Re: [Vo]:OT: Vertical farming

[a.ashfield]

Bob,
I didn't miss your point.  What Sardi said was that adding copper to a 
vitamin pill was not the answer.  I happen to have too much copper in my 
water even though the house is 27 years old, as I can tell from the 
blue/green stain left if the water drips.
Some, probably many, of the needs of the body for trace elements are 
poorly understood.  It is not a subject that gets much study and one 
reads that most published papers in medicine are not reproducible. I'm 
not an expert in the field, but as I said, think Sardi probably is.  If 
you know of a better one (or a better product) please let me know.  I 
have seen studies that claim there is no advantage for the average 
person to take a multi-vitamin pill.


AA

On 3/18/2017 8:08 PM, Bob Higgins wrote:
I think you might have missed my point.  The body dumps excess 
minerals and vitamins out of your body through urination.  The body 
cannot separate zinc and copper in its task of dumping an excess.  So, 
if you have a normal amount of copper and supplement with zinc, the 
body will dump the excess zinc and will take copper with it.  Since  
you started with the correct amount of copper, by dumping copper 
(along with the zinc excess) you become copper deficient.  This also 
works the same way with sodium and potassium.  Take in too much sodium 
and the body's dumping of excess sodium can make you potassium 
deficient.  All of these "companion" minerals should be taken in balance.


Copper pipes passivate themselves pretty quickly with ordinary water, 
and the water that comes out of your tap will not contain much after 
the first year... Unless you have softened water. Soft water really 
wants to grab mineral salts and put them back into the water.  So, the 
combination of softened water and copper pipes will lead to a lot of 
copper in the water.  I have softened water, but it is flowing through 
plastic pipes.


On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 4:43 PM, a.ashfield > wrote:


Bob,
The Molecular Multi does contain Zinc.   I believe Dr. Sardi has
done his homework, although I suppose there are other opinions.  
Sardi writes this about copper.


Copper

NOT PROVIDED IN THE MOLECULAR MULTI

Copper is a strong oxidant. It is required for connective tissue
(collagen) formation.

The installation of copper in place of lead plumbing and piping
has changed the whole approach to copper nutrition. Inorganically
bound copper in dietary supplements and drinking water it much
more damaging to the brain than bound copper in foods. The
Alzheimer’s epidemic coincides with installation of copper
plumbing in developed but not undeveloped countries. [Nutrients
 2015; Journal Trace
Element Research  2012]

AA

On 3/18/2017 1:51 PM, Bob Higgins wrote:

So, will the suppliers of the vegetables grown in this manner
supply a pill in the package for the missing nutrients in their
prodcuts?

It is not as easy as it sounds to find an acceptable supplement. 
The Formula Inc "Molecular Multi" is far from complete. Where are

the calcium, copper, and vanadium?  The body's regulatory system
dumps excess zinc and copper together (without discrimination). 
If copper and zinc are not taken simultaneously, dumping the

excess zinc will cause a copper deficiency.  Vanadium in trace
amounts helps prevent (and treat) adult onset diabetes. The
"Molecular Multi" may not even be "better than nothing".

So why aren't we in more trouble today with the lack of the
nutrients in farm produced vegetables?  Because meats are rich in
many of those nutrients and most of us eat meat. Despite the fact
that I hate the thought of eating animals, I recognize that with
today's marketplace foods, I would become malnourished by not
eating meat.  Eating veal is even more nutrient rich because
nutrient absorption by the young animals is far higher than older
animals.

Re: [Vo]:OT: Vertical farming

[Bob Higgins]

I think you might have missed my point.  The body dumps excess minerals and
vitamins out of your body through urination.  The body cannot separate zinc
and copper in its task of dumping an excess.  So, if you have a normal
amount of copper and supplement with zinc, the body will dump the excess
zinc and will take copper with it.  Since  you started with the correct
amount of copper, by dumping copper (along with the zinc excess) you become
copper deficient.  This also works the same way with sodium and potassium.
Take in too much sodium and the body's dumping of excess sodium can make
you potassium deficient.  All of these "companion" minerals should be taken
in balance.

Copper pipes passivate themselves pretty quickly with ordinary water, and
the water that comes out of your tap will not contain much after the first
year... Unless you have softened water.  Soft water really wants to grab
mineral salts and put them back into the water.  So, the combination of
softened water and copper pipes will lead to a lot of copper in the water.
I have softened water, but it is flowing through plastic pipes.

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 4:43 PM, a.ashfield  wrote:

> Bob,
> The Molecular Multi does contain Zinc.   I believe Dr. Sardi has done his
> homework, although I suppose there are other opinions.   Sardi writes this
> about copper.
>
> Copper
>
> NOT PROVIDED IN THE MOLECULAR MULTI
>
> Copper is a strong oxidant. It is required for connective tissue
> (collagen) formation.
>
> The installation of copper in place of lead plumbing and piping has
> changed the whole approach to copper nutrition. Inorganically bound copper
> in dietary supplements and drinking water it much more damaging to the
> brain than bound copper in foods. The Alzheimer’s epidemic coincides with
> installation of copper plumbing in developed but not undeveloped countries.
> [Nutrients  2015; Journal
> Trace Element Research  2012]
> AA
>
> On 3/18/2017 1:51 PM, Bob Higgins wrote:
>
> So, will the suppliers of the vegetables grown in this manner supply a
> pill in the package for the missing nutrients in their prodcuts?
>
> It is not as easy as it sounds to find an acceptable supplement.  The
> Formula Inc "Molecular Multi" is far from complete.  Where are the calcium,
> copper, and vanadium?  The body's regulatory system dumps excess zinc and
> copper together (without discrimination).  If copper and zinc are not taken
> simultaneously, dumping the excess zinc will cause a copper deficiency.
> Vanadium in trace amounts helps prevent (and treat) adult onset diabetes.
> The "Molecular Multi" may not even be "better than nothing".
>
> So why aren't we in more trouble today with the lack of the nutrients in
> farm produced vegetables?  Because meats are rich in many of those
> nutrients and most of us eat meat.  Despite the fact that I hate the
> thought of eating animals, I recognize that with today's marketplace foods,
> I would become malnourished by not eating meat.  Eating veal is even more
> nutrient rich because nutrient absorption by the young animals is far
> higher than older animals.
>
>

Re: [Vo]:OT: Vertical farming

[a.ashfield]

Bob,
The Molecular Multi does contain Zinc.   I believe Dr. Sardi has done 
his homework, although I suppose there are other opinions. Sardi writes 
this about copper.


Copper

NOT PROVIDED IN THE MOLECULAR MULTI

Copper is a strong oxidant. It is required for connective tissue 
(collagen) formation.


The installation of copper in place of lead plumbing and piping has 
changed the whole approach to copper nutrition. Inorganically bound 
copper in dietary supplements and drinking water it much more damaging 
to the brain than bound copper in foods. The Alzheimer’s epidemic 
coincides with installation of copper plumbing in developed but not 
undeveloped countries. [Nutrients 
 2015; Journal Trace 
Element Research  2012]


AA

On 3/18/2017 1:51 PM, Bob Higgins wrote:
So, will the suppliers of the vegetables grown in this manner supply a 
pill in the package for the missing nutrients in their prodcuts?


It is not as easy as it sounds to find an acceptable supplement.  The 
Formula Inc "Molecular Multi" is far from complete.  Where are the 
calcium, copper, and vanadium?  The body's regulatory system dumps 
excess zinc and copper together (without discrimination).  If copper 
and zinc are not taken simultaneously, dumping the excess zinc will 
cause a copper deficiency.  Vanadium in trace amounts helps prevent 
(and treat) adult onset diabetes.  The "Molecular Multi" may not even 
be "better than nothing".


So why aren't we in more trouble today with the lack of the nutrients 
in farm produced vegetables?  Because meats are rich in many of those 
nutrients and most of us eat meat.  Despite the fact that I hate the 
thought of eating animals, I recognize that with today's marketplace 
foods, I would become malnourished by not eating meat.  Eating veal is 
even more nutrient rich because nutrient absorption by the young 
animals is far higher than older animals.


On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:13 AM, a.ashfield > wrote:


It's easy enough to take a good vitamin supplement like Fgrmulas
Inc's "Molecular Multi"

AA

On 3/18/2017 11:29 AM, H LV wrote:

Good questions.
Lets hope vertical farming is well studied before it becomes
common place or it could become another agricultural folly.

Harry

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:00 AM, Bob Higgins
> wrote:

One of the problems with agricultural vegetables today is
that they are devoid of the micronutrients that the human
body needs to be healthy.  These include a lot of trace
minerals (boron, calcium, vanadium, iodine, zinc, copper,
magnesium ...) that are found in fresh soil; but for 100
years, these micronutrients have been farmed out (and not
replaced). Farmers only add N-P-K back to the soil because
they found that doing so would make green plants, but that
doesn't mean that the resulting plants are chemically
nutritious for humans.  Historical farming was most
nutritious in flood plains because the flood silt would
restore the micronutrients to the soil.

Plants cannot absorb these micronutrients as oxides or
sulphates directly - they must be broken down by consumption
in bacteria within the soil and chemically converted to metal
chelates in the bacterial deficant before the plants can
absorb them.

So, how in a vertical farm are the core nutrients and
micronutrients supplied to the plant in a way that the plant
can absorb them?  Are they growing the bacteria in a vat from
which they extract the chelate-rich water (absorb-able
nutrients) for spraying on the plant roots?  Are the
resulting plants nutritious?

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 8:36 AM, H LV > wrote:

Vertical farming is slowly becoming more common.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_tvJtUHnmU


Harry

Re: [Vo]:OT: Vertical farming

[Bob Higgins]

So, will the suppliers of the vegetables grown in this manner supply a pill
in the package for the missing nutrients in their prodcuts?

It is not as easy as it sounds to find an acceptable supplement.  The
Formula Inc "Molecular Multi" is far from complete.  Where are the calcium,
copper, and vanadium?  The body's regulatory system dumps excess zinc and
copper together (without discrimination).  If copper and zinc are not taken
simultaneously, dumping the excess zinc will cause a copper deficiency.
Vanadium in trace amounts helps prevent (and treat) adult onset diabetes.
The "Molecular Multi" may not even be "better than nothing".

So why aren't we in more trouble today with the lack of the nutrients in
farm produced vegetables?  Because meats are rich in many of those
nutrients and most of us eat meat.  Despite the fact that I hate the
thought of eating animals, I recognize that with today's marketplace foods,
I would become malnourished by not eating meat.  Eating veal is even more
nutrient rich because nutrient absorption by the young animals is far
higher than older animals.

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:13 AM, a.ashfield  wrote:

> It's easy enough to take a good vitamin supplement like Fgrmulas Inc's
> "Molecular Multi"
>
> AA
>
> On 3/18/2017 11:29 AM, H LV wrote:
>
> Good questions.
> Lets hope vertical farming is well studied before it becomes common place
> or it could become another agricultural folly.
>
> Harry
>
> On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:00 AM, Bob Higgins 
> wrote:
>
>> One of the problems with agricultural vegetables today is that they are
>> devoid of the micronutrients that the human body needs to be healthy.
>> These include a lot of trace minerals (boron, calcium, vanadium, iodine,
>> zinc, copper, magnesium ...) that are found in fresh soil; but for 100
>> years, these micronutrients have been farmed out (and not replaced).
>> Farmers only add N-P-K back to the soil because they found that doing so
>> would make green plants, but that doesn't mean that the resulting plants
>> are chemically nutritious for humans.  Historical farming was most
>> nutritious in flood plains because the flood silt would restore the
>> micronutrients to the soil.
>>
>> Plants cannot absorb these micronutrients as oxides or sulphates directly
>> - they must be broken down by consumption in bacteria within the soil and
>> chemically converted to metal chelates in the bacterial deficant before the
>> plants can absorb them.
>>
>> So, how in a vertical farm are the core nutrients and micronutrients
>> supplied to the plant in a way that the plant can absorb them?  Are they
>> growing the bacteria in a vat from which they extract the chelate-rich
>> water (absorb-able nutrients) for spraying on the plant roots?  Are the
>> resulting plants nutritious?
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 8:36 AM, H LV  wrote:
>>
>>> Vertical farming is slowly becoming more common.
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_tvJtUHnmU
>>>
>>> Harry
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:OT: Vertical farming

[a.ashfield]

It's easy enough to take a good vitamin supplement like Fgrmulas Inc's 
"Molecular Multi"


AA


On 3/18/2017 11:29 AM, H LV wrote:

Good questions.
Lets hope vertical farming is well studied before it becomes common 
place or it could become another agricultural folly.


Harry

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:00 AM, Bob Higgins 
> wrote:


One of the problems with agricultural vegetables today is that
they are devoid of the micronutrients that the human body needs to
be healthy. These include a lot of trace minerals (boron, calcium,
vanadium, iodine, zinc, copper, magnesium ...) that are found in
fresh soil; but for 100 years, these micronutrients have been
farmed out (and not replaced). Farmers only add N-P-K back to the
soil because they found that doing so would make green plants, but
that doesn't mean that the resulting plants are chemically
nutritious for humans.  Historical farming was most nutritious in
flood plains because the flood silt would restore the
micronutrients to the soil.

Plants cannot absorb these micronutrients as oxides or sulphates
directly - they must be broken down by consumption in bacteria
within the soil and chemically converted to metal chelates in the
bacterial deficant before the plants can absorb them.

So, how in a vertical farm are the core nutrients and
micronutrients supplied to the plant in a way that the plant can
absorb them?  Are they growing the bacteria in a vat from which
they extract the chelate-rich water (absorb-able nutrients) for
spraying on the plant roots? Are the resulting plants nutritious?

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 8:36 AM, H LV > wrote:

Vertical farming is slowly becoming more common.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_tvJtUHnmU


Harry

Re: [Vo]:OT: Vertical farming

[H LV]

Good questions.
Lets hope vertical farming is well studied before it becomes common place
or it could become another agricultural folly.

Harry

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:00 AM, Bob Higgins 
wrote:

> One of the problems with agricultural vegetables today is that they are
> devoid of the micronutrients that the human body needs to be healthy.
> These include a lot of trace minerals (boron, calcium, vanadium, iodine,
> zinc, copper, magnesium ...) that are found in fresh soil; but for 100
> years, these micronutrients have been farmed out (and not replaced).
> Farmers only add N-P-K back to the soil because they found that doing so
> would make green plants, but that doesn't mean that the resulting plants
> are chemically nutritious for humans.  Historical farming was most
> nutritious in flood plains because the flood silt would restore the
> micronutrients to the soil.
>
> Plants cannot absorb these micronutrients as oxides or sulphates directly
> - they must be broken down by consumption in bacteria within the soil and
> chemically converted to metal chelates in the bacterial deficant before the
> plants can absorb them.
>
> So, how in a vertical farm are the core nutrients and micronutrients
> supplied to the plant in a way that the plant can absorb them?  Are they
> growing the bacteria in a vat from which they extract the chelate-rich
> water (absorb-able nutrients) for spraying on the plant roots?  Are the
> resulting plants nutritious?
>
> On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 8:36 AM, H LV  wrote:
>
>> Vertical farming is slowly becoming more common.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_tvJtUHnmU
>>
>> Harry
>>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:OT: Vertical farming

[Bob Higgins]

One of the problems with agricultural vegetables today is that they are
devoid of the micronutrients that the human body needs to be healthy.
These include a lot of trace minerals (boron, calcium, vanadium, iodine,
zinc, copper, magnesium ...) that are found in fresh soil; but for 100
years, these micronutrients have been farmed out (and not replaced).
Farmers only add N-P-K back to the soil because they found that doing so
would make green plants, but that doesn't mean that the resulting plants
are chemically nutritious for humans.  Historical farming was most
nutritious in flood plains because the flood silt would restore the
micronutrients to the soil.

Plants cannot absorb these micronutrients as oxides or sulphates directly -
they must be broken down by consumption in bacteria within the soil and
chemically converted to metal chelates in the bacterial deficant before the
plants can absorb them.

So, how in a vertical farm are the core nutrients and micronutrients
supplied to the plant in a way that the plant can absorb them?  Are they
growing the bacteria in a vat from which they extract the chelate-rich
water (absorb-able nutrients) for spraying on the plant roots?  Are the
resulting plants nutritious?

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 8:36 AM, H LV  wrote:

> Vertical farming is slowly becoming more common.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_tvJtUHnmU
>
> Harry
>