the debacle. The second thing which happens is that the other party files a counter suit, alleging that the first party violated the terms of the contract themselves, and they violated them earlier and in more egregious ways than the second party did. If the contract had been terminated without a lawsuit, well, *that* would have been suspicious!
RE: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
At 12:38 PM 8/7/2011, Jones Beene wrote: How do you turn your back on $100,000,000 (or more) simply on ego-driven impulse? 1. People do this. Rossi had a grandiose perception of himself and his abilities. From what he's stated in the past, he expects to prevail against all obstacles, no matter how great. 2. The contract probably provides for cancellation procedure. Rossi may not have yet provided the required notice, so his press release means nothing. If he's provided the required notice, expect Defkalion to say, Thanks. Sorry this didn't work out for you. Good luck. As they eat his lunch. (I'm currently assuming that Defkalion has not been lying about demonstrating Hyperions. They could have been, it's not impossible. I must point out again that, so far, there is no reason to believe that any of their announcements are legally required to be true.)
RE: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
From Abd, ... Expect from Defkalion: a patent, disclosing the catalyst. Very soon, delay could be quite harmful to their interests. And obviously from Rossi's POV, disclosure of the catalyst during what is assumed will be an interesting legal battle would be the last thing he would want revealed to the world. Once the cat is out of the bag (no pun intended), what other cards would Rossi have left to play. Regards, Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
RE: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
These are very interesting developments indeed... And not unexpected. As Einstein said, Without morality in out actions, there is no salvation for mankind. It's hard enough finding business people who have a high level of integrity when times are good, but given the dismal state of affairs in the world today, especially in Greece, Russia and many other countries, people are desperate, and desperate people do desperate (or devious) things. I think Jones' speculation that it was Defkalion's intention from the very beginning to play Rossi until they had what they needed from him, is the most likely scenario here. Pretty rotten and despicable behavior, but not at all a surprise... There are cultures in the world that have no problem whatsoever of lying and misleading the other party in a business deal... Their attitude is if you are too stupid or naïve or idealistic in your business dealings, that's your problem... And they will exploit you as much as you are willing to put up with. Rossi had very good reason to be secretive... -Mark
Re: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 1:50 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: What makes you think there is a catalyst? All we have is Rossi's word for it. The alleged catalyst has provided a very convenient means for preventing anyone else from event attempting a real replication. As such, it's been a powerful tool for Rossi ... whether it actually exists or not. Peter has been saying this all along. I agree that the catalyst is a red herring. I think that the geometry and cleansing of the nickel is key to the reaction. T
RE: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
Reading the announcement on Rossi's blog it seems that he wants to underline the fact that he did not pass any secret (voluntarily) to DGT. So to say that he want to go on the industrial espionage road for the legal battle. Probably he feels his shoulders backed by the US partners. mic Il giorno 07/ago/2011 20:07, Mark Iverson zeropo...@charter.net ha scritto: These are very interesting developments indeed... And not unexpected. As Einstein said, Without morality in out actions, there is no salvation for mankind. It's hard enough finding business people who have a high level of integrity when times are good, but given the dismal state of affairs in the world today, especially in Greece, Russia and many other countries, people are desperate, and desperate people do desperate (or devious) things. I think Jones' speculation that it was Defkalion's intention from the very beginning to play Rossi until they had what they needed from him, is the most likely scenario here. Pretty rotten and despicable behavior, but not at all a surprise... There are cultures in the world that have no problem whatsoever of lying and misleading the other party in a business deal... Their attitude is if you are too stupid or naïve or idealistic in your business dealings, that's your problem... And they will exploit you as much as you are willing to put up with. Rossi had very good reason to be secretive... -Mark
Re: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
What makes you think there is a catalyst? That was my thought too... That even without a catalyst or loading of hydrogen into the nickel, a few degrees of excess heat could be gotten with a low-cost replication attempt. I tried and got no results at 20bars of hydrogen and 250C heat. I also used activated charcoal and other methods to increase the exposed nickel surface area. So.. there is at least some trick to get a reaction. On the other hand, maybe the catalyst is one of the many previously guessed at and is known by Defkalion. People, if you have the means to attempt replication, please join the fun... - Brad Lowe
Re: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
On 2011-08-07 20:56, ecat builder wrote: with a low-cost replication attempt. I tried and got no results at 20bars of hydrogen and 250C heat. I also used activated charcoal and other methods to increase the exposed nickel surface area. So.. there is at least some trick to get a reaction. On the other hand, maybe the catalyst is one of the many previously guessed at and is known by Defkalion. People, if you have the means to attempt replication, please join the fun... Ecat builder, have you ever tried reading Piantelli's 2010 patent for potential tips on replication? It's quite detailed. There aren't catalysts involved, but here reactions are supposedly triggered by impulses. This very thing could be the catalyst in Rossi's case. http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/PiantelliSmethodforp.pdf Cheers, S.A.
Re: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
Quite impressive for a company we were told was thrown together hastily this spring. Sent from my iPhone. On Aug 7, 2011, at 13:39, Akira Shirakawa shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com wrote: They have dozens of experts and hundreds of millions of dollars, and a board of directors that would be suitable for any Fortune 500 company, with extensive experience in industry.
Re: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
Ecat builder, have you ever tried reading Piantelli's 2010 patent for Thanks S.A., yes, that is a nice reference. If I had more time and a real lab capable of 10^-9 bar and 500C I would try... Was hoping a little transmutation could be achieved without impulses and pre-loading. If anyone knows of replications of the Piantelli patent, let me know. - Brad
RE: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
Brain Ahern's results are strong evidence that anomalous thermal gain is possible with nano nickel. From there on, it is a struggle to increase the gain. IOW - the HUGE step is to get to rock-solid COP1. This is a done deal. From there on it's a matter of engineering. In Brian's results the trigger temperature at 20 bar would be ~350C. He is getting only 15 watts of excess - compared to Rossi's much higher gain. Ecat builder did not get high enough on the trigger temp and that will guarantee a null result. The reason probably related to the Curie temperature of nickel. Of course, Rossi says he can do it at lower temp and that would be due to the catalyst. Personally, I think there is definitely a catalyst - and I think we know what it is. It is a Mills catalyst are there are several prominent papers on it from the time period of 2002-2004. Tests are underway to confirm this. If it proves out - thanks will go to Ron Wormus (by way of Randell Mills) for the tip. Don't worry, it will be disclosed, but there is no reason to do so till there is confirmation. Look how many false leads are out there now. Jones -Original Message- From: Akira Shirakawa ecat builder wrote: with a low-cost replication attempt. I tried and got no results at 20bars of hydrogen and 250C heat. I also used activated charcoal and other methods to increase the exposed nickel surface area. So.. there is at least some trick to get a reaction. On the other hand, maybe the catalyst is one of the many previously guessed at and is known by Defkalion. People, if you have the means to attempt replication, please join the fun... Ecat builder, have you ever tried reading Piantelli's 2010 patent for potential tips on replication? It's quite detailed. There aren't catalysts involved, but here reactions are supposedly triggered by impulses. This very thing could be the catalyst in Rossi's case. http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/PiantelliSmethodforp.pdf Cheers, S.A.
RE: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means : more Rossi posts
Rossi's been making frequent posts -- one of his latest: Andrea Rossi August 7th, 2011 at 2:22 PM Dear Georgehants: Prof. Stremmenos has tested our E-Cats many times in Bologna and has made a very good work; I do not know what has been done in Greece from Deflalion with the documents made by Prof. Stremmenos; also other officers of defkalion made tests in Bologna, for this purpose. The work has been good, as well as has been good the work that Defkalion made to get authorizations, I suppose, even if it has never been my business; the problems which caused the cancellation of the contract are just financial. By the way, the report of the last test made by the Greek Scientist Christos Stremmenos has been published, the work has been very good, and my personal relationship with Prof. Stremmenos is good. We hope in future to make again a good work in Greece. When a verdict will be issued regarding the suit in course between Defkalion and us will be published all will be clear. Now I prefer not to enter in particulars, but, again, the issue is just financial, not personal, nor technological, nor scientific. Warm Regards, A.R. Andrea Rossi August 7th, 2011 at 2:31 PM Dear Luca T: I was in the States until 2 days ago, I will return there very soon; we will communicate the start location the day before the start itself. Warmest Regards, A.R. Also : Q: Also, what about licensing and regulations in the U.S? Because we all know its coming. You require a license to do just about anything other than breathe in the U.S., and I think theyll license that too soon A: Our USA Customer is taking care of this issue,
Re: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
fasten your seat belts... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XypVcv77WBU Harry
Re: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
Piantelli, Rossi, Defkalion, big US investor... copious hot air... never any facts... so it's all electric heaters in drag... we're all getting old since 1989, gawking at this circus parade. In mutual service, Rich Murray
Re: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
At 01:50 PM 8/7/2011, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: On 11-08-07 01:32 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: Rossi, from his announcement, never trusted them with the catalyst. Therefore, if they did discover the catalyst, they did not obtain it from disclosure, and he's going to have a devil of a time trying to prove that they stole the process. What makes you think there is a catalyst? I don't. However, lots of people have worked with Ni-H, without such striking results as was claimed. If there are improved results -- that's if -- then there is probably something being done that hasn't been disclosed. All we have is Rossi's word for it. That's right. The alleged catalyst has provided a very convenient means for preventing anyone else from event attempting a real replication. As such, it's been a powerful tool for Rossi ... whether it actually exists or not. It's a completely feeble excuse. There was no open and sane reason to disallow black box tests.
Re: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
At 01:56 PM 8/7/2011, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: On 11-08-07 01:08 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: At 10:52 AM 8/7/2011, noone noone wrote: Perhaps Rossi saw how far they had advanced the technology, and got spooked. We don't know the whole story. We don't know what is true at this point. Before there is any sign that Defkalion is making a move, Rossi announces that he's terminating the contract. Then he talks about his attorney's being active. At what? Among all the things which have gone by, the activity by Rossi's attorneys is by far the *least* suspicious. In my (admittedly limited) experience, the first thing which happens when a contract is broken is the terminating party files suit to show that the other party violated the contract's terms. They do this in order to get out of the contract without triggering whatever draconian penalty clauses may exist, and in the hope of recouping losses associated with the debacle. The second thing which happens is that the other party files a counter suit, alleging that the first party violated the terms of the contract themselves, and they violated them earlier and in more egregious ways than the second party did. If the contract had been terminated without a lawsuit, well, *that* would have been suspicious! But we don't know that the contract has actually been terminated. We don't know who violated the contract, we don't know the terms. For legal action to start immediately is, indeed, suspicious. However, sure, Rossi could be preparing for legal action. Especially if Defkalion actually acted in a way that violated the contract. However, in that case, a more normal suit would be for specific performance. Termination usually ends the matter. And then there could be a suit for wrongful termination, which would come from the other side, I'd have thought. Unless they wanted the contract terminated.
Re: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means
fromWordPress no-re...@wordpress.com to rmfor...@gmail.com dateSun, Aug 7, 2011 at 10:34 AM subject [New post] Rossi's Scientific Failure in Seven Steps 10:34 AM (4 hours ago) Rossi's Scientific Failure in Seven Steps Steven B. Krivit | August 7, 2011 at 17:34 | Categories: Uncategorized | URL: http://wp.me/pV5rZ-f0 Andrea Rossi is the creator of a device he calls the Energy Catalyzer, or E-Cat. Together with Sergio Focardi, professor emeritus at the University of Bologna, and Giuseppe Levi, a professor in the university’s Department of Physics, the trio claimed a low-energy nuclear reaction device that produced extraordinarily large amounts of excess heat. In fact, Rossi had promoted the idea as a soon-to-be-available commercial device. The complete list of New Energy Times reports on this topic is here. The Rossi group's primary energy claim was based on vaporization of virtually all inlet water into steam. The group had two choices to validate its claim. Option 1 was to verify that liquid water did not flow out of the device and down the drain. The group made no such measurements. The characteristics of steam output observed in the June 14, 2011, and April 28, 2011, experiments are consistent with substantial amounts of unvaporized inlet water present in the output steam. Option 2, which the group attempted, was to measure steam quality. However, it used a device that, according to the manufacturer, was not designed or suitable for the task. That device was designed to measure only humidity of air. Thus, the group had no accurate measurements of the amount or quality of steam produced and therefore no experimental evidence on which to base its extraordinary energy claim. The group ran one experiment below the boiling point of water; however, it did not make and does not intend to release a report on the results of that test. Seven Steps 1. Rossi Group's Extraordinary Claim About Energy Production The primary claim was based on virtually 100 percent vaporization of inlet water into steam. 2. Video Recordings of Steam Production The characteristics of steam output observed in the June 14, 2011, and April 28, 2011, experiments are consistent with substantial amounts of unvaporized inlet water present in the output steam. 3. Presence of Unvaporized Water in Device Output -Water can leave as liquid by overflowing through the outlet hose. -Water can leave as tiny droplets, thus lowering steam quality. 4. Measurement of Unvaporized Water in Device Output No measurements were performed to verify that unvaporized water did not flow out of the device, through the hose, and down the drain. 5. Claims of Steam Quality Measurements The Rossi group claimed to have accurately measured steam quality. The chemist it used to perform these measurements did not use a detector that was designed for or capable of measuring steam quality. 6. Device Used to Attempt Steam Quality Measurement - Question to manufacturer: What is the capability of this device to measure steam quality? - Response from manufacturer: “None. It is not suited for steam quality measurement.” 7. Conclusion Without Sufficient Experimental Facts Because the group used an unsuitable device to measure steam quality, it had no quantitative facts about the amount or quality of steam. As a result, the group could not know the amount of energy production within an order of magnitude. As with any scientific claim, the burden to provide convincing evidence rests with the claimant. In mutual service, Rich Murray
Re: [Vo]:What the Breakup Means : more Rossi posts
Alan: Thanks for keeping an eye on Rossi's blog for us. That is helpful. - Jed
