Re: [zfs-discuss] cascading metadata modifications

2007-09-06 Thread Joerg Schilling
Matthew Ahrens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joerg Schilling wrote: The best documented one is the inverted meta data tree that allows wofs to write only one new generation node for one modified file while ZFS needs to also write new nodes for all directories above the file including the

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS/WAFL lawsuit

2007-09-06 Thread Paul Kraus
More here http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasicarticleId=9034496 On 9/5/07, David Magda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, Not sure if anyone at Sun can comment on this, but I thought it might be of interest to the list: This morning, NetApp filed an IP

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS/WAFL lawsuit

2007-09-06 Thread Wade . Stuart
This is my personal opinion and all, but even knowing that Sun encourages open conversations on these mailing lists and blogs it seems to falter common sense for people from @sun.com to be commenting on this topic. It seems like something users should be aware of, but if I were working

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS/WAFL lawsuit

2007-09-06 Thread Casper . Dik
This is my personal opinion and all, but even knowing that Sun encourages open conversations on these mailing lists and blogs it seems to falter common sense for people from @sun.com to be commenting on this topic. It seems like something users should be aware of, but if I were working

Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

2007-09-06 Thread Diego Righi
Unfortunately it only comes with 4 adapters, bare metal adapters without any dampering /silencing and so on... ...anyway I wanted to make it the most silent I could, so I suspeded all the 10 disks (8 sata 320gb and a little 2,5 pata root disk) with a flexible wire, like I posted in this italian

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS/WAFL lawsuit

2007-09-06 Thread Harold Ancell
At 09:33 AM 9/6/2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is my personal opinion and all, but even knowing that Sun encourages open conversations on these mailing lists and blogs it seems to falter common sense for people from @sun.com to be commenting on this topic. It seems like something

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS/WAFL lawsuit

2007-09-06 Thread Al Hopper
On Thu, 6 Sep 2007, Harold Ancell wrote: At 09:33 AM 9/6/2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is my personal opinion and all, but even knowing that Sun encourages open conversations on these mailing lists and blogs it seems to falter common sense for people from @sun.com to be

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS/WAFL lawsuit

2007-09-06 Thread Casper . Dik
Playing with patent portfolios is the modern equivalent to playing the mutually assured destruction game with nuclear missiles. Yes we all appreciate how dangereous this game is and how high the stakes are. But ... notice that a live/armed ballistic missile has never been fired at a target.

[zfs-discuss] Nuke accidents (Re: ZFS/WAFL lawsuit)

2007-09-06 Thread Nicolas Williams
On Thu, Sep 06, 2007 at 06:20:55PM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now that you mention Nuclear weapons, am I really the only one who is amused by the uproar about a B52 with nukes flying over the US? Europe does not have the anti-nuke opinion set market cornered, ya know? Until the Minuteman

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS/WAFL lawsuit

2007-09-06 Thread Harold Ancell
At 11:06 AM 9/6/2007, Al Hopper wrote: On Thu, 6 Sep 2007, Harold Ancell wrote: At 09:33 AM 9/6/2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is my personal opinion and all, but even knowing that Sun encourages open conversations on these mailing lists and blogs it seems to falter common sense for

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS/WAFL lawsuit

2007-09-06 Thread Wade . Stuart
Playing with patent portfolios is the modern equivalent to playing the mutually assured destruction game with nuclear missiles. Yes we all appreciate how dangereous this game is and how high the stakes are. But ... notice that a live/armed ballistic missile has never been fired at a

[zfs-discuss] zfs mount snapshot

2007-09-06 Thread Poulos, Joe
Hello, I am messing around with zfs snapshots, and was wondering if it is possible to mount a zfs snapshot. I would like to use this snapshot to backup to tape. Currently, I see the data in the following path: /testjp1/.zfs/snapshot/testsnapjp This message and its

Re: [zfs-discuss] zfs mount snapshot

2007-09-06 Thread Darren J Moffat
Poulos, Joe wrote: Hello, I am messing around with zfs snapshots, and was wondering if it is possible to mount a zfs snapshot. I would like to use this snapshot to backup to tape. Currently, I see the data in the following path: /testjp1/.zfs/snapshot/testsnapjp and

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS/WAFL lawsuit

2007-09-06 Thread Casper . Dik
It really is a shot in the dark at this point, you really never know what will happen in court (take the example of the recent court decision that all data in RAM be held for discovery ?!WHAT, HEAD HURTS!?). But at the end of the day, if you waited for a sure bet on any technology or potential

Re: [zfs-discuss] zfs mount snapshot

2007-09-06 Thread Poulos, Joe
Ah, thanks! I thought it may be possible to show up as a separate mountpoint. But you're right... this is not really needed! Thanks -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Darren J Moffat Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2007 2:14 PM To: Poulos,

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS/WAFL lawsuit

2007-09-06 Thread Wade . Stuart
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 09/06/2007 01:14:56 PM: It really is a shot in the dark at this point, you really never know what will happen in court (take the example of the recent court decision that all data in RAM be held for discovery ?!WHAT, HEAD HURTS!?). But at the end of the day,

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS/WAFL lawsuit

2007-09-06 Thread johansen-osdev
It's Columbia Pictures vs. Bunnell: http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/torrentspy/columbia_v_bunnell_magistrate_order.pdf The Register syndicated a Security Focus article that summarizes the potential impact of the court decision: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/08/08/litigation_data_retention/

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS/WAFL lawsuit

2007-09-06 Thread Nicolas Williams
On Thu, Sep 06, 2007 at 01:18:27PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 09/06/2007 01:14:56 PM: It really is a shot in the dark at this point, you really never know what will happen in court (take the example of the recent court decision that all data in RAM be held

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS/WAFL lawsuit

2007-09-06 Thread Wade . Stuart
If that's the correct reading of the story then the story is very badly written. Or am I misreading the story? Hmmm, the order itself goes on and on about RAM. I think the judge should have been clearer that the issue is the specific data, as opposed to generic RAM contents.

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS/WAFL lawsuit

2007-09-06 Thread Nicolas Williams
On Thu, Sep 06, 2007 at 01:38:22PM -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If that's the correct reading of the story then the story is very badly written. Or am I misreading the story? Hmmm, the order itself goes on and on about RAM. I think the judge should have been clearer that the issue

[zfs-discuss] MS Exchange storage on ZFS?

2007-09-06 Thread Joe S
Has anyone here attempted to store their MS Exchange data store on a ZFS pool? If so, could you please tell me about your setup? A friend is looking for a NAS solution, and may be interested in a ZFS box instead of a netapp or something like that. Thanks.

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS/WAFL lawsuit

2007-09-06 Thread mike
On 9/6/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is my personal opinion and all, but even knowing that Sun encourages open conversations on these mailing lists and blogs it seems to falter common sense for people from @sun.com to be commenting on this topic. It seems like

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS/WAFL lawsuit

2007-09-06 Thread Nicolas Williams
On Thu, Sep 06, 2007 at 04:16:50PM -0400, Jonathan Edwards wrote: On Sep 6, 2007, at 14:48, Nicolas Williams wrote: Allowing for technical illiteracy in judges I think the obvious interpretation is that discoverable data should be retained and that but it exists only in RAM is not a defense,

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS/WAFL lawsuit

2007-09-06 Thread Jonathan Edwards
On Sep 6, 2007, at 14:48, Nicolas Williams wrote: Exactly the articles point -- rulings have consequences outside of the original case. The intent may have been to store logs for web server access (logical and prudent request) but the ruling states that RAM albeit working memory is no

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS/WAFL lawsuit

2007-09-06 Thread Casper . Dik
That but it existed only in RAM in my servers should not be a defense for failing to retain discoverable evidence is distinct from the issue of what constitutes discoverable evidence. But only if you were told you needed to retain the data in the first place. How can you be faulted for not

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS/WAFL lawsuit

2007-09-06 Thread Nicolas Williams
On Thu, Sep 06, 2007 at 10:45:01PM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That but it existed only in RAM in my servers should not be a defense for failing to retain discoverable evidence is distinct from the issue of what constitutes discoverable evidence. But only if you were told you needed to

Re: [zfs-discuss] cascading metadata modifications

2007-09-06 Thread Matthew Ahrens
Joerg Schilling wrote: Matthew Ahrens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Joerg Schilling wrote: The best documented one is the inverted meta data tree that allows wofs to write only one new generation node for one modified file while ZFS needs to also write new nodes for all directories above the

Re: [zfs-discuss] Consequences of adding a root vdev later?

2007-09-06 Thread Richard Elling
Bill Sommerfeld wrote: On Wed, 2007-09-05 at 14:26 -0700, Richard Elling wrote: AFAIK, nobody has characterized resilvering, though this is about the 4th time this week someone has brought the topic up. Has anyone done work here that we don't know about? If so, please speak up :-)

Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

2007-09-06 Thread Will Murnane
On 9/6/07, Diego Righi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...anyway I wanted to make it the most silent I could, so I suspeded all the 10 disks Warning: unfounded speculation ahead. I've heard that this can cause performance issues and undue wear on the drive. The reasoning is that since the arm

Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS/WAFL lawsuit

2007-09-06 Thread Sean Sprague
Casper, Do you have a reference for all data in RAM most be held. I guess we need to build COW RAM as well. Is that one of those genetic hybrids? Regards... Sean. BTW: I remember the days when only RAS and CAS kept your data in memory intact ;-)

Re: [zfs-discuss] Zfs with storedge 6130

2007-09-06 Thread Andy Lubel
On 9/4/07 4:34 PM, Richard Elling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Andy, my comments below... note that I didn't see zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org in the CC for the original... Andy Lubel wrote: Hi All, I have been asked to implement a zfs based solution using storedge 6130 and im chasing my

Re: [zfs-discuss] Serious ZFS problems

2007-09-06 Thread Neil Perrin
Tim Spriggs wrote: Hello, I think I have gained sufficient fool status for testing the fool-proof-ness of zfs. I have a cluster of T1000 servers running Solaris 10 and two x4100's running an OpenSolaris dist (Nexenta) which is at b68. Each T1000 hosts several zones each of which

Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

2007-09-06 Thread Dave Johnson
Agreed ! However, you may be able to lower the sound ever so slightly more by staggering the drives so that every other one is upside down, spinning the opposite direction and thus minimizing accumulative rotational vibration. I had to make a makeshift temporary server when our NAS gateway

Re: [zfs-discuss] Serious ZFS problems

2007-09-06 Thread Tim Spriggs
Neil Perrin wrote: Tim Spriggs wrote: Hello, I think I have gained sufficient fool status for testing the fool-proof-ness of zfs. I have a cluster of T1000 servers running Solaris 10 and two x4100's running an OpenSolaris dist (Nexenta) which is at b68. Each T1000 hosts several

Re: [zfs-discuss] MS Exchange storage on ZFS?

2007-09-06 Thread Andy Lubel
On 9/6/07 2:51 PM, Joe S [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Has anyone here attempted to store their MS Exchange data store on a ZFS pool? If so, could you please tell me about your setup? A friend is looking for a NAS solution, and may be interested in a ZFS box instead of a netapp or something like

Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

2007-09-06 Thread David Hopwood
Will Murnane wrote: On 9/6/07, Diego Righi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...anyway I wanted to make it the most silent I could, so I suspeded all the 10 disks Warning: unfounded speculation ahead. I've heard that this can cause performance issues and undue wear on the drive. The reasoning is

Re: [zfs-discuss] New zfs pr0n server :)))

2007-09-06 Thread MC
Unfortunately it only comes with 4 adapters, bare metal adapters without any dampering /silencing and so on... ...anyway I wanted to make it the most silent I could, so I suspeded all the 10 disks (8 sata 320gb and a little 2,5 pata root disk) with a flexible wire, like I posted in this